I finished this yesterday i read a clockwork orange earlier in the year and its one of my favourite books. This was right up there next to it Jorg has a huge amount of depth to his character alot of people's criticism of him is very surface level. These spoiler filled reviews are fantastic can't wait to finish the series to watch the rest! Hope you're good mark👊
Great summary. This is exactly what I was looking for. I listen to audiobooks while I work and do other things so, even after rewinding constantly, I end up missing things or misunderstanding some scenes. I always try to find summaries to help me fill the gaps and understand what was going on and your vid did exactly that. Thank you!
I've seen more than a few reviews from people having a hard time believing a child/teenager could do these things. Those people are reading a story about a world that has reverted back to medieval feudalism and magic exists, but they somehow draw the line at believing a road hardened teenager can be violent, strong, or ambitious. That's where their suspension of disbelief ends... hilarious. This is a terrific book and your review is great, thank you!
I also think this book is a great example of the strength of the first person perspective when writing a morally reprehensible character. You see how his mind develops, how he calculates his moves, and the fluctuating value of the lives of others against his mission and ambition. Btw, I love that we see the consequences of his edgelord moment of "I'm gonna eat this dude's heart to impress my gang of killers!" later on. It has lasting repercussions and he almost seems to regret it whenever it comes up in his mind. He learns not to eat malignant things just to look cool... but that lesson will be hard learned later.
Love Lawrence's work. I even like his newer YA stuff. His work reminds me of the older era of fantasy when they would keep the story lean, only telling you what you needed to know, and smashing different genre concepts together so that you would end up with both magic and sci-fi tech influences on the world.
You can easily see where Jorg's rage comes from. Not justifying his actions, but you can see how he was made that way. I enjoyed seeing the arc he goes through throughout the series. He is the embodiment of win at all costs. You feel for him and you want him to win because people in that world are terrible. I need to reread this. haha His ability to lead a group of killers is really interesting. It only adds to his legend that these men fear him, when he's younger and weaker, but he is so intelligent and violent that they have to respect him.
Finally I've read this book thanks to your strong recommendation. Great review. You do some of the best on TH-cam. Always speaking from the heart. Peace!
I really liked the set up for this series. PoT was one of the first non-WoT books I ever reviewed and it'll always hold sentimentality for that reason.
Finally read the first two books in the series, loved the decisions made by the author. Had no idea about the Clockwork Orange part. Now I'm even more intrigued. As always, thanks for the recommendations, and the enthusiasm.
Just finished Prince of Thorns last night. I also thought that eating the necromancers heart had something to do with him surviving what should have been a fatal stabwound, but I'm glad it wasn't fatal--I want to hang out with Jorg and his band of brothers some more. Great video man. Subbed!
@@slowlyred2082 As a long time fan of the movie and later the book A Clockwork Orange I didn't find out until long after finishing reading the Broken Empire series that this was the inspiration for Jorg. From memory my reaction was "hmmm that kind of makes sense" but as you said Alex is on another level of nasty. They also find very different endings. Jorg matures as a character and rehabilitates himself through vengeance and learning rather than being incarcerated and strapped to a chair for some experimental treatment to get less jail time like Alex.
I absolutely love this book so much! I get that some people desire their main characters to be relatable, and likable, but I never understood that desire much. I want characters to be interesting, above all, and understandable (by the end of their story). I feel, after the 3rd book, that I do understand Jorg. Some people have to remember that Jorg also was being influenced by Corion during his 4 years as a bandit. Some of his darkest actions were from being pushed there by Corion. After killing him, Jorg realizes this and is noticeably less randomly psycho after that point. He’s still extreme in his methods and ambition, but not violent just for the joy of it, and he shows empathy and restraint more often. Those “flare ups” Jorg experiences from what he refers to as the poison left in his veins from the thorns, that is Corion specifically! He tells Jorg this during their confrontation, and also Sageous says as much to him after Jorg comes back to Crath City. During this first book Jorg on several occasions refers to some alternate desire that pushed his whims away from attacking the Count directly, and in fact led his brothers to further the Count’s interests. I thought that revelation was a big deal! The intrusive thoughts to kill Katherine to “be done with her” are from Corion trying to drive Jorg further away from his father’s good graces. I guess my point is, Jorg is not as fully evil as some reviewers seem to pin him. It’s a much more complicated situation than some people think.
One of my all time favorites 🖤 I do like that when Corion's magic is gone, Jorg isn't some hero or outstanding guy. He's still very capable of nastiness but he isn't compelled to, like before. It's kinda similar to addicts. You can take the drugs away (compelling magic) but it doesn't automatically make the addict a great person all a sudden, they're just not being compelled by something
Didn't hate this one at all! I read Red Sister first and didn't like that one (too much "schoolisch" setting for my taste) so i almost gave up on Lawrence. Happy i didn't though.
Yeah, Red Sister wasn't my favorite, didn't make it through. Like you said the school setting/young protagonists thing wasn't for me. I had also just read the Poppy War which was too similar. Academy setting young protagonists.. I'm at the point I'm weeding out young protagonists and Academies for a while
Really great breakdown! Lawrence does really throw you in the deep end right off the bat, but for me setting the tone early was important because things definitely get worse and darker! I was instantly drawn in and burned through this series very quickly. Throughout the trilogy I really like that while you learn a lot about why Jorg is the way he is, there are never excuses made for him, just depth. There is one particularly dark flashback in each book, and man Lawrence doesn't pull punches (you will know exactly what I'm talking about when you get to them in the next two) and I know turns off a lot of readers as well. I will say for his survival, based on things made clearer in books 2-3 I think it will make a lot more sense as to why that was possible (trying to not spoil since it sounds like you are still reading the next book!).
Yeah im currently reading King, but these are rereads. The broken empire got me into fantasy years ago and made a very special place in my soul. The reread has been awesome for catching little stuff and I got Red Queens War im doing side by side which is fun with the crossovers
I finished this book last night and enjoyed it. I think the criticism that "it feels like it was written by an angry teenager" is because we are in fact inside the head of an angry teenager lol. There were a couple of moments i rolled my eyes a bit, (the horse kick for sure), but overall i don't get the hate for this book. I like the way Mark bridged fantasy with our times or future however you want to look at it, I will definitely be reading the rest of the series.
Alright!! King of Thorns is amazing. You'll definitely get a more mature Jorg Ancrath. He's still violent and dark but You'll see much more internal struggling with the dastardly deeds
Listened to the audiobook & at times found the book very confusing, maybe it was just the reader as apposed to reading it for myself and having the ability to reread certain parts but I have to say I was lost at times over all tho I did enjoy it and look foward to continuing the trilogy. Also I see that Paramount Studios bought the rights to broken empire back in 2017 would be very interesting to see how the mainstream would react to this story and how they would take Yorg Ancrath I'm sure a film would cut out some of his more heinous acts.
If it ever gets made, I assume they'll tone down Jorg. Much like Kubrick toned down Alex in clockwork orange. Still bring a brutal character but doubt they'll start the show off with him and the brother's raping and pillaging.. but who knows 🤔
Just finished it and can't wait to read more. Good thing I've the rest of the trilogy. Jorg is a fascinating character. Maybe reading Red Queen's War first helped but I kinda regret not reading Broken Empire first and learn about the world as Lawrence intended. I still adore RQW, its one of my favourite trilogies.
I didn't have a problem with Jorg. Yes, he is pretty edgy at times. But for example I hate Nynavae sooo much more from Wheel of Time. Being constantly bitchy and getting in everybody's face is much more annoying and unlikeable for me than being an evil character who is pretty edgy from time to time.
Great recap. From the little I heard about the book before reading it I expected Jorg to be an animal molester child grown into a full blown sociopath. But as a child Jorg obviously loved his mother and young brother (who actually seems to have been the more ruthless of the two), as well as their dog. Anyway, as terrible a person as he grew up to be, once I learned about what happened to his mother and brother I was team Jorg all the way. (and that's before even really knowing his father...). About Jorg's stubbing by his father, was it actually said that he was stubbed through the heart? I got the impression that it was a wound that he should have died from, which can mean a lot of things, but not that he was stubbed through the heart.
Olidan (Jorg's father) did stab him in the heart. It would have been fatal but it happens after Jorg has consumed the necromancer heart which is ultimately what gives him the power to survive his fathers attack.
This video was awesome! I just finished the Prince of Thorns and it was definitely one of the best books I've read in a while. I think I may have found one of my new favorite series, and I can't wait till I can start King of Thorns. The stuff at Castle Red was probably some of my favorite stuff from the book, especially when they were talking with the AI. I can understand why people pin Jorg the way they do, but I think it may be a bit overblown, especially when we find out how he was under a spell and that's where all that hate came from. By the end of the book, I was starting to like Jorg and some of his brothers like Makin. I find a lot of the other characters interesting too, like Jorg's father and Katherine and I want to know more about them. In general, I just love Mark Lawrence's writing style since it's so unique and clever. I'm so glad I started reading his books and can't wait to read the rest of them.
Hell yeah 😎 King of Thorns gets even better!! Jorg is definitely a complex character. Easy to see the bad, but the more you look into it, you see there's good as well. Especially his relationship with Makin, who i also love 🖤
I finished this yesterday i read a clockwork orange earlier in the year and its one of my favourite books. This was right up there next to it Jorg has a huge amount of depth to his character alot of people's criticism of him is very surface level. These spoiler filled reviews are fantastic can't wait to finish the series to watch the rest! Hope you're good mark👊
Great summary. This is exactly what I was looking for. I listen to audiobooks while I work and do other things so, even after rewinding constantly, I end up missing things or misunderstanding some scenes. I always try to find summaries to help me fill the gaps and understand what was going on and your vid did exactly that. Thank you!
I've seen more than a few reviews from people having a hard time believing a child/teenager could do these things. Those people are reading a story about a world that has reverted back to medieval feudalism and magic exists, but they somehow draw the line at believing a road hardened teenager can be violent, strong, or ambitious. That's where their suspension of disbelief ends... hilarious.
This is a terrific book and your review is great, thank you!
I also think this book is a great example of the strength of the first person perspective when writing a morally reprehensible character. You see how his mind develops, how he calculates his moves, and the fluctuating value of the lives of others against his mission and ambition.
Btw, I love that we see the consequences of his edgelord moment of "I'm gonna eat this dude's heart to impress my gang of killers!" later on. It has lasting repercussions and he almost seems to regret it whenever it comes up in his mind. He learns not to eat malignant things just to look cool... but that lesson will be hard learned later.
Love Lawrence's work. I even like his newer YA stuff. His work reminds me of the older era of fantasy when they would keep the story lean, only telling you what you needed to know, and smashing different genre concepts together so that you would end up with both magic and sci-fi tech influences on the world.
You can easily see where Jorg's rage comes from. Not justifying his actions, but you can see how he was made that way. I enjoyed seeing the arc he goes through throughout the series. He is the embodiment of win at all costs. You feel for him and you want him to win because people in that world are terrible. I need to reread this. haha
His ability to lead a group of killers is really interesting. It only adds to his legend that these men fear him, when he's younger and weaker, but he is so intelligent and violent that they have to respect him.
Finally I've read this book thanks to your strong recommendation. Great review. You do some of the best on TH-cam. Always speaking from the heart. Peace!
Commenting and thumbs up now for your TH-cam algorithm :).Because I know I will enjoy this. Will actually watch the video when I'm done the book.
I really liked the set up for this series. PoT was one of the first non-WoT books I ever reviewed and it'll always hold sentimentality for that reason.
I think you would dig Red Queens War 👍
Finally read the first two books in the series, loved the decisions made by the author. Had no idea about the Clockwork Orange part. Now I'm even more intrigued. As always, thanks for the recommendations, and the enthusiasm.
Did you read both A clockwork Orange and prince of thorns. If so can you help me cause I have to write a compare and contrast essay on it
As well does you have any good ideas of a compare and contrast thesis for those two books
Just finished this very interesting book and I am glad your very well-argued video was here to help me reflect my thoughts on it. Subbed!
This book was a game changer for me. 🖤
Just finished Prince of Thorns last night. I also thought that eating the necromancers heart had something to do with him surviving what should have been a fatal stabwound, but I'm glad it wasn't fatal--I want to hang out with Jorg and his band of brothers some more. Great video man. Subbed!
This was great to watch having finished the book for the first time about 40 minutes ago (hell yeah I'm going to reread it one day)
I hate how much hate this book gets.
It's certainly frustrating, if you love the books
@@slowlyred2082 As a long time fan of the movie and later the book A Clockwork Orange I didn't find out until long after finishing reading the Broken Empire series that this was the inspiration for Jorg. From memory my reaction was "hmmm that kind of makes sense" but as you said Alex is on another level of nasty. They also find very different endings. Jorg matures as a character and rehabilitates himself through vengeance and learning rather than being incarcerated and strapped to a chair for some experimental treatment to get less jail time like Alex.
I absolutely love this book so much! I get that some people desire their main characters to be relatable, and likable, but I never understood that desire much. I want characters to be interesting, above all, and understandable (by the end of their story). I feel, after the 3rd book, that I do understand Jorg.
Some people have to remember that Jorg also was being influenced by Corion during his 4 years as a bandit. Some of his darkest actions were from being pushed there by Corion. After killing him, Jorg realizes this and is noticeably less randomly psycho after that point. He’s still extreme in his methods and ambition, but not violent just for the joy of it, and he shows empathy and restraint more often.
Those “flare ups” Jorg experiences from what he refers to as the poison left in his veins from the thorns, that is Corion specifically! He tells Jorg this during their confrontation, and also Sageous says as much to him after Jorg comes back to Crath City.
During this first book Jorg on several occasions refers to some alternate desire that pushed his whims away from attacking the Count directly, and in fact led his brothers to further the Count’s interests. I thought that revelation was a big deal! The intrusive thoughts to kill Katherine to “be done with her” are from Corion trying to drive Jorg further away from his father’s good graces.
I guess my point is, Jorg is not as fully evil as some reviewers seem to pin him. It’s a much more complicated situation than some people think.
One of my all time favorites 🖤
I do like that when Corion's magic is gone, Jorg isn't some hero or outstanding guy. He's still very capable of nastiness but he isn't compelled to, like before.
It's kinda similar to addicts. You can take the drugs away (compelling magic) but it doesn't automatically make the addict a great person all a sudden, they're just not being compelled by something
Didn't hate this one at all! I read Red Sister first and didn't like that one (too much "schoolisch" setting for my taste) so i almost gave up on Lawrence. Happy i didn't though.
Yeah, Red Sister wasn't my favorite, didn't make it through. Like you said the school setting/young protagonists thing wasn't for me.
I had also just read the Poppy War which was too similar. Academy setting young protagonists..
I'm at the point I'm weeding out young protagonists and Academies for a while
Really great breakdown! Lawrence does really throw you in the deep end right off the bat, but for me setting the tone early was important because things definitely get worse and darker! I was instantly drawn in and burned through this series very quickly. Throughout the trilogy I really like that while you learn a lot about why Jorg is the way he is, there are never excuses made for him, just depth. There is one particularly dark flashback in each book, and man Lawrence doesn't pull punches (you will know exactly what I'm talking about when you get to them in the next two) and I know turns off a lot of readers as well. I will say for his survival, based on things made clearer in books 2-3 I think it will make a lot more sense as to why that was possible (trying to not spoil since it sounds like you are still reading the next book!).
Yeah im currently reading King, but these are rereads. The broken empire got me into fantasy years ago and made a very special place in my soul. The reread has been awesome for catching little stuff and I got Red Queens War im doing side by side which is fun with the crossovers
@@slowlyred2082 Okay that makes sense, I thought I'd heard you talk about reading Broken Empire before! I still need to read Red Queen's War.
Red queens war is great, It really adds to the builders tech, world and lore
I could gush and gush but I think you cover everything 😍
I don't think Jorg would mind a little extra gush
Brother, you rock at this.
Thanks brother 🙏
I swear that i try to avoid spoilers but you made it irresistible, i can't help it 😉
I finished this book last night and enjoyed it. I think the criticism that "it feels like it was written by an angry teenager" is because we are in fact inside the head of an angry teenager lol. There were a couple of moments i rolled my eyes a bit, (the horse kick for sure), but overall i don't get the hate for this book. I like the way Mark bridged fantasy with our times or future however you want to look at it, I will definitely be reading the rest of the series.
Alright!! King of Thorns is amazing. You'll definitely get a more mature Jorg Ancrath. He's still violent and dark but You'll see much more internal struggling with the dastardly deeds
@@slowlyred2082 yea man i think this was Mark's first novel? It was a little disjointed so i can give him a pass on that.
Yeah, I believe its his first published book. He might of written Gun Law first.. not sure
Listened to the audiobook & at times found the book very confusing, maybe it was just the reader as apposed to reading it for myself and having the ability to reread certain parts but I have to say I was lost at times over all tho I did enjoy it and look foward to continuing the trilogy. Also I see that Paramount Studios bought the rights to broken empire back in 2017 would be very interesting to see how the mainstream would react to this story and how they would take Yorg Ancrath I'm sure a film would cut out some of his more heinous acts.
If it ever gets made, I assume they'll tone down Jorg. Much like Kubrick toned down Alex in clockwork orange. Still bring a brutal character but doubt they'll start the show off with him and the brother's raping and pillaging.. but who knows 🤔
I didnt know Paramount bought the rights. If they make a Broken Empire show i will instantly subscribe to Paramount plus or whatever it gets put on.
@@StevenBeverage I'll be subscribed in a hot second 🙌
Dope review dude, really enjoyed your video
Those were nuclear weapons? Idk why but that part of the book I got a little lost on for some reason
would you give Runebinder by Alex R. Kahler ago.
Never heard of it, checking it out now 😉
dont know how much you like prince of thorns but grim oak press has a nice book for pre order signed
Already ordered 😉
The Broken Empire is a trilogy I hold very near and dear.
Planning on getting each 10th anniversary edition as they drop
Just finished it and can't wait to read more. Good thing I've the rest of the trilogy. Jorg is a fascinating character.
Maybe reading Red Queen's War first helped but I kinda regret not reading Broken Empire first and learn about the world as Lawrence intended. I still adore RQW, its one of my favourite trilogies.
Both are amazing 🙌
@@slowlyred2082 love how Lawrence blends the Post-Apocalyptic with Science-Fiction and Fantasy.
Definitely an awesome blend. It's a world i never get tired of.
@@slowlyred2082 hopefully Lawrence will continue to write in this world
I'm not sure if he'll return. But if he does, I'll be buying it, no doubt
Nice review :) I personally loved the book.
One of my all time favorites 🖤
I didn't have a problem with Jorg. Yes, he is pretty edgy at times. But for example I hate Nynavae sooo much more from Wheel of Time.
Being constantly bitchy and getting in everybody's face is much more annoying and unlikeable for me than being an evil character who is pretty edgy from time to time.
This books so good I love Jorg’s character
Jorg 🖤🖤🖤
Great recap. From the little I heard about the book before reading it I expected Jorg to be an animal molester child grown into a full blown sociopath. But as a child Jorg obviously loved his mother and young brother (who actually seems to have been the more ruthless of the two), as well as their dog. Anyway, as terrible a person as he grew up to be, once I learned about what happened to his mother and brother I was team Jorg all the way. (and that's before even really knowing his father...).
About Jorg's stubbing by his father, was it actually said that he was stubbed through the heart? I got the impression that it was a wound that he should have died from, which can mean a lot of things, but not that he was stubbed through the heart.
Olidan (Jorg's father) did stab him in the heart. It would have been fatal but it happens after Jorg has consumed the necromancer heart which is ultimately what gives him the power to survive his fathers attack.
@@slowlyred2082 Thanks. In any case I had no problem with that part. Great book.
This video was awesome! I just finished the Prince of Thorns and it was definitely one of the best books I've read in a while. I think I may have found one of my new favorite series, and I can't wait till I can start King of Thorns. The stuff at Castle Red was probably some of my favorite stuff from the book, especially when they were talking with the AI. I can understand why people pin Jorg the way they do, but I think it may be a bit overblown, especially when we find out how he was under a spell and that's where all that hate came from. By the end of the book, I was starting to like Jorg and some of his brothers like Makin. I find a lot of the other characters interesting too, like Jorg's father and Katherine and I want to know more about them. In general, I just love Mark Lawrence's writing style since it's so unique and clever. I'm so glad I started reading his books and can't wait to read the rest of them.
Hell yeah 😎
King of Thorns gets even better!!
Jorg is definitely a complex character. Easy to see the bad, but the more you look into it, you see there's good as well. Especially his relationship with Makin, who i also love 🖤
Shit dude great presentation, could use more cowbell but whatevs