Bonanza Prop Face Off Performance Comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2020
- FlyWire does a Face-off Performance Comparison between a 2 Blade Black Mac and a 3 Blade MT on Charlie the Bonanza. Check it out!
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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Scott, We are honored that you made the purchase and posted these videos...very well done and very professional. Other owners report lower CHT with the MT and reduced fuel flows at same MP/RPM of the metal prop it replaced. Did you document these values in your tests? One other fact is the MT blade design used here LOVES low RPM and high power (MP). Do some flights were you roll back RPM at roll out to 2550 or 2600 and see the added pull. Then in cruise, try running at 2200-2300 RPM and full power, leaned for peak efficiency... you will see a very slight reduction in speed, but fuel burn goes way down along with noise. I can add nearly 30% to the range of my plane by running this way at an altitude where my non-turbo engine finds it's sweet spot (about 8000MSL). Keep up the great work! John.
Good Question I am planning on one day re-inventing/modding an Aircoupe A2 (the one with peddles and limiters removed)
and from what I gather it is as standard it is as fuel efficient if not sometimes better than Cessna 150
( I know it's not a real plane but I just love that twin tail )
and I if that was designed in 1939 then with new tech like this MT Prop and Fuel injection then how much better could it be.?
Try it out!
Thanks John, I appreciate it! I'm looking forward to exploring the envelope!
Thanks for the video! When I went from a two blade to a three blade on my Debonair, the engine would come up to speed quicker on takeoff and my longitudinal stability improved in flight
That's good info, thanks for sharing!
Thank you so much! I couldnt find any experienced pilots or even seasoned Flight Instructors who could elaborate a bit on this very question Ive had for awhile!
And I must say though you both tried your best to scientifically hit every similarity in comparison, its nearly impossible to do so as pockets of high and low pressure air, humidity, etc. move in and out between tests that could contribute significantly to the performance results. It would therefore be interesting to see say, at a Beech or Cessna Testing Facility what the "Bench Tests" have been for Prop Configurations and types.
Secondly, with enough interest here, perhaps some manufacturers can send you either different three or possibly four blade props of different engineering designs and prop LENGTHS to see if any additional improvements can be made in this challenge.
Personally, with the Old Piper Cubs so underpowered combined with lack of modern engine cooling systems, I would not normally think it advisable to try non-approved MT's on these old planes as theyre engine lifespans could be significantly shortened or simply run too hot, but if somebody could prove otherwise, would be a huge breakthrough in this Niche Market. Hopefully someday someone will address this specific model/prop challenge.
Thanks again to the both of you, wish you continued success, and will check back here in a few months!
David from Aust- Hey Scott, that seemed like a fair comparison and a good assessment, without too much geek.
I wonder if the 3 blade lessens the 2 blades tendency to pull to the left in climb or steeper angles of attack?
I'm a fan of you, Juan, and Trevor with your insightful but honest, decent and forthright assessments of mistakes or accidents.
Keep up the great work- all investigators could look to you guys for further inspiration, and compassionate findings.
Nice video Scott! I just pulled my own prop off for the first time. Was surprised how easy it was.
Thanks Dan, I appreciate it!
Love comparison test , Love your channel , always learn something good.
I just started looking into bonanzas, and your channel is very informative. Thanks for taking the time to do these kind of videos!
You bet, you’ll love them!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.!!!!
I have it on good authority** that your shows are pleasantly rewatchable.
**Yes...I am that authority and I approve that message.
Thanks Joe!
You’ll pick up the extra 3 knots of cruise when you get that spinner pinstriped in red. In al seriousness, great video and looking forward to the next one.
HAHA... now that is funny. I’ve got a plan... and the red vinyl on order. Real soon now!
in all seriousness, at 7:21 I saw the IAS showing 156 Kts. Or is there some calibration issue to which we are not privy. Don't worry I won't squeal to Dr. Albrecht in you. But I heard you say 153 kts with it straight and level zero V/S, and that the M-T was 3 kts slower than the black mack.
Really enjoy your channel, thanks!!
Glad you enjoy it!
Fabulous!! Looks great!
Thanks so much!
Great channel. Real good information.
Thanks for watching
Great Video ,thanks for the Information ,good Test
Thanks for watching!
Really informative ...Thanks
My pleasure
Great information as always. I heard your channel mentioned on the Aviation News Talk podcast!
That’s really cool, Jack thanks!
@@FlyWirescottperdue check out episode 167
Congrats to the review! As predicted...🤓👌
Thanks! 👍
Ex Dutch F33C Bonanza ( PH-BNF ). Good to see you are taking good care of it 👍👍
It is indeed. A fun airplane!
I remember an old Cessna 205, back in the 60s, that had a 2 blade and burnt out muffler baffles such that I couldn’t fly it due to quick onset of sick headaches.
Excellent comparison, it would be interesting to compare fuel consumption/speed/mpg on the two different propellers, at long range cruise power setting, for example if you were going on a 300 mile trip at say 10k alt. Thanks for the very clear and professional videos!!
Thanks, I taking the airplane down for some avionics work... but soon I'll do some XC stuff!
hehe at 0:40 :) Great video! Thanks for the content
Thanks for watching! I crack myself up;)
I tell people I have an RV. Then I tell them I don’t fly. I appreciate your videos, thank you for teaching different aspects of flying and plane ownership. maybe someday when I have an extra $15,000, I will learn.
Thanks Jim! My motto is don’t leave it for your kids!
For those of us who no longer fly this is how we stay in touch. My aviation experiences started with massive ground school instruction for years. Strong focus on the basics.
Appreciate it!
Scott, I'd say the extra smoothness and (relative) quiet of the 3-blade make it a great choice. Also the increased takeoff and initial climb. About that overall 2% climb increase, my thought is that the short time the 2-blade outclimbed the 3-blade may well be an anomaly, caused by who knows what, and that the overall increase in climb is really much greater than 2%. And a two-knot cruise decrease is a small price to pay for all those benefits.
Malcolm, that was my thought as well. But I didn't log any anomaly that I could detect. Random updraft maybe...
Similar performance experiences with 2 bl vs 3 bl on the RV-10.
Your anomaly could have been caused by a change in air density. Higher humidity or temperature from 3-4K.
Thank you for the great videos.
Very excellent presentation. Comparing 2-blade vs 3-blade prop on the same plane is a rarity and most informative. Surprised the 3-blade did not beat the 2-blade by larger margin.
I was surprised at how well this 2 Blade did, it is pretty good for a 2 blade!
Good ole Borland
Very cool. Yours has to be one of the last Aerobatic Bonanzas, quite unique. I have worked on many Bonanzas over 25 years either for or with engine shops. 3 blade props have always been considered climb props, 2 blades cruise. I ran a Saratoga with an MT 3 blade and it was pretty smooth and quiet but the lack of weight made shut downs and starting a little disconcerting at times. Not BAD just really different.
Thanks for sharing Upside. This is my 5th Bonanza... don't know why I waited so long to get an aerobatic one. I love it!
@@FlyWirescottperdue
Any of the previous Bonanzas V tails? My favorite is the 1966 V35, followed by the 64/65 S35.
Did they top off the tank for equal fuel weight between tests?
I'm in therapy for my upgrade addictions.... just did an Electroair, ported heads and tuned exhaust... new windows begin in a couple days... I think I've balanced out the 3 blade penalty. I also say 'don't leave it for your kids'
I guess I’m in therapy too;)
My uncle took me up in his Cessna 150 summer of 1964, Tradewinds Airport Amarillo at age 5 and later in his 172 then Debonair. I've been hooked for life on studying aviation.
Thanks for Watching!
Big question. When you came back and change your propellers out did you add fuel for the amount of fuel that you burned on that first run because obviously you would be a lot lighter specially when you’re burning 20 some gallons an hour for your speed run and your backs climb. So if you did not fuel that certainly has to weigh a lot into performances on every aspect
Good question. I only used full power for the climb (9 minutes) and came back down immediately. The weight difference was about 20 lb... not enough for me to compensate for.
It’s not the prop difference or turbo nonsense that makes a Bonanza go like it should, it’s the removal of cowl flaps and huge gaping holes in the cowl inlet, their Stone Age technology. You can get 180 kts cruise in this plane with the Blackwell carbon nose bowl conversion.
G, day Scott from Sydney, Australia.
* I'm surprised at the 3 kts drop in cruise. 'It looks like it a faster prop'.
* pilots need to wear headsets: so volume?
* generates more thrust, quicker rate of climb and v1 on the runway.
* I cannot comprehend why a two-blade (black mack) is higher IAS in the gauge (3kts).
* I like the lighting in your hanger, sir
Take care, have fun🇦🇺🌏
John- I predicted a 3 knot deficit in cruise for the MT 3 Blade, it turned out to be 2 knots. ANR headsets are a tremendous technological advance!! This MT does generate more thrust... you can feel it on brake release! The 2 Blade is more efficient in cruise primarily because it has less drag.... the most efficient prop is a one blade... but it is impractical for several reasons. Thanks, I like a lot of light! I'm having fun, even if I'm not smiling;) Thanks for watching!
Wonder about the difference between my three-blade McCauley and the MT. Blade length 2-blade vs the MT may have much to do with the improvement in noise.
So overall the 2 blade is good when up to speed but the 3 blades got the tq and balls to pull out of something.
So just initial bite is all you’re getting from a start on the 3 blade.
Pretty much.. at least with the two props I compared. A lot of STCs out there won't allow a two blade on a IO-550 engine. Including mine. These tests were done with an IO-520 before I upgraded to the 550.
@@FlyWirescottperdue guessing the load is to high on a 2 blade. Hence the 3 blade to cut down deflection by shortening them and distributing the load between 3 instead of 2.
With almost equal cruise performance
I TOTALLY dig your paint scheme, mainly the wing! Love it!
Thanks, it's pretty cool! A special airplane!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Is yours the aerobatic version?
I've got an N3 Pup, impressive, huh?
& if I ever repainted it (and NOT use house paint...good god, that should be a crime against humanity, me thinks), it would have either strips (bomb burst) or classic scallops on the wing. Probably the scallops, like some of the Monocoupes had.
SPeaking of Pups...need to order some bolts, nuts, and gas cap gaskets
@@cluelessbeekeeping1322 It is aerobatic and I put checkers on as well as the starburst. Fun!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Oh-Baby! YA! If I bought a Beechcraft...it would be YOUR model!
@@cluelessbeekeeping1322 There are a few out there that come up for sale every now and again.
Take off in very different time of the day. Did you check the air temperature and barometric pressure on both cases?
LM- I sure did, and even reflew the MT profile the next morning in exactly the same conditions.
great vid, try lower RPMS on the MT prop, my Cessna 182 really performed at 2350rpm
It's on my list, wanted a apples to apples comparison.
So which prop stayed on your plane?
MT
Great looking prop Scott
Thanks, it has a neat whistle at idle... you can kinda hear it as it taxis by on the runway.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Scott do you know the weight difference between the Hartzell SS and your MT?
@@dobedad75 Jeff what is the weight of the Hartzell?
@@FlyWirescottperdue it’s quoted at 80 lbs prop and spinner, my 3 bladed McCauley is at 70. I actually appreciate the weight increases as it helps with my CG. But that MT looks great!! And nickel leading edges are awesome
@@dobedad75 Jeff the MTV9 is 59.5lb with the spinner.
Boom!
Thanks Arthur!
Always interesting to compare 2 and 3 blade props, especially when an MT is involved.
The German detail of MT indexing the spinner and spinner supports behind each numbered blade impressed me. I suspect they did a balance of some sort at the factory, because the inside of the spinner is referenced to the Nr 1 blade.
I like TAS, but with my 185 operating off 1400’ at high DA’s, along with Idaho flying, the improved takeoff distance and time to climb of the MT is a real plus. I checked TAS with the TAS feature of the Garmin G5’s. The difference was imperceptible to nil compared with the 2-blade, 86” Mac. My wife can’t believe how much quieter the MT is.
Did you weight the Mac and backing plate? I saved 14# actual weight.
Thanks Manny. I did weigh it and redo the W&B. The 2 blade MT made a big difference on my Skywagon.
@@FlyWirescottperdue MT has a SB 36 R3 that specifies approved engine oils to be used with their props. A client of mine was using AS 15W50, which wasn’t on the list. He had to change to Phillips 20W50. Interesting, eh?
@@mannypuerta5086 That is interesting. I switched to Phillips awhile back and am happy with it.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I’ve been using Phillips 20W50 with Cam Guard since 2007 with great results. Original factory cylinders with over 1500 hours.
Wow interesting stuff. I'd of thought that the 3 blade would have given you a bigger advantage.
I've done this before and had a significant improvement. The 2A37C223 prop is just a very good 2 blade!
Will the 3 bladed prop (which also seems to have a wider chord) put a greater stress on the engine over time?
Thanks Chuck. 2 or 3 Blade stress depends on vibration. My suggestion is to do a prop balance every so often.
Scott, if I were a bird which prop would I rather strike? Or, if I were a 14-lb Canada goose, which prop would you rather be flying? These are serious questions, so we need some careful thought on this. 🤔
Indeed a serious question. I don't think much would survive a 14lb Canada Goose. Perhaps the MT... good question.
I clicked every where ...... Great comparison with real life data would love to know how the fuel goes after some long trips ex...
Looking forward to trying it out! Will keep everyone posted.
Hyou
Exciting watching two chubby old men.
George, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Are you buying lunch?
I bet the cooler air helped out the 3 bladed prop.
I redid the test at the exact same temperature and got similar results, the temp difference was not large.