I definitely agree that silver would be a better metal for Nùmenor and that a star would be a better symbol. It would make for a good contrast if the corrupt Ar-Pharazon and his followers decided to make it a golden sun, reflecting their hubris how they now see themselves as the centre of the world. I find unlikely that this idea would have gone through the heads of the showmakers though...
Stars in the costume design would make so much sense, especially when the costumes of Gondor show the white tree and stars around it. Could have been a nice way of showing that connection of Númenóreans to the people of Gondor thousands of years later (not to mention water is associated with the Moon, night and stars, NOT the sun,. So why the scales/sun imagery? poorly thought out). A lost opportunity for sure.
I like this so much too. Gold can be associated with greed as well, which makes me think of dwarves or dragons. It just makes so much sense. Kind of ties in to the conflicts between elves and dwarves as well. I think if you showed good elves associating more with silver it also kind of shows that the good guys aren’t greedy. And that could even tie in to what they named the show-Rings of Power. Power could be associated with greed. Which again that offers a nice contrast. The good guys not being associated with the rings-making the rings gold, whereas the bad guys would be associated with the rings and therefore wearing gold.
From a lore point of view a star is so much more thematically appropriate, almost to the point that it’s ridiculous that it isn’t the symbol. Firstly, Earendil, ancestor of the royal house has a star dedicated to him. Also, Numenor is shaped like a star. Finally, Numenoreans are a seafaring nation and traditionally stars are used for guidance out on the seas.
Yeah was thinking of this. Having her start off silver and blue would set her off from Pharazon. And you could even have her wearing more gold and red to match Pharazon as he exerts more of his will over her and forces her to marry him.
It's worth noting though, because all these elements are what add up and paint the picture of what went wrong--not nearly enough thought or care was put into this adaption.
The costumes in the new DnD film look horrible too IMO, but these are possibly worse and with the budget behind them. I was watching a couple of WB's re-ported making of LotR, almost brings me to tears by comparison.
@@Running-withscissors with DnD you have more freedom in costumes then in Tolkien world that have very specific artworks made by best arists like Alan Lee and others. Dnd is made mostly by players imagination and you find many of styles from official arts books to quite modern looking drawings. Pinterest is great source to look at.
Did you see Daemon helmet? Come on now, that's not a good helmet for jousting. So, let's not lie... It looks like a cheap copy of the armor used for the vampires in the Underworld movies.
Almost Every head piece (not all) I’ve seen in the trailers and pics look gaudy and outrageous too me. Miriel, Gil-Galad, the elves getting honored at the ceremony led by Gil Galad, all the Harfoot pieces.
Totally agree. Also why did the costume designers associated elven head pieces with roman aesthetics? Those laurel headpieces the elves wear are very roman looking, and I don't really like them. I think Numenorians wearing them would be a better choice.
@@McDinglefart_69 haha true. Maybe there'll be a plot where the characters discover that there's this amazingly astonishing EPIC place called Amazon, which is basically perfection, and there's a bald fairy of incredibleness there named Jeff Bezos who gives them free clothing from the future.
My thing with this whole design decision is that Tar-Miriel in the books is described as being "fairer than silver, ivory, or pearl", which should've been the primary colors and materials into her costuming, especially since in the books she was perhaps the last "true" Numenorean monarch who wanted to restore the Kingdom's relationship with the Valar and the Elves. Like it's literally in the text. Silver and pearl also specifically allude the Telerin/Falmari Elves that Numenor had a close friendship with until things got complicated with Sauron. It really would've made Tar-Miriel stand out as this more elegant, "purer" alternative to Ar-Phazon, who is described as "The Golden".
The other thing is that the crown isn't the symbol of Kings and Queens but the Sceptre of Númenor serves as the representation of their power. This is something that carries on into the Realms-in-Exile with the Sceptre of Annúminas
I feel like what they were aiming for with the nets and scales was a maritime connection. But it just feels more like: "numenor is a seafareing country. Fish live in the sea, lets make her look like a fish. Ouh corals are also in the water lets add them too, net Stuff as well. See guys we know Character Design."
Yeah! Tolkien would never draw the Numenoreans' armor as a weirdass fish design...... Wait, he literally did. tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:J.R.R._Tolkien_-_N%C3%BAmen%C3%B3rean_helmet.jpg
I really love all of your re-imagined costumes for the ROP characters so far. You're very knowledgeable about both Tolkien and fashion history and you articulate your thought process very well! I, too love both Tolkien and fashion history. I've subscribed!
I'd also argue for more sea-motifs in their armour: based on a drawing by Tolkien himself of a Numenorean helmet, the sea and marine life featured heavily in it. The Sun feels very out of place, and for the greatest race of Men (in both body and nobility) at the apex of their power, to wear what looks like such cheap clothing... not good.
Yes. Gondorian armor, reliefs and clothes feature seagull wings heavily. You can see it on their iconic helmets, on the crown of Elendil and Aragorn. The guards of the fountain have seagul feathers attached to their helmet. Given that Gondorians in the original LOTR trilogy are essentially larpers trying to imitate and preserve the glory of Numenor it only makes sense some of these motifs would be inheritance from Numenor. But nah. The show Numenorians are completely different people.
Amazing. Exactly the way I would of imagined it myself. Emphasis on silver, marine, classical civilization (not ancient): artisan fare. I am almost thinking of a combination of Ptolemaic/Seleucid cultures and Eastern Roman empire of antiquity. Just more silver impressions and reliefs with cosmic trappings. You should advise them post haste.
Stumbled on your channel and really like these analyses! Her headpiece reminds me of the so-called Helen of Troy headpiece that the original excavator of "Troy" dug up and had his wife parade all around (too lazy to look up his name!). I don't understand the obsession with gold (SILVER--especially for the elves. Gold is tainted by Morgoth). Also their obsession with sticking stupid things on head pieces--wilted apple leaves and seeds for the hobbits; bunny ears on Gil-Galad; and mini deer horns on Miriel?? There is no logic and creativity behind this stuff.
Heinrich Schliemann and his wife Sophia are the names you're looking for. Personally I believe they're taking classical and eastern Roman fashion then making it real ugly and real cheap-looking (when done properly, the gold on the clothing would look really good, Greek Orthodox priests during certain liturgies wear gold-detailed clothing and it looks so much better than whatever is going on here). I agree however that the weird obsession with gold doesn't much fit the Númenorian culture, furthermore Tolkien didn't focus on only gold either: while Fingon braided his hair with gold, Maedhros wore a coppery circlet on his coppery tresses, Telperion is silver while Lauren was golden with Turgon imitating their appearance for his own two trees in Gondolin, Finarfin and his kids have golden hair, Elwë has silver hair and crown, etc. The Númenorians whose culture was highly influenced by the Elven one, would not shun silver and copper. Well this comment was much longer than I expected.
@@georged.5595 I don't really like the Numenorian costume designs in the Rings of Power so far. But I kind of understand why they chose gold instead of silver. The second age Numenor is a very corrupt, arrogant, and decadent civilization (right before it sink) They are also in their golden age, the height of their civilization, and it kind of makes sense that they want to flaunt their wealth, considering how arrogant they were (they thought they could defy Eru, and the Valar). Also they were jealous of the elves, esp the Noldor. (According to Tolkien, Noldor preferred gold over silver, so maybe it could influence their fashion?) I kind of imagine Numenorian fashion similar to Bizantine one, right before it was invaded, and destroyed by the Ottoman.
The head dress of Gilgalad is reminiscent of the laurel leave crowns of the Greeks.. they symbolize, not kingship, but victory. I think that there is a statue of Zeus wearing one? In one scene in the trailer he is crowning Galadriel with a golden Laurel leaf crown.
It still baffles me how corporations with practically unlimited $ supply do worse than individuals who do it in free time, for the fun of it. Like, you do costumes (this is the first time I came to your channel and saw your content), and it looks really good. In some other franchises, there are similar problems. In WH40K, one guy made an animated short film (Astartes) which is better than anything GW made, ever. In game development, we have very small teams, sometimes even a single person, making better games than what teams of hundreds of people do for big publishers. It just shows that, no matter how much money you have, it is the passion that drives creativity and quality - not the size of your bank account. People then tend to say "Yeah, but it is easier with a bigger budget" - well, from what I see, especially in recent decade or so, the more money a project has, the worse it gets. There are some exemptions to the rule, but quite rare. My faith is with indie developers, designers and people who do it out of the passion for something, rather than money. Again, good job on the costume design, I am liking it. Maybe a bit too much pearls for my taste, but royalty would not be royalty if they didn't over-emphasize their wealth in some way :)
I watched all three videos about costumes for Disa, Galadriel and Tar Miriel. I was blown away by the author's professionalism. It was a joy to sit and watch how Lana unravels the whole enigma of costumes and characters. The element that made me absolutely confident in Lana's talent is the costume for Tar Miriel. First, I thought the piece on her neck looks like a chain, which does not add to her noble status. But then I remembered her story. I was also confident that Lara would not put an element in the costume that does not serve a purpose. Which meant that Tar Meriel felt her circumstances, the pressure from the cousin. And intuitively or intentionally decorated herself with that neck-piece.
It's been commented on before, but yes, the first thing that came at me is the Galadriel character wearing iron gauntlets in a winter scene. Frostbite! yes! Frostbite! And you have metal stars pinned on your shoulders.
Wow, this was a interesting take of the Rings of power. I like the background analysis of the clothing and your opinion about the outfits, especially about the star, silver and the armour. Verry interesting work and good video, thanks!
One thing I have loved learning from videos about Tolkien’s works is how some elves valued silver over gold and were connected to the stars. And that there was maybe a connection between good people more closely associating with silver and wood/earth tones versus gold. Not 100%, but I can see how that makes some sense. And I actually really like that because it’s unusual. In most peoples minds I think they’d automatically think of the very sophisticated elves only using what we see as the best in our society and world. It’s cool that Tolkien was able to think of a society within his world that would value something we don’t value very much as the best-and to make them a high class society (and good) too essentially. Plus gold definitely tends to be associated with wealth and then greed sometimes. Which makes me think of dwarves or dragons. So it makes sense to have good people with great taste preferring silver which is more practical but still beautiful.
2:10 There's a fold in her armpit. How can you sell a scaled armour when it's clearly a shirt with scales printed on? This reminds me of an amateur play that uses gray dyed wool to simulate chainmail.
Fell upon your video randomly and as an old sailor, who loves LOTR from the early dawn of the tale's popularity, I must say you captured the essence of my imagination of Númenor and the splendor of its people and culture in your fashions. I had never really thought of the look just had a concept but you have pulled it from my stream of consciousness. Thanks, while not my typical interests your video was a joy to watch and listen to :)
The outfit at around 4:34 is the kind of outfit I would expect of the dwarves. If "Disa" wore something like that (and, ya know, had at least a little a beard!) her character would fit into her culture and world so much better.
I think I would have gone for a deeper blue, but otherwise, I like your redesign. The pastel colors seem more elven to me, partially because of the way they are often dressed in the LOTR movies.
the helmet seems very 1700s Japanese samurai general inspired. There was a time where the most gaudy helmet was seen as a status symbol and there were giant octopus and conch helmets as well as others that were even less practical.
I have issues with the giant gape in Miriel's armor at the shoulder-arm pit- chest area (timestamp 2:00). And what should be under armor appears to be fabric.
Honestly, if we have Ar-Pharazon, then we’re nearing the fall, he was the last King of Númenor and by this time, even without Sauron the Númenoreans had become corrupt, decadent and hedonistic. Sauron just took the ball and ran with it. They should look utterly opulent and rich, with excessive use of silks and royal blues, with silver and golden embroidery, they should look theatrical and attention grabbing. And here’s the best thing, you can still have the more humble yet still regal dress, because she can then be of The Faithful, the people who stuck true to the Valar and the Elves, while The Kings Men, are the debauched and overtly opulent ones, because they actively sought to go against the Valar and the Elves.
A blue/white/silver theme would work better if the actress had the skin tone and coloring of the book Tar-Míriel: "And last of all the mounting wave... took to its bosom Tar-Míriel the Queen, fairer than silver or ivory or pearls." The designers seem to have their mind set on some Byzanthium-on-the-cheap style; some of the costumes worn by the extras look more like upholstery than something one would want to wear.
I keep noticing how almost every aspect of RoP is one dimensional. It all feels like someone made a first draft of everything and they went with it, spending no time at all on pushing designs or exploring better, clearer alternatives to the initial thoughts or ideas. This level of entertainment gives me the impression that almost everyone involved was early level in their crafts with no guidance from more experienced people. The main exception to this issue is the music by Bear McCreary. The music is beautiful but lacks any meaning because the story itself is empty. : (
They've made Miriel garish and offensive. She required no embellishment and it's a crime that her wardrobe overpowers her. She should have been a more feminine figure, not exotic and bold. This is not Tolkien's Miriel. That said, you are exactly correct about the colors and metals and gemstone choices. Their kingdom arose from the sea, it is guided by the stars ( not the sun!) The fish scales in slightly more than moderation would still be great but fish are delicate and agile creatures for the most part so at least give light and fragility to the gowns and strength ( as fish scales are very protective) to the armour. Any jewels mined locally work but blue stone, pale as water or green as the ocean. Silver OF COURSE! Ar-Pharazon was known for his gold but he's the LAST king, not the first 12-15, however many there were. Where is the influence of those stars and water, maybe Ulmo carvings or wave forms dominating not only dress but other .
Thanks! You seem to have a very fine taste in fashion (something I myself am painfully lacking unfortunately) I was wondering if you could also do a review of male dresses in the show?
Thank you for your comment. I'm actually making a couple more general video on some of the other costumes in the show. I'm not as confident on the topic of male fashion, but i do my best to cover some of the more general aspects of the RoP designs and the makings of good costumes.
Omg how do u basically capture exactly how I imagine Muriel to look with your recommendations. I totally love the pieces you suggested and its sooo much better than amazon's. Id love to see your version of her.
Your design is perfect! Just the right hint of elvish! I've always pictured Tar-Miriel in shades of blue. Turquoise and sea-green would also make sense, given the way Numenoreans honoured Ulmo, Osse and Uinen. Possibly wave, shell and sea foam elements in the embroidery and jewellery? Paua shell for jewellery would work as well.
It could be that the designers and creators googled Numenór, one link mentioned "Ar-Pharazon the Golden" and they said "Yeah, let's cover that shit in gold like it's Smaugs wet dream." At least that is, what i assume, the amount of research they put into everything about Tolkiens world. Also, besides the scale "shirt" looking generally awful and more like a soft leather shirt with scale print.....is that supposed to be a scale chest plate with a scale mail shirt underneath? That doesn't make any sense to me. I hope (and think) some of the HEMA and armour/weapon channels will look into this. All the costume and weapon designs look purely optical and if they appear useful in a fight, it's probably by incident and not by intention.
Thank you!!! Blue shades flowing, yes. If they want to add jewelries, golden or silver accesories, maybe they can add them on the shoulders (but without the net like accesory), on the neckline or the belt. I think for this actress, just adding another rigid layer of fabric with abroidery will do well also. They don't need to add these chain mails on her torso. If she wants to wear an armour, it can just be plain-looking metal with very very few engraving, that's already enough.
Almost every costume in RoP look like you ordered it from Amazon... As RoP is just a business strategy to Amazon, they just gave the cast whatever they plan to sell online. Cheaper that way. Kid ordering RoP stuff (Amazon boxes) was in the first RoP teaser I saw, so the whole point is to sell second grade China rags.
It just shows how much work and talent goes into the best costume designs… which are really the ones we don’t even really notice -when engrossed in the film.
N.B. I am wondering if these lines are why they have the fish scale armor.. There hammer on the anvil smote, There chisel clove, and graver wrote; There forged was blade, and bound was hilt; The delver mined, the mason built. There beryl, pearl, and opal pale, And metal wrought like fishes' mail, Buckler and corslet, axe and sword, And shining spears were laid in hoard.
Michele Clapton, the costume designer for GOT, has said that in the early seasons all the background ladies would wear Cersei's style but as Margaery gained more power the court ladies would switch to her style, a subtle way of showing the shifts in influence. So maybe ROP could have started with the Númenóreans wearing silver and stars but over the course of the series but as Ar-Pharazôn the Golden gained more power the people would switch to gold and sun motifs.
that's a great suggestion! although i honestly have no clue how the show is going to handle the whole Numenor storyline. We could go back to the book, back to the book - but I don't think that would tell us much lol
I absolutely love your drawn dress. Its exactly how i pictured what Tar-Miriel would wear. And I definitely agree with the opinions on how the show made their costumes. Imagine you habe 1 billion dolars and you spend it on that.😂 I really liked the examples from the internet (the jewelry and headpieces where absolutely beautiful) and what i imagine a queen of Numenor should have. You really have talent and you would be an amazing costume designer, with how you notice the details.
Out of all the details, I really don't mind the coral halo in Miriel's crown - it's a formal occasion in the throne room, she needs to be visible and imposing even to those who stand far away, so adding a heavier element to the crown is reasonable - and the lighter option with the dangly bits she wears as a sign of her position but for less official moments. Could it be done better? Probably, sure (the dangly bits remind me of the portraits of the Byzantine empress Theodora, but hers seem to be pearly, which would be a great choice here). But I think the reasoning behind it is sound.
2:45 Also the Numenoreans Kings didn't wear crowns because In Numenor the symbol of kingship was a scepter made of mithril, which was passed from father to son; only in the kingdom of Gondor will the Crown assume the royal functions...
One of the things that put me off from watching it is the costumes I'm sorry but when I think jjr Tolkien I think of two people ted nasmith and Peter Jackson. As for numenor I always thought silver, black and white or a deep blue and burgundy.
I just figured out that the scales on the armour and dresses represent fish scales, which makes sense for a seafaring nation. Blue is definitely the right color for a seafaring country. The scale armour and flashy headdress I think are purely ceremonial and aren't meant to be practical.
Thanks for your comment! Personally, i have more of an issue with the design, not so much the idea of fish scales as a symbol beig incorporated into the outfit.
Just thought I'd point out that there is more mention of gold than silver in relation to Numenor in The Silmarillion: Akallabeth. They "clad themselves silver and gold" Their King and Queens of old were "lying on beds of gold" Ar Pharazons ship sails were "red and gold" I think the argument for silver/pearls/ivory would be a creative choice to show the comparison with Ar Pharazon in terms of alliance/greed/pride and to at least acknowledge the one description we have of her which is regarding her being fairer than those things.
Thank you for bringing my attention to costume design in the original LOTR trilogy. Like most people out there I really don't pay that much attention to details like costume design, cinematography and the like. Sort of like watching a classic movie with commentary which makes me appreciate a film even more.
I think you are partly right about the color choice, the fathful should wear ”traditional” numenorean with silver & stars while the kings men should wear gold, preferably with the colors red and black
You are correct about the stars. Sailors use stars to navigate their ships. Advanced practical astronomy would be absolutely necessary for a sea going kingdom. Seven Stars, Seven stones and One white tree. Also, I have a difficult time imagining Tolkien's characters wearing anything that hints at Southern Italy or Greece. Maybe if you were going to have the Haladrim queen come for a visit? Love your ideas for her gowns and jewelry. I don't know what it is with all the beaten gold head dresses and necklaces, I suppose it is cheaper to make?
Just wanted to point out that the sun as emblem of Numenor is something tolkien specified. The city we see in the first second of the video is probably "Andúnië" (The place of the sun in quenya, old capital of the kingdom of Numenor)
I agree with pretty much everything youve said so far about the costumes! Its funny, I was so excited to see the costumes in this and when things started coming out, I felt really disappointed, like I was waiting for more. And thats exactly what I thought "these feel costume-y. "They look like people trying to make costumes to go to comic con...except people who go to comic con generally do a better job then this even...but you get my point I hope. Maybe a better example would be halloween costumes? I love your designs so much! Youre very talented!
Numenor had no official Crown. They passed down a scepter as token of rule. Miriel appears to have multiple options, so they may simply be fashion statements, but that second one you focused on appears to have been intended to resemble the dead branches of the White Tree. As you say, it makes no sense that it should be made of gold, not because Numenor was associated with stars (by that point, Numenor was so wealthy from the tribute they levied on their colonies in Middle Earth that gold would be a plentiful and valued jewel setting) but because it's silly to make the likeness of a dead *white* tree out of a *golden* colored metal. Also because the White Tree was not yet dead. It was still a healthy seedling of the greater White Tree, which *also* did not die until Miriel's husband brought about about the Foundering that drowned it along with the entire island. I also agree that the branches look silly on a headdress, but we're talking about costumers who decided to make cabbage leaves and straw fashion forward headgear. Possibly in honor of Han-buri-han, whose people they otherwise don't dare portray.
For Miriel, I would LOVE to see Turkish style shapes but with VERY light fabric. Lots of chiffons and lace that you can barely tell is there. I love your idea of pearls and the color palette.
The sun was the symbol of men because the Elves awoke under the Moon and the Men awoke in the age of the sun. The men of Numenor had grown to resent the Elves by the reign of Pharazôn. Pharazôn means Golden in Sindar, his given name before taking that on that title was Tar-Calion, "Son of Light".
@Laurelin70 in the books there had already been a few generations of kings who resented the elves and the Valar. I'm not defending the shows lack of sticking to the books, but the sun symbolism still makes sense. We don't even see the symbolism of the stars and the white tree until after Numenor fell. So the sun symbol is the next most logical thing
I quite like the redesign. I saw some people saying the scales symbolized the ocean, but as another person said, they're not bloody fishermen! You suggested having shells and pearls, which are a much subtler and more elegant way of symbolizing the ocean. I think with a lot of these costumes they were trying to be smart and have people say "Wow! There's fish scales, which symbolize the ocean, and Numeneor is in the ocean! These costumes are so amazing" but really it's just weird and out of place. I don't think a bit of gold is wrong for Numeneor, but too much is too much. Any gold dress she would wear could have gold as the secondary color, not as the main one. I really love the dress you drew, it looks similar to the one I pictured her to wear when I read about her character.
I'd wished they had incorporated more of the egyptian Hedjet crown and Tolkien's fishcrest helmet designs. I do not have any trouble with the general use of fishscale-armour... High-elves used it.It was inspired by Ulmo.
I think you're right about pretty much everything and I have a real question about all the scales, why so many scales on every costume? Is it because they live on an island and therefore are looking like fish? I wonder if it's this or to give a 'fighter' aspect to every other outfit... that would be dumb
I saw a ton of her promotional material and I had no idea she was supposed to be Tar Miriel, not even numerorean. The whole aesthetic looks so cheap that the Gondor of the movies looks more regal and ethereal than Númenor, not the other way around like it was supposed to be.
Do you review subscribers drawings of their own characters? I draw a lot and I have my own sci fi universe and some what fantasy series. It’d be cool if you could review the costume design and give advice on what the design of the clothes should be for their specific purposes
That's fantastic, how cool! I haven't thought of doing that, but it sounds like a fun idea for the future. I'll seriously think about doing something like that, thanks for sharing!
@@LanaMarie aight bet. I mostly draw armor cause I don’t really know how to draw leather clothing 😂 but I’m practicing on it. And I don’t really know how to design the clothes for the character’s purpose like how you describe in your videos
No Way! At 2:07 did they really just screen print some scale patterns on some fabric and call it a day? Ah yes the same attention to detail afforded to bargain bin Halloween costumes hahaha BTW, I really like the your redesign series so far, please keep up the great work!
Scale armour is much simpler to manufacture, albeit work-intensive, than plate would be : you need to produce a lot of small scales instead of much larger, finely-designed plates. While somewhat flexible, it doesn't offer the same level of protection, as any junction between scales is a potential point of failure. The fact that it wasn't used as widely as chainmail indicates that it possibly wasn't even as good as high-quality mail would be. There is no reason why the highest-ranking nobles of the most advanced human kingdom ever, would NOT use some type of plate armour in battle which was standard equipment for Gondor (who had declined a lot compared to Numenor). For ceremonial uses fine, but certainly not in battle.
Tbh Im not at first look liking her fish scale or the soldiers I mean numenor was supposed to be really the greatest kingdom of all middle earth but I'll get used to it I for one still cannot wait for it. And the date being changed its coming one day earlier sept 1st instead of sept 2nd cos when I heard it had a date change I thought hu oh it's being put back but nice one to bring it forward. Edit- your choices for her was excellent they should get on the phone and get you in for season 2.
Ya, part of the reason the LOTR movies worked was that the world looked right: Elegant costumes and beautiful locations and sets. This looks like a low budget 90s drama.
Yea, silver and black. With some sea bird wings, like aragorn's crown or the tower guard helmets. They are gondorian colors but gondor was a numenorian kingdom anyway.
One option I would have liked would be making her dress (or cape) midnight black/blue with silvery patterns and small white gems on it, making the fabric look like the night sky itself, constellations and all. With moderate CGI, this effect could have been emphasised so that the Queen of Numenor looks appropriately awe-inspiring. That's my main problem with the character designs in RoP: There are so many powerful characters involved, yet none of them actually inspire awe and reverence. Sauron's design is probably one of the worst offenders here.
obviously, they should have hired you to make their costumes. i'm being serious, and i hope i didn't sound snarky. all the examples you selected would look amazing and i would love to see your final drawing as one of her costumes.
It is rather sad, because Tar Miriel was described by Tolkien to be the most beautiful mortal woman in history of mankind. We are talking Helen of Troy stuff here. I was expecting them to seek most beautiful young actress for this role. Which this Miriel really is not... She was also famously described bh Tolkien to be: "fairer than silver, pearls or ivory." At least give her then silver/ivory/pearl design elements instead gold if you do not cast her correctly. She doesn't even look to be related to her so called cousin. (Who also canonically was handsome golden haired man that was unable to grow beard, as royal house of Numenor was). Less said about her casting choice, the better.
Numenor historically had three ruling queens. Tar-Miriel was supposed to be the fourth, but her cousins Ar-Phazon was corrupted by Sauron and forcibly took the throne himself.
I am a huge fan of this, and I love the redesign you have done. (very accurate and beautiful) Id be pretty bias in asking to do Celebrimbor, as I wasn't a big fan of what they did with him in the Shadow of war games, and the shows adaptation makes my skin crawl.
What's wrong with the corals? They look great. And the golden sun rays on the helmet are perfectly plausible if you think about the crests upon the greek and roman helmets.
Your final design for Tar Miriel costume = almost there. Love the blue shades! The, erm.. Numenorean version of body chain starting from her neck... It would be still too modern for Tolkien LOTR standard, I think. I thought she looked like a queen in glimmering bondage for a BDSM session. Minus the choker necklace as a start, maybe start as diamond-studded shoulder pads; then either crossover strands of varying lengths of body chain to her waist...or let it fall down her arms to give an illusion of lightweight bat-wings sleeve or glittering waterfall on her arms = it may give her a better look?
I think her “bangles” are acting as more of a feminine vambrace, similar to Wonder Woman’s. Betcha that’s where they got the idea from. Not of her wearing them, just them being that small, instead of going all the way up there forearm. So they’re a functional jewelry sorta.
Fish scale armour was used in history it was pretty popular among the Persian and Parthian heavy cavalry and adopted in the Late Roman army. but cuirasses were never made from fishscales or were worn together with fishscale body armour. If some armour was combines with a harness is was probably the byrny, a tunic made of tighlly knitted metal rings. this not only looks dirt cheap it looks wrong on all accounts.
I definitely agree that silver would be a better metal for Nùmenor and that a star would be a better symbol. It would make for a good contrast if the corrupt Ar-Pharazon and his followers decided to make it a golden sun, reflecting their hubris how they now see themselves as the centre of the world. I find unlikely that this idea would have gone through the heads of the showmakers though...
Stars in the costume design would make so much sense, especially when the costumes of Gondor show the white tree and stars around it. Could have been a nice way of showing that connection of Númenóreans to the people of Gondor thousands of years later (not to mention water is associated with the Moon, night and stars, NOT the sun,. So why the scales/sun imagery? poorly thought out).
A lost opportunity for sure.
I like this so much too. Gold can be associated with greed as well, which makes me think of dwarves or dragons. It just makes so much sense. Kind of ties in to the conflicts between elves and dwarves as well.
I think if you showed good elves associating more with silver it also kind of shows that the good guys aren’t greedy.
And that could even tie in to what they named the show-Rings of Power. Power could be associated with greed. Which again that offers a nice contrast. The good guys not being associated with the rings-making the rings gold, whereas the bad guys would be associated with the rings and therefore wearing gold.
From a lore point of view a star is so much more thematically appropriate, almost to the point that it’s ridiculous that it isn’t the symbol. Firstly, Earendil, ancestor of the royal house has a star dedicated to him. Also, Numenor is shaped like a star. Finally, Numenoreans are a seafaring nation and traditionally stars are used for guidance out on the seas.
Yeah was thinking of this. Having her start off silver and blue would set her off from Pharazon. And you could even have her wearing more gold and red to match Pharazon as he exerts more of his will over her and forces her to marry him.
Numenore was one of the few places in Arda where you could mine Mithril; a white metal would have been very appropriate
Fixing the costumes is like rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship.
Bahahahahahaha!!!!! 😂😂😂😂
agreed.. but these are some extremely bad looking chairs. i mean really awful chairs
Exactly.
great comment
It's worth noting though, because all these elements are what add up and paint the picture of what went wrong--not nearly enough thought or care was put into this adaption.
In a House of dragons, the costumes are much more well made and fit the atmosphere of the story. And they don't look like crappy store clothes
The costumes in the new DnD film look horrible too IMO, but these are possibly worse and with the budget behind them. I was watching a couple of WB's re-ported making of LotR, almost brings me to tears by comparison.
You did not see one episode of RoP but yeah, you can feel the atmosphere aleady...
What atmosphere would that be?
@@Running-withscissors with DnD you have more freedom in costumes then in Tolkien world that have very specific artworks made by best arists like Alan Lee and others. Dnd is made mostly by players imagination and you find many of styles from official arts books to quite modern looking drawings. Pinterest is great source to look at.
Did you see Daemon helmet? Come on now, that's not a good helmet for jousting. So, let's not lie... It looks like a cheap copy of the armor used for the vampires in the Underworld movies.
Almost Every head piece (not all) I’ve seen in the trailers and pics look gaudy and outrageous too me. Miriel, Gil-Galad, the elves getting honored at the ceremony led by Gil Galad, all the Harfoot pieces.
Totally agree. Also why did the costume designers associated elven head pieces with roman aesthetics? Those laurel headpieces the elves wear are very roman looking, and I don't really like them. I think Numenorians wearing them would be a better choice.
Don't forget the Orcs that seem to wear pumpkins on their heads.
Yes. Galadriel wore a crown of golden flowers in Fellowship iirc, which I understood to be real flowers. That is so very different from metal laurels
Spot on.
One of the bad things about this show is how modern and tacky most costumes and designs look.
Your recommedations are excellent.
Costumes are fine if Amazon exist in LOTR universe and numenorins orders all costomus from it.
@@McDinglefart_69 haha true. Maybe there'll be a plot where the characters discover that there's this amazingly astonishing EPIC place called Amazon, which is basically perfection, and there's a bald fairy of incredibleness there named Jeff Bezos who gives them free clothing from the future.
One of the many*
My thing with this whole design decision is that Tar-Miriel in the books is described as being "fairer than silver, ivory, or pearl", which should've been the primary colors and materials into her costuming, especially since in the books she was perhaps the last "true" Numenorean monarch who wanted to restore the Kingdom's relationship with the Valar and the Elves. Like it's literally in the text. Silver and pearl also specifically allude the Telerin/Falmari Elves that Numenor had a close friendship with until things got complicated with Sauron. It really would've made Tar-Miriel stand out as this more elegant, "purer" alternative to Ar-Phazon, who is described as "The Golden".
The other thing is that the crown isn't the symbol of Kings and Queens but the Sceptre of Númenor serves as the representation of their power. This is something that carries on into the Realms-in-Exile with the Sceptre of Annúminas
Dude, stop. You talking about LOTR lore. We're making something new here.
@@McDinglefart_69 right… I guess I forgot that 😒
I feel like what they were aiming for with the nets and scales was a maritime connection. But it just feels more like: "numenor is a seafareing country. Fish live in the sea, lets make her look like a fish. Ouh corals are also in the water lets add them too, net Stuff as well. See guys we know Character Design."
Yeah! Tolkien would never draw the Numenoreans' armor as a weirdass fish design...... Wait, he literally did.
tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:J.R.R._Tolkien_-_N%C3%BAmen%C3%B3rean_helmet.jpg
I really love all of your re-imagined costumes for the ROP characters so far. You're very knowledgeable about both Tolkien and fashion history and you articulate your thought process very well! I, too love both Tolkien and fashion history. I've subscribed!
I'd also argue for more sea-motifs in their armour: based on a drawing by Tolkien himself of a Numenorean helmet, the sea and marine life featured heavily in it. The Sun feels very out of place, and for the greatest race of Men (in both body and nobility) at the apex of their power, to wear what looks like such cheap clothing... not good.
Yes. Gondorian armor, reliefs and clothes feature seagull wings heavily. You can see it on their iconic helmets, on the crown of Elendil and Aragorn. The guards of the fountain have seagul feathers attached to their helmet. Given that Gondorians in the original LOTR trilogy are essentially larpers trying to imitate and preserve the glory of Numenor it only makes sense some of these motifs would be inheritance from Numenor. But nah. The show Numenorians are completely different people.
Amazing. Exactly the way I would of imagined it myself. Emphasis on silver, marine, classical civilization (not ancient): artisan fare. I am almost thinking of a combination of Ptolemaic/Seleucid cultures and Eastern Roman empire of antiquity. Just more silver impressions and reliefs with cosmic trappings. You should advise them post haste.
Stumbled on your channel and really like these analyses! Her headpiece reminds me of the so-called Helen of Troy headpiece that the original excavator of "Troy" dug up and had his wife parade all around (too lazy to look up his name!). I don't understand the obsession with gold (SILVER--especially for the elves. Gold is tainted by Morgoth). Also their obsession with sticking stupid things on head pieces--wilted apple leaves and seeds for the hobbits; bunny ears on Gil-Galad; and mini deer horns on Miriel?? There is no logic and creativity behind this stuff.
Heinrich Schliemann and his wife Sophia are the names you're looking for.
Personally I believe they're taking classical and eastern Roman fashion then making it real ugly and real cheap-looking (when done properly, the gold on the clothing would look really good, Greek Orthodox priests during certain liturgies wear gold-detailed clothing and it looks so much better than whatever is going on here).
I agree however that the weird obsession with gold doesn't much fit the Númenorian culture, furthermore Tolkien didn't focus on only gold either: while Fingon braided his hair with gold, Maedhros wore a coppery circlet on his coppery tresses, Telperion is silver while Lauren was golden with Turgon imitating their appearance for his own two trees in Gondolin, Finarfin and his kids have golden hair, Elwë has silver hair and crown, etc. The Númenorians whose culture was highly influenced by the Elven one, would not shun silver and copper.
Well this comment was much longer than I expected.
@@georged.5595 I don't really like the Numenorian costume designs in the Rings of Power so far.
But I kind of understand why they chose gold instead of silver. The second age Numenor is a very corrupt, arrogant, and decadent civilization (right before it sink) They are also in their golden age, the height of their civilization, and it kind of makes sense that they want to flaunt their wealth, considering how arrogant they were (they thought they could defy Eru, and the Valar). Also they were jealous of the elves, esp the Noldor. (According to Tolkien, Noldor preferred gold over silver, so maybe it could influence their fashion?)
I kind of imagine Numenorian fashion similar to Bizantine one, right before it was invaded, and destroyed by the Ottoman.
His name was Schliemann.
The head dress of Gilgalad is reminiscent of the laurel leave crowns of the Greeks.. they symbolize, not kingship, but victory. I think that there is a statue of Zeus wearing one? In one scene in the trailer he is crowning Galadriel with a golden Laurel leaf crown.
It still baffles me how corporations with practically unlimited $ supply do worse than individuals who do it in free time, for the fun of it. Like, you do costumes (this is the first time I came to your channel and saw your content), and it looks really good. In some other franchises, there are similar problems. In WH40K, one guy made an animated short film (Astartes) which is better than anything GW made, ever. In game development, we have very small teams, sometimes even a single person, making better games than what teams of hundreds of people do for big publishers. It just shows that, no matter how much money you have, it is the passion that drives creativity and quality - not the size of your bank account.
People then tend to say "Yeah, but it is easier with a bigger budget" - well, from what I see, especially in recent decade or so, the more money a project has, the worse it gets. There are some exemptions to the rule, but quite rare. My faith is with indie developers, designers and people who do it out of the passion for something, rather than money.
Again, good job on the costume design, I am liking it. Maybe a bit too much pearls for my taste, but royalty would not be royalty if they didn't over-emphasize their wealth in some way :)
I watched all three videos about costumes for Disa, Galadriel and Tar Miriel. I was blown away by the author's professionalism. It was a joy to sit and watch how Lana unravels the whole enigma of costumes and characters. The element that made me absolutely confident in Lana's talent is the costume for Tar Miriel. First, I thought the piece on her neck looks like a chain, which does not add to her noble status. But then I remembered her story. I was also confident that Lara would not put an element in the costume that does not serve a purpose. Which meant that Tar Meriel felt her circumstances, the pressure from the cousin. And intuitively or intentionally decorated herself with that neck-piece.
3:30 so is no one going to mention the fidget spinner in the center piece.
It's been commented on before, but yes, the first thing that came at me is the Galadriel character wearing iron gauntlets in a winter scene. Frostbite! yes! Frostbite! And you have metal stars pinned on your shoulders.
Wow, this was a interesting take of the Rings of power. I like the background analysis of the clothing and your opinion about the outfits, especially about the star, silver and the armour.
Verry interesting work and good video, thanks!
One thing I have loved learning from videos about Tolkien’s works is how some elves valued silver over gold and were connected to the stars. And that there was maybe a connection between good people more closely associating with silver and wood/earth tones versus gold. Not 100%, but I can see how that makes some sense.
And I actually really like that because it’s unusual. In most peoples minds I think they’d automatically think of the very sophisticated elves only using what we see as the best in our society and world. It’s cool that Tolkien was able to think of a society within his world that would value something we don’t value very much as the best-and to make them a high class society (and good) too essentially.
Plus gold definitely tends to be associated with wealth and then greed sometimes. Which makes me think of dwarves or dragons. So it makes sense to have good people with great taste preferring silver which is more practical but still beautiful.
2:10 There's a fold in her armpit. How can you sell a scaled armour when it's clearly a shirt with scales printed on? This reminds me of an amateur play that uses gray dyed wool to simulate chainmail.
3:06 that crown looks like what a Baratheon would wear. Because it reminds me of the antlers of a stag
Your suggestions are SO MUCH better than the official costumes for her.
Tar-Miriel after her chicken burger, gets her Burger King crown.
LMAO🤣🤣🤣
I LOVE your design! Looks so intelligent and fashionable
Fell upon your video randomly and as an old sailor, who loves LOTR from the early dawn of the tale's popularity, I must say you captured the essence of my imagination of Númenor and the splendor of its people and culture in your fashions. I had never really thought of the look just had a concept but you have pulled it from my stream of consciousness. Thanks, while not my typical interests your video was a joy to watch and listen to :)
The outfit at around 4:34 is the kind of outfit I would expect of the dwarves. If "Disa" wore something like that (and, ya know, had at least a little a beard!) her character would fit into her culture and world so much better.
I love the blue detail at the hem! So simple, and yet it speaks to grace and beauty.
So the helmet cheek guards have scale mail on them. Interesting choice, there.
This was much better and elfs inspired costume. The culture on westerness was inheret from the Eldar and the Edain.
I think I would have gone for a deeper blue, but otherwise, I like your redesign. The pastel colors seem more elven to me, partially because of the way they are often dressed in the LOTR movies.
She’s wearing shimmery nail polish 🤦🏻♀️Also, waaaaay too much gold. Love your redesign 💙
How on earth can be something
with a so enormous budget
so utterly cheap
the helmet seems very 1700s Japanese samurai general inspired. There was a time where the most gaudy helmet was seen as a status symbol and there were giant octopus and conch helmets as well as others that were even less practical.
She looks like a bollywood fashion show contestant.
I have issues with the giant gape in Miriel's armor at the shoulder-arm pit- chest area (timestamp 2:00). And what should be under armor appears to be fabric.
Honestly, if we have Ar-Pharazon, then we’re nearing the fall, he was the last King of Númenor and by this time, even without Sauron the Númenoreans had become corrupt, decadent and hedonistic. Sauron just took the ball and ran with it. They should look utterly opulent and rich, with excessive use of silks and royal blues, with silver and golden embroidery, they should look theatrical and attention grabbing.
And here’s the best thing, you can still have the more humble yet still regal dress, because she can then be of The Faithful, the people who stuck true to the Valar and the Elves, while The Kings Men, are the debauched and overtly opulent ones, because they actively sought to go against the Valar and the Elves.
I like your idea of draped pearls as a sort of sash to embellish the gown.
what's with this show trying to give every woman a fierce warrior personna?
a sad reflection of modern times entertainment i guess
A blue/white/silver theme would work better if the actress had the skin tone and coloring of the book Tar-Míriel: "And last of all the mounting wave... took to its bosom Tar-Míriel the Queen, fairer than silver or ivory or pearls." The designers seem to have their mind set on some Byzanthium-on-the-cheap style; some of the costumes worn by the extras look more like upholstery than something one would want to wear.
It's galvorn, ebony and black pearls in their version, I guess :D
I keep noticing how almost every aspect of RoP is one dimensional. It all feels like someone made a first draft of everything and they went with it, spending no time at all on pushing designs or exploring better, clearer alternatives to the initial thoughts or ideas. This level of entertainment gives me the impression that almost everyone involved was early level in their crafts with no guidance from more experienced people.
The main exception to this issue is the music by Bear McCreary. The music is beautiful but lacks any meaning because the story itself is empty. : (
love your sketch, simple but elegant
With how they dressed Disa and Miriel i feel like the costume designer got their outfit plans confused and was too lazy to change them back
They've made Miriel garish and offensive. She required no embellishment and it's a crime that her wardrobe overpowers her. She should have been a more feminine figure, not exotic and bold. This is not Tolkien's Miriel. That said, you are exactly correct about the colors and metals and gemstone choices. Their kingdom arose from the sea, it is guided by the stars ( not the sun!) The fish scales in slightly more than moderation would still be great but fish are delicate and agile creatures for the most part so at least give light and fragility to the gowns and strength ( as fish scales are very protective) to the armour. Any jewels mined locally work but blue stone, pale as water or green as the ocean. Silver OF COURSE! Ar-Pharazon was known for his gold but he's the LAST king, not the first 12-15, however many there were. Where is the influence of those stars and water, maybe Ulmo carvings or wave forms dominating not only dress but other .
Thanks! You seem to have a very fine taste in fashion (something I myself am painfully lacking unfortunately)
I was wondering if you could also do a review of male dresses in the show?
Thank you for your comment. I'm actually making a couple more general video on some of the other costumes in the show. I'm not as confident on the topic of male fashion, but i do my best to cover some of the more general aspects of the RoP designs and the makings of good costumes.
Amazon literally failed to understand almost anything about Lord of the Rings. It's shocking at just how ignorant they are of Tolkien's works.
Omg how do u basically capture exactly how I imagine Muriel to look with your recommendations. I totally love the pieces you suggested and its sooo much better than amazon's. Id love to see your version of her.
Your design is perfect! Just the right hint of elvish! I've always pictured Tar-Miriel in shades of blue. Turquoise and sea-green would also make sense, given the way Numenoreans honoured Ulmo, Osse and Uinen. Possibly wave, shell and sea foam elements in the embroidery and jewellery? Paua shell for jewellery would work as well.
It could be that the designers and creators googled Numenór, one link mentioned "Ar-Pharazon the Golden" and they said "Yeah, let's cover that shit in gold like it's Smaugs wet dream." At least that is, what i assume, the amount of research they put into everything about Tolkiens world.
Also, besides the scale "shirt" looking generally awful and more like a soft leather shirt with scale print.....is that supposed to be a scale chest plate with a scale mail shirt underneath? That doesn't make any sense to me. I hope (and think) some of the HEMA and armour/weapon channels will look into this. All the costume and weapon designs look purely optical and if they appear useful in a fight, it's probably by incident and not by intention.
Thank you!!! Blue shades flowing, yes. If they want to add jewelries, golden or silver accesories, maybe they can add them on the shoulders (but without the net like accesory), on the neckline or the belt. I think for this actress, just adding another rigid layer of fabric with abroidery will do well also. They don't need to add these chain mails on her torso. If she wants to wear an armour, it can just be plain-looking metal with very very few engraving, that's already enough.
You're spot on with your suggestions
Almost every costume in RoP look like you ordered it from Amazon... As RoP is just a business strategy to Amazon, they just gave the cast whatever they plan to sell online. Cheaper that way. Kid ordering RoP stuff (Amazon boxes) was in the first RoP teaser I saw, so the whole point is to sell second grade China rags.
You absolutely nailed it.
It just shows how much work and talent goes into the best costume designs… which are really the ones we don’t even really notice -when engrossed in the film.
N.B. I am wondering if these lines are why they have the fish scale armor..
There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was blade, and bound was hilt;
The delver mined, the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale,
And metal wrought like fishes' mail,
Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in hoard.
Michele Clapton, the costume designer for GOT, has said that in the early seasons all the background ladies would wear Cersei's style but as Margaery gained more power the court ladies would switch to her style, a subtle way of showing the shifts in influence.
So maybe ROP could have started with the Númenóreans wearing silver and stars but over the course of the series but as Ar-Pharazôn the Golden gained more power the people would switch to gold and sun motifs.
that's a great suggestion! although i honestly have no clue how the show is going to handle the whole Numenor storyline. We could go back to the book, back to the book - but I don't think that would tell us much lol
I absolutely love your drawn dress. Its exactly how i pictured what Tar-Miriel would wear. And I definitely agree with the opinions on how the show made their costumes. Imagine you habe 1 billion dolars and you spend it on that.😂
I really liked the examples from the internet (the jewelry and headpieces where absolutely beautiful) and what i imagine a queen of Numenor should have. You really have talent and you would be an amazing costume designer, with how you notice the details.
Out of all the details, I really don't mind the coral halo in Miriel's crown - it's a formal occasion in the throne room, she needs to be visible and imposing even to those who stand far away, so adding a heavier element to the crown is reasonable - and the lighter option with the dangly bits she wears as a sign of her position but for less official moments. Could it be done better? Probably, sure (the dangly bits remind me of the portraits of the Byzantine empress Theodora, but hers seem to be pearly, which would be a great choice here). But I think the reasoning behind it is sound.
2:45 Also the Numenoreans Kings didn't wear crowns because In Numenor the symbol of kingship was a scepter made of mithril, which was passed from father to son; only in the kingdom of Gondor will the Crown assume the royal functions...
One of the things that put me off from watching it is the costumes I'm sorry but when I think jjr Tolkien I think of two people ted nasmith and Peter Jackson. As for numenor I always thought silver, black and white or a deep blue and burgundy.
I just figured out that the scales on the armour and dresses represent fish scales, which makes sense for a seafaring nation. Blue is definitely the right color for a seafaring country. The scale armour and flashy headdress I think are purely ceremonial and aren't meant to be practical.
Thanks for your comment! Personally, i have more of an issue with the design, not so much the idea of fish scales as a symbol beig incorporated into the outfit.
Just thought I'd point out that there is more mention of gold than silver in relation to Numenor in The Silmarillion: Akallabeth.
They "clad themselves silver and gold"
Their King and Queens of old were "lying on beds of gold"
Ar Pharazons ship sails were "red and gold"
I think the argument for silver/pearls/ivory would be a creative choice to show the comparison with Ar Pharazon in terms of alliance/greed/pride and to at least acknowledge the one description we have of her which is regarding her being fairer than those things.
Thank you for bringing my attention to costume design in the original LOTR trilogy. Like most people out there I really don't pay that much attention to details like costume design, cinematography and the like. Sort of like watching a classic movie with commentary which makes me appreciate a film even more.
I think you are partly right about the color choice, the fathful should wear ”traditional” numenorean with silver & stars while the kings men should wear gold, preferably with the colors red and black
I would like a fairer skin as described by Tolkien.
Best compliment…”at least she doesn’t have big corals sticking out of her head”. 😂
You are correct about the stars. Sailors use stars to navigate their ships. Advanced practical astronomy would be absolutely necessary for a sea going kingdom.
Seven Stars,
Seven stones
and One white tree.
Also, I have a difficult time imagining Tolkien's characters wearing anything that hints at Southern Italy or Greece.
Maybe if you were going to have the Haladrim queen come for a visit?
Love your ideas for her gowns and jewelry. I don't know what it is with all the beaten gold head dresses and necklaces, I suppose it is cheaper to make?
Just wanted to point out that the sun as emblem of Numenor is something tolkien specified. The city we see in the first second of the video is probably "Andúnië" (The place of the sun in quenya, old capital of the kingdom of Numenor)
Also, the helmet is supposed to sit further down so it covers the brows, hence the brow design on the helmet! Drives me mad! Anyways, great video!
I agree with pretty much everything youve said so far about the costumes! Its funny, I was so excited to see the costumes in this and when things started coming out, I felt really disappointed, like I was waiting for more. And thats exactly what I thought "these feel costume-y. "They look like people trying to make costumes to go to comic con...except people who go to comic con generally do a better job then this even...but you get my point I hope. Maybe a better example would be halloween costumes? I love your designs so much! Youre very talented!
Numenor had no official Crown. They passed down a scepter as token of rule. Miriel appears to have multiple options, so they may simply be fashion statements, but that second one you focused on appears to have been intended to resemble the dead branches of the White Tree. As you say, it makes no sense that it should be made of gold, not because Numenor was associated with stars (by that point, Numenor was so wealthy from the tribute they levied on their colonies in Middle Earth that gold would be a plentiful and valued jewel setting) but because it's silly to make the likeness of a dead *white* tree out of a *golden* colored metal. Also because the White Tree was not yet dead. It was still a healthy seedling of the greater White Tree, which *also* did not die until Miriel's husband brought about about the Foundering that drowned it along with the entire island. I also agree that the branches look silly on a headdress, but we're talking about costumers who decided to make cabbage leaves and straw fashion forward headgear. Possibly in honor of Han-buri-han, whose people they otherwise don't dare portray.
For Miriel, I would LOVE to see Turkish style shapes but with VERY light fabric. Lots of chiffons and lace that you can barely tell is there. I love your idea of pearls and the color palette.
The sun was the symbol of men because the Elves awoke under the Moon and the Men awoke in the age of the sun. The men of Numenor had grown to resent the Elves by the reign of Pharazôn. Pharazôn means Golden in Sindar, his given name before taking that on that title was Tar-Calion, "Son of Light".
Exactly: in the series Ar-Pharazon's reign has not begun yet.
@Laurelin70 in the books there had already been a few generations of kings who resented the elves and the Valar. I'm not defending the shows lack of sticking to the books, but the sun symbolism still makes sense. We don't even see the symbolism of the stars and the white tree until after Numenor fell. So the sun symbol is the next most logical thing
The sketch is beautiful; worthy of a house that rules the Sea and knows it.
It makes SO much sense
I quite like the redesign. I saw some people saying the scales symbolized the ocean, but as another person said, they're not bloody fishermen! You suggested having shells and pearls, which are a much subtler and more elegant way of symbolizing the ocean. I think with a lot of these costumes they were trying to be smart and have people say "Wow! There's fish scales, which symbolize the ocean, and Numeneor is in the ocean! These costumes are so amazing" but really it's just weird and out of place. I don't think a bit of gold is wrong for Numeneor, but too much is too much. Any gold dress she would wear could have gold as the secondary color, not as the main one. I really love the dress you drew, it looks similar to the one I pictured her to wear when I read about her character.
I'd wished they had incorporated more of the egyptian Hedjet crown and Tolkien's fishcrest helmet designs.
I do not have any trouble with the general use of fishscale-armour... High-elves used it.It was inspired by Ulmo.
I think you're right about pretty much everything and I have a real question about all the scales, why so many scales on every costume? Is it because they live on an island and therefore are looking like fish? I wonder if it's this or to give a 'fighter' aspect to every other outfit... that would be dumb
Beautiful dress concept
I saw a ton of her promotional material and I had no idea she was supposed to be Tar Miriel, not even numerorean. The whole aesthetic looks so cheap that the Gondor of the movies looks more regal and ethereal than Númenor, not the other way around like it was supposed to be.
Do you review subscribers drawings of their own characters? I draw a lot and I have my own sci fi universe and some what fantasy series.
It’d be cool if you could review the costume design and give advice on what the design of the clothes should be for their specific purposes
That's fantastic, how cool! I haven't thought of doing that, but it sounds like a fun idea for the future. I'll seriously think about doing something like that, thanks for sharing!
@@LanaMarie aight bet. I mostly draw armor cause I don’t really know how to draw leather clothing 😂 but I’m practicing on it. And I don’t really know how to design the clothes for the character’s purpose like how you describe in your videos
Does Miriel have a constipation problem?The only expression on her face is disappointed and anger
I like the modern-days related touch with the masks on the extras. I hope they keep it in the shots 🙂
No Way! At 2:07 did they really just screen print some scale patterns on some fabric and call it a day? Ah yes the same attention to detail afforded to bargain bin Halloween costumes hahaha BTW, I really like the your redesign series so far, please keep up the great work!
Scale armour is much simpler to manufacture, albeit work-intensive, than plate would be : you need to produce a lot of small scales instead of much larger, finely-designed plates. While somewhat flexible, it doesn't offer the same level of protection, as any junction between scales is a potential point of failure. The fact that it wasn't used as widely as chainmail indicates that it possibly wasn't even as good as high-quality mail would be.
There is no reason why the highest-ranking nobles of the most advanced human kingdom ever, would NOT use some type of plate armour in battle which was standard equipment for Gondor (who had declined a lot compared to Numenor). For ceremonial uses fine, but certainly not in battle.
Tbh Im not at first look liking her fish scale or the soldiers I mean numenor was supposed to be really the greatest kingdom of all middle earth but I'll get used to it I for one still cannot wait for it. And the date being changed its coming one day earlier sept 1st instead of sept 2nd cos when I heard it had a date change I thought hu oh it's being put back but nice one to bring it forward.
Edit- your choices for her was excellent they should get on the phone and get you in for season 2.
Ya, part of the reason the LOTR movies worked was that the world looked right: Elegant costumes and beautiful locations and sets. This looks like a low budget 90s drama.
Yea, silver and black. With some sea bird wings, like aragorn's crown or the tower guard helmets. They are gondorian colors but gondor was a numenorian kingdom anyway.
I've just realized what 4:27 reminds me of--Padme
One option I would have liked would be making her dress (or cape) midnight black/blue with silvery patterns and small white gems on it, making the fabric look like the night sky itself, constellations and all. With moderate CGI, this effect could have been emphasised so that the Queen of Numenor looks appropriately awe-inspiring. That's my main problem with the character designs in RoP: There are so many powerful characters involved, yet none of them actually inspire awe and reverence. Sauron's design is probably one of the worst offenders here.
I think the netting and scales are meant to evoke the ocean part of the numenor style
Much improved. If like to see some seaweed patterns in the blue dress
obviously, they should have hired you to make their costumes. i'm being serious, and i hope i didn't sound snarky. all the examples you selected would look amazing and i would love to see your final drawing as one of her costumes.
she has a printed t-shirt under that looks so bad. Maby this is some affrican lore we dont know about.
It is rather sad, because Tar Miriel was described by Tolkien to be the most beautiful mortal woman in history of mankind. We are talking Helen of Troy stuff here.
I was expecting them to seek most beautiful young actress for this role.
Which this Miriel really is not...
She was also famously described bh Tolkien to be: "fairer than silver, pearls or ivory."
At least give her then silver/ivory/pearl design elements instead gold if you do not cast her correctly.
She doesn't even look to be related to her so called cousin. (Who also canonically was handsome golden haired man that was unable to grow beard, as royal house of Numenor was).
Less said about her casting choice, the better.
I dont remember reading about a female ruler in Númenor?
ofc im only asuming she's a female?
There was a queen, but she was the wife of the king, Pharazon.
Numenor historically had three ruling queens. Tar-Miriel was supposed to be the fourth, but her cousins Ar-Phazon was corrupted by Sauron and forcibly took the throne himself.
I am a huge fan of this, and I love the redesign you have done. (very accurate and beautiful) Id be pretty bias in asking to do Celebrimbor, as I wasn't a big fan of what they did with him in the Shadow of war games, and the shows adaptation makes my skin crawl.
What's wrong with the corals? They look great. And the golden sun rays on the helmet are perfectly plausible if you think about the crests upon the greek and roman helmets.
Your final design for Tar Miriel costume = almost there. Love the blue shades! The, erm.. Numenorean version of body chain starting from her neck... It would be still too modern for Tolkien LOTR standard, I think. I thought she looked like a queen in glimmering bondage for a BDSM session. Minus the choker necklace as a start, maybe start as diamond-studded shoulder pads; then either crossover strands of varying lengths of body chain to her waist...or let it fall down her arms to give an illusion of lightweight bat-wings sleeve or glittering waterfall on her arms = it may give her a better look?
I think her “bangles” are acting as more of a feminine vambrace, similar to Wonder Woman’s. Betcha that’s where they got the idea from. Not of her wearing them, just them being that small, instead of going all the way up there forearm. So they’re a functional jewelry sorta.
2yrs later and I’m still wondering why Numenoreans don’t wear neck armor. 😅
Fish scale armour was used in history it was pretty popular among the Persian and Parthian heavy cavalry and adopted in the Late Roman army.
but cuirasses were never made from fishscales or were worn together with fishscale body armour. If some armour was combines with a harness is was probably the byrny, a tunic made of tighlly knitted metal rings.
this not only looks dirt cheap it looks wrong on all accounts.