Upgrading to Glass Cockpit Garmin Aspen Dynon - InTheHangar Ep 58
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2019
- Have you considered upgrading from your analogue instruments? Do you have to go fully glass? Or can you buy one unit at a time? A&P/IA Bill Goebel returns to talk with Dan Millican (@off.taking) about advantages and disadvantages of the newer avionics.
Always lots of good information when you are in the studio. Thanks !
I'm only halfway through this interview and I'm riveted, already subscribed to HangaRatz! Great interview.
Another great one!
Just upgraded one of our flight school 172’s to the Dynon HDX1100 and it is amazing!! Very intuitive and cost effective! Highly recommend it
Good info - Thanks
Just added a Stratus transponder ADSB in and out to my 182 K, love it! My dealer said the exact same thing on where to go from there. Great information.
Nuavionics av30-c for your ai and dg and you can get rid of your vacuum system
Hey!!! Cool Aviation 101 t-shirt
Just bought a Piper cherokee 180 and added two G5’s when the vacuum pump failed during prebuy love them, flew it home a week or so ago and night flying with it is a dream!
Best bang for you buck first glass by far is an engine monitoring system before you do anything else...
I agree 100%
I went the incremental approach with an Aspen, JPI, external AOA, and an IFD 540. Works great, the issue is that transitioning to a more integrated glas like Garmin's G3X or dynon's skyview requires undoing installations which makes it harder to justify financially. Bummer!
Hi Dan Millican! Interesting episode. I'm getting an airplane relatively soon and was wondering about Avidyne vs. Garmin. The plane I'm looking at comes with a Garmin GTN 750. One thing I have noticed is that Garmin seems to be more and more of its own universe and either won't work with other brand systems or don't want to talk about it. In particular autopilots. I'd love to see an updated version of this episode as aviation gear seems to be changing faster and faster! I still haven't flown with anything other than "Steam Guages". Uless you count a portable Garmin AERA where I was lost or flying in a friends plane with a G-1000 system and I was TOTALLY lost!
Thanks
Thanks Peter! Yes, Garmin is really good, but they don't really like to play nice with others... that pretty much sums them up. We're going to be looking at some new stuff in some upcoming episodes of ITH over the next few months.
I upgraded to the Aspen E5 in my Cherokee 140 and I love it! Both my AI and DG were failing so the choice was rebuilt steam or new tech. I chose new tech.
I like glass, a little, sort of. A pair G5's would be nice. A nice Garmin GPS and good autopilot (STEC?) is on my list for when I buy an instrument training aircraft (an airplane is probably good to have as well :o) ) I don't like that VOR's are going away. There's too much junk rotating around the earth and it's not getting better (Elon Musk's flock of internet satellites comes to mind). At least a ground based VOR can be serviced. I won't miss vacuum instruments. The G1000 is probably something I could get used to but for now I'm not thrilled with them. Good video. This topic has been on my mind for a while.
I have a Mooney M20C and I sent pics of my current steam gage panel to a well known avionics shop. I expressed my wants and desires, then received back a quote for all Garmin glass. $116k. Now that will not work for a $70k airplane. But I am very interested in Dynon Skyview after reading articles and watching videos on it. I would probably have to go with Garmin nav/comma’s or another brand. I’m saving up.
I’m building a vans RV9A. In it, I’m installing a full Dynon platform and then adding a two Garmin navigator boxes for IFR.
@Javier Lopez thanks. It’s still work in progress and I’ve changed my mind on avionics a dozen times. Currently, I’m leaning on a full garmin package. I’m sure I’ll change my mind again and again. But it’ll be one or the other for sure.
@Javier Lopez since you have to stay home, I would say while in a pandemic, this would be the best time to build… there is nothing else to do!! 😉
I have a 1968 182 and just put in a new electronic international mvp50 p witch is amazing and also removed vacuum system and installed the nuavionics av30 c dg and ai and I think it is absolutely amazing. The look, the added features and the lack of the vacuum system not to speak of the much lower price than the g5. You get things like probles angle of attack, g load, density altitude and so much more. And your mechanic can install it so you don't get robbed by garmin.
Sorry uavionics
Ive been learning to fly in a sportcruiser with dynom avionics but sometimes I prefer the steam gages. I.e vertical speed indicator. I find it easier to look at a steam gage for that compared to a magenta bar that goes up and down on the dynon
Intersting. Even with my Aspen PFD1000 right in front of me, the one analogue I always quickly go to it the VSI. For some reason, I can't train my brain to find it on the Aspen (even though I know where it is).
@@TakingOff same here!!! A big gage with that sole purpose is easier to look at than trying to find a moving bar somewhere near the moving altimeter
I just ordered a full Dynon SkyView HDX with engine monitoring and ads-b in/out for my Skylane. I’ll eventually put the Dynon autopilot in once it’s STC’d, and then a Garmin GPS 175 for IFR, but I’ve only heard good things. SoCal Flying Monkey did a pretty awesome video overview about 6 months ago that’s definitely worth a view!
Is it certified for the 182 yet? I've been watching their product and it looks amazing
@@mpamsinc everything but the autopilot is certified for it. They’ve been looking to get the autopilot certified sometime early this year.
I've got a question: My C172 gets tied down outside and, especially in winter, there can be a bit of dampness builds up due to condensation. How tolerant of that would the glass instruments be compared with the old steam gauges?
Good info discussed. However, next time please add real $$ budget values. At minimum, $$ magnitude for each product segment to include equipment AND installation costs.
I thought about it when we filmed the episode-- the problem is talking cost is almost like asking "how long is a piece of string?" There are so many factors, the first answer to cost question is "well, it depends..."
The request made is to approach cost in same manner you discussed steam vs glass. The conversation covered general aviation’s basic upgrade conversion of legacy avionics. Using that very same example, what would be typical equipment cost and typical installation cost. Issue usual disclaimer - cost may vary depending on aircraft, complexity, equipment specifics, etc. For many legacy owner/operators, determining viable budget for first basic glass upgrade is a do, don’t or not yet decision. Think it’s worthwhile subject matter for your avionics discussions.
@@JoseRivera-lt2cc Okay, fair enough and great note. Next time we'll bring some numbers into the discussion. I see your point.
no one wants to discuss that a typical single G5 installation whether an AI or a DG replacement is 6-10k with equipment on a simple legacy aircraft like a Cherokee or a Skyhawk/150 and that’s of course considered a basic “glass” upgrade
On the question if an A&P can install the new instruments the answer was yes but you did not state if the pilot or mechanic could buy the equipment from say garmin or would the dealer want to send the equipment to a shop they approved to install the equipment. So could a A&P order the equipment from garmin and install it with no danger of losing the warranty ect. If you could have a more detailed program on installation from a A&P and what goes with that type of installation. I understand on used equipment it does not matter, its the ability to purchase and keep the warranty that's important.
Awesome video like always
All my experience has been with steam gauges. I'm dreaming of getting current and building an e-lsa. For weight and cost, there may effectively hardly be any viable option for anything other than glass. Fortunately experimental VFR (at least) planes don't require certified instruments. Basically same thing without paying for manufacturers liability insurance.... Attractive, but nostalgia makes it hard. Guess I'll just have to get over it if this comes to fruition.
What about the UAVIONIX AV-30-C PRIMARY FLIGHT DISPLAY - CERTIFIED units.
Need to discuss the use of IPAD based for the basic typ planes. Cessna 172 / 182 and the Pipers etc.
We shot part of an episode about that last week. Look for a video soon!
Mean time between failure is a big reason to go digital and solid state
In MHO, the only way to look at “getting your money back” by installing any updates before selling your plane is having the edge over a competitive seller’s plane.
Aerovonics AV-.30
Suggestion.. Maybe reach out to "310 Pilot", Kevin just put a bunch of Dynon in their Cessna 310. He would be a good interview. JMHO of course...
gtr1952 actually, I believe he’s got Garmin G5’s with Avadyne navigators. 😉
Might be good to reach out to him.
Buying a new piece of electronics for your airplane is like opening a can of worms. If you do this, then you need this. And if you need this, then you need that..... It just skyrockets. The smart thing to do is buy your plane with what you want in it. That is if you can find one.....
What is a DG gauge
Directional Gyro (heading indicator) 🙂
It's amazing how glass is changing the aviation world i still love having some of what's call steam gauges. For backup
Its possible there is no need but having just one glass panel is possible a big mistake.
It failed you loose Airspeed. Dg and AH all at once and loose control of all avionics systems only access through the display.
But the new systems are nice and give pilot's the avionics systems that were once only available to fighter aircraft or top end aircraft.
With all things new some will take it right out of the door and some Will stand back with caution to its 100% clear it's the only way to go.
Dynon and Garmin are both easy to install
@Terrie Cotham - if someone replaces all their steam gauges with a glass panel, is a backup system required?
@@edb7742
That depends on possible how the aircraft is use and if it has an MEL list
If it's a private aircraft. LSA / Exp then no . i have been building avionics and aircraft systems for a few years.
Some pilots will install backup gauges like Airspeed. & AH and others go totally glass with or with out a dual display
If it's a Cert aircraft like the 737 .DC10
, Lear Jet or. Light twin or SEL for hire then its under different rules
Take the aircraft that had a mix up on fuel and made a dead stick landing in Canada. It equipment was state of the art but pilot's lost. 90% of all flight instruments if remember right due to the batterys going dead after both engines fail due to lack of fuel.
The aircraft had a small generator that drop out of the aircraft and help supply power bringing the avionics equipment back on line.
Lot's of the new glass cockpits have backup battery systems to help get the aircraft down safe if main power failure
The glass cockpit unit's like the G3X or Dynon HDX1100 can have multiple displays that are independent of each other and can easily take over if one unit fail' s
All so other countries may have different rules of what the aircraft must have on board and working
Take the new ADS-B rules it will make flying much safer. And the new ELT'S now can send out it's GPS location to let S& R team's pin point the aircraft location. If it has GPS data sent to it
Hop this helps
@@terriecotham1567 Thank you
My panel is based on the DYNON suite (HDX) (except my NavCom is Garmin). Love Dynon. (Hate Aspen). Garmin? overpriced.
Is a touch screen, but have only used it to activate/change settings on the autopilot and transponder. Buttons fine for anything else. ok, if I want to pan the map page, that is also easier with touch, but could live without it if necessary.
Another (night and day) difference between Dynon and Garmin is the quality of Customer Service. Garmin isn't even in the same State, nevermind Ballpark as that provided by customer friendly Dynon
Apparently you never used, owned or even have been close to a Garmin instrument, but talking about it bad for no reason. First of all it costs less than the Dynon and offers more.
From what I've seen from the little I've had the opportunity to use Dynon, I'm very curious and interested in what they have to offer. If I were to do a big upgrade, I'd definitely look into them.
@@ernoovari8394 bullshit on both accounts
From what I have been reading and reviewing 90% of the articles state there is no reasonable expectation to recoup ones investment in an older Piper, Cessna or similar GA aircraft.
I would agree. 90% is a subjective number, but the principle is there.
depends on your buy in price. don't overpay for the airplane in the first place
first off,, planes are not an investment,,, they are a money pit
@@MAGApepe LOL \
What is the SDC acronym??
STC? Thats a supplemental type certificate for a modification on a certified aircraft. If you come up with a new part for a certified plane, say a new GPS, you will have to get a "STC" from the FAA to be able to market that product in certified aircraft.
@@TakingOff thank you for the clarification. Excellent video!
No mention of the G3X???
Commercial RC model plane electronics are far more advanced than a Garmin GA cockpit, and since they are so inexpensive a fully redundant suite can be installed including redundant sensors and power supplies. The software / hardware reliability question is a moot point. There are 10x more Arduplane / Pixhawk packages installed and running commercially during the past decade than Garmin avionics.
Just as an exercise, I'm not current and doubt I'll be able to get my medical back, but looking on Controller, I can get a 1980 V35B for about $190,000. It already has a GNS530/430 combination in it, but I would want to upgrade it. Kris, Baron Pilot, has really impressed me with the Avidyne stuff, so an IFD 550/440 combination to replace the 530/430, which since they're slide-in replacements should be less expensive than replacing the 530/430 with a GTN 750/650Xi.
This isn't inexpensive, but a 10" Dynon and a 7" Dynon, ADS-B In and Out pair with the transponder, autopilot, and Engine Monitoring System is only $22,000. Heck, that's far less than the cost of the Avidyne IFD550/440 combo, which is about $31,000. It is most certainly far less than a G500TXi in 10" and 7" (dual displays) along with a GFC500 and engine monitoring system.
So, for about $55,000, plus install (I said it wasn't inexpensive) you could have a completely modern, full function EFIS, Navigator, Autopilot and Engine Monitoring System. Trying to do that any other way is going to be closer to the actual purchase cost of the airplane! Dynon truly is the way to go on this, and if you can live with an older GNS530/430 combination (if you have one), you can save significant amounts of money still.
What four place airplane can you buy for a quarter of a million dollars that has that kind of capability? The closest you might find would be a mid-2000's SR22 G2, and even then, you would need to upgrade to the latest Entegra system, if you can even still get it. Or, at the minimum, replace the 430's with the 440's.
So, for what you get from Dynon, I think it's really the best deal on the market, at least right now.
E5
Steam gauges forever!! I MIGHT have a vacuum pump failure. Do I loose all instruments? No. Loose electrical, do I loose all instruments? No. Go all glass. Loose power? It's all gone. Have a glitch? It's all gone. Mechanical gauges took Lindbergh across the Atlantic, they guided our bombers in WWII, Korea, and Nam. Worked for all them, works for me
You do know with glass you keep a few steam in case of failure.
Too bad the NDBs and LORAN aren’t around anymore.
EFIS always has a battery backup or a redundant display. That’s for certification and refutes your first argument
Lose ALL your instruments? That’s what partial panel is for.
To have dual EFIS glitch or a single EFIS and required analog backups glitch, you’re dead no matter what you have.
Isn’t steam cheaper and more reliable?
Yes and no. Basic glass to repace the "6 pack" or new kit plane is competitive in price. Pilot static instruments are reliable but vacuum pumps and AI and DG are not that reliable.
I though the glass was at least twice as much.
We need multiple revolutions in GA. It's way too cuban car situation. Steam gauges really need to go away and really the planes they are in should go away too. This might offend a lot of people but a Cessna 172 should not exist. The model is older than a 57 Chevy. Imagine if 57 Chevy was the most common car today. That's how archaic GA is. It's beyond terrible. And you might think that 'glass' is forward thinking but it's not. They are still small and cluttered displays. There shouldn't be any compass rose, no tape or rollers. It should be 20+" of really well rendered synthetic vision and speed, altitude, heading are just small subtle numbers at the edge. No slot machine mimicry. So big and clear that it's very comfortable to fly by it in zero visibility. You'd be amazed at how wonderful it could be. Similarly the planes could be amazing as well. The Sharp Nemesis could do 500km/h at sea level with only a 100HP engine and not even remotely high tech. Imagine if inexpensive GA would enable us with such speeds. That's private jet capability. What if you put a turbo on it and flew it at FL300. Imagine going 650km/h. Aint no 172 gonna do that. And that's only piston.
Imagine 2 seaters at LSA weights with 2 tiny jets. Zipping vibration free in the heavens.
Unlike a lot of people that are in the same age category as an early 172 most function pretty well and I haven't heard anyone, other than you, stipulating that we shouldn't exist any more!!?? Rather Orwellian aren't you??
@@claudeelliott3993 you just don't think about it. You are conditioned to the prison of the sad state of GA. Would you want the Cuban car situation instead of cars in the west? would you want to be forced to drive a 1977 car? think a little.
It was my childhood wonder at all those wonderful gauges and switches that got me interested in aviation in the first place; now you want to take all that away. Something terrible has been lost in recent years.
Aspens sucking wind. Wouldn’t recommend until they figure their stuff out.
Alex Childs why does Aspen suck?
My big take away from this is don't ever spend a dime on glass avionics because they are still waaaayyyyyy over priced and will get cheaper in about 5 or 10 years.
I love this channel but what are you doing? I have been doing avionics for 36 years. I’ve been a pilot for 30 years. If someone asked me to go on a show and talk about engines I would laugh at them. Not that I don’t know much about engines, I suppose I do but why would you ask me? Why not ask an expert like the guy answering all the avionics questions? I cringed hearing some of those answers, as experts would cringe hearing me talk about engines. Please get experts in the fields that you are discussing. There was sooo much more that could and should have been said about the subject. for what it’s worth....John Stark.
Would love to have you come on and talk avionics. Next shooting is probably mid to late January in FW. Can you make it down?
Sure. Send me the particulars and I would be happy to come and talk avionics. I don’t do avionics because it’s a job, i do it because I love it, and flying.
All pilots are rich ......... or wish they were.
Dynon sales pitch....really...
Really? I haven't ever owned Dynon and just used it a couple of times in a Gyro. If anything, I'm more of a homer for Aspen.