Yeah, @@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ I'm gonna list all of the states with a gun fatality rate of 15/100k per year, tell me what you notice... Virginia Michigan Texas Ohio South Dakota West Virginia North Dakota North Carolina Kansas Idaho Colorado Indiana Kentucky Nevada Georgia Oklahoma Over 20/100k gun deaths per year Arizona Wyoming Tennessee South Carolina Arkansas Alaska Montana Missouri Alabama New Mexico Louisiana Mississippi
As a guy who enjoys shooting, it makes sense that you'd have problems with a gun mouse. First, because of the way a trigger is pulled by a finger it tends to torque in one direction, you have to train on how to properly pull the trigger to avoid this. Second, where and how you use a gun is fundamentally different from a mouse (I don't shoot my handgun from ribcage level and off to my side.) My opinion is that gun controls only make sense in a motion control/VR setting.
@@geminidefect It still doesn't change the fact that using a gun and a mouse are ergonomically divorced. When I'm using a mouse it translates X and Z axis movement into X and Y axis movement. Additionally shooting a gun involves your head, neck, back, fingers, wrists, waist and legs, plus a whole bunch of weird stuff going on with your eyes. Just way too much going on for a mouse to deal with with even a fraction of realism.
@@jonas000111 It already is on home systems! PS5 has PSVR which is one of the best vr experiences I've had, The Meta Quest 2 is it's own standalone vr headset that needs no computer or console, it's a console in of itself. The newer models quest 3 and quest 3 S are some of the best standalone headsets on the (western) market today.
The lack of accuracy probably comes from the fact that with a regular mouse you use your wrist and arm for large movements but your fingers and fingertips for smaller precise movements, where you kind of shift mouse around in the palm of your hand with your fingertips . With the grip for the gun mouse all you have realistically is the larger movements with your wrist and arm, and the grip seems like it leaves little play in the palm of your hand for movement anyway. Think using your mouse without ever flexing or moving your fingers... which means there's not really a way to fix it without completley rethinking the concept
Hear me out... Joystick style mouse with a sensor on the bottom. This would allow for small movements with the wrist, while allowing for large movements with the arm. Would it be comfortable to use? Probably not. Would it function better than this mouse? Probably with a little practice, since the sensor would always sit flush with the desk.
@@miner1546 sensor is already better as dawid mentioned , he searched around to see people saying it competes with hero sensors on logitech mice, the problems are in other areas, such as the sleep issue, or the rigidity with the hand rest I would like to see dawid super glue the hand rest to see if it improves the feel
Yeah I was thinking of glueing that wrist stand in place would make it feel more stable. It looks like a total afterthought and needs to be held securely.
It looks like you would only lose the dongle storage ability. I would definitely glue and brace it in place. But before that, and most importantly, I would not even buy it 😅
@@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ imo it seems like a great option for people with RSI or wrist pain issues, but yea for gaming it’s a bad mouse, i wonder how does it feel with longer use, whether it improves the comfort versus the logitech vertical mice, or makes it worse
Way back in highschool, I helped a classmate make a joystick mouse (took a cheap joystick and gravted a ball-mouse into it) after another explained that they really wanted one with a fully vertical grip. I hated it, but did notice that everyone who thought it had potential tended to rock it up on one edge, causing the grip to lever into their palm when their 'neutral' grip angle brought the thing back onto the workbench. Which is something the saddle w/ optical sensor your example prevents from happening. I suggested the {Barbie -[princess(?)] computer pen- a chonky stylus, and a paddle/pendant emulating additional mouse-wheel and buttons} - based on the setup of some adults whose hands were too big to comfortably use a typical mouse. Didn't get any feedback on that.
What this needs is a wired version(to fix the auto-sleep) with a weighted immobile stand(to fix stability), and some rehoming springs like a flight stick. _I like the concept, it's just not quite there. May even print a mockup with said improvements._
From an adaptive perspective I think the design has potential. I can't use a regular mouse or even a sideways mouse and have to use a trackpad. Something like this I could grip and use for FPS games. The design needs work, but if it has a potential to be a great too for handicap gamers.
My list of wants for a vertical mouse: 1) Infinite scroll 2) Twisting wrist also moves pointer left right (fine movements to deal with the fact that your arm moves in an arc naturally) 3) At least two thumb buttons
They have a new version up for pre-order on their website called the ErgoStrike 7; it has an integrated grip, additional buttons, and a different look. I wonder if it will be an improvement at all.
A friend of mine bought this for me for Christmas in 2023. The keyboard switch works surprisingly well, but I wish that the wrist rest was implemented better. Maybe I'll see if I can get a friend to 3D print me a custom base (possibly at a slight angle), but it's not a big deal since it's more of a fun novelty item than a practical one. Also, the one that I got is more of a matte black, as opposed to the shiny black that you got. It looks less jarring.
For any mouse designers who are reading through comments for ideas... If that ever happens. Here's some feedback: Add an option to disable auto sleep feature, it's annoying to some and not needed for gaming at all. Use a better sensor, this one is bad. Above all else, please add a base that has at least 5 degrees of swivel in each direction to allow for wrist movement. The wrist will still rest on the mouse, so moving it will not be an issue. Overall great idea, but honestly a joystick with a sensor on the bottom would be better in my mind.
I think this kind of design is actually worth investing in... I mean if I had a 3D printer, I would definately put some time into designing a good one with good material and use it... cuz as you said, it does feel very natural in hand and the narrow body makes it easier to grab. but the main issue here is the build quality... so one with a good build quality and sensor, would change your mind I think :)
In my experience, vertical mice are just awkward to use, make you move your whole arm too much and in the end just hurt different muscles or the same muscles in different ways. You can also use a standard mouse without moving your wrist and get all the 'benefits' of vertical mice without having to get one.
Better build quality and a sensor to track twist (make it pan left and right), you might have a decent input device. Let's see if Dawid thinks the same.
Have you checked the USB power saving thingies for that thingie? And! Use some super glue to that base thingie, so it's a more sturdier base thingie for that mouse thingie. AND! If that was an air mouse, it would be more weird, but perhaps usable, with VR, or without. 😂 Great video! Enjoyed it!
Been using this mouse for about a year and a half and yeah the scroll wheel is totally useless. The auto wake is when you left/right click or if you use it wired it never sleeps. There is a new one coming out soon called the Ergostrike 7 that would be fun to watch you check out. Great video as always!
i wonder if 3d printing a new base that wraps all the way around the mouse would help with stability, now given the connectivity issues and other weirdness probably doesnt make it worth the time, but thats where my brain went lol
when i saw the thumbnail, i could swear it would be a mouse that controls the cursor from a gyroscope based on the rotation of it as you held it midair.
Always a good mourning when i wake up, and see a Dawid Video!! P.S yout hair is getting really long, looks good. Hope u dont plan on cutting it anytime soon?
years ago there was a pistol like mouse and it had the same problems... in theory it seemed like a new panacea until you try to use might be a cool virtual reality kit
This isn't something I'd want. I like guns, I like games. But trying to bring the two together like this would be weird to me. I'm an avid firearm enthusiast and have spent a small fortune on firearms and ammo. But trying to bring that grip to a game would just throw me off. I'd want to point it and aim with a grip like that.
Friend the MX vertical is considered a gaming mouse with good DPI settings. Theres no reason to use another til they make another. It just requires you to use the *other* logitech accessories app to use the nice settings.
I used to have a cheap mouse that wouldn't auto wake when you move it, but you don't have to turn it on and off you just need to press left or right trigger typically that should wake it up.
I will say no - this WAS done before - my cousin has old vertical mouse like that from mid 2000s and it was as crap as this is. It's a bad design and shouldn't be used because pistol grip makes gun a continuation of your arm, which basically mean, you need to move it in 6 axis, not in 2.
If you're open to cheapo recommendations, Zelotes, Delux, and probably some other semi-respectable Chinese brands make vertical mice with gaming-appropriate sensors. Haven't tried them, though!
I think I would hate that mouse. Not because it's vertical, but because you're moving your hand and arm around to move the mouse. Maybe I'm an outlier, I don't really know, but I do something like 95% of all my mouse movements just by moving the mouse with my thumb and pinkie.
I have one of these and I think it's a pretty neat idea executed poorly. That said there's a new version releasing in february that looks kinda promising, the wrist rest is part of the shell and it looks a lot less intrusive. You should have tried it in some tracking heavy games/aim scenarios though, bec that's where it actually felt somewhat decent to use ime.
Hey man, it is not a first one. Lenovo Go handheld has detachable controllers and one of it is exactly this. Also similarly bad to this one. It could be great in a few versions.
he used this mouse for 10h?? and he used a mouse for how many hours, about 1000h a year? so 30 000h of practice vs 10 hours of practice? It is like those medieval youtubers that try something for two weeks and then goes "nope, it is not possible they did that".....when those who did practiced 6h a day for 10 years lol
"I like a good vibrator"
-Dawid does tech stuff
"Vibrator ON/OFF" best thing i've seen on a mouse😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
rabbits agree
So, today we learned
Holding the gun sideways, gangster style, is more accurate
Hahaha yup
Other channels: New GPU review
Dawid: Some thing from AliExpress
Never change bro.
It's his niche. So many channels are trying to be the next GamersNexus, Dawid just does dumb shit and gets paid for it. 🤣
@@isturmawhy is gamers nexus the person people are aspiring to be? You mean LTT, since he was one of the OGs?
@@isturmahow is that bad?
100x better than Hardware Unboxed
@@raawesome3851 Ugh no. LTT is a dbag, proven time and again. Steve is humble, professional, willing to admit a mistake, and thorough as hell.
finally! a gaming mouse for the United States
If you mean for cities like Detroit, Philly, St. Louis, and New Orleans.. then yes. 😂
Yeah, @@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ I'm gonna list all of the states with a gun fatality rate of 15/100k per year, tell me what you notice...
Virginia
Michigan
Texas
Ohio
South Dakota
West Virginia
North Dakota
North Carolina
Kansas
Idaho
Colorado
Indiana
Kentucky
Nevada
Georgia
Oklahoma
Over 20/100k gun deaths per year
Arizona
Wyoming
Tennessee
South Carolina
Arkansas
Alaska
Montana
Missouri
Alabama
New Mexico
Louisiana
Mississippi
@@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ no entirety of USA
@@cluckern9614now how many of those are suicides? Come on, don’t be disingenuous.
@Felale how does suicide by gun not count as a gun fatality?
As a guy who enjoys shooting, it makes sense that you'd have problems with a gun mouse. First, because of the way a trigger is pulled by a finger it tends to torque in one direction, you have to train on how to properly pull the trigger to avoid this. Second, where and how you use a gun is fundamentally different from a mouse (I don't shoot my handgun from ribcage level and off to my side.) My opinion is that gun controls only make sense in a motion control/VR setting.
using feet on a tilt pad for character movement might solve the aim problem
@@geminidefect It still doesn't change the fact that using a gun and a mouse are ergonomically divorced. When I'm using a mouse it translates X and Z axis movement into X and Y axis movement. Additionally shooting a gun involves your head, neck, back, fingers, wrists, waist and legs, plus a whole bunch of weird stuff going on with your eyes. Just way too much going on for a mouse to deal with with even a fraction of realism.
Agreed on the VR part of it. I've played VR shooting gallery games at an arcade. The tech is coming along and will be on home systems soon.
Got it, this mouse is for Cowboys only, used to drawing and firing from the hip lol
@@jonas000111 It already is on home systems! PS5 has PSVR which is one of the best vr experiences I've had, The Meta Quest 2 is it's own standalone vr headset that needs no computer or console, it's a console in of itself. The newer models quest 3 and quest 3 S are some of the best standalone headsets on the (western) market today.
The lack of accuracy probably comes from the fact that with a regular mouse you use your wrist and arm for large movements but your fingers and fingertips for smaller precise movements, where you kind of shift mouse around in the palm of your hand with your fingertips . With the grip for the gun mouse all you have realistically is the larger movements with your wrist and arm, and the grip seems like it leaves little play in the palm of your hand for movement anyway. Think using your mouse without ever flexing or moving your fingers... which means there's not really a way to fix it without completley rethinking the concept
Hear me out... Joystick style mouse with a sensor on the bottom. This would allow for small movements with the wrist, while allowing for large movements with the arm.
Would it be comfortable to use? Probably not. Would it function better than this mouse? Probably with a little practice, since the sensor would always sit flush with the desk.
“If has a vibrator-which widens the demographics” lmaoooo
All I ever have wanted is a gaming version of the MX Vertical. That’s ALL IM ASKING FOR!!!1!!
Same goes for Dawid. Have you seen his video where he tried to make one?
My Legion Go also has this. Have never wanted to use it for the same reasons as Dawid.
Only YOUR legion go or legion gos in general?
@notyourbusiness4169 they all have it.
@notyourbusiness4169 legion GOs in general, sensor isn't great and it's a bit of a gimmick (as a legion go owner)
When I saw the thumbnail, I hoped this was part of the ongoing vertical gaming mouse saga. It's nice to know I was right. 😄
I like the idea, further improvements can be made.
Definitely
Yea like you can just make the sensor better
@@miner1546 sensor is already better as dawid mentioned , he searched around to see people saying it competes with hero sensors on logitech mice, the problems are in other areas, such as the sleep issue, or the rigidity with the hand rest
I would like to see dawid super glue the hand rest to see if it improves the feel
This IS the improvement. This mouse has been out for years.
Why not glue the wrist rest in place?
Yeah I was thinking of glueing that wrist stand in place would make it feel more stable. It looks like a total afterthought and needs to be held securely.
It looks like you would only lose the dongle storage ability. I would definitely glue and brace it in place. But before that, and most importantly, I would not even buy it 😅
@@FellowshipOfTheAviatorZ imo it seems like a great option for people with RSI or wrist pain issues, but yea for gaming it’s a bad mouse, i wonder how does it feel with longer use, whether it improves the comfort versus the logitech vertical mice, or makes it worse
At your channel we've seen a lot of "So Stupid It Works" , this is no news to us.
Way back in highschool, I helped a classmate make a joystick mouse (took a cheap joystick and gravted a ball-mouse into it) after another explained that they really wanted one with a fully vertical grip.
I hated it, but did notice that everyone who thought it had potential tended to rock it up on one edge, causing the grip to lever into their palm when their 'neutral' grip angle brought the thing back onto the workbench.
Which is something the saddle w/ optical sensor your example prevents from happening.
I suggested the {Barbie -[princess(?)] computer pen- a chonky stylus, and a paddle/pendant emulating additional mouse-wheel and buttons} - based on the setup of some adults whose hands were too big to comfortably use a typical mouse. Didn't get any feedback on that.
Would be neat to see a more reputable brand make a vertical or one similar to this one. Would be neat to see
"Are you winning daughter ?"
Those mice can be good for CAD. If you're using a standard mouse all day, it can put more strain on your wrist.
That’s what he’s talking about with vertical mice.
Back-end (giggity) development
So many of them
Eh very much
What this needs is a wired version(to fix the auto-sleep) with a weighted immobile stand(to fix stability), and some rehoming springs like a flight stick.
_I like the concept, it's just not quite there. May even print a mockup with said improvements._
I almost spat my coffee when I saw the blurry picture 0:18
6:29 🧐what do you mean by that
Cmon, no battery change via magazine with mag release button? Not interested(
Hahaha, that would be awesome! Especially if the batteries were in a little magazine
From an adaptive perspective I think the design has potential. I can't use a regular mouse or even a sideways mouse and have to use a trackpad. Something like this I could grip and use for FPS games. The design needs work, but if it has a potential to be a great too for handicap gamers.
Go Dawid!!! 😎 Kenneth told me about your channel. I'm happy for you and can't wait for you to hit a million 💪🏿
My list of wants for a vertical mouse:
1) Infinite scroll
2) Twisting wrist also moves pointer left right (fine movements to deal with the fact that your arm moves in an arc naturally)
3) At least two thumb buttons
I would actually like something like this. With my destroyed right arm I could see myself using something like this.
They have a new version up for pre-order on their website called the ErgoStrike 7; it has an integrated grip, additional buttons, and a different look. I wonder if it will be an improvement at all.
woah? Kaihl switches are great. but the blue one is a bit noisy, maybe they could replace it with brown
Your tarkov name is just impeccable, dawid. Love it
It looks like it should have dongle-berries.
no one ever done this before, legion go literally comes with a vertical mouse and support
1:12 nice music choice! I love Lupus Nocte :3
Wow that is meeee!
Yay im the guy.
A friend of mine bought this for me for Christmas in 2023. The keyboard switch works surprisingly well, but I wish that the wrist rest was implemented better. Maybe I'll see if I can get a friend to 3D print me a custom base (possibly at a slight angle), but it's not a big deal since it's more of a fun novelty item than a practical one.
Also, the one that I got is more of a matte black, as opposed to the shiny black that you got. It looks less jarring.
And before I forget, the mouse comes with software. I haven't delved too deeply into it, but maybe it has a toggle to disable the sleep mode.
For any mouse designers who are reading through comments for ideas... If that ever happens. Here's some feedback:
Add an option to disable auto sleep feature, it's annoying to some and not needed for gaming at all.
Use a better sensor, this one is bad.
Above all else, please add a base that has at least 5 degrees of swivel in each direction to allow for wrist movement. The wrist will still rest on the mouse, so moving it will not be an issue.
Overall great idea, but honestly a joystick with a sensor on the bottom would be better in my mind.
“Storm Troopers are going wild over this new mouse design!”
New camera angles are looking great man :)
Hey dawid, try super gluing the hand rest to the mouse to see if that improves the loose hand rest issue
@3:45 hey, my dongle size is none of your concern!
I think this kind of design is actually worth investing in... I mean if I had a 3D printer, I would definately put some time into designing a good one with good material and use it... cuz as you said, it does feel very natural in hand and the narrow body makes it easier to grab. but the main issue here is the build quality... so one with a good build quality and sensor, would change your mind I think :)
Certainly helps with the old bone breaking as you get older.
While the implementation is terrible for the reasons listed in this video, I wonder if a 'good crack' at the pistol grip style mouse would be better.
In my experience, vertical mice are just awkward to use, make you move your whole arm too much and in the end just hurt different muscles or the same muscles in different ways. You can also use a standard mouse without moving your wrist and get all the 'benefits' of vertical mice without having to get one.
this thing is just like my last relationship. from sheer excitement to pure loathing. at least Davvid didn't waste 6 years trying to make it work...
Ouch. Sorry to hear about that.
6:30 that can be out of context very quickly
Better build quality and a sensor to track twist (make it pan left and right), you might have a decent input device. Let's see if Dawid thinks the same.
Have you checked the USB power saving thingies for that thingie? And! Use some super glue to that base thingie, so it's a more sturdier base thingie for that mouse thingie. AND! If that was an air mouse, it would be more weird, but perhaps usable, with VR, or without. 😂
Great video! Enjoyed it!
Been using this mouse for about a year and a half and yeah the scroll wheel is totally useless. The auto wake is when you left/right click or if you use it wired it never sleeps. There is a new one coming out soon called the Ergostrike 7 that would be fun to watch you check out. Great video as always!
i wonder if 3d printing a new base that wraps all the way around the mouse would help with stability, now given the connectivity issues and other weirdness probably doesnt make it worth the time, but thats where my brain went lol
when i saw the thumbnail, i could swear it would be a mouse that controls the cursor from a gyroscope based on the rotation of it as you held it midair.
So what Dawid wants is some sort of joystick mouse. Ideally one that vibrates.
the idea is good
they forgot tho, that to make quick movements with a gun, you move the whole arm around and not just the Wrist
People never heard of a Dualsense, Steam Input and gyro, it's the most accurate feels to holding a gun, because your aim sway with your hands.
I have been waiting for a *proper* vertical gaming mouse for literal years.
Seems to be a more natural position for your wrist. A more sturdy premium version may work for some
Always a good mourning when i wake up, and see a Dawid Video!! P.S yout hair is getting really long, looks good. Hope u dont plan on cutting it anytime soon?
Test the Razer Hydra (if you need config files I'll provide them), or test a Joycon with gyro enable on Steam.
I'd like to see a higher quality version of this.
Superglue the wrist thingy on xD
That buttpad should be solid part of the mouse.
The hair on the mouse mat was giving me palpitations
years ago there was a pistol like mouse and it had the same problems... in theory it seemed like a new panacea until you try to use
might be a cool virtual reality kit
The gun mouse would be better made into a motion controller for VR, using it as a mouse the mobility isn't there.
Ragnok, more like Ragknock around the internals because they sound detached from the inner case.
Thought it was the monitor stand
I think I'd superglue the wrist rest / bottom part into position and then forget about it!
I hope to someday be the "some guy on reddit" referred to in a video.
Glue it to the top of your normal mouse, and wire the bottom sensor to the gun mouse!
This isn't something I'd want. I like guns, I like games. But trying to bring the two together like this would be weird to me. I'm an avid firearm enthusiast and have spent a small fortune on firearms and ammo. But trying to bring that grip to a game would just throw me off. I'd want to point it and aim with a grip like that.
Friend the MX vertical is considered a gaming mouse with good DPI settings. Theres no reason to use another til they make another. It just requires you to use the *other* logitech accessories app to use the nice settings.
I can say from personal experience, the latency is noticeable.
I used to have a cheap mouse that wouldn't auto wake when you move it, but you don't have to turn it on and off you just need to press left or right trigger typically that should wake it up.
ive seen this thing in ads, its super weird but i like weird tech stuff and a mouse with haptics is interesting
You should make a video modifying the mouse! Bigger battery, better base, better keyswitch, maybe print your own case for the internals to go into :0
Best sponsor segment I have ever seen!
It looks like it would be like trying to move a regular mouse around with the side of your hand, rather than your fingers.
I would be interested how the newer version they announced would perform
If it had a gyro sensor or similar for more realistic aiming, no desktop needed, it would feel a lot better, i imagine.
I think the grip style will come natural to us guys, if you catch my drift.
I REALLY want a vertical gaming mouse that also has the "fast/infinite" scroll wheel like the Logitech G502 Hero.
might be fun to gut this thing and put actual good mouse components in there.
Can you program all the keys including the trigger? I want to use it as a macro pad.
I will say no - this WAS done before - my cousin has old vertical mouse like that from mid 2000s and it was as crap as this is. It's a bad design and shouldn't be used because pistol grip makes gun a continuation of your arm, which basically mean, you need to move it in 6 axis, not in 2.
imagine a flight similator with this concept
If you're open to cheapo recommendations, Zelotes, Delux, and probably some other semi-respectable Chinese brands make vertical mice with gaming-appropriate sensors. Haven't tried them, though!
I think this mouse could be good with a few design adjustments
I wouldve liked to see the gunmouse compared to another vertical mouse.
The scroll wheel will or trigger should wake it? Thanks for reviewing so we don't have to!
deadass thought this was a switch 2 video
I think I would hate that mouse. Not because it's vertical, but because you're moving your hand and arm around to move the mouse.
Maybe I'm an outlier, I don't really know, but I do something like 95% of all my mouse movements just by moving the mouse with my thumb and pinkie.
IIRC, Ragnok is a goblin (king?) from "Harry Potter".
I like that corsair custom lab setup
Try getting that through airport security 😂
Finally, a new LGR Oddware video ❤
Bet this mouse sells well in the USA
I have one of these and I think it's a pretty neat idea executed poorly. That said there's a new version releasing in february that looks kinda promising, the wrist rest is part of the shell and it looks a lot less intrusive.
You should have tried it in some tracking heavy games/aim scenarios though, bec that's where it actually felt somewhat decent to use ime.
Hey man, it is not a first one. Lenovo Go handheld has detachable controllers and one of it is exactly this. Also similarly bad to this one. It could be great in a few versions.
3D printed case?
he used this mouse for 10h?? and he used a mouse for how many hours, about 1000h a year? so 30 000h of practice vs 10 hours of practice?
It is like those medieval youtubers that try something for two weeks and then goes "nope, it is not possible they did that".....when those who did practiced 6h a day for 10 years lol
Transfer the internals of a gaming mouse into the vertical one.