This is a very honest approach, and I appreciate that you emphasize that this is your own personal experience. Differences between transparent solid-state gear are indeed very subtle, and how audible they are depends heavily on your headphones and your experience with different source gear. Ultimately what matters is whether or not it changes anything about your listening experience that would make you happy to own that piece of equipment over what you had. If you find your overall experience with the O2/SDAC to be the same as with the Burson, and aren't able to identify differences between the 2 in a side-by-side comparison consistently and confidently, then you're right to just leave it at that. Highly resolving headphones are definitely better able to reveal differences between different sources, and as you build up experience with different gear you'll gradually start to pick up on different cues where differences come to light. As you discover more cues, you'll start to hear consistent patterns, and that's when you'll grow more confident about what you'll be hearing. In my case, I've done some blind tests to test my confidence and have succeeded to pass blind tests, but it requires familiar source gear, headphones and specifically chosen snippets in certain test tracks for me to get flawless scores in a blind test between solid-state source gear. It's still so subtle that it's definitely more than fair to say those differences are too insignificant to be worth spending so much money on, but I can only encourage anyone to remain open-minded about this, and don't just assume conclusions. If you own an HD 800S with a THX 789 for example, you might think that's all you'd ever need, but what I found (from my own personal experience) is that the 789 stimulates listening fatigue with the HD 800S noticeably more than other solid-state amps. This could easily justify to upgrade/replace their amp for some people, but others may not notice this fatigue at all. That could be the case if their listening volume levels are quieter than others, for example. You'd have to get into high-end headphones and find a pair you're truly satisfied with before getting into high-end source gear starts to make sense at all. Or get into tubes. Or both. Purchasing high-end source gear for mid-fi headphones is in a way kinda like purchasing SLI RTX 2080 TI's for your gaming PC when you have a 60Hz 1080P monitor.
Well, I think he has the HD650. If everyone says that headphone 'scales up really well with better gear', then why isn't that happening when he scales up from O2 to Conductor?
To be fair gear that's meant to sound transparent, you reach a point at which the differences between them are just so tiny its imperceptible. At that point is becomes about features, user experience and aesthetics, so I'm sure there's a market for this unit. Moving past that point maybe when you hit multi kilobuck headphones and you want to get the last remaining bits of those diminishing returns out of your headphones it can be worth spending vastly more.
Its hard to call whether or not differences have been heard when you are so fully aware of how fallible and short-term auditory memory is and how important volume matching is. Those who say they can hear differences in non controlled tests are not to be trusted. And I don't trust my own ears enough to make a definitive call. Its a shame I didn't have a switcher box at the time of this review, maybe I could have been more able to discern any differences, although that would have been hard to do in a proper scientific controlled manner. I think personally I would have to conclude that if one requires a switcher box to tell any differences then it doesn't really matter. With that said if someone feels they can hear any differences, imagined or real, then to them that's all that matters. Psychoacoustics are a big part of audio, who is to say that what one person hears is any less valid than another's. I hedge on making a call on differences between sources because so far, I've yet to hear anything that was so obviously different, inferior, superior. The only differences I've ever heard are so tiny, so small, that they leave me asking, is this real or am I imagining it? I conclude that if those differences are that small, they are basically irrelevant.
Your review is a breath of fresh air vs all the hyped up reviewers with golden ears. I have a few desktop favs and amps and many high end headphones. There are such big differences between headphones that any difference a particular Amp or Dac may make is very much in the fine margins. The main use case for the Burson is likely in the very hard to drive high impedance headphones. I recently bought a nice little O2+SDAC used for the price of a few coffees at Starbucks and am impressed at what it delivers vs my much more expensive equipment.
@@ozcozfozc Here's email quote from Burson: "Regarding that flickering icon, that's part of the design and there is a perfect reason why it is there. The C3-Ref is programmed to display the incoming signal sample rate accurately. The incoming audio signal can be anything from 44khz to 768khz and from DSD16 to DSD512. These changes happen from one song to another and sometimes it can change within one song. To ensure accuracy, the C3-Reference resamples the incoming signal every few seconds. In that moment of resampling, you get this little blink from the icon. "
I am using the Burson composer 3x dac paired with a Topping a90 headphone amplifier using a MacBook pro as a source. For the Burson the MacBook says that the selected device has no volume control. I have tried several methods found on MacBook forums to solve the problem. I am exchanging emails with Burson Audio. HELP!
You should not be changing the volume with your computer when using a dac/amp(which is what it sounds like you're trying to do, 10 months ago at least)
I wouldn't waste your time...nobody can tell the difference between any of them(or even the majority of decent dacs/amp for that matter) in a blind test.
Great review and overview of the product! If I was guessing I would suggest that you could not audibly hear the difference between the amps/source gear as you're potentially limited by your headphones. The headphones you listed may not scale that well as you move up the value stream of source gear. I have the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Audeze LCDX & 3F, and Klipsch HP3s... I'm part of a headfi tour and will be getting a week with the Burson 3XP in October so will report back... I have a Phonitor E, Schiit Lyr, Mono Liquid platinum to benchmark them against. We'll see how it goes!
We know what the conclusion is even if you're too polite to say it: if a unit costs many multiple times more than another one yet sounds identical there's no way it's worth it.
Whilst I do have an Ananda now, I didn't at the time. Certainly don't have any of the more expensive stuff you mentioned, way beyond the budget focus of this channel. Tbh I wanted Burson to send something more price appropriate to this channel but this is what they sent.
I have a Monorpice THX 788 all in one DAC/amp which has more features than this (no Bluetooth). I got it on sale for $475 IIRC. The sound is clean as you’d expect and has plenty of power. Good on you for sticking to your guns, differences in solid state gear shouldn’t really be audible (all things remaining the same).
Do you have any experience with the Arya Stealth? I’m about to pull the trigger and buy a pair, but I’ve seen quite a few people say that even the Stealth really shine with a Class A amp and I have a Thx 788 myself and was curious if it would even make a noticeable difference upgrading to a Class A.
My hair is getting to be a right mess. When was the last time you had a haircut? #hatlife
Evolution to the rescue I am bald
Back in February, bloody hairdressers still closed.
Its been about 18 weeks for me, first week of March I think it was. I'm close to buying a pair of clippers and just shaving it off.
Two weeks. Salons and barbershops are open in my area. Limited customers, social distancing, and masks rules are in place.
My wife cuts mine with clippers. Hair is overrated 😛
Respect for admitting you couldn't tell the difference
This is a very honest approach, and I appreciate that you emphasize that this is your own personal experience. Differences between transparent solid-state gear are indeed very subtle, and how audible they are depends heavily on your headphones and your experience with different source gear. Ultimately what matters is whether or not it changes anything about your listening experience that would make you happy to own that piece of equipment over what you had. If you find your overall experience with the O2/SDAC to be the same as with the Burson, and aren't able to identify differences between the 2 in a side-by-side comparison consistently and confidently, then you're right to just leave it at that.
Highly resolving headphones are definitely better able to reveal differences between different sources, and as you build up experience with different gear you'll gradually start to pick up on different cues where differences come to light. As you discover more cues, you'll start to hear consistent patterns, and that's when you'll grow more confident about what you'll be hearing. In my case, I've done some blind tests to test my confidence and have succeeded to pass blind tests, but it requires familiar source gear, headphones and specifically chosen snippets in certain test tracks for me to get flawless scores in a blind test between solid-state source gear.
It's still so subtle that it's definitely more than fair to say those differences are too insignificant to be worth spending so much money on, but I can only encourage anyone to remain open-minded about this, and don't just assume conclusions. If you own an HD 800S with a THX 789 for example, you might think that's all you'd ever need, but what I found (from my own personal experience) is that the 789 stimulates listening fatigue with the HD 800S noticeably more than other solid-state amps. This could easily justify to upgrade/replace their amp for some people, but others may not notice this fatigue at all. That could be the case if their listening volume levels are quieter than others, for example.
You'd have to get into high-end headphones and find a pair you're truly satisfied with before getting into high-end source gear starts to make sense at all. Or get into tubes. Or both. Purchasing high-end source gear for mid-fi headphones is in a way kinda like purchasing SLI RTX 2080 TI's for your gaming PC when you have a 60Hz 1080P monitor.
sir, pardon my french but allow me to say you have balls of steel. respect!
I cannot tell the difference as well. Me using Soloist 3XP with a/b with cheaper amp with the same dac.
Very genuine, was not expecting the conclusion. subscribed
Awesome review. Honesty is best. What I take away from this, is that the differences might become apparent with higher end gear.
Well, I think he has the HD650. If everyone says that headphone 'scales up really well with better gear', then why isn't that happening when he scales up from O2 to Conductor?
To be fair gear that's meant to sound transparent, you reach a point at which the differences between them are just so tiny its imperceptible. At that point is becomes about features, user experience and aesthetics, so I'm sure there's a market for this unit. Moving past that point maybe when you hit multi kilobuck headphones and you want to get the last remaining bits of those diminishing returns out of your headphones it can be worth spending vastly more.
No diffenence between the Burson and the O2 even with the 600ohm Beyer?
Also no difference between Skoda & Mercedes both drive forward :)
Its hard to call whether or not differences have been heard when you are so fully aware of how fallible and short-term auditory memory is and how important volume matching is. Those who say they can hear differences in non controlled tests are not to be trusted. And I don't trust my own ears enough to make a definitive call. Its a shame I didn't have a switcher box at the time of this review, maybe I could have been more able to discern any differences, although that would have been hard to do in a proper scientific controlled manner. I think personally I would have to conclude that if one requires a switcher box to tell any differences then it doesn't really matter. With that said if someone feels they can hear any differences, imagined or real, then to them that's all that matters. Psychoacoustics are a big part of audio, who is to say that what one person hears is any less valid than another's. I hedge on making a call on differences between sources because so far, I've yet to hear anything that was so obviously different, inferior, superior. The only differences I've ever heard are so tiny, so small, that they leave me asking, is this real or am I imagining it? I conclude that if those differences are that small, they are basically irrelevant.
@@maclock101and both a Skoda and Merc are unreliable shitboxes😂
Your review is a breath of fresh air vs all the hyped up reviewers with golden ears. I have a few desktop favs and amps and many high end headphones. There are such big differences between headphones that any difference a particular Amp or Dac may make is very much in the fine margins. The main use case for the Burson is likely in the very hard to drive high impedance headphones. I recently bought a nice little O2+SDAC used for the price of a few coffees at Starbucks and am impressed at what it delivers vs my much more expensive equipment.
Really no difference between C3x (class A amp) and O2 on 6xx?
Does anyone have a flickering problem with the PCM icon? Only USB is attached. Normal?
Yea mine unit does that too, even the one in the video if you look closely
Just confirmed with Burson, it’s normal 👍😬
@@alfredtolentino8614 have they told you why its normal tho?
@@ozcozfozc Here's email quote from Burson:
"Regarding that flickering icon, that's part of the design and there is a perfect reason why it is there. The C3-Ref is programmed to display the incoming signal sample rate accurately. The incoming audio signal can be anything from 44khz to 768khz and from DSD16 to DSD512. These changes happen from one song to another and sometimes it can change within one song. To ensure accuracy, the C3-Reference resamples the incoming signal every few seconds. In that moment of resampling, you get this little blink from the icon. "
Respect for being honest
I am using the Burson composer 3x dac paired with a Topping a90 headphone amplifier using a MacBook pro as a source. For the Burson the MacBook says that the selected device has no volume control. I have tried several methods found on MacBook forums to solve the problem. I am exchanging emails with Burson Audio. HELP!
You should not be changing the volume with your computer when using a dac/amp(which is what it sounds like you're trying to do, 10 months ago at least)
Very honest review indeed! Well done!
Nice SMB7 mic
I've been trying to understand the FIR FILTERS and what the sound signature is for each of them....
I wouldn't waste your time...nobody can tell the difference between any of them(or even the majority of decent dacs/amp for that matter) in a blind test.
@@Jon-nz3dm yep I also cant say difference thats bullshit
Great review and overview of the product! If I was guessing I would suggest that you could not audibly hear the difference between the amps/source gear as you're potentially limited by your headphones. The headphones you listed may not scale that well as you move up the value stream of source gear. I have the Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Audeze LCDX & 3F, and Klipsch HP3s... I'm part of a headfi tour and will be getting a week with the Burson 3XP in October so will report back... I have a Phonitor E, Schiit Lyr, Mono Liquid platinum to benchmark them against. We'll see how it goes!
so how did it go?
What did you find?
keep it up
We know what the conclusion is even if you're too polite to say it: if a unit costs many multiple times more than another one yet sounds identical there's no way it's worth it.
In terms of looks and build, the CV2+ is so much better.
Don´t check it with a Beyerdynamic, try Hifiman from Ananda to Susvara or Sennheiser HD800S, LCD-X, Focal MG
Whilst I do have an Ananda now, I didn't at the time. Certainly don't have any of the more expensive stuff you mentioned, way beyond the budget focus of this channel. Tbh I wanted Burson to send something more price appropriate to this channel but this is what they sent.
I have a Monorpice THX 788 all in one DAC/amp which has more features than this (no Bluetooth). I got it on sale for $475 IIRC. The sound is clean as you’d expect and has plenty of power. Good on you for sticking to your guns, differences in solid state gear shouldn’t really be audible (all things remaining the same).
Do you have any experience with the Arya Stealth? I’m about to pull the trigger and buy a pair, but I’ve seen quite a few people say that even the Stealth really shine with a Class A amp and I have a Thx 788 myself and was curious if it would even make a noticeable difference upgrading to a Class A.
@@Sexesunnys just go for it, I got Arya v2 and thx 887 plenty of power & great sound