Love the content Bro, as a new player (kvk4) have been contemplating value of attack and commander combinations in regards to actual fighting/dancing. We all need to evaluate our own specific playing style and time online to determine which route we want to go. It's not one size fits all. War Eagle!
@ love the video. Could you explain how to go with LC scipio which talents and accesories ? Also if we apply same logic to Nevsky Joan, wouldnt it make sense to run Joan Nevsky since she gonna fire her aoe first and more often + more march speed on field. Reports should be better
@ with Nevsky/Joan the secondary commander gets the 35% extra skill damage increase and every other turn it procs twice. That changes the math a little.
About the attack stats, I had one player in my kd went for the attack stats with cavalry equipments for xy nevsky. It was around the time nevsky was released, there were no formation, no iconic tier 2+ back then. He had like 280% att, but low def and hp. It went terrible for him. he said even when xy nevsky wasn't targeted, that march still had to return home every 15s from aoe dmg. If they are targeted, it went down so fast that even xy still couldn't use active skill once. I think for a melee march a balance between dmg and tankiness is important, better than all in on attack or all in on def and hp.
Couldn’t agree more on the value of instant proc damage. The amount of value you get from that firing occasionally in those quick engagements where someone pulls back before an active skill cycle is insane when multiplied over an entire KvK.
I suspect the main reason running your bigger damage dealer first looks better in the reports manager is because you are not always going to stay connected for the extra 2 seconds it takes to get the second commander to fire their active skill. For me that is not enough reason to run it in what is shown to be the worse configuration when running controlled tests. Maximizing your field fighting efficiency takes more skill then a lot of people realize.
@@Busdriver3092 in a dualling sense that could be true, but in a ball fight not so much. Majority of the time the march you are hitting isn't targeting you in a big ball fight.
The big advantage for running AOE primary commanders when ball fighting is to avoid dropping rage and losing skills between targets. Targets get swarmed and die very quickly in ball fights. When your target dies, you will leave combat and reset your rage - unless you have dealt damage to or taken damage from a different march within 5 turns. With a single target primary commander like WW, you'll have situations where: you drag your marches back and forth between safety and enemy targets you build up enough rage to fire WW and your other primary commanders' skills your target gets blown up and dies WW gets kicked out of combat you lose LC's queued active skill With an AOE primary like LC, if you hit other enemies with your AOE skill, you'll remain in combat with those enemies for another 5 seconds even if your target dies. You can target a new enemy to fire your secondary's queued skill. Using an AOE primary almost guarantees that when you are able to build up enough rage to fire 1 skill, you will get 2 skills off.
@@MyMarius87 without testing….id lean towards yes but the question is if you can get a bigger upgrade deploying him over another commander of another troop type. So for example I run ZL/Boudica. Is Philip over Boudica a bigger upgrade over Alex?
@@Busdriver3092 for sure it is. Boudica is hated by the whole community and everyone that used her .:) . for me there's no other choice. its either alex out or no PHillip but im at 1300 sculptures before commander swap.
12:50 just a comment for your stats, as you only used Zhuge/Hermann at the end of Kvk, that is when generally the weaker and more casual players are out of ressources and speeds, so there are mostly whales on the field.
An easy and consistent way to check the value of attack vs other stats in the open field is war runes brother, no need to have a whale full send into attack gear. 7/7 attack defense rune > 10 heath rune
I agree for the most part though I disagree that some damage debuff buffs are better seocnd like sun/Bjorn or LC/scipio. Not saying you can get better reports but it think it comes down to preference and fight strategy, cause I’ve run both scipio/Liu and Liu/scipio and scipio primary preforms much better
It only makes sense to me if you're the type of player who frequently looses your combat chain. If that's you then you're frequently going to only get the skill from the primary commander to fire off and in that case, ya obviously having the bigger damage as the primary does better.
Hey yo Philip was Alex's father so you get buffed 40% dmg and debuff 30% dmg taken. A +20% dmg ball gonna boom 3 targets taking +30% dmg from this +20%dmg. Philip 40% chance to 2x cast a 2sec buff Alex 20% chance to 2x cast a 4sec debuff😋🤣 Now how to make them cast 1st... 2 instant procs as you build rage connecting/disconnecting in&out - Alex move speed is there. Maybe spice it with crazed inscription from wedge 35rage per proc 2secs cd, perhaps is it what support tree needs for making up for the slow first cast build up?!? haha😆
Philip's best pairing will be LC. Zhuge will be the second best. Been saying it since Philip's teaser: He has 3 strengh - instant proc - double cast - buff linger till primary's next active IF primary has a rage engine and philip triggered a double cast Only LuChe can make use of those 3 strengh as he has combo attack (rage engine + synergy with instant proc) and one of the best active skill to double cast (if not the best). Zhuge has rage engine and one the best active skill to double cast but no synergy with the instant proc sadly. But if you are not ready to drop Alex, Zhuge is probably the best pairing for philip (Btw Philip is NOT a better Trajan, he is a better Alex. They have litteraly the same kit)
I think Alex+LC is actually a stronger march compared to LC+Alex, but its problem is more contextual. When you use LC+Alex, the enemy thinks it’s a tanky march / it’s not the first priority / the player is not new. Now, when the enemy sees an Alex march, everyone just jumps to kill it, because it’s squishy / player probably new and unequipped. It’s tough to get overall good kdp with a focused march.
The biggest flaw with this is your underlying assumption that Liu/Alex is the best Liu march while the reality is it's the 4th best liu march. Scipio/Liu, Wallace/Liu, Ragnar/Liu are all just straight up better marches in the field than Liu/Alex for anything other than city hopping. Liu/Alex is run for 2 reasons. 1.) you need the scipio and/or ragnar in your 2nd inf march, 2.) You've had alex maxed for years and he's free vs spending heads on Wallace. Both of these are very valid reason to run Liu/Alex and the march IS good, but if you're on 1 inf march, it is not the right march to run for anything other than budget reasons. PS: Looking at 'kill ratios' and trades has become extremely popular lately, (which is surprising to me because people used to hate on people like chisgule for years for talking about trades), but they don't ultimately matter anywhere near as much as winning objectives.
@@TJMiton nah completely disagree there. What’s your reasoning for those other marches being better? I’ve either tested those marches myself or had ppl test it for me using the reports manager open fielding. Unless you’ve done the same and have actual data to back it up, aren’t you just assuming and theorycrafting?
@@Busdriver3092 i mean i've also run all of them and can read reports *shrug* you're also very alone in your assertations, i dont know of anyone else still recommending liu/alex as the best inf march. (960 have scipio/liu as their best inf, others have wallace/liu) the main issue with liu/alex to me personally is that it folds like a paper towel if it's hit compared to all the others. alex just does not keep up in the field, which really should not be a surprise. it's pretty irrelevant how it trades if it can't stay on the field when push comes to shove imo. also, the obvious benefits of aoe from ragnar or scipio are obvious.
@@TJMiton You're talking like your march always get full skill cycles everytime lmao, field murderball is always moving and alex is the only one that has instant proc and doesn't have to rely on skill cycle to get good trades.
@@vincenzo4630 don’t craft leadership equipment instead of troop specific equipment unless it’s a few pieces for archer…..or you are specifically running mixed troops like garrison or Trajan. Also, I’m pretty confident that he would fit much better with LC as a secondary than primary
Okk i'll wait. The idea behind crafting of leadership set was that in case i can switch pairings for him in case there will be a better pairings in the future and another reason Is for Hera as garrison
![Some Thoughts on Arthur, Combo Attack and the best march in the game [Rise of Kingdoms]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PveFoN05hcI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Some Thoughts on Arthur, Combo Attack and the best march in the game [Rise of Kingdoms]](/img/tr.png)
![Commander Testing Guide [Why KP ratio can be misleading] Rise of Kingdoms](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AVLmkMId27E/mqdefault.jpg)
![Arthur & Philip Pairing(s) [KVK open field testing results] Rise of Kingdoms](/img/n.gif)
Love the content Bro, as a new player (kvk4) have been contemplating value of attack and commander combinations in regards to actual fighting/dancing. We all need to evaluate our own specific playing style and time online to determine which route we want to go. It's not one size fits all. War Eagle!
I like the different perspectives...clear and easy to follow you. ❤
there was a lot to digest from this last video. thanks for the insights .keep it flowing
great video.. you always make me think and ? what i hear.. keep it up
Honestly this is a very interesting video, that opened up my brain lol
End game , debuffs n health is king 👑
Is there a video where you cover your marches ? Im curious that LC scipio is better then Scipio LC 😮
@@MrKleju comes out tomorrow
@ love the video. Could you explain how to go with LC scipio which talents and accesories ? Also if we apply same logic to Nevsky Joan, wouldnt it make sense to run Joan Nevsky since she gonna fire her aoe first and more often + more march speed on field. Reports should be better
@ with Nevsky/Joan the secondary commander gets the 35% extra skill damage increase and every other turn it procs twice. That changes the math a little.
About the attack stats, I had one player in my kd went for the attack stats with cavalry equipments for xy nevsky. It was around the time nevsky was released, there were no formation, no iconic tier 2+ back then. He had like 280% att, but low def and hp. It went terrible for him.
he said even when xy nevsky wasn't targeted, that march still had to return home every 15s from aoe dmg. If they are targeted, it went down so fast that even xy still couldn't use active skill once.
I think for a melee march a balance between dmg and tankiness is important, better than all in on attack or all in on def and hp.
Couldn’t agree more on the value of instant proc damage. The amount of value you get from that firing occasionally in those quick engagements where someone pulls back before an active skill cycle is insane when multiplied over an entire KvK.
nice video budd
Where do you think Alex should go in a 3 inf setup? Running liu wallace, guan scip, and Ragnar Alex rn
I suspect the main reason running your bigger damage dealer first looks better in the reports manager is because you are not always going to stay connected for the extra 2 seconds it takes to get the second commander to fire their active skill. For me that is not enough reason to run it in what is shown to be the worse configuration when running controlled tests. Maximizing your field fighting efficiency takes more skill then a lot of people realize.
@@cm52311 staying connected is one but in general the bigger skill hitting first also weakens the enemy faster from doing damage to you.
@@Busdriver3092 in a dualling sense that could be true, but in a ball fight not so much. Majority of the time the march you are hitting isn't targeting you in a big ball fight.
The big advantage for running AOE primary commanders when ball fighting is to avoid dropping rage and losing skills between targets. Targets get swarmed and die very quickly in ball fights. When your target dies, you will leave combat and reset your rage - unless you have dealt damage to or taken damage from a different march within 5 turns. With a single target primary commander like WW, you'll have situations where:
you drag your marches back and forth between safety and enemy targets
you build up enough rage to fire WW and your other primary commanders' skills
your target gets blown up and dies
WW gets kicked out of combat
you lose LC's queued active skill
With an AOE primary like LC, if you hit other enemies with your AOE skill, you'll remain in combat with those enemies for another 5 seconds even if your target dies. You can target a new enemy to fire your secondary's queued skill. Using an AOE primary almost guarantees that when you are able to build up enough rage to fire 1 skill, you will get 2 skills off.
mate exactly what my question was gonna be. isnt liu che -Phillip an upgrade for your 5 march over alex
@@MyMarius87 without testing….id lean towards yes but the question is if you can get a bigger upgrade deploying him over another commander of another troop type. So for example I run ZL/Boudica. Is Philip over Boudica a bigger upgrade over Alex?
@@Busdriver3092 for sure it is. Boudica is hated by the whole community and everyone that used her .:) . for me there's no other choice. its either alex out or no PHillip but im at 1300 sculptures before commander swap.
Orleans kvk someone needs to put as much instant proc on their lc Alex and share reports lol, nice video
Who’s more important to expertise first. Liu che or Ragnar prime
Lie chue
LC
12:50 just a comment for your stats, as you only used Zhuge/Hermann at the end of Kvk, that is when generally the weaker and more casual players are out of ressources and speeds, so there are mostly whales on the field.
An easy and consistent way to check the value of attack vs other stats in the open field is war runes brother, no need to have a whale full send into attack gear.
7/7 attack defense rune > 10 heath rune
I agree for the most part though I disagree that some damage debuff buffs are better seocnd like sun/Bjorn or LC/scipio. Not saying you can get better reports but it think it comes down to preference and fight strategy, cause I’ve run both scipio/Liu and Liu/scipio and scipio primary preforms much better
It only makes sense to me if you're the type of player who frequently looses your combat chain. If that's you then you're frequently going to only get the skill from the primary commander to fire off and in that case, ya obviously having the bigger damage as the primary does better.
Hey yo Philip was Alex's father so you get buffed 40% dmg and debuff 30% dmg taken. A +20% dmg ball gonna boom 3 targets taking +30% dmg from this +20%dmg. Philip 40% chance to 2x cast a 2sec buff Alex 20% chance to 2x cast a 4sec debuff😋🤣 Now how to make them cast 1st... 2 instant procs as you build rage connecting/disconnecting in&out - Alex move speed is there. Maybe spice it with crazed inscription from wedge 35rage per proc 2secs cd, perhaps is it what support tree needs for making up for the slow first cast build up?!? haha😆
Players should consider conditional stats, buffs or debuffs and its duration when choosing for primary🤔
I dont have herman. Want put philip behind zhuge
Philip's best pairing will be LC. Zhuge will be the second best.
Been saying it since Philip's teaser:
He has 3 strengh
- instant proc
- double cast
- buff linger till primary's next active IF primary has a rage engine and philip triggered a double cast
Only LuChe can make use of those 3 strengh as he has combo attack (rage engine + synergy with instant proc) and one of the best active skill to double cast (if not the best).
Zhuge has rage engine and one the best active skill to double cast but no synergy with the instant proc sadly.
But if you are not ready to drop Alex, Zhuge is probably the best pairing for philip
(Btw Philip is NOT a better Trajan, he is a better Alex. They have litteraly the same kit)
oh LC Philip should be meta
I think Alex+LC is actually a stronger march compared to LC+Alex, but its problem is more contextual. When you use LC+Alex, the enemy thinks it’s a tanky march / it’s not the first priority / the player is not new. Now, when the enemy sees an Alex march, everyone just jumps to kill it, because it’s squishy / player probably new and unequipped.
It’s tough to get overall good kdp with a focused march.
Not true
Even in dot mode nobody see and care who is primary
@@gabrielsimoes1730 this is why I have stressed the reports manager. In duels Alex/LC wins. Field reports, it’s not even close.
19:06 for me stats priority is health , attack then defense
The biggest flaw with this is your underlying assumption that Liu/Alex is the best Liu march while the reality is it's the 4th best liu march.
Scipio/Liu, Wallace/Liu, Ragnar/Liu are all just straight up better marches in the field than Liu/Alex for anything other than city hopping.
Liu/Alex is run for 2 reasons. 1.) you need the scipio and/or ragnar in your 2nd inf march, 2.) You've had alex maxed for years and he's free vs spending heads on Wallace.
Both of these are very valid reason to run Liu/Alex and the march IS good, but if you're on 1 inf march, it is not the right march to run for anything other than budget reasons.
PS: Looking at 'kill ratios' and trades has become extremely popular lately, (which is surprising to me because people used to hate on people like chisgule for years for talking about trades), but they don't ultimately matter anywhere near as much as winning objectives.
@@TJMiton nah completely disagree there. What’s your reasoning for those other marches being better?
I’ve either tested those marches myself or had ppl test it for me using the reports manager open fielding. Unless you’ve done the same and have actual data to back it up, aren’t you just assuming and theorycrafting?
@@Busdriver3092 i mean i've also run all of them and can read reports *shrug*
you're also very alone in your assertations, i dont know of anyone else still recommending liu/alex as the best inf march. (960 have scipio/liu as their best inf, others have wallace/liu)
the main issue with liu/alex to me personally is that it folds like a paper towel if it's hit compared to all the others. alex just does not keep up in the field, which really should not be a surprise.
it's pretty irrelevant how it trades if it can't stay on the field when push comes to shove imo.
also, the obvious benefits of aoe from ragnar or scipio are obvious.
I also use report manager. Since 3 kvks my best trading march is Liu Alex.
@@TJMiton You're talking like your march always get full skill cycles everytime lmao, field murderball is always moving and alex is the only one that has instant proc and doesn't have to rely on skill cycle to get good trades.
Liu alex is the best haha
I love it when u infa guys just talk about so many options while we cav players are deep in shit
Bruh us infantry had to go through periods of drought for a long time you cavs are experiencing just a fraction plus the next cav should be op
@kureha6663 should is another form of lilith screwing us, hopes and dreams with lilith doesnt work anymore 🤣
welcome to the hell inf players were in for over a year while cav players were getting everything.
so do you think is better to wait to craft leadership gear ?
btw my idea was to use him as primary with liu che
@@vincenzo4630 don’t craft leadership equipment instead of troop specific equipment unless it’s a few pieces for archer…..or you are specifically running mixed troops like garrison or Trajan.
Also, I’m pretty confident that he would fit much better with LC as a secondary than primary
Okk i'll wait. The idea behind crafting of leadership set was that in case i can switch pairings for him in case there will be a better pairings in the future and another reason Is for Hera as garrison
zzz zzzz zzz
Has anyone tested Pyrrhus primary LC secondary?
@@fernandogomes3787 I don’t think it’d be good. But I do think LC/Pyrrhus is probably the best march that nobody talks about
@Busdriver3092 I wish his relic was normal damage and not skill