Fun fact: I LIVED this. Right when Tangled came out, my family went to the theater to see it together, but I was running a little late and arrived exactly at the point when we first see Rapunzel in the tower. And I had a totally different experience from everyone else watching the movie. I wasn't super familiar with the original fairy tale, and I legitimately thought that Gothel was Rapunzel's mom. I knew she wasn't very nice, but I also knew this was a Disney movie, so I thought that the mom was going to eventually come to realize that she'd been overprotecting her daughter and that Rapunzel needed to experience the world, despite its dangers. So when Gothel was revealed to be evil, I was shocked! I felt like I was going through the same experience as Rapunzel and really keenly understood the betrayal she was feeling. In short, I agree with you. I think my experience watching this movie was better because I didn't watch the first five minutes.
Bonus thought: skipping the first five minutes also frames Mother Gotham's coercive control and abuse in a much more effective way. We start off thinking she's the good guy, the loving (if a little off) mother. We get red flags but... she's her mother, why would she be trying to hurt Rapunzel? And then we realise as Rapunzel does that Mother Gotham has been using and controlling her from the second she got her hands on her. We go through this emotional rollercoaster alongside Rapunzel, so we can empathise so much more with her experience.
As someone who has lived the tangled experience it's a perfect example of gaslighting and being kept from the rest of the world and its affects. The show goes further with it and actually shows how trauma of this kind can really fuck with your mind and become hyper aware of people bad intentions once you leave (her parents try to keep her in the castle because of fear she'll be taken again but gives her reminders of her past)
There is a *bit* of function to the flower: Gothel constantly refers to Rapunzel as "my flower," which tells the audience how she views Rapunzel, not as a daughter or a person, but as an object to replace a lost object
The flower back story could've come later, when Rapunzel confronts Gothel. She could tell the story of why Rapunzel has powers and “justify” the kidnapping.
plus whenever she shows affection to rapunzel its PURELY directed at her hair, u can see her pat it on several occasions + i think she strokes it when she finds rapunzel
"kids are as smart as you allow them to be" is extremely true and highlights one of the many failings of the education system we use; kids are assumed to be stupid until "taught" to be smart.
It isnt failing tho, its working as intended. For the people that endorse this, Kids should be pure, naive and therefore not "sinful". We live in the middle ages when it comes to this stuff.
@@roseclouds5838 Baby speak has perks. For example, it holds the child's attention, and speaking slower with more emphasis on vowels and consonants are helpful. However, saying gibberish doesn't gelp at all (things like making up words to mean hungry, etc) Your parents probably cut out all of the gibberish, which us awesome. My mother-in-law is so annoying with it. She baby speaks to me. I'm 29.
True for adult learners too. We treat them like they’re “kids” (lacking capacity to understand) while they’re learning, rather than providing information in a structured, nonjudgmental way.
I watched the show, and yet I could still agree. At this point I’m watching out of obligation. I’m not a fan, but my curiosity is stronger than my level of dislike.
@@jamietheangryoctopus5938 samee!! I hate to admit it but at this point I just HAVE to see Marinette and Adrien finally get together, it's pure torture!
@@jamietheangryoctopus5938 I would just like to warn you about season 3. Just know that it really plays to fan ideas, theories, comics, etc, in a (generally) badly written way. I have no clue about season 4 tho
gothel should have had a line like "oh i can't help it i'm a scorpio" so we realize she's just really into astrology and that's why she wouldn't lie to rapunzel about her birthday
@@Brocolli_Pizza OP saying „POV: I am three drinks in“ would be incorrect. Correct would be something like „POV: what the guests at a party see when I‘m three drinks in“ or „this video is just me when I‘m three drinks in“. So usually when people say POV they mean who the camera is in that sense. But you can’t be the camera if you are the one talking in front of the camera. I hope my explanation makes sense, English is not my mother tongue.
"Children's media can and should be good" THANK YOU I hate it when people excuse filth because "it's made for kids!!" no, it's made to exploit kids (as you said), not "for" them.
Really, really well-made stories for children can end up being doubly entertaining for adults, because the story managed to be good without using sexploitation or lots of gore and explosion. leaving mostly: creativity, suspense and wit. Dear gods, I'd give a year of my life to see a version of Game of Thrones made by the same director, same actors but pg13. There are several years from middle school that I can do very well without, just pick one.
SO TRUE! Like I remember this comment trying to defend STVFOE's horrible finale and bad writing decision by saying that "ItS jUsT fOr KiDs." Like no, the "it's just for kids" argument is just a dumb excuse to avoid criticism.
He made two different noises based on whose nose the kid pressed. The kid took this knowledge and then pressed both noses at the same time. The kid took the rules of the game and created a scenario that the TH-camr couldn't respond to. The TH-camr couldn't make both noises at once.
having gothel's plan be a big reveal to both rapunzel and the audience would've effectively accomplished what disney has clumsily been trying to do with all their twist villains since frozen I'm SO mad
It actually makes me think that there were two creative factions in Disney. One wanted the traditional 'audience knows who's good or bad' and one wanted the new 'twist villain version'. Both groups then got to change the other faction's movie, so we got the intro to Tangled and the mess that was Frozen's late story edits to make Elsa the good guy and Hans the villain.
Except for one problem with that. Tangled is clearly based on the well known fairytale Rapunzel, which is about a witch who kidnaps a princess and locks her in a tower. Anyone familiar with the story would already know the twist. It'd be fairly obvious.
I think Rapunzel is the only blonde person we see in the whole movie. I’m honestly surprised no one commented on the fact that she looks like that baby in the mosaic when she spent what must have been hours in front of it between getting her hair braided and painting and dancing.
Even if someone said something, that probably won’t convince her yet, she doesn’t have enough reasons to be suspicious. And she already knows she looks like the baby, she saw the mosaic.
I think Tangled would’ve been genuinely horrifying without the first 5 minutes. Like that moment where Rapunzel realizes that Mother Gothel isn’t her mom, it’s such a guttural feeling of Loneliness. Like the feeling of being a stranger in a strange place because even though it’s her childhood home and she’s lived here for years, she realizes it’s not her home. That these things and this person that has been apart of her routine since childhood are simply strangers. Mother Gothel, in the end, is literally just some woman. Rapunzel (and the audience) doesn’t know ANYTHING about her. Other than “she’s Rapunzel’s mother”. So when you take away the only thing we know about Gothel, she is a complete stranger. But that’s just my perspective
@@xub2126 no, but it takes the blow away for the audience. we already Know who Gothel is, so we've got her framed as a villain. without the first five minutes, we would believe that she is her mother.
But it adds to the little info puzzle pieces Rapunzel used to figure everything out. From flynn she knows the lanterns are to celebrate the princess. when she goes there, she doesnt see said princess. She saw the painting of the king and queen holding a green eyed blonde baby with a crown on her head . She could ask where the princess is & what that painting is for, but then the 3 little girls put flowers near the painting and say "its for *the lost* princess". .. so the princess is missing. Point is, its gradual information being seeped into her mind slowly until every part of the puzzle is put together when she sat on her bed.
I feel like something that is sadly hugely missed by cutting the intro is Mother Gothel's not-so-affectionate nickname for Rapunzel, 'my flower', it so subtly but so powerfully demonstrates how Gothel sees Rapunzel, as nothing more than that source of immortality. I completely agree that there is more gained than lost by cutting the intro, but this really feels like an underrated aspect.
@@juliaingelse2140 Very true and I adore that aspect of her character and writing, but I do think that part isn't lost by cutting the intro personally. It's still such a wonderful aspect though (if you couldn't tell, I adore Tangled, its one of my all time favorite movies)
@@thebestvoice3407 yeah it would only really become something you are aware of the second time you’re watching or when rapunzel realises she is the princess. It would make you wonder about the little pet names but it would make it more interesting. Cause you would always wonder about that but in a good way. (And yes tangled is my favourite movie ever, comfort movie always)
well, if disney *had* skipped the the intro and instead saved it for later, maybe via gothel revealing it to rapunzel that she is the sundrop those little details begin to jump out at you and make more sense when you rewatch the movie a second time like, it makes it so that those details don't stand out until you watch the movie a second time and it becomes a movie worth watching a second time and a third time just to make sure you didn't miss everything and that is honestly what makes a good movie, making you want to rewatch it to capture every detail
Fun fact: I went to see this movie when it came out and we got caught in traffic, resulting in us literally coming in 5 minutes late. I did quite enjoy watching it despite not realizing that everyone else in the theater had a lot more context than me
yeah, that also happened for me and my brother. when we got the dvd and watched it from the beginning i was so confused of what was happening because i hadn't watches it before😆
Love that Eugene is so anti cop. Tangled the series set up a very lovely backstory for WHY he steals and then ruined it by making captain of the royal guard.
I mean Rapunzel is literally the 1%? She’s the future ruler. Unless she makes it a democracy. Also her other bestie is a child of the old captain of the guard.
@@zachanikwano TRUE I just didn’t ever read his character as someone who’d Want to be captain of the royal guard? You’d think he’d like.. want to make a change to the system to help kids who grew up the way he did rather than contribute to that same system
Oh wow, I skipped the first 5 mins of this video without realizing because I thought, must be one of those random ramblings, get me to the juicy part please.
OH MY GOD the nose boop story and the subsequent rant about "suits" throwing money at terrible productions ostensibly for "the children" IS TRANSCENDENT. Children are raw unformed intelligence seeking any and all input. They are innately brilliant and that brilliance grows commensurate with what you feed it. Thank you, this whole video is incredible but that bit is truly beyond ✨
Huh,,, almost,,, as though,,,, ya know. The first 5 minutes of the video were pointless and you could still watch it and perfectly understand all of it while skipping them?
I love the insanely ADHD process that your sentence structures imply. As a fellow neurodivergent person myself it's hilarious to see someone who thinks like I do.
Right? It's so delightful to listen to. CJ talks faster than any other video essayist I watch and I'm still able to follow them perfectly even through the tangents because Dude That's My Brain Too
YES. I was absolutely shocked to meet another person with the same thought structure as me - and to find that this person doesn't sound like an idiot (as I thought I did) but instead sounds very engaging and intelligent! It opened a whole world for me!
@@XerxesTexasToast this style of presentation is how i personally digest information the best, the sense of urgency in his manic speaking patterns is truly endearing and is so easy for me to understand and relate to, which makes the information he’s conveying way easier for me to digest. my brain works really fast and it always seems like i’m fighting to burst out the copious amounts of information flying thru my head, and it’s so refreshing to see someone who communicates this thru their art
This is exactly how I feel about the song Stacy’s Mom. They repeat the titular phrase over and over at the beginning and it ruins what would have otherwise been a comedic reveal at the chorus.
I completely agree but theres somethibg so fucking hilarious about the sentence ‘This is exactly how I feel about the song Stacy’s Mom.’ fully punctuated and serious
@@squigg7107 How tho? A MHLF is exactly what I thought the song would be about the moment I saw the title "Stacy's Mom"... because what else could it be?
Instead of the prologue at the beginning narrated by Eugene we could have it right after Rapunzel realized she’s the princess and told by Mother Gothel. It could be super creepy and rewritten along the lines of “the wicked king and queen stole the beautiful magic flower, so I simply took it back...” A completely different feeling and the final nail in the coffin that makes you realize that mother gothel ain’t playin.
I know the frying pan is a tangled reference, but that and the eye makeup and the ranting energy just give this such like 3 AM sleepover vibes and I love it
"the world is not confusing, and its not new. its beautiful and its always been there and youre from there and it was stolen from you." why did this make me burst into tears
I knew a woman really difficult and controlling and her YA daughter was really into Diseny's stuff and was a huge fan of Rapunzel and I was like: this makes so much sense.
‘The world is not confusing and it’s not new, it’s beautiful and it’s where you were from and it’s where you belong, it’s been stolen from you.’ Damn this is good, really stood out to me. You’ve got a great way with words. Great video.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 i mean.. not really, i just knew there was a girl with really long hair in a tower and assumed the story was like every other fairy tale. so it makes sense she had an evil fake mother, but i didnt actually know that - if i didnt have the first 5 mins - im surprised to say i bet i would have viewed the movie much differently. but its not only that, because this is a remake of the original story, and knowing that, its ought to have its differences, so even if i did know the original story maybe i would have assumed this would take a different approach since Disney adaptations often do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@sarasamaletdin4574 I only knew because of an English class in 7th grade that vaguely mentioned the story. It doesn't come up all that often in casual conversation.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 it's actually not that uncommon, surprisingly few people know the plot of pretty well known fairy tales. Or maybe that's just me being the German who grew up with these stories I am-
@@sarasamaletdin4574 But the original fairy tale is really different from the introduction, so knowing its story doesn't help that much. In the original her parents are poor people, there is no magical flower and she doesn't get stolen stealthily but given away in exchange for the Lamb's lettuce (Rapunzel) her father steals from the witch. They changed it up so much that they also could have changed the identity of the woman that kept her in the tower.
BTW, regarding that flower, can we talk about how Goethel is "a greedy old lady who wants the flower all to herself" but then when they kill the magic flower to make tea for the queen it is seen as an OK and not greedy at all thing to do?
I MADE A TIKTOK ABOUT THAT! That is something that bothered me and i think is pro powerful propaganda. If people in power want to live, then its fine, but if a common old woman wants to live then its sinful
I always understood it as because gothel understood how to use the power regenerative (the song) but kept it to herself, it resulted in them destroying the flower because they didn't know the song and therefore didn't understand how to use it without brewing a tea, therefore gothels selfishness directly leads to the selfish destruction of the flower
Honestly, if I'm watching this movie blind without the intro and Flynn says "that lantern thing they do for the princess", I'm going to think "Oh, guess the princess likes it when people release a whole bunch of lanterns," because we have no idea that this princess isn't at the capitol, and without the opening no one's going to guess that they just launch a whole bunch of lanterns as a mourning/missing person event because who does that? Edit: Also THANK YOU for noticing the birthday thing! I love this movie and in general don't think nitpicking accomplishes anything good but I was unlucky enough to realize the first time I watched it, 10 minutes in, "wait, you've been here as long as you can remember and your kidnapper just said 'your birthday was last year' so clearly she doesn't care that much, how do you know when your birthday is?!"
Absoluteyl! When you think about it the movie really hinges on the fact that Gothel keeps her birthday the same, because if she didn't, the lights wouldn't happen on her birthday and she wouldn't be driven to go to see the lights and probably would have just kicked Flynn out of the window or let her mother deal with him when she got home. My proposal: they should have made the lantern ceremony held on the day she disappeared, it makes more sense because Gothel seems like the kind of person who would be like "fuck, I forgot what her real birthday is, oh well, we'll just go from the day I stole her" because she's self-centred and narcissistic, and it would have been a great explanation as to why the lanterns happen on the same day as her "birthday" even though Gothel tried to conceal it in some way. That's just my hot take though.
@@Winterappleby I think that Gothel actually stole Rapunzel on the day she was born. Just late in the day. I do however think that you are right. I've seen the birthday argument before and have always thought that she told her the birthday out of her own narcissism. She wanted to celebrate reclaiming Rapunzel and the birthday was an easy way to do so. Gothel is always trying to keep up the loving mother charade and so it is very in character to celebrate Rapunzel's birthday pretending it was for her when in reality it was Gothel's own celebration. Also Gothel absolutely celebrates her own birthday so it would be weird for her not to mention Rapunzel's. It is solely Gothel's own narcissism that led to her giving Rapunzel's actual birthday. She was proud. Proud of her own reclamation of the power that she lost. As Rapunzel is growing up though, now Gothel fears her leaving. I always read the "Can't be your birthday was last year." as a way to keep Rapunzel thinking she is young and needs to be protected, and put off her eventual insistence on having a life.
@@TessaImAMessa Whaaaat? She looked at least like 6 months old though! I mean Disney can be like that, but I for sure thought she was at least a few months old before she stole her. I don't know if they mention in the film when she gets stolen. I think it makes more sense that she was older when she was stolen though, because she eventually remembers her parents faces and the crib she was in, which she definitely wouldn't remember if she was a newborn.
In response to your point that if you don’t watch the first five minutes you wouldn’t know that the princess was missing I’m pretty sure in the montage scene of rapunzel and Flynn in the kingdom rapunzel overhears a child who’s laying down a flower say “it’s for the missing princess”. So Rapunzel (and by extension; the audience) would know that the princess is missing. Plus the mural she’s laying the flower on the ground that shows the princess looks exactly like rapunzel would as a baby.
@@kingofqueens5128 Sure, but that happens a lot later in the movie, solidly in the last 3rd, so you wouldn't know any of that when he first mentions "the lantern thing".
Considering how many times Flynn should have died before he was brought back to life I like to imagine her tears just glowed and didn’t do anything and Flynn was just already immortal
99% certain the intro didn't exist til some movie executive got confused when it started and said no one would enjoy it if they didn't know what was happening
@@boylettuce1458 that's funny, because normally makes a claim, they have to proof their correct. It they don't care that much, then you shouldn't either.
Fun fact, HAVE TO SHARE: The first time I ever saw Tangled this very thing happened to me unintentionally! I was going to watch this movie in the theater. Now, due to bad planning, I ended up getting to the theater late (after the opening trailers and about the first 5 mins) so I came into this movie literally blind. And I cannot stress enough how this very thing, singlehandedly elevated my experience of this movie. Oh my god, it was exactly what you describe. I actually ended up forgetting I missed the first five minutes, and started recommending this movie as a Really Smart mystery with a plot twist! Until I saw it again from the beginning, and while I still absolutely love Tangled, I couldn’t help but feel the first 5 mins lessened the story. Long winded way of saying, I LITERALLY EXPERIENCED THIS SCENARIO AND YESS IT FRIKIN WORKS!!!! Thanks for making this!
The first time I saw Tangled I actually missed the first 5 minutes. It was fantastic. I didn’t know why no one else was terrified when the mother turned out to be evil. The second time I watched the movie I saw the intro and was upset they gave everything away.
No joke, I GASPED at the reveal in this. I felt like the world around me was crumbling at the thought of Mother Gothel actually being a TWIST villain, that is utter genius
This makes me think of how that one Chris Pratt space movie would have been so much better if it started when the girl wakes up. “Oh god, my capsule malfunctioned but at least this other guy is also awake… wait… he woke me up?!” That’s the twist we needed to discover with her but literally we are told everything that should be a secret to us. Anyway, you get it. It’s wild to me that movies with gigantic crews of people working on it could not see the omissions and reorderings that would be better for the audience.
Honestly, I kind of like the detail that people CAN come and go from the tower without using Rapunzel's hair (even though it wouldn't make sense before her hair got to be 70 feet long, i.e. when she was a kid). It's just another way that Gothel kept Rapunzel trapped through perception and obedience- both in that she couldn't use her own hair to escape, and that the hair preserves the pair (Gothel through its magic, Rapunzel through withholding entry to the tower). When Flynn gets into the tower without her help, it's not just startling to Rapunzel to see someone besides Gothel at all, it's also another seed of doubt that she's safe here anyway.
WOW. That says something about mothers protecting their daughters’ “flowers” from outside influences-even to the detriment of the daughter and their relationship…
the reveal of rapunzel being a princess is MUCH more impactful when you don’t already know. plus, without the first five minutes, the moments like where she puts on the crown and looks at the mural work like foreshadowing.
But every member of the breakfast club was also every member of the breakfast club. Kinda the point of the film. 😉 (not that I don't agree with your point entirely)
Fun fact: Skipping the first 5 minutes was exactly how I first watched the movie! I watched Tangled at the theatre and my dad and I were late (we got inside when Rapunzel was singing "When Will My Life Begin") And I can assure that the experience was absolutely what you would hoped for. I knew that Mother Gothel was suspicious and all, but really thought she would be the type of character that would learn her lesson at the end or something. Like Ariel's father. NOPE! It was great to see the character reveal her intentions slowly.
The chaotic vibe swinging around the pot to show ode to Tangled with rapidly spoken sentences and zany video chapter titles is exactly the mood I needed today. Edit: the ending sent me
I’m sure a lot of children were introduced to the Rapunzel story through Tangled. They wouldn’t have any prior knowledge of the original tale. Missed opportunity, how fun for them to discover things with Rapunzel.
i remember i was like 6 when tangled came out and some other 6 year old was like "the first 5 minutes ruined it!" i was like "shut up you're six." but now i realize they were right all along. sorry Liam.
I always point out about the movie that it's a plothole that mother Gothel ever told Rapunzel the concept of a birthday, or aging in years, at that. Granted Rapunzel could still be interested in the yearly reoccuring phenomenon. Also: in the German fairy tale the girl is named after a salat plant.
even if they wanted to keep the "flower gave her power" plot, they could just show that after Rapunzel realizes, like a voiceover of Gothel just being horrid and selfish towards the flower and then feeling how in some sick way she is owed Rapunzel as a debt. like they could do that
“its got feelsy moments too if you’re not repressing your inner child out of a misplaced need to avoid vulnerability” we’re not even a minute into the video why do u have to call me out like that
Without the intro, we learn about the world and story of Tangled at the same pace as the protagonist. It makes no sense for Flynn/Eugene to be our pov character. Great video!
I'm really late to this convo but I always thought it would be better to have that first five minutes put after Rapunzel realizes she's the princess back in the tower. They could have had Gothel herself tell the story, angry at the royals for stealing her flower so she stole it back - in the form of Rapunzel. We would get all the backstory they came up with, the flower and everything, but after Rapunzel already came to the conclusion that she was kidnapped. It would also put another layer of devastation onto Rapunzel bc she would learn Gothel never even thought she was special, she never cared for her in any way; she cared about the flower's powers. Then, when the hair is cut and she thinks all hope is lost and her tear heals Eugene is an even bigger twist bc she IS special bc she is cared about. By Eugene. Anyway nobody will see this comment so I just went off for no reason what a great day
I personally think the film should have started off by introducing the kingdom and saying they'll tell a story. A ton of pages are ripped out (like the flower) and we're met with Rapunzel in the tower. Then that scene is played at the end. It's revealed to us that Rapunzel's parents are morally ambiguous people who will kill plants to keep the queen alive but also didn't intend to cause hurt. It just packs a punch that way.
Morally ambiguous to kill plants to keep someone alive? I guess because it was like the last one alive, so they're directly making the key to immortality an extinct species, but even then that's somewhat justifiable unless they had a specific way to turn it into medicine that can help multiple people or replant it and help the plant species survive (they might have been able to i havent watched tge movie in a while). Otherwise its essentially just sitting there waiting to be plucked while the king watches his wife die. If there was/they knew of a definitive way to help multiple people with the flower and that they would be giving that up for the sake of one person then id be more inclined to agree with you. Still, I'd argue that they'd still be good but desperate people rather than morally ambiguous in nature, as most others in that situation would probably do the same thing. They're actions might have been morally grey though, but not necessarily the characters If that was what you meant then id understand, but the fact that they were willing to kill a plant to save someone doesn't sound morally ambiguous at all. It sounds like something anyone would do, even sounds like a good thing. We do it all the time in real life, we even eat them for sustenance. It's just that we don't have magic here. @Carosbee
Even if the audience does figure out what's going on at the earliest possible opportunity then it still is satisfying to piece that together instead of being explained it.
THANK YOU for noticing how often Eugene potentially dies in this movie. My sister and I love the movie a lot, but one day said, “shouldn’t he have died from that frying pan?” That started an inside joke where we counted how many times he got hurt, and we got to 17. Now, when someone in a movie gets hurt, we say, “concussion number 17!” Edit: I kept waiting for you to accidentally hit yourself in the head with the frying pan like Rapunzel does in the movie.
I would just like to say: I have a cast iron pan and once hit myself with it by accident, and could taste blood for a couple hours but i didn't get actually injured. Then again, if it were a hit with intent it probably would've been different
15:00 it's important to note that our idea of gothel as a sorceress is also informed by the fact that in this movie she's low-key a racist caricature of a Roma, which we culturally associate with duplicitous magic and villainy.
i was today years old when i found out 'stealing blond children for their hair' is something people actually believe romani people do. (i'd always thought of mother gothel as more of a jewish, 'blood libel' reference, if anything)
@@user-qv2qf1jk5o Point _back_ to Disney: in Hunchback of Notre Dame, Esmeralda IS a victim of this notion in the original book. She was made actually Romani in the Disney movie. Something that still needs work, especially with this coming after Hunchback, but still.
@@user-qv2qf1jk5o "Am I The Only One" exists, and even looking just to Disney, there's the "both sidesing" in Pocahontas and "We Are Siamese" in the Aristocats. Not pretending the Romani stuff in Disney's Hunchback or elsewhere is "good", just that in this obscenely bigoted world, I'm saving genuine outrage for where it counts. Also: are you talking Hunchback or Tangled here? And _which_ song, specifically?
This actually might have also made the sequel series, Rapunzel's tangles Adventure, even better as well! Imagine if it wasn't confirmed that Rapunzel was the Sundrop Flower until Varian realized it in "The Alchemist Returns" towards the end of Season 1. It would've prolonged the mystery a bit. Even if it would've been obvious by that point, the reveal would've been satisfying.
No. That would require the story of the series to have been rewritten. What this person is arguing(?) is that the movie was written in such a way, that it would benefit from simply removing the first five minutes.
eliquorice made a great video essay detailing how the vision for brave was so conflicted because of studio interference which led to the head of the story stepping down, definitely worth a watch th-cam.com/video/wRjHL8kbkZk/w-d-xo.html
@@SaiScribbles Also Disney or Pixar fired the original director (who also directed The Prince of Egypt BTW), and then later on said that "gender has nothing to do with this movie."
Watching Encanto you can tell it suffers from the same opening scene to explain the magic-when in all actuality it removes the tension from Mirabel and Alma’s conflict/resolution. I don’t know why Disney insists on spoon feeding its audience but it’s annoying af.
For Encanto, the opening has a very different effect. It is the watered down version of the story. You think you know what happened but later when Alma and Mirabel are talking, you see how completely devastating that trauma actually was for Alma
I always thought her villain song was very low energy for a disney villain song... not all can be as epic as hellfire, but still... however, if you want to hint at her villainy while making her appear as potentially an OK but misguided mother, well then the song being more subdued actually works pretty well.
The first five minutes feels like a weird last minute attachment. The movie is so well structured around the mystery, the spoilers at the start really crash it.
The “I am the lost princess” scene will be SO ICONIC to them. Especially cuz children are not the best at picking up mystery clues/tropes and would probably be figuring it out real time with her.
the only part that wouldn't work would be at the end where Eugene says whatever about this being the story of how he died or any time they mention a flower
every once in a while youtube’s algorithm just gets it right and recommends to me the perfect video by a creator I never knew existed and which I will now binge all of their videos...and this was one of those times
perfect example of "show dont tell". the ultimate climax of a story should shake the audience to their CORE and make em feel like a genius at the same time. just gimme that sweet mystery juice man, ill slurp that shit up like nobody's business
aS a mUiSic sTuDenT, I absolutely vibe with the whole 'music can be both subjective and objective' view. Humans are predisposed to have certain reactions to certain types of music. Pretty much everyone will respond with shock to a loud and sudden noise, or with discomfort at the sound of squeaking violins. But not all sounds will generate a universal reaction. Some people prefer loud, full sounds, and some people prefer soft sounds. There is both subjectivity and objectivity in the initial reception of music. Also, music contains more complex characteristics which create different atmospheres and serve different functions (commercial, concert, therapeutic, background, hype music, film/theatre, etc). Music has such a large capacity and functionality in our world, so you can't really constrain it by just saying 'this is objective good/bad'. All you can really do is look at its intended function(s) and the technical elements it employs to serve those functions. This is really just agreeing what you already mentioned in the video. But anyway, can't wait for the break down of Kiki's Delivery Service :)
That rap lyric is well-constructed but also absolutely V I L E so if it's possible for something to be amazing and terrible at the same time I would say it was the perfect example.
ok that is it. miraculous ladybug really DOES start like its season 14. ITS SO STRANGE AND IDK WHY BUT ITS SO COMPELLING AND I LITERALLY REMEMBER LOOKING TO SEE IF I MISSED ANY SEASONS
HAHAHAHAHA LITERALLY. They just shove you into the show and then when the origin episodes are the season finale, it all kind of makes sense- the love square, the stark difference in character- it all has a nice pay off XD
yea that's why i was very hooked with it when it first started! it was very nice to start learning about the worldbuilding slowly and it didn't take the audience as stupid, which i liked. and then they ruined all of that in the new seasons and now i hate it to death👍
I’ve brought this up every single time I’ve watched Tangled or anything about it, but Rapunzel would never have discovered her true identity if Mother Gothel had just lied about when her birthday was. Literally she says half of the reason she’s interested in the lights is because they happen on her birthday each year.
the pan and the squishmallow really made the video tbh and yes KIDS ARE AS SMART AS YOU ALLOW THEM TO BE AMEN HALLELUJAH and Aladdin does still slap and i love the way you chaotically explain everything and you sound ANGELIC at the end - the sound and harmonies on "bright" are you KIDDING MEEEEEEEEEEeeeeee (you had a run-on sentence so i did one in soldarity) i love this aaaaaaaa
This is actually how I first saw the movie when I was like 10. My mom accidentally skipped the first chapter and it framed it less like a light hearted fairytale and more like a weird psychological drama. Needless to say 10 year old me wasn't ready for the controlling mom to suddenly become evil incarnate,stab my favorite character,and try to drag her "daughter" away in chains.
👁👄👁 you’re right. We’d be on that journey of discovery with Rapunzel, and anyone who wasn’t already familiar with the original fairytale would have such a shocking plot twist. The series is still better than the movie anyway 😅
Are there really that many people not familiar with the original fairytale. For me this seems like it would be like trying to keep the fact that Romeo and Juliet die at the end a secret.
because when you work with fairy tale magic you don't need to explain it. Also to Mother Gothel a flower or a person have the same value and for the same reason.
this is fascinating and now i almost cant believe that ive never thought of skipping the intro. its a totally different but still brilliant story! also love the frying pan
thank you for making me have a catharsis moment as i’ve had mental health struggles and just got diagnosed with autism and cptsd that i had been steered away from my entire life like abusive people like my mother. my parents are still in denial about verbally and emotionally abusing me, but realizing what was actually going on in my head was the same liberating rapunzel moment and i’m glad i fully appreciate that!
As someone who is hard of hearing, you annunciate so well and I appreciate it. I've never felt like I've accurately heard every single word someone was speaking before. Normally my brain fills in the blanks of what I miss, and it's easier to do with people I know. But I can tell exactly what every consonant you pronounce is and its crazy as I have a particularly hard time differentiating consonants.
I cannot emphasize how incredibly charming you are in every possible way. That story about the day care was so simple and bordering on nonsensical and I was giggling and kicking my little feet 10/10
You look so great but in a way that makes me want to fight you for fun. It's conflict-oriented eroticism.
Thank you for translating my thoughts ♥️🙏
Like Man To Man by Dorian Electra vibes
it feels illegal how accurate this comment is
Fight or flight response but make it sensual
Queer coded villain and heterbro hero
Fun fact: I LIVED this. Right when Tangled came out, my family went to the theater to see it together, but I was running a little late and arrived exactly at the point when we first see Rapunzel in the tower. And I had a totally different experience from everyone else watching the movie. I wasn't super familiar with the original fairy tale, and I legitimately thought that Gothel was Rapunzel's mom. I knew she wasn't very nice, but I also knew this was a Disney movie, so I thought that the mom was going to eventually come to realize that she'd been overprotecting her daughter and that Rapunzel needed to experience the world, despite its dangers. So when Gothel was revealed to be evil, I was shocked! I felt like I was going through the same experience as Rapunzel and really keenly understood the betrayal she was feeling.
In short, I agree with you. I think my experience watching this movie was better because I didn't watch the first five minutes.
That was my exact experience too!! I'm so happy other people lived the mystery of the movie lol
That's honestly so cool
Oh my god I envy thou now 😭😭
I thought you were gonna tell a story about how your life was similar to Rapunzel's i thought i was gonna hear a kidnaping story 😭😭
IT COULD HAVE STARTED THE TWIST VILLAIN TREND
Bonus thought: skipping the first five minutes also frames Mother Gotham's coercive control and abuse in a much more effective way. We start off thinking she's the good guy, the loving (if a little off) mother. We get red flags but... she's her mother, why would she be trying to hurt Rapunzel? And then we realise as Rapunzel does that Mother Gotham has been using and controlling her from the second she got her hands on her. We go through this emotional rollercoaster alongside Rapunzel, so we can empathise so much more with her experience.
mother gotham
honestly i both love the concept that gothel is a twist villain to only rapunzel or the idea that she couldve been a twist to the audience too
@@kakyoin7761 isnt that like batmans house
@@why3994 bro what
As someone who has lived the tangled experience it's a perfect example of gaslighting and being kept from the rest of the world and its affects. The show goes further with it and actually shows how trauma of this kind can really fuck with your mind and become hyper aware of people bad intentions once you leave (her parents try to keep her in the castle because of fear she'll be taken again but gives her reminders of her past)
There is a *bit* of function to the flower: Gothel constantly refers to Rapunzel as "my flower," which tells the audience how she views Rapunzel, not as a daughter or a person, but as an object to replace a lost object
Yesss and then when gothel kisses her head it was her hair and not her forehead just a little fun tidbit
The flower back story could've come later, when Rapunzel confronts Gothel. She could tell the story of why Rapunzel has powers and “justify” the kidnapping.
@@JasminMiettunen Yess and maybe with another evil song from Mother Gothel -- I love evil songs
Hold up I didn't even pick up on that till this comment 😂
plus whenever she shows affection to rapunzel its PURELY directed at her hair, u can see her pat it on several occasions + i think she strokes it when she finds rapunzel
"kids are as smart as you allow them to be" is extremely true and highlights one of the many failings of the education system we use; kids are assumed to be stupid until "taught" to be smart.
It isnt failing tho, its working as intended. For the people that endorse this, Kids should be pure, naive and therefore not "sinful". We live in the middle ages when it comes to this stuff.
20:10
@@roseclouds5838 Baby speak has perks. For example, it holds the child's attention, and speaking slower with more emphasis on vowels and consonants are helpful. However, saying gibberish doesn't gelp at all (things like making up words to mean hungry, etc)
Your parents probably cut out all of the gibberish, which us awesome. My mother-in-law is so annoying with it. She baby speaks to me. I'm 29.
Case in point; Avatar: The Last Airbender.
True for adult learners too. We treat them like they’re “kids” (lacking capacity to understand) while they’re learning, rather than providing information in a structured, nonjudgmental way.
everything I've learned about miraculous ladybug I've learned against my will
Same lol
I watched the show, and yet I could still agree. At this point I’m watching out of obligation.
I’m not a fan, but my curiosity is stronger than my level of dislike.
@@jamietheangryoctopus5938 nooroo, give me a beat
@@jamietheangryoctopus5938 samee!! I hate to admit it but at this point I just HAVE to see Marinette and Adrien finally get together, it's pure torture!
@@jamietheangryoctopus5938 I would just like to warn you about season 3. Just know that it really plays to fan ideas, theories, comics, etc, in a (generally) badly written way. I have no clue about season 4 tho
gothel should have had a line like "oh i can't help it i'm a scorpio" so we realize she's just really into astrology and that's why she wouldn't lie to rapunzel about her birthday
I can excuse child kidnapping, but I draw the line at hiding someone’s birthday
@@kyrroti one may be a crime but the other is just stupid
@@kyrroti sorry for using you as the set up for my dumb joke when it was only really half there lmao
@@emackenzielove how recent these replies are
@@kyrrotiyou can excuse child kidnapping?
POV: I'm three drinks in at a party and I have an opinion I have been dying to express
The exact vibe
Same
That‘s not a point of view, but your point is still correct
@@countcain what do you mean it’s not a point of view?
@@Brocolli_Pizza OP saying „POV: I am three drinks in“ would be incorrect. Correct would be something like „POV: what the guests at a party see when I‘m three drinks in“ or „this video is just me when I‘m three drinks in“. So usually when people say POV they mean who the camera is in that sense. But you can’t be the camera if you are the one talking in front of the camera. I hope my explanation makes sense, English is not my mother tongue.
"Children's media can and should be good"
THANK YOU
I hate it when people excuse filth because "it's made for kids!!" no, it's made to exploit kids (as you said), not "for" them.
maybe this is why Julie and The Phantoms ended up reaching a larger audience than they're intended
Really, really well-made stories for children can end up being doubly entertaining for adults, because the story managed to be good without using sexploitation or lots of gore and explosion. leaving mostly: creativity, suspense and wit.
Dear gods, I'd give a year of my life to see a version of Game of Thrones made by the same director, same actors but pg13. There are several years from middle school that I can do very well without, just pick one.
what is cocomelon
SO TRUE! Like I remember this comment trying to defend STVFOE's horrible finale and bad writing decision by saying that "ItS jUsT fOr KiDs." Like no, the "it's just for kids" argument is just a dumb excuse to avoid criticism.
@@lindamukarakate7511 Never even heard of or knew anything about until twenty seconds ago. Worth watching, in original Brazilian or Netflix remake?
“anything you could lose from skipping the first five minutes of the movie is gained by the power of its absence” that’s SUCH a good quote wow
“Kids are as smart as you allow them to be” from a Boop story is the most profound thing I’ve heard this year, absolutely wonderful job
I didn't understand the story. What did the kid do that blew his mind?
He made two different noises based on whose nose the kid pressed. The kid took this knowledge and then pressed both noses at the same time. The kid took the rules of the game and created a scenario that the TH-camr couldn't respond to. The TH-camr couldn't make both noises at once.
@@leira99k oh wow Lol
The Nose Button Story is literally the best thing ever I am in tears
having gothel's plan be a big reveal to both rapunzel and the audience would've effectively accomplished what disney has clumsily been trying to do with all their twist villains since frozen I'm SO mad
My gosh, she would have been the first twist villain of the modern Disney era...
I kinda want that now
Yeah, I think it would have worked better, especially since we would learn WITH Rapunzel, which makes her story more tragic.
It actually makes me think that there were two creative factions in Disney. One wanted the traditional 'audience knows who's good or bad' and one wanted the new 'twist villain version'. Both groups then got to change the other faction's movie, so we got the intro to Tangled and the mess that was Frozen's late story edits to make Elsa the good guy and Hans the villain.
RIGHT??
Except for one problem with that. Tangled is clearly based on the well known fairytale Rapunzel, which is about a witch who kidnaps a princess and locks her in a tower. Anyone familiar with the story would already know the twist. It'd be fairly obvious.
I think Rapunzel is the only blonde person we see in the whole movie. I’m honestly surprised no one commented on the fact that she looks like that baby in the mosaic when she spent what must have been hours in front of it between getting her hair braided and painting and dancing.
Even if someone said something, that probably won’t convince her yet, she doesn’t have enough reasons to be suspicious. And she already knows she looks like the baby, she saw the mosaic.
I think Tangled would’ve been genuinely horrifying without the first 5 minutes. Like that moment where Rapunzel realizes that Mother Gothel isn’t her mom, it’s such a guttural feeling of Loneliness. Like the feeling of being a stranger in a strange place because even though it’s her childhood home and she’s lived here for years, she realizes it’s not her home. That these things and this person that has been apart of her routine since childhood are simply strangers. Mother Gothel, in the end, is literally just some woman. Rapunzel (and the audience) doesn’t know ANYTHING about her. Other than “she’s Rapunzel’s mother”. So when you take away the only thing we know about Gothel, she is a complete stranger.
But that’s just my perspective
But with the first five minutes, its not like we learn anything that would lessen that loneliness
@@xub2126 no, but it takes the blow away for the audience.
we already Know who Gothel is, so we've got her framed as a villain.
without the first five minutes, we would believe that she is her mother.
Ross Williams oh that makes a lot of sense, didnt think of it like that
@@Ross_mo YEP
@@Ross_mo what’s wrong with that blow? You’re experiencing it with repunzle
Flynn saying "That thing they do for the princess" doesn't give away that the princess was kidnapped
OH MY GOOOOOOAADDD
Yep. Like from rapunzel's perspective it could totally just be a princess who still lives there who gets her own celebration or whatever
Yo I see that Truthwatcher profile pic, Life Before Death my friend.
But it adds to the little info puzzle pieces Rapunzel used to figure everything out. From flynn she knows the lanterns are to celebrate the princess. when she goes there, she doesnt see said princess. She saw the painting of the king and queen holding a green eyed blonde baby with a crown on her head . She could ask where the princess is & what that painting is for, but then the 3 little girls put flowers near the painting and say "its for *the lost* princess". .. so the princess is missing.
Point is, its gradual information being seeped into her mind slowly until every part of the puzzle is put together when she sat on her bed.
@@CryptP exactly she even seems a little shocked when the little girl says “i’m leaving this flower for the lost princess”
This person has shattered the ceiling of what I had previously thought was humanity's capacity for both coolness and intelligence.
me too m8, me too
same
You'll need to check Ro ramdin to know that this type of ppl is just SO COOL across all genres of video essays
I feel like something that is sadly hugely missed by cutting the intro is Mother Gothel's not-so-affectionate nickname for Rapunzel, 'my flower', it so subtly but so powerfully demonstrates how Gothel sees Rapunzel, as nothing more than that source of immortality. I completely agree that there is more gained than lost by cutting the intro, but this really feels like an underrated aspect.
Yes, and when gothel shows affection it’s a kiss on the hair or for comfort petting her hair even in hugs mother gothel will only ‘hug’ the hair
@@juliaingelse2140 Very true and I adore that aspect of her character and writing, but I do think that part isn't lost by cutting the intro personally. It's still such a wonderful aspect though (if you couldn't tell, I adore Tangled, its one of my all time favorite movies)
@@thebestvoice3407 yeah it would only really become something you are aware of the second time you’re watching or when rapunzel realises she is the princess. It would make you wonder about the little pet names but it would make it more interesting. Cause you would always wonder about that but in a good way. (And yes tangled is my favourite movie ever, comfort movie always)
well, if disney *had* skipped the the intro and instead saved it for later, maybe via gothel revealing it to rapunzel that she is the sundrop
those little details begin to jump out at you and make more sense when you rewatch the movie a second time
like, it makes it so that those details don't stand out until you watch the movie a second time and it becomes a movie worth watching a second time and a third time just to make sure you didn't miss everything
and that is honestly what makes a good movie, making you want to rewatch it to capture every detail
That would basically throw off the pacing spades.
Fun fact: I went to see this movie when it came out and we got caught in traffic, resulting in us literally coming in 5 minutes late. I did quite enjoy watching it despite not realizing that everyone else in the theater had a lot more context than me
the same exact thing happened to me !! i missed like 90% of that explanation intro because i was getting snacks and arrived late
yeah, that also happened for me and my brother. when we got the dvd and watched it from the beginning i was so confused of what was happening because i hadn't watches it before😆
A question to all of you: did you feel like he said in the video?
SAME
This happened to me with the lego movie 😑
Love that Eugene is so anti cop. Tangled the series set up a very lovely backstory for WHY he steals and then ruined it by making captain of the royal guard.
I mean Rapunzel is literally the 1%? She’s the future ruler. Unless she makes it a democracy. Also her other bestie is a child of the old captain of the guard.
@@zachanikwano just once id love a story of the defiant monarch heir take the throne and go "we're doing democracy now".
@@zachanikwano TRUE I just didn’t ever read his character as someone who’d Want to be captain of the royal guard? You’d think he’d like.. want to make a change to the system to help kids who grew up the way he did rather than contribute to that same system
@@malum9478 Wreck it Ralph maybe?
@@eugene_rat_slap Yes, I love that moment and I somehow forgot about it? No wonder I gladly saw It twice in the theater
okay but the fact that his video literally had a pointless first five minutes was SO SMART
OHHH LMAO
Oh wow, I skipped the first 5 mins of this video without realizing because I thought, must be one of those random ramblings, get me to the juicy part please.
I was your 420th like *lights blunt*
Wait he did WHAT
I thought "huh, ironic", didn't even realize it was on purpose, lol
the future generation of children shall never know the first five minutes of tangled
Yeah, when I have kids I’m skipping the first 5 minutes.
@@movedchannels1543 same!
Child: what’s in that first five minutes-
Me: it’s dark there. You shall never go there. Not now. You are not ready.
@@evamarias8896ok mother gothel
OH MY GOD the nose boop story and the subsequent rant about "suits" throwing money at terrible productions ostensibly for "the children" IS TRANSCENDENT. Children are raw unformed intelligence seeking any and all input. They are innately brilliant and that brilliance grows commensurate with what you feed it. Thank you, this whole video is incredible but that bit is truly beyond ✨
I'm leaving a comment because I like your words and want to find them again
Woah
Ikr I come back to this video sometimes purely from how captivated I was by the nose boop story (and the general genius of the whole video)
the way he tells the nose boop story is so full of love
You spending 5 minutes talking about anything but Tangled is me writing that extra paragraph in my essay when I need to fill a word count
And your essay is about how having word counts for essays is a silly requirement :D
@@indigoziona right? like whats the point lmao
Huh,,, almost,,, as though,,,, ya know. The first 5 minutes of the video were pointless and you could still watch it and perfectly understand all of it while skipping them?
Didn't expect an in depth analysis of rap lyrics about Gwen Stefani but here for it none the less
Ahaha when he got back to tangled i was like oh yh that's what we were talking about
I love the insanely ADHD process that your sentence structures imply. As a fellow neurodivergent person myself it's hilarious to see someone who thinks like I do.
Right? It's so delightful to listen to. CJ talks faster than any other video essayist I watch and I'm still able to follow them perfectly even through the tangents because Dude That's My Brain Too
YES. I was absolutely shocked to meet another person with the same thought structure as me - and to find that this person doesn't sound like an idiot (as I thought I did) but instead sounds very engaging and intelligent! It opened a whole world for me!
@@XerxesTexasToast this style of presentation is how i personally digest information the best, the sense of urgency in his manic speaking patterns is truly endearing and is so easy for me to understand and relate to, which makes the information he’s conveying way easier for me to digest. my brain works really fast and it always seems like i’m fighting to burst out the copious amounts of information flying thru my head, and it’s so refreshing to see someone who communicates this thru their art
I don't know if I have adhd but the way he speaks is so satisfying to me, like it actively keeps my mind engaged and it's like euphoria.
I immensely enjoy his video essay for this exact reason.... So fun and jam packed of dopamine 🔥
‘Tangled is an acab masterpiece’ is not the take i was expecting from this video but it was the take i needed.
I want to like this comment, but it's at 420 likes
WHY DID I READ THIS AS "ASSIGNED COP AT BIRTH" 😭😭😂😂💀💀💀
666 likea
Except Maximus
@@elianna838 DEADASS BRO I DID THAT SHIT TOO 💀💀
This is exactly how I feel about the song Stacy’s Mom. They repeat the titular phrase over and over at the beginning and it ruins what would have otherwise been a comedic reveal at the chorus.
I completely agree but theres somethibg so fucking hilarious about the sentence ‘This is exactly how I feel about the song Stacy’s Mom.’ fully punctuated and serious
@@unviewsyourmonster8113 if ever there was a place to form a coherent argument about something ridiculous, a CJ the X video comment section is it.
You somehow put into words what made me disappointed in this song for years
Fuck the first however many seconds before the 3 guitar strums in Stacy's Mom.
@@squigg7107 How tho? A MHLF is exactly what I thought the song would be about the moment I saw the title "Stacy's Mom"... because what else could it be?
Instead of the prologue at the beginning narrated by Eugene we could have it right after Rapunzel realized she’s the princess and told by Mother Gothel. It could be super creepy and rewritten along the lines of “the wicked king and queen stole the beautiful magic flower, so I simply took it back...” A completely different feeling and the final nail in the coffin that makes you realize that mother gothel ain’t playin.
I know the frying pan is a tangled reference, but that and the eye makeup and the ranting energy just give this such like 3 AM sleepover vibes and I love it
"the world is not confusing, and its not new. its beautiful and its always been there and youre from there and it was stolen from you." why did this make me burst into tears
yes.
trauma
I knew a woman really difficult and controlling and her YA daughter was really into Diseny's stuff and was a huge fan of Rapunzel and I was like: this makes so much sense.
Help i was at when he said it the moment i see this comment
‘The world is not confusing and it’s not new, it’s beautiful and it’s where you were from and it’s where you belong, it’s been stolen from you.’ Damn this is good, really stood out to me. You’ve got a great way with words. Great video.
without the first 5 minutes, the audience ends up experiencing and learning the mystery elements of rapunzel's life with her.
Suddenly I'm jealous of the people that were 5 minutes late to the movie
Really? You didn’t know the plot of the fairytale (that witch steals Rapunzel) prior?
@@sarasamaletdin4574 i mean.. not really, i just knew there was a girl with really long hair in a tower and assumed the story was like every other fairy tale. so it makes sense she had an evil fake mother, but i didnt actually know that - if i didnt have the first 5 mins - im surprised to say i bet i would have viewed the movie much differently. but its not only that, because this is a remake of the original story, and knowing that, its ought to have its differences, so even if i did know the original story maybe i would have assumed this would take a different approach since Disney adaptations often do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@sarasamaletdin4574 I only knew because of an English class in 7th grade that vaguely mentioned the story. It doesn't come up all that often in casual conversation.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 it's actually not that uncommon, surprisingly few people know the plot of pretty well known fairy tales.
Or maybe that's just me being the German who grew up with these stories I am-
@@sarasamaletdin4574 But the original fairy tale is really different from the introduction, so knowing its story doesn't help that much. In the original her parents are poor people, there is no magical flower and she doesn't get stolen stealthily but given away in exchange for the Lamb's lettuce (Rapunzel) her father steals from the witch. They changed it up so much that they also could have changed the identity of the woman that kept her in the tower.
BTW, regarding that flower, can we talk about how Goethel is "a greedy old lady who wants the flower all to herself" but then when they kill the magic flower to make tea for the queen it is seen as an OK and not greedy at all thing to do?
I guess it’s in the context of being selfless, because it’s to save the life of another rather than to preserve one’s own
I MADE A TIKTOK ABOUT THAT! That is something that bothered me and i think is pro powerful propaganda. If people in power want to live, then its fine, but if a common old woman wants to live then its sinful
@@adrianghandtchi1562sorry but that does _not_ track
I always understood it as because gothel understood how to use the power regenerative (the song) but kept it to herself, it resulted in them destroying the flower because they didn't know the song and therefore didn't understand how to use it without brewing a tea, therefore gothels selfishness directly leads to the selfish destruction of the flower
@@anzaia2164 yeah I assumed the latter, that they didn't know there was a way to activate it
Honestly, if I'm watching this movie blind without the intro and Flynn says "that lantern thing they do for the princess", I'm going to think "Oh, guess the princess likes it when people release a whole bunch of lanterns," because we have no idea that this princess isn't at the capitol, and without the opening no one's going to guess that they just launch a whole bunch of lanterns as a mourning/missing person event because who does that?
Edit: Also THANK YOU for noticing the birthday thing! I love this movie and in general don't think nitpicking accomplishes anything good but I was unlucky enough to realize the first time I watched it, 10 minutes in, "wait, you've been here as long as you can remember and your kidnapper just said 'your birthday was last year' so clearly she doesn't care that much, how do you know when your birthday is?!"
Absoluteyl! When you think about it the movie really hinges on the fact that Gothel keeps her birthday the same, because if she didn't, the lights wouldn't happen on her birthday and she wouldn't be driven to go to see the lights and probably would have just kicked Flynn out of the window or let her mother deal with him when she got home. My proposal: they should have made the lantern ceremony held on the day she disappeared, it makes more sense because Gothel seems like the kind of person who would be like "fuck, I forgot what her real birthday is, oh well, we'll just go from the day I stole her" because she's self-centred and narcissistic, and it would have been a great explanation as to why the lanterns happen on the same day as her "birthday" even though Gothel tried to conceal it in some way. That's just my hot take though.
@@Winterappleby I think that Gothel actually stole Rapunzel on the day she was born. Just late in the day. I do however think that you are right. I've seen the birthday argument before and have always thought that she told her the birthday out of her own narcissism.
She wanted to celebrate reclaiming Rapunzel and the birthday was an easy way to do so. Gothel is always trying to keep up the loving mother charade and so it is very in character to celebrate Rapunzel's birthday pretending it was for her when in reality it was Gothel's own celebration. Also Gothel absolutely celebrates her own birthday so it would be weird for her not to mention Rapunzel's.
It is solely Gothel's own narcissism that led to her giving Rapunzel's actual birthday. She was proud. Proud of her own reclamation of the power that she lost. As Rapunzel is growing up though, now Gothel fears her leaving. I always read the "Can't be your birthday was last year." as a way to keep Rapunzel thinking she is young and needs to be protected, and put off her eventual insistence on having a life.
@@TessaImAMessa Whaaaat? She looked at least like 6 months old though! I mean Disney can be like that, but I for sure thought she was at least a few months old before she stole her. I don't know if they mention in the film when she gets stolen. I think it makes more sense that she was older when she was stolen though, because she eventually remembers her parents faces and the crib she was in, which she definitely wouldn't remember if she was a newborn.
In response to your point that if you don’t watch the first five minutes you wouldn’t know that the princess was missing I’m pretty sure in the montage scene of rapunzel and Flynn in the kingdom rapunzel overhears a child who’s laying down a flower say “it’s for the missing princess”. So Rapunzel (and by extension; the audience) would know that the princess is missing. Plus the mural she’s laying the flower on the ground that shows the princess looks exactly like rapunzel would as a baby.
@@kingofqueens5128 Sure, but that happens a lot later in the movie, solidly in the last 3rd, so you wouldn't know any of that when he first mentions "the lantern thing".
Me, who love the tangled opening: wtf is this video
Me, not even 15 minutes in: shit u right
fr fr, I didn't think I'd agree, but now I'm dying to show the movie to someone who hasn't seen it yet w/o the intro.
Considering how many times Flynn should have died before he was brought back to life I like to imagine her tears just glowed and didn’t do anything and Flynn was just already immortal
99% certain the intro didn't exist til some movie executive got confused when it started and said no one would enjoy it if they didn't know what was happening
The intro was also done and redone at least 3 times. CJ's right--it should've been cut altogether.
Pretty big assumptions tk.
@@fightingmedialounge519 But they were right.
@@limesandlemons1367 your proof?
@@boylettuce1458 that's funny, because normally makes a claim, they have to proof their correct. It they don't care that much, then you shouldn't either.
Fun fact, HAVE TO SHARE: The first time I ever saw Tangled this very thing happened to me unintentionally!
I was going to watch this movie in the theater. Now, due to bad planning, I ended up getting to the theater late (after the opening trailers and about the first 5 mins) so I came into this movie literally blind. And I cannot stress enough how this very thing, singlehandedly elevated my experience of this movie. Oh my god, it was exactly what you describe. I actually ended up forgetting I missed the first five minutes, and started recommending this movie as a Really Smart mystery with a plot twist! Until I saw it again from the beginning, and while I still absolutely love Tangled, I couldn’t help but feel the first 5 mins lessened the story. Long winded way of saying, I LITERALLY EXPERIENCED THIS SCENARIO AND YESS IT FRIKIN WORKS!!!! Thanks for making this!
I kind of envy you...
I think the first time I saw this movie was on a rainy day in elementary school
The first time I saw Tangled I actually missed the first 5 minutes. It was fantastic. I didn’t know why no one else was terrified when the mother turned out to be evil. The second time I watched the movie I saw the intro and was upset they gave everything away.
This came outta nowhere for me in my recommended section and hot damn I loved every second of it.
I second this^^
Same. I'd like to thank the algorithm for bringing me here.
My exact train of thoughts. This was so entertaining
Same
Yeah, it was a pleasant surprise
Taking 5 minutes to actually get to talking about Tangled is an artistic power move.
No joke, I GASPED at the reveal in this. I felt like the world around me was crumbling at the thought of Mother Gothel actually being a TWIST villain, that is utter genius
Flynn Rider said ACAB and I think that was very sexy of him
when?
Yes 😩💅🏾
@@bejewled 🤦 They don't mean literally
and then he becomes captain of the royal guard in the series
@@kittykittybangbang9367 he has lost the rights to his facial hair.
This makes me think of how that one Chris Pratt space movie would have been so much better if it started when the girl wakes up. “Oh god, my capsule malfunctioned but at least this other guy is also awake… wait… he woke me up?!” That’s the twist we needed to discover with her but literally we are told everything that should be a secret to us. Anyway, you get it. It’s wild to me that movies with gigantic crews of people working on it could not see the omissions and reorderings that would be better for the audience.
i’m going to adopt this opinion as a part of my personality. thank you.
Honestly, I kind of like the detail that people CAN come and go from the tower without using Rapunzel's hair (even though it wouldn't make sense before her hair got to be 70 feet long, i.e. when she was a kid). It's just another way that Gothel kept Rapunzel trapped through perception and obedience- both in that she couldn't use her own hair to escape, and that the hair preserves the pair (Gothel through its magic, Rapunzel through withholding entry to the tower). When Flynn gets into the tower without her help, it's not just startling to Rapunzel to see someone besides Gothel at all, it's also another seed of doubt that she's safe here anyway.
WOW. That says something about mothers protecting their daughters’ “flowers” from outside influences-even to the detriment of the daughter and their relationship…
the reveal of rapunzel being a princess is MUCH more impactful when you don’t already know. plus, without the first five minutes, the moments like where she puts on the crown and looks at the mural work like foreshadowing.
How do you remind me of every Breakfast Club character simultaneously in one person please?
But every member of the breakfast club was also every member of the breakfast club. Kinda the point of the film. 😉
(not that I don't agree with your point entirely)
@@joeydeaconblues I am HERE for this discourse. I agree with both of u
@@ryleeburnand9776 the discourse: 2 comments with no other replies
This is the most accurate description and now I can’t unsee it holy crap
This feels like being intoxicated in a room full of affable leftist media arts majors. I love it
Fun fact: Skipping the first 5 minutes was exactly how I first watched the movie! I watched Tangled at the theatre and my dad and I were late (we got inside when Rapunzel was singing "When Will My Life Begin") And I can assure that the experience was absolutely what you would hoped for. I knew that Mother Gothel was suspicious and all, but really thought she would be the type of character that would learn her lesson at the end or something. Like Ariel's father. NOPE! It was great to see the character reveal her intentions slowly.
The commitment to holding the frying pan for the whole duration of the video should be celebrated
The chaotic vibe swinging around the pot to show ode to Tangled with rapidly spoken sentences and zany video chapter titles is exactly the mood I needed today.
Edit: the ending sent me
There's something terrifying about the idea of not knowing you've been kidnapped for 18 years
I appreciate that he casually wielding a frying pan SO MUCH
Are you a fan of the Mother series?
Something I'd deadass do if I didn't risk an ass whooping cuz pans are cherished in this household xDD
Something about hearing someone speak this passionately warms my heart
right it's literally why i rewatch their videos all the time
I’m sure a lot of children were introduced to the Rapunzel story through Tangled. They wouldn’t have any prior knowledge of the original tale. Missed opportunity, how fun for them to discover things with Rapunzel.
I was a kid when tangled came out, and I knew rapunzel
rapunzel is still popular. like the phrase "Repunzel! Repunzel! Let down your hair" is very well known in media in kids.
i remember i was like 6 when tangled came out and some other 6 year old was like "the first 5 minutes ruined it!" i was like "shut up you're six." but now i realize they were right all along. sorry Liam.
Damn I hope that kids into writing or something now
cap af
Is there anyone named Liam that's over the age of 6? It's like how no one younger than 40 is named Karen... I swear we live in a simulation.
Wow, Liam is smart. A..... ssuming you're not fibbing.
I don't have anything to add, this is just a comment for the algorithm. You are probably my new favorite person on youtube though.
Good person, keep being you hon 🙂
I always point out about the movie that it's a plothole that mother Gothel ever told Rapunzel the concept of a birthday, or aging in years, at that. Granted Rapunzel could still be interested in the yearly reoccuring phenomenon.
Also: in the German fairy tale the girl is named after a salat plant.
I GREE
+
even if they wanted to keep the "flower gave her power" plot, they could just show that after Rapunzel realizes, like a voiceover of Gothel just being horrid and selfish towards the flower and then feeling how in some sick way she is owed Rapunzel as a debt. like they could do that
“its got feelsy moments too if you’re not repressing your inner child out of a misplaced need to avoid vulnerability” we’re not even a minute into the video why do u have to call me out like that
LMAOOOO FORREAL
the first 5 minutes feels like executives freaking out the three year olds were confused by the original cut.
"You can't lie to her about her birthday, it's her BIRTHDAY" I'm screaming
I love how Flin's fingers getting caught counts as a death.
He would probably wish to be dead after losing his beautiful-but-kinda-flat hands
sorry to be that person but flynn*
Without the intro, we learn about the world and story of Tangled at the same pace as the protagonist. It makes no sense for Flynn/Eugene to be our pov character. Great video!
I'm really late to this convo but I always thought it would be better to have that first five minutes put after Rapunzel realizes she's the princess back in the tower. They could have had Gothel herself tell the story, angry at the royals for stealing her flower so she stole it back - in the form of Rapunzel. We would get all the backstory they came up with, the flower and everything, but after Rapunzel already came to the conclusion that she was kidnapped. It would also put another layer of devastation onto Rapunzel bc she would learn Gothel never even thought she was special, she never cared for her in any way; she cared about the flower's powers. Then, when the hair is cut and she thinks all hope is lost and her tear heals Eugene is an even bigger twist bc she IS special bc she is cared about. By Eugene. Anyway nobody will see this comment so I just went off for no reason what a great day
Yes so smart, just put the five minutes at a more pivotal time.
I personally think the film should have started off by introducing the kingdom and saying they'll tell a story. A ton of pages are ripped out (like the flower) and we're met with Rapunzel in the tower.
Then that scene is played at the end. It's revealed to us that Rapunzel's parents are morally ambiguous people who will kill plants to keep the queen alive but also didn't intend to cause hurt. It just packs a punch that way.
Morally ambiguous to kill plants to keep someone alive? I guess because it was like the last one alive, so they're directly making the key to immortality an extinct species, but even then that's somewhat justifiable unless they had a specific way to turn it into medicine that can help multiple people or replant it and help the plant species survive (they might have been able to i havent watched tge movie in a while). Otherwise its essentially just sitting there waiting to be plucked while the king watches his wife die. If there was/they knew of a definitive way to help multiple people with the flower and that they would be giving that up for the sake of one person then id be more inclined to agree with you. Still, I'd argue that they'd still be good but desperate people rather than morally ambiguous in nature, as most others in that situation would probably do the same thing. They're actions might have been morally grey though, but not necessarily the characters
If that was what you meant then id understand, but the fact that they were willing to kill a plant to save someone doesn't sound morally ambiguous at all. It sounds like something anyone would do, even sounds like a good thing. We do it all the time in real life, we even eat them for sustenance. It's just that we don't have magic here.
@Carosbee
Don’t underestimate the power of the algorithm, friend 😉
If this guy taught my lectures I would be so hyped the whole time.
You're what I imagine young freddy mercury to be like if he was alive in the 21st century. and that's the best compliment I've ever given
Okay I was literally thinking this too???
@@thatsdree1350 glad I wasn't the only one cause its facts
omg yes? the moment I saw him, I thought "he's giving me Freddy Mercury Vibes"
@@galaxychill9578 ikr
I love that
Even if the audience does figure out what's going on at the earliest possible opportunity then it still is satisfying to piece that together instead of being explained it.
THANK YOU for noticing how often Eugene potentially dies in this movie. My sister and I love the movie a lot, but one day said, “shouldn’t he have died from that frying pan?” That started an inside joke where we counted how many times he got hurt, and we got to 17. Now, when someone in a movie gets hurt, we say, “concussion number 17!”
Edit: I kept waiting for you to accidentally hit yourself in the head with the frying pan like Rapunzel does in the movie.
I would just like to say: I have a cast iron pan and once hit myself with it by accident, and could taste blood for a couple hours but i didn't get actually injured. Then again, if it were a hit with intent it probably would've been different
The scene when she figured it out actually gave me chills holy shit
15:00 it's important to note that our idea of gothel as a sorceress is also informed by the fact that in this movie she's low-key a racist caricature of a Roma, which we culturally associate with duplicitous magic and villainy.
i was today years old when i found out 'stealing blond children for their hair' is something people actually believe romani people do. (i'd always thought of mother gothel as more of a jewish, 'blood libel' reference, if anything)
@@user-qv2qf1jk5o Point _back_ to Disney: in Hunchback of Notre Dame, Esmeralda IS a victim of this notion in the original book. She was made actually Romani in the Disney movie. Something that still needs work, especially with this coming after Hunchback, but still.
@@christopherb501 yeah but then they used the same song as an opportunity to write maybe the most racist song i've ever heard
@@user-qv2qf1jk5o "Am I The Only One" exists, and even looking just to Disney, there's the "both sidesing" in Pocahontas and "We Are Siamese" in the Aristocats. Not pretending the Romani stuff in Disney's Hunchback or elsewhere is "good", just that in this obscenely bigoted world, I'm saving genuine outrage for where it counts.
Also: are you talking Hunchback or Tangled here? And _which_ song, specifically?
@@user-qv2qf1jk5owhat song(s) are you talking about
This actually might have also made the sequel series, Rapunzel's tangles Adventure, even better as well! Imagine if it wasn't confirmed that Rapunzel was the Sundrop Flower until Varian realized it in "The Alchemist Returns" towards the end of Season 1. It would've prolonged the mystery a bit. Even if it would've been obvious by that point, the reveal would've been satisfying.
This IS SO TRUE
No. That would require the story of the series to have been rewritten. What this person is arguing(?) is that the movie was written in such a way, that it would benefit from simply removing the first five minutes.
It does feel like Brave also had unnecessary narration added in at a later time because they think kids are dumb. Disney just self sabotages.
eliquorice made a great video essay detailing how the vision for brave was so conflicted because of studio interference which led to the head of the story stepping down, definitely worth a watch
th-cam.com/video/wRjHL8kbkZk/w-d-xo.html
@@daalimbe Yeah it's pretty tragic. You can tell there's a good movie in there but it was destroyed with fretting over marketability.
@@SaiScribbles Also Disney or Pixar fired the original director (who also directed The Prince of Egypt BTW), and then later on said that "gender has nothing to do with this movie."
Watching Encanto you can tell it suffers from the same opening scene to explain the magic-when in all actuality it removes the tension from Mirabel and Alma’s conflict/resolution. I don’t know why Disney insists on spoon feeding its audience but it’s annoying af.
I haven't watched Encanto yet-how far should I skip to miss the opening exposition?
@@LeticiaF_3.14 I usually start around 410-420 mark. It gets you right where the movie should start.
Maybe it has something to do w the fact that the main audience are kids?? And they're not usually that smart or patient?? Idk just a thought
Did you miss the nose button part?
For Encanto, the opening has a very different effect. It is the watered down version of the story. You think you know what happened but later when Alma and Mirabel are talking, you see how completely devastating that trauma actually was for Alma
this is funny because when i saw tangled for the first time i was 5 minutes late to the cinema
DID YOU HAVE THE MYSTERY EXPERIENCE
WE MUST KNOW WAS IT BETTER THE FIRST TIME
alas, it was over ten years and i dont remember. also ive seen it too many times since
Awe man, real life is so disappointing
Omg me too! I was like six and I made my whole family late lol.
especially gothel being even creepier without the first five minutes is so good
I always thought her villain song was very low energy for a disney villain song... not all can be as epic as hellfire, but still... however, if you want to hint at her villainy while making her appear as potentially an OK but misguided mother, well then the song being more subdued actually works pretty well.
@@maximeteppe7627 I agree. The reprise of Mother Knows Best was pretty good though, just a bit too short. But at least it was more bombastic.
The first five minutes feels like a weird last minute attachment. The movie is so well structured around the mystery, the spoilers at the start really crash it.
If I ever have kids I’m definitely trying this method out and crossing my fingers they won’t hear the Rapunzel story from other sources beforehand.
Same!
The “I am the lost princess” scene will be SO ICONIC to them. Especially cuz children are not the best at picking up mystery clues/tropes and would probably be figuring it out real time with her.
the only part that wouldn't work would be at the end where Eugene says whatever about this being the story of how he died or any time they mention a flower
@@syra1541 they never mention the flower iirc, but ye the narration is an F
@@tacomeat5689 oh they don't? my memory often fails me
every once in a while youtube’s algorithm just gets it right and recommends to me the perfect video by a creator I never knew existed and which I will now binge all of their videos...and this was one of those times
perfect example of "show dont tell". the ultimate climax of a story should shake the audience to their CORE and make em feel like a genius at the same time. just gimme that sweet mystery juice man, ill slurp that shit up like nobody's business
aS a mUiSic sTuDenT, I absolutely vibe with the whole 'music can be both subjective and objective' view. Humans are predisposed to have certain reactions to certain types of music. Pretty much everyone will respond with shock to a loud and sudden noise, or with discomfort at the sound of squeaking violins. But not all sounds will generate a universal reaction. Some people prefer loud, full sounds, and some people prefer soft sounds. There is both subjectivity and objectivity in the initial reception of music.
Also, music contains more complex characteristics which create different atmospheres and serve different functions (commercial, concert, therapeutic, background, hype music, film/theatre, etc). Music has such a large capacity and functionality in our world, so you can't really constrain it by just saying 'this is objective good/bad'. All you can really do is look at its intended function(s) and the technical elements it employs to serve those functions. This is really just agreeing what you already mentioned in the video.
But anyway, can't wait for the break down of Kiki's Delivery Service :)
That rap lyric is well-constructed but also absolutely V I L E so if it's possible for something to be amazing and terrible at the same time I would say it was the perfect example.
ok that is it. miraculous ladybug really DOES start like its season 14. ITS SO STRANGE AND IDK WHY BUT ITS SO COMPELLING AND I LITERALLY REMEMBER LOOKING TO SEE IF I MISSED ANY SEASONS
HAHAHAHAHA LITERALLY. They just shove you into the show and then when the origin episodes are the season finale, it all kind of makes sense- the love square, the stark difference in character- it all has a nice pay off XD
yea that's why i was very hooked with it when it first started! it was very nice to start learning about the worldbuilding slowly and it didn't take the audience as stupid, which i liked.
and then they ruined all of that in the new seasons and now i hate it to death👍
Literally the very reason it’s so easy to binge
I’ve brought this up every single time I’ve watched Tangled or anything about it, but Rapunzel would never have discovered her true identity if Mother Gothel had just lied about when her birthday was. Literally she says half of the reason she’s interested in the lights is because they happen on her birthday each year.
i feel she would still believe its for her even if it wasn't on her birthday, some things are too magnetic to not be discovered
i feel like im sitting in the corner at a houseparty and your special interest came up and you're just going and it is, honestly, the best
the pan and the squishmallow really made the video tbh and yes KIDS ARE AS SMART AS YOU ALLOW THEM TO BE AMEN HALLELUJAH and Aladdin does still slap and i love the way you chaotically explain everything and you sound ANGELIC at the end - the sound and harmonies on "bright" are you KIDDING MEEEEEEEEEEeeeeee (you had a run-on sentence so i did one in soldarity) i love this aaaaaaaa
This is actually how I first saw the movie when I was like 10. My mom accidentally skipped the first chapter and it framed it less like a light hearted fairytale and more like a weird psychological drama. Needless to say 10 year old me wasn't ready for the controlling mom to suddenly become evil incarnate,stab my favorite character,and try to drag her "daughter" away in chains.
I love how this video essay about one of my favourite movies has another mini video essay hidden inside about one of my favourite series (ladybug)
He has another video on it now.
👁👄👁 you’re right. We’d be on that journey of discovery with Rapunzel, and anyone who wasn’t already familiar with the original fairytale would have such a shocking plot twist.
The series is still better than the movie anyway 😅
At least the first half and the ending are... I feel like they could've done more with Cass
Are there really that many people not familiar with the original fairytale. For me this seems like it would be like trying to keep the fact that Romeo and Juliet die at the end a secret.
I thought the series was terrible 💀
Love seeing my fave punzie
cosplayer agree w this, yesss
The series ruined Eugene and it couldn’t decide weather it was for teenagers or little kids
i cant wait for this channel to blow up omg
RIS i love your videos :)
idk who is this person, but their vibes are amazing
I never realized just how insignificant the flower story really is to the movie
because when you work with fairy tale magic you don't need to explain it. Also to Mother Gothel a flower or a person have the same value and for the same reason.
Not necessarily. Explaination are suppose to tie back into the narrative which the flower plot does by being updated version of the vegetable plot.
this is fascinating and now i almost cant believe that ive never thought of skipping the intro. its a totally different but still brilliant story! also love the frying pan
Hi fellow Emma B lol
@@cringeproof100 omg hello
"These earrings aren't mine, their my moms. I can't afford shit like this."
I mean if more iconic words have ever been spoken, I think I would know...
i didnt get why you were holding the frying pan until 20 mins in i just kinda accepted it. smh i'm so disappointed in myself
Lmao in tangled it's a weapon. Tbh I love frying-pan-weapon-wielding energy 😂
*So, when the LORE kicks in-*
@@nolongervisible5850 true 😂
Same lmao
This is the first video ive seen from this guy so i just went “Eh that must be his thing” for like the first 10 minutes.
thank you for making me have a catharsis moment as i’ve had mental health struggles and just got diagnosed with autism and cptsd that i had been steered away from my entire life like abusive people like my mother. my parents are still in denial about verbally and emotionally abusing me, but realizing what was actually going on in my head was the same liberating rapunzel moment and i’m glad i fully appreciate that!
*from and thank you for putting out these videos if you ever see this they are a delight
When you said that not trying for a kids' movie is a form of exploitation you blew my fucking mind
As someone who is hard of hearing, you annunciate so well and I appreciate it.
I've never felt like I've accurately heard every single word someone was speaking before. Normally my brain fills in the blanks of what I miss, and it's easier to do with people I know. But I can tell exactly what every consonant you pronounce is and its crazy as I have a particularly hard time differentiating consonants.
I cannot emphasize how incredibly charming you are in every possible way. That story about the day care was so simple and bordering on nonsensical and I was giggling and kicking my little feet 10/10
I need to find someone who’s never watched tangled
I love how this lowkey sounds like a threat. Go, find your guinea pig.
@@zoeb3573 ☺️☺️☺️