Agreed. Plus, they need to sell at more locations. Comics used to be everywhere - Super Markets, every newsstand, toy stores, drug stores, department stores. More kids started on comics by asking for one when shopping with a parent than any other reason. Plus, all parents want to do today is get kids off electronics. Going back to less titles with more print run will also help make comics cheaper too. Back to basics and inspire a new generation.
I blame the Success of X-men #1. Now Marvel and to an even greater extent Dynamite Comics are releasing 5 to 10 variants. Not to mention all the store exclusive variants that Marvel and DC approve.
Im a comic store owner and you are correct. A dime is about right because we usually get stuck with books that people dont buy and already have copies that customers are trying to sell us. We dont want or need them but if youre willing to take a dime typically were willing to buy them at that rate.
@Jdubb3001 I think if people went back to just ordering comics to read, this wouldn't be so much of a problem with dime books, but instead, they are ordering to flip for profits. I remember back in my day I go to my LCS weekly to buy comics to read. Byrne FF,Simonson Thor, and Claremont X-men. I wasn't trying to buy them to flip. Just was addicted to those great stories to read. Good times 👍
I'm a 20 year old comic collector, me and all my friends watch marvel shows and movies, we play marvel rivals, and the game has been super fun. None of them collect comics or have any real interest in doing so. On the chance they do read comics (only big notorious stories like Civil War), they pirate them. There is no interest in spending money on physical comic books when the occasional online glance, or the appeal of skins that can be used in games exist. Just a simple fact of life.
I don’t disagree with your overall point but I’m a fan of looking at the entire picture. You and Swagglehaus profile collectors who are buying comics for investment, what is the percentage of middle aged men who are buying and not interested in flipping like me. I buy and don’t sell and I have to think I’m not alone in this market, I’m curious to see the percentage and compare that to the people buying and selling.
Hey Dan. I'm not looking at this from the perspective of only "investment" at all. Actually, I'm not looking at it like that at all, other than to say the people buying these books related to the video game are flippers and FOMOers. The death of the floppy comic has everything to do with the industry as a whole, and the evolution of technology, and with the fact that when mine and your generation is gone, the younger generations won't be buying new released floppy comics to read, nor to collect, because there is no intrinsic value in them (nostalgic value). And remember, I'm specifically talking about NEW comics, the ones still put out by publishers every week. I'm not talking about comics being a collectible, and people still collecting OLD comics.
@ that makes a huge difference and forgive me for not understanding that. The new comic market is something I really don’t understand and probably never will. At age 60 I’m facing the cold reality that the modern world, entertainment is completely foreign to me.
Im in my 40’s and a collector too but It would be ignorant of me to think there may not come a day where i either have to sell them off for retirement or give them to my kids for their future safety net…..if not, are you gonna ask to be buried with your comic collection? C’mon Considering this, it would not be wise to spend top dollar on anything that wont eventually be a potential return of investment or just end up as such little value that its just a burden to my kids. Just sayin
Yeah. Comics are completely dependent upon 35-50+ year olds. The Collector market is driven by people with "here today, gone tomorrow" crypto money. Also, all books are $4-$6 and you can only find them at a decreasing number of comic book shops. When I was a kid in the 90s I bought comics at my LCS, drug stores (chain and family owned), candy/news stores. Not to mention those mega packs sold at TRU and KB.
Your store selling those vintage items does nothing to disprove my point. Vintage niche markets exist for many things that are now ‘extinct’ on the primary market. Are 8 tracks and dvds mass produced today on a primary market? Nope. And they never will be ever again. THAT’S what I’m saying about comics. I’m not talking about back issues. I’m talking about the primary market floppy comic that gets distributed every Wednesday and put out by the publishers.
@ actually yeah, vinyl, bluray have new releases daily, there’s even a niche market for new cassette tapes and vhs tapes. Amazons top seller last year was a portable cassette tape and player with Bluetooth. There’s things you do not know about Gen z that your videos expose. I have under 30s buying old “dollar” books daily for $2 and $5 each, and that’s in my little mall, in a little town there’s a much larger world you are missing
@ respectfully, you are still CLEARLY missing my point (and I’m 42 years old and was around for a lot of that stuff in its day, but that’s besides the point). I don’t know how to be any clearer, yet you still want to either pick apart my argument to invalidate it, or it’s simply going over your head. What you are speaking of is a ‘relic market,’ and not a primary market of consumer goods for their respectful industry. The floppy modern comic doesn’t even fit into those categories because most of the relic consumers of comics don’t even purchase or read new releases (and there’s data to prove this). You can try to strawman my argument but the data doesn’t lie. The thing keeping the primary floppy market alive is speculators and variants. Can we breathe new life into floppies? Yes. Especially while our generations are still above ground. But we wild doing better ways to do this is we actually acknowledged the true state of things instead of acting like it doesn’t exist.
Parent of 3. You're right the kids don't care. My kids play the games, watch the movies, but they don't care about the books. I have a huge collection, and they don't read them.
Kids don't even like the movies anymore. The movies are so clearly trying to push agenda, made by and for fundamentally awful out of touch people and up it's own ass that it's quite honetly made for no one but themselves.
So do we think that the kids playing Marvel Rivals bought this book for $500? No, this book was bought by a speculator in his 50s hoping to sell it to another supervisor in his 50s. I really do believe there will be fans made by this video game, but the kids have 30 years to go before they start returning to their childhood and buying these comics.
I agree with everything you said besides the part. They won’t return to the comics because the comics aren’t a part of their childhood. The IP are, but not the comics. There will be no sentimental or nostalgia factors for them to look back on the comics.
In 25 years, most collectable categories will crash. Go look at Barbie, 12 Inch GI Joes, Old Metal Toys, Pez, etc. . It is all junk now. People like Swag have to pump the market to justify their existence. Make sure you are not putting any money into comics that you are okay with losing.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture He could still be a good guy but his channel is based on the market and people draw the conclusion that comics are investments. People across many sectors (TCGs, Baseball Cards, Toys, etc.) have lost millions because of channels like his. I appreciate you bringing the reality of what is really happening to collectables because people need to put their money elsewhere for the future.
I for sure hit some sort of mid-life crisis and started buying comics again for the first time in 15 years. I have been thinking what you said the entire time. Still spent a small fortune but it is clear to see the hobby will be over when my generation is over it.
Next years Whatnot packs will be filled with useless Variants and FOMO junk. Just my thoughts. They will make one rare book to dump them off. And the cycle continues
They tried, and it failed. Dc tried the 100 page giants in both stores, and marvel and dc did the 3 packs. It’s Simple. Because there is no real market for floppy comics anymore outside of the stain demographic of middle aged males that still collect.
Why would Walmart/Target want to stock products that are just going to rot on the shelves taking up precious space that could be occupied by products that actually move?
I'm 26. I cant speak for everyone around my age or younger. Especially since I'm already deep into the comic hobby. But I would rather buy a trade paperback or an omnibus of comics than floppies any day of the week. Even cool variant covers I would rather own as a print/poster than as a comic book to speculate on.
I hear you. Change hurts people. We like consistency...Businesses demand that formula. That is why Pan Am, Woolworth, AOL are dead and gone. Stubborn refusal to adapt. If you want to collect as a hobby, enjoy it as that and be happy. Collect watches or gas muscle cars and even digital video games...10 ~ 15 years from now, people will collect something else and fill their 3D printed houses with stuff. Even George Jetson had to find a way to decompress after a 1-hour a day to days a week work week! By the way, there are magnificent business school courses that actually speak to that cartoon and its relationship to efficiencies that were coming in the next 60 years since 1962. Air travel by jet, high speed communications via wireless processes and AI (the house maid) that could actually correct grammar. Now where did I leave my jet pack?
Not sure about the new comics but I believe the hobby will last long after we are all dead. New comics from independent creators seem to be doing extremely well. I think of the kickstarters which make huge money. There is interest when creators make things that are appealing to targeted audiences. Kids have been pushed out of the new comic space because the books have limited appeal to them. The modern comics from DC and Marvel push agendas over sales. When they focus on good stories the young readers do buy them. In order for the new comics to survive the big companies need to focus on telling good stories and they will find the audience. I feel recently there has been a cultural shift which bodes well for comics. Woke is out and companies are getting back to looking at their bottom line.
I heavily disagree with the majority of what you stated herre. Don't mistake an influx of money in certian areas of the industry as a measure of longevity or new interest. The same people putting money into kickstarters and indies (in terms of the majority) are the same demographic of collectors (middle aged males, ages 35-65). That is a statistical fact. Another statistical fact is that variants and speculation bring in more money to the primary market than any other factor. Kids were never pushed out of the comic space. Simply, kids lost interest as the world evolved around them. The only ones that came back to the hobby were the ones that loved them when THEY were kids (you and I). I respect you greatly, but the fact that you're still using the term "woke" to make an argument almost makes me not even want to respond. The only one's still using "they want to push agenda over good stories" are still the ones that don't pick up new titles and actually read them. Tell me, what was the last new title you read that pushed what you consider a "woke agenda?" I'm honestly curious. Outside of a couple of LGBTQ characters and introducing a few more minority characters, 99% of marvel and DC are telling the SAME stories that have nothing to do with "politics" or "pandering." But THAT'S the problem: It's the SAME TIRED story. Has nothing to do with agenda, and everything to do with no originality. Tell the same story in a floppy comic or a hard cover trade that resembles Dogman, and I can guarantee which medium the kids will gravitate to. Name one good story that came out over the last decade that kids bought? Even IDW's Star Wars "Adventures" series for younger readers only made sales when there was speculation on first appearances or there was some ratio variant. Are there ways to bring more interest into the primary floppy comic market? Yes, for our generation AND for younger generations, but that interest will never grow beyond a very low ceiling, because - plain and simply - things evolve and change. PERIOD. We need to tell fresh stories, with fresh characters, while keeping the legacy of pop culture icons like Spidey, in a way that fits into the way the kids consume art these days, and like it or not, it simply isn't the floppy comic.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture My thought is if kids are willing to buy manga or Scholastic books because they enjoy the content they should be convertible to enjoying stories from comics. That is if writers create stories that appeal to them. I was recently reading a golden age book and realized what I liked about it is similar to Dogman. It was anthology with short bit sized stories that are quick reads and fun. I believe this type of story telling could appeal more to kids. We definitely need the younger readers and I actually agree with you they are uninterested in the hobby. My thought is this could easily change with better writing and less pandering. For example, I read a recent Obi Wan comic where they made him look second rate compared to his female friend who had to rescue him. She was the typical girl boss, which where women are made to look good at the expense of the male characters. It was obnoxious and turned me off the comic. I used the term woke because it is associated to this type of writing style. I'm all for diverse stories but gender swapping and preaching racial grievances is annoying. Kind of like the cringe speech by Falcon where he told the politicians "to do better". This kind of stuff turns people away from comics. Manga succeeds by telling universal stories where the hero goes through the hero's journey and we as the reader feel uplifted having being a witness in their journey. How many comic books today do this? I believe you and I want the same thing. The goal is the longevity of the hobby. I really love comics and hope future generations will share in that love.
@@ComicCollectorGeek Boy did I love this comment WAY better than your first! You're a good dude and I've always respected your opinions, and you're right, we both want the same thing. And in this comment, you are actually aligning with what I am saying in many ways. The term woke needs to go. It really does. Because it's only a buzz word that will never lead to a real conversation. I hear what you're saying though about the specific example. I think this comes from what we might call "white guilt." Meaning, you have all of these middle aged white guys writing these stories and needing to 'check off' their "I did something good for oppressed peoples" box. And even though they might have good intent, it fails because it's tone deaf and actually out of touch with real-life cultural issues/experiences. Still, I don't think it's as widespread as certain people (especially rage baiters on TH-cam) make it seem. But yes, at the end of the day, these stories are barely swallowable by adults, let alone young readers. I also simply think we need to not put so much focus on the floppy if we're talking about young readers. Look at Jedi Academy. Those books used the sequential comic art format of storytelling, and brought young readers into the IP that we all grew up with. I would love to see a Dogman type publication, with original stories, with Spider-Man and friends. There are ways to get innovative while we can, but ignoring the facts won't help anybody, and the fact is, is that the current primary floppy market of floppy comics released every week is shrinking, and shrinking, and shrinking, and being kept alive by variant collectors.
True, but at the end of the day price has nothing to do with it. Look how much gaming cost. But the reading medium that is the floppy comic doesn't appeal to the younger generation. They simply don't consume art the same way.
$5.99 comic that keeps you entertained for 30 minutes tops versus $59.99 game that can entertain you for dozens, if not hundreds of hours… Price is ABSOLUTELY an issue, the value proposition of modern floppy comics is sheer insanity when treated as a medium of entertainment.
I think you're right on a number of points. The youth aren't engaged, the characters already seem ancient to them and the writing isn't appealing to them let alone many adults. Having said that, of course anime & manga are still very popular because they constantly introduce new characters, ideas and focus on the story. There is life for comics, but there needs to be an evolution into integrated media verticals. DVD, 8-Track, VHS all died because the technology evolved. But the print medium doesn't have this problem, the only way they can innovate is through production techniques and incorporating the above. The market is obviously smaller, Absolute Batman sold 400k copies, compared to 8 million spiderman in 1991, we have moved into the twighlist years and will continue to shrink, but it wont die completely. What needs to stop for sure is gimmick covers, ratios and variants. I wish publisers would just focus on good content, integrated media and publishing!
I hear you but I'm going to disagree that print doesn't have the same problem with technological evolution. Book stores are almost non-existent. even in school, most curriculum is online/digital. The bottom line is the "physical" good is becoming more and more extinct when it comes to artforms (movies, music, stories, etc.) Even art is drawn on computers rather than paper. Paper is dying. But moreso, the floppy comic. Again, even if we are focused on print, the floppy comic is the least evolved print medium. I'm not saying that we still can't innovate in some way to bring some new life into floppy comics, but it won't be much. Also, the gimmick covers, ratios and variants are what is keeping floppy comics in production. I don't know why people choose to ignore this. Month after month, the majority of what is being sold through the distributors is variants. Tell me why a company/industry would elimiate the best selling product they are producing?
@@JernosComicsPopCulture ratios, variants and gimmicks are just a band aid, they're fixing the symptoms, not the problem. I collect variants and ratios just because I like certain artwork, but it's unsustainable long term as a business model. The reality is, print runs will just have to shrink, multiple titles of the same character need to be canned. I work in technology, and I'm certain there will be a backlash at some point when people get fed up of not having true ownership of anything they've purchased. Losing access because you lose connection, or if the platform shuts down is a real problem. Either way I agree in part that the industry is on life support, and it's just spec selling to spec. The watch industry managed to carry on after digital watches came out. Yet, you don't even need a watch for the time at all nowadays. It's become a niche market and the product is treated like a commodity.
@@demwunz I'm not arguing the "niche" market. Going back to 8 tracks and cassettes... There is a 'niche' market for those that love all things vintage. I'm speaking of the primary market only. You have a point with the bandaid analogy, but who is to say that something is a "problem?" Maybe it's just how it is. Again, even if you cut titles and shrink print runs, and put more money into the writers to tell "better" stories, I am absolutely confident that it will not bring in the revenue that variant "gimmicks" bring in. Any commodity is a gimmick. Fast food is a gimmick. Starbucks is a gimmick. Sports is a gimmick. Every product made is pushed to feed into our emotions in order for us to believe that we NEED it in our lives. And the fact of the matter is, is that comic book collectors LOVE gimmicks. To me, as a businessman, I don't see that as a problem, I see that as an opportunity to fulfill a need that will result in profits.
Between stuff like Marvel Snap, Champions the card game, and now Rivals, someone at Marvel is really understanding how to proliferate their IP and build fans. Not every fan needs to participate in every form of media, but it all feeds together in the end. Comic story publishing can live on digitally if it needs to for a long time. I'm even OK with that as a reader. I'll still collect and display classic floppies.
Comic Books, like vinyl, will make a comeback I believe. It won't happen for about five to ten years. We are heading for a trade war and deep recession. Not a great time to sell. In the meantime, buy those key books for cheap. A down market = opportunity
The ones who find vinyl nostalgic that have allowed it to be a niche market are the same age group as the main comic collectors. That nostalgia - for the most part - dies with them. There is no nostalgia in new comics.
Well said Chris. Todays generation is brought up in a strictly digital world of reality and commerce. Videos games are now digital... artwork, comics, books, music, almost everything tangible and collectible is being replaced. Even currency itself. Thats because it's cheaper and more profitable to create and mass distribute items that are created using digital 1s and 0s than the actual tangible items themselves in which you have to purchase materials and invest a portion of your own funds into creating them that reduce the amount of profit you can make as well as limiting mass production. We have been transitioning into a digital era where people of the new generation see the older generations and their ways as dead and obsolete and invest in these older items in their own eras way (digitally speaking) which creates more freed-up space in their physical environment. But here's the thing most people miss. Not if, but when, the time comes when we climb to the height beyond the economical equilibrium meant to maintain stability and order (or when we face a cyber threat from a foreign enemy or universal AI system beyond our ability to control that becomes too dangerous to keep it going ) and this evolving and expanding digital bubble pops or gets shut down, it will be those few who held on to their tangible when everyone gave up on theirs who will be left holding all the riches in the end because they will be even more rarer than ever before.
3 stages to this pump and dump digital world order: 1. Get everyone invested where they phase everything else out 2. Make it so that everything else is seen as worthless so that people will rid themselves of these things, while only a few in the know secretly hold on to them. 3. When everyone is following the digital system and way of reality and have shed the old ways....Crash the system, so that that only the few who secretly held onto their tangible will be the ones that will be standing on top. This is how most economical systems of manipulation work today by the few who set and govern the way.
All things opperate through opposing polarities of expansion and contraction to keep order, stability and maintain equilibrium. The people who lead and pave the economicical way know this. And I believe the expanding digital bubble (if it evolves to quickly with too much force) will eventually pop from a multitude of reasons. But if done correctly, it will play out more along these lines: 1. Everyone slowly begins to transition over, and kids are raised in a new digital world of acceptance. 2. Those who have tangibles of value will begin shedding themselves of them from seeing the new coming digital shift and trend (lessing the amount of them) 3. Eventually almost everyone will have shifted over and gotten rid of their tangible investments in trying to stay current with economical trends 4. Once everyone has shifted over, a shift will then occur where the digital reality will pop from some type of danger. The very few who foresaw this catastrophic event and saved their items (even when they were viewed as worthless) will now have items beyond rare that will be sought after again. But in order to make these items valuable and in high demand, you first have to make them extremly rare by causing the whole world to give up on them and shed themselves of them to lessen the supply. Once the supply has been stripped down vastly that's when you create a global demand through catastrophe (wether designed by man or natural occuring).
😂 I’m not a kid, nor am I young. I’ve been collecting for almost 40 years and never plan on stopping. But you clearly have your blinders on. I get it. It’s sad to acknowledge the truth
@@JernosComicsPopCulture No Blinders. CGC has brought in the speculators but they are not 90'a Speculators. A Leveling has occured and great to see people lose this imaginary money they thought they had.
I guess its a mindset saying Marvel and DC Suck right now. Saying the comic market is dying. Its not dying it desperately needs to evolve. This can not and will not be all money. Most Comis You Tube are speculators. I respect you a little moe because you do feel like a real collector
Ice tea is not even close to the talent that LL is. He can’t rap, he can’t act and he has very little class. How he became a tv regular is a mystery, who tunes in to see him?
The game is a digital fix. The floppy comics would include them reading, which they'll say is boring. Gen Z and Alpha are video screen attached almost from birth.
Comic books as a medium will always exist. As a print industry, nah. It's been dead for years. It's been hanging on for years & it's never evolved or changed. Comics in USA needs to take cues from manga in Japan, where the medium has never been more relevant to their culture
Disney Comics doesn't know how to transfer games interest to comic sales, did the Marvel Cinematic Universe had to more sales of floppies? Nope. Heck you would think they would take advantage of all the interest in Marvel Vs Capcom collection. Nope, keep sinking the ship Disney.
to prove my point. go check out a school library. yup no books. kids today are NOT into paper or physical media. theyd rather buy skins for the game than a comic.
That’s for being a good sport. Let’s definitely continue the discussion. I know it’s tough to be perfectly clear with everything, but I hope I added enough context.
New comics minus a few exceptions will be worth less than the comics printed the last 15-20 years. It's pretty much the same thing as you mentioned before. It is sadly a future that we can not avoid. On the plus side those of us will have an opportunity to get floppies very cheap. I put a lot of blame on the writing. I think it might be time to let some characters age out to make room for newer ideas.
@JernosComicsPopCulture I've considered taking a title and picking it up at a spot in continuity and write and draw it how I felt it should have been. If you haven't seen/read John Byrnes xmen elsewhen you should as his pencils are reminiscent of his early xmen days. It's inspiring.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record....Jerno....bear with me here.....but I've said this probably several times here on your channel over the last couple of years, but yeah....who are we middle aged collectors going to sell (or even dump) our collections onto when we're done with them in 20 or 30 years from now? Our kids won't have space in their shrinking homes (if they can even afford a home given the rise in house values) for dad's dusty collection of 20 long boxes, 15 short boxes and a bunch of other random collectibles like action figures, statues, prints, funkos and whatever else we Gen-Xers and older Millennials think we're going to retire rich on. Kids aren't as interested in comics as we are. I offer my kids comics when I'm at the shop, and they *might* take me up on the offer. They *might* read what I buy them. But usually they give the comic back and ask me to "keep it safe for them". I stand by my point that I've been making for years now - unless something drastic happens, our supply of slabs and long boxes of comics are going to far exceed the demand for them. I wish that weren't true - not because I want the value to steadily climb, but because technology is slowly but surely making reading and physical media a thing of the past. I don't know where all this leads. I will continue to buy the books I want to read and enjoy. I will "invest" in keys that bring me joy. When it's time to let them go, I'll cross that bridge. But I don't think you're wrong. Maybe you and I skew a little more toward "pessimist" rather than what we think is "realist" but I'd rather hope for the best and plan for the worst....that's why I try not to let my collection get overly large. I don't want to be 70 years old and having to do all the legwork in finding a home for my collection. Cheers dude. I hope you're feeling better. Fluids and rest. Rinse and repeat. Tis the season.
Perfectly said, Kyle. The irony about me addressing these things is that we do a lot more damage to the hobby when we ignore them, because we don’t see how we are becoming a detriment to our own hobby that we love. If we accepted reality, and let go of our pride and ego, we can actually start making conscious shifts to maybe shift the direction, even is just a little bit.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture You probably see yourself as a steward of the hobby. I my own way, I do as well, although I no longer have a platform for myself other than the comment section. I think slowly but surely, people are starting to see that their overgrown collections may not translate to the stacks of cash they expected them to be in 20-30 years from now. But for every person who wakes up to that potential scenario there are probably a handful of others who dig in, afraid to admit that the time and money spent on expensive paper may have been for naught (despite the common knowledge that comics aren't a great investment to begin with). The question I keep asking myself is "now what?". If we determine that comics are on life support, and feel like our collections will only decrease in value over time (excluding golden age books and silver age grails), what do we do? The best time to sell them was yesterday. Or last year. The next best time is tomorrow. But most of us, myself included, aren't ready to let go of what may be a big anchor for someone to deal with down the line. Scary thoughts!
I totally agree with you. I only buy what I like in the future my grandkids wanna keep it fine but I never looking to make money out out of it. I do have a couple of. Comics that I know I’m gonna make money to to go on vacation
I would argue the multiple variants for each book is hurting collecting, not helping. Should just be 1 or 2 variants for key books and leave filler issues alone. Also people in the 50s thought comics wouldn't last either, they burned them and threw them out but comics evolved..it can do it again
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You posed strong opinions, but did not provide any examples. I would love to know why you feel multiple variants are "hurting" collecting. Let me add a few positives to what multiple variants do: 1. Employ artists. 2. Bring in revenue to the publishers AND comic shops which keeps people interested in floppy comics and the hobby as a whole. 3. Variant sales have been well over the majority of direct sales for a couple years now, so likely, without them, those titles that you love and enjoy would probably stop being printed. As for peope in the 50s thinking comics wouldn't last, completely different scenarios and factors. Even if interset in comics was still thriving (which it isn't), technological advancements and how we consume different mediums will be the death of the floppy comic. It truly is "inevitable."
@JernosComicsPopCulture @JernosComicsPopCulture all valid points but multiple variants are flooding the shelves of comic stores, often going unsold also and put into storage. I mean is someone out there collecting all 106 variants of Batman 50. Please calm down with the variants, i like them too and i buy them but i dont need so fricken many..its too many. 5 or so for big keys, keep your artists employed. This could free up some of the artists time so that more comic shops could hire these people to do their store exclusives for filler issues or w/e
@@adamleitman8116 Okay I like where your heart is at for this, but you're still leading with emotion rather than logic. First, it doesn't matter if a large majority of those comics don't sell once in the LCS. Why? Because the LCS is buying them from the publishers. And THAT is all tha matters when it comes to keeping the presses running. I like your idea about having artists free'd up and focusing on exclusives, but that's a pipe dream. The LCS is dying, more and more closing their doors every month, and you think the remaining shops can pump out literally hundreds upon hundreds of pieces each week? No. They simply can't. Variants are keeping artists employed and getting work from the publishers is the only real viable consistant work that is sustainable. Ultimately, I don't like variants either. But it doesn't impact me and how I collect at all. Again, it actually keeps the press running for those cover A's that I have mail subscriptins of. I understand where you are coming from in terms of the sentiment and emotion behind your thoughts, but I'm not hearing any facts/data or real argument here to invalidate my points. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's reality, and it's just time that we all face it. Once we actually admit the facts, THEN maybe we can come to the table to put together REAL solutions to REAL problems.
@JernosComicsPopCulture pretty sure ill be good and dead before comics are. Ive got 2 or 3 shops in my city that have been open since the 70s. They survived the 90s and all the ups and downs since. We need more of a social media presence. More people like Comic Tom, or Todd McFarlane or Kevin Eastman's breathing excitement into the collecting again
@@adamleitman8116 I think you're now mistaking what I'm saying. Now it seems as if you think I'm saying comics will be dead as in they will just cease to exist as a whole. No. The primary market of floppy comics is dying and will no longer exist in a couple decades. Meaning, no more new floppy comics coming out every week. I'm not talking about there being no market for comics as a collectible, even though that market is getting smaller and smaller as well. As for those shops that survived the 90s, they are becoming more and more extinct. And if you're around my age or older, then you are right. As soon as those who are 35-65 are dead and gone, it's scary to think what even comics as a collectibles market will look like, when the main consumer no longer exists.
I think floppy comics will stay alive but in the same way vinyl records have where there is a market for new ones but it is not mainstream. People will always like something that they can physically hold in their hands but Marvel and DC have lost the plot at this point. The stories are mostly just bad and have been for a long time now.
I agree with you for our generation, because it’s our generation that keeps the niche market of vinyl alive. We are the last generation that cares about physical things to hold.
If it wasn’t for people digging out their old collections during Covid and then people seeing dollar signs in their eyes (which was helped along by opportunistic TH-camr “influencers”, comics would probably be dead already
To me the solution seems obvious - DC and Marvel need to sell more floppies at a cheaper price - so go back to newsprint or cheaper paper, put ads in comics, and put comics everywhere - grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, etc. - get them in the hands of kids - get them in the hands of parents who can pick up a couple at the grocery store to give their kids as entertainment. Make the stories kid friendly and young adult and make the stories solid and the art solid - and stop with the political stuff and the woke nonsense. Comics have to be QUALITY entertainment for kids and young people and cheap. I could be wrong but I assume that selling more copies of something at a cheaper price can still yield a decent profit. But comics are too damn expensive. You can but killer games on sale for $5 $10 and $20 by comparison and get entertainment that lasts for hour and hours.
I've believed this for awhile. Comics have a limited shelf-life. Everywhere I go, the overwhelming majority buying comics are 40-60 yrd old men. It's going the way of stamps, 8-tracks, etc.
I still have New Agents of Atlas in my PC. Fun read. Cool characters. I feel like speculation killed it. Marvel should have done more with those characters in the form of comic books. This is not what I imagined for New Agents of Atlas's "return." If Marvel really wanted to capitalize, why did they only create five Netease Marvel Rivals covers? Luna Snow isn't even one of the covers. If they wanted to bring in younger readers from this Marvel Rivals interest and hype, they should have made more covers. There are over 30 characters.
Yeah the covers aren't even to market to the kids. They are all cover swipes and homages of comics that are nostalgic to middle aged collectors. Marvel knows what they are doing. It's not about the characters when it comes to the comics, its about bringing in the base they know is still spending money on floppy comics.
i got about 9 min in, I agree, but i think its cost. two comics is a month on Netflix. other entertainment is cheaper for greater entertainment (time).
Cost is a big problem, but also, a Dogman or Manga costs more than a floppy, and they are leading the way. Even with the younger generation. Why? Because the floppy comic is obsolete.
Respectfully don’t agree but I’m subscribing and listening. I was surrounded growing up by people not in the hobby, so I continue to think there is an existing niche group of all ages reading, but I can admit I could be wrong. I’ll keep seeking the truth. Thanks for your reasonable argument. Be seeing you.
Thanks for the sub and for sharing your thoughts! I will ask, how old are you? Also, I'm clearly not denying the "niche" market. But like I said, there is still a 'niche' market for 8 tracks, cassette tapes, etc. But are those still produced as a new way to consume music? Nope. Just like floppy comics won't be the new way to consume comic art and stories. Much of the "niche" market is so heavily based in nostalgia, and once my generation goes, so does that nostalgia. I'm an educator, and I see kids reading everyday. But they don't read floppy comics. They read comic-style trades and graphic novels. Out of my 6 years as an educator at the elementary level (teaching English and working with multiple grades from 1st-6th), I've seen one floppy comic in the hands of a kid and he said his dad gave it to him (it was a Marvel Tales from the early 80s). Kids that are into Miles morales don't buy his comics. They wear his clothes, play his video game, watch his animated films, and read the graphic novel type books that you see in the book fairs. We are evolving beyond the was of the past, in many, many ways.
Comics are fire, LOL but good post... This has been one of the best years on record... Winning... Love ya brother... One day we need to do a one on one...
Is the the same Jesse James that is on Bryan's show? If so, we probably agree on so much. Many people are missing the point of what I'm doing and saying here, to say the least.
I read your comment but I don't see it anymore. About back issues: I'm not talking about back issues at all. My ENTIRE argument has NOTHING to do with back issues (outside of who is buying these spec books). When I say the floppy comic is on life support, I'm specifically talking about the primary market floppy comic.
Thank you for this bro all the cons and shops I go To its middle age Men and older guys buying the comics not kids they barely even pick up a comic it’s all about video games 😂 it’s the next fomo thing just like the what not packs now no One wants them now it’s just the hot thing for the moment then the next thing drops it’s a cycle lol
I am sick of hearing about you spouting nonsense with Marvel Rivals. You are wrong with everything you say. The game is bigger then the MCU period end of story. Its not a flash in the pan,. its an overwatch killer and Overwatch has been around for 8 years. And now I am going to have to record a response to you. Youngfer kids have more interest in gaming then almost anything else, it will bring more younger readers to comics, and to not think that shows you are out of touch and out of time.
Clearly, you missed the point I was making. The game is huge. But that has nothing to do with comic books and comic sales. Lastly, go ahead and make a response. I know enough about who you are to know that you’re only here on TH-cam to stir up drama. But I graduated high school many years ago. So do you, my guy. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture incorrect, it is painfully clear to me you have little understanding this game has, its bigger then the entire MCU. Also I am not "your guy" I am the guy. Just wait sir, I cut a video just to educate you and educate you I shall
I agree. I got into superheroes because of TV shows and the MCU. The fact that some people believe the younger generation is buying those books is wild. Teenagers are not the ones spending CGC 9.8 type money. Once the older generation has gone, I can see comics dropping in price significantly. I could see a lot of books entering the market in the next 15-20 years. Comics will be passed down to their grandkids, and they will sell them for cheap. Not everyone will, but a handful. I don’t see anyone born in 2030 or 2040 interested in paper books when they were never exposed to them for entertainment. They’ll see comic books as just a book collection belonging to their grandpa. I am at the age where I was exposed to DVDs and physical textbooks and video games but now as a 19 year old all my friends and I purchase our video games digitally, and our college homework and textbook are all online. Also it’s funny but most people my age are definitely not looking to flip comic books and make profit off of FOMO. That’s busy work( a job) I only see someone who is truly into comics or business flipping comics. That’s one of the reasons why I call myself a part-time collector, because Comics don’t consume my every thought. And I have other interest that bring me joy. Watching movies and playing video games and collecting comics is just a side hobby
Comes in cycles.. you could have said the same thing when the nes came out..everything comes in cycles...im still waiting for pet rocks or its equivalent to come back..
I don't think that's the best analogy, honestly. For artform in that context is video games. Yes, the NES is now outdated, but video games evolved. Just like the comic art/story. Comic book art and stories are not dying, the floppy is. Comics are evolving beyond the floppy.
@JernosComicsPopCulture and ...shit gets stale.. you and I played with nes.. gi joe.. transformers.. but ya just grow out of it.. usually.. then later that nostalgia hits..and this has been true since before our time and will be no different in 50.. 100 years. What I'm saying is.. hold on to all those junk funco pops till the this generation gets to be mid 30s...
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are you canadian? why the maple leaf hat? lol
@alexnas9634 I am not. I just wear a lot of different hats.
is that a yes? lol
@@alexnas9634 Um.. I said no, I'm not. I'm from the Bay. California. Born and raised.
New comic books are too expensive and have far too many variants now.
Agreed. Plus, they need to sell at more locations. Comics used to be everywhere - Super Markets, every newsstand, toy stores, drug stores, department stores. More kids started on comics by asking for one when shopping with a parent than any other reason. Plus, all parents want to do today is get kids off electronics. Going back to less titles with more print run will also help make comics cheaper too. Back to basics and inspire a new generation.
I blame the Success of X-men #1. Now Marvel and to an even greater extent Dynamite Comics are releasing 5 to 10 variants. Not to mention all the store exclusive variants that Marvel and DC approve.
For a long time, I didn't know when middle-age would start for me. Then I got back into collecting comics in Nov 2022. Now I know.
99 percent of new comics end up in the dollar box, and even a dealer won't give you a dollar, maybe a dime.
Im a comic store owner and you are correct. A dime is about right because we usually get stuck with books that people dont buy and already have copies that customers are trying to sell us. We dont want or need them but if youre willing to take a dime typically were willing to buy them at that rate.
@Jdubb3001
I think if people went back to just ordering comics to read, this wouldn't be so much of a problem with dime books, but instead, they are ordering to flip for profits. I remember back in my day I go to my LCS weekly to buy comics to read. Byrne FF,Simonson Thor, and Claremont X-men. I wasn't trying to buy them to flip. Just was addicted to those great stories to read. Good times 👍
@@teetoo3790Once the Death of Superman spec was in full swing, that was the beginning of the end of buying to read, imo.
I'm a 20 year old comic collector, me and all my friends watch marvel shows and movies, we play marvel rivals, and the game has been super fun. None of them collect comics or have any real interest in doing so. On the chance they do read comics (only big notorious stories like Civil War), they pirate them. There is no interest in spending money on physical comic books when the occasional online glance, or the appeal of skins that can be used in games exist. Just a simple fact of life.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
FOMO. Dealers charging 1.5 time FMV. TOO MANY VARIANTS. These are all sides of the same coin.
I don’t disagree with your overall point but I’m a fan of looking at the entire picture. You and Swagglehaus profile collectors who are buying comics for investment, what is the percentage of middle aged men who are buying and not interested in flipping like me. I buy and don’t sell and I have to think I’m not alone in this market, I’m curious to see the percentage and compare that to the people buying and selling.
Hey Dan. I'm not looking at this from the perspective of only "investment" at all. Actually, I'm not looking at it like that at all, other than to say the people buying these books related to the video game are flippers and FOMOers. The death of the floppy comic has everything to do with the industry as a whole, and the evolution of technology, and with the fact that when mine and your generation is gone, the younger generations won't be buying new released floppy comics to read, nor to collect, because there is no intrinsic value in them (nostalgic value). And remember, I'm specifically talking about NEW comics, the ones still put out by publishers every week. I'm not talking about comics being a collectible, and people still collecting OLD comics.
@ that makes a huge difference and forgive me for not understanding that. The new comic market is something I really don’t understand and probably never will. At age 60 I’m facing the cold reality that the modern world, entertainment is completely foreign to me.
Im in my 40’s and a collector too but It would be ignorant of me to think there may not come a day where i either have to sell them off for retirement or give them to my kids for their future safety net…..if not, are you gonna ask to be buried with your comic collection? C’mon Considering this, it would not be wise to spend top dollar on anything that wont eventually be a potential return of investment or just end up as such little value that its just a burden to my kids. Just sayin
Yeah. Comics are completely dependent upon 35-50+ year olds. The Collector market is driven by people with "here today, gone tomorrow" crypto money.
Also, all books are $4-$6 and you can only find them at a decreasing number of comic book shops. When I was a kid in the 90s I bought comics at my LCS, drug stores (chain and family owned), candy/news stores. Not to mention those mega packs sold at TRU and KB.
I called Swag out on this on his video. The ONLY PEOPLE WHO CARE about comic prices are those trying to make a quick buck.
You might have a point if my two stores didn’t sell 8 tracks, cassettes, vinyl records and DVDs and Blu-ray’s and filler comics every day…
Your store selling those vintage items does nothing to disprove my point. Vintage niche markets exist for many things that are now ‘extinct’ on the primary market. Are 8 tracks and dvds mass produced today on a primary market? Nope. And they never will be ever again. THAT’S what I’m saying about comics. I’m not talking about back issues. I’m talking about the primary market floppy comic that gets distributed every Wednesday and put out by the publishers.
@ actually yeah, vinyl, bluray have new releases daily, there’s even a niche market for new cassette tapes and vhs tapes. Amazons top seller last year was a portable cassette tape and player with Bluetooth. There’s things you do not know about Gen z that your videos expose. I have under 30s buying old “dollar” books daily for $2 and $5 each, and that’s in my little mall, in a little town there’s a much larger world you are missing
@ respectfully, you are still CLEARLY missing my point (and I’m 42 years old and was around for a lot of that stuff in its day, but that’s besides the point).
I don’t know how to be any clearer, yet you still want to either pick apart my argument to invalidate it, or it’s simply going over your head.
What you are speaking of is a ‘relic market,’ and not a primary market of consumer goods for their respectful industry. The floppy modern comic doesn’t even fit into those categories because most of the relic consumers of comics don’t even purchase or read new releases (and there’s data to prove this).
You can try to strawman my argument but the data doesn’t lie. The thing keeping the primary floppy market alive is speculators and variants. Can we breathe new life into floppies? Yes. Especially while our generations are still above ground. But we wild doing better ways to do this is we actually acknowledged the true state of things instead of acting like it doesn’t exist.
Truth. Older (pre-modern) will continue to hold origin & nostalgia value but kids are not buying comics the way they are cardboard.
Trade Paperbacks will replace floppies in the future.
Parent of 3. You're right the kids don't care. My kids play the games, watch the movies, but they don't care about the books. I have a huge collection, and they don't read them.
Kids don't even like the movies anymore.
The movies are so clearly trying to push agenda, made by and for fundamentally awful out of touch people and up it's own ass that it's quite honetly made for no one but themselves.
So do we think that the kids playing Marvel Rivals bought this book for $500? No, this book was bought by a speculator in his 50s hoping to sell it to another supervisor in his 50s. I really do believe there will be fans made by this video game, but the kids have 30 years to go before they start returning to their childhood and buying these comics.
I agree with everything you said besides the part. They won’t return to the comics because the comics aren’t a part of their childhood. The IP are, but not the comics. There will be no sentimental or nostalgia factors for them to look back on the comics.
In 25 years, most collectable categories will crash. Go look at Barbie, 12 Inch GI Joes, Old Metal Toys, Pez, etc. . It is all junk now. People like Swag have to pump the market to justify their existence. Make sure you are not putting any money into comics that you are okay with losing.
I disagree with your opinion on Swag. He’s a good guy that I’m honored to call a friend.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture He could still be a good guy but his channel is based on the market and people draw the conclusion that comics are investments. People across many sectors (TCGs, Baseball Cards, Toys, etc.) have lost millions because of channels like his. I appreciate you bringing the reality of what is really happening to collectables because people need to put their money elsewhere for the future.
I for sure hit some sort of mid-life crisis and started buying comics again for the first time in 15 years. I have been thinking what you said the entire time. Still spent a small fortune but it is clear to see the hobby will be over when my generation is over it.
Next years Whatnot packs will be filled with useless Variants and FOMO junk. Just my thoughts. They will make one rare book to dump them off. And the cycle continues
I don't understand why Marvel & DC don't sell comic books at Walmart & Target?
They tried, and it failed. Dc tried the 100 page giants in both stores, and marvel and dc did the 3 packs. It’s Simple. Because there is no real market for floppy comics anymore outside of the stain demographic of middle aged males that still collect.
Kids aren't interested in comics even if you give them away for free. They get more enjoyment from video games and tiktok.
Why would Walmart/Target want to stock products that are just going to rot on the shelves taking up precious space that could be occupied by products that actually move?
You and Mickey are aggressively agreeing 😅
lol we find it funny that we are agreeing yet people in the comments are still taking sides.
Content Creator “Agree Beef” 😂
😂😂 I think we started a new trend!
I'm 26. I cant speak for everyone around my age or younger. Especially since I'm already deep into the comic hobby. But I would rather buy a trade paperback or an omnibus of comics than floppies any day of the week. Even cool variant covers I would rather own as a print/poster than as a comic book to speculate on.
Thank you for sharing your personal experiences!
I hear you. Change hurts people. We like consistency...Businesses demand that formula. That is why Pan Am, Woolworth, AOL are dead and gone. Stubborn refusal to adapt. If you want to collect as a hobby, enjoy it as that and be happy. Collect watches or gas muscle cars and even digital video games...10 ~ 15 years from now, people will collect something else and fill their 3D printed houses with stuff. Even George Jetson had to find a way to decompress after a 1-hour a day to days a week work week! By the way, there are magnificent business school courses that actually speak to that cartoon and its relationship to efficiencies that were coming in the next 60 years since 1962. Air travel by jet, high speed communications via wireless processes and AI (the house maid) that could actually correct grammar. Now where did I leave my jet pack?
Not sure about the new comics but I believe the hobby will last long after we are all dead. New comics from independent creators seem to be doing extremely well. I think of the kickstarters which make huge money. There is interest when creators make things that are appealing to targeted audiences. Kids have been pushed out of the new comic space because the books have limited appeal to them. The modern comics from DC and Marvel push agendas over sales. When they focus on good stories the young readers do buy them. In order for the new comics to survive the big companies need to focus on telling good stories and they will find the audience. I feel recently there has been a cultural shift which bodes well for comics. Woke is out and companies are getting back to looking at their bottom line.
I heavily disagree with the majority of what you stated herre. Don't mistake an influx of money in certian areas of the industry as a measure of longevity or new interest. The same people putting money into kickstarters and indies (in terms of the majority) are the same demographic of collectors (middle aged males, ages 35-65). That is a statistical fact. Another statistical fact is that variants and speculation bring in more money to the primary market than any other factor.
Kids were never pushed out of the comic space. Simply, kids lost interest as the world evolved around them. The only ones that came back to the hobby were the ones that loved them when THEY were kids (you and I).
I respect you greatly, but the fact that you're still using the term "woke" to make an argument almost makes me not even want to respond. The only one's still using "they want to push agenda over good stories" are still the ones that don't pick up new titles and actually read them. Tell me, what was the last new title you read that pushed what you consider a "woke agenda?" I'm honestly curious. Outside of a couple of LGBTQ characters and introducing a few more minority characters, 99% of marvel and DC are telling the SAME stories that have nothing to do with "politics" or "pandering." But THAT'S the problem: It's the SAME TIRED story. Has nothing to do with agenda, and everything to do with no originality.
Tell the same story in a floppy comic or a hard cover trade that resembles Dogman, and I can guarantee which medium the kids will gravitate to. Name one good story that came out over the last decade that kids bought? Even IDW's Star Wars "Adventures" series for younger readers only made sales when there was speculation on first appearances or there was some ratio variant.
Are there ways to bring more interest into the primary floppy comic market? Yes, for our generation AND for younger generations, but that interest will never grow beyond a very low ceiling, because - plain and simply - things evolve and change. PERIOD. We need to tell fresh stories, with fresh characters, while keeping the legacy of pop culture icons like Spidey, in a way that fits into the way the kids consume art these days, and like it or not, it simply isn't the floppy comic.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture My thought is if kids are willing to buy manga or Scholastic books because they enjoy the content they should be convertible to enjoying stories from comics. That is if writers create stories that appeal to them.
I was recently reading a golden age book and realized what I liked about it is similar to Dogman. It was anthology with short bit sized stories that are quick reads and fun. I believe this type of story telling could appeal more to kids. We definitely need the younger readers and I actually agree with you they are uninterested in the hobby. My thought is this could easily change with better writing and less pandering.
For example, I read a recent Obi Wan comic where they made him look second rate compared to his female friend who had to rescue him. She was the typical girl boss, which where women are made to look good at the expense of the male characters. It was obnoxious and turned me off the comic. I used the term woke because it is associated to this type of writing style. I'm all for diverse stories but gender swapping and preaching racial grievances is annoying. Kind of like the cringe speech by Falcon where he told the politicians "to do better". This kind of stuff turns people away from comics. Manga succeeds by telling universal stories where the hero goes through the hero's journey and we as the reader feel uplifted having being a witness in their journey. How many comic books today do this?
I believe you and I want the same thing. The goal is the longevity of the hobby. I really love comics and hope future generations will share in that love.
@@ComicCollectorGeek Boy did I love this comment WAY better than your first! You're a good dude and I've always respected your opinions, and you're right, we both want the same thing. And in this comment, you are actually aligning with what I am saying in many ways. The term woke needs to go. It really does. Because it's only a buzz word that will never lead to a real conversation. I hear what you're saying though about the specific example. I think this comes from what we might call "white guilt." Meaning, you have all of these middle aged white guys writing these stories and needing to 'check off' their "I did something good for oppressed peoples" box. And even though they might have good intent, it fails because it's tone deaf and actually out of touch with real-life cultural issues/experiences.
Still, I don't think it's as widespread as certain people (especially rage baiters on TH-cam) make it seem. But yes, at the end of the day, these stories are barely swallowable by adults, let alone young readers. I also simply think we need to not put so much focus on the floppy if we're talking about young readers. Look at Jedi Academy. Those books used the sequential comic art format of storytelling, and brought young readers into the IP that we all grew up with. I would love to see a Dogman type publication, with original stories, with Spider-Man and friends.
There are ways to get innovative while we can, but ignoring the facts won't help anybody, and the fact is, is that the current primary floppy market of floppy comics released every week is shrinking, and shrinking, and shrinking, and being kept alive by variant collectors.
You gotta get comics in kids' hands BEFORE they can play video games, but at $5.99 cover price that ain't happening.
True, but at the end of the day price has nothing to do with it. Look how much gaming cost. But the reading medium that is the floppy comic doesn't appeal to the younger generation. They simply don't consume art the same way.
$5.99 comic that keeps you entertained for 30 minutes tops versus $59.99 game that can entertain you for dozens, if not hundreds of hours…
Price is ABSOLUTELY an issue, the value proposition of modern floppy comics is sheer insanity when treated as a medium of entertainment.
Never knew there was a Vol. 3 of West Coast Avengers.🤔
I think you're right on a number of points. The youth aren't engaged, the characters already seem ancient to them and the writing isn't appealing to them let alone many adults.
Having said that, of course anime & manga are still very popular because they constantly introduce new characters, ideas and focus on the story.
There is life for comics, but there needs to be an evolution into integrated media verticals. DVD, 8-Track, VHS all died because the technology evolved. But the print medium doesn't have this problem, the only way they can innovate is through production techniques and incorporating the above.
The market is obviously smaller, Absolute Batman sold 400k copies, compared to 8 million spiderman in 1991, we have moved into the twighlist years and will continue to shrink, but it wont die completely.
What needs to stop for sure is gimmick covers, ratios and variants. I wish publisers would just focus on good content, integrated media and publishing!
I hear you but I'm going to disagree that print doesn't have the same problem with technological evolution. Book stores are almost non-existent. even in school, most curriculum is online/digital. The bottom line is the "physical" good is becoming more and more extinct when it comes to artforms (movies, music, stories, etc.) Even art is drawn on computers rather than paper. Paper is dying. But moreso, the floppy comic. Again, even if we are focused on print, the floppy comic is the least evolved print medium.
I'm not saying that we still can't innovate in some way to bring some new life into floppy comics, but it won't be much. Also, the gimmick covers, ratios and variants are what is keeping floppy comics in production. I don't know why people choose to ignore this. Month after month, the majority of what is being sold through the distributors is variants. Tell me why a company/industry would elimiate the best selling product they are producing?
@@JernosComicsPopCulture ratios, variants and gimmicks are just a band aid, they're fixing the symptoms, not the problem. I collect variants and ratios just because I like certain artwork, but it's unsustainable long term as a business model.
The reality is, print runs will just have to shrink, multiple titles of the same character need to be canned.
I work in technology, and I'm certain there will be a backlash at some point when people get fed up of not having true ownership of anything they've purchased. Losing access because you lose connection, or if the platform shuts down is a real problem.
Either way I agree in part that the industry is on life support, and it's just spec selling to spec.
The watch industry managed to carry on after digital watches came out. Yet, you don't even need a watch for the time at all nowadays. It's become a niche market and the product is treated like a commodity.
@@demwunz I'm not arguing the "niche" market. Going back to 8 tracks and cassettes... There is a 'niche' market for those that love all things vintage. I'm speaking of the primary market only. You have a point with the bandaid analogy, but who is to say that something is a "problem?" Maybe it's just how it is. Again, even if you cut titles and shrink print runs, and put more money into the writers to tell "better" stories, I am absolutely confident that it will not bring in the revenue that variant "gimmicks" bring in. Any commodity is a gimmick. Fast food is a gimmick. Starbucks is a gimmick. Sports is a gimmick. Every product made is pushed to feed into our emotions in order for us to believe that we NEED it in our lives. And the fact of the matter is, is that comic book collectors LOVE gimmicks. To me, as a businessman, I don't see that as a problem, I see that as an opportunity to fulfill a need that will result in profits.
Between stuff like Marvel Snap, Champions the card game, and now Rivals, someone at Marvel is really understanding how to proliferate their IP and build fans. Not every fan needs to participate in every form of media, but it all feeds together in the end. Comic story publishing can live on digitally if it needs to for a long time. I'm even OK with that as a reader. I'll still collect and display classic floppies.
Love this comment!
Comic Books, like vinyl, will make a comeback I believe. It won't happen for about five to ten years. We are heading for a trade war and deep recession. Not a great time to sell. In the meantime, buy those key books for cheap. A down market = opportunity
The ones who find vinyl nostalgic that have allowed it to be a niche market are the same age group as the main comic collectors. That nostalgia - for the most part - dies with them. There is no nostalgia in new comics.
2024 is already over. What comic book where published this year that can be considered genuine classics ?
Well said Chris. Todays generation is brought up in a strictly digital world of reality and commerce. Videos games are now digital... artwork, comics, books, music, almost everything tangible and collectible is being replaced. Even currency itself. Thats because it's cheaper and more profitable to create and mass distribute items that are created using digital 1s and 0s than the actual tangible items themselves in which you have to purchase materials and invest a portion of your own funds into creating them that reduce the amount of profit you can make as well as limiting mass production. We have been transitioning into a digital era where people of the new generation see the older generations and their ways as dead and obsolete and invest in these older items in their own eras way (digitally speaking) which creates more freed-up space in their physical environment. But here's the thing most people miss. Not if, but when, the time comes when we climb to the height beyond the economical equilibrium meant to maintain stability and order (or when we face a cyber threat from a foreign enemy or universal AI system beyond our ability to control that becomes too dangerous to keep it going ) and this evolving and expanding digital bubble pops or gets shut down, it will be those few who held on to their tangible when everyone gave up on theirs who will be left holding all the riches in the end because they will be even more rarer than ever before.
3 stages to this pump and dump digital world order:
1. Get everyone invested where they phase everything else out
2. Make it so that everything else is seen as worthless so that people will rid themselves of these things, while only a few in the know secretly hold on to them.
3. When everyone is following the digital system and way of reality and have shed the old ways....Crash the system, so that that only the few who secretly held onto their tangible will be the ones that will be standing on top.
This is how most economical systems of manipulation work today by the few who set and govern the way.
All things opperate through opposing polarities of expansion and contraction to keep order, stability and maintain equilibrium. The people who lead and pave the economicical way know this. And I believe the expanding digital bubble (if it evolves to quickly with too much force) will eventually pop from a multitude of reasons. But if done correctly, it will play out more along these lines: 1. Everyone slowly begins to transition over, and kids are raised in a new digital world of acceptance. 2. Those who have tangibles of value will begin shedding themselves of them from seeing the new coming digital shift and trend (lessing the amount of them) 3. Eventually almost everyone will have shifted over and gotten rid of their tangible investments in trying to stay current with economical trends 4. Once everyone has shifted over, a shift will then occur where the digital reality will pop from some type of danger. The very few who foresaw this catastrophic event and saved their items (even when they were viewed as worthless) will now have items beyond rare that will be sought after again. But in order to make these items valuable and in high demand, you first have to make them extremly rare by causing the whole world to give up on them and shed themselves of them to lessen the supply. Once the supply has been stripped down vastly that's when you create a global demand through catastrophe (wether designed by man or natural occuring).
A lot of great points and things to ponder in all of these comments! Thank you for sharing!
Comic Books have been dying since 1938. I have seen no indication of anything looking likw the 50's and 90's. You young kids dont know shit.
😂 I’m not a kid, nor am I young. I’ve been collecting for almost 40 years and never plan on stopping. But you clearly have your blinders on. I get it. It’s sad to acknowledge the truth
@@JernosComicsPopCulture No Blinders. CGC has brought in the speculators but they are not 90'a Speculators. A Leveling has occured and great to see people lose this imaginary money they thought they had.
@@JoeCasnaw-xe1pz Honestly now you're point isn't making much sense to me.
I guess its a mindset saying Marvel and DC Suck right now. Saying the comic market is dying. Its not dying it desperately needs to evolve. This can not and will not be all money. Most Comis You Tube are speculators. I respect you a little moe because you do feel like a real collector
Ice tea is not even close to the talent that LL is. He can’t rap, he can’t act and he has very little class. How he became a tv regular is a mystery, who tunes in to see him?
Okay lol
“No Lives Matter” is the metal-est metal song of the past couple decades, no small achievement in my book.
The game is a digital fix. The floppy comics would include them reading, which they'll say is boring. Gen Z and Alpha are video screen attached almost from birth.
Comic books as a medium will always exist. As a print industry, nah. It's been dead for years. It's been hanging on for years & it's never evolved or changed. Comics in USA needs to take cues from manga in Japan, where the medium has never been more relevant to their culture
Yes!
Disney Comics doesn't know how to transfer games interest to comic sales, did the Marvel Cinematic Universe had to more sales of floppies? Nope. Heck you would think they would take advantage of all the interest in Marvel Vs Capcom collection. Nope, keep sinking the ship Disney.
This goes beyond DIsney, although you have a point. Again, it speaks to the larger issue of how we consume reading material.
I've believed this for awhile. Going the way of stamps, 8-track, etc.
kids playing Rivals..... are not the ones buying spec books.
to prove my point. go check out a school library. yup no books. kids today are NOT into paper or physical media. theyd rather buy skins for the game than a comic.
I'm glad you posted this, cant wait too digest it after hours. Love ya Jerno
That’s for being a good sport. Let’s definitely continue the discussion. I know it’s tough to be perfectly clear with everything, but I hope I added enough context.
New comics minus a few exceptions will be worth less than the comics printed the last 15-20 years. It's pretty much the same thing as you mentioned before. It is sadly a future that we can not avoid. On the plus side those of us will have an opportunity to get floppies very cheap. I put a lot of blame on the writing. I think it might be time to let some characters age out to make room for newer ideas.
Even with the dying format of the floppy comic, you're right. So much stale writing and no real new ideas hurt it as well.
@JernosComicsPopCulture I've considered taking a title and picking it up at a spot in continuity and write and draw it how I felt it should have been. If you haven't seen/read John Byrnes xmen elsewhen you should as his pencils are reminiscent of his early xmen days. It's inspiring.
So true JERNO
At the risk of sounding like a broken record....Jerno....bear with me here.....but I've said this probably several times here on your channel over the last couple of years, but yeah....who are we middle aged collectors going to sell (or even dump) our collections onto when we're done with them in 20 or 30 years from now? Our kids won't have space in their shrinking homes (if they can even afford a home given the rise in house values) for dad's dusty collection of 20 long boxes, 15 short boxes and a bunch of other random collectibles like action figures, statues, prints, funkos and whatever else we Gen-Xers and older Millennials think we're going to retire rich on. Kids aren't as interested in comics as we are. I offer my kids comics when I'm at the shop, and they *might* take me up on the offer. They *might* read what I buy them. But usually they give the comic back and ask me to "keep it safe for them".
I stand by my point that I've been making for years now - unless something drastic happens, our supply of slabs and long boxes of comics are going to far exceed the demand for them. I wish that weren't true - not because I want the value to steadily climb, but because technology is slowly but surely making reading and physical media a thing of the past.
I don't know where all this leads. I will continue to buy the books I want to read and enjoy. I will "invest" in keys that bring me joy. When it's time to let them go, I'll cross that bridge. But I don't think you're wrong. Maybe you and I skew a little more toward "pessimist" rather than what we think is "realist" but I'd rather hope for the best and plan for the worst....that's why I try not to let my collection get overly large. I don't want to be 70 years old and having to do all the legwork in finding a home for my collection.
Cheers dude. I hope you're feeling better. Fluids and rest. Rinse and repeat. Tis the season.
Perfectly said, Kyle. The irony about me addressing these things is that we do a lot more damage to the hobby when we ignore them, because we don’t see how we are becoming a detriment to our own hobby that we love. If we accepted reality, and let go of our pride and ego, we can actually start making conscious shifts to maybe shift the direction, even is just a little bit.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture You probably see yourself as a steward of the hobby. I my own way, I do as well, although I no longer have a platform for myself other than the comment section. I think slowly but surely, people are starting to see that their overgrown collections may not translate to the stacks of cash they expected them to be in 20-30 years from now. But for every person who wakes up to that potential scenario there are probably a handful of others who dig in, afraid to admit that the time and money spent on expensive paper may have been for naught (despite the common knowledge that comics aren't a great investment to begin with).
The question I keep asking myself is "now what?". If we determine that comics are on life support, and feel like our collections will only decrease in value over time (excluding golden age books and silver age grails), what do we do? The best time to sell them was yesterday. Or last year. The next best time is tomorrow. But most of us, myself included, aren't ready to let go of what may be a big anchor for someone to deal with down the line. Scary thoughts!
@@kyleroussel Very great thoughts to ponder, for sure.
I totally agree with you. I only buy what I like in the future my grandkids wanna keep it fine but I never looking to make money out out of it. I do have a couple of. Comics that I know I’m gonna make money to to go on vacation
I would argue the multiple variants for each book is hurting collecting, not helping. Should just be 1 or 2 variants for key books and leave filler issues alone. Also people in the 50s thought comics wouldn't last either, they burned them and threw them out but comics evolved..it can do it again
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You posed strong opinions, but did not provide any examples. I would love to know why you feel multiple variants are "hurting" collecting. Let me add a few positives to what multiple variants do:
1. Employ artists. 2. Bring in revenue to the publishers AND comic shops which keeps people interested in floppy comics and the hobby as a whole. 3. Variant sales have been well over the majority of direct sales for a couple years now, so likely, without them, those titles that you love and enjoy would probably stop being printed.
As for peope in the 50s thinking comics wouldn't last, completely different scenarios and factors. Even if interset in comics was still thriving (which it isn't), technological advancements and how we consume different mediums will be the death of the floppy comic. It truly is "inevitable."
@JernosComicsPopCulture @JernosComicsPopCulture all valid points but multiple variants are flooding the shelves of comic stores, often going unsold also and put into storage. I mean is someone out there collecting all 106 variants of Batman 50. Please calm down with the variants, i like them too and i buy them but i dont need so fricken many..its too many. 5 or so for big keys, keep your artists employed. This could free up some of the artists time so that more comic shops could hire these people to do their store exclusives for filler issues or w/e
@@adamleitman8116 Okay I like where your heart is at for this, but you're still leading with emotion rather than logic. First, it doesn't matter if a large majority of those comics don't sell once in the LCS. Why? Because the LCS is buying them from the publishers. And THAT is all tha matters when it comes to keeping the presses running.
I like your idea about having artists free'd up and focusing on exclusives, but that's a pipe dream. The LCS is dying, more and more closing their doors every month, and you think the remaining shops can pump out literally hundreds upon hundreds of pieces each week? No. They simply can't. Variants are keeping artists employed and getting work from the publishers is the only real viable consistant work that is sustainable.
Ultimately, I don't like variants either. But it doesn't impact me and how I collect at all. Again, it actually keeps the press running for those cover A's that I have mail subscriptins of.
I understand where you are coming from in terms of the sentiment and emotion behind your thoughts, but I'm not hearing any facts/data or real argument here to invalidate my points. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's reality, and it's just time that we all face it. Once we actually admit the facts, THEN maybe we can come to the table to put together REAL solutions to REAL problems.
@JernosComicsPopCulture pretty sure ill be good and dead before comics are. Ive got 2 or 3 shops in my city that have been open since the 70s. They survived the 90s and all the ups and downs since. We need more of a social media presence. More people like Comic Tom, or Todd McFarlane or Kevin Eastman's breathing excitement into the collecting again
@@adamleitman8116 I think you're now mistaking what I'm saying. Now it seems as if you think I'm saying comics will be dead as in they will just cease to exist as a whole. No. The primary market of floppy comics is dying and will no longer exist in a couple decades. Meaning, no more new floppy comics coming out every week. I'm not talking about there being no market for comics as a collectible, even though that market is getting smaller and smaller as well.
As for those shops that survived the 90s, they are becoming more and more extinct. And if you're around my age or older, then you are right. As soon as those who are 35-65 are dead and gone, it's scary to think what even comics as a collectibles market will look like, when the main consumer no longer exists.
You know how realtors are biased on the housing market going down. The same way swagglehaus is about comics.
Eghhh we both really agree though. I just think he didn’t go in depth to the level I did.
I think floppy comics will stay alive but in the same way vinyl records have where there is a market for new ones but it is not mainstream. People will always like something that they can physically hold in their hands but Marvel and DC have lost the plot at this point. The stories are mostly just bad and have been for a long time now.
I agree with you for our generation, because it’s our generation that keeps the niche market of vinyl alive. We are the last generation that cares about physical things to hold.
If it wasn’t for people digging out their old collections during Covid and then people seeing dollar signs in their eyes (which was helped along by opportunistic TH-camr “influencers”, comics would probably be dead already
I wouldn’t completely agree, but there is some truth to this.
Getting kids back into comics is a bit of a stretch but is it good for the hobby…yeah I think it is
I do agree. Anything that brings in money and attention is good. But it still is what it is.
Comic books are just too expensive nowadays. Go back to newsprint.
The flipper homies for sure lol 😆
Ain’t no mystery!
@ that and fomo 100 💯 some will never learn
To me the solution seems obvious - DC and Marvel need to sell more floppies at a cheaper price - so go back to newsprint or cheaper paper, put ads in comics, and put comics everywhere - grocery stores, drug stores, gas stations, etc. - get them in the hands of kids - get them in the hands of parents who can pick up a couple at the grocery store to give their kids as entertainment. Make the stories kid friendly and young adult and make the stories solid and the art solid - and stop with the political stuff and the woke nonsense. Comics have to be QUALITY entertainment for kids and young people and cheap. I could be wrong but I assume that selling more copies of something at a cheaper price can still yield a decent profit. But comics are too damn expensive. You can but killer games on sale for $5 $10 and $20 by comparison and get entertainment that lasts for hour and hours.
I've believed this for awhile. Comics have a limited shelf-life. Everywhere I go, the overwhelming majority buying comics are 40-60 yrd old men. It's going the way of stamps, 8-tracks, etc.
Obviously its stochastic: A few comics here and there will generate interest, but the overall trend is clear.
Facts... just the facts my friend. 💯
I still have New Agents of Atlas in my PC. Fun read. Cool characters. I feel like speculation killed it. Marvel should have done more with those characters in the form of comic books. This is not what I imagined for New Agents of Atlas's "return." If Marvel really wanted to capitalize, why did they only create five Netease Marvel Rivals covers? Luna Snow isn't even one of the covers. If they wanted to bring in younger readers from this Marvel Rivals interest and hype, they should have made more covers. There are over 30 characters.
Yeah the covers aren't even to market to the kids. They are all cover swipes and homages of comics that are nostalgic to middle aged collectors. Marvel knows what they are doing. It's not about the characters when it comes to the comics, its about bringing in the base they know is still spending money on floppy comics.
i got about 9 min in, I agree, but i think its cost. two comics is a month on Netflix. other entertainment is cheaper for greater entertainment (time).
Cost is a big problem, but also, a Dogman or Manga costs more than a floppy, and they are leading the way. Even with the younger generation. Why? Because the floppy comic is obsolete.
Respectfully don’t agree but I’m subscribing and listening. I was surrounded growing up by people not in the hobby, so I continue to think there is an existing niche group of all ages reading, but I can admit I could be wrong. I’ll keep seeking the truth. Thanks for your reasonable argument. Be seeing you.
Thanks for the sub and for sharing your thoughts! I will ask, how old are you? Also, I'm clearly not denying the "niche" market. But like I said, there is still a 'niche' market for 8 tracks, cassette tapes, etc. But are those still produced as a new way to consume music? Nope. Just like floppy comics won't be the new way to consume comic art and stories. Much of the "niche" market is so heavily based in nostalgia, and once my generation goes, so does that nostalgia.
I'm an educator, and I see kids reading everyday. But they don't read floppy comics. They read comic-style trades and graphic novels. Out of my 6 years as an educator at the elementary level (teaching English and working with multiple grades from 1st-6th), I've seen one floppy comic in the hands of a kid and he said his dad gave it to him (it was a Marvel Tales from the early 80s).
Kids that are into Miles morales don't buy his comics. They wear his clothes, play his video game, watch his animated films, and read the graphic novel type books that you see in the book fairs. We are evolving beyond the was of the past, in many, many ways.
Comics are fire, LOL but good post... This has been one of the best years on record... Winning... Love ya brother... One day we need to do a one on one...
Is the the same Jesse James that is on Bryan's show? If so, we probably agree on so much. Many people are missing the point of what I'm doing and saying here, to say the least.
I read your comment but I don't see it anymore. About back issues: I'm not talking about back issues at all. My ENTIRE argument has NOTHING to do with back issues (outside of who is buying these spec books). When I say the floppy comic is on life support, I'm specifically talking about the primary market floppy comic.
Thank you for this bro all the cons and shops I go
To its middle age
Men and older guys buying the comics not kids they barely even pick up a comic it’s all about video games 😂 it’s the next fomo thing just like the what not packs now no
One wants them now it’s just the hot thing for the moment then the next thing drops it’s a cycle lol
I am sick of hearing about you spouting nonsense with Marvel Rivals. You are wrong with everything you say. The game is bigger then the MCU period end of story. Its not a flash in the pan,. its an overwatch killer and Overwatch has been around for 8 years. And now I am going to have to record a response to you. Youngfer kids have more interest in gaming then almost anything else, it will bring more younger readers to comics, and to not think that shows you are out of touch and out of time.
Clearly, you missed the point I was making. The game is huge. But that has nothing to do with comic books and comic sales. Lastly, go ahead and make a response. I know enough about who you are to know that you’re only here on TH-cam to stir up drama. But I graduated high school many years ago. So do you, my guy. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts.
@@JernosComicsPopCulture incorrect, it is painfully clear to me you have little understanding this game has, its bigger then the entire MCU. Also I am not "your guy" I am the guy. Just wait sir, I cut a video just to educate you and educate you I shall
lol you gradutateed from High School? Are you sure, you look like a thug about to rob me on the street
@NYOBICOMICS 😘
@@JernosComicsPopCulture yes, thats my ass you are kissing
Depends which comic
I’m speaking on the primary market floppy
Oh & im going digital
Reflections and Realizations with Jerno. 👍🏻✌🏼🙏🏼
I agree. I got into superheroes because of TV shows and the MCU. The fact that some people believe the younger generation is buying those books is wild. Teenagers are not the ones spending CGC 9.8 type money. Once the older generation has gone, I can see comics dropping in price significantly. I could see a lot of books entering the market in the next 15-20 years. Comics will be passed down to their grandkids, and they will sell them for cheap. Not everyone will, but a handful. I don’t see anyone born in 2030 or 2040 interested in paper books when they were never exposed to them for entertainment. They’ll see comic books as just a book collection belonging to their grandpa. I am at the age where I was exposed to DVDs and physical textbooks and video games but now as a 19 year old all my friends and I purchase our video games digitally, and our college homework and textbook are all online. Also it’s funny but most people my age are definitely not looking to flip comic books and make profit off of FOMO. That’s busy work( a job) I only see someone who is truly into comics or business flipping comics. That’s one of the reasons why I call myself a part-time collector, because Comics don’t consume my every thought. And I have other interest that bring me joy. Watching movies and playing video games and collecting comics is just a side hobby
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and perspective!
couple of decades i disagree sooner maybe 9/10 years
Comes in cycles.. you could have said the same thing when the nes came out..everything comes in cycles...im still waiting for pet rocks or its equivalent to come back..
I don't think that's the best analogy, honestly. For artform in that context is video games. Yes, the NES is now outdated, but video games evolved. Just like the comic art/story. Comic book art and stories are not dying, the floppy is. Comics are evolving beyond the floppy.
@JernosComicsPopCulture and ...shit gets stale.. you and I played with nes.. gi joe.. transformers.. but ya just grow out of it.. usually.. then later that nostalgia hits..and this has been true since before our time and will be no different in 50.. 100 years. What I'm saying is.. hold on to all those junk funco pops till the this generation gets to be mid 30s...