Behringer Model D Poly-Chain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2018
- Poly-chaining multiple Model-D's together has been a dream of mine for a long time and finally I could not resist any longer. In this video I share my experiences and hopefully give a few insights into the Model-D's themselves as well as poly-chaining in general.
Note: This is an edited and improved version of a video I posted about two months ago. It's a bit more streamlined, still rather long at 40 minutes but not as long as the original was! - เพลง
With this setup you can do the "Wish You Were Here" horns, originally multi-tracked Minimoogs to achieve the polyphony.
Awesome video. I watch just about everything Tim posts but this and the dual Dreadbox Typhons have to be my favorite. It can get depressing to watch great videos for hardware I would never ba able to afford. Tim showing how to use cheap good gear in complex ways opens a door for musicians that may never have the money or success to get to use top of the line gear. Creators like Tim Shoebridge, Loopop, and Ben Jordan are valued mentors to the next generation of musicians.
I´d take a good technical demonstration like this over any "pure flex - plant in the background - pseudo-intellectual - hidden infomercial" anytime.
I appreciate your thorough explanation of both implementations, and the benefits of the CV/GATE pathway over the MIDI offering. Easy to understand and follow, as usual. All the best, Tim.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this. The order you explained it and also the way you explained it was very clear and made sense to me. Nice job!
Thanks, Tim! You just made me feel a whole lot better about having ordered that Yarns module the other day.
VERY informative, love your presentation, pace, voice - just a great watch and it's provided much food for thought. Thank you. Now subscribed.
Fantastic channel! Very well done; this helped a lot and the way you explain it is just great. Thumbs up.
Really in depth! Nicely done.
Behringer should make a Memorymoog next.
Das Bemoryboog … Ist gut!
They're making a Yamaha CS80...I can't wait
Thanks for this good clear explanation of some complicated concepts.
Behringer have just released a software tool and update to fix the note allocation in poly mode.
Kurt Klingklang That’s good to know, and very comforting that they pay attention to videos like this one :)
@sbmphr Has the decay/release forwarding been fixed for polychaining?
Never too long when the content is very interesting and of importance ;-)
This was so incredibly helpful with my setup, THANKS! Great video!
Also - which setting are you playing through on the Yarns?
Thanks for the thorough overview.
I have daisy chained synths, since MIDI became available. Fantastic video Tim, great explanation of this. 🎹 🎶 😎
I really love your videos!
Tim, this was the best.....thank you.
Opening music is lovely
great video, all 40 odd minutes - thanks!
Great demo! Thank you :)
Excellent Video well explained - Thanks
Iv'e been down this road with 4 Oberheim SEM's (2 vintage and 2 re-issues) and Yarns. While It was fun and exciting at first ..not to mention very expensive, I realized I was spending too much time just to get a basic sound and the tuning just right for a simple part or passage within an arrangement. The quirks of each SEM ,by the time it was used in a track, It might as well be an OB6.
Thanks for sharing. I was looking into this subject of creating my own full-analog poly opposed to buying a premade, given the price will roughly be the same, while double the fun. One module i came across, which was also pretty inexpensive in comparison to MI Yarns, is "Hexinverter Mutant Brain". It comes with 4 outs and 8 triggers. Doesn't have a fancy mode switch or display, but you can reprogram it to various configurations via MIDI and a web-interface. Maybe a cheaper alternative.
I've settled on a Expert Sleepers ES-3 and i think i will now see if i could do a similar poly-config with a computer as "brain". I love experiments like this. :)
cellrok You are very welcome. The hexinvertor sounds like a beast, I will definitely check it out.
That's serious setup.
This is a constant change for me. Though now I’m pretty satisfied with my studiospace. Haven’t shown it yet on my channel but soon …
Best thing often is to tear it all down and begin from the beginning again.
Great video and explanations of the pros and cons. It’s a shame that Behringer’s polychain mode is flawed, you’d think they’d want to address this.
I have a Midimuso CV12 which has a 4 synth polychain mode and is really cheap (£35ish) diy or a pre-built version is available. Reaper software can achieve the same result with a free plugin. There’s also a full diy option, Midigal by Midisizer which is based on the Mutable Midipal.
I quite like the idea of polychaining 4 different synths in the never ending search for happy accidents.
Forgot to mention the CV OCD device by Jason Hotchkiss - completely user configurable, it can even mix v/octave and Hz/volt so you could include a Korg MS20 within a multi-synth polychain.
Ahh the Force Majeure vibe is strong in this one :D
Thanks for pointing out the limitations of the Behringer poly chain implementation. If I recall correctly using Yarns in the way you have means the Model D's do not respond to velocity. So like an original minimoog in that respect but not like the moog reissues which can be patched for velocity sensitivity of both filter and amp. I think you can send two notes from Yarns along with velocity information but no more than that.
Also check out the MidiGal device. It's brilliant for this type of midi redistribution and the "round robin" or cyclic voice allocation as you say.
Very interesting! 😀 I suscribed! 👍
Wicked synth powers🎹🤟
Grazie a te!
hey Tim , can you show your studio one day , perhaps present your synthesizers , share some stories how and why you bought it , ohh and what is that furniture below poly chained D's ?!
thx
So funny that you own these units and a Moog one haha
I just got another 1 so now I have 2. I keep hitting 3 finger chords like I really have 3🤣🤣. Thank you for this video. Quick question. I have the same keystep. What could the cv in and out gates provide for me with just 2 model D’s? Thank you sir
Thanks for saving me a bunch of money.
Relative newbie to synthesis here - I’m not sure if you mentioned the word during your explanation (long video so I’m not going to watch twice!) but when you were patching out the contours to the other synths would that effectively make the system paraphonic? Obviously full polyphony is usually preferable, but indeed there’s something to be said for not having to tweak each filter/envelope section to find a good patch. I was wondering about a way around the “bugs” that you found here - instead of sending the first synth’s contours to the others, could you instead send each of the other synth’s pre-filter mix output into the pre-filter mix input of the first, effectively bypassing all filters and envelopes except that of synth 1, so that all 12 oscillators are routed through a single filter/contours, getting a fairly unified sound? If the external input of each D is routed before its mix output then in theory you could daisychain all four without splitters I think?
Obviously key presses for the other synths wouldn’t trigger the contours without some sort of gate patching, but as it’s paraphonic it’s only really good for block chords anyway. The other issue I can imagine is that the filter cutoff keyboard following would only work for one note, so any wider chords played might not sound great? As stated it could be useful for quickly finding the sound you want with block chords before matching the settings on the other synths and hooking up the proper polyphony.
User demands on the retro synth clones evolve year by year in a parallel way to the original instruments, seems like we're in the mid-70s by now, as we're Re-inventing the Oberheim 4 voice..
Fantastic video. All of us with Model Ds that don't yet have eurorack gear have been dying to know how well this works. This video sure helps make the decision of whether or not to go this route easier. Personally, I'm agonizing over whether to get a Peak or 3 more Ds and the necessary eurorack gear. I see pros and cons of both. Clearly the Peak would be vastly easier to deal with and more flexible but as one who loves the sound of the D, I'm willing to put up with some hassle. Really hard decision.
I'm really curious to know if Behringer's most recent update resolves any of the issues you've identified. You've been incredibly generous with you time as is, but a follow up video would be fantastic. Consider this an official request!
Thanks very much, and request officially received! ;) I have one more Erebus video to make and some work commitments but I will definitely see what I can do...
@@TimShoebridge Please stop! If you keep this up, I'm going to have to buy an Erebus too! I'm going to end up losing my house!
@@TimShoebridge Given that I have the self control of a five year old, I went out and got 2 more Model Ds tonight. One failed during the firmware update and appears to be bricked. Argh! My original and one of the new ones updated fine so I could test a couple of things. They clearly operate in a 'round robin' fashion now. I set the synths to vastly different settings and played a single note over and over. Each synth is definitely taking turns playing the note. I believe this resolves the retrigger issue. The envelopes appear to trigger completely independently now. I need to rewatch your video and try to recreate some of the other issues (and go back and get another Model D - and maybe a 4th :) ). So far, even two of these together is truly glorious. If you're interested, I'll report my results. Otherwise, I'm happy to wait and see how you make out.
@@geebake I'm curious to hear the results! Especially with the price of these 2nd hand!
@@ericpeters0n , the firmware update is fantastic. It adds its own 'round robin' style voice allocation algorithm and its great. Like Tim Shoebridge, I have a Yarns module that I used to drive my four Model Ds till the update. I haven't used it since. All in all, several Model Ds, in my opinion, make a fantastic poly synth now.
There are still issues. Tuning stability is still a problem but I can live with it. And, naturally, if you want to change something across all the voices, you have to turn knobs on all the Model Ds. I actually really like this, Each voice tends to have a very slightly different character and it adds depth.
The new Poly D looks great. Tim Shoebridge seems to really like it and I trust his opinion. Big difference between four polychained Model Ds and a Poly D though. Four voices of genuine polyphony vs 4 voices of paraphony. Polychanined Model Ds are clearly a bigger pain in the butt to set up and use, but the depth is inspiring. You can get massive sounds that lots of other poly synths can't get because of the slight variations in voicing.
As you mention, Model Ds are dirt cheap used now. I can't think of a reason for anyone interested not to get a few, even if you have a Poly D.
Can one synth be used like a midi controller over midi to affect the other synths, so whatever knob I turn on the first synth goes to my DAW and then is sent to all the others?
So in this setup with the MIDI to CV, can a single synth control the filter cutoff/LFO with a twist of a knob or do those have to be set on each synth?
27:45 Mentions left then motions to the right with his right hand. I do that type of thing occasionally. lol
Todo explicado tan claramente que sin saber mucho inglés entendí todo. Con esto vemos algo suoerior al poly d. Me gustaría hacer algo similar, tal vez con el vermona qmi
Nice video. Thanks the details. Side note, Uli Behringer pronounces his last name "Bear Rin Jer".
That would make 0 sense as he is swiss.
16:30 You've re-discovered Paraphony..!
Now I know where JHS Pedals got their chord intro to their videos, at 02:33 you played the same chords and patch.
That's more likely a coincidence. I've heard tons of similar progressions being played with similar patches in demo videos. There's likely something to do with the layout of the keyboard and the layout of a synth mixed with a certain taste that leads to that same progression (or similar ones) using the same type of chords and similar patches being repeated. There are tons of examples of that on other instruments where different players end up coming up with the same little chord progression without there being a need of imitation to explain it.
Kind of off topic but since you have all your model Ds in a eurorack case, had to ask. Can you still modify midi channel of model D when in eurorack or is it fixed at midi channel 1. I put my Nuetron and model D in eurorack together and both are receiving on midi channel 1 only. Since they are both mono synths I just daisy chained the midi from model D through into the Nuetron midi in port.
Hi, I have not tried this myself but yes you can still change the MIDI channel but you need to send it a sysex command. There will be a list of available sysex commands in the user manual somewhere.
@@TimShoebridge Thanks for the reply. Let me check thst out. Prob could use midiox to send command. Wonder if it would stick after being powered down. Kind of silly to lose dipswitvh when pulling from case and then no way to change midi channel. If i can get it to work, will respond with update.
Can I polychain it with the neutron and crave ?
What was your setup like prior to acquiring the model d’s and peak that you use now? I’m curious
Hog Tramp I have to admit that I do own a lot of synths. The Peak became a centre-stage workhorse for me for a while, before acquiring it I used a combination of digital and analogue synths (Waldorf, Novation, Korg, Roland and Dreadbox). The Behringer Model D was a must-have purchase, I always wanted that Moog sound but could never justify the expense of the original. In terms of mono synths, I already was using various semi modular synths plus eurorack gear and had a Moog Sub Phatty (but only 2 VCO’s)
Is there a way to "fool" this via midi channels to have Moog synths with midi be the 2nd, 3rd, 4th synths?
Hey! I don't see Behringer Neutron or pro1 in your hands. Can you say something about them? Or they just not worth any attention comparing them to others what you own ?
i could be wrong but judging from the behaviour of my 3 model Ds it seems that they DO in fact "round robin" in polychain mode now, I suppose it must've been in a firmware update?
Was this adressed in new software updates?
What watch are you wearing
There's a Mac-only App in the App Store called "Polymer" that's highly configurable, incl. the round robin configuration you've mentioned, MIDI-only implementation.
Wow. Will download it ASAP. Thanx.
Is there a problem keeping them all in tune?
Yes this is an issue, probably the biggest issue of all in terms of the practicality of polychaining. Having to isolate each synth in turn and then isolate each VCO within each synth in order to tune it becomes very repetitive and laborious :(
@@TimShoebridge -- That's what we DON'T pay for with the D's very attractive pricing -- autotuning. Probably why I won't be getting more than just the one I've already got. I would need an assistant (whom I cannot afford) just to tune the little buggers.
But wow, what gorgeous sounds that D quartet of yours can produce! Love those sounds. So musical.
Unfortunately I can't find a poly MIDI to cv standalone. could you possibly link one to me or tell me the name of it.
Did you find the standalone model? I'm looking for the same things but I didn't find it yet. Thank you
Great job but now Behringer has the Poly D :-o what now with your 4 x mono D synths
Rik Vanhoenacker I sold all but one of the Model D’s a while ago. Individually re-tuning 12 oscillators repeatedly was just too much hard work! The Poly D looks nice but paraphonic synths have restrictions on how you can play them and remember that each note you hear will only be playing a single oscillator
@@TimShoebridge unless you use Uni mode
@@TimShoebridge I hear you on that dude, fuck all that tuning. It's such a bitch!
I have a question concerning the Note Priority and the Poly Chain.
Can the Polly Chain also be used with a different (Polyphonic) Unit and Top Note Priority?
This would be handy in Live Performance Settings where a Single Note Lead would give you the Model D only and augment it with additional Voices from another unit (not doubling the Lead Voice) if you played a Chord.
The seyup would be a MIDI Keyboard (MIDI out) going into the Model D's MIDI In and a Polyphonic Module connected to the Model D's MIDI Through (to module MIDI In).
Have you tried anything like this?
The MIDI settings are on P.31 of the Model D. Owner's Manual.
Hi, the polychain capability is specific to the Model D, it won't work as designed across other synths. If you connected the Model D's MIDI through to a poly synth then that synth would play all the notes whereas the Model D would choose to play only one in the case that multiple are held down at the same time. From what I have observed by experimentating, in polychain mode the Model D does not suppress notes from being passed to the MIDI through port, it seems to be passing them all on but rather is selectively choosing which of the notes it will play itself. First synth determines it will choose first notes, second determines it will choose second notes, etc etc via some kind of control signal handshake at the time you enable polychain mode with them all connected.
Your intro; I have heard that as I blacked out....crazy deja vu
why not use midi CCs to adjust the patch?
It doesn't respond to midi cc's
@@TimShoebridge oh... that explains a lot 🤦🏻♂️ haha well, thanks for taking your time to answer, Tim! I was actually searching to see if anyone had polychained cats yet, as they are my favorite in this line of eurorack compatible mono synths, but not being able to use midi cc kinda sucks :/
@@pedrofreire6169 You're welcome :) Yes no MIDI automation is a pain with these remakes of old designs.
SOME ONE TELL ME, CAN I POLY CHAIN A MODEL D WITH A POLY D? AND HOW PLZ
me too. did you figure it out?
@@jojonanez9692 didn't figure it out, but I didn't have the 2 either I just wanted to know before buying the model d, I need up just going with the poly d and a subsequent 37 having fun with these 2, not poly chained though just clock synced
now you can sell them all and buy the Poly-D although it wouldn't look that great anymore ;-)
Will it have a multitude of oscillators on each individual note? I don't think so ;)
@@lukasschliepkorte3019 play it through a Chorus. Just kidding, yeah, you are right.
@@matiasmoulin2126 :D
Not shame on the Poly D though. For most it's concept covers almost all needs.
@@lukasschliepkorte3019I have both units and they are substantially different. Model D can do some import things that the Poly can’t in signal gain. Really alters the timbre possibilities. And Poly has some lovely extras and naturally gentler . I thought I’d keep one and sell the other, but no way. Love them both for different reasons.
didn't you dismiss the idea recently?
Yes many times when thinking logically I have dismissed the idea as totally impractical and a waste of time. But the price of the Model D kept falling and in the end I could not resist trying it. It is of course highly impractical compared to playing a regular polysynth but there is something about the sound and the whole experience that can be rewarding, and with a MIDI-to-CV converter it does not have to stop at just Model D's...
@@TimShoebridge those synth things are mostly not s.th logical, I know this too well. At least you now have an argument not getting the Moog One ;-)
Not enough CV to be practical
You have to learn to not lift your finger on the release, kinda like organ players . Ahh the advantage of digital synths .
please how to set it up in your daw plllease
Goodness gracious, that thumbnail. You have a LOT of Behringer Model Ds. So... uh... do you like Boog Model Ds? :P
If you want to have a synth that gets an update, buy novation :-)
Too long...
dude, stop whining and count your synths! are you sure you have enough model ds?