One thing I would love to see is you do 3-5 runs on the exact same set up and power to see the natural variation in laps. That would add clarity to a 5 second difference in your testing.
Yeah, really enjoying these tests, but I also think that given the short course length and marginal savings, multiple runs would be necessary to see whether they are within the margin of error.
@@weltverloren6277 very true. NorCal is not super clear on the number of runs. Also there is some natural small variation in runs like did he have to take a slightly wider line one lap that cost him 1 second and so on. Several runs on the same set up would set a variation baseline based on his exact test equipment and methodology.
How is that a $4000 bike? Isn’t that a $1900 frame, $1600 wheels, $2000 groupset (Red axs?), $600 bars, + not low end saddle, tires, pedals,… I think thats more like a $6000+ bike.
I appreciate these videos Jeff! Having ridden/tested frames from the likes of Winspace, Yoeleo, and then purchasing a Giant Propel Advanced Pro...there are discernible differences. But not as significant as one may think. The T1500 is an entire value proposition is is difficult to beat.
What it all goes to show is that any given bike is barely any faster or slower than any other at a high level. Diminishing returns for your money are massive once you go past a certain point.
@shepshape2585 making your position the same on multiple bikes, and another person the same on multiple bikes won't always result in finding the same fastest bike. The bulk of that being how your legs interact with the bottom bracket and everything behind it. I've seen some weird things doing bike fits in the wind tunnel.
My first bike was a Van Rysel Ultra CF with Ican wheels. 2 years after i was dreaming about an aero bike and saw few videos of the Winspace T1500 on youtube 3 years ago (specially on Charles Ouimet channel). I bought it with the Hypers 50mm wheel set, built it with an Ultegra 11 speed mechanical groupset, Prime Primevera aero carbon bar, Zipp carbon stem etc... I will never buy a big brand name frame set or wheel set, i'm so happy with what i have for the money i spent !
@@chrisdelaplante5515 I use to work at Decathlon for 5 year in the bicycle section. All of their brands are almost unbeatable for the money ! I only buy Van Rysel jerseys !
@@krenmodelcek227 I buy it at Decathlon, in Réunion Island where i live. The bike was initialy sold at 3300 euros here but for some reasons they sold it for 1300 euros, new one.
Jeff you know what I think would be a cool test: get some of your buddies to ride around a loop at a fixed speed while you draft behind them. Test if different bikes take different amount of watts to do the same speed. I feel like I have only heard speculation about whether aero features matter at all when you're in a good draft. ie: is a totally non aero-optimized bike any worse when you're drafting?
This test can't yield correct results because draft will be variable all the time, two riders are not machines with robotic precision and results will be incorrect. But,..i can tell you that the wind that rider gets in draft - is slower, which means that aerodynamics matter less as well. So let's say they go 40kph the drafting may face only 27-30kph, which is very significant difference in air resistance, and thus lower demand from bike at all. So overall - all these ultra experience bikes do not give you speed benefits. It's just a business, nothing more
Paintjob (Scott), my ass. English speaking customer service is exellent at Winspace. Bought a wheelset from them, and also asked a lot of questions about bikes. Answers right away, and with flawless grammar.
My experience with Winspace has been outstanding as well. They spoke perfect English in email, were courteous, and overcommunicated comparatively speaking. I bought their wheels and the product is outstanding.
@@furioustacosI had no problems with Winspace with replies or English barriers. IMO, good customer service. I didn’t buy a T1500, but a G2. The quality I saw inside the tubes were great. Been riding it for nearly 2 years without any complaints. Including the Lun wheels. Lots of miles and long journeys. It’s not the service imo. It’s building the bike from scratch. I did all my work by myself.
I broke my Foil handlebars at nationals last year. I ordered a new pair in August which were said to be on backorder until December. A few months later they said April, in April they told me August. I’ve been towards the front of their waitlist for a while so I think the Syncros handlebar problem is worse than most people realize.
Compared to the Scott, Winspace does offer "crash protection"... just buy two Winspace bikes with one being a "crash backup" and you'll still come-out money ahead from the Scott!
You need to test your suspicion. I think the design criteria for aero "gains" tends to be at the 40kph or higher range. We know aerodynamics changes at speed. Tooling around at 20-22mph won't be the same as race speeds, which I would argue at men's elite level would start around 25mph up to about 30mph depending on the course. It would be great to see the same test at "race speeds". I know that's tough as far as pushing those watts solo for 15 minutes at a time, but would still be great to see that kind of test for the guys who really spend time off the front or in the wind where aerodynamics matters a whole lot. If you are sitting in the peloton, it won't make much difference at all.
If their results are accurate, I'm about 99% sure that going a bit faster is not going to move the Scott ahead. The Winspace has a pretty good lead. This sort of testing is inherently inaccurate/imprecise though due to variables like wind, position, path. Getting the position exactly the same and holding that position is really tough. I like it when they have two riders testing at the same time as this helps a little. More runs would help too, as this should demonstrate the level of consistency.
270w is pretty representative of what a domestique will hold on the front of the peloton all day before it gets spicy. I weigh 78kg and 270 gets me well over 40kph on a nice road so I think he chose a good power
@@carlosflanders518 hmmm I’d say I was average? Ollie from gcn hit well over 50kph on his TT bike at 320! On my TT bike my lowest power to go reasonably fast was 240 to do 41kph, but that was extremely uncomfortable for me and I had shoulder and stomach pain lol. Just to be clear 270 would get me above 40kph on my road bike easily.
Good video, Scott still use those ridiculously wide bars where on your Winspace they are nice and narrow. I have found narrow bars to make a massive difference.
If you need a longer stem on the Scott foil you have to pay what I paid for my entire bike. Nice proprietary Lock in. Double check your tire width tests. Repeated testing has shown that what's most important is that the tire makes a smooth transition for the air to the rim. Wider tires are certainly not faster when narrower tires transition smoothly.
For vast majority of amateur riders who can't go solo at 40 km/h for considerable time - very marginal gains. Yet almost every bike seller highlits aero advantages (a frame, a cable-free cockpit, even pedals), kind of silly development.
Seems you do not understand the difference between airspeed and ground speed. Bike sitting in a wind tunnel has 0 ground speed and 30 mph air speed. Bike travelling at 20 mph ground speed into 10 mph headwind sees 30 mph airspeed and hence it benefits from aero.
I haven't heard English or tech/sales support to be difficult with Winspace, if anything, it's been really good. A better experience than what my friends had to deal with when their Scott mountain bikes had broken chainstays. They were both forced to buy aluminum rear triangles for their Scott Sparks and waited almost 8 months for the LBS to get their act together to warranty the carbon rear triangles from Scott. Just to be clear, though, none of my friends have had issues with their Winspace or Yeoleo bikes, just lots of back and forth communication to verify proper spec's.
@@macvos its needs to be some steel touring frame, but still light. I have one exactly like that, Titan brand (Swiss/Italian made), light and stiff and can fit like 40mm
I believe you explained the entire narrative perfectly....all of it. I didn't expect much difference between these two bikes and of course, there isn't much. But for those less fit than you which is me and most, the compliancy of the Scott matters for fatigue, perhaps greatly due to reduced pedal forces and more road harshness telegraphed to the body for those that don't lay down the watts like you do Jeff which is most, you being an elite amateur racer. Not much difference between these wheels as somewhat expected at lower speeds tested at sub 300 watts and related road speed. The 'hype' and difference between aero performance which again you properly touched upon is amplifed at 'higher speed' which weaker riders like myself don't spend much time at, but you do in your crit racing. All makes sense and thank you for your video....including wider tires being faster.
I'm sorry I like aero frames but I cannot go disc brakes for crit racing. Disc brakes are good for the casual rider who doesn't care about aerodynamics and does some big descents. It's been proven that the discs are less aero than rim brakes and the stopping force can lead to crashes when braking too hard. Even pros have went over their bars from disc brake hard braking. If I were to build an aero frame for crits, I would find an aero frame that supports rim brakes and have a lighter, more aero bike overall than a disc brake bike.
@@rolffuchs2737 also the first wheelset upgrade I got for crit racing had 50 mm rims for more aerodynamics but now I realize that lighter, shallower wheels accelerate faster out of the corners and deal with crosswinds better making shallow rims the best for crits imo.
@@rolffuchs2737 the more I race the more I realize that crits are all about drafting efficiently and cornering so aerodynamics don't really matter unless you're a breakaway rider or a guy riding in the front
Cool vid, a couple things but first disclaimer: not advocating for one bike or the other, just pointing out a few potential biases with these types of tests. 1) mentioned in another comment, but doing multiple laps in each condition would help give a sense of how much lap to lap variability there is and maybe control for some of the environmental things like body position, wind etc. 2) show us normalized power too! Are you spending most of your time at low power while making big accelerations over bumps in your 5 mile loop? Are you pedaling on the downhills? I assume you are aiming for consistent power throughout but nP would show how consistent this is. 3) usually the performance gains from the super aero bikes come at the top end, when you’re pushing up against maximum wind resistance. It would be cool to see some top end comparisons as well. 4) would be great to see psi and all the other little variables that could effect performance - how tall are you in a neutral position on each bike? How wide are the bars? Maybe this is over the top but as long as we are geeking out about the aerodynamics…. Love these types of videos though, and i have to agree that its hard to argue buying the $11000 bike strictly for performance reasons for most riders!
Hey Jeff. If you were to buy the Winspace as a fully built bike with a top end groupset/wheelset from an incountry agent/reseller it would be a fair bit more than $4k. Not least the retailer markup. Also with a Scott you get a 5 year warranty and can purchase a frame at half price if you break it. I think that closes the gap between the two, not all the way of course, Swiss made products are always pricey.
Thanks for more great “real world” content. Another great push back against the need to spend a million to get faster in real life. It is so refreshing to actually see someone ride IRL than in the imaginary land that is the wind tunnel. Thanks
It's not perfectly easy to conclude since theres an overall negative correlation between run # and time (results may be biased by run order due to change in weather conditions or something else), but the winspace appears faster. This could have been fixed by doing just one more run with the scott + 50mm wheels since it appears the slowest, and so would either break the correlation if theres no run order bias or continue the negative correlation if there is. I have to think if you throw 32mm tires on the winspace, it would be even more so, which you cant do with the scott. Plus that might help the comfort issue. Sweet video.
my new canyon aeroad has a proprietary cockpit too. older version didn't, but...big pain in the ass, especially since the cockpit isn't sold for individual purchase
It would be likely the lower spec version of the Scott would have the same frame design with lower spec, heavier components, might be a good comparison
i think the question for the people not the crit racing or pub club cyclist is 11k going to save you the 10 secs from the best to worst (in this test) or can you make a case for doing 15-25 more watts say 2 a days for more leg conditioning or better core strength zone training for a cardio platform?
id like to see 2012-15 s works tarmac or cannondale supesix evo same era , rim brake obviously...in comparison to a modern bike....because in my own experience I still give the nod to what some would refer to as old school......so yeh...old school vs modern
Glad to see you now actually listened to your viewers and swapped the wheel so that we can know exactly what's responsible for what. I remember then i left a criticizing comment just about this wheel thing on your then Specialized bike review once. However now this one I have nothing to say, fair and clear! I think the result is really interesting, the Scott looks incredible and does indeed looks "very aero". But that Winspace is even more incredible. It looks very plain -- there are tons of similar bikes there, and I believe they didn't test it in a wind tunnel at all. This makes me wondering, how does all those similar bikes compare??? It seems we have reached some plateau of aero bikes. You know what I mean, they all have similar feature and looks almost the same. If you can source some of these bikes, and just do some test exactly like this one, you'll make the cycling community more good than any of other TH-camrs. Another thing is it will be even more interesting to see Winspace "knock-offs" in the future -- USD 4000 is still a lot of money. Chinese factories can easily cut that to half (I live in China, I just know, that's how they operate on the domestic market, oversee market is considered "profit gold mine"). If something comes at USD 2000 with something that is a little bit less stiff and maybe some cheaper groupset stuff, it will become very interesting.. For me all I care is that aero frame, that's what makes you faster, not that stupid shifters that costs a grand. I'll be more than happy even if it's still 10 speed because aerodynamically it will be the same!
An interesting bonus comparison would be comparing the bikes with their optimum tyre setup. If one can run wider tyres than the other and be much faster with wider tyres then surely that's the bike to go for if you're chasing performance? In the case of the Winspace this could also possibly nullify the comfort disadvantage.
Might be hard to test but I've always wanted to know the effect that cross-chaining vs efficient drive train alignment. IE little ring, little sprocket vs big ring little, sprocket or something similar
Could you please provide a review of the Polygon Helios AX9 bicycle? It is an all-carbon, all-rounder bike that is available at half the price of high-end brands. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Try and get a Elves Falath Evo 2023 with the wheelset TH50D, would like to here your opinion on that bike setup. Got 1600 miles on mine, and im lovin it more every time i ride it. Built it with a 105 DI2 and Assioma Duo pedals, comes in at 8,36kg with Gamin mount and bottlecages, for around 3200 bucks for the full build.
When it comes to the Scott, you will have better luck finding a Winspace sold at a US dealer (yes there are bike shops across the US that sell Winspace in the shop) than the Scott. Scott's high end bikes are like unobtanium and ordering one is quoted at 8+months. I always amazed when I see someone post one, because I and others I've know went hunting and couldn't even find a whiff of carbon when looking for their top spec road and gravel frames.
Honestly, stiffness (in favor of the Winspace) was probably the determining factor here. More of that power in the pedals is making it to the wheel/road.
THANK YOU. I have been waiting for a video like this. I see some people spending $8k+ on a bike just to be on a group ride and always wondered if is worth it. Staying with 50mm wheels just for the climbing.
Great video. 👍 I've seen a recent video of a scott dealer in the US who was very disappointed with Scott's after sales service and supply chain . Just because they are close doesn't necessarily mean great service
To me, ride quality is what matters the most. If we started comparing bikes only with how fast they are, we shall end up with no results for the general consumer who barely rides at 30 kmph average for a 50 km course. I get the same speed on my Trek Madone and my friends' orbea orca and Propel but the ride quality on my Madone feels so much better. In terms of speed, any bike after 5K USD will give you the same speed. Imo 5K usd is the sweet spot for input output value right now.
One part about the English speaking people at Winspace, well I have never had a problem as customer service is wonderful. The Winspace is stiff yet I like the snappiness of the rear when putting power down. The speed bump or lack of quality falls squarely in the Scott frame. The frames are far from good. Yes, they can make pretty paint jobs but look inside or look at one after a crash to see the lack of quality is cringe worthy. Most racers only keep a bike for 1-2 years which is fine. Let the second owner deal with the frame cracking. I no longer race as gray hair and passing 50. My view is I want a bike I can do 45-55 miles at a time(2-3x a week) and hold onto for 5-10 years.
Hey Jeff, if I remember right you used to wear an Evade 3, would love to see a comparison between the Kask and Evade and any other aero road helmets, I would expect you won't be able to see differences in speed but comments on comfort and ventilation for some various road helmets would be good. The POC Ventral, Specialized Propero 4 and Trek Ballista would be some other good comparisons if you can get your hands on them.
A test that would love to see is how much difference in speed there is between a high end road bike against a high end mountain bike. Obviously the road bike will be much faster, but seeing how big the difference is will be interesting. Especially if both tests can be done in an aero position. And another one that I would love to see is a high end mountain bike against a high end gravel bike on a gravel road. But I guess that won't happen on a crit racing channel lol.
If you could ever get your hands on the Wheeltop EDS electronic shifting, I'd love to hear a review on that compared to a Shimano or SRAM group. I know it's not available in US, but maybe as a "review kit" it's possible. The fact that it's available in a rim brake version for older frames is appealing. thanks for the creative content!!
That was awesome.I run wind space wheels on my bike.I have an obey orca I run the D45 and the D67.All depends how windy it is outside.Because I live in las vegas
I don’t care about the price difference, that Scott is by far the best looking bike in the peloton. I’m sure you can get it cheaper if you shop around too. I’d love to see what you think of the Scott’s ride quality with the “solid” seatpost fitted.
Is the durability of the carbon another factor in the price difference? I have a carbon REI Co-Op road bike and the frame is made in china. I’ve had it for about 3 years and some of the carbon has chipped away on the rear triangle. Still safe to ride but more of a cosmetic issue
Most of these well known brands who are pushing these fast aero bikes are branded for the pro's. Take into consideration that most pro races average 170km+ with the monuments coming at close to 300km, with speeds averaging 45km/h+.. Most cyclists would average 30-35km/h on their 100-120km ride with moderate elevation. The gains for the "fastest aero bike" would be noticed at way higher speeds.. And for the paint job, well you can buy the winspace and take it for custom painting and still end up cheaper than the scott. What does all this mean? nothing really.. if you like the scott for any reason and can afford it then buy it i guess..
Wait, I think we're failing to consider time gained over time though, right? Ostensibly, wouldn't the 10s gain on the Winspace 67mm vs the Scott 50mm add up really quick in a crit setting? That's basically a minute gap in six laps of this loop, yeah?
I have the G2 gravel frame from Winspace and I have both road and offroad wheelsets and I can confirm that it's indeed really stiff, not only the T1550. :D
Love your stuff Jeff but a little upset with your claims of better English support from Scott unless you have experience/evidence that can back you up on this. Otherwise I fear that you might be just jumping to conclusions with unintentional prejudice. I myself have 2 wheelsets from Winspace and their customer support has been first class. Meanwhile I have had worse examples of support from the likes of Trek - so a lot of the time it's not exactly as one would expect...
I bought a lower end generic frame, it’s a Tarmac SL6 copy. Stiffest bike I’ve ever ridden! Almost unbearable after a couple hours, but I am 54. My guess some generic frame they put carbon fiber in a mold without regards to ride quality. Basically just building a bike.🤷🏻♂️
@@richardggeorge it’s a Velobuild R-086. It’s a fast bike and would be a great race bike. If I raced. You mash the pedals it goes. I have an aluminum Jamis Icon. It rides great
I have to admit that I'm from the Stone Age (or is it the stoner age), but the idea of a one piece $600 bar/stem, seems insane. For me, it was always Bar plus stem. I also can't get my head around 32mm race tires. I never even used 25mm Tubs for race tires. Just 22mm. Time marches on.
Your also testing it TT style, but it's not a TT bike. I want to see real world tests. Compare it in a bunch or pace line. I think people forget abbot that. How much difference does aero make in the bunch? How long are you actually in the wind?
i'd like to run that test but it's not feasible to carry out that test while controlling for the variables, like how much draft am I getting? if either of us change our position by just millimeters it affects the amount of draft. in the end, wind resistance (drag) is the primary opposing force even when drafting, so these test translate to bunch riding
Im gonna be real here. For anyone getting into racing. Buy the new trek emonda alr and upgrade the wheelset on it and bars etc to your bikefit. Its probably the cheapest and best bike on the market right now for the value you get
Nice, I would love to see efficiency comparative tests over different incline grades, personal experience: a 80% incline sends any road group-set gear ratio to the bin, but i always wondered about the efficiency when a jogger can keep a cyclist pace no problem in a hard uphill
Amazing video ! I think it will be intresting to test the new tarmac sl8 against a real aero bike like the scott foil and to see what would be the best option: a real aero bike or a allround comfort bike.
The Scott engineers all gave a collective groan watching this. Pretty much any road frame with aero wheels is gonna come in within 5-10s over a 14min course at 20-22mph. These are race bikes! If you want to really compare em, you've gotta go race speeds. We all know you're capable of doing 4x15 at 350w (or more). Let's see what happens when you're going 30mph next time.
I'll tell you even better. On my usual 65 km / 1100 m elevation route the difference between avg speed is in the range of margin for error between my Canyon Grizl with 45 mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel tires and my Tarmac SL8 with Roval Rapide CLX wheels and 28 mm Specialized Turbo tires. I've got a (true one hour) FTP of 270'ish watts, so for an average Joe like me who isn't racing crits, and given the low rolling resistance of modern gravel / allroad tires, even the question of race vs gravel starts to become moot, let alone expensive vs "cheap" road.
A suggestion is to compare a top aluminum bike verse a carbon bike for crit racing. Like comparing specialized allez sprint verse S-works for crit racing.
from all China brand i have. i call Winspace is the best bike. i use Cervelo soloist, i also ride pardus Robin evo, then the last i use LItespeed TI bike, but for now Winspace Agile is my favorite. for people out there who now become old rider. i very recommend this bike from Winspace Agile it very good for old man back. this bike are a combination between shock absorber and verygood climb bike the acceleration is like never i taste before. Pardus Robin evo is also climbing bike but compare with Win Agile Robin road damping quality is not as good as Win Agile in some situation Pardus is very rough, for long ride i test Win agile for 280Kilo ride this bike is a beast it far more comfort than my robin. for city ride pack with traffic you will feel the benefit using Win Agile, it fast it comfort, with new force it very light bike. i never use T1550. but seen my agile this brand will be the next High end killer. it very good bike.
Very true for most riders you don't need 10-15k bike, maybe why I see them for sale especially if they are married!!! Awesome testing in the real world 👌
someone that understands....looks like windspace is a bit of a lower bike when compared to the foil. windspace stack is 561mm vs foil 568 that alone could mean rider is sitting higher and at same watts less aero advantage hence less speed.
If the idea is that the Scott shows its value at higher speeds, then I think you need to repeat the tests at higher speeds - maybe a shorter loop at 350 watts? Or, to really control variables, find a velodrome?
Please test Pinarello Dogma X vs some of the other high end endurance bikes. Like the new Giant Defy with SRAM red axs, or canyon , BMC, etc.etc.. Please do it before I pull the trigger on an endurance bike! Help ..
These bikes don't actually weigh 17KG, that should be in pounds 😂
I just wanted to ask whether your weights are ok?…😂
I was just going to comment, I was like 16 kg? Jesus that’s very heavy for a 11 thousand bicycle. lol
You shocked me there for a second.
My steel touring bike with all the steel racks is 14kg, must be a climbing bike compared to this 😂
"What does an 11,000lb bike weigh..?" 🤣🤣
Actual Weight:
Scott Foil: 7.62 kg
Winspace: 7.89 kg
Nahhh 16.8kg is the real weight 🤣🤣🤣
@@bernardo9202the extra weight comes from the tumor they found in this guys head. I’m sure he is brain damaged.
Ahhh I was just wondering how could these be so outrageously heavy
Thought so. When I saw the weight in the video I was really shocked xD
just opened the comment to double check that 💀
One thing I would love to see is you do 3-5 runs on the exact same set up and power to see the natural variation in laps. That would add clarity to a 5 second difference in your testing.
spoiler alert
Yeah, really enjoying these tests, but I also think that given the short course length and marginal savings, multiple runs would be necessary to see whether they are within the margin of error.
@@weltverloren6277 very true. NorCal is not super clear on the number of runs. Also there is some natural small variation in runs like did he have to take a slightly wider line one lap that cost him 1 second and so on. Several runs on the same set up would set a variation baseline based on his exact test equipment and methodology.
What you can clearly see is that there are only extremely marginal differences. You're looking for huge differences that simply aren't there
How is that a $4000 bike? Isn’t that a $1900 frame, $1600 wheels, $2000 groupset (Red axs?), $600 bars, + not low end saddle, tires, pedals,… I think thats more like a $6000+ bike.
I appreciate these videos Jeff! Having ridden/tested frames from the likes of Winspace, Yoeleo, and then purchasing a Giant Propel Advanced Pro...there are discernible differences. But not as significant as one may think. The T1500 is an entire value proposition is is difficult to beat.
What it all goes to show is that any given bike is barely any faster or slower than any other at a high level. Diminishing returns for your money are massive once you go past a certain point.
yep
Absolutely right.
These are two bikes, there's still sizeable differences from others. And those differences also won't be the same for every rider.
@@veganpotterthevegan I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say. Could you be more specific please?
@shepshape2585 making your position the same on multiple bikes, and another person the same on multiple bikes won't always result in finding the same fastest bike. The bulk of that being how your legs interact with the bottom bracket and everything behind it. I've seen some weird things doing bike fits in the wind tunnel.
Americans trying to use the metric system
Wtf is a kilometer anyways?
1000m @@thenoclue90
@@thenoclue90 it's about 167 bald eagle wing spans (which is a standard unit of measure over there)
😂😂😂
@@thenoclue90 1670 freedom units
I would love to see a video about a race gravel bike (e.g. Crux) with road wheels & tires vs. a road bike (e.g. Tarmac)
Me too, use my ROSE Backroad CF with Zipp 303s and Conti 5000 STR in 28/30mm as racebike setup and love it.
When I see proprietary, I run the other direction.
My first bike was a Van Rysel Ultra CF with Ican wheels.
2 years after i was dreaming about an aero bike and saw few videos of the Winspace T1500 on youtube 3 years ago (specially on Charles Ouimet channel).
I bought it with the Hypers 50mm wheel set, built it with an Ultegra 11 speed mechanical groupset, Prime Primevera aero carbon bar, Zipp carbon stem etc...
I will never buy a big brand name frame set or wheel set, i'm so happy with what i have for the money i spent !
i just bought a new Van Rysel EDR CF with fulcrum racing zero wheels, ultegra groupset for 1300 euros !
@@chrisdelaplante5515 I use to work at Decathlon for 5 year in the bicycle section.
All of their brands are almost unbeatable for the money !
I only buy Van Rysel jerseys !
@@chrisdelaplante5515 where did you buy it from
@@krenmodelcek227 I buy it at Decathlon, in Réunion Island where i live. The bike was initialy sold at 3300 euros here but for some reasons they sold it for 1300 euros, new one.
@@chrisdelaplante5515 Thanks for replying. Great price I saw people selling used ones on buycycle for more than that. How would you rate the bike?
Summary: all results are within margin of error.
Lmao
These videos are to appease marketers and entertain.
Except for the price.
Jeff you know what I think would be a cool test: get some of your buddies to ride around a loop at a fixed speed while you draft behind them. Test if different bikes take different amount of watts to do the same speed. I feel like I have only heard speculation about whether aero features matter at all when you're in a good draft. ie: is a totally non aero-optimized bike any worse when you're drafting?
This test can't yield correct results because draft will be variable all the time, two riders are not machines with robotic precision and results will be incorrect. But,..i can tell you that the wind that rider gets in draft - is slower, which means that aerodynamics matter less as well. So let's say they go 40kph the drafting may face only 27-30kph, which is very significant difference in air resistance, and thus lower demand from bike at all. So overall - all these ultra experience bikes do not give you speed benefits. It's just a business, nothing more
Paintjob (Scott), my ass.
English speaking customer service is exellent at Winspace.
Bought a wheelset from them, and also asked a lot of questions about bikes.
Answers right away, and with flawless grammar.
Agree. My experience has been very positive to date
I bought t1550 and lun wheels and they’re 🎉 excellent 😊
My experience with Winspace has been outstanding as well. They spoke perfect English in email, were courteous, and overcommunicated comparatively speaking. I bought their wheels and the product is outstanding.
@@furioustacosI had no problems with Winspace with replies or English barriers. IMO, good customer service. I didn’t buy a T1500, but a G2. The quality I saw inside the tubes were great. Been riding it for nearly 2 years without any complaints. Including the Lun wheels. Lots of miles and long journeys.
It’s not the service imo. It’s building the bike from scratch. I did all my work by myself.
I put 32mm tires on my Scott Foil with no issues
Just built my T1550 with mechanical ultegra, just under 4k and couldn’t be happier
Awesome content. Thanks for putting the time in for things like this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@NorCalCycling yeah, thanks Jeff.
Amazing content. I would be very interested in learning more about aero sock gains in a future video
I broke my Foil handlebars at nationals last year. I ordered a new pair in August which were said to be on backorder until December. A few months later they said April, in April they told me August. I’ve been towards the front of their waitlist for a while so I think the Syncros handlebar problem is worse than most people realize.
16,8 lbs = 7,62 kg. 17,4 lbs = 7,89 kg.
1:46 The weights say kg, but they should be lbs.
yeah 16.8 kg would be ridiculous. 7,6 kg is more like it
I very much hope so indeed :D
My immediate thought was holy FUCK. $11,000 for 16.8kg!?
17 kilos???..wow.. thats heavy as aelectric scooter
@@ryuujinusa also said 11,000pound bike 🤣
Compared to the Scott, Winspace does offer "crash protection"... just buy two Winspace bikes with one being a "crash backup" and you'll still come-out money ahead from the Scott!
Love this stuff and makes us poor people on a budget realize there's a lot of return put into training and not into fancy equipment. Thanks Jeff!
You need to test your suspicion. I think the design criteria for aero "gains" tends to be at the 40kph or higher range. We know aerodynamics changes at speed. Tooling around at 20-22mph won't be the same as race speeds, which I would argue at men's elite level would start around 25mph up to about 30mph depending on the course. It would be great to see the same test at "race speeds". I know that's tough as far as pushing those watts solo for 15 minutes at a time, but would still be great to see that kind of test for the guys who really spend time off the front or in the wind where aerodynamics matters a whole lot. If you are sitting in the peloton, it won't make much difference at all.
Totally, specially in a headwind the more speed the more resistance to accelerate
If their results are accurate, I'm about 99% sure that going a bit faster is not going to move the Scott ahead. The Winspace has a pretty good lead.
This sort of testing is inherently inaccurate/imprecise though due to variables like wind, position, path. Getting the position exactly the same and holding that position is really tough. I like it when they have two riders testing at the same time as this helps a little. More runs would help too, as this should demonstrate the level of consistency.
270w is pretty representative of what a domestique will hold on the front of the peloton all day before it gets spicy. I weigh 78kg and 270 gets me well over 40kph on a nice road so I think he chose a good power
@@marty197666 I weigh less and it takes me about 330 W to hold over 40kph. 270W means you are very aero.
@@carlosflanders518 hmmm I’d say I was average? Ollie from gcn hit well over 50kph on his TT bike at 320! On my TT bike my lowest power to go reasonably fast was 240 to do 41kph, but that was extremely uncomfortable for me and I had shoulder and stomach pain lol. Just to be clear 270 would get me above 40kph on my road bike easily.
Good video, Scott still use those ridiculously wide bars where on your Winspace they are nice and narrow. I have found narrow bars to make a massive difference.
If you need a longer stem on the Scott foil you have to pay what I paid for my entire bike. Nice proprietary Lock in.
Double check your tire width tests. Repeated testing has shown that what's most important is that the tire makes a smooth transition for the air to the rim. Wider tires are certainly not faster when narrower tires transition smoothly.
My totally stock 105-spec CAAD10 cost USD$360 pre-covid. I'd love to know how much slower my bike on that course would be with those fast wheels.
For vast majority of amateur riders who can't go solo at 40 km/h for considerable time - very marginal gains. Yet almost every bike seller highlits aero advantages (a frame, a cable-free cockpit, even pedals), kind of silly development.
Seems you do not understand the difference between airspeed and ground speed. Bike sitting in a wind tunnel has 0 ground speed and 30 mph air speed. Bike travelling at 20 mph ground speed into 10 mph headwind sees 30 mph airspeed and hence it benefits from aero.
@@ppawlows2000and everyone can be travelling at like 40mph at a good long downhill which makes a lot more difference between aero and non
90% of the drag come from the body, the frame gain is just a commercial thing.
I haven't heard English or tech/sales support to be difficult with Winspace, if anything, it's been really good. A better experience than what my friends had to deal with when their Scott mountain bikes had broken chainstays. They were both forced to buy aluminum rear triangles for their Scott Sparks and waited almost 8 months for the LBS to get their act together to warranty the carbon rear triangles from Scott. Just to be clear, though, none of my friends have had issues with their Winspace or Yeoleo bikes, just lots of back and forth communication to verify proper spec's.
I'd love to see a comparison between the 11k bike and a 10 year old steel frame bike with rim brakes and exposed cables but deep section wheels.
No difference
and exactly same tires.
@@nikolapenkov984Probably wouldn't fit though...
@@macvos its needs to be some steel touring frame, but still light. I have one exactly like that, Titan brand (Swiss/Italian made), light and stiff and can fit like 40mm
I believe you explained the entire narrative perfectly....all of it.
I didn't expect much difference between these two bikes and of course, there isn't much.
But for those less fit than you which is me and most, the compliancy of the Scott matters for fatigue, perhaps greatly due to reduced pedal forces and more road harshness telegraphed to the body for those that don't lay down the watts like you do Jeff which is most, you being an elite amateur racer.
Not much difference between these wheels as somewhat expected at lower speeds tested at sub 300 watts and related road speed.
The 'hype' and difference between aero performance which again you properly touched upon is amplifed at 'higher speed' which weaker riders like myself don't spend much time at, but you do in your crit racing.
All makes sense and thank you for your video....including wider tires being faster.
I'm sorry I like aero frames but I cannot go disc brakes for crit racing. Disc brakes are good for the casual rider who doesn't care about aerodynamics and does some big descents.
It's been proven that the discs are less aero than rim brakes and the stopping force can lead to crashes when braking too hard. Even pros have went over their bars from disc brake hard braking.
If I were to build an aero frame for crits, I would find an aero frame that supports rim brakes and have a lighter, more aero bike overall than a disc brake bike.
The only time I use my brakes is when I see a tight blonde baddie
You are right. I went back to rimbrake, it is much more subtle.
@@rolffuchs2737 also the first wheelset upgrade I got for crit racing had 50 mm rims for more aerodynamics but now I realize that lighter, shallower wheels accelerate faster out of the corners and deal with crosswinds better making shallow rims the best for crits imo.
@@rolffuchs2737 the more I race the more I realize that crits are all about drafting efficiently and cornering so aerodynamics don't really matter unless you're a breakaway rider or a guy riding in the front
Good news is that the Winspace T1550 comes in rim brake!
Cool vid, a couple things but first disclaimer: not advocating for one bike or the other, just pointing out a few potential biases with these types of tests. 1) mentioned in another comment, but doing multiple laps in each condition would help give a sense of how much lap to lap variability there is and maybe control for some of the environmental things like body position, wind etc. 2) show us normalized power too! Are you spending most of your time at low power while making big accelerations over bumps in your 5 mile loop? Are you pedaling on the downhills? I assume you are aiming for consistent power throughout but nP would show how consistent this is. 3) usually the performance gains from the super aero bikes come at the top end, when you’re pushing up against maximum wind resistance. It would be cool to see some top end comparisons as well. 4) would be great to see psi and all the other little variables that could effect performance - how tall are you in a neutral position on each bike? How wide are the bars? Maybe this is over the top but as long as we are geeking out about the aerodynamics….
Love these types of videos though, and i have to agree that its hard to argue buying the $11000 bike strictly for performance reasons for most riders!
Hey Jeff. If you were to buy the Winspace as a fully built bike with a top end groupset/wheelset from an incountry agent/reseller it would be a fair bit more than $4k. Not least the retailer markup.
Also with a Scott you get a 5 year warranty and can purchase a frame at half price if you break it.
I think that closes the gap between the two, not all the way of course, Swiss made products are always pricey.
Thanks for more great “real world” content. Another great push back against the need to spend a million to get faster in real life. It is so refreshing to actually see someone ride IRL than in the imaginary land that is the wind tunnel. Thanks
Wow I thought my gravel bike was heavy! 17 kg for a carbon bike, must have lead strapped to it.
damn 16.8 kg for 11 thousand dollars!
@@peterers3 My gravel bike is 30 lbs and I spent only $ 1200. I would never pay that much money for a bike that heavy. Crazy bananas!
im sure that's 17lbs, go 4k you'll see the weighing scale says 17LBS
@@peterers3Most of that has to do with the UCI rules of 6.8kgs weight limit.
@@rjf2832no siht sherlock
It's not perfectly easy to conclude since theres an overall negative correlation between run # and time (results may be biased by run order due to change in weather conditions or something else), but the winspace appears faster. This could have been fixed by doing just one more run with the scott + 50mm wheels since it appears the slowest, and so would either break the correlation if theres no run order bias or continue the negative correlation if there is. I have to think if you throw 32mm tires on the winspace, it would be even more so, which you cant do with the scott. Plus that might help the comfort issue. Sweet video.
my new canyon aeroad has a proprietary cockpit too. older version didn't, but...big pain in the ass, especially since the cockpit isn't sold for individual purchase
It would be likely the lower spec version of the Scott would have the same frame design with lower spec, heavier components, might be a good comparison
i think the question for the people not the crit racing or pub club cyclist is 11k going to save you the 10 secs from the best to worst (in this test) or can you make a case for doing 15-25 more watts say 2 a days for more leg conditioning or better core strength zone training for a cardio platform?
id like to see 2012-15 s works tarmac or cannondale supesix evo same era , rim brake obviously...in comparison to a modern bike....because in my own experience I still give the nod to what some would refer to as old school......so yeh...old school vs modern
My CAAD10 still hammers
I just want to add this comment to make sure that 99% of the comments are about the weight error. I found an error on the internet, I am a hero.
🎉🎉
I think Jeff found a new TH-cam hack to get his video more prosperous
Glad to see you now actually listened to your viewers and swapped the wheel so that we can know exactly what's responsible for what. I remember then i left a criticizing comment just about this wheel thing on your then Specialized bike review once. However now this one I have nothing to say, fair and clear! I think the result is really interesting, the Scott looks incredible and does indeed looks "very aero". But that Winspace is even more incredible. It looks very plain -- there are tons of similar bikes there, and I believe they didn't test it in a wind tunnel at all.
This makes me wondering, how does all those similar bikes compare??? It seems we have reached some plateau of aero bikes. You know what I mean, they all have similar feature and looks almost the same. If you can source some of these bikes, and just do some test exactly like this one, you'll make the cycling community more good than any of other TH-camrs.
Another thing is it will be even more interesting to see Winspace "knock-offs" in the future -- USD 4000 is still a lot of money. Chinese factories can easily cut that to half (I live in China, I just know, that's how they operate on the domestic market, oversee market is considered "profit gold mine"). If something comes at USD 2000 with something that is a little bit less stiff and maybe some cheaper groupset stuff, it will become very interesting.. For me all I care is that aero frame, that's what makes you faster, not that stupid shifters that costs a grand. I'll be more than happy even if it's still 10 speed because aerodynamically it will be the same!
My 10 SPD SRAM groupset is super light
An interesting bonus comparison would be comparing the bikes with their optimum tyre setup. If one can run wider tyres than the other and be much faster with wider tyres then surely that's the bike to go for if you're chasing performance? In the case of the Winspace this could also possibly nullify the comfort disadvantage.
Might be hard to test but I've always wanted to know the effect that cross-chaining vs efficient drive train alignment. IE little ring, little sprocket vs big ring little, sprocket or something similar
Next pair aero bikes: Giant Propel vs Van Rysel 😊
Love my T1550 👌🏻 incredible value
Me too. Absolutely flies and compares well to my old Giant Propel Advanced SL
clear win for winspace
On a sponsored video, what did you expect?
not a sponsored video
Could you please provide a review of the Polygon Helios AX9 bicycle? It is an all-carbon, all-rounder bike that is available at half the price of high-end brands. Thank you for your time and consideration.
It would be as fast as these bikes with the same wheels
Try and get a Elves Falath Evo 2023 with the wheelset TH50D, would like to here your opinion on that bike setup.
Got 1600 miles on mine, and im lovin it more every time i ride it.
Built it with a 105 DI2 and Assioma Duo pedals, comes in at 8,36kg with Gamin mount and bottlecages, for around 3200 bucks for the full build.
When it comes to the Scott, you will have better luck finding a Winspace sold at a US dealer (yes there are bike shops across the US that sell Winspace in the shop) than the Scott. Scott's high end bikes are like unobtanium and ordering one is quoted at 8+months. I always amazed when I see someone post one, because I and others I've know went hunting and couldn't even find a whiff of carbon when looking for their top spec road and gravel frames.
Honestly, stiffness (in favor of the Winspace) was probably the determining factor here. More of that power in the pedals is making it to the wheel/road.
Would be interesting to see the side by side comparison bombing a straight downhill so you can get that 'at speed' comparison!
Winspace just came out with the Agile so very curious to compare the T1550 to the Agile
Are you going to get the Winspace Agile? It is supposed to be more compliant.
THANK YOU. I have been waiting for a video like this. I see some people spending $8k+ on a bike just to be on a group ride and always wondered if is worth it. Staying with 50mm wheels just for the climbing.
Great video. 👍 I've seen a recent video of a scott dealer in the US who was very disappointed with Scott's after sales service and supply chain . Just because they are close doesn't necessarily mean great service
To me, ride quality is what matters the most. If we started comparing bikes only with how fast they are, we shall end up with no results for the general consumer who barely rides at 30 kmph average for a 50 km course. I get the same speed on my Trek Madone and my friends' orbea orca and Propel but the ride quality on my Madone feels so much better. In terms of speed, any bike after 5K USD will give you the same speed. Imo 5K usd is the sweet spot for input output value right now.
One part about the English speaking people at Winspace, well I have never had a problem as customer service is wonderful. The Winspace is stiff yet I like the snappiness of the rear when putting power down. The speed bump or lack of quality falls squarely in the Scott frame. The frames are far from good. Yes, they can make pretty paint jobs but look inside or look at one after a crash to see the lack of quality is cringe worthy. Most racers only keep a bike for 1-2 years which is fine. Let the second owner deal with the frame cracking. I no longer race as gray hair and passing 50. My view is I want a bike I can do 45-55 miles at a time(2-3x a week) and hold onto for 5-10 years.
4:57 is a sick edit🔥
Thanks!
Hey Jeff, if I remember right you used to wear an Evade 3, would love to see a comparison between the Kask and Evade and any other aero road helmets, I would expect you won't be able to see differences in speed but comments on comfort and ventilation for some various road helmets would be good. The POC Ventral, Specialized Propero 4 and Trek Ballista would be some other good comparisons if you can get your hands on them.
A test that would love to see is how much difference in speed there is between a high end road bike against a high end mountain bike. Obviously the road bike will be much faster, but seeing how big the difference is will be interesting. Especially if both tests can be done in an aero position.
And another one that I would love to see is a high end mountain bike against a high end gravel bike on a gravel road. But I guess that won't happen on a crit racing channel lol.
If you could ever get your hands on the Wheeltop EDS electronic shifting, I'd love to hear a review on that compared to a Shimano or SRAM group. I know it's not available in US, but maybe as a "review kit" it's possible. The fact that it's available in a rim brake version for older frames is appealing. thanks for the creative content!!
Would love to see you test the Simplon Pride or Ribble Ultra SLR. Keep up the good content 🙌🏻
1:44 LOL I know it was probably a typo but showing 16.8 KG instead of LBS is kinda funny
That was awesome.I run wind space wheels on my bike.I have an obey orca I run the D45 and the D67.All depends how windy it is outside.Because I live in las vegas
Maybe my comment is taboo...but I have been curious about the LOOK 795 Blade RS and how it compares to the SL8??
These videos need to compare for example a 100km ride. How do you feel after as well as the time/watts etc
I don’t care about the price difference, that Scott is by far the best looking bike in the peloton. I’m sure you can get it cheaper if you shop around too.
I’d love to see what you think of the Scott’s ride quality with the “solid” seatpost fitted.
Is the durability of the carbon another factor in the price difference? I have a carbon REI Co-Op road bike and the frame is made in china. I’ve had it for about 3 years and some of the carbon has chipped away on the rear triangle. Still safe to ride but more of a cosmetic issue
Most of these well known brands who are pushing these fast aero bikes are branded for the pro's. Take into consideration that most pro races average 170km+ with the monuments coming at close to 300km, with speeds averaging 45km/h+..
Most cyclists would average 30-35km/h on their 100-120km ride with moderate elevation. The gains for the "fastest aero bike" would be noticed at way higher speeds..
And for the paint job, well you can buy the winspace and take it for custom painting and still end up cheaper than the scott.
What does all this mean? nothing really.. if you like the scott for any reason and can afford it then buy it i guess..
SWorks venge, SL8, swapped out cockpits.
I have a Winspace with SRAM RED AXS and I love it.
6:50 Scott tested the rim brake version that's why it was faster LOL
Wait, I think we're failing to consider time gained over time though, right? Ostensibly, wouldn't the 10s gain on the Winspace 67mm vs the Scott 50mm add up really quick in a crit setting? That's basically a minute gap in six laps of this loop, yeah?
I have the G2 gravel frame from Winspace and I have both road and offroad wheelsets and I can confirm that it's indeed really stiff, not only the T1550. :D
Struggling to hold a 17 pound bike up to weight it! Road cyclist spaghetti arms for the win :)
Love your stuff Jeff but a little upset with your claims of better English support from Scott unless you have experience/evidence that can back you up on this. Otherwise I fear that you might be just jumping to conclusions with unintentional prejudice. I myself have 2 wheelsets from Winspace and their customer support has been first class. Meanwhile I have had worse examples of support from the likes of Trek - so a lot of the time it's not exactly as one would expect...
I bought a lower end generic frame, it’s a Tarmac SL6 copy. Stiffest bike I’ve ever ridden! Almost unbearable after a couple hours, but I am 54. My guess some generic frame they put carbon fiber in a mold without regards to ride quality. Basically just building a bike.🤷🏻♂️
Which Chinese frame? My alu Cannondale CAAD10 is surprisingly comfortable and it is fully slammed (I'm a youthful 50 😂)
@@richardggeorge it’s a Velobuild R-086. It’s a fast bike and would be a great race bike. If I raced. You mash the pedals it goes. I have an aluminum Jamis Icon. It rides great
I have to admit that I'm from the Stone Age (or is it the stoner age), but the idea of a one piece $600 bar/stem, seems insane. For me, it was always Bar plus stem.
I also can't get my head around 32mm race tires. I never even used 25mm Tubs for race tires. Just 22mm. Time marches on.
From my experience the Winspace ride quality is brutal, I now regret not spending an extra $1000 on a more established bike company
Which model do you have and what were you coming from?
weight in pounds not kg btw
Your also testing it TT style, but it's not a TT bike. I want to see real world tests. Compare it in a bunch or pace line. I think people forget abbot that. How much difference does aero make in the bunch? How long are you actually in the wind?
i'd like to run that test but it's not feasible to carry out that test while controlling for the variables, like how much draft am I getting? if either of us change our position by just millimeters it affects the amount of draft. in the end, wind resistance (drag) is the primary opposing force even when drafting, so these test translate to bunch riding
@@NorCalCycling was by no means a dig at you, love the content! I understand it would be extremely challenging getting those test results.
Im gonna be real here. For anyone getting into racing. Buy the new trek emonda alr and upgrade the wheelset on it and bars etc to your bikefit. Its probably the cheapest and best bike on the market right now for the value you get
Nice, I would love to see efficiency comparative tests over different incline grades, personal experience: a 80% incline sends any road group-set gear ratio to the bin, but i always wondered about the efficiency when a jogger can keep a cyclist pace no problem in a hard uphill
I would love to see an ELVES Falath EVO vs the Foil vid.
Amazing video ! I think it will be intresting to test the new tarmac sl8 against a real aero bike like the scott foil and to see what would be the best option: a real aero bike or a allround comfort bike.
The Scott engineers all gave a collective groan watching this. Pretty much any road frame with aero wheels is gonna come in within 5-10s over a 14min course at 20-22mph. These are race bikes! If you want to really compare em, you've gotta go race speeds. We all know you're capable of doing 4x15 at 350w (or more). Let's see what happens when you're going 30mph next time.
totally agree, this might be worth a retest at higher speeds/powers
@@NorCalCyclingagreed
I'll tell you even better. On my usual 65 km / 1100 m elevation route the difference between avg speed is in the range of margin for error between my Canyon Grizl with 45 mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel tires and my Tarmac SL8 with Roval Rapide CLX wheels and 28 mm Specialized Turbo tires.
I've got a (true one hour) FTP of 270'ish watts, so for an average Joe like me who isn't racing crits, and given the low rolling resistance of modern gravel / allroad tires, even the question of race vs gravel starts to become moot, let alone expensive vs "cheap" road.
Does the weight of the wheels matter? What were they? This makes me want to put back on my deep wheels lol.,
A suggestion is to compare a top aluminum bike verse a carbon bike for crit racing. Like comparing specialized allez sprint verse S-works for crit racing.
Foil can accomodate 32mm tyres quite well, have tried it.
Hey Jeff, how does the winspace compare to the TCR a few seasons ago?
I remember seeing somewhere the Simplon was the fastest tested bike in the world...
In Mexico crash replacement is paying a discounted frame, not sure in usa is full replacement
Then test a 1000USD near new tarmac sram red s-works etc and be even more surprised. ;)
from all China brand i have. i call Winspace is the best bike. i use Cervelo soloist, i also ride pardus Robin evo, then the last i use LItespeed TI bike, but for now Winspace Agile is my favorite.
for people out there who now become old rider. i very recommend this bike from Winspace Agile it very good for old man back.
this bike are a combination between shock absorber and verygood climb bike the acceleration is like never i taste before. Pardus Robin evo is also climbing bike but compare with Win Agile Robin road damping quality is not as good as Win Agile in some situation Pardus is very rough, for long ride i test Win agile for 280Kilo ride this bike is a beast it far more comfort than my robin.
for city ride pack with traffic you will feel the benefit using Win Agile, it fast it comfort, with new force it very light bike.
i never use T1550. but seen my agile this brand will be the next High end killer. it very good bike.
The previous version had the 1” steerer and came new with a 1 piece bar and shim…
Very true for most riders you don't need 10-15k bike, maybe why I see them for sale especially if they are married!!! Awesome testing in the real world 👌
was the fit exactly the same? Only a small difference can make up for the slim margins between aero bikes
someone that understands....looks like windspace is a bit of a lower bike when compared to the foil. windspace stack is 561mm vs foil 568 that alone could mean rider is sitting higher and at same watts less aero advantage hence less speed.
@@toshman696969no spacers On scott and 2-3 On winspace
same fit on both bikes
If the idea is that the Scott shows its value at higher speeds, then I think you need to repeat the tests at higher speeds - maybe a shorter loop at 350 watts? Or, to really control variables, find a velodrome?
Maybe do a test on a straightish downhill , no brakes, that might give insight into airo effect at higher speeds?
good idea
I legitimately looked for an April 1st upload date after those weights. :D
How is it possible to swap wheels between SRAM and Shimano? Isn´t there a different free hub system?
Please test Pinarello Dogma X vs some of the other high end endurance bikes. Like the new Giant Defy with SRAM red axs, or canyon , BMC, etc.etc.. Please do it before I pull the trigger on an endurance bike! Help ..