"Oh, goodness me, not another Bach Chorale analysis." That is a phrase that has NEVER EVER been uttered by anyone subscribed to your videos. I have a sightreading book of 150 Chorales, but in snippets like you have for learning. So as soon as I saw a Chorale book of 389 full chorales, I bought it. Merci beaucoup, Gareth.
What I really would like to see is a video about the overal structure/form of these kind of pieces. There are so many videos explaining harmony and melody and all those things are super insightful but if you want to actually write a whole piece or play these pieces with some sense of direction you need to understand the overal form and what kinds were typical for which genre. When a piece goes on for 8 minutes it is not just mindlessly doing whatever or that it is just “genius” that us mortals can’t comprehend. All these styles are heavily structured and refined, these composers weren’t just doing whatever or mindlessly riding on their genius. But this so often gets overlooked. Same for pop music. You can find endless videos on chords and progressions and whatnot but so little on song form. Often times it doesn’t go further than verse chorus repeat bridge chorus. And same with ‘classical’, a quick mention of ABA and sonata form and that’s it. It took me ages to figure out by myself how a piece like the aria from Goldberg variation was structured. 16 bars establishing the I, 16 bars establishing the V, 16 bars floating around in the paralel minor key and then a 16 bar ritornello-ish sequence part back to I. But there is probably some kind of name for this, probably pretty typical aria form from that time.
Well I've worked through all 15 of the Inside the MInd of Bach series now (please tell me if I have missed any) and have spent hours and hours and learned so much. What a fantastic and invaluable series. Thank you so much Gareth.
Many thanks - it's was Realizing Figured Bass which I had missed from the Bach series - I have worked through the Simple and the Advanced figured bass videos in the 'non-Bach' videos so the Bach one is for tomorrow!
Leaps at the conclusion of a phrase, stability otherwise, including repeated notes. Good stuff! I feel my knowledge is getting more and more solid Thanks!
How crazy is this: I was watching this video last night and recognizing this choir somehow, today I realize that it is very close to the one I was preparing to record as a guitar duo arrangement. It is a similar version, but a bit less sophisticated (perhaps an earlier version?). I've been following the "371" editions. I just posted the performance of it if anyone is interested.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
It gets quite esoteric when you look into the internal harmonies of Bach and I think that's what led to many of the way out there works of Schumann, Shostakovich, Ravel, Villa-Lobos, etc. Each looked into that reflecting pool and saw a pure logic that resembled, to them, insanity, then they just ran with it lol I know, I know, I'll see myself out. Great video, by the way.
I have been listening to the recording of sung Bach chorales on the channel Roc Vela, however, I am not sure if he will do all 186 of his collection or whether there are recordings of the 389 in the Kalmus Edition, which I have at the house.
Hi Gareth and gang: A possible suggestion: any way to enlarge the score? Some of us are viewing this on mobile. And it’s pretty small right now If that works for you Best regards, David
Hi David. It’s difficult to read the scores on a mobile. We’ve got a pretty big font size and it’s great on a bigger screen. Difficult to get the score any bigger but will see what we can do.
There’s nothing to say one shouldn’t do that but your point is well made. Much results from the repeated A’s in the melody and Bach’s desire for moving harmony and moving bass line. This plan makes for a better melodic outcome in the bass line.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
@@MusicMattersGB Just finished your excellent course on Transforming Your Harmonic Writing. I know what to look for in pieces now and understand the function of these devises. I plan on taking the composition course after digesting this course for the moment. Thank you!
Ah... Bach... and he manages to get away with a direct unisson alt-ten (beat 2 and 3 in measure 4). Luckily the soprano goes to the A allowing the alto to jump down to the tenor's C# seamlessly...(I wasn't allowed to do that...) Amazingly clever that Bach...
Why did bach double the major third at the end of bar 4. The chord 1 in first inversion going to the potential ii7b onto the IC. If he intended it to be the faster harmonic rhythm so intentionally put the Ib there then I don't really see a reason for doubling the major third I suppose if you want to go to the ii7b makes sense but he could've just moved the bass to the A straight away and had the G as an accented passing note in the melody. Just theorising but I can see multiple ways around the double major third and I thought you weren't meant to do it unless you have a good reason too and I don't really see why?
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"Oh, goodness me, not another Bach Chorale analysis."
That is a phrase that has NEVER EVER been uttered by anyone subscribed to your videos.
I have a sightreading book of 150 Chorales, but in snippets like you have for learning. So as soon as I saw a Chorale book of 389 full chorales, I bought it.
Merci beaucoup, Gareth.
😀
Thank you very much for your 2 last videos on Bach chorales! Bach's absolute mastery of harmony is an eternal resource of knowledge and inspiration.
It’s fabulous music.
Delightful video (as always). Studying Bach harmony is always joy. Thanks so much.
Absolutely!
What I really would like to see is a video about the overal structure/form of these kind of pieces. There are so
many videos explaining harmony and melody and all those things are super insightful but if you want to actually write a whole piece or play these pieces with some sense of direction you need to understand the overal form and what kinds were typical for which genre.
When a piece goes on for 8 minutes it is not just mindlessly doing whatever or that it is just “genius” that us mortals can’t comprehend. All these styles are heavily structured and refined, these composers weren’t just doing whatever or mindlessly riding on their genius. But this so often gets overlooked. Same for pop music. You can find endless videos on chords and progressions and whatnot but so little on song form. Often times it doesn’t go further than verse chorus repeat bridge chorus. And same with ‘classical’, a quick mention of ABA and sonata form and that’s it. It took me ages to figure out by myself how a piece like the aria from Goldberg variation was structured. 16 bars establishing the I, 16 bars establishing the V, 16 bars floating around in the paralel minor key and then a 16 bar ritornello-ish sequence part back to I. But there is probably some kind of name for this, probably pretty typical aria form from that time.
Okay. We will see what we can do on overall structure
@@MusicMattersGB ❤️
😀
Thank you! This video is wonderful as well as a masterpiece you choose to talk about.🎼🖤
Well I've worked through all 15 of the Inside the MInd of Bach series now (please tell me if I have missed any) and have spent hours and hours and learned so much. What a fantastic and invaluable series. Thank you so much Gareth.
A pleasure.
P.S. you can find the full playlist here Inside the Mind of Bach
th-cam.com/play/PL5j5H06QkhxHrUj-K8HGbuAzIgWop17Wa.html
Many thanks - it's was Realizing Figured Bass which I had missed from the Bach series - I have worked through the Simple and the Advanced figured bass videos in the 'non-Bach' videos so the Bach one is for tomorrow!
@yes901259 Excellent
More Bach. Rick Beato recently interviewed Sting who said his main inspiration was Bach. So will be popular now. It’s why I watched.
You can never spend too much time with Bach.
Leaps at the conclusion of a phrase, stability otherwise, including repeated notes. Good stuff! I feel my knowledge is getting more and more solid
Thanks!
That’s great
Thanks for highlighting the notes as you talk, it definitely helps me. Also, great stuff as always.
Many thanks.
Excellent as always Gareth 😊😊 keep the chorale videos coming 😀👏👏
😀
Great insights as usual .
Seasons greetings & thank you
And to you. Thanks for your support.
How crazy is this: I was watching this video last night and recognizing this choir somehow, today I realize that it is very close to the one I was preparing to record as a guitar duo arrangement. It is a similar version, but a bit less sophisticated (perhaps an earlier version?). I've been following the "371" editions. I just posted the performance of it if anyone is interested.
😀
Thanx, Maestro 🌹🌹🌹
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Great channel Gareth!
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Very nice! Thank you for explaining all that.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
Thank you so much
A pleasure. Thanks for your support
@@MusicMattersGB you deserve it
It gets quite esoteric when you look into the internal harmonies of Bach and I think that's what led to many of the way out there works of Schumann, Shostakovich, Ravel, Villa-Lobos, etc. Each looked into that reflecting pool and saw a pure logic that resembled, to them, insanity, then they just ran with it lol I know, I know, I'll see myself out. Great video, by the way.
😀
I have been listening to the recording of sung Bach chorales on the channel Roc Vela, however, I am not sure if he will do all 186 of his collection or whether there are recordings of the 389 in the Kalmus Edition, which I have at the house.
It’s good to listen to them
Hi Gareth and gang:
A possible suggestion: any way to enlarge the score? Some of us are viewing this on mobile. And it’s pretty small right now
If that works for you
Best regards,
David
Hi David. It’s difficult to read the scores on a mobile. We’ve got a pretty big font size and it’s great on a bigger screen. Difficult to get the score any bigger but will see what we can do.
Do you think the extra pre cadential richness in the first cadence was put their to ease/obscure the false relation
That’s possibly part of the thinking
Hi there, I just found out this one suprisingly similar to the no.2. And they have the same name...was it an revised?
Bach sometimes made more than one setting of particular Chorale melodies.
I expected an analisis to one of these Bach pieces focused on minor armony but sadly its only basic chords from major scale
This video is about common notes not minor harmony but you can see our Bach Chorale video on minor harmony
Do you plan to/have any videos on writing “sustained melodies” over relatively “fast” chord progressions.
We could do
@@MusicMattersGB Yes
😀
Sir, in the second bar, the beat after the cadence why the tenor is going from G to E. Why not G to B???/.
That was Bach’s choice, probably because E follows next in the tenor so he’s using a common note.
Why does Bach use root tonic chord on a weak beat (2) or is it ok because the root tonic is on the 3rd A in the melody?
There’s nothing to say one shouldn’t do that but your point is well made. Much results from the repeated A’s in the melody and Bach’s desire for moving harmony and moving bass line. This plan makes for a better melodic outcome in the bass line.
@@MusicMattersGB
Thank you for your response.
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here th-cam.com/channels/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQg.htmljoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
A pleasure
@@MusicMattersGB Just finished your excellent course on Transforming Your Harmonic Writing. I know what to look for in pieces now and understand the function of these devises. I plan on taking the composition course after digesting this course for the moment. Thank you!
Ah... Bach... and he manages to get away with a direct unisson alt-ten (beat 2 and 3 in measure 4). Luckily the soprano goes to the A allowing the alto to jump down to the tenor's C# seamlessly...(I wasn't allowed to do that...) Amazingly clever that Bach...
All brilliant stuff
Is this a bwv 347
The number used is the number in the Bach Chorale collection by Riemenschneider.
Lol this looks so much like the chorale melody I wrote for myself to make my life difficult. Needless to say, Bach handles it better
You did a pretty good job yourself
@@MusicMattersGB thank you sir
😀
Why did bach double the major third at the end of bar 4. The chord 1 in first inversion going to the potential ii7b onto the IC. If he intended it to be the faster harmonic rhythm so intentionally put the Ib there then I don't really see a reason for doubling the major third I suppose if you want to go to the ii7b makes sense but he could've just moved the bass to the A straight away and had the G as an accented passing note in the melody. Just theorising but I can see multiple ways around the double major third and I thought you weren't meant to do it unless you have a good reason too and I don't really see why?
When Bach does that it’s often to preserve stepwise movement in the bass. It also enables contrary motion between the outer parts.