For anyone who hasn't read Iwasaki-san's book, READ IT. It's far better than Memoirs could ever be. And yes, it's easy to see where he stole bits of her life and put them into the novel. He had no right to put her name into the whole deal when he said he wouldn't. And think about this... First-time writer versus the greatest geisha in the last century, well known the world over and respected beyond anything Golden will ever know. Mineko Iwasaki is owed far more than a simple apology, or even money. I don't think anything could really pay her (or all of the geisha world) back for his betrayal. If you have an interest in geisha, read her book. There's a lot more to be learned there, and it's a lot more interesting. She had some great, and funny, experiences. What I wouldn't give to meet her.
DeadlyChinchilla dunno how it is named in english, but in russian it's named "the real memoirs of geisha" www.amazon.com/Geisha-A-Life-Mineko-Iwasaki/dp/0743444299
I read it after watching the movie, it really was a better story. Although I wish her well, I am somewhat suspicious of her accounts. Hope I'm wrong though
That really isn't an excuse. Arthur Golden swore that he would not twist Mineko's story or tell her name, but he ignored that, betrayed her trust, and humiliated her. All for the sake of money. That's an awful, ghastly thing to do - no excuse. As for Mineko, that's a personal opinion which I won't decide for you. I will say this - Mineko Iwasaki is loyal, honest, extremely hardworking, and talented. I recommend reading her biography if you'd like to form an opinion on her.
after reading both books i can see the similarities between Mineko's bio and Golden's book. One can easily identify which ppl on Mineko's book matches the ones in Golden's. Also in a way he plaigerised her story as his own. No wonder she is not happy!!
After reading both books, I can see Mineko's life of greed. His books only hint at her story. She brags about herself as being the best in a hundred years and I find that very hard to believe considering the thousands of geisha all over Japan in those years. She is a snob and spoiled rotten. I didn't like her at all.
Nusrat M I did not side with Golden. If you have read both books, and analyzed them you can see where her story fits in around Golden's story. If you had studied English at school about analyzing a texts, you would know that. Even though your making a novel out of a real life story, and changing names of characters and etc, it's still plagiarism.
at the end of the day, golden's book is gross bc it wasnt his story to tell. mineko is allowing us a glimpse into that world. u dont like what u see/read, that up to u, but itd be grossly pathetic of u to side with golden
i dont mean you. i agree with u its plagiarism. doesnt matter if her story brags, u dont know anything about the "thousands of geishas", the little you know is based off of golden's book which is primarily as he himself said, off research from mineko and minekos book herself (im talking to pam). ur cool kiera.
I have read everything I could for the last 20 years about the geisha. She knew he was writing a book when he interviewed her. She wasn't writing a book at the time. She only wrote one to try to counteract her spilling the beans. It's not plagiarism in that case. She was just embarrassed that he thanked her in his book by name. Maybe he shouldn't have done that if he gave her the impression that her identity would stay hidden, but it's not plagiarism. But, her embarrassment and horror was that he mentioned her name. Thus, she retaliated with a vengeance. And her book made me dislike her even more.
Back in the mid 40s(after the hiroshima/nagasaki bombing), when Americans took over Japan, the soldiers would think that Geishas were prostitutes and so referred to them as "Geisha girls"...I feel sorry for Mineko after watching this video, being used only for an author`s profit in the books that mentions Geishas were harlots...sure from the 19th century old geezers would pay for having sex with a maiko under the age of 15 or so but that stopped in the 50s/70s and later on became illegal...some people dont understand that Geishas are artists and not prostitutes which is very upsetting for Geishas...I think Mineko deserves more than an apology from Goiden
Sex isn't illegal for a Geisha, just they now can refuse requests (what they do very, very often)... and have the right to marry, which was not allowed before. Otherwise, I'm totally agree with you.
High-class courtesans in Japan were called orian or tayū. The term mizuage is used differntly for geishas and orians. For orians mizuage is used as a financial arrangement for sex and for geishas mizuage is used for was a ceremony undergone by a Japanese maiko (apprentice geisha) to signify her coming of age. When the older geisha training her deemed the maiko ready to come of age, the topknot of her hair was symbolically cut. Afterward, a party would be held for the maiko.
Memoirs of a geisha is about a different woman not of mineko masako Iwasaki, Mineko told her own story in 2002 of how she became a geisha and how her life was growing up. She was never sold to a Okiya but had left her own home at the age of 5 and became a atotori which is a successor of a okiya to live up to its name. Her given name at birth was Masako Tanka. Iwasaki okiya was a famouse okiya in gion koubu
She actually wrote a book of the true story, which is very different. You can see where Golden drew some of his characters from, but he simply made it conform to the distorted western view of Geisha.
It's a shame, Geisha Are NOT prostitutes. I think in our current Society it is hard for some individuals to believe that women can be entertainers who's whole life revolves around Art in every way shape or form. A woman can entertain with out having to use sexual acts. And there are men out there who appreciate that.
She's a respectable woman and she released her own new novel-- HANA IKUSA. It's a very touching story based on her real experience becoming a geisha. I'm a male but after watching the real movie played by Inoue Mao, I want to become one! It IS tough job, they sell arts and not bodies, they don't show their skins but the spirit of their services.
Anyone who found this video interesting should definitely read Iwasaki-san's book, "Geisha: A Life." It is very interesting and a much more accurate portrayal of geisha than Memoirs.
It's still different, maikos (15-19 years old) are never alone, they are always accompanied by geishas (20+), exactly because there is an slight chance they get harrased, so they kind of take care of them. Still they are using kimonos, wich show very little skin, they are not wearing mini skirts or anything "super-sexy". As Mineko Iwasaki said "we don't sell our bodies, we sell our art", and I can tell you that every single artist does this regardless the country.
An art like this doesn't deserve to die, it must be preserved as a part of Japan's unique heritage. People need to be more educated about these women, when I researched them I never ever, ever though that life was so hard for them. It seems that women always get the short end of the stick in lef no matter what century. I think that the Japanese government should make schools give mandatory geisha classes and little shows to all girls so they could at least keep the art alive somewhere.
actually many people don't understand the real story behind mineko. there is much more than meet the eyes but people usually see what they want to see. I think Golden is a dick but i think Mineko was fully aware of what she was doing . She was angry at the karyukai and was out for revenge that is definitely sure that is why when she quit the job she vowed never to return. She wanted to hurt the karyukai, and breaking the vow of silence was the easy way. Being hated by other geisha is clearly not an issue for her and i seriously doubt geisha hate her. This is perfect PR for the karyukai , bad publicity is good publicity. Even her attitude toward the media is weird. No japanese people crave for exposure as she did, every time she went on tv or magazines she was just hurting the image of the karyukai even further. and her book was clearly her way to disguise lucrative interests behind a veil of not heartfelt apology. I like Mineko a lot and i was lucky enough to meet her, actually in new york, though i have lived over 20 years in Japan and am married to the son of an actual geisha from tokyo. I think mineko is very smart, very angry in general and very bitter because she has had a hard life and i think it left huge scars within her. She didn't have a childhood and we know how destructive it is for a kid to be depraved from the years of innocence. She might not have been sold but she was sort of given away by her parents to a family whose sole interest was to make Mineko a maiko then a Geiko and finally the successor of the Okiya, so their interest toward Masako (her real child name) was for lucrative purposes. One can only imagine how traumatic this may have been for mineko when she realized that. Also realizing that she was not the first of her family to meet that fate. Then she almost got raped when she was a very young teen which never helps in one's life. So her life was only working and studying relentlessly from age 6, (6 years old is when her training started) and she worked non stop until she gave up at almost 30 years old , she had already been tied to this world for over 20 years . Of course she was angry and who could blame her. Other geisha are pissed at her not because she spoke up but because she could . Mineko craved for freedom and freedom is power and the biggest power of all is to be able to tell what one wants . The other geiko in kyoto are usually stuck in this business for life, lucky if they marry a rich old guy and go from one form of servitude to the other and this usually happen when they are in their 40s and without such a great career behind them. Maiko and geiko do not have academic background in eduction, if they stop the job they will never find a good job in japanese society , they can just become high class hostesses or shamisen teachers maybe if they ever manage to get an accreditation from their own teacher (which basically never happens) or they end upo opening their maiko-geisha-for-an-hour make up and dress up studio , which is not so lucrative and regarded as an insult to the profession by the other working geiko and maiko of the community. But Mineko married young married well and more importantly married because she was in love, and this is a pill very hard to swallow for the other geiko of kyoto, so of course they will jump at the first opportunity to diss Mineko . Especially since she married for love , young a rich man, at the height of her career and being at age 25 the most successful Geiko for over a 100 years (you bet the other bitches were jealous) But Mineko never forgave the karyukai when she left for the lack of academic education for youg girls, the fact that they are depraved of the opportunity of another career if they ever chose to stop. Also the fact that though they become professional dancers and musicians they are never allowed to teach dance or music even after retiring. She also tried to reform the system so that girls could have a retirement pension plan and have a financial help from the government like any other profession in Japan once they reach 65 and decide to retire. Geisha do not have this luxury and that is why many work even when they are ways over 70 years old. Mineko is an amazing lady with a very difficult life . Golden was stupid, if i could meet Mineko again i would rather write a book about her as a woman as young girl rather than about Geisha alone.She is a truly fascinating character and the true story about geisha is really yet to be told. I hope she writes another book but this time about herself , not herself as a geisha
Mr. Golden sought out Iwasaki San because of her reputation. This is an environment of trust and the respect for that trust. It is difficult for some to understand that it is expected without question that this trust will never be broken.
Its called Geisha: A Life, & I just read it. Its Mineko Iwasakis full autobiography & truthfully, its more of a history book than a story which is how it differs greatly from Memoirs of a Geisha. It explains more the general idea & structure of a Geishas life rather than her own story, the beginning is most interesting I find.(Cuz it tells her story, which soon turns into steps a Geisha must take, which most people, who are already greatly interested in Geisha, already know.)
Mineko Iwasaki's book was amazing, I just finished reading it a while ago. I thought the relationships she formed within her okiya were compelling. I teared up a couple times, she had such an interesting life as a geisha/maiko. She's badass.
The book is called Geisha, a life. I actually bought it first, long before Memoirs of a Geisha. I was surprised to see her name in the back of his book. I had no idea something like this happened!
I've read the version she wrote, the true story. I find it fascinating and horrifying at the same time, that a man would lie about such a pure, intelligent girl.
In order to even enter a teahouse you must be well acquainted and accepted (and once you are, you can only be member to 1 Ochaya in a hanimachi) and if not, the only way to get in is being a guest of a member and be accepted/introduced. It is through these teahouses that you will have the honor and privilege of being entertained by these hard working, wonderful ladies. BUT there are certain hotels, and a "bar" in particular where you can request the entertainment of a Maiko or Geiko
When i went to Japan , i met Geisha and they are so different to the Book 'Memoirs of a Geisha' I even asked my Japanese family to take me to see Geisha i was expecting from learning from the book i'd get a "iie" (no) from the or a oh my gosh! but no they took me there & i met them and they also took me to meet a prostatute too they are both very kind &so different to the books interpretation of them.They are beautiful women both Geisha & Maiko.The Prostatutes have their Obi's tied at the front
I recommend checking out Liza Dalby and her book 'Geisha' - she's the only non-Japanese woman to have ever become a geisha (as far as I know). It is possible to do, just very, very hard.
This was really interesting. Thanks for posting it!! Poor Mineko, I can't believe the author would this to her. Doesn't matter who said what, he should have a good understanding of their culture and know what would offend them.
this was interesting to see because the movie and mostly the book is what made me dream of becoming a geisha! no matter what people think of them to me they are beautiful! I really feel heart broken towards Mineko and i really want to read her book!
You're hell right! That's what created this misconception, but my point is that after reading Golden's (hell be upon him) book, many people regard it as the gospel truth on Geisha and traditional Japanese culture. So what was once a common misconception is now a widespread belief. And of course, the movie based upon it further instated this belief amongst people all over the world (including Japanese) that Geisha sell themselves.
Why do people think Geisha are prostitutes? It's everywhere around me! In school, on TH-cam, and In this book! Arthur Golden thinks they are prostitutes. They are absolutely NOT!!!!!! Why can't people just get that?
i read the book in 2003 when i was a senior in high school and i did get the impression that geisha are prostitutes or close to it because of the part where she sold her virginity because it was such as big part in the book. the author had said that geishas are not prostitutes but some of the things she did were not much different from that of prostitutes. i love the book though and it has inspired me to research geishas and have much more respect for their culture.
Generally, yes. It takes such a deep understanding of Japanese language, manners and culture it would be extremely difficult to become a geisha if you aren't Japanese.
Grrr! And I really liked "The Memoirs of a Geisha"... Back when I was ignorant of the story behind it. I shall now go and ceremonially scribble out the name of Iwasaki-San out of my copy. P.S. her book is absolutely fascinating! I think it is my favorite book of all time.
I think what happened here is that Golden wrote a novel. He wrote a fictional story inspired by his perception from the interviews with Geisha and Mineko Iwasaki. I myself read the book and thought it was wonderful. However, since I grew up in America with African parents, I have no idea how accurate the details were. But Golden's mistake was mentioning Mineko in his acknowledgments, because then that gave the story a face, and made it real. I feel terrible for what that mistake has caused her.
"They even suggested, she claims, the most spectacularly Japanese solution. They said, 'go to the Ichiriki teahouse and commit suicide there!' ... Instead, she chose the all-American solution: a lawsuit" I had a pretty decent laugh
I've got it at home. In german it's called "Die wahre Geschichte der Geisha", but i just found it on Amazon. The english title is "Geisha of Gion: The Memoir of Mineko Iwasaki".
I have never said that all geishas are prostitutes! But there is a thin line between the two, because different levels of geisha, and Sayo's mizuage was definitely sold 4 times! Okay, she was just an "Onsen geisha." But the story is so similar, why shouldn't I believe the mizuage-selling? I still don't say that Geishas are prostitutes, just that Mineko doesn't tell us the truth.
@TimmShizzle You will love her book! It really grabs you and is very etheral yet also very earthy. I loved the part about the unwanted autograph she got from prince Charles!
the jackass claimed he recorded all there conversations despite claiming this he has never played one tape,i also believe she told him quite alot of things she shouldnt have i dont think she would have done so if not for the promise he made to not make her name known and to get his book published and make money he needed a real geisha and she was a well known geisha
I'm going to be devil's advocate and try to see Golden's side (this is NOT my firm opinion, just thinking). Mineko WAS willing to give info provided it wouldn't go back to her - maybe she thought MoaG wouldn't be popular. Golden says he didn't make a promise; when MoaG did well she said he had. He told the most exciting story he could think of with Mineko as his inspiration, but he didn't SET OUT to shame her. What she's been through is awful, but neither of them are innocent in this situation.
In the context you use "private", one would assume you're referring to one-on-one. However, maiko are never working without at least one geisha chaperone, often more. Likewise, it's extremely rare for the clients to be alone as well. They're called "parties" for a reason. Lastly, maiko in that setting are more likely to be dancing or performing, and doing very little conversing. They're there to learn. And they are assuredly better-guarded, and better-covered, than teenaged performers in the US.
I don't remember her having an affair on her husband. The man 'Toshio' was married though, and yes, I agree that she shouldn't have been with him while he was, weather he claimed he was going to divorce his wife or not. She should've waited until everything was finalized. She helped to fudge up the misconceptions of geisha there...
All you can do is read both books knowing that both are true or both are untrue. No one knows if one book is true or not so don't read hers after reading his and think her book is all truth because we don't know. Any one can write a book and say it's there story but how would you know. So don't bash him for his book then think hers is the better book, read both as if there just a stor then you'll enjoy both books
I think Mineko is so beautiful. I love Memoirs of a Geisha, and I think many people outside of Japan have fallen in love with Japanese culture including Geisha because of it. I'm sorry the Japanese felt wronged, but this is a case of he said/she said. I think whoever creates a secret is the root of the problem. If you don't want to be seen a certain way, then don't let there be any question. As for the comments saying the US or JP is bad, you can't generalize a country of individuals like that.
@FantasticFlutist Mineko's life was indeed a lot different than the characters Sayuri but you can see some semblances. Example, the character Hatsumomo could very easily be Mineko's older sister Yaeko. Auntie seems to play the part of Auntie Oima (I believe that was her name from Mineko's book). The Chairman could be the older actor that Mineko met as well. Character-wise, they have similarities but if you're just speaking of plot, then no. I'll check out the book you mentioned too ^_^
I'd like to know how people actually thought the Memoirs of a Geisha was a true story. The fact that the prologue's "author" has a different last name from the actual author should have been enough. I also wonder if such a big fuss would have been made if Golden kept his source anonymous....as he should have. I also wonder if Mineko's book might also be an attempt to repair her rep.
I loved Minekos Book, it was really interesting and shows much more the real world of a geisha than the athur golden book, which contains so much unrealistic sex things... I red mineko iwasakis book before the Memoirs of a Geisha, and she was a real geisha and never ever selled her body, Anyone who sais something different is just stupid. I'm thankful she did that book, because she offered us a view in this beautiful world.
I feel horrible that such a feud went on between the two. I decided to look up geisha/geiko videos since I'm again rereading Mineko Iwasaki's book 'Geisha, A Life.' I do admit though that Golden's book really did boarder a heck of a lot on hers, although after letting the cat out of the bag, I'm happy she came back with her own book. I would like to find a memoir or something from a regular class geisha though. That would be more insightful.
its such a shame arthur golden's book was such a good one.. a good one, but.. fictional. it is so sad because i had to read memoirs of a geisha for school, and educate my teacher even, that the mizuage concept he explained, was all wrong. Glad I cleared it up, however.
Thankyou for posting this. As much as I enjoyed the story Golden had written, mainly for Asian Culture aspect, I could not understand certain things he said Geisha did, and even convincing friends they are artists, not prostitutes...they said the book made Sayuri out to be more like the Mother in the Okiya (of the book) than anything else.
@LovelyLittleStar I agree with you, and you make a very good comment. I think Mineko is getting her knickers in bind, because in reality this isn't a BIG deal. There are both to blame.
In his book Golden appreciates Mineko contributions, but he clearly states that it's a NOVEL and that the main character is fictitious. Why then Mineko says that 90% of the novel it's her story? She's the one giving herself away.
Sorry, i know you posted your comment a year ago, but I'm just finding this video and I had to comment. Supposedly, says the book (so i dont know if it's true or not), the maiko hairstyle is known as "split peach" which, if you're a female, you can kind of guess what that's in reference to...
I think it takes a lot of balls to go through what geisha's go through &I feel so bad for what Mineko had to go through. But I do have to say that the movie was great Though I havent read the book.
The cat was already out of the bag. The lives of Geisha were shown brutally clear in the 1936 film "Sisters of Gion". It's considered the greatest Japanese film of the pre-war era. If anything, Golden's book, and the film made from it, were basically over romanticized soap operas. But, that's what makes some of the best fiction.
I expect they did make a deal to not reveal her name, but to promote her after as a famous Geisha. I'm interested in her book tho, but I must say his is excellent having read it.
Jesus. If you read Golden's book, in no way is the main character portrayed as a prostitute. (?) A prostitute is a sex slave. Golden's character is an extremely hard working, disciplined artist who is constrained by a set of rules. But the story differs so much from Mineko's own biography, it's difficult to see the how one could say more than, say, 50% of the story is similar. Golden wrote a fascinating novel. Mineko profited financially and received newfound fame.
By geisha standard, she may be a prostitute.That might be like saying that an American actress or singer who struggled and trained hard all the way still had to sleep with a producer to become a star.
@neytiri131 oh my god, she sued him also because he said they sold their virginity, in fact before mid 18's there was prostitute and courtisan (some kind of geisha who dances but also sleeps with customer and sell their virginity during mizuage) but in 1850 they separate courtisan ("oiran") and maiko geiko who sells their art and not their body, so they don't sell their virginity, now durting mieuage they change hair cut from momoware to ofuku that's all
ya and thats why im saying that the truth slips out even when u take extra measures for it not to... and what i meant was I admire the character of Sayuri cause the book is great but i don't really know about how i feel about Mineko.
I think people should stop hammering on Arthur Golden. She agreed to tell him and she was the one breaking her vow of silence. If that somehow got out then it was her fault for telling him in the first place. I admire Sayuri but I'm not sure about Mineko because she should know from her life as a Geisha that people have a way to find things out about you and sometimes the truth just slips when you don't want it too.
Not sure if anyone's made this observation yet but Mineko Iwasaki chose to be interviewed by Arthur Golden which was surely breaking the Geisha code regardless of whether she was named or not? I was hitherto unaware of this disagreement and it's sad there has been all this. I first read Memoirs and then Mineko Iwasaki's book, both are excellent although there was more of an authenticity to Mineko's obviously and loved all the photos. :)
I admit i am a fan of the novel Mr.Golden produced. I also saw Iwasaki-san's name at the acknowledgements in my book as well...So, pls kindly enlighten me with the truth..Tnx
For anyone who hasn't read Iwasaki-san's book, READ IT. It's far better than Memoirs could ever be. And yes, it's easy to see where he stole bits of her life and put them into the novel. He had no right to put her name into the whole deal when he said he wouldn't. And think about this... First-time writer versus the greatest geisha in the last century, well known the world over and respected beyond anything Golden will ever know. Mineko Iwasaki is owed far more than a simple apology, or even money. I don't think anything could really pay her (or all of the geisha world) back for his betrayal.
If you have an interest in geisha, read her book. There's a lot more to be learned there, and it's a lot more interesting. She had some great, and funny, experiences. What I wouldn't give to meet her.
Do you know the name of her book? I'd love to purchase a copy and read it.
DeadlyChinchilla dunno how it is named in english, but in russian it's named "the real memoirs of geisha" www.amazon.com/Geisha-A-Life-Mineko-Iwasaki/dp/0743444299
WhatUpIGotABigElk i love her book, you can read it in just one day. Very interesting to read!
The book is called Geisha of Gion by Mineko Iwasaki.
I read it after watching the movie, it really was a better story. Although I wish her well, I am somewhat suspicious of her accounts. Hope I'm wrong though
That really isn't an excuse. Arthur Golden swore that he would not twist Mineko's story or tell her name, but he ignored that, betrayed her trust, and humiliated her. All for the sake of money. That's an awful, ghastly thing to do - no excuse.
As for Mineko, that's a personal opinion which I won't decide for you. I will say this - Mineko Iwasaki is loyal, honest, extremely hardworking, and talented. I recommend reading her biography if you'd like to form an opinion on her.
I have read GEISHA, A LIFE by Mineko Iwasaki. I love that book on account of accuracy.
after reading both books i can see the similarities between Mineko's bio and Golden's book. One can easily identify which ppl on Mineko's book matches the ones in Golden's. Also in a way he plaigerised her story as his own. No wonder she is not happy!!
After reading both books, I can see Mineko's life of greed. His books only hint at her story. She brags about herself as being the best in a hundred years and I find that very hard to believe considering the thousands of geisha all over Japan in those years. She is a snob and spoiled rotten. I didn't like her at all.
Nusrat M I did not side with Golden. If you have read both books, and analyzed them you can see where her story fits in around Golden's story. If you had studied English at school about analyzing a texts, you would know that. Even though your making a novel out of a real life story, and changing names of characters and etc, it's still plagiarism.
at the end of the day, golden's book is gross bc it wasnt his story to tell. mineko is allowing us a glimpse into that world. u dont like what u see/read, that up to u, but itd be grossly pathetic of u to side with golden
i dont mean you. i agree with u its plagiarism. doesnt matter if her story brags, u dont know anything about the "thousands of geishas", the little you know is based off of golden's book which is primarily as he himself said, off research from mineko and minekos book herself (im talking to pam). ur cool kiera.
I have read everything I could for the last 20 years about the geisha. She knew he was writing a book when he interviewed her. She wasn't writing a book at the time. She only wrote one to try to counteract her spilling the beans. It's not plagiarism in that case. She was just embarrassed that he thanked her in his book by name. Maybe he shouldn't have done that if he gave her the impression that her identity would stay hidden, but it's not plagiarism. But, her embarrassment and horror was that he mentioned her name. Thus, she retaliated with a vengeance. And her book made me dislike her even more.
Mineko's book is so vivid and poetic. Thanks. As I've always been fascinated by Japanese culture, art and music.
I hope Mineko Iwasaki won that court case.
I want to buy her book.
she should have never spoken to him. But this betrayal forced her to write her own book. so...
Back in the mid 40s(after the hiroshima/nagasaki bombing), when Americans took over Japan, the soldiers would think that Geishas were prostitutes and so referred to them as "Geisha girls"...I feel sorry for Mineko after watching this video, being used only for an author`s profit in the books that mentions Geishas were harlots...sure from the 19th century old geezers would pay for having sex with a maiko under the age of 15 or so but that stopped in the 50s/70s and later on became illegal...some people dont understand that Geishas are artists and not prostitutes which is very upsetting for Geishas...I think Mineko deserves more than an apology from Goiden
Sex isn't illegal for a Geisha, just they now can refuse requests (what they do very, very often)... and have the right to marry, which was not allowed before. Otherwise, I'm totally agree with you.
Does anyone know if she won the lawsuit against him?
How rude of Golden to break his silence when she asked him to protect her anonymity.
High-class courtesans in Japan were called orian or tayū. The term mizuage is used differntly for geishas and orians. For orians mizuage is used as a financial arrangement for sex and for geishas mizuage is used for was a ceremony undergone by a Japanese maiko (apprentice geisha) to signify her coming of age. When the older geisha training her deemed the maiko ready to come of age, the topknot of her hair was symbolically cut. Afterward, a party would be held for the maiko.
The correct word for high class courtesans is oiran not orian.
I love her book!!!...."Geisha, a life"...really accurate and its one of my favorite.
Memoirs of a geisha is about a different woman not of mineko masako Iwasaki, Mineko told her own story in 2002 of how she became a geisha and how her life was growing up. She was never sold to a Okiya but had left her own home at the age of 5 and became a atotori which is a successor of a okiya to live up to its name. Her given name at birth was Masako Tanka. Iwasaki okiya was a famouse okiya in gion koubu
She actually wrote a book of the true story, which is very different. You can see where Golden drew some of his characters from, but he simply made it conform to the distorted western view of Geisha.
I am and remain a big Fan. Happy Birthday Mineko
It's a shame, Geisha Are NOT prostitutes. I think in our current Society it is hard for some individuals to believe that women can be entertainers who's whole life revolves around Art in every way shape or form. A woman can entertain with out having to use sexual acts. And there are men out there who appreciate that.
She's a respectable woman and she released her own new novel-- HANA IKUSA. It's a very touching story based on her real experience becoming a geisha. I'm a male but after watching the real movie played by Inoue Mao, I want to become one! It IS tough job, they sell arts and not bodies, they don't show their skins but the spirit of their services.
Anyone who found this video interesting should definitely read Iwasaki-san's book, "Geisha: A Life." It is very interesting and a much more accurate portrayal of geisha than Memoirs.
It's still different, maikos (15-19 years old) are never alone, they are always accompanied by geishas (20+), exactly because there is an slight chance they get harrased, so they kind of take care of them. Still they are using kimonos, wich show very little skin, they are not wearing mini skirts or anything "super-sexy". As Mineko Iwasaki said "we don't sell our bodies, we sell our art", and I can tell you that every single artist does this regardless the country.
An art like this doesn't deserve to die, it must be preserved as a part of Japan's unique heritage. People need to be more educated about these women, when I researched them I never ever, ever though that life was so hard for them. It seems that women always get the short end of the stick in lef no matter what century.
I think that the Japanese government should make schools give mandatory geisha classes and little shows to all girls so they could at least keep the art alive somewhere.
actually many people don't understand the real story behind mineko.
there is much more than meet the eyes but people usually see what they want to see.
I think Golden is a dick but i think Mineko was fully aware of what she was doing . She was angry at the karyukai and was out for revenge that is definitely sure that is why when she quit the job she vowed never to return. She wanted to hurt the karyukai, and breaking the vow of silence was the easy way. Being hated by other geisha is clearly not an issue for her and i seriously doubt geisha hate her. This is perfect PR for the karyukai , bad publicity is good publicity. Even her attitude toward the media is weird. No japanese people crave for exposure as she did, every time she went on tv or magazines she was just hurting the image of the karyukai even further. and her book was clearly her way to disguise lucrative interests behind a veil of not heartfelt apology.
I like Mineko a lot and i was lucky enough to meet her, actually in new york, though i have lived over 20 years in Japan and am married to the son of an actual geisha from tokyo. I think mineko is very smart, very angry in general and very bitter because she has had a hard life and i think it left huge scars within her. She didn't have a childhood and we know how destructive it is for a kid to be depraved from the years of innocence. She might not have been sold but she was sort of given away by her parents to a family whose sole interest was to make Mineko a maiko then a Geiko and finally the successor of the Okiya, so their interest toward Masako (her real child name) was for lucrative purposes. One can only imagine how traumatic this may have been for mineko when she realized that. Also realizing that she was not the first of her family to meet that fate. Then she almost got raped when she was a very young teen which never helps in one's life. So her life was only working and studying relentlessly from age 6, (6 years old is when her training started) and she worked non stop until she gave up at almost 30 years old , she had already been tied to this world for over 20 years . Of course she was angry and who could blame her. Other geisha are pissed at her not because she spoke up but because she could . Mineko craved for freedom and freedom is power and the biggest power of all is to be able to tell what one wants . The other geiko in kyoto are usually stuck in this business for life, lucky if they marry a rich old guy and go from one form of servitude to the other and this usually happen when they are in their 40s and without such a great career behind them. Maiko and geiko do not have academic background in eduction, if they stop the job they will never find a good job in japanese society , they can just become high class hostesses or shamisen teachers maybe if they ever manage to get an accreditation from their own teacher (which basically never happens) or they end upo opening their maiko-geisha-for-an-hour make up and dress up studio , which is not so lucrative and regarded as an insult to the profession by the other working geiko and maiko of the community. But Mineko married young married well and more importantly married because she was in love, and this is a pill very hard to swallow for the other geiko of kyoto, so of course they will jump at the first opportunity to diss Mineko . Especially since she married for love , young a rich man, at the height of her career and being at age 25 the most successful Geiko for over a 100 years (you bet the other bitches were jealous) But Mineko never forgave the karyukai when she left for the lack of academic education for youg girls, the fact that they are depraved of the opportunity of another career if they ever chose to stop. Also the fact that though they become professional dancers and musicians they are never allowed to teach dance or music even after retiring. She also tried to reform the system so that girls could have a retirement pension plan and have a financial help from the government like any other profession in Japan once they reach 65 and decide to retire. Geisha do not have this luxury and that is why many work even when they are ways over 70 years old. Mineko is an amazing lady with a very difficult life . Golden was stupid, if i could meet Mineko again i would rather write a book about her as a woman as young girl rather than about Geisha alone.She is a truly fascinating character and the true story about geisha is really yet to be told. I hope she writes another book but this time about herself , not herself as a geisha
Thanks for the info really interesting btw :D
Cat Peach piss off !
You shit on my comment on another video and you come thanking me here. You go fuck yourself cat peach .
Cat Peach whatev's
I hate how the old prints they showed at 5:14-5:25 were obviously courtesans, which geiko are not.
Mr. Golden sought out Iwasaki San because of her reputation. This is an environment of trust and the respect for that trust. It is difficult for some to understand that it is expected without question that this trust will never be broken.
I thought it was a beautiful book, and I felt for the main character.
Its called Geisha: A Life, & I just read it. Its Mineko Iwasakis full autobiography & truthfully, its more of a history book than a story which is how it differs greatly from Memoirs of a Geisha. It explains more the general idea & structure of a Geishas life rather than her own story, the beginning is most interesting I find.(Cuz it tells her story, which soon turns into steps a Geisha must take, which most people, who are already greatly interested in Geisha, already know.)
Mineko Iwasaki's book was amazing, I just finished reading it a while ago. I thought the relationships she formed within her okiya were compelling. I teared up a couple times, she had such an interesting life as a geisha/maiko. She's badass.
The book is called Geisha, a life. I actually bought it first, long before Memoirs of a Geisha. I was surprised to see her name in the back of his book. I had no idea something like this happened!
I've read the version she wrote, the true story. I find it fascinating and horrifying at the same time, that a man would lie about such a pure, intelligent girl.
In order to even enter a teahouse you must be well acquainted and accepted (and once you are, you can only be member to 1 Ochaya in a hanimachi) and if not, the only way to get in is being a guest of a member and be accepted/introduced. It is through these teahouses that you will have the honor and privilege of being entertained by these hard working, wonderful ladies. BUT there are certain hotels, and a "bar" in particular where you can request the entertainment of a Maiko or Geiko
The video itself is fuzzy, but great non the less. Having read both books, it was great to see this interview and the woman herself. Thanks
Her birthday was on the 2nd..Happy birthday Miss Mineko
When i went to Japan , i met Geisha and they are so different to the Book 'Memoirs of a Geisha'
I even asked my Japanese family to take me to see Geisha i was expecting from learning from the book i'd get a "iie" (no) from the or a oh my gosh! but no they took me there & i met them and they also took me to meet a prostatute too they are both very kind &so different to the books interpretation of them.They are beautiful women both Geisha & Maiko.The Prostatutes have their Obi's tied at the front
I didn’t know any of this, I thought it was a real story. I’m very surprised of what Golden has done. I’m gonna read Mineko’s bio 🤔
After I finish Memoirs I _have_ to pick up Mineko's book.
I recommend checking out Liza Dalby and her book 'Geisha' - she's the only non-Japanese woman to have ever become a geisha (as far as I know). It is possible to do, just very, very hard.
This was really interesting. Thanks for posting it!! Poor Mineko, I can't believe the author would this to her. Doesn't matter who said what, he should have a good understanding of their culture and know what would offend them.
Exactly, what was he thinking?
this was interesting to see because the movie and mostly the book is what made me dream of becoming a geisha! no matter what people think of them to me they are beautiful! I really feel heart broken towards Mineko and i really want to read her book!
You're hell right! That's what created this misconception, but my point is that after reading Golden's (hell be upon him) book, many people regard it as the gospel truth on Geisha and traditional Japanese culture. So what was once a common misconception is now a widespread belief. And of course, the movie based upon it further instated this belief amongst people all over the world (including Japanese) that Geisha sell themselves.
Why do people think Geisha are prostitutes? It's everywhere around me! In school, on TH-cam, and In this book! Arthur Golden thinks they are prostitutes. They are absolutely NOT!!!!!! Why can't people just get that?
I think as punishment, all the money form all the books should go to the Geisha.He shouldn't be aloud to keep one cent!
i read the book in 2003 when i was a senior in high school and i did get the impression that geisha are prostitutes or close to it because of the part where she sold her virginity because it was such as big part in the book. the author had said that geishas are not prostitutes but some of the things she did were not much different from that of prostitutes. i love the book though and it has inspired me to research geishas and have much more respect for their culture.
Generally, yes. It takes such a deep understanding of Japanese language, manners and culture it would be extremely difficult to become a geisha if you aren't Japanese.
Grrr! And I really liked "The Memoirs of a Geisha"... Back when I was ignorant of the story behind it. I shall now go and ceremonially scribble out the name of Iwasaki-San out of my copy.
P.S. her book is absolutely fascinating! I think it is my favorite book of all time.
I think what happened here is that Golden wrote a novel. He wrote a fictional story inspired by his perception from the interviews with Geisha and Mineko Iwasaki. I myself read the book and thought it was wonderful. However, since I grew up in America with African parents, I have no idea how accurate the details were. But Golden's mistake was mentioning Mineko in his acknowledgments, because then that gave the story a face, and made it real. I feel terrible for what that mistake has caused her.
I feel so bad for her!!! She really feel bad. she's beautiful as well. My love goes out to her x
"They even suggested, she claims, the most spectacularly Japanese solution. They said, 'go to the Ichiriki teahouse and commit suicide there!'
...
Instead, she chose the all-American solution: a lawsuit"
I had a pretty decent laugh
Golden betrayed Mineko’s trust. Very dishonorable.
i love geiko and maiko!!! soooooooo beautiful!!
I've got it at home. In german it's called "Die wahre Geschichte der Geisha", but i just found it on Amazon. The english title is "Geisha of Gion: The Memoir of Mineko Iwasaki".
I have never said that all geishas are prostitutes! But there is a thin line between the two, because different levels of geisha, and Sayo's mizuage was definitely sold 4 times! Okay, she was just an "Onsen geisha."
But the story is so similar, why shouldn't I believe the mizuage-selling? I still don't say that Geishas are prostitutes, just that Mineko doesn't tell us the truth.
@TimmShizzle You will love her book! It really grabs you and is very etheral yet also very earthy. I loved the part about the unwanted autograph she got from prince Charles!
It's "Geisha, a Life" in the US and "Geisha of Gion" in the UK. It's a pretty amazing book actually...
the jackass claimed he recorded all there conversations despite claiming this he has never played one tape,i also believe she told him quite alot of things she shouldnt have i dont think she would have done so if not for the promise he made to not make her name known and to get his book published and make money he needed a real geisha and she was a well known geisha
I think so too...
I'm going to be devil's advocate and try to see Golden's side (this is NOT my firm opinion, just thinking). Mineko WAS willing to give info provided it wouldn't go back to her - maybe she thought MoaG wouldn't be popular. Golden says he didn't make a promise; when MoaG did well she said he had. He told the most exciting story he could think of with Mineko as his inspiration, but he didn't SET OUT to shame her. What she's been through is awful, but neither of them are innocent in this situation.
excellent documentary. thanks for uploading this.
Arthur Golden is sneaky
In the context you use "private", one would assume you're referring to one-on-one. However, maiko are never working without at least one geisha chaperone, often more. Likewise, it's extremely rare for the clients to be alone as well. They're called "parties" for a reason. Lastly, maiko in that setting are more likely to be dancing or performing, and doing very little conversing. They're there to learn. And they are assuredly better-guarded, and better-covered, than teenaged performers in the US.
I don't remember her having an affair on her husband. The man 'Toshio' was married though, and yes, I agree that she shouldn't have been with him while he was, weather he claimed he was going to divorce his wife or not. She should've waited until everything was finalized. She helped to fudge up the misconceptions of geisha there...
Yeah, it's called 'Geisha of Gion' by Mineko Iwasaki (Rande Brown is the translator)
All you can do is read both books knowing that both are true or both are untrue. No one knows if one book is true or not so don't read hers after reading his and think her book is all truth because we don't know. Any one can write a book and say it's there story but how would you know. So don't bash him for his book then think hers is the better book, read both as if there just a stor then you'll enjoy both books
I think Mineko is so beautiful. I love Memoirs of a Geisha, and I think many people outside of Japan have fallen in love with Japanese culture including Geisha because of it. I'm sorry the Japanese felt wronged, but this is a case of he said/she said. I think whoever creates a secret is the root of the problem. If you don't want to be seen a certain way, then don't let there be any question. As for the comments saying the US or JP is bad, you can't generalize a country of individuals like that.
It doesn't matter what is behind it.
Just enjoy the smiles and company, and not dig too deep for answeres.
@FantasticFlutist Mineko's life was indeed a lot different than the characters Sayuri but you can see some semblances. Example, the character Hatsumomo could very easily be Mineko's older sister Yaeko. Auntie seems to play the part of Auntie Oima (I believe that was her name from Mineko's book). The Chairman could be the older actor that Mineko met as well. Character-wise, they have similarities but if you're just speaking of plot, then no.
I'll check out the book you mentioned too ^_^
I'd like to know how people actually thought the Memoirs of a Geisha was a true story. The fact that the prologue's "author" has a different last name from the actual author should have been enough. I also wonder if such a big fuss would have been made if Golden kept his source anonymous....as he should have. I also wonder if Mineko's book might also be an attempt to repair her rep.
I'm suspicious of both goldens and her story
They entertained women too! God the framing of this is so stereotyped
I loved Minekos Book, it was really interesting and shows much more the real world of a geisha than the athur golden book, which contains so much unrealistic sex things... I red mineko iwasakis book before the Memoirs of a Geisha, and she was a real geisha and never ever selled her body, Anyone who sais something different is just stupid.
I'm thankful she did that book, because she offered us a view in this beautiful world.
I feel horrible that such a feud went on between the two. I decided to look up geisha/geiko videos since I'm again rereading Mineko Iwasaki's book 'Geisha, A Life.' I do admit though that Golden's book really did boarder a heck of a lot on hers, although after letting the cat out of the bag, I'm happy she came back with her own book.
I would like to find a memoir or something from a regular class geisha though. That would be more insightful.
geisha is not a prostitute.
oiran and yuujyo is a prostitute.
Geisha plays the japanese dance and musical instruments.
its such a shame arthur golden's book was such a good one.. a good one, but.. fictional. it is so sad because i had to read memoirs of a geisha for school, and educate my teacher even, that the mizuage concept he explained, was all wrong. Glad I cleared it up, however.
Thankyou for posting this. As much as I enjoyed the story Golden had written, mainly for Asian Culture aspect, I could not understand certain things he said Geisha did, and even convincing friends they are artists, not prostitutes...they said the book made Sayuri out to be more like the Mother in the Okiya (of the book) than anything else.
Thank you. I will try to find it and read it. It's such a unique style of life. Very interesting to know details.
Interesting.
I'm so in awe of geisha and Miss Iwasaki. I red hers and Golden's book.
Maybe 1 day I will get entertained by geiko.
SO TRUE!
Prositutes in Japan were called something different.
These women were trained as ART.
Yes there are Geisha today but only about a thousand left
That's very helpful, I didn't know about Fukutaro or Ms. Graham! Thank you. :)
I have read both books
wow i really liked this book i cant believe this..
Have any of you read her book?? It really touched me.
By the way, there is an adaptation in manga of it, called "Kurenai nihofu" 「紅匂ふ」
@LovelyLittleStar I agree with you, and you make a very good comment. I think Mineko is getting her knickers in bind, because in reality this isn't a BIG deal. There are both to blame.
In his book Golden appreciates Mineko contributions, but he clearly states that it's a NOVEL and that the main character is fictitious. Why then Mineko says that 90% of the novel it's her story? She's the one giving herself away.
Sorry, i know you posted your comment a year ago, but I'm just finding this video and I had to comment.
Supposedly, says the book (so i dont know if it's true or not), the maiko hairstyle is known as "split peach" which, if you're a female, you can kind of guess what that's in reference to...
it's because in japn, they love "youth" "cutenesse" kawai innocence.. you have the same thing when old otaku loves very young idol (singer, model)
@ClockworkTowers Wow such beautiful verses, may i know where they are from ?
@DraculasHotBride Would you mind me asking what the title of the book is and if it's in English?
I think it takes a lot of balls to go through what geisha's go through
&I feel so bad for what Mineko had to go through.
But I do have to say that the movie was great
Though
I havent read the book.
The cat was already out of the bag. The lives of Geisha were shown brutally clear in the 1936 film "Sisters of Gion". It's considered the greatest Japanese film of the pre-war era. If anything, Golden's book, and the film made from it, were basically over romanticized soap operas. But, that's what makes some of the best fiction.
I expect they did make a deal to not reveal her name, but to promote her after as a famous Geisha. I'm interested in her book tho, but I must say his is excellent having read it.
Jesus. If you read Golden's book, in no way is the main character portrayed as a prostitute. (?) A prostitute is a sex slave. Golden's character is an extremely hard working, disciplined artist who is constrained by a set of rules. But the story differs so much from Mineko's own biography, it's difficult to see the how one could say more than, say, 50% of the story is similar. Golden wrote a fascinating novel. Mineko profited financially and received newfound fame.
By geisha standard, she may be a prostitute.That might be like saying that an American actress or singer who struggled and trained hard all the way still had to sleep with a producer to become a star.
Sayrui is a fictional character loosely based on a real geiko, Mineko Iwasaki. I do recommend reading her book "Geisha, a Life".
better yet read mineko's book herself.. It's called Geisha, A Life. It's riveting... i could not put it down
@neytiri131 oh my god, she sued him also because he said they sold their virginity, in fact before mid 18's there was prostitute and courtisan (some kind of geisha who dances but also sleeps with customer and sell their virginity during mizuage) but in 1850 they separate courtisan ("oiran") and maiko geiko who sells their art and not their body, so they don't sell their virginity, now durting mieuage they change hair cut from momoware to ofuku that's all
ya and thats why im saying that the truth slips out even when u take extra measures for it not to...
and what i meant was I admire the character of Sayuri cause the book is great but i don't really know about how i feel about Mineko.
I think people should stop hammering on Arthur Golden. She agreed to tell him and she was the one breaking her vow of silence. If that somehow got out then it was her fault for telling him in the first place. I admire Sayuri but I'm not sure about Mineko because she should know from her life as a Geisha that people have a way to find things out about you and sometimes the truth just slips when you don't want it too.
Has her book been translated into English? I'd love to read it.
LMAO! You just made my day. Thank you and I agree.
Komomo-san from Gion Kobu at 10:32. She's the only Geiko I know of that speaks English. Her voice sounds so sweet!
Maiko Kikunami of Nara also speaks English ^^
Not sure if anyone's made this observation yet but Mineko Iwasaki chose to be interviewed by Arthur Golden which was surely breaking the Geisha code regardless of whether she was named or not?
I was hitherto unaware of this disagreement and it's sad there has been all this. I first read Memoirs and then Mineko Iwasaki's book, both are excellent although there was more of an authenticity to Mineko's obviously and loved all the photos. :)
I admit i am a fan of the novel Mr.Golden produced. I also saw Iwasaki-san's name at the acknowledgements in my book as well...So, pls kindly enlighten me with the truth..Tnx
Oooo what is her book called? I'd like to read it and get her side of things.
Very interesting!!!
Yes.