Fremer's comments about 10 year old obsolete tech and high end audio gear being potential heirloom items was spot on. My 20+ year old Vandy model 2's still sound great.
there are easily two ways to view what mr. fremer said about obsoelescence and high end audio. one recognizes the timeless value of the gear, as mr. fremer would. the other would question the NEED for an annual show if there's nothing, really, new to see and get.
HiFi industry will have to change, baby boomers whilst the wealthiest generation in western history are starting to retire and die off. GenX doesn't come close in sheer size to replace them and millennial's are paying through the nose for housing, education and child care. I love the innovation that happens in this space but sadly there will be serious consolidation coming in the next decade for these guys as attitudes evolve and budgets shift to the lower end of the spectrum.
The report of my death was an exaggeration (Mark Twain). The CES will no doubt fade away for the audiophiles, but other venues have and will replace it. From what I have seen, this crazy hunt for audio nirvana is getting stronger every day. We are seeing truly amazing technological improvements on an almost daily basis; this is the golden age for the audiophile.
I respectfully disagree. We can now get hi fi components that can stomp anything sound quality wise than you could get just a few years ago, and at a very reasonable price. Yes, there is mega-buck stuff out there and I will buy them when I win the lottery, but 90% of the way there for 90% less cost is OK with me.
Schiit, PS audio, Nord, First Watt, Emotiva, Wired4Sound, Bel Canto, NAD, Parasound, etc. Will they compete with your $155K amp, probably not. Pick one, Nord, they produce a 400 watt amp that is absolutely amazing (about 2K pr). I have heard some of the best, and most of these guys are not that far behind.
Interesting report. Have to say though that rooms visited would be highly intimidating to most people. Perhaps these are geared more to distributors. In any event, not hard to see why good audio is dying at these shows. Would love to see these companies display more real-world systems in the under $5k range. Young people simply aren’t going to spend more than about $5k for a set of speakers, amplifier and digital or analog front end. Would also love to see Stereophile put together reviews of complete budget systems rather than the one-off component reviews that are usually inserted into systems well beyond the price range of said component. Michael made an excellent point about fact that good audio components will last for decades, compared to the digital and electronic junk that makes up most of CES.
What gets me about all the hi-end audio demos is they play tracks "specially mastered" I think for demos. They never play music most people would be listening to. Groups like Aerosmith. The Stones...music that isn't "audiophile" and mastered on SACD, 24-bit...etc. :)
A point that might not be appreciated is that for these videos, we must use recordings that are either out of copyright, or where the copyright has been temporarily assigned to the magazine. So while an Aerosmith track might well be played by exhibitors at a show, we couldn't include it in a TH-cam video. - John Atkinson
The high-end is an excuse for high price. Yes, some innovation is to be had, but the greed of human nature is fostered and nurtured. We love things more than music...
A suggestion: When you add comments in a video (9:25) put them in the middle or upper parts of the viewing area. I noticed that when I paused the video to read your note (much appreciated!) the video controls blocks the text so I can't read it. Thanks for taking the time to do these informative reports.
An English man in... Las Vegas 😉 John, you left your old and boring European country many years ago to go to live to the new world in a country so vast and full of picturesque places as USA. You lived in Santa Fe, one of the hottest places there, so different from your homeland, then to NYC. It's fascinating! What do your relatives say to you? Those that didn't cross the pond, I mean. That you are crazy or they envy you? It's just my curiosity 😄
Shows half million dollar setup and then guys talking about attendance and interested being at an all time low - nah, get out? Interesting video nonetheless.
You need to learn the meaning of "High End"; making High End more affordable would just be Mid-Fi. There are many levels of Hi-Fi, starting at entry level, just like many manufactured goods. Did you really think Stereophile wasn't going to post vids of esoteric equipment at CES? WoW
Kharma speakers are the biggest rippoff in audio possibly surpassing Wislon. Wanna pay ten times what it's worth in sound quality? Buy from this company.
Pushing over priced audio "jewelry" to line your pockets and keep your trade magazines afloat has consequences. To the average consumer who attends CES, a $20,000 amp ,$50,000 pair of speakers, $5000 electricity "conditioners", or $10.,000 set of cables represent an insulting joke. You all painted yourselves into an air tight box by focusing almost exclusively on this crap. It now looks like the box's oxygen is starting to run out. Soon all the "veils have been lifted" hot gas hyperbole will begin to choke on the building carbon dioxide.
Just as they're hi-end gear there's good gear to be had at amazing value/$. You can easily put up a system that will make your jaw drop for under 5k $ from brands like Rega, B&W, Dali, Cambridge Audio and so on. that's less than a Rolex and little more than a month's salary. This is CES...it's an expensive show to attend for them...thus only hi-end gear is pushed. I just can't believe how stupid people are into thinking that this represents ALL the hi-fi industry. This is like a sports car dealer where they only sell Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and Pagani. That doesn't mean that you can't buy a 15k $ Toyota for yourself and get amazing mileage and value out of it, with all the comforts of a modern day car.
Funny how there's so much less criticism out there of ultra-expensive wine, cars, watches, etc., people pay absurd amounts for canned concert presentations, handbags, and so on, but the greatest charades in the world of high-expense consumption are somehow audio products.
The computer and smartphone industry is taking the lionshare of the electronic market...so sad to hear we are diminishing every year...so sad. Nothing stands still in our World
This guy is a fool doesn’t know anything about what he’s selling,Atkinson impressed by money and cost,looking at most of these people it shows they don’t take care of themselves and sit on the couch listening too much
Ladies and gentlemen,there you have it, US$15,000 for Scanspeak speakers and $3000 extra for Automotive paint,which just absolute bullshit,all flat edges no curves easiest paint job ever,power conditioner for each channel,amp for each driver yadda,yadda wank,wank.
Thanks, I always can rely upon someone throwing together a few opinions and authoritatively judging something like this. You've helpfully only included several implied logical fallacies in your appraisal of these speakers and setup, mostly in a way suggestive of an ad hominem approach which wisely excludes any relevant (if tiresome) analysis supporting your judgment.
Steve Roginski There will always be old rich guys willing to pay a premium for whatever they perceive as an exclusive luxury item...hifi, wine, clothes, cars, etc. And they were always be poor young guys waiting for them to die expecting that dynamic to change.
I'm an older rich guy and the value is in high-end gear from the later 70's to mid 80's, not this boutique garbage that is simply overpriced and hyped by lunatics. Get the quality older stuff and refurbish it.
The only new equipment worth getting is new DAC's. Personally use a Benchmark DAC 3 hgc, pugged directly into a heavily modified dual toroidal CNAMPX power amplifier and custom made speakers. If this industry ever dies, those of us that still want quality sound will just modify studio audio gear.
Zobacz w encyklopedii czym jest obsesja, to natręctwa w brew woli. Dążenia estetyczne dźwięku na pewno nie są w brew woli one są wolą potrzeb estetycznych. Najdziwniejsze jest to że nie każdy przeżywa estetycznie tak te same bodźce, najwyraźniej nasze mózgi różnie słyszą tą samą rzecz która do nich dociera.
Sounds like most of our technology-based society, so I guess it would be best to follow such guidance and return to the woods, just burn logs and so on. I'll churn my own butter, too, because relying upon electricity makes me an idiot, too, I guess. Too bad I became accustomed to it and have relied upon it my whole life.
This is all pretentious nonsense for the rich plain and simple why not review equipment for the masses rather than the elite. These presenter's also live in cuckoo land, what is the point of these videos ?? quarter of a million system get real lol. for rich Eccentrics. the old guy needing a haircut is talking away as if he is some professor of hi fi so funny really.
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
This is excellent! Thank you very much for taking the time to produce this. 👍
Fremer's comments about 10 year old obsolete tech and high end audio gear being potential heirloom items was spot on. My 20+ year old Vandy model 2's still sound great.
Mine too, '94 2ce's
MR.John Atkinson very happy new year Thanks for sharing all the exhibition and good luck with your format
LAMM electronics , pure class A tube heaven , I love charma speakers even their feet. Great system .
…even their FEET ?? Let me tell you: this is a fetish 😎
@@bikemike1118 hahahahah
VTL speaks for it self, Fabulous kit.
there are easily two ways to view what mr. fremer said about obsoelescence and high end audio. one recognizes the timeless value of the gear, as mr. fremer would. the other would question the NEED for an annual show if there's nothing, really, new to see and get.
But the sales and marketing machinery MUST go on 😉
vtl and gibbon speakers like 096 is a great match also
I want to hear Back Sabbath blasted through that squillion dollar system not some barber shop quartet
HiFi industry will have to change, baby boomers whilst the wealthiest generation in western history are starting to retire and die off. GenX doesn't come close in sheer size to replace them and millennial's are paying through the nose for housing, education and child care. I love the innovation that happens in this space but sadly there will be serious consolidation coming in the next decade for these guys as attitudes evolve and budgets shift to the lower end of the spectrum.
bikesbeersnbeats! Audiophile stuff is irrelevant and needs to die
correct all this bullshit music no one listens to. organs and choirs c'mon.
29th to 35th floor = That's why it is called high-end. On the low end first floor scale - Singing with MJ on a slot machine. Thanks
The report of my death was an exaggeration (Mark Twain). The CES will no doubt fade away for the audiophiles, but other venues have and will replace it. From what I have seen, this crazy hunt for audio nirvana is getting stronger every day. We are seeing truly amazing technological improvements on an almost daily basis; this is the golden age for the audiophile.
I respectfully disagree. We can now get hi fi components that can stomp anything sound quality wise than you could get just a few years ago, and at a very reasonable price. Yes, there is mega-buck stuff out there and I will buy them when I win the lottery, but 90% of the way there for 90% less cost is OK with me.
Schiit, PS audio, Nord, First Watt, Emotiva, Wired4Sound, Bel Canto, NAD, Parasound, etc. Will they compete with your $155K amp, probably not. Pick one, Nord, they produce a 400 watt amp that is absolutely amazing (about 2K pr). I have heard some of the best, and most of these guys are not that far behind.
Замечательная акустика Вандерстин 2СЕ!
Thoroughly enjoyed the vid. Thank You. Hang on in there CES. Hope it works out.
500,000 I’d love to hear that , it would need to be unbelievable
Mikey - the same thing happened to me in vegas - they make the slot machines video games you cannot understand. And I grew up in the 80s
I really enjoyed this video!!! I just had to subscribe after watching this!!! I look forward to watching more videos!!! ☮️🖖🏽
Interesting report. Have to say though that rooms visited would be highly intimidating to most people. Perhaps these are geared more to distributors. In any event, not hard to see why good audio is dying at these shows. Would love to see these companies display more real-world systems in the under $5k range. Young people simply aren’t going to spend more than about $5k for a set of speakers, amplifier and digital or analog front end. Would also love to see Stereophile put together reviews of complete budget systems rather than the one-off component reviews that are usually inserted into systems well beyond the price range of said component. Michael made an excellent point about fact that good audio components will last for decades, compared to the digital and electronic junk that makes up most of CES.
Vandersteen definitely sounded best for voices. The Choral was quite natural with good definition and good placement and sizing of the voices.
from the video? how could you tell?
@@out4lox262
Not from the "video"...
from the audio!
hahaha
Sound was impressive w/my JVC HA-FW01 woodies.
What gets me about all the hi-end audio demos is they play tracks "specially mastered" I think for demos. They never play music most people would be listening to. Groups like Aerosmith. The Stones...music that isn't "audiophile" and mastered on SACD, 24-bit...etc. :)
A point that might not be appreciated is that for these videos, we must use recordings that are either out of copyright, or where the copyright has been temporarily assigned to the magazine. So while an Aerosmith track might well be played by exhibitors at a show, we couldn't include it in a TH-cam video. - John Atkinson
Kinda late finding this video, but in the case of the Stones, you certainly can get them on SACD, and it's the best you'll ever hear them.
What is John wearing in his ears whilst auditioning...and wouldn’t it/they adversely affect the sound?
Those are the Sennheiser Ambeo binaural microphones
Stereoeditor Thanks so much! Now I get it.
Great video.
Thanks!
The high-end is an excuse for high price. Yes, some innovation is to be had, but the greed of human nature is fostered and nurtured. We love things more than music...
My Beyerdynamic DT770 pro Headphones go down to 5Hz (at 10 my hearing stops) for 150€ :-)
that was real interesting.
you MUST get rid of the back of head shots. You must! Everything else is wonderful!
Mr. Fremer and FHaC (Fastest Hair at CES)! Must be all those years of XLF sound waves.
Nice vlog. But $500k systems? Not for the regular guy. That's why the shows are dying?
Yeah, that's why Top Gear was shit too.
A suggestion: When you add comments in a video (9:25) put them in the middle or upper parts of the viewing area. I noticed that when I paused the video to read your note (much appreciated!) the video controls blocks the text so I can't read it. Thanks for taking the time to do these informative reports.
Those were trump cables. And was that a plant misting machine in vtl ?
do people really spend this much money on audio equipment?
It's like been there!
Those Sennheiser Ambeo binaural headphones work a treat, What are you using to record the track? Apple device or a stereo recorder handheld?
An iPhone 6S
Stereoeditor thanks, it works and very well too. I like it.
whats with audiophiles and soft music?
Because the music is second to talking about how expensive the gear is.
XD
Zero testosterone usually. Also, rhe systems can’t really handle the music people listen to in the real world.
They don't listen to music.
They listen to bits, bytes, transistors and potentiometers!
Is he using hearing aids to evaluate the audio systems?
I got curious about this as well...
I believe he’s using ear mounted microphones to get a reasonable approximation of what he’s hearing.
It's Sennheiser Ambeo Headset. A binaural microphone headset
An English man in... Las Vegas 😉
John, you left your old and boring European country many years ago to go to live to the new world in a country so vast and full of picturesque places as USA. You lived in Santa Fe, one of the hottest places there, so different from your homeland, then to NYC. It's fascinating! What do your relatives say to you? Those that didn't cross the pond, I mean. That you are crazy or they envy you?
It's just my curiosity 😄
Shows half million dollar setup and then guys talking about attendance and interested being at an all time low - nah, get out? Interesting video nonetheless.
Mike F. is always a blast, JA told it like it was, not the best sound as expected. BTW, nice cough @22:45
C E S not as popular as it used to be my be they should drop there prices so that more of the public can afford high end HI FI.
You need to learn the meaning of "High End"; making High End more affordable would just be Mid-Fi.
There are many levels of Hi-Fi, starting at entry level, just like many manufactured goods.
Did you really think Stereophile wasn't going to post vids of esoteric equipment at CES?
WoW
Michael, loved your sung intro; you are brilliant!!! Can’t you persuade John A to sing a long too!
Imagine a Stereop[hile staff choir, with a follow up of their pets, a Capella.
Kharma speakers are the biggest rippoff in audio possibly surpassing Wislon. Wanna pay ten times what it's worth in sound quality? Buy from this company.
Pushing over priced audio "jewelry" to line your pockets and keep your trade magazines afloat has consequences. To the average consumer who attends CES, a $20,000 amp ,$50,000 pair of speakers, $5000 electricity "conditioners", or $10.,000 set of cables represent an insulting joke. You all painted yourselves into an air tight box by focusing almost exclusively on this crap. It now looks like the box's oxygen is starting to run out. Soon all the "veils have been lifted" hot gas hyperbole will begin to choke on the building carbon dioxide.
Very funny and a lot of truth to it!
Exactly. If your electronics are designed properly, especially at $200k, you should not need conditioning.
Just as they're hi-end gear there's good gear to be had at amazing value/$.
You can easily put up a system that will make your jaw drop for under 5k $ from brands like Rega, B&W, Dali, Cambridge Audio and so on.
that's less than a Rolex and little more than a month's salary.
This is CES...it's an expensive show to attend for them...thus only hi-end gear is pushed.
I just can't believe how stupid people are into thinking that this represents ALL the hi-fi industry.
This is like a sports car dealer where they only sell Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and Pagani.
That doesn't mean that you can't buy a 15k $ Toyota for yourself and get amazing mileage and value out of it, with all the comforts of a modern day car.
Actual lol at ”veils have been lifted”. I love watching this crap die off.
Funny how there's so much less criticism out there of ultra-expensive wine, cars, watches, etc., people pay absurd amounts for canned concert presentations, handbags, and so on, but the greatest charades in the world of high-expense consumption are somehow audio products.
The computer and smartphone industry is taking the lionshare of the electronic market...so sad to hear we are diminishing every year...so sad. Nothing stands still in our World
All that just to play a record
This guy is a fool doesn’t know anything about what he’s selling,Atkinson impressed by money and cost,looking at most of these people it shows they don’t take care of themselves and sit on the couch listening too much
8:38
20:00 lol
Russian cabling. I wouldn't buy nothing from those guys.
Joe Russo do you mean you wouldn’t buy anything or you would pay your money and leave empty handed?
Move your big head
A bunch of old people listening to weird music on ridiculously expensive gear and believing in power conditioners.
BOGDAN YOU ARE SPOT ON ELECTRONS HAVE FEELINGS YOU SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ladies and gentlemen,there you have it, US$15,000 for Scanspeak speakers and $3000 extra for Automotive paint,which just absolute bullshit,all flat edges no curves easiest paint job ever,power conditioner for each channel,amp for each driver yadda,yadda wank,wank.
Thanks, I always can rely upon someone throwing together a few opinions and authoritatively judging something like this. You've helpfully only included several implied logical fallacies in your appraisal of these speakers and setup, mostly in a way suggestive of an ad hominem approach which wisely excludes any relevant (if tiresome) analysis supporting your judgment.
Once all the old guys die off, this cottage industry of ultra-expensive rip-off hi-fi is gone.
Steve Roginski There will always be old rich guys willing to pay a premium for whatever they perceive as an exclusive luxury item...hifi, wine, clothes, cars, etc.
And they were always be poor young guys waiting for them to die expecting that dynamic to change.
I'm an older rich guy and the value is in high-end gear from the later 70's to mid 80's, not this boutique garbage that is simply overpriced and hyped by lunatics. Get the quality older stuff and refurbish it.
Steve - 0.. bv2 ? 5 b ? 🐔. ¥9 loudspeaker 2 ;: l.=.
The only new equipment worth getting is new DAC's. Personally use a Benchmark DAC 3 hgc, pugged directly into a heavily modified dual toroidal CNAMPX power amplifier and custom made speakers. If this industry ever dies, those of us that still want quality sound will just modify studio audio gear.
Its these guys that cause the high prices because the manufactures no they can take them to the cleaners
Audiofilia to nie pasja tylko obsesja i choroba psychiczna
Zobacz w encyklopedii czym jest obsesja, to natręctwa w brew woli. Dążenia estetyczne dźwięku na pewno nie są w brew woli one są wolą potrzeb estetycznych. Najdziwniejsze jest to że nie każdy przeżywa estetycznie tak te same bodźce, najwyraźniej nasze mózgi różnie słyszą tą samą rzecz która do nich dociera.
I was once into this idiotic hobby...cut off electricity and its a heap of plastic and metal junk
D.P. SoniSerr so is your computer
Sounds like most of our technology-based society, so I guess it would be best to follow such guidance and return to the woods, just burn logs and so on. I'll churn my own butter, too, because relying upon electricity makes me an idiot, too, I guess. Too bad I became accustomed to it and have relied upon it my whole life.
poveretti...
This is all pretentious nonsense for the rich plain and simple why not review equipment for the masses rather than the elite. These presenter's also live in cuckoo land, what is the point of these videos ?? quarter of a million system get real lol. for rich Eccentrics. the old guy needing a haircut is talking away as if he is some professor of hi fi so funny really.