RON THORN nice to listen to you as an expert. I am surprised because in the last summary you didn’t mention (as in your top of mind) about woods (one piece, Quality of the good....) is it not one of the key differential strengths (of customs guitars), due to is the issue more related to tone? More important reason over customizing or aesthetics for most of the users
These are great. Thanks to Tone King for having you on, really hope you do your own TH-cam channel if you get the shot. I'll definitely take you up on the nickel tour.
Ron you're an awesome guy. I love hearing what you look for in a guitar, and the detail you put into the guitars you make. Hopefully someday I can have your shop build a custom strat for me.
I love this guy - he's very honest, passionate, he doesn't come off like a lot of people where it's like you're wasting their time, he seems like he'd love to sit there and talk about this stuff all day - he's not jaded by it being his job.
It is fantastic to see Ron being honest and critical of each fender he inspected. No bias, which is a rare thing especially when representing a big brand!
What he is saying is that they all have good fret work. His profession is perfection, and that is what you pay for at his level. The guitar you do not need more work to be done to. Ya get IT? It's the difference between taking the time to break in a new guitar which should always be expected, and just buying it at the perfect level of broken in. People act like these guitars don't cost labor hours to get them to their different price points for the different models and country makes, but they absolutely do cost a lot in human hours that must be made up for as well. Its why made in America is so expensive vs China, Korea, Japan, Mexico. The labor is more expensive, but so is the final result in fit and finish as well, because they can't just make em all to a perfect or nearly perfect state for varying money. That would mean we'd all buy made in China or Korea, and would kill the company bottom line. Its business, and it's also leaving something to be desired still in possibility for upgrade.
@@caiusmadison2996 that's silly. YOu are saying a customer can't expenct perfect frets for $700 to $1200????? Every fret should be perfect at that price point.
People latching on fit and finish as well as fret work like it's the only thing they do over there. They are a *custom shop* in USA. Expect it to be pricey. But furthermore your getting exceptional choices of wood, expert attention to detail, electronics of the highest quality, and ultimately that you're paying for is someone to make (in their opinion,) a perfect instrument. That's what you're paying for.
A custom shop guitar should feel and sound like whatever they are trying to emulate...a 700 dollar guitar should be good enough to gig and even pass down or trade or even re sale if you want.fit and finish should always be par for the course
@@Stardust0000 one thing you're failing to understand is the variances in is the price and origin of each series. With those each has it's own allowance for fit and finish. A $499 modern telecaster shouldn't have the same attention to detail and payability as a custom shop 52 blackguard. But it'll play correctly within a certain quality control.
OMG, what a difficult position to be in. He did well negotiating the obstacle course of justifying his existence and not making a case for why Fenders need tweaking. Glad it wasn't me.
It's the highlight of my day any time I can hear Ron Thorn's perspective and insight as to what to look for and how to assess guitars. Every time I see him give a guitar a once-over, I learn something new. Thank you Ron and TTK for sharing your knowledge!!
This is the video I think every guitarist has been waiting for on TH-cam. This is exactly what I have been wanting to know for years. This was very well done and I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video happen!
Here my problem with this.. If i spend 1499 to 1760 for a new fender strat (the price range I've seen in my local stores) the nut should be cut correctly and the fret ends dressed. GEEEZ!
And they are, just not to a level of a custom shop guitars standard. The difference in price is time spent on these details and some specs prices. Machine built pickup-sets are often half the price of a hand-built set - and sometimes even less. Are custom shops better than standard builds? The anser is yes AND no, depending on what You are looking for. A guitar is not better just because the edges on the headstock is blenden, but it sure as hell feels a lot more comfy to play….and by time You get there anyway. It's just an issue of paying someone upfront doung it with a tool/sandpaper or You doing it yourself with a tool or your hand. Find yourself a good looking/playing standard guitar, make sure You get a set-up included in the price and half the battle is already won.
The issue isn’t really a poorly cut nut. Any Fender in the price range you quote is going to feel very playable. The difference with a custom shop guitar is the extreme attention to detail. The cost involved in improving a guitar from good to perfect is quite significant. Every additional hour spent perfecting fit, finish, feel and setup adds probably $100 to the sticker price at the dealer. So an extra day and a half making it perfect probably doubles the price.
Manufacturers will always leave a little meat on the nut because not everyone likes uber low action. You can always take more away, but its a bitch to add more.
Yeah, the hourly wage and or salary of the builder is also factored in. People forget that a machine can chug out a nearly perfect guitar, and that's exactly what a new USA feels like. Nearly perfect. However, the custom builder has to use many hours in labor to fine tune every aspect of the fit and the finish to your exact standards, maybe even better than you thought it needed to be as that's their profession. So many people forget that when you ask for perfection, it will take time, and costs money because it takes such a level of detail and time.
This gentleman didn't ramble at all - I could listen to him for hours on end talk about "flats on", "quarters on", and "riffs on". He provides such incredible insight that you wouldn't normally know. He also seems like such a sweet, genuine guy!! Man, I wish I could apprentice with him. Thank you so much for sharing this video ❤
First of all I’m a huge fan of Ron, he is a true artisan and a super nice guy! The amount of talent he is having brought FCS a level that raises the bar much higher. I love how FCS working, they love and believe in what they are crafting and the amount of talent and looking at their customers at the same eye level is inspiring!!!
@@sylvainswift3234 I'm in the same boat, I just happened to buy a Cortez jazz bass copy, looks like a Geddy Lee signature, would have liked to hear what his impression of his was
Back in the early eighties I bought a brand new Cortez Gibson custom Les Paul copy, it looked great but had a lot of problems ,playability wise , I'm sure I could have took it to a good luthier and got it up to shape
I have a Mexican made Strat in sunburst that is a two peice body, must have been lucky :) These Fender guys have to walk a pretty fine line. They can't say anything is wrong with the factory stuff but still need to find a way to upsell the custom shop. It's a true skill, I would probably slip up somewhere lol! Great video TTK!
There’s usually nothing wrong with the stock items. If the frets are really bad, I had the neck replaced from an authorized repairman in contact with Fender.
....poor Jimi Hendrix,he must have been really limited by those second-rate off the shelf CBS guitars he was forced to use when there was no custom shop....
I like that he finds actual things to say, and notes that they are small details, rather than getting all prideful and boasting. He calmly explains how better builders, who are given more time, can get better results, while not trashing the lower quality grade. What a pro. What a great representative of the company AND the player.
I would love to hear everything this man has to say. I'm die hard fender, but my 2020 MIM player strat is wayyyy better than my older American standard. The new HSS player with maple neck is flawless. Splitting the coil in the 2nd position is better for me than a push pull pot, definitely my guitar for life
The “attention to detail” stuff is only 20 minutes of extra work, and the materials are $100-$200 extra if you’re getting figured wood. Nitrocellulose isn’t expensive, and they may not use anymore anyway. You’re really paying $1,000+ for the name on the headstock, the “Corona, CA” on the neck plate, and, most importantly: the comfort in knowing your guitar is being put together by a true American craftsman that cares enough to build it like you would if you had the tools/time, and not a handful of worn out line workers that are just punching the clock and waiting for 5:00 PM to come. Not saying there is anything wrong with paying that premium if you have the money and want a great Fender guitar, but so many more folks would build or do their own setups on cheaper guitars if they understood the reality. I do have to say, huge props to Fender for being so honest and open about this stuff. Probably because the nit picky issues they’re discussing are things that 95% of guitarists would never notice over the life of the guitar, but still. Meanwhile, Gibson continues to ignore serious QC issues with their top of the line guitars and brags about how innovative it is to re-re-re-release 60 year old designs, and chooses instead to focus on shaming players for not wanting to play their overpriced and under-crafted guitars and threatening boutique builders with legal action for actually pay attention to the instruments coming out of their shops. If Gibson would just STFU for five minutes and hire people that would just build a solid guitar, like Fender has done, they would put most of the competition out of business in no time.
@Tactical Jackson That’s just it... some people are great at playing guitar, but have no idea how to work on a guitar (I know a couple players like that).🙂 If you’re fortunate enough to have the funds, why not get something customized to your playing style? Honestly, you can find a Spectacular guitar from the production line, but it seems you’ll always get a Spectacular guitar from the Custom Shop (at a price of course). 😉
Comment Highlighted #1 direct quote from my comment above: “Not saying there is anything wrong with paying that premium if you have the money and want a great Fender guitar, but so many more folks would build or do their own setups on cheaper guitars if they understood the reality.” #2 Direct quote from comment above: “...most importantly: the comfort in knowing your guitar is being put together by a true American craftsman that cares enough to build it like you would if you had the tools/time,...” We are completely in the same page, bud. If you have the money and building your own does not sound at all appealing: 100% buy the FCS guitar of your dreams. They are amazing American craftsman that deserve to be paid whatever the market will give them. However, there is a lot of mystique covered in nitrocellulose flavored snake-oil that discourages many from building the guitar they want (Or even knowing what guitar would truly serve them best). I gave props to fender in my comment, because they’re one of the first companies I have ever heard come out and wipe a little of that snake-oil away, and show you what you’re truly paying for. Very honest and respectable move that should push anybody to feel a little more comfortable when purchasing from Fender at any level, IMO. However, building is fun, not that expensive to get into, and so freaking rewarding. I’m even getting my kids in on the finishing work now, which is awesome for all involved. Long story turned into a novel that is now being summed up: if building sounds cool to you: do it. If not: just do the research so you know what you’re paying for. ✌🏻
@@tacticaljackson Definitely, a pro setup makes a huge difference but I haven't seen the features that I prefer in the regular lineup (believe me - I wish they did, although my old Highway One's are fairly close). I can get the neck shape & fret wire that I like in a Custom Shop guitar. And while Gibson has made some mistakes, I have two Les Pauls & a 335 that are amazing. You need to run the racks just like with any other brand.
Finally, the most interesting part is just at the end, below the sponsor logos ... what is different in a custom shop guitar: attention to details, woods and personalization
No doubt he knows what he's talking about. Thinking he could probably make any Fender the way you want it. Hence ... Custom Shop. I'm not there yet ... might need one one day!
Thats why i buy from kiesel you can get an afordable custom usa guitar built to your exact specs for a fraction of the price. And they will do stuff that the fender and gibson custom shop never could
Love how the first guitar they pick is an American Elite, which retails for roughly $2000, and he IMMEDIATELY finds "flaws". Proper fret work, fit and finish should NOT be exclusive to custom shop guitars, ffs.
I agree, but they need a a few reasons for lawyers and people with money to burn to spend $5K on a strat, lol. If there's one thing I've learned in 25 years of playing the guitar, it's that tone is in the hands. FFS, Eddie Van Halen made his own strat out of spare electronics and pickups and a b-stock charvel body and neck and he's considered one of the greatest players and people have been chasing his tone since the first VH album came out 40 years ago!
True, true. Personally, I have had a hard time fidning any issues with any of the higher-end "production" Strats I've tried (Am. Elite, AVRI etc), and the same can be said for my Am. Standard Strat and my high-end "production" Gibsons. Maybe this guy has a special sense being a masterbuilder, or maybe it's all snake oil. LOL, yeah and don't forget about Brian May, who built his guitar from scraps of wood, bicycle parts, and electronics from household items! And he plays that guitar to this day!
Ah, here's another one of those people who can't seem to understand simple things. He never said it wasn't proper, it's just not PERFECT. His level of fit and finish is way beyond that of normal players. You might not spot those "flaws" as fast as him because unlike him you're not a master builder that craft these guitars as your job. Jesus..
@@TheEchelon Yeah, the neck definitely shouldn't move. Ron Thorn probably definitely knows what he is doing, but just about anyone who has ever done the setup on their own guitar and maybe read a couple articles could spot something like nut not being cut deep enough. Checking the string clearance at the nut and assessing whether it is too high or too low (often an issue on guitars with locking nuts-you generally have to shim a little bit) is really basic stuff.
Cool to hear a master builder's take on the different models... Fender really has come a long way in their more "budget" oriented line of guitars... the quality is much higher these days... I think it's safe to say the a "Custom Shop" ordered guitar is pretty much like having your very own "signature" model made for you... to your desired specs... with the woods and custom color options for finish, etc... available... and of course, the fit and finish is going to be superb... as it should because it's what you're paying for... great video, thanks! :)
From Leo: We are in the age of the best production guitars ever. Even the better Squiers are very good. As the man said, the extra money for the custom shop is a prettier piece of wood and a little more time with the sand paper, and a lot of it you can do at home. This is a lucky time for guitarists.
What is funny is that I found the nicest patterned maple neck on a used $50 guitar. I guess that manufacturer didn't grade their prettier wood to more expensive guitars.
If you are ordering a plain jane strat from the custom shop you are just asking to get pinched. Custom shop, as he said...is for more "exotic materials" and personalization; "fit and finish" Calling it snake oil when he clearly defined what the custom shop is about sounds more like you are bitter you have to settle for Squier or run of the mill strats...which is perfectly fine too! I wish I could afford to pimp a strat from the custom shop...I too had to settle on just playing a normal fender.
My fave Strat model is the American Deluxe HSS Strats which are more "customized" than anything the CS makes, in my opinion. These might be "normal Fenders," but I happily own four of them.
This is the way to shop for a guitar; take an expert with you to advise and tell the salesman to stay the f*$% away while you’re making your selections.
@@sinnertrain7405 Nice! I played Squier for years...when it came time to reach for the upper shelf...I ended up leaving with a PRS NF3...which was shocking even to me...since i spent most of my life on Fenders and was at the shop to finally get an American Strat.
My Squier Bronco bass that I recently shimmed the neck pocket by using a piece of a cardboard clothing tag feels a lot more playable than my 2007 MIM 70's Classic Stratocaster. I had to sand down the bass side of the neck because it was very sharp and sticking into my thumb which made it extremely uncomfortable to play. With all of that being said my MIM Strat is a little bit of a step up from my 1983 Japanese Squier Strat CBS copy. Edit: 8:05 Cortez was my first " Strat' as well 😂😂
It's been great seeing him in these videos to give us some inside thoughts on these things. I know it'd be tricky for him to be too harsh on the Squier guitars, but he was still honest and fair.
Stan Parsley The Player is a fantastic instrument. It plays great, it looks great, it’s a pretty substantial chunk of wood without being overly heavy. It’s just a beautiful guitar that sounds freaking amazing.
@@katherineberger6329 Got me a sunburst 60s strat in 2010 , love it to that day . No need for another Stratocaster so far . Change the pot metal trem block to cold rolled steel , no need to change the saddles , they ' re fine .
I love this guy so honest and down to earth I got my first fender squier a month ago and I love it ( contemporary active/ w floyd rose)and I have owned many guitars over the 35 years I have been playing and I plan on getting another Squier in the near future..
I own a 2003 custom shop Fender Stratocaster ‘56 NOS in fiesta red with a soft-V maple neck. I played most of the MIM and MIA guitars in the music store that day, and those custom shop ones stand out in sound and playability. Worth the investment.
I have a 90s Mexican Strat with a chunk of wood glued back in it before I got it. Mirror pick guard . Finish totally rubbed off the neck. Serious character. Payed 250 bucks. Had a great luthier do a fret job..... It's fantastic.Sounds fantastic. Love it.
Wow! Never seen anyone align strings with fretboard by just grabbing it and crowing it over in the neck pocket. Obviously this man knows what he's doing. I never knew you could just manhandle it like that.
Caius Madison The micro-tilt doesn’t do anything for string alignment, it’s simply for adjusting the neck angle for action. Alignment is done by loosening the neck screws a little and making adjustments by tweaking the neck left or right then tightening the screws down.
@@AndGuitar that's what he did. The three bolt was left to right the four bolt is angled back or forward like on modern necks. The guitar in the video has how many bolts?
I have a strat made by Todd Krause, and I can see the attention to detail that he paid, particularly in the wood. Mine has a 5A flame maple neck, which is very precisely quarter sawn. The maple of course has tree rings, one ring in the wood in my neck is a little wider than the others, but the neck was cut so that this particular ring is on the same location on both sides, and down the middle of the edges of the head stock. Amazing. Then the body is two-piece ash, book matched, and though the guitar is finished in solid lacquer paint, the pattern of the wood is still visible. The work on the contours of the neck and body are perfect, the frets are also perfect. It's an amazing guitar, and though I cringed when I paid for it, I now think it is worth the money. A word of advice to those thinking of ordering such a guitar, avoid the heavily figured maple necks, unless you are very hand with a truss rod wrench. Seldom does a month go by when I don't have to tweak the truss rod one way or the other to keep the neck where I want it.
Hi Tone King. Your interviews are great! Excellent questions and you don’t talk over your guests like some people tend to do. You also chose interesting topics as well. Thank you!
Tburkulowsys I saw in another video he really liked 2 cheap guitars. I definitely would have bought one or maybe both. You have the TH-cam video to show people if you want to sell it. Though if they played as well as he said I would keep them. He looked really impressed.
The only time I've ever seen that before ... was another FCS builder! It does make a noticeable difference to have the string alignment spot-on (not too close to the edges)
Yeah, just shows you how "precise" these guitars really are... In a proper made neck socket you wouldn't be able to fit a piece of paper between the neck and the body. I've seen many Fenders on the shelf (USA Made even) with shifted necks and huge gaps. This was maybe OK 50 years ago, but let's not "replicate" that part today :/ Right now that's just poor quality.
It passes the BS test with flying ...um...I did not think this through. Really enjoyed this chat you guys had. I love nerding out with other guitar nerds. Bliss.
The custom shop division is indeed the highest caste in the Fender class. a touch of polish the end result is simply extraordinary. compared to the regular series
but those master built guitars honestly do sound better than standard series. Ive tested them, far more ring to them and sustain, fretboard feels amazing, plays like butter
By a strat alder body in your favourite colour , buy a neck that you like the feel of , buy pickups you like the sound of , by hardware that's the best for your budget , hey presto your own Custom Strat for a tenth of the price 👍
He SAID that he chose the orange Squire but if you watch the video he actually selected the Purple model as his final choice partly because of the purple head stock. Regardless it was nice to see a master builder making comments about what to look for when selecting guitars.
Ron is "The Only" Luthier on TH-cam to ever state the proper method of "Checking Slot Depth" of the nut. (Depress at 3rd, check at 1st with feeler gauge)
*TTK:* Why'd you pick the orange one? *Custom Shop Master Builder:* I like the color. In all seriousness, this guy has a lot of integrity for being honest and not trying to shoot down the production line guitars. And he obviously knows his stuff.
@@leightyrrell5449 It was just a joke! And you're right, he did do a separate video about which Squier he'd choose, with Brian McKnight. But guess what....he didn't choose the orange one like he said in this video lol. He actually chose the purple, even though he liked the orange one a lot.
Philip McKnight did a great video of Ron Thorn playing and checking out some Squier strats. He was very impressed with the quality of the Squier stuff at the given price point. Thorn is a master.
Ron mentioned Cort (Cortez guitars) at the end of the video. The funny thing is today Cort makes some of the nicest most playable and perfect guitars at their factory in Indonesia for a fraction of the price of a USA Fender. The fretwork on those guitars are really top notch. Definitely a sleeper brand.
pablo9364 I have a one piece ash tele, with clear finish. I’m lucky to have it, as I have seen a lot of two piece units just like it, made in USA. The solid painted ones, who knows?
Han reality. Your right if it’s made to a high standard and the glueing has been done correctly. But when your paying over £1000 it would be nice to have 1 piece can’t cost fender that much extra can it? Although it’s good for the environment / trees etc
I love Ron’s guitars and would like to play one of what he’s now doing with Fender. His skill and attention to detail is second to none. Fender is fortunate to have him.
I would wager my guitar on the fact that had you have picked up that fender...any of those issues he pointed out would have passed right on by your untrained eye. A master Luthier points out minor imperfections in a production line guitar that you would not find on a custom guitar.... OMG FRET ISSUES.....FRET ISSUES!!!!1111oneoneone...
A friend of mine in high school had a black Cortez Les Paul. It was the best playing guitar that I had ever played and have not forgotten after 25 + years! I didnt realize they where $400. back then.
He also said the profile of the back of the headstock, adjusted the neck to spread bass side strings and treble side strings evenly, then finished by saying it's mostly people ask for a more exotic wood on their custom instrument. Listen to everything he said not just what you're waiting to hear.
@@caiusmadison2996 how do you know what others are waiting to hear? Btw...wood is from trees, not gold mined out of the ground. It's not all that expensive!
@@74dartman13 No offense....but that was an ignorant comment. There are different grades of wood. Browse the net and search for a blank of curly maple. Hell, even some quilted maple. It is not cheap. Most of those grain profiles come from old trees with burl. Look at the PRS private stock tops. That is where the money goes.....and you want craftsmen that isn't going to fuck it up once you get your hands on it. You have to pay those people for their skilled labor. The materials and labor is LITERALLY the difference. Try building one and let me know if you change your mind.
@@caiusmadison2996 always buy instruments hands-on, try them out, take your time, and decide. Don't order over the internet, and most of the time you will have no problems what so ever. The sharp profile on the back of the head stock, might be an issue to you and many others, but it might not be an issue for equally as many, as with the frets. This are all minor things that should cost 50 USD to get fixed in a shop. As for the wood, yes wood types range from cheap to expensive, but the whole guitar is 3.6kg maybe 3kg of wood, regardless of what kind of wood it is, it's not $1000 for 3kg of wood. Secondly custom guitars, if it isn't custom - as in completely different body design/shape there isn't much custom to it, except your specified wood is thrown in the automated router which does not care what type of wood it carves, so instead of routing 1000 maple bodies in that day, the machine makes 999 Maple bodies and 1 Rosewood. Electric guitars/basses are in general overpriced by a lot, there is not a 50x quality difference between a Gibson or a Harley Benton, there's even less difference tonally. I can see a bigger price sticker for the Brand and sure quality checks, but that bigger sticker price should be within reason, $2500 guitars and up are not reasonable, there is literally nothing in or on them that is worth even remotely that much. And in case of Gibson, their guitars for the past couple of years have been worse than their knock-off brand Epiphone, and many other smaller brands around the world, even some Gibson counterfeits have been way better, yet Gibson kept increasing the prices? For what?
My classic vibe squire destroys any custom shop, American, and Mexican strat I have played. I had a budget of almost $2000 when I bought it and nothing in several stores felt or sounded near what that little $399 squire. Squires are killing it. I’m proud of mine.
I'am horrified how many people do not understand the concept of a custom shop and call it a scam. A custom shop builds an individual guitar after customer request. This is expensive because it does not fit in the production lines and has to be done individually. It is more expensive and customers expect better quality. So it is done by highly skilled workers, who are more expensive per hour, with more detail polishing and a better wood selection. So if you can buy a guitar like you want it from the mass production, there is no point in going to the custom shop. Only if you exactly know what you want and it isn't available in mass production, for example a strat with 59' body, unicorn-rainbow-finish, a 62' neck and special pickups, the custom shop got you covert.
Agreed. People who call the Custom Shop a scam should maybe try building their own guitar! I feel the prices CS are fair enough. Of course everyone wishes a Custom Shop instrument was more affordable and we could all own one, it's just that life doesn't work that way. If you want a CS Fender or Gibson there is only their custom services for which you can hire.
If your not into the details, custom shop guitars are not for you. Aside from the exotic woods, customization, parts.. etc.. it's the extra man hours going to well paid master builders that drive the cost up more than anything else.
Seriously. Why are you trying to explain that! I have been a guitar tech for over 20 years. I have worked as a salesman and teacher for over 10 years. I have almost had to FIGHT guys to explain the differences of quality instruments. Just look at some of the comments. Take a piece of wood, slap on some good pickups and you got a guitar just as good as a custom shop. He just EXPLAINED the differences. Did not pay attention to the 2 piece or 1 piece body. Did not pay attention to the Brazilian rosewood comment. Not to mention the hand wound pickups. Geez!
@@kckennedy55 You are 100% correct. I think we enter into such conversations in an attempt to help others understand, to help educate what we ourselves have seen and know. Sadly, you can't fix stupid and we get drawn in while only trying to help. You're right, first clue would/should have been they didn't understand the video.................
I'd leave the facet at the top of the neck. It looks better and more precise. Sanding everything off is pretty ugly. The real value of the custom shop (if there is any) isn't monetary, it's in choice. A good player will be able to play any of the guitars, and rolling the fretboard and customizing fretwork is inexpensive. All of the mex and USA guitars are either very good to start, or can be made very good with very little work, but a customer looking to drop $4000 isn't going to be satisfied because someone else can have the exact same thing and they don't get the song and dance of the custom purchase. And there's nothing wrong with selling that song and dance - people want things, you give them what they want.
“It’s really the finishes isn’t it”....um no. You pick literally everything you want from the custom shop, literally everything from wood type, tuning pegs, bridge, electronics, pickups, neck, color, finish....then a master guitar builder makes it for you. So I’d say that’s a significant difference from buying a guitar off a wall in a music shop.
Great video. What I took from this was that 'what you're missing out on by not having a custom shop guitar' is things that should have been done but you can do them yourself anyway.
Ron Thorn is very honest in this video. The beauty of Fender is you can buy a lower level guitar, and slowly rebuild it to a "Custom Shop" level. I bought a MIM Road Worn Strat for $700.00. After a $250.00 setup (fret level included), and Lollar Vintage Pickups, and CTS pots, and paper in oil capacitors, I had a very nice Strat!! You could just buy a nicely setup Strat and pay the extra $ upfront!
ContraBand Joe Well it’s diminishing returns. Do you want a flamed neck with super rolled and polished frets, and exotic woods? I don’t think an hour of work for $25/hour would negate the difference.
@@AlmostGrewMyHair Yeah Diminishing returns... What does a flamed neck and polished frets do for my musicianship and sound? What is the advantage of having exotic woods on a fender guitar when 99% of them are finished with a solid color? When I'm standing on a stage or playing for friends/family, are any of them thinking or whispering to each other "wow, listen to that off the rack strat, you can certainly tell he doesn't have polished frets, a flamed neck and exotic woods"...... Custom shop is marketing hyperbole.......
Joey DiVario Matteo Not true. Remember the cost of a Custom Shop compare to American Elite. You can buy 2-3 Elites for 1 Custom Shop, so I would say the Elite is actually a bargain.
@@comment.highlighted I'm not comparing the elite to a custom shop , I'm more comparing a elite to a professional series , a players series a . I own all 3 guitars yet the fit and finish of the the elite is worse than the pro series and no much better than the players series yet cost more . It's always hit and miss with Fender guitars but then again it could be because I'm in Australia and we basically get B grade stock .
@@josephmittiga2373 I'm in Australia. My local shop has a Custom Shop SRV Strat Lenny replica on sale at the moment for $23k - I'd hardly call that B-Stock.
Ron seem a nice honest guy, I’ve loved the couple of videos that he’s done with you. I think that normal production Fender guitars are good value for money within their various price bands , even the expensive Custom Shop guitars are great value when compared with other boutique USA built Stratocaster style instruments. With a little work Mexican and Squier guitars can play really great, pickups etc can always be changed if not to the players liking. I’ve got an older Mexican 70s style Stratocaster and after a setup and a set of Custom Shop pickups it’s an amazing guitar.
I’ve seen this guy all week on a bunch of channels. I like him and I like the fact that he isn’t turning his nose up at lower end guitars. I realize who he works for, so there’s that. Still he seems very honest.
Pretty much but they do make this stuff by a few people instead of manufacturing methods. Let’s say a masterbuilt. Components and material is probably only like $400 or something because of mass orders and in house production of electronics and parts then you can plop in labor cost. A custom shop will take a month to make by a somewhat more prestigious occupation so... give a few thousand or something for labor if we’re being loose. So let’s say a cost to make the custom shop is 2.5k roughly, then add in more costs of previous investments, being a company and accounting other variables that was somehow increase the cost and you can probably expect like around 3k. Then add the regular manufacturer to dealer then to customer markup then it’s around 7-8k. Is it a superior product? Yes, but does the price reflect it? No, but it’s okay, because all major companies do major price fixes, so this is a standard practice.
Thank you for your time Louis, I appreciated our discussions. If you’re ever in SoCal please let me give you the nickel tour at Fender.
RON THORN nice to listen to you as an expert. I am surprised because in the last summary you didn’t mention (as in your top of mind) about woods (one piece, Quality of the good....)
is it not one of the key differential strengths (of customs guitars), due to is the issue more related to tone? More important reason over customizing or aesthetics for most of the users
These are great. Thanks to Tone King for having you on, really hope you do your own TH-cam channel if you get the shot. I'll definitely take you up on the nickel tour.
Ron you're an awesome guy. I love hearing what you look for in a guitar, and the detail you put into the guitars you make. Hopefully someday I can have your shop build a custom strat for me.
You are a wealth of knowledge buddy. Thanks for your truthful answers.
RON THORN. Thanks for your honest tips and knowledge. Keep up the good work. 👍
I love this guy - he's very honest, passionate, he doesn't come off like a lot of people where it's like you're wasting their time, he seems like he'd love to sit there and talk about this stuff all day - he's not jaded by it being his job.
agreed ... he really seems to enjoy doing what he does, which is a breath of fresh air.
Thank you, I wouldn’t want any other gig, I’m lucky.
It is fantastic to see Ron being honest and critical of each fender he inspected.
No bias, which is a rare thing especially when representing a big brand!
Cheers to Ron - finally some honesty in the guitar world!!! This is one of the many reasons I still play Fenders!!!
So true much respect
Ron thorn is a class act , all the way . Honest , integrity , a master craftsman. Fender is lucky to have him .
I can listen to him shop talk all day
That is priceless
Some people feel Fender was lucky to have John Cruz.. But he was accused of wrong think.... And not bowing to the Democrat mob
keithadams812 it's just a shout to my buddy Ron , nothing against mr. Cruz
@@keithadams812in your imagination
Decent fret work should never seperate a reg strat from a custom,ALL OF THEM SHOULD HAVE GOOD FRET WORK,JUST SAYING
What he is saying is that they all have good fret work. His profession is perfection, and that is what you pay for at his level. The guitar you do not need more work to be done to. Ya get IT? It's the difference between taking the time to break in a new guitar which should always be expected, and just buying it at the perfect level of broken in. People act like these guitars don't cost labor hours to get them to their different price points for the different models and country makes, but they absolutely do cost a lot in human hours that must be made up for as well. Its why made in America is so expensive vs China, Korea, Japan, Mexico. The labor is more expensive, but so is the final result in fit and finish as well, because they can't just make em all to a perfect or nearly perfect state for varying money. That would mean we'd all buy made in China or Korea, and would kill the company bottom line. Its business, and it's also leaving something to be desired still in possibility for upgrade.
@@caiusmadison2996 that's silly. YOu are saying a customer can't expenct perfect frets for $700 to $1200????? Every fret should be perfect at that price point.
People latching on fit and finish as well as fret work like it's the only thing they do over there.
They are a *custom shop* in USA. Expect it to be pricey. But furthermore your getting exceptional choices of wood, expert attention to detail, electronics of the highest quality, and ultimately that you're paying for is someone to make (in their opinion,) a perfect instrument. That's what you're paying for.
A custom shop guitar should feel and sound like whatever they are trying to emulate...a 700 dollar guitar should be good enough to gig and even pass down or trade or even re sale if you want.fit and finish should always be par for the course
@@Stardust0000 one thing you're failing to understand is the variances in is the price and origin of each series. With those each has it's own allowance for fit and finish. A $499 modern telecaster shouldn't have the same attention to detail and payability as a custom shop 52 blackguard. But it'll play correctly within a certain quality control.
OMG, what a difficult position to be in. He did well negotiating the obstacle course of justifying his existence and not making a case for why Fenders need tweaking. Glad it wasn't me.
@stirange I'm sorry that I didn't get an alert on your response. Thank you for complimenting me. We are on the same planet.
Yeah, awefull situation... to be honest, I wouldn't even try this obstacle course.
I know right! Dude grabs an American made off the wall, c’mon man!
I was thinking the same thing. I've seen battle hardened politicians crack up in less awkward situations. LMAO
Exactly what I was thinking
Dude we were trying to hear the story of the Cort guitar that he got as a kid.
Joseph M but what the squier lol
It's the highlight of my day any time I can hear Ron Thorn's perspective and insight as to what to look for and how to assess guitars. Every time I see him give a guitar a once-over, I learn something new. Thank you Ron and TTK for sharing your knowledge!!
Hahah I love how excited he was to talk about the Squire and the interviewer was all "cool story, bro...that's all the time we have for today"
This is the video I think every guitarist has been waiting for on TH-cam. This is exactly what I have been wanting to know for years. This was very well done and I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video happen!
Thanks so much blessed. Appreciate it!
You rock TK - thank you!
Here my problem with this.. If i spend 1499 to 1760 for a new fender strat (the price range I've seen in my local stores) the nut should be cut correctly and the fret ends dressed. GEEEZ!
And they are, just not to a level of a custom shop guitars standard. The difference in price is time spent on these details and some specs prices. Machine built pickup-sets are often half the price of a hand-built set - and sometimes even less.
Are custom shops better than standard builds? The anser is yes AND no, depending on what You are looking for. A guitar is not better just because the edges on the headstock is blenden, but it sure as hell feels a lot more comfy to play….and by time You get there anyway.
It's just an issue of paying someone upfront doung it with a tool/sandpaper or You doing it yourself with a tool or your hand.
Find yourself a good looking/playing standard guitar, make sure You get a set-up included in the price and half the battle is already won.
The issue isn’t really a poorly cut nut. Any Fender in the price range you quote is going to feel very playable. The difference with a custom shop guitar is the extreme attention to detail. The cost involved in improving a guitar from good to perfect is quite significant. Every additional hour spent perfecting fit, finish, feel and setup adds probably $100 to the sticker price at the dealer. So an extra day and a half making it perfect probably doubles the price.
Ralf Hedstrom I think that was well said.
Manufacturers will always leave a little meat on the nut because not everyone likes uber low action. You can always take more away, but its a bitch to add more.
Yeah, the hourly wage and or salary of the builder is also factored in. People forget that a machine can chug out a nearly perfect guitar, and that's exactly what a new USA feels like. Nearly perfect. However, the custom builder has to use many hours in labor to fine tune every aspect of the fit and the finish to your exact standards, maybe even better than you thought it needed to be as that's their profession. So many people forget that when you ask for perfection, it will take time, and costs money because it takes such a level of detail and time.
Ron Thorn is such a great guy to share his knowledge like this. I'm learning something new every time I watch him.
This gentleman didn't ramble at all - I could listen to him for hours on end talk about "flats on", "quarters on", and "riffs on". He provides such incredible insight that you wouldn't normally know. He also seems like such a sweet, genuine guy!! Man, I wish I could apprentice with him.
Thank you so much for sharing this video ❤
First of all I’m a huge fan of Ron, he is a true artisan and a super nice guy! The amount of talent he is having brought FCS a level that raises the bar much higher. I love how FCS working, they love and believe in what they are crafting and the amount of talent and looking at their customers at the same eye level is inspiring!!!
Ron is great. Would of loved to hear the rest of his Cortez story from his 1st guitar
I wanted to write the same, his story was cut short 😞
@@titane22 Me too! I guess what he was about to say, but it's sure missing!
@@sylvainswift3234 I'm in the same boat, I just happened to buy a Cortez jazz bass copy, looks like a Geddy Lee signature, would have liked to hear what his impression of his was
Back in the early eighties I bought a brand new Cortez Gibson custom Les Paul copy, it looked great but had a lot of problems ,playability wise , I'm sure I could have took it to a good luthier and got it up to shape
Yeah not sure why he was cut off there..
I have a Mexican made Strat in sunburst that is a two peice body, must have been lucky :) These Fender guys have to walk a pretty fine line. They can't say anything is wrong with the factory stuff but still need to find a way to upsell the custom shop. It's a true skill, I would probably slip up somewhere lol! Great video TTK!
Thanks Phil
There’s usually nothing wrong with the stock items. If the frets are really bad, I had the neck replaced from an authorized repairman in contact with Fender.
Pointers from a true Craftsman. Thanks for this one TK!! Some great pointers for sure!
Thank you Peter
The Tone King very informative .
Great Pointers...you have your head stuck up your ass...you definitely don't know guitars!
@@OneFlewOver1776 ik right..uhhh frets are rough..
....poor Jimi Hendrix,he must have been really limited by those second-rate off the shelf CBS guitars he was forced to use when there was no custom shop....
Mabye that's why he set his guitar on fire and smashed it
Lol great point, love tge sarcasm
Man his tone was rubbish.
@@micsunday14 live sometimes maybe, but wind cries Mary, red house, and hey Joe have some of the best blues guitar tones imaginable.
Man :) give yourself a shot and try some 60s cbs guitars. You’ll learn what rubbish is custom shop. Pure plastic don’t be naive
I like that he finds actual things to say, and notes that they are small details, rather than getting all prideful and boasting. He calmly explains how better builders, who are given more time, can get better results, while not trashing the lower quality grade. What a pro. What a great representative of the company AND the player.
to Tone King, just listen when he's explain to you!
I would love to hear everything this man has to say. I'm die hard fender, but my 2020 MIM player strat is wayyyy better than my older American standard. The new HSS player with maple neck is flawless. Splitting the coil in the 2nd position is better for me than a push pull pot, definitely my guitar for life
......totally agree. I have a new Ultra HSS & I’m getting killer tones out of it.
Great video. I love the honesty of why people get Custom Shop Fenders. It’s all about preference and personalization 🙂
yes id say its attention to detail ,same thing
The “attention to detail” stuff is only 20 minutes of extra work, and the materials are $100-$200 extra if you’re getting figured wood. Nitrocellulose isn’t expensive, and they may not use anymore anyway. You’re really paying $1,000+ for the name on the headstock, the “Corona, CA” on the neck plate, and, most importantly: the comfort in knowing your guitar is being put together by a true American craftsman that cares enough to build it like you would if you had the tools/time, and not a handful of worn out line workers that are just punching the clock and waiting for 5:00 PM to come. Not saying there is anything wrong with paying that premium if you have the money and want a great Fender guitar, but so many more folks would build or do their own setups on cheaper guitars if they understood the reality. I do have to say, huge props to Fender for being so honest and open about this stuff. Probably because the nit picky issues they’re discussing are things that 95% of guitarists would never notice over the life of the guitar, but still. Meanwhile, Gibson continues to ignore serious QC issues with their top of the line guitars and brags about how innovative it is to re-re-re-release 60 year old designs, and chooses instead to focus on shaming players for not wanting to play their overpriced and under-crafted guitars and threatening boutique builders with legal action for actually pay attention to the instruments coming out of their shops. If Gibson would just STFU for five minutes and hire people that would just build a solid guitar, like Fender has done, they would put most of the competition out of business in no time.
@Tactical Jackson That’s just it... some people are great at playing guitar, but have no idea how to work on a guitar (I know a couple players like that).🙂 If you’re fortunate enough to have the funds, why not get something customized to your playing style? Honestly, you can find a Spectacular guitar from the production line, but it seems you’ll always get a Spectacular guitar from the Custom Shop (at a price of course). 😉
Comment Highlighted #1 direct quote from my comment above: “Not saying there is anything wrong with paying that premium if you have the money and want a great Fender guitar, but so many more folks would build or do their own setups on cheaper guitars if they understood the reality.”
#2 Direct quote from comment above: “...most importantly: the comfort in knowing your guitar is being put together by a true American craftsman that cares enough to build it like you would if you had the tools/time,...”
We are completely in the same page, bud. If you have the money and building your own does not sound at all appealing: 100% buy the FCS guitar of your dreams. They are amazing American craftsman that deserve to be paid whatever the market will give them. However, there is a lot of mystique covered in nitrocellulose flavored snake-oil that discourages many from building the guitar they want (Or even knowing what guitar would truly serve them best). I gave props to fender in my comment, because they’re one of the first companies I have ever heard come out and wipe a little of that snake-oil away, and show you what you’re truly paying for. Very honest and respectable move that should push anybody to feel a little more comfortable when purchasing from Fender at any level, IMO. However, building is fun, not that expensive to get into, and so freaking rewarding. I’m even getting my kids in on the finishing work now, which is awesome for all involved. Long story turned into a novel that is now being summed up: if building sounds cool to you: do it. If not: just do the research so you know what you’re paying for. ✌🏻
@@tacticaljackson Definitely, a pro setup makes a huge difference but I haven't seen the features that I prefer in the regular lineup (believe me - I wish they did, although my old Highway One's are fairly close). I can get the neck shape & fret wire that I like in a Custom Shop guitar. And while Gibson has made some mistakes, I have two Les Pauls & a 335 that are amazing. You need to run the racks just like with any other brand.
Finally, the most interesting part is just at the end, below the sponsor logos ... what is different in a custom shop guitar: attention to details, woods and personalization
No doubt he knows what he's talking about. Thinking he could probably make any Fender the way you want it. Hence ... Custom Shop. I'm not there yet ... might need one one day!
I like how he said he cuts the g string. I’ll remember that trick from now on.
Me too brother! Me too!!🤘🏻
I appreciate the guys honesty. Thanks Louis.
Thanks as always MHH
What’s missing?a load of zeros on the price tag
Amen on that.
And a long wait
djdt77 that’s right
Daveyboy yeah five years waiting list for todd whatever who built Eric Claptons guitar that he hardly uses and has wrote zero hits on.
Thats why i buy from kiesel you can get an afordable custom usa guitar built to your exact specs for a fraction of the price. And they will do stuff that the fender and gibson custom shop never could
Love how the first guitar they pick is an American Elite, which retails for roughly $2000, and he IMMEDIATELY finds "flaws". Proper fret work, fit and finish should NOT be exclusive to custom shop guitars, ffs.
I agree, but they need a a few reasons for lawyers and people with money to burn to spend $5K on a strat, lol. If there's one thing I've learned in 25 years of playing the guitar, it's that tone is in the hands. FFS, Eddie Van Halen made his own strat out of spare electronics and pickups and a b-stock charvel body and neck and he's considered one of the greatest players and people have been chasing his tone since the first VH album came out 40 years ago!
True, true. Personally, I have had a hard time fidning any issues with any of the higher-end "production" Strats I've tried (Am. Elite, AVRI etc), and the same can be said for my Am. Standard Strat and my high-end "production" Gibsons. Maybe this guy has a special sense being a masterbuilder, or maybe it's all snake oil.
LOL, yeah and don't forget about Brian May, who built his guitar from scraps of wood, bicycle parts, and electronics from household items! And he plays that guitar to this day!
Ah, here's another one of those people who can't seem to understand simple things. He never said it wasn't proper, it's just not PERFECT. His level of fit and finish is way beyond that of normal players. You might not spot those "flaws" as fast as him because unlike him you're not a master builder that craft these guitars as your job. Jesus..
@@TheEchelon Yeah, the neck definitely shouldn't move. Ron Thorn probably definitely knows what he is doing, but just about anyone who has ever done the setup on their own guitar and maybe read a couple articles could spot something like nut not being cut deep enough. Checking the string clearance at the nut and assessing whether it is too high or too low (often an issue on guitars with locking nuts-you generally have to shim a little bit) is really basic stuff.
@@guitarsandcodeandrage9887 it was his father who put the Guitar together
Cool to hear a master builder's take on the different models... Fender really has come a long way in their more "budget" oriented line of guitars... the quality is much higher these days... I think it's safe to say the a "Custom Shop" ordered guitar is pretty much like having your very own "signature" model made for you... to your desired specs... with the woods and custom color options for finish, etc... available... and of course, the fit and finish is going to be superb... as it should because it's what you're paying for... great video, thanks! :)
From Leo: We are in the age of the best production guitars ever. Even the better Squiers are very good. As the man said, the extra money for the custom shop is a prettier piece of wood and a little more time with the sand paper, and a lot of it you can do at home. This is a lucky time for guitarists.
This is a lucky time for guitarists for sure!
What is funny is that I found the nicest patterned maple neck on a used $50 guitar. I guess that manufacturer didn't grade their prettier wood to more expensive guitars.
The lack of snake oil in off-the-rack Fenders is the most significant difference. :-)
If you are ordering a plain jane strat from the custom shop you are just asking to get pinched. Custom shop, as he said...is for more "exotic materials" and personalization; "fit and finish"
Calling it snake oil when he clearly defined what the custom shop is about sounds more like you are bitter you have to settle for Squier or run of the mill strats...which is perfectly fine too! I wish I could afford to pimp a strat from the custom shop...I too had to settle on just playing a normal fender.
My fave Strat model is the American Deluxe HSS Strats which are more "customized" than anything the CS makes, in my opinion. These might be "normal Fenders," but I happily own four of them.
Sinner Train 🚊
This is the way to shop for a guitar; take an expert with you to advise and tell the salesman to stay the f*$% away while you’re making your selections.
@@sinnertrain7405 Nice! I played Squier for years...when it came time to reach for the upper shelf...I ended up leaving with a PRS NF3...which was shocking even to me...since i spent most of my life on Fenders and was at the shop to finally get an American Strat.
This is an excellent interview, and brings me to Nigel and Marty in This is Spinal Tap. "Don't touch it...don't even look at it."
No bullshiting just the honest truth about the difference! Awesome. Thanks🤟🏻
agreed. Thx Jim.
My Squier Bronco bass that I recently shimmed the neck pocket by using a piece of a cardboard clothing tag feels a lot more playable than my 2007 MIM 70's Classic Stratocaster. I had to sand down the bass side of the neck because it was very sharp and sticking into my thumb which made it extremely uncomfortable to play. With all of that being said my MIM Strat is a little bit of a step up from my 1983 Japanese Squier Strat CBS copy. Edit: 8:05 Cortez was my first " Strat' as well 😂😂
The custom shop should come with a 20x magnifying glass .
Barry Chickini hahaha. And a free American Standard Tele
Custom shops should come with a fucking 40% off ur next guitar. Over priced for no reason at all.
Ron seems just like a seriously great guy, expertise and honesty - great combination
Uberschall JP Thank you!
It's been great seeing him in these videos to give us some inside thoughts on these things. I know it'd be tricky for him to be too harsh on the Squier guitars, but he was still honest and fair.
Wow, eyeballing intonation!!! This guy is truly a master!!!
Very cool. Wish he had picked a "Player Series" Strat to compare.
If I could ever afford a "Custom Shop" I would want this guy to build it.
I played a John Cruz one once that $7,000 and man it was awesome. He builds for Clapton and Mayer. That's good enough for me. LOL!
True , Classic player series says Custom shop designed , so ....
@@michaelworse6034 I bought the "Player Strat" a few months ago. The quality is outstanding.
Stan Parsley The Player is a fantastic instrument. It plays great, it looks great, it’s a pretty substantial chunk of wood without being overly heavy. It’s just a beautiful guitar that sounds freaking amazing.
@@katherineberger6329 Got me a sunburst 60s strat in 2010 , love it to that day . No need for another Stratocaster so far . Change the pot metal trem block to cold rolled steel , no need to change the saddles , they ' re fine .
I love this guy so honest and down to earth I got my first fender squier a month ago and I love it ( contemporary active/ w floyd rose)and I have owned many guitars over the 35 years I have been playing and I plan on getting another Squier in the near future..
This is who I want to be my wing man when its time to go guitar shopping.
Great to get to know Ron in these videos. Fender is in great hands with a nice knowledgeable guy like that.
I own a 2003 custom shop Fender Stratocaster ‘56 NOS in fiesta red with a soft-V maple neck. I played most of the MIM and MIA guitars in the music store that day, and those custom shop ones stand out in sound and playability. Worth the investment.
I have a 90s Mexican Strat with a chunk of wood glued back in it before I got it. Mirror pick guard . Finish totally rubbed off the neck. Serious character. Payed 250 bucks. Had a great luthier do a fret job..... It's fantastic.Sounds fantastic. Love it.
When I started playing in a band we had no choice but second hand guitars & just get on with it.
Grabs the neck and tweeks the neck proving the strength of Leo Fenders rugged design and timeless beauty of the Fender Stratocaster
Wow!
Never seen anyone align strings with fretboard by just grabbing it and crowing it over in the neck pocket.
Obviously this man knows what he's doing.
I never knew you could just manhandle it like that.
yeah. that was pretty insane . i was kinda confused at first and then realized what he just did.
yes. just like a woman. but it wont bitch at you
That's what the microtilt in a Fender neck is. Its actually a feature. Its one more way to align the strings to the neck and improve playability.
Caius Madison The micro-tilt doesn’t do anything for string alignment, it’s simply for adjusting the neck angle for action. Alignment is done by loosening the neck screws a little and making adjustments by tweaking the neck left or right then tightening the screws down.
@@AndGuitar that's what he did. The three bolt was left to right the four bolt is angled back or forward like on modern necks. The guitar in the video has how many bolts?
I have a strat made by Todd Krause, and I can see the attention to detail that he paid, particularly in the wood. Mine has a 5A flame maple neck, which is very precisely quarter sawn. The maple of course has tree rings, one ring in the wood in my neck is a little wider than the others, but the neck was cut so that this particular ring is on the same location on both sides, and down the middle of the edges of the head stock. Amazing. Then the body is two-piece ash, book matched, and though the guitar is finished in solid lacquer paint, the pattern of the wood is still visible. The work on the contours of the neck and body are perfect, the frets are also perfect. It's an amazing guitar, and though I cringed when I paid for it, I now think it is worth the money. A word of advice to those thinking of ordering such a guitar, avoid the heavily figured maple necks, unless you are very hand with a truss rod wrench. Seldom does a month go by when I don't have to tweak the truss rod one way or the other to keep the neck where I want it.
Loved this video! thanks for putting it together. Great topic :) Also I'm a huge Fender fan
Thanks Lando
I own both a Gibson LP Studio and a MIM Tele and my Tele is fabulous! Go Mexico!
He can be quite rude, when interviewing, just cut the guys story right out 😒
Hi Tone King. Your interviews are great! Excellent questions and you don’t talk over your guests like some people tend to do. You also chose interesting topics as well. Thank you!
Very kind of you Danny. appreciate it very much!
I would have bought that $300 guitar he said played great.
YUP!!!!
I dunno, that a huge financial risk...
It's actually only a $200.00 guitar!
Tburkulowsys I saw in another video he really liked 2 cheap guitars. I definitely would have bought one or maybe both. You have the TH-cam video to show people if you want to sell it. Though if they played as well as he said I would keep them. He looked really impressed.
noahtheviking I think we all thought the same thing at the same time.
This guy is a professional and honest
I almost passed out when he flexed the whole neck back and forth
yeeeeah, me too. 😵😂
Hes a fucking master builder dude. He builds those guitars...
The only time I've ever seen that before ... was another FCS builder! It does make a noticeable difference to have the string alignment spot-on (not too close to the edges)
Yeah, just shows you how "precise" these guitars really are... In a proper made neck socket you wouldn't be able to fit a piece of paper between the neck and the body. I've seen many Fenders on the shelf (USA Made even) with shifted necks and huge gaps. This was maybe OK 50 years ago, but let's not "replicate" that part today :/ Right now that's just poor quality.
Bruh I did that to my guitar right when I saw him do it
I love fender strat n tele, crisp n all natural no overdrive just amazing.
It passes the BS test with flying ...um...I did not think this through. Really enjoyed this chat you guys had. I love nerding out with other guitar nerds. Bliss.
Thanks Brian.
The custom shop division is indeed the highest caste in the Fender class. a touch of polish the end result is simply extraordinary. compared to the regular series
but those master built guitars honestly do sound better than standard series. Ive tested them, far more ring to them and sustain, fretboard feels amazing, plays like butter
What I'm taking from this is that the thing that seperates the custom shop and mexico models are things you can do at home. Oh, and wood selection.
By a strat alder body in your favourite colour , buy a neck that you like the feel of , buy pickups you like the sound of , by hardware that's the best for your budget , hey presto your own Custom Strat for a tenth of the price 👍
Minus the time of a Luthier making sure it is all dialed in flawlessly. Because, what is a fender but an exercise in turning a screw driver?
He SAID that he chose the orange Squire but if you watch the video he actually selected the Purple model as his final choice partly because of the purple head stock. Regardless it was nice to see a master builder making comments about what to look for when selecting guitars.
Yes, fit and finish will be spot on, but most importantly, its the customization/personalization that you pay for when you order a custom shop guitar.
Why not just get a modshop for half the price?
Ron is "The Only" Luthier on TH-cam to ever state the proper method of "Checking Slot Depth" of the nut. (Depress at 3rd, check at 1st with feeler gauge)
*TTK:* Why'd you pick the orange one?
*Custom Shop Master Builder:* I like the color.
In all seriousness, this guy has a lot of integrity for being honest and not trying to shoot down the production line guitars. And he obviously knows his stuff.
He works for Fender...I am sure it would not be in his best interest to "shoot down" the production line guitars xD
@@xzysyndrome Well, that's true. lol
@@leightyrrell5449 It was just a joke! And you're right, he did do a separate video about which Squier he'd choose, with Brian McKnight. But guess what....he didn't choose the orange one like he said in this video lol. He actually chose the purple, even though he liked the orange one a lot.
Philip McKnight did a great video of Ron Thorn playing and checking out some Squier strats. He was very impressed with the quality of the Squier stuff at the given price point. Thorn is a master.
4:44 as in "Flat sawn, flat soff."
--Mr. Miyagi
The flatsawm wood comes from the Maple logs that float whereas the Jetsawm wood comes from the Maple logs that sink...
You can tell this chap loves what he does :) You often find that with craftsmen of that calibre.
Zomby Woof Thanks!
The following day, that American strat developed a crack in the finish either side of the neck pocket
Ron mentioned Cort (Cortez guitars) at the end of the video. The funny thing is today Cort makes some of the nicest most playable and perfect guitars at their factory in Indonesia for a fraction of the price of a USA Fender. The fretwork on those guitars are really top notch. Definitely a sleeper brand.
I would of expected all Americans to have a one piece body on every guitar. Slightly surprised about this
pablo9364
I have a one piece ash tele, with clear finish. I’m lucky to have it, as I have seen a lot of two piece units just like it, made in USA. The solid painted ones, who knows?
A one piece body isn’t necessarily as stable as one using more pieces.
@@hanreality.7266 no, not more stable. Just more cool.
Han reality. Your right if it’s made to a high standard and the glueing has been done correctly. But when your paying over £1000 it would be nice to have 1 piece can’t cost fender that much extra can it? Although it’s good for the environment / trees etc
pablo9364 yep, you’re absolutely right.
I love Ron’s guitars and would like to play one of what he’s now doing with Fender. His skill and attention to detail is second to none. Fender is fortunate to have him.
Who's he jivin' with that cosmic debris?
It'll cure your asthma too!
sounds to me he's full of s..t. My MIM is 2 piece ash body no issues with frets.
I would wager my guitar on the fact that had you have picked up that fender...any of those issues he pointed out would have passed right on by your untrained eye.
A master Luthier points out minor imperfections in a production line guitar that you would not find on a custom guitar....
OMG FRET ISSUES.....FRET ISSUES!!!!1111oneoneone...
@@old706 I was actually quoting a Frank Zappa song called Cosmic Debris. Check it out.
Don't you waste your time on me
A friend of mine in high school had a black Cortez Les Paul. It was the best playing guitar that I had ever played and have not forgotten after 25 + years! I didnt realize they where $400. back then.
$1000 to “roll the edges” lol
You can take a $3 sanding sponge and 5 minutes time, to do the same thing! Not worth $1000 for sure!👍😎🎸🎶
He also said the profile of the back of the headstock, adjusted the neck to spread bass side strings and treble side strings evenly, then finished by saying it's mostly people ask for a more exotic wood on their custom instrument. Listen to everything he said not just what you're waiting to hear.
@@caiusmadison2996 how do you know what others are waiting to hear? Btw...wood is from trees, not gold mined out of the ground. It's not all that expensive!
@@74dartman13 No offense....but that was an ignorant comment. There are different grades of wood. Browse the net and search for a blank of curly maple. Hell, even some quilted maple. It is not cheap. Most of those grain profiles come from old trees with burl. Look at the PRS private stock tops. That is where the money goes.....and you want craftsmen that isn't going to fuck it up once you get your hands on it. You have to pay those people for their skilled labor. The materials and labor is LITERALLY the difference. Try building one and let me know if you change your mind.
@@caiusmadison2996 always buy instruments hands-on, try them out, take your time, and decide. Don't order over the internet, and most of the time you will have no problems what so ever. The sharp profile on the back of the head stock, might be an issue to you and many others, but it might not be an issue for equally as many, as with the frets. This are all minor things that should cost 50 USD to get fixed in a shop.
As for the wood, yes wood types range from cheap to expensive, but the whole guitar is 3.6kg maybe 3kg of wood, regardless of what kind of wood it is, it's not $1000 for 3kg of wood. Secondly custom guitars, if it isn't custom - as in completely different body design/shape there isn't much custom to it, except your specified wood is thrown in the automated router which does not care what type of wood it carves, so instead of routing 1000 maple bodies in that day, the machine makes 999 Maple bodies and 1 Rosewood.
Electric guitars/basses are in general overpriced by a lot, there is not a 50x quality difference between a Gibson or a Harley Benton, there's even less difference tonally. I can see a bigger price sticker for the Brand and sure quality checks, but that bigger sticker price should be within reason, $2500 guitars and up are not reasonable, there is literally nothing in or on them that is worth even remotely that much. And in case of Gibson, their guitars for the past couple of years have been worse than their knock-off brand Epiphone, and many other smaller brands around the world, even some Gibson counterfeits have been way better, yet Gibson kept increasing the prices? For what?
That tip on checking string height at the nut is golden
My classic vibe squire destroys any custom shop, American, and Mexican strat I have played. I had a budget of almost $2000 when I bought it and nothing in several stores felt or sounded near what that little $399 squire. Squires are killing it. I’m proud of mine.
😂
Hope you can do more videos with this master builder . I bought an affinity strat some 20 years ago they really are bang for your buck guitars.
I'am horrified how many people do not understand the concept of a custom shop and call it a scam. A custom shop builds an individual guitar after customer request. This is expensive because it does not fit in the production lines and has to be done individually. It is more expensive and customers expect better quality. So it is done by highly skilled workers, who are more expensive per hour, with more detail polishing and a better wood selection.
So if you can buy a guitar like you want it from the mass production, there is no point in going to the custom shop. Only if you exactly know what you want and it isn't available in mass production, for example a strat with 59' body, unicorn-rainbow-finish, a 62' neck and special pickups, the custom shop got you covert.
Agreed.
People who call the Custom Shop a scam should maybe try building their own guitar!
I feel the prices CS are fair enough. Of course everyone wishes a Custom Shop instrument was more affordable and we could all own one, it's just that life doesn't work that way.
If you want a CS Fender or Gibson there is only their custom services for which you can hire.
If your not into the details, custom shop guitars are not for you. Aside from the exotic woods, customization, parts.. etc.. it's the extra man hours going to well paid master builders that drive the cost up more than anything else.
Seriously. Why are you trying to explain that! I have been a guitar tech for over 20 years. I have worked as a salesman and teacher for over 10 years. I have almost had to FIGHT guys to explain the differences of quality instruments. Just look at some of the comments. Take a piece of wood, slap on some good pickups and you got a guitar just as good as a custom shop. He just EXPLAINED the differences. Did not pay attention to the 2 piece or 1 piece body. Did not pay attention to the Brazilian rosewood comment. Not to mention the hand wound pickups. Geez!
@@kckennedy55 You are 100% correct.
I think we enter into such conversations in an attempt to help others understand, to help educate what we ourselves have seen and know.
Sadly, you can't fix stupid and we get drawn in while only trying to help.
You're right, first clue would/should have been they didn't understand the video.................
Very very insightful. Great information for stigmatized mindsets.. Wow.. Thank you both. Respect the honesty both ways..
I'd leave the facet at the top of the neck. It looks better and more precise. Sanding everything off is pretty ugly.
The real value of the custom shop (if there is any) isn't monetary, it's in choice.
A good player will be able to play any of the guitars, and rolling the fretboard and customizing fretwork is inexpensive. All of the mex and USA guitars are either very good to start, or can be made very good with very little work, but a customer looking to drop $4000 isn't going to be satisfied because someone else can have the exact same thing and they don't get the song and dance of the custom purchase.
And there's nothing wrong with selling that song and dance - people want things, you give them what they want.
I have that first one you picked up... it’s got the wood lines that show through the finish the look really nice... it’s a special edition
“It’s really the finishes isn’t it”....um no. You pick literally everything you want from the custom shop, literally everything from wood type, tuning pegs, bridge, electronics, pickups, neck, color, finish....then a master guitar builder makes it for you. So I’d say that’s a significant difference from buying a guitar off a wall in a music shop.
That seems lost on a lot of folks here. And you also end up with a guitar that's essentially one of a kind.
Except when I think custom shop , I think custom inlays, hand worked, hand wound, stainless frets, exotic woods finishes and arch tops.
Great video. What I took from this was that 'what you're missing out on by not having a custom shop guitar' is things that should have been done but you can do them yourself anyway.
I don't give a Rat's Ass that my MIM Deluxe body is not made from 1 or 2 pieces. It plays great and sounds great. Gracias MIM Fender
You are correct. Only difference is single and two piece cost more but it has no affect to the sound
@@Angus576 I thought so,thanks
Very interesting "behind the curtain" insights. Thanks.
4:03 Is it just me or is Michael Palmisano walking in the background there...
Maybe the "Master Builder" can explain why so many Fenders have the necks mounted so crooked on the body?
.. a Cortez... let the guy finish what he was saying man!
Ron Thorn is very honest in this video. The beauty of Fender is you can buy a lower level guitar, and slowly rebuild it to a "Custom Shop" level. I bought a MIM Road Worn Strat for $700.00. After a $250.00 setup (fret level included), and Lollar Vintage Pickups, and CTS pots, and paper in oil capacitors, I had a very nice Strat!! You could just buy a nicely setup Strat and pay the extra $ upfront!
$2000 dollars of upcharge for about $25 bucks of additional work
ContraBand Joe Well it’s diminishing returns. Do you want a flamed neck with super rolled and polished frets, and exotic woods?
I don’t think an hour of work for $25/hour would negate the difference.
@@AlmostGrewMyHair Yeah Diminishing returns... What does a flamed neck and polished frets do for my musicianship and sound? What is the advantage of having exotic woods on a fender guitar when 99% of them are finished with a solid color? When I'm standing on a stage or playing for friends/family, are any of them thinking or whispering to each other "wow, listen to that off the rack strat, you can certainly tell he doesn't have polished frets, a flamed neck and exotic woods"...... Custom shop is marketing hyperbole.......
I always learn something new when i watch a Ron Thorne video.
@5:54 a tip of the hat to Frank Zappa
MAN YOU KNOW!! " THE REAL THING" ABOUT GUITARS!! THANKS FOR YOUR!KNOWLEDGE
So this master builder basically showed how the American elite Strat is quite poor for what it costs
Joey DiVario Matteo Not true. Remember the cost of a Custom Shop compare to American Elite. You can buy 2-3 Elites for 1 Custom Shop, so I would say the Elite is actually a bargain.
@@comment.highlighted I'm not comparing the elite to a custom shop , I'm more comparing a elite to a professional series , a players series a . I own all 3 guitars yet the fit and finish of the the elite is worse than the pro series and no much better than the players series yet cost more . It's always hit and miss with Fender guitars but then again it could be because I'm in Australia and we basically get B grade stock .
Comment Highlighted I WOULD SAY 15 SQUIRES IS EQUAL TO 1 125.00 UPGRADES AND SET UP AND FRET WORK IF YOUR CAPABIL TO DO YOUR SELF.
@@josephmittiga2373 I'm in Australia. My local shop has a Custom Shop SRV Strat Lenny replica on sale at the moment for $23k - I'd hardly call that B-Stock.
@@tdunster2011 I'm talking about their production models not custom shop .
Ron seem a nice honest guy, I’ve loved the couple of videos that he’s done with you. I think that normal production Fender guitars are good value for money within their various price bands , even the expensive Custom Shop guitars are great value when compared with other boutique USA built Stratocaster style instruments. With a little work Mexican and Squier guitars can play really great, pickups etc can always be changed if not to the players liking. I’ve got an older Mexican 70s style Stratocaster and after a setup and a set of Custom Shop pickups it’s an amazing guitar.
Cool to listen to a pro check out a guitar
I’ve seen this guy all week on a bunch of channels. I like him and I like the fact that he isn’t turning his nose up at lower end guitars. I realize who he works for, so there’s that. Still he seems very honest.
dean mccaskill Thank you!
This was my first TH-camr’s convention, I’ll be better prepared next time.
RON THORN Hi thanks for the reply! I’ve got a fairly decent collection going but now I need one of yours. I’m as they say SOLD.
All i hear im hearing is the custom shop is just glorified and way more expensive for “touch up” work.
Pretty much but they do make this stuff by a few people instead of manufacturing methods. Let’s say a masterbuilt. Components and material is probably only like $400 or something because of mass orders and in house production of electronics and parts then you can plop in labor cost. A custom shop will take a month to make by a somewhat more prestigious occupation so... give a few thousand or something for labor if we’re being loose. So let’s say a cost to make the custom shop is 2.5k roughly, then add in more costs of previous investments, being a company and accounting other variables that was somehow increase the cost and you can probably expect like around 3k. Then add the regular manufacturer to dealer then to customer markup then it’s around 7-8k.
Is it a superior product? Yes, but does the price reflect it? No, but it’s okay, because all major companies do major price fixes, so this is a standard practice.
Yup way over priced for no reason... Hell all guitars r way over priced for no reason.
Did I hear Ron say “cosmik debris”? Too funny!! I guess he’s a Zappa fan lol!
All those details he’s pointing out is for you musical genius out there who know everything but still can’t play shit.
I've seen a couple videos with that guy from fender. Seems like a real straight shooter. Love the video