add the following statement "if a unit is within your flow of magic ranged and melee weapons get the [psychic] keyword" into the det rule and it's basically fixed
This detachment can be summed up as the Daniel and cooler Daniel meme but we had cooler Daniel already with the index detachment. I'm just most disappointed this doesn't encourage a different playstyle and doesn't benefit you if you're behind.
If they'd put "Prosperine Kopeshes and Tzaangor Blades count as psychic weapons in this detachment." the whole thing would look better. It'd have an identity. You'd get what it was good for. The detachment rule would be doing something (not something great, but those units would be slightly better). And they're the exact models that come in the underwhelming combat patrol. It's almost like it got edited out or something. Like it should be there, but it's not. Maybe the Internet grot stole a sentence or something?
Hey, you could buy a TSons combat patrol (don't), and all 26 models would be supported by free detachment rules. Like, you wouldn't feel cheated or lied to, if there's side-grade powerfists and lotsa super-power melee weapons, and several options for awesome mega-flamers going around. Whole patrol, then buy more mini's once you've seen the Internet. Do GW know about marketing?
I think they will keep that for the TS codex. You wouldn't like to have your playable detachment split between a codex and other media. Hence I expect all grotmass detachment to be a kind of joke.
The should of pulled a Daemons and made it so that Psyker characters generate a 6 inch bubble of flow of magic around them. That would of fixed some of the issues.
Similar to what someone else said, whoever was over this detachment's creation has clearly never played or even looked over any of the Thousand Sons datasheets. Most of what this detachment gives is covered by one character or another. Running ahriman and/or Magnus cancels out the main section not to mention the rubric marines can just do that naturally. MVB is preferable to keep for much greater ritual distance.
I can see a use case for necrolith mantle for a terminator sorcerer in a scab unit since will let you use the full punch of the flow stratagems like the retreat shoot and charge. With the 6" deepstrike, the lack of charge sucks but it does mean you got more freedom for backline deepstrikes as youll have less area denied to you for where you drop
Can't reroll wounds in FOM with empowered manifestation. Only get the additional 6" whilein FOM, which then forces you to make +1 to wound with SOTs only hit rerolls, lethal hits, and (if inside FOM) +1 to wound and the extra 6" range
Being optimistic, perhaps the codex has a lot more psychic attacks and weapons in it? And it's just that the pro rules writers forgot they were writing for the index...
As an aside, while I generally think moving Daemons into the mono-god CSM books is ultimately a positive change, I can't help but think how this is how GW avoids adding any _actual_ new units to these already small armies. They don't need to add new units (much less new model kits) to fill in holes in the range, if they just combine units from two different armies together.
man as a thousand sons player, this detachment sucks lol I was thinking that there was gonna be more to it but yea.. cult of magic is what i will stick to.
Correct me if I'm wrong but less say I have a unit of 5 Rubrics with Bolters/SRC, during my turn I move them to be wholly outside my Flow of Magic but I keep the Infernal Master & Aspiring Sorcerer wholly within the Flow of Magic zone. I would get the +1 to Wound for my Infernal Master & Aspiring Sorcerer, along with the Reroll wounds (bc of the Rubrics Marines) so wouldn't that be the strategy to do? To slowly move forward...
@nintendo_ruler Each time a Thousand Sons model from your army makes a Psychic Attack, re‑roll a Wound roll of 1. If such a model is wholly within your army’s Flow of Magic, each time it makes a Psychic Attack, add 1 to the Wound roll instead. But the Detachment rule is based off model not unit.
Not sure if this is a common interpretation, but I'm pretty sure how the always in flow enhancement is worded ends up making it not work correctly with the 6" deep strike. Cause they don't count in flow while not on battlefield, and the strat checks for the battlefield state.... It would be like saying belakor can deep strike 6" away cause he gives himself shadow of chaos
I agree with everything as you said as. Tsons player, from our army already being exspensive because of the index detachment and this detachment only affecting pychic weapons. Even if you are running Magnus with this detachment you are losing the Ignore damage strat and full re-rolls from cult of magic which has single handily won games for me using those on Magnus. I would only use this detachment if i wasn’t running magnus.
Just to say you can give magnus stiky objective, also you can just put magnus on point with all the movement he has and give him cover and stealth +the -1 damage makes him almost unkillable
also fallback shoot and charge with magnus for 1 cp, and sniping with 40" rituals from your deployment with a mutalith beast and a psyker with the enhancement
@@lorenzobaglioni9647Stealth on magnus is ok at best if your opponent has lethal hits or dev wounds it won’t matter it’s better to have the blank a save strat from cult of magic against something that does D6 damage. Also you don’t need to fall back with magnus he hits on 2s always and can still shoot and do rituals cuz he’s a monster, I wouldn’t trade any of what’s in this new detachment for the index’s Dev wounds on psychic attacks especially if I’m bringing Magnus or the strategems like full re-rolls
@@eshsavage6784 fallback shoot and charging another unit is still really powerfull, one of magnus attaks has blast so ypu have to schose another target, the strat saves you a -1 to hit, and charging gives you priority in combat if you need it. Ofc this one is weaker cult of magic is probably one of the best detatch in the game, it's a fun more skirmish alternative that's a bit mir triky to pilot. just experiment with it man, have fun!!!
Less is more when it comes to games. They could've just made a detachment that gives every unit deepstrike. Everyone is popping out of portals like in Space Marine 2
Let me talk out of my ass for a second like I know what I’m saying which I don’t because I’ve never played competitively nor have I ever played using or against TSons. I think while it definitely lends to a “win more” ability, I think some armies lend well to winning from behind/taking the game back and some lend to leading the pace and forcing the enemy to play into them. Example, I play Drukhari and we play the outskirts burning shit off objectives and playing for secondaries, essentially feeling like its playing from behind. It seems like the direction of this detachment is to take ground early and keep that ground. So for example holding the midboard and making it really hard for the enemy to take it back. Helping you “win harder” in this case is keep the midboard which could totally be a valid game plan because the game state changes and so you want to “win harder” and make that lead harder to lose if that makes sense.
@BushSage the problem is that Ksons are bad at taking ground early, bad at holding ground and this detachment doesn't do much to help with that. It also makes it so if the opponent does retake ground, most of your army no longer has a detachment ability. Granted, said ability only really effects 1/5th of your army in the first place.
On one hand, the way the army rule works means ANY detachment that doesn't involve loading up on Cabal Points is going to work at cross purposes with the army's base mechanic. Therefore, it was always going to be looked at unfavorably. That said, it's really weird to see that Thousand Sons had a very narrow listbuilding formula, and decided to double down on it in every way. Don't multiple detachments exist to encourage different playstyles? Like, imagine if you had, say, a Tzaangors detachment, that allowed your little bird-goat people generate Cabal Points? Now, you're synergizing with the army rule, but allow players to run things _besides_ character spam.
Hexwarp Thrallband Detachment does not work for the simple reason that it requires the TS player to expose his troops to capture objectives and with their T4 and 2 Wounds they are not tough enough to survive.
Yeah kinda rough but to be fair T Sons are already pretty powerful. They finally got them down to the “fair” balance point in the game. I’m sure they didn’t want to undo all that with a FREE detachment. Gotta wait for that codex to get the crazy stuff!
Ehhhh after our last nerfs we are really on a razors edge. Good if played perfectly, bad if you make mistakes. I’m pretty sure this is getting us ready for a massive codex rework.
I'd guess that this Is written with the Codex in mind at this point since it's been like 2 years. But even still it's not the worst thing ever. Your Daemon Prince is now a baby Magnus at Strength 10 and +1 to wound, your Scarab Sorc gets extra attacks with good Anti-Vehicle Damage, your Psycher models in general can punch up to bridge the gap in T.Sons lack of high strength. Plus on a casual level idgaf what anyone says, Tzaangors being lead by a Shaman are nuts for their points. They're running around with 20 power swords and noone ever talks about it. Thus getting them to fight on death is very nice. People got too much of the competitive mindset.
Their codex is probably due in the next 6 or so months why they gonna give you the good ones then you have nothing to pay for when they want to sell the book
Empowered manifestation actively maoes the thousand sons sorcerer wnd winged demon prince _worse_ and gives nothing in return. Yeh sure ill pay 20pts to expand my lone op bubble 😅
Last I checked 24 of 26 factions win rates are between 45-54%. And all but 2 have won an event since the last dataslate. So what in your eyes counts as a "basic sense of balance"?
This is only disappointing from a competitive pov. It's not great but it gives tsons access to mechanics that every other faction has and tsons don't. I think it shows that GW have a better handle.on what's lacking in the faction, then I'd have thought.
I literally think the nay saying is so overblown, every strat is fucking sick, and if it were a general space marines army I would be stoked lol. Aren't the datasheets just good in Tsons?
@@rike889 in any other army the rules and strats are excellent. For tsons a lot of the detachment rules are redundant, counter-synergistic and encourage a play style that datasheets do not support.
add the following statement "if a unit is within your flow of magic ranged and melee weapons get the [psychic] keyword" into the det rule and it's basically fixed
i feel pretty certain that whoever wrote this detachment has never actually read a thousand sons datasheet lol
or they look at the codex and T.S are going to be broken again because all weapon even bolters are psychic
They probably forget that the Strat that makes a lot of guns psychic gets removed by playing this
We already used all good ideas for the codex: The Detachment
This detachment can be summed up as the Daniel and cooler Daniel meme but we had cooler Daniel already with the index detachment. I'm just most disappointed this doesn't encourage a different playstyle and doesn't benefit you if you're behind.
Think about this post codex if they roll tzeentch deamons into tsons. It becomes much more relevant. This is the deamons detachment for tsons.
Deamons don't get benefits ethier....the deamons we already have do not do any more in this detachment
I don't want to play demons though. I want to play thousand sons
If they'd put "Prosperine Kopeshes and Tzaangor Blades count as psychic weapons in this detachment." the whole thing would look better. It'd have an identity. You'd get what it was good for. The detachment rule would be doing something (not something great, but those units would be slightly better). And they're the exact models that come in the underwhelming combat patrol.
It's almost like it got edited out or something. Like it should be there, but it's not.
Maybe the Internet grot stole a sentence or something?
Hey, you could buy a TSons combat patrol (don't), and all 26 models would be supported by free detachment rules. Like, you wouldn't feel cheated or lied to, if there's side-grade powerfists and lotsa super-power melee weapons, and several options for awesome mega-flamers going around.
Whole patrol, then buy more mini's once you've seen the Internet.
Do GW know about marketing?
then it would immediately destroy any excitement when the 6" DS terminator strat forbids you to make a charge -_-
Poorhammer rant confirmed.
I honestly think a Tzaangor detachment would have been better. At least it would be a different way to play the army.
I think they will keep that for the TS codex. You wouldn't like to have your playable detachment split between a codex and other media. Hence I expect all grotmass detachment to be a kind of joke.
Anything but tzaangors
@@julientabulazero103the ad mech and necrons detachments would like a word with that idea
I was fearing a Tzaangor detachment and now I’m wishing we got that instead
@@ryza7760 i agree. I am pleasantly surprised.
The should of pulled a Daemons and made it so that Psyker characters generate a 6 inch bubble of flow of magic around them. That would of fixed some of the issues.
Or at least Magnus
Scarab occults get a lot of nice support in this detachment. The only real tradeoff for them is the one thing that makes them good.
Don't forget how wonderful the re roll 1 to wound overlaps with rubrics base ability
Similar to what someone else said, whoever was over this detachment's creation has clearly never played or even looked over any of the Thousand Sons datasheets. Most of what this detachment gives is covered by one character or another. Running ahriman and/or Magnus cancels out the main section not to mention the rubric marines can just do that naturally. MVB is preferable to keep for much greater ritual distance.
After the warriors with battleline keyword OC3 3W 5+invul this detachment feels like an honest insult.
I can see a use case for necrolith mantle for a terminator sorcerer in a scab unit since will let you use the full punch of the flow stratagems like the retreat shoot and charge. With the 6" deepstrike, the lack of charge sucks but it does mean you got more freedom for backline deepstrikes as youll have less area denied to you for where you drop
This detatchment would be great for Grey Knights.
Tsons codex is so strong they get an annihilation legion mixed with canoptek court (necrons 2 worst detachments) grotsmas gift. Basically lump of coal
I fear what the Codex has in it.
might get demons of tzeentch souped in
We know what's in there... Tzaangors, my friend. Tzaangors. 😂
I play custodes and dark angels, I expect nothing from getting a book at this point
@@Grpace7 you got winning coexes
Let's go another dark Angels/admech level codex 😭
As a Chaos Player, I love this Detachment. 😀 Nurgle Bless!!! 🎉
Can't reroll wounds in FOM with empowered manifestation. Only get the additional 6" whilein FOM, which then forces you to make +1 to wound with SOTs only hit rerolls, lethal hits, and (if inside FOM) +1 to wound and the extra 6" range
If you wanted a Tzangor detachment that bad, you had only to ask
Being optimistic, perhaps the codex has a lot more psychic attacks and weapons in it? And it's just that the pro rules writers forgot they were writing for the index...
Maybe... with the tzeenth daemons roster once it is transfered to codex TS?
As an aside, while I generally think moving Daemons into the mono-god CSM books is ultimately a positive change, I can't help but think how this is how GW avoids adding any _actual_ new units to these already small armies. They don't need to add new units (much less new model kits) to fill in holes in the range, if they just combine units from two different armies together.
GW trying to make a detachment with one of the biggest fail of the edition: psychic stuffs XD
Worse, a *second* detatchment with one of the biggest fails this edition.
man as a thousand sons player, this detachment sucks lol I was thinking that there was gonna be more to it but yea.. cult of magic is what i will stick to.
I like the Mr. Plinkett reference
they fr gave em a detachment that only buffs psychic weapons but didnt give them the strat to make all of a squads weapons psychic for a phase.
Correct me if I'm wrong but less say I have a unit of 5 Rubrics with Bolters/SRC, during my turn I move them to be wholly outside my Flow of Magic but I keep the Infernal Master & Aspiring Sorcerer wholly within the Flow of Magic zone. I would get the +1 to Wound for my Infernal Master & Aspiring Sorcerer, along with the Reroll wounds (bc of the Rubrics Marines) so wouldn't that be the strategy to do? To slowly move forward...
They count as 1 unit, they only count a separate when dead
@nintendo_ruler Each time a Thousand Sons model from
your army makes a Psychic Attack, re‑roll
a Wound roll of 1. If such a model is
wholly within your army’s Flow of Magic,
each time it makes a Psychic Attack, add
1 to the Wound roll instead.
But the Detachment rule is based off model not unit.
1k sons always get the short end of the stick while Necrons get op ish everytime
Chaos Knights will double down on battle shock tests and limit one wardog per big knights.
Please no. That's the only other army I play...
Sounds like it might syngergise with the reworked army rule in the codex? But I don't really think they think that far ahead.
Just wait, admech’s gonna make this stuff look like a fucking Nobel Prize winning thesis.
Lol.
The duncrawler only can walk through buildings
Never doubt how well GW can surprise you. It could and very likely be worse.
Bet u feel real dumb now
@@Wes-xk6hl not in the least, I am pleasantly surprised they got one right.
If there was ever an indication of sweeping changes coming in a codex...
Yes, I'm coping. That doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Maybe this will make more sense with the balancing that's coming? It's neat in theory, it just doesn't work right now...
Not sure if this is a common interpretation, but I'm pretty sure how the always in flow enhancement is worded ends up making it not work correctly with the 6" deep strike.
Cause they don't count in flow while not on battlefield, and the strat checks for the battlefield state.... It would be like saying belakor can deep strike 6" away cause he gives himself shadow of chaos
First whiff, hopefully we don't keep getting grotcoal for the rest of the month
Wouldn’t Magnus and this stack? So if a unit had -1 to wound you’d have +2 to wound and it would make you still +1?
It is pretty funny how much GW apparently hates TSons
Little Mr. Harry S Plinket action here.
Just a clarification, it is *MODELS* wholly within your flow of magic. Not units. Small distinction, but semi-important.
I agree with everything as you said as. Tsons player, from our army already being exspensive because of the index detachment and this detachment only affecting pychic weapons. Even if you are running Magnus with this detachment you are losing the Ignore damage strat and full re-rolls from cult of magic which has single handily won games for me using those on Magnus. I would only use this detachment if i wasn’t running magnus.
Aka you're crutch of Magnus needs a point boost.
Just to say you can give magnus stiky objective, also you can just put magnus on point with all the movement he has and give him cover and stealth +the -1 damage makes him almost unkillable
also fallback shoot and charge with magnus for 1 cp, and sniping with 40" rituals from your deployment with a mutalith beast and a psyker with the enhancement
@@lorenzobaglioni9647Stealth on magnus is ok at best if your opponent has lethal hits or dev wounds it won’t matter it’s better to have the blank a save strat from cult of magic against something that does D6 damage. Also you don’t need to fall back with magnus he hits on 2s always and can still shoot and do rituals cuz he’s a monster, I wouldn’t trade any of what’s in this new detachment for the index’s Dev wounds on psychic attacks especially if I’m bringing Magnus or the strategems like full re-rolls
@@eshsavage6784 fallback shoot and charging another unit is still really powerfull, one of magnus attaks has blast so ypu have to schose another target, the strat saves you a -1 to hit, and charging gives you priority in combat if you need it. Ofc this one is weaker cult of magic is probably one of the best detatch in the game, it's a fun more skirmish alternative that's a bit mir triky to pilot. just experiment with it man, have fun!!!
Hot take but I think this attachment is designed not to incorporate magnus, the red.
I am worried about the guard one.
# Magnus Did Something Questionable!!!!
Less is more when it comes to games. They could've just made a detachment that gives every unit deepstrike. Everyone is popping out of portals like in Space Marine 2
The thing I really hate about this is that it only works if you are winning. The ability doesn't help you win, it only makes you win harder.
Let me talk out of my ass for a second like I know what I’m saying which I don’t because I’ve never played competitively nor have I ever played using or against TSons.
I think while it definitely lends to a “win more” ability, I think some armies lend well to winning from behind/taking the game back and some lend to leading the pace and forcing the enemy to play into them.
Example, I play Drukhari and we play the outskirts burning shit off objectives and playing for secondaries, essentially feeling like its playing from behind.
It seems like the direction of this detachment is to take ground early and keep that ground. So for example holding the midboard and making it really hard for the enemy to take it back.
Helping you “win harder” in this case is keep the midboard which could totally be a valid game plan because the game state changes and so you want to “win harder” and make that lead harder to lose if that makes sense.
@BushSage the problem is that Ksons are bad at taking ground early, bad at holding ground and this detachment doesn't do much to help with that. It also makes it so if the opponent does retake ground, most of your army no longer has a detachment ability. Granted, said ability only really effects 1/5th of your army in the first place.
If TSons codex gives them more psychic weapons, this could be good. This detachment is a mess, though...
On one hand, the way the army rule works means ANY detachment that doesn't involve loading up on Cabal Points is going to work at cross purposes with the army's base mechanic. Therefore, it was always going to be looked at unfavorably.
That said, it's really weird to see that Thousand Sons had a very narrow listbuilding formula, and decided to double down on it in every way. Don't multiple detachments exist to encourage different playstyles?
Like, imagine if you had, say, a Tzaangors detachment, that allowed your little bird-goat people generate Cabal Points? Now, you're synergizing with the army rule, but allow players to run things _besides_ character spam.
Hexwarp Thrallband Detachment does not work for the simple reason that it requires the TS player to expose his troops to capture objectives and with their T4 and 2 Wounds they are not tough enough to survive.
tson lack of high strength ranged weapon compensate w/ devas wound, the only good about this detachment is sticky obj haha
Yeah kinda rough but to be fair T Sons are already pretty powerful. They finally got them down to the “fair” balance point in the game. I’m sure they didn’t want to undo all that with a FREE detachment. Gotta wait for that codex to get the crazy stuff!
Perhaps this detachment will make sense after balance Dataslate
@@dawidkazmierczak7283 Or maybe when new models drop
@ good point
Ehhhh after our last nerfs we are really on a razors edge. Good if played perfectly, bad if you make mistakes.
I’m pretty sure this is getting us ready for a massive codex rework.
@ which will probably drop at the end of the edition tbh
Apparently the grotmas detachments are the ones that were not good enuff to put in the codex😂
I'd guess that this Is written with the Codex in mind at this point since it's been like 2 years.
But even still it's not the worst thing ever. Your Daemon Prince is now a baby Magnus at Strength 10 and +1 to wound, your Scarab Sorc gets extra attacks with good Anti-Vehicle Damage, your Psycher models in general can punch up to bridge the gap in T.Sons lack of high strength.
Plus on a casual level idgaf what anyone says, Tzaangors being lead by a Shaman are nuts for their points. They're running around with 20 power swords and noone ever talks about it. Thus getting them to fight on death is very nice.
People got too much of the competitive mindset.
Theyve had their fun
Still better than exploration manipul from admech.
Don't worry, GKs havent had theirs yet
I mean… daemon prince the army? Some zan’zan troops… ya.
Yeah this was really disappointing, anti synergy with most everything n the faction but hey you can deepstrike rubics?
I am one of the insanely rare non-Magnus thousand sons players, and this detachment excites me
Their codex is probably due in the next 6 or so months why they gonna give you the good ones then you have nothing to pay for when they want to sell the book
So inky is a boy?
Subsharing in the name of Tzeench
but... but.... but......😢😢😢
Empowered manifestation actively maoes the thousand sons sorcerer wnd winged demon prince _worse_ and gives nothing in return. Yeh sure ill pay 20pts to expand my lone op bubble 😅
It is a sad day to have done nothing wrong.
Warding Hex works in any command phase.
Also, the eggnog was strong, eh?
It's incredible that 40k has so many rules but still can't foster even the most basic sense of depth or balance
Last I checked 24 of 26 factions win rates are between 45-54%. And all but 2 have won an event since the last dataslate. So what in your eyes counts as a "basic sense of balance"?
It's incredible how much actual bullshit people spew about 40k to try and rationalise their subjective dislikes.
calling it right now. all the space marine detatchments coming out are gonna be dog shit.
Its model by model not the whole unit. Also its the best detatchment released so far.
Yeah this dude is cooked by "competition" lists.
This detachment is good if you don't have Magnus or refuse to rely on Magnus.
@spacemanx9595 or want to win with a tsons army in an even remotely competitive game
its not ment for tournaments
The Tau will be all about assault rolls
Necrons will be all about units at 1/2 strength
Orks will be all about aircraft units.
See... Balance exists
only disappointing because the index was chronically OP
Imagine playing 40k for fun instead of trying to win with easy mode rules.
Winning *is* fun
If it makes you feel better, the AdMech one will find some way to be worse
Foolish
This is only disappointing from a competitive pov. It's not great but it gives tsons access to mechanics that every other faction has and tsons don't. I think it shows that GW have a better handle.on what's lacking in the faction, then I'd have thought.
The most disappointing detachment since my shoulder subluxated
I literally think the nay saying is so overblown, every strat is fucking sick, and if it were a general space marines army I would be stoked lol. Aren't the datasheets just good in Tsons?
@@rike889 in any other army the rules and strats are excellent. For tsons a lot of the detachment rules are redundant, counter-synergistic and encourage a play style that datasheets do not support.
Add a comment...😢
I think this is copied from codex. It is going to change a lot of units. Me thinks.
Still better than a Tzaangor detachment 😂