Lionheart was a logistics exercise mainly. It was to see how quickly we could get from UK and US. There were the road parties that went in convoys over the Ferries. We Infantry were flown from various airports Brize Norton of course, but I'm sure if memory serves that our lot flew out of Heathrow. I could be wrong. We sat waiting out by the road side (for hours) then through a roadside gate onto the aircraft and off. The usual, "Hurry up and wait!" Webbing wise we used either UT straps or para cord that went through the wire fixing bottom R/L of the Ammo Pouches and fastened round your back and adjusted strap to pull Pouches back at an angle. On the dummy You'll notice Pouches just dangle from the belt when you had to get down to kneeling or prone they got in your way so tying them back with para cord or UT straps stopped this, it also stop the Pouches from flapping around and rattling making unneeded noise. The respirator bag and how it was fixed to you was a personal decision. You were the one that had to mask in 9 so you needed it close. Generally in the field, Infantry had their webbing on all the time or close at hand even digging trenches, if you took it off it was never more than arms length away, so the majority fixed it to the webbing, however sometimes (rarely) you may leave your webbing and rifle so you took the respirator off the belt and either fixed it around your waist, your neck hanging on your chest, or by your side. Personal preference. Most soldiers wore their respirator on the left side. Though I'm right handed I found it easier fixed between right ammo pouch and water bottle, rather than on my left. You'll notice a piece of string tucked into a little pouch on the side bottom. It was often thought it was an aid to blinded soldiers, so they could hold onto the string and be guided where to go, following the soldier in front it was attached to. Actually it was simply a piece of string to tie the Respirator pouch to your leg. Few ever did, most cut the string off as it could get caught on stuff. The "Poncho" roll bag you show was more commonly known as a bum roll as it hung down by that area designed in the 50s to fasten the old rubberised gas capes originally. Some bright spark decided that as the new ponchos were thinner and took up less room that we could roll up our NBC suits and fasten that in there as well as the NBC rubber boots on the outside some how. This was only done for training purposes as in the real situation the suits would be issued not carried. The Webbing belt would stretch and contract in wet and dry conditions a real pain in the A**e when trying to unfasten it to take it off, there were many solutions but the most popular I think was the one I also did, that was to aquire an RAF roll belt loading strap cut it down to size fasten it to your webbing belt and use the roll belt fastener. I think its safe to say most infantry webbing belts were customised in one or more ways. We added water bottles some used US Army Pouches instead of issue Kidney Pouches some would fasten roll mat material or sponge to the Yoke shoulder strap to ease the weight on their shoulders. You name it someone probably did it. Your webbing carried everything important you needed with you so you'd tailor it to your individual needs.
I got called up for this exercise ( reservist ex 3RGJ) at the time I was an art student.... so... one moment I’m a sensitive souled artist, the next moment I’m being processed - rifle webbing etc - and flown off to Germany as a BCR (Battle Casualty Replacement)! It was great fun being a soldier again for a while and the pay was very welcome.... we seemed to spend a lot of time ..... waiting......and waiting some more!
We took great pride in our helmet scrim, almost wig like with the strips of material getting longer towards the rear and hanging down at the back about 8 inches (mine was a mix of strips of black and tan hessian, old lightweights and scrim scarf between 6 and 18 inches long - some doubled to act as ties for natural cam material, most though tied at one end only) My Regt had little FFD pouches we wore on our shoulder straps, made from green waterproof nylon material. Our respirators were on our webbing as you carried that all the time except hand breaching minefields or bridging. Supposed to wear three layers underneath our noddy suits, we often wore just a t shirt and ended up with black arms (if we could we would wash new suits in the machines in the troop lines before we wore them, they became really comfy, flexible and warm in winter). It was standard when we went out on ex to be in noddy kit on day one until endex was called at that time for us. NBC inners were worn in our NI gloves as extra insulation, made a lot of difference.
I've heard that training in northern Germany troops hated getting into them but loved their insulating quality and found the mark iii suits comfy in the cold weather.
Regarding the respirator haversack; I served in RAFG in the 80's. My particular trade wore the respirator attached to the webbing belt permanently when it was necessary to wear webbing at all but those in Technical trades, where wearing of full webbing was too cumbersome to carry out their job, would wear the respirator only. Therefore, at times the webbing and respirator for those personnel would occasionally be worn together but separate from one another to allow removal of the webbing but ensured the continued carry of the respirator.
One thing on the NBC Smock. Our Unit in BAOR had Black Tape covering the top flap of the chest pocket. On this was written your surname and Blood group in chalk. Makes sense as when masked up, no one knew who anyone else was. Looking at the suggested playlist....Day 10...Endex. I think not. 24 Days we were out for. NBC Suits, the savior of a cold squaddie to keep warm or keep his Combat/cammo clothing clean. Combat Overalls we called them in our RCT Unit.
Nice little presentation. I was on Lionheart 84 deploying from Tidworth Garrison over the channel on 'commandeered' roll-on/roll-off ferries, loaded onto trains to be deployed to the exercise areas in Germany, all in all we spent about three weeks in the field. I served from 1980 until Dec last year. Ref the respirator haversack being worn on the belt or using its own strap. It was purely down to unit SOP. Every Bn/Regt had its own SOP's, although they usually had a lot in common dependent on the role of that unit may require adaptions to unit SOP's. For example most (but not all of course!) infantry units wore the respirator haversack on the webbing belt as part of their CEFO. As they wore the CEFO the majority of the time to do their job meant it was always to hand when needed. However, units such as the RCT where drivers could not perform their role wearing webbing may well have it detached, so that it could be worn around the waist or on the chest and still perform their primary function. Last point both one and three colour detector papers can only detect the presence of LIQUID chemical agents (not vapour or gas), but only if that liquid came into contact with the paper.
Took part with 5th Anglian Reg{TA} 2coy Signals Platoon.Respirator was worn on the belt never used the strap.Was issued a sterling smg ,bayonet and a stupid full size shovel that kept hitting the back of my helmet!We flew out to Grafenwohr and spent the best part of two weeks in a german barn.NBC kit was worn all the time ,once for a 24hr period,never issued the NBC boots though. Helmets were issued in plain green with a green net,I covered mine in sacking ,then the net and fixed more sacking strips and scrim on it ,looked a bit like a bush on my head !.Poncho roll was carried below the pouches but as it was never designed to carry the NBC suit and Poncho ,we had to use civvie bungees painted green to keep it all together. Only just got the hi leg boots ,previously wore DMS leaky boots and bloody puttees,some blokes also had the older NBC suits and some had woodstock SLRs.
I joined the TA in '89 (infantry, Recce Platoon) - our uniform & kit was much the same as this although we had Kevlar helmets issued I'm sure. We wore respirator case on webbing belt and ditched the kidney pouches for extra water bottle pouches which kept kit more secure. Most of our bulky kit was stowed in our LWB Land Rovers and we mostly got away with basic belt kit & wooly hats / headovers for most recce patrols. NCO's and the old hands had all been on Lionheart and it was still referred to constantly in training and lectures.
I can't speak for Lionheart as I joined TA Infantry in 1988, but we always had our respirator case (S10) on our webbing belt, on the right behind the ammo pouch. It was always on us because even if you were in the Batallion CP, even on a CPX (Command Post Exercise) without rifle companies, we always wore our webbing unless we were sleeping. We were issued webbing and uniform which we could take home with us, however helmets and respirators were kept in stores in the drill hall and issued before departing on exercises or training, so it was a pain in the bum having to remove ammo pouch, slide ressy case on, and replace ammo pouch and vice versa twice a weekend or even a day if it was just a range day or NBC training. Later I was in the regulars - Int. Corps and Signals - and likewise we always had the respirator on our webbing, although I didn't go on Op Granby, but I heard guys there had the respirator case with them all the time even without webbing on base for example, as the NBC threat was omnipresent and ubiquitous. In BAOR or UK exercises I guess that some units would have the respirator separate from the webbing, for example armoured vehicle crewmen, RCT drivers, medics and so on as they wouldn't wear webbing all the time.
I was part of lion heart 7bt DLI I was 17 at the time and what a blast it was. Great memories. I worn my poncho under my back pouch's and my respiratory on my webbing. Great video well done 👍👍
I carried my s6 haversack on my webbing might have been a pain but it all went with me. I think it was a case in some units that they all carried it one way or the other aa standard SOP. Others were more flexible. My TA unit was taking part in the UK if I remember rightly.
My BAOR Unit had them on the belt. I think that unless the webbing interfered with your job, it went on your belt. In 1987 attached to 12 Heavy Regt RA, i found that they only wore the Respirator Haversack whilst manning the Guns.
Haversack was worn on the left (for those who were right handed) and on the belt, I think the only time it wasnt worn on your webbing is if (as many have said) it interfered with your job (was R.Sigs, it didnt matter to us if it interfered with our job or not, we still had to wear it on your belt 😄).
We always had the S6 haversack on the webbing belt. We wore our NBC suits through the whole of Ex Lionheart . I remember I put my NBC suit in the washing machine before we deployed, it washed out most of the charcoal and made it a bit softer and more comfortable. Come endex, we ditched the NBC suits and webbing, just carried weapons. I was attached to an Armoured Workshop, we moved into a disused factory complex and didn't move until we drove back to Munster. A good exercise, I enjoyed it.
In '84 the respirator haversack was generally worn attached to the web belt. Wearing it on its own strap became more the norm during the first gulf war. I seem to recall that we spent a lot of time in NBC kit during Lionheart (urgh!). I also remember that we wore the respirator haversack on the left hand side. This was especially true when we were issued with the SA80 as you let the rifle drop to your right (on the sling) to then draw your respirator from the left. Obviously if your had your haversack on your right then your rifle would get in the way.
I was in support troop, C squadron Qoy during Lionheart. At earlier on the ranges we were told to tape our field dressings to our belts then from the medics we were told to put them in our combat trouser pocket, the RAMC had the final say. Nbc suits made great welding jackets when welding your old car at home. Oh respirator on the webbing belt, there was to many straps, bungees etc.
Cracking video yet again. Couple of observations (from someone who took part in Ex-Lionheart 84). Firstly, we never ever carried a bayonet on exercise at this period. Infantry would always carry a poncho- unless it was in use on a basha (but these should be taken down in daytime). Infantry SOP was to have the resi pouch fixed on the belt. Any pics showing otherwise would likely be REMFs. Try running in kit with the pouch not attached will demonstrate why. The webbing looks a bit sterile. It was an SOP to have black elastic sewn on the pouches - to attach vegetation. And the black tape used would not be electrical tape but Army black masking tape (as it was known). The front smock pouch should hold the NBC gloves inner and outer.
I still have some maps and Soxmis card! :) BTW In the Engineers we wore the respirator on the belt, it's easier to pull out than if its on the strap as it tends to waggle around. my unit was based at Gordon barracks at the time of Lionheart, we mostly worked on transporting Tanks across the Weser. Nearly got cut clean in half doing that, saved by a breath of wind, ....fun times! :)
Was in the RRF (TA) in 84 I had a cracking time on Lionheart. The money was great at the time :-) I sometimes watch the videos of lionheart when on nights brings back some great memories of good times and good friends!! There's a company making Lionheart 84 T shirt's
nearly correct. the NBC pouch was on the right side on the belt as per S.O.P's not on its own, unless the task set required you to wear it on its own. , poncho roll was as per the soldiers own preference, it carried spare nbc suit gloves and boots also poncho never empty as you were never in one place long enough to keep your basher up. water bottle pouch your mug was in the bottom and bottle on top for ease of use , otherwise you had to mess about , you put the webbing on and try to get the water bottle out with the mug on top then try and put it back without taking off your webbing in full kit, FFD ( first field dressing ) was where ever you felt it was easy to get to as long as you had it. we were issued a dosimeter either a pen style or wrist watch style for radio active detection. detector papers reacted to 2 types of either chemical or biological threat one of each.
FFD taped to anything was strictly verboten in RAMC units I served in. This exercise was the year before I joined. But the NBC kit was the same. Resi case on my right side and worn on the belt, only in its own belt when in field hospitals. The FFD on your mannakin wasn't the largest there was a 12 x 12 inch issue which would now be called an abdominal size. These were is the armoured field ambulance medical boxes and were highly sought after. NBC suits as has been mentioned already were warm in the german winter. We used the sniper / scaley green cloth tape to mark the suit with last 4, name. Point to note. No matter how many times you put your blood group on kit we never took any notice if it. Universal blood group to all till cross matched.
Nice info.Makes me wonder why our Units SOP's were to do as i said above but meant nothing to the next Unit in the chain if injured...That would be yoursevles. Admittadly, dog tags were worn but i suppose difficult to obtain/get hold of from around the neck if in NBC Black.
@@66kbm usually the kit didn't last long once the tuff cuts came out. Depending on chemical injury the suits stayed on till we had decontaminated. Full and half chemical casualty bags for ambulatory and litter casualties were used too. Back in those days we were still using twin large bore ivs ( 14g - it's like a 4 inch nail ) and bags of hartman's fluid. These days we don't and if possible it's whole blood from either storage or " walking blood banks " using direct field transfusions. Test the patient's blood group at the bed side now with an eldon card. How things have advanced from us bimbling around germany with shed loads of kit.
I didn't think anybody used whole blood, or had done for years (mind you, I'm 20 years out of both RAMC and nursing). You're right about ignoring the blue od group, it makes me smile when one sees racing cars & motorcycles with it painted on them, webbing etc with blood-group patches. It will be ignored. The biggest risk from a blood transfusion is not catching something (which is about the same odds as winning the lottery) but some pillock giving you someone elses bag of blood which is the wrong blood group. Although systems are in place to prevent it, nothing is foolproof, as idiots are very ingenious!
@@cmck472 tactical field blood transfusion kits are standard issue to the 75th rangers battalion and the danish SF. It's in use in Afghanistan were I currently work. Also used by some uk HEMS teams. Military personnel already have their blood groups know and recorded. This makes the " walking blood bank" easy to get a donation from. Find the guy with a match. Check with eldon card, 450ml into donor bag from field blood transfusion kits. Then into casualty with using recipient kit from FBTK. Patients need blood not salty water is the mantra despite the two large bore IV policy and training of the UKMS back in the day. Now it's titrate maximum of 250ml saline to keep BP up. Freeze dried plasma and platelets are carried by medivac as well as whole blood. Bit off topic so I apologize for hijacking the thread.
Every Field unit I ever served with from 1976 to 1994 wore their respirator haversacks on their webbing belts. I think the reason that some didn't would be to do with their trades, for instance if they were working in close environments such as vehicle mechanics.
True indeed. I do know SOP in the Gulf in 1990/1991 was to carry the respirator haversack on its own strap, separate from the rest of the equipment. I believe this was the case for all arms.
i was recce platoon i kosb the nbc suit was carried in the poncho carrier with the poncho in it as well when not wearing nbc suit a bastard to put back together 😁
I would say the cape/NBC carrier would be carried underneath the kidney pouches, can’t recall ever seen it been carried on top, the respirator would have been attached to the belt, very rarely would you need the respirator separate from the webbing and of course the side would change depending on being left or right handed.
I joined my battalion a few years later after Lionheart & we still had full 58 patt the 1980s just saturated and overloaded it with NBC,IPK,waterproofs & poncho this is what led to the " daysack" being privately purchased & eventually issued with the PLCE,our way of wearing the respirator was you put you're webbing n first then the ressie pouch with its strap over the webbing on the left,the reason is if you were digging a trench you're ressie was at hand as you couldn't practically dig a trench with it on also handy for a shovel recce.i saw a number of modifications used mainly using the bum roll clips and spare straps being fashioned so the pouch could be attached to the top of the ammo pouch and to the yoke or kidney pouches whilst the main strap was folded away for use when you wasn't wearing the webbing.i understand infantry wore it this way the corps wore it on the belt.
I used that very kit, how the haversack was worn was very much down to unit choice. Some units it was left up to each soldier how they wished to carry it, others had SOPs. I carried it on my webbing as it all stayed together that way. Indeed I used another haversack instead of kidney pouches as you could get more kit/supplies in it and thus live out of belt kit longer without needing to have a day pack/bergan catch up with you!
In the OTC in 1989, we were issued the MK 4 helmet, ‘58 pattern webbing, S6 respirator and either MK 2 or 3 NBC suits. Our SOP was to carry the respirator case on the belt and the NBC suit in the poncho carrier (bloody nightmare trying to get it in!), but other TA units wore it as a haversack at the time. Apart from wearing them in the gas chamber, the NBC suits were fantastic when we did exercises in the Winter, very warm 😉
I served with the Royal Irish Rangers during Lion Heart. I was a mortar officer for the Battalion. One thing I do remember was that while passing up the reinforcement chain I got fed everywhere it was great. We ended up in an ad hoc Airborne Bde Commanded by a Brig Jeeps I believe his name was. It was a really great exercise. Great memories.
Great to read your recollections, thanks for sharing. You may have seen I've interviewed veterans from various periods about their experience during their service, something I'm trying to expand upon. I wonder, might you consider sitting down for an interview via zoom, or similar at some point to get your memories of the exercise on record?
There was a smaller bit of ex lionhart in Northern Ireland mostly mostly in the trainings areas of Ballykinlar and Magilligan with the Ulster Defence Regiment and some roulment Battalions . It was a different way of soldiering for the home service battalions, Most infantry battalions as I remember had the respirator on the belt as using the strap it bounced up and down were in the belt we used bungee cords to keep the rattle down
No...you don't use insulation tape for the field dressing, you use Gaffer tape. Gaffer tape rips from its edge so you can actually get it off when you need to (Yes, I was on Lionheart too))
I think like a lot of things at this period it varied from person to person. I'm in no way discounting your personal experience and method of doing this, just that other's I've spoken to who seved in the '80s did use electrical tape for this purpose.
A platoon of Australian Military Police were sent to BAOR for Ex Lionheart in 1984 not sure which RMP Coy they served with. In 1980 I went to BAOR with another platoon of Australian Military Police for Ex Crusader and we served with 101 Pro Coy at Paderborn and served throughout their area of operations, we flew to the UK (Chichester) via Hong Kong (we spent a week in HK and a week in Chichester) and then flew to Germany for the exercise, we were issued complete sets of British gear which we had to hand back before returning to Australia, including the socks. In 1982 I went back to BAOR on Ex Longlook an exchange exercise and went to 110 Pro Coy at Dusseldorf and participated in their parade in Xanten where they were given the freedom of the city, also spent time with 19 Spt Platoon RMP at Bielefeld on SOXMIS duties, had a great time on both occasions, a great bunch of people
Tut tut, supposed to wear three layers of clothing underneath - we would chuck new suits in the washing machines in the troop line, so much comfier afterwards lol
One thing I find confusing with webbing of that time is the amount of kit carried that is not needed in a firefight from toothpaste to boot cleaning gear. Why?
It was what you needed to live in the field, like the old Small Haversack used in the 37 pattern webbing from back in the day.. The Soviet bloc had already moved to a Helmet, weapons, Respirator, NBC suit, ammunition, bayonet, water bottle and Entrenching tool was all you needed in the All arms mechanised assault.... your existence load was in the transport/ fighting vehicle.
Always wore the respirator on lhs of webbing in my day. Gas kit was always carried in poncho roll. Noddy suits as they where known where warm in the winter! NBC was a big thing on all exercises in BAOR from 70/80s. Survival in an NBC environment? Zilch probably in sustained attack. S6 was not antidrag. Let’s not forget that the NBC training was primarily for surfing after we had used Tac Nukes!
I remember every crevice being black because of the charcoal seeping out of the NBC suit and into the skin. We also had a lot of accidents and several fatalities due to heavy rain and vehicles overturning or sinking. That said, I was proud to be part of that huge show of strength against the Soviets.
did guys really wear kidney pouches?, most of the guys i knew [me included]used water bottle pouches ,trip flare boxes inside for your kit, poncho roll on top, anything to keep the weight down, in my unit while on exercise as long it was green it could go on your belt[CSM going episcopic not included lol]
the reason was for gas mask carried that way was take your webbing off gas mask still with you if in a queue for scoff with rifle in hand if getting fresh rations in the field hated it taking gas mask pouch of webbing pain 😁
Arrgh 58 pat webbing.....heavier than what you put in it when wet......large pack that used to chin the back of your helmet in prone position....any one remember the plastic Dpm non waterproofs you would sweat like a rapist....believe they were a regimental purchase deffo not NSN i remember we modded the poncho roll to sit above the kidney pooches. Great times..
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Lionheart was a logistics exercise mainly. It was to see how quickly we could get from UK and US.
There were the road parties that went in convoys over the Ferries. We Infantry were flown from various airports Brize Norton of course, but I'm sure if memory serves that our lot flew out of Heathrow. I could be wrong. We sat waiting out by the road side (for hours) then through a roadside gate onto the aircraft and off.
The usual, "Hurry up and wait!"
Webbing wise we used either UT straps or para cord that went through the wire fixing bottom R/L of the Ammo Pouches and fastened round your back and adjusted strap to pull Pouches back at an angle.
On the dummy You'll notice Pouches just dangle from the belt when you had to get down to kneeling or prone they got in your way so tying them back with para cord or UT straps stopped this, it also stop the Pouches from flapping around and rattling making unneeded noise.
The respirator bag and how it was fixed to you was a personal decision. You were the one that had to mask in 9 so you needed it close.
Generally in the field, Infantry had their webbing on all the time or close at hand even digging trenches, if you took it off it was never more than arms length away, so the majority fixed it to the webbing, however sometimes (rarely) you may leave your webbing and rifle so you took the respirator off the belt and either fixed it around your waist, your neck hanging on your chest, or by your side. Personal preference.
Most soldiers wore their respirator on the left side.
Though I'm right handed I found it easier fixed between right ammo pouch and water bottle, rather than on my left.
You'll notice a piece of string tucked into a little pouch on the side bottom. It was often thought it was an aid to blinded soldiers, so they could hold onto the string and be guided where to go, following the soldier in front it was attached to.
Actually it was simply a piece of string to tie the Respirator pouch to your leg.
Few ever did, most cut the string off as it could get caught on stuff.
The "Poncho" roll bag you show was more commonly known as a bum roll as it hung down by that area designed in the 50s to fasten the old rubberised gas capes originally. Some bright spark decided that as the new ponchos were thinner and took up less room that we could roll up our NBC suits and fasten that in there as well as the NBC rubber boots on the outside some how.
This was only done for training purposes as in the real situation the suits would be issued not carried.
The Webbing belt would stretch and contract in wet and dry conditions a real pain in the A**e when trying to unfasten it to take it off, there were many solutions but the most popular I think was the one I also did, that was to aquire an RAF roll belt loading strap cut it down to size fasten it to your webbing belt and use the roll belt fastener.
I think its safe to say most infantry webbing belts were customised in one or more ways.
We added water bottles some used US Army Pouches instead of issue Kidney Pouches some would fasten roll mat material or sponge to the Yoke shoulder strap to ease the weight on their shoulders. You name it someone probably did it. Your webbing carried everything important you needed with you so you'd tailor it to your individual needs.
I got called up for this exercise ( reservist ex 3RGJ) at the time I was an art student.... so... one moment I’m a sensitive souled artist, the next moment I’m being processed - rifle webbing etc - and flown off to Germany as a BCR (Battle Casualty Replacement)! It was great fun being a soldier again for a while and the pay was very welcome.... we seemed to spend a lot of time ..... waiting......and waiting some more!
We took great pride in our helmet scrim, almost wig like with the strips of material getting longer towards the rear and hanging down at the back about 8 inches (mine was a mix of strips of black and tan hessian, old lightweights and scrim scarf between 6 and 18 inches long - some doubled to act as ties for natural cam material, most though tied at one end only)
My Regt had little FFD pouches we wore on our shoulder straps, made from green waterproof nylon material.
Our respirators were on our webbing as you carried that all the time except hand breaching minefields or bridging.
Supposed to wear three layers underneath our noddy suits, we often wore just a t shirt and ended up with black arms (if we could we would wash new suits in the machines in the troop lines before we wore them, they became really comfy, flexible and warm in winter). It was standard when we went out on ex to be in noddy kit on day one until endex was called at that time for us.
NBC inners were worn in our NI gloves as extra insulation, made a lot of difference.
The pen pocket on the sleeve was not ment for a pen but a pen dosimeter to monitor radiation dosage during nucular attack
Noted some old ones for sale recently, amazing condition but sold as display only!
Helmet scrim. I was so heavily scrimmed up I got a bollocking for being a “Fire Hazard”.
I've still got my detector paper in my loft! I enjoyed Lionheart, spent most of it driving an FV432. Better than walking...😁🇬🇧👍
I was so drunk during lionheart lol but a damn fine exercise/time remember it well
Fus... reckon you might've been the speeding 432 bugger who nearly ran me over !
😜
That should have been the ad slogan : _FV432, better than walking_ .
@@cuhurun If that was the time I had our mad C/O on board pushing me to "give it some" then I heartily apologise! 🤣🤣🤣👍🇬🇧 Great days..
@@fus149hammer4 : Yep , sure were. As for your C/O... typical Rupert, eh ?
Stay safe, fella !
I've heard that training in northern Germany troops hated getting into them but loved their insulating quality and found the mark iii suits comfy in the cold weather.
Kept me warm on many an exercise.
Regarding the respirator haversack; I served in RAFG in the 80's. My particular trade wore the respirator attached to the webbing belt permanently when it was necessary to wear webbing at all but those in Technical trades, where wearing of full webbing was too cumbersome to carry out their job, would wear the respirator only. Therefore, at times the webbing and respirator for those personnel would occasionally be worn together but separate from one another to allow removal of the webbing but ensured the continued carry of the respirator.
One thing on the NBC Smock. Our Unit in BAOR had Black Tape covering the top flap of the chest pocket. On this was written your surname and Blood group in chalk. Makes sense as when masked up, no one knew who anyone else was. Looking at the suggested playlist....Day 10...Endex. I think not. 24 Days we were out for. NBC Suits, the savior of a cold squaddie to keep warm or keep his Combat/cammo clothing clean. Combat Overalls we called them in our RCT Unit.
Nice little presentation. I was on Lionheart 84 deploying from Tidworth Garrison over the channel on 'commandeered' roll-on/roll-off ferries, loaded onto trains to be deployed to the exercise areas in Germany, all in all we spent about three weeks in the field. I served from 1980 until Dec last year. Ref the respirator haversack being worn on the belt or using its own strap. It was purely down to unit SOP. Every Bn/Regt had its own SOP's, although they usually had a lot in common dependent on the role of that unit may require adaptions to unit SOP's. For example most (but not all of course!) infantry units wore the respirator haversack on the webbing belt as part of their CEFO. As they wore the CEFO the majority of the time to do their job meant it was always to hand when needed. However, units such as the RCT where drivers could not perform their role wearing webbing may well have it detached, so that it could be worn around the waist or on the chest and still perform their primary function. Last point both one and three colour detector papers can only detect the presence of LIQUID chemical agents (not vapour or gas), but only if that liquid came into contact with the paper.
Took part with 5th Anglian Reg{TA} 2coy Signals Platoon.Respirator was worn on the belt never used the strap.Was issued a sterling smg ,bayonet and a stupid full size shovel that kept hitting the back of my helmet!We flew out to Grafenwohr and spent the best part of two weeks in a german barn.NBC kit was worn all the time ,once for a 24hr period,never issued the NBC boots though. Helmets were issued in plain green with a green net,I covered mine in sacking ,then the net and fixed more sacking strips and scrim on it ,looked a bit like a bush on my head !.Poncho roll was carried below the pouches but as it was never designed to carry the NBC suit and Poncho ,we had to use civvie bungees painted green to keep it all together. Only just got the hi leg boots ,previously wore DMS leaky boots and bloody puttees,some blokes also had the older NBC suits and some had woodstock SLRs.
I joined the TA in '89 (infantry, Recce Platoon) - our uniform & kit was much the same as this although we had Kevlar helmets issued I'm sure. We wore respirator case on webbing belt and ditched the kidney pouches for extra water bottle pouches which kept kit more secure. Most of our bulky kit was stowed in our LWB Land Rovers and we mostly got away with basic belt kit & wooly hats / headovers for most recce patrols. NCO's and the old hands had all been on Lionheart and it was still referred to constantly in training and lectures.
I can't speak for Lionheart as I joined TA Infantry in 1988, but we always had our respirator case (S10) on our webbing belt, on the right behind the ammo pouch. It was always on us because even if you were in the Batallion CP, even on a CPX (Command Post Exercise) without rifle companies, we always wore our webbing unless we were sleeping. We were issued webbing and uniform which we could take home with us, however helmets and respirators were kept in stores in the drill hall and issued before departing on exercises or training, so it was a pain in the bum having to remove ammo pouch, slide ressy case on, and replace ammo pouch and vice versa twice a weekend or even a day if it was just a range day or NBC training.
Later I was in the regulars - Int. Corps and Signals - and likewise we always had the respirator on our webbing, although I didn't go on Op Granby, but I heard guys there had the respirator case with them all the time even without webbing on base for example, as the NBC threat was omnipresent and ubiquitous.
In BAOR or UK exercises I guess that some units would have the respirator separate from the webbing, for example armoured vehicle crewmen, RCT drivers, medics and so on as they wouldn't wear webbing all the time.
I was part of lion heart 7bt DLI I was 17 at the time and what a blast it was. Great memories. I worn my poncho under my back pouch's and my respiratory on my webbing. Great video well done 👍👍
Hi guys I was on lionhart 84 with 1 mercian B company TA it was awesome using puma and Chinnock helicopters fantastic experience.
I carried my s6 haversack on my webbing might have been a pain but it all went with me. I think it was a case in some units that they all carried it one way or the other aa standard SOP. Others were more flexible. My TA unit was taking part in the UK if I remember rightly.
My BAOR Unit had them on the belt. I think that unless the webbing interfered with your job, it went on your belt. In 1987 attached to 12 Heavy Regt RA, i found that they only wore the Respirator Haversack whilst manning the Guns.
We wore ours on our Web kit as Sappers.
On the odd occasion we never wore webbing (minefield breaching by hand, bridge building).
Haversack was worn on the left (for those who were right handed) and on the belt, I think the only time it wasnt worn on your webbing is if (as many have said) it interfered with your job (was R.Sigs, it didnt matter to us if it interfered with our job or not, we still had to wear it on your belt 😄).
1st Bn The Light Infantry, we wore the respirator case on the belt.
We always had the S6 haversack on the webbing belt. We wore our NBC suits through the whole of Ex Lionheart . I remember I put my NBC suit in the washing machine before we deployed, it washed out most of the charcoal and made it a bit softer and more comfortable. Come endex, we ditched the NBC suits and webbing, just carried weapons. I was attached to an Armoured Workshop, we moved into a disused factory complex and didn't move until we drove back to Munster. A good exercise, I enjoyed it.
I think I was involved in that exercise, 38 years ago, we would have been based at Emblem camp in Olen. We made our way there by ferry from Dover.
Simon - Thanks for another really interesting video, as always. Keep 'em coming!
In '84 the respirator haversack was generally worn attached to the web belt. Wearing it on its own strap became more the norm during the first gulf war. I seem to recall that we spent a lot of time in NBC kit during Lionheart (urgh!). I also remember that we wore the respirator haversack on the left hand side. This was especially true when we were issued with the SA80 as you let the rifle drop to your right (on the sling) to then draw your respirator from the left. Obviously if your had your haversack on your right then your rifle would get in the way.
I was in support troop, C squadron Qoy during Lionheart. At earlier on the ranges we were told to tape our field dressings to our belts then from the medics we were told to put them in our combat trouser pocket, the RAMC had the final say. Nbc suits made great welding jackets when welding your old car at home. Oh respirator on the webbing belt, there was to many straps, bungees etc.
Cracking video yet again.
Couple of observations (from someone who took part in Ex-Lionheart 84). Firstly, we never ever carried a bayonet on exercise at this period.
Infantry would always carry a poncho- unless it was in use on a basha (but these should be taken down in daytime).
Infantry SOP was to have the resi pouch fixed on the belt. Any pics showing otherwise would likely be REMFs. Try running in kit with the pouch not attached will demonstrate why.
The webbing looks a bit sterile. It was an SOP to have black elastic sewn on the pouches - to attach vegetation.
And the black tape used would not be electrical tape but Army black masking tape (as it was known).
The front smock pouch should hold the NBC gloves inner and outer.
Many thanks for the information!
I still have some maps and Soxmis card! :) BTW In the Engineers we wore the respirator on the belt, it's easier to pull out than if its on the strap as it tends to waggle around. my unit was based at Gordon barracks at the time of Lionheart, we mostly worked on transporting Tanks across the Weser. Nearly got cut clean in half doing that, saved by a breath of wind, ....fun times! :)
Was in the RRF (TA) in 84 I had a cracking time on Lionheart. The money was great at the time :-) I sometimes watch the videos of lionheart when on nights brings back some great memories of good times and good friends!! There's a company making Lionheart 84 T shirt's
nearly correct. the NBC pouch was on the right side on the belt as per S.O.P's not on its own, unless the task set required you to wear it on its own. , poncho roll was as per the soldiers own preference, it carried spare nbc suit gloves and boots also poncho never empty as you were never in one place long enough to keep your basher up. water bottle pouch your mug was in the bottom and bottle on top for ease of use , otherwise you had to mess about , you put the webbing on and try to get the water bottle out with the mug on top then try and put it back without taking off your webbing in full kit, FFD ( first field dressing ) was where ever you felt it was easy to get to as long as you had it. we were issued a dosimeter either a pen style or wrist watch style for radio active detection. detector papers reacted to 2 types of either chemical or biological threat one of each.
My respirator was always attached to my 58 pattern webbing belt. Do not recall ever seeing anything else. Regular army - BAOR.
Same Same Royal Marines.
FFD taped to anything was strictly verboten in RAMC units I served in. This exercise was the year before I joined. But the NBC kit was the same. Resi case on my right side and worn on the belt, only in its own belt when in field hospitals. The FFD on your mannakin wasn't the largest there was a 12 x 12 inch issue which would now be called an abdominal size. These were is the armoured field ambulance medical boxes and were highly sought after. NBC suits as has been mentioned already were warm in the german winter.
We used the sniper / scaley green cloth tape to mark the suit with last 4, name. Point to note. No matter how many times you put your blood group on kit we never took any notice if it. Universal blood group to all till cross matched.
Nice info.Makes me wonder why our Units SOP's were to do as i said above but meant nothing to the next Unit in the chain if injured...That would be yoursevles. Admittadly, dog tags were worn but i suppose difficult to obtain/get hold of from around the neck if in NBC Black.
@@66kbm usually the kit didn't last long once the tuff cuts came out. Depending on chemical injury the suits stayed on till we had decontaminated. Full and half chemical casualty bags for ambulatory and litter casualties were used too.
Back in those days we were still using twin large bore ivs ( 14g - it's like a 4 inch nail ) and bags of hartman's fluid. These days we don't and if possible it's whole blood from either storage or " walking blood banks " using direct field transfusions. Test the patient's blood group at the bed side now with an eldon card. How things have advanced from us bimbling around germany with shed loads of kit.
I didn't think anybody used whole blood, or had done for years (mind you, I'm 20 years out of both RAMC and nursing). You're right about ignoring the blue od group, it makes me smile when one sees racing cars & motorcycles with it painted on them, webbing etc with blood-group patches. It will be ignored.
The biggest risk from a blood transfusion is not catching something (which is about the same odds as winning the lottery) but some pillock giving you someone elses bag of blood which is the wrong blood group. Although systems are in place to prevent it, nothing is foolproof, as idiots are very ingenious!
@@cmck472 tactical field blood transfusion kits are standard issue to the 75th rangers battalion and the danish SF. It's in use in Afghanistan were I currently work. Also used by some uk HEMS teams. Military personnel already have their blood groups know and recorded. This makes the " walking blood bank" easy to get a donation from. Find the guy with a match. Check with eldon card, 450ml into donor bag from field blood transfusion kits. Then into casualty with using recipient kit from FBTK. Patients need blood not salty water is the mantra despite the two large bore IV policy and training of the UKMS back in the day. Now it's titrate maximum of 250ml saline to keep BP up. Freeze dried plasma and platelets are carried by medivac as well as whole blood. Bit off topic so I apologize for hijacking the thread.
@@KTM-xz9qj Thanks for that, it has changed since the '90's!
Every Field unit I ever served with from 1976 to 1994 wore their respirator haversacks on their webbing belts. I think the reason that some didn't would be to do with their trades, for instance if they were working in close environments such as vehicle mechanics.
True indeed. I do know SOP in the Gulf in 1990/1991 was to carry the respirator haversack on its own strap, separate from the rest of the equipment. I believe this was the case for all arms.
i was recce platoon i kosb the nbc suit was carried in the poncho carrier with the poncho in it as well when not wearing nbc suit a bastard to put back together 😁
I would say the cape/NBC carrier would be carried underneath the kidney pouches, can’t recall ever seen it been carried on top, the respirator would have been attached to the belt, very rarely would you need the respirator separate from the webbing and of course the side would change depending on being left or right handed.
I joined my battalion a few years later after Lionheart & we still had full 58 patt the 1980s just saturated and overloaded it with NBC,IPK,waterproofs & poncho this is what led to the " daysack" being privately purchased & eventually issued with the PLCE,our way of wearing the respirator was you put you're webbing n first then the ressie pouch with its strap over the webbing on the left,the reason is if you were digging a trench you're ressie was at hand as you couldn't practically dig a trench with it on also handy for a shovel recce.i saw a number of modifications used mainly using the bum roll clips and spare straps being fashioned so the pouch could be attached to the top of the ammo pouch and to the yoke or kidney pouches whilst the main strap was folded away for use when you wasn't wearing the webbing.i understand infantry wore it this way the corps wore it on the belt.
I used that very kit, how the haversack was worn was very much down to unit choice. Some units it was left up to each soldier how they wished to carry it, others had SOPs. I carried it on my webbing as it all stayed together that way. Indeed I used another haversack instead of kidney pouches as you could get more kit/supplies in it and thus live out of belt kit longer without needing to have a day pack/bergan catch up with you!
In the OTC in 1989, we were issued the MK 4 helmet, ‘58 pattern webbing, S6 respirator and either MK 2 or 3 NBC suits. Our SOP was to carry the respirator case on the belt and the NBC suit in the poncho carrier (bloody nightmare trying to get it in!), but other TA units wore it as a haversack at the time.
Apart from wearing them in the gas chamber, the NBC suits were fantastic when we did exercises in the Winter, very warm 😉
I served with the Royal Irish Rangers during Lion Heart. I was a mortar officer for the Battalion. One thing I do remember was that while passing up the reinforcement chain I got fed everywhere it was great. We ended up in an ad hoc Airborne Bde Commanded by a Brig Jeeps I believe his name was. It was a really great exercise. Great memories.
Great to read your recollections, thanks for sharing. You may have seen I've interviewed veterans from various periods about their experience during their service, something I'm trying to expand upon. I wonder, might you consider sitting down for an interview via zoom, or similar at some point to get your memories of the exercise on record?
There was a smaller bit of ex lionhart in Northern Ireland mostly mostly in the trainings areas of Ballykinlar and Magilligan with the Ulster Defence Regiment and some roulment Battalions .
It was a different way of soldiering for the home service battalions,
Most infantry battalions as I remember had the respirator on the belt as using the strap it bounced up and down were in the belt we used bungee cords to keep the rattle down
Love the picture at the beginning. 6th Airmobile Brigade.
No...you don't use insulation tape for the field dressing, you use Gaffer tape. Gaffer tape rips from its edge so you can actually get it off when you need to (Yes, I was on Lionheart too))
I think like a lot of things at this period it varied from person to person. I'm in no way discounting your personal experience and method of doing this, just that other's I've spoken to who seved in the '80s did use electrical tape for this purpose.
Was in BAOR in late 60's with 3RGJ, the British Army kit was shockingly bad! But the Warsaw Pact kit was even worse!
A platoon of Australian Military Police were sent to BAOR for Ex Lionheart in 1984 not sure which RMP Coy they served with. In 1980 I went to BAOR with another platoon of Australian Military Police for Ex Crusader and we served with 101 Pro Coy at Paderborn and served throughout their area of operations, we flew to the UK (Chichester) via Hong Kong (we spent a week in HK and a week in Chichester) and then flew to Germany for the exercise, we were issued complete sets of British gear which we had to hand back before returning to Australia, including the socks. In 1982 I went back to BAOR on Ex Longlook an exchange exercise and went to 110 Pro Coy at Dusseldorf and participated in their parade in Xanten where they were given the freedom of the city, also spent time with 19 Spt Platoon RMP at Bielefeld on SOXMIS duties, had a great time on both occasions, a great bunch of people
Lionheart is as long ago now, as D-Day was then....Scary!!
Great Video......a bygone British Army.
The charcoal wearing off the inside of the smock onto your undergarments.... nice.
Tut tut, supposed to wear three layers of clothing underneath - we would chuck new suits in the washing machines in the troop line, so much comfier afterwards lol
Rugby tops also served..... still, they were / are better than era Soviet “ Slime Suits”.
NBC Suit, kept the Combats clean... 🤷♀️
Not when all of the charcoal lining came off! 🤦♂️😊
@@Quaker521 oh yes, I forgot about that bit...😀
One thing I find confusing with webbing of that time is the amount of kit carried that is not needed in a firefight from toothpaste to boot cleaning gear. Why?
It was what you needed to live in the field, like the old Small Haversack used in the 37 pattern webbing from back in the day..
The Soviet bloc had already moved to a Helmet, weapons, Respirator, NBC suit, ammunition, bayonet, water bottle and Entrenching tool was all you needed in the All arms mechanised assault.... your existence load was in the transport/ fighting vehicle.
The poncho and NBC suit would both fit into the bum role. And it would be below the kidney pouches
Always wore the respirator on lhs of webbing in my day. Gas kit was always carried in poncho roll. Noddy suits as they where known where warm in the winter! NBC was a big thing on all exercises in BAOR from 70/80s. Survival in an NBC environment? Zilch probably in sustained attack. S6 was not antidrag. Let’s not forget that the NBC training was primarily for surfing after we had used Tac Nukes!
Sorry but what does antidrag mean in relation to the respirator?
Warrior prototypes as well ,different rear door configuration.
The helmet did have an elasticated stockinette liner as my dads was during this period. I always thought it was a MK5
Just a Mk IV fitted with the 1956 Pattern liner, the mark designation did not advance officially.
I was on Lionheart
I remember every crevice being black because of the charcoal seeping out of the NBC suit and into the skin. We also had a lot of accidents and several fatalities due to heavy rain and vehicles overturning or sinking. That said, I was proud to be part of that huge show of strength against the Soviets.
i was in lionheart
No shovel or pick we always had two poncho rolls one for Cape one for NBC kit and respirator carried on web belt
Ex jock guard we wore our gas mask pouch attached to the belt
Gas mask???
did guys really wear kidney pouches?, most of the guys i knew [me included]used water bottle pouches ,trip flare boxes inside for your kit, poncho roll on top, anything to keep the weight down, in my unit while on exercise as long it was green it could go on your belt[CSM going episcopic not included lol]
The original footage of the exercise which I linked to shows many men still wearing kidney pouches.
the reason was for gas mask carried that way was take your webbing off gas mask still with you if in a queue for scoff with rifle in hand if getting fresh rations in the field hated it taking gas mask pouch of webbing pain 😁
Arrgh 58 pat webbing.....heavier than what you put in it when wet......large pack that used to chin the back of your helmet in prone position....any one remember the plastic Dpm non waterproofs you would sweat like a rapist....believe they were a regimental purchase deffo not NSN i remember we modded the poncho roll to sit above the kidney pooches. Great times..
Those helmets weigh enough without scrim etc poor sods using them damned if udo damned if.you dont