EFI LIVE Timing Dyno Test | Power Driven Diesel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video we are testing diesel injection timing with EFI LIVE! See how different timings affect the results of the dyno test with this Dodge Ram Cummins.
Power Driven Diesel is a specialty performance shop engaged in the engineering and development of high performance turbo diesel technologies.
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The results are interesting, yet that makes sense relative to the better power results by adding fuel before TDC based on the fact that common rails run higher injector pressures which improves (increases) the fuel burn due to better fuel atomization (increased surface area). The real test in my mind is to track the impact of injector timing on EGT's and MPG when towing on a grade vs. a dyno. Great video; very helpful. Thanks.
I'm 3 years late here but I hope you still keep up with the comments. I really enjoyed this and you guys seem to explain tuning really well while others are vague almost as if they're scared that us consumers are going to start tuning our own trucks and they'll lose business. Not many people are going to be able to tune themselves, but it's sure nice to understand the science behind good tuning. With my MM3, I'm now watching timing and pulse width to see the difference between my 5 tunes. It's fun to watch first hand and the differences in power are dramatic with minimal changes. Then there is also rail pressure that they can increase but either way it is nice to have a better understanding of what makes good tuning. Now I understand what makes a good towing tune and how the tuner can keep egt low. Thank you!
Thank you for the comment
very interesting. Obviously the higher injection pressures of common rail eliminate smoke, emissions and are more forgiving in giving up power. great stuff, thanks for sharing.
Videos like this are why I subscribe and buy your products. Real world testing and results, and then sharing all your findings. Super interesting stuff. Love these vids, keep 'em coming!
Very interesting too see the difference between those settings
Your videos go so far to help me understand more about diesel engines. My Dodge diesel caught fire a couple of months ago so I am shopping for a new truck and I do plan to put a mild tune on it, mostly for towing and efficiency.
So sorry to hear!
Love these Infovideos! Keep them coming!
Hmm, makes sense EGT's rise w after tdc injection.. Fuel is still burning. Great testing Todd, thanks!
If power levels are close, then focus on EGT's? Dyno runs are short bursts vs a long pull on a hill ... I know you race but I'd bet more guys are interested in towing performance... and keeping all the engine parts under the hood ;)
Mike Collins yes my thoughts exactly. I only tow with my common rail and would like as much power as possible but also be able to keep my foot buried and have egt’s in check.
@@pddofficial set the dino to simulate the hill on the south end of town or even better yet set the dino to simulate the SAE tow tests' Hill Davis Dam. It's a mild 4 to 6% grade better would be locked in first 25 miles an hour at 14% for about 5 minutes tell us how the fan kicking in effects the output. Yes the fan consumes between 25 and 75 horsepower on a Cummins engine as per Cummins but the additional airflow in that shop setting should yield colder air by means of density Improvement I'd like to know if the Improvement is bigger then the draw of the stationary fan not allowing the intercooler to do his job on improving hair density. Let's face it in Utah sometimes the wind is blowing up the hill faster than your driving if you're heavy EG no airflow in your intercooler until the fan kicks in
That's a very valid point. Towing on a grade is the real test. Dynos help set the parameters.
that's why you have at least 3 different tunes. One for gas mileage, one for towing and another for max power.
Very cool! I know in training the theory on CR is no matter what there is a small shot of fuel before tdc to start the flame. But not enough to cause the clatter noise. And then inject the remaining fuel in to the flame. Easier to light a small amount. Most pcm’s are capable of 4-6 injection events per power stroke. (All of which lead up to the CR’s being more forgiving)
Love these in-depth educational videos! Really interesting stuff. Thank you for the great content!
That's awesome. Really explained it well I never quite understood how it all worked. Now you just have to get the K27 vids out! 😉
interesting. ok so i was a dodge/chrysler/jeep tech for 17years.. in the early common rail fuel management class they described the fuel event as a "pilot shot" to start the burn then chase the piston down with multiple shots for a sustained burn. they didnt talk actuall timing or percentages of before and after. they talked about engine noise levels and increased torque due to an increased burn time that would drive the piston down for a longer period of time vs. a single "big bang". so your finding are very interesting to me... power and egt.
From a daily driver stand point, what do the different timings do to the lower rpm torgue and torgue curve? I see the tests starting at 2K, but I pull a 5th wheel with an automatic. Also what's easier on the engine? I'd like to find a compromise, no loss at lower rpm with gains more up top. Even better, more torque/HP across the curve over stock with no major difference in engine longevity.
Thanks, Enjoy the videos. Please keep them coming.
Loved the planing mechanic in the background lol
Very interesting information, I was more interested in torque readings than HP
Great video
Great educational video! Now let’s add bigger injectors and then let’s add more turbo.
Can you do a video talking about the differences in drivability, towing etc for various timing? Thanks
Earlier timing with a low pulse width is allowing the fuel to atomize in the cylinder for a couple microseconds my research has lead me to believe when injecting large quantities of fuel to make power, that the injecting it early and allowing it to atomize will help reduce unburnt fuel and optimize power. And run high rail pressure.
Great Video! I know you guys sell your own tunes now but have you thought about adding a tuning segment of videos on top of the rest of the awesome tech tips for parts and transmissions you already do. Would be awesome to get a general insight on other aspects of tuning like relation of Pilot timing to Main and what you like to keep total degrees of timing at!
Dang, this channel is awesome. I love tech vids.
Could you do a video on p pump timing, what is too much, what is not enough, and what is ideal? I've come to the conclusion for 500hp 20-22* is about right, but it would be great to have a little more insight on this.
I agree.. I have a Freightliner fl60 tow pig. 12v 6sp truck. I've done the AFC LIVE and .055 DV with long travel kit for stock boost. My data plate says 11 degrees. What will be the difference from 11 to 16 degrees?? What is the advantage? I'm actually going to call you about this. I cruise at 65 at 2000 rpms. My little truck is commonly at 25 to 30k with truck, 53ft gooseneck trailer and load. Lots of long passes between cda idaho and Indiana.
Thank you for another awesome video. 😁
thanks for the VID
I would like to see EGT and opacity of the exhaust as the tunes change I assume further advanced LOWER EGT and LESS smoke
even if it was just tho 120% VS 50/50 as those tunes were close and would show the difference
its amazing to me how critical people without any resources truly are. What they would do, Blah blah blah... They are watching your videos, you made, on your equipment. Just do your thing, test your way, a lot of knowledge passed on, that if they had the equipment would be making their own videos you could whine about! lol.... Love your channel, have learned a lot. Keep the videos coming!
Love the videos you guys do! Knowledge is power! 👍👍👍
Awesome video!Can you guys do a comparison with just injection pressure?I know a lot of tuners like to take a 5.9 to 26,000 like a 6.7 to pick up power.Was the post and pilot injection left on a stock map?
Pretty awesome. I’d like to see the power difference in adding more rail pressure like a dual pump or stroker pump can provide.
PowerDrivenDiesel that be awesome! I’m a duramax guy but am always looking to learn things and might be going into the Cummins game. Lol
could you go into more detail on P-pump and VE pump timing? and how the dynamic timing of the VE pump works and its benefits over the P-pump?
Super good vid. Keep these coming.
Hello guys. This was an very interesting video and a good explain 👍
thank you ✌️
You can get variable injection timing on a P-pump....just grind some teeth off the pump gear. ;-P
Oh, and also make sure your hood, firewall, and fenders are made of blast shield material.
Fantastic info, keep it up!
Another awesome video
Good stuff
Hold on 14:30 Stock setup injects fuel ATDC? Did I correctly understand this? New to CTD and was just thinking about timing this earlier today. Lol. *LOVE IT!*
Very interesting results. The only thing that I question and wonder about is we know that changing the percentage before and after top dead center does have a significant impact on power generation... But what about emissions I wonder how changing the timing affect emissions output
Nobody cares 😂
Great information.
so maybe a noob question, but if you're getting HP and losing EGTs going before TDC (obviously to a point), why is the stock tune all after TDC? increased cylinder pressure? just curious...
NVH is another reason. A lot of people complain about the rattle diesels make.
All for comfort and or emissions
Try adding boost to the graph use the Telemetry equipment you had on the race truck. offer a temporary part or the whole of the Telemetry kit as an upsell on Dyno runs, I would have paid extra for it . Crank speed would have been nice instead of calculated RPM(91.5[june]=no factory tack or sender).
@@pddofficial nice . It all take time.
this begs the question, if your egt's are going down as you advance timing, Could you add more total fuel by raising pressure and pick up more power? I guess the answer to this question would be more apparent if we recorded AFR for those pulls.
@@pddofficial awesome, thanks for the response. I tune and have tuned hundreds of gas engines but have limited knowledge of diesels so I'm interested in learning more about the ins and outs of tuning them.
This engine is alive!! compared to a stupid electric motor
Do you recall what the timing actually was day to? I know you said 120% before tdc. Curious what that actually was. Not that I expect you to share your timing table.
One more thing when are you going to add the torque converter lockup switch and do it again?
looking at the timing calculators 100% BTDC at about 1900us is starting to inject at about 37 degrees BTDC at 3200. What about running something like 2500us pulsewidth? Starting injection at nearly 50 degrees BTDC at 3200 to get 100% of the fuel in BTDC seems extremely early to me. I'm used to mechanical injection where as stated, all the fuel is in depending on crank rotation and not by a timed duration. Just trying to learn some things, I guess I've stayed between the 70/30 and 50/50 split because the timing numbers worried me.
Great info 👍
Hi we never got to see the graph..?or is it my iPad skipping.
You use the term explodes when describing the fuel burn, I know on gas engines that caused pinking/knocking is it the same for diesels or like you say later you use burn.....is what you need a burn rather than an explosion?
Awesome content! Do u have a video on like a Edge juice w Attitude what it makes for power on a 99 and the dos and donts? I'm learning this truck I got, it's all new to me, I was a old 7.3 Ford guy but couldn't pass up this low mi 99 Cummins
@@pddofficial ok, maybe in spring I'll do something different. Injectors and a new tuner
Is it possible the the pilot injection(s) 10 or 20 deg before the main injection cycle are why the later injection times were not as poor as expected and were so different than a p-pump would have been?
What would happen to the most efficient burn or most complete emissions at tail pipe with the sniffer.
How much max timing for a 2000 micro second tune?
Think it's better to have it all in about 20 degrees before tdc.
Do you recomend efi vs mm3 or are they pretty similar just depending on tuning or tuner.
They are very similar the biggest differences will be year and auto or manual as the efi is better for tuning 06+ autos as that is when they started the 849 ecm
@@pddofficial what about a 15 auto efi?
What would the 50-50 split on the CR equate to in degrees on a P-pump?
Great video, really cool to hear the side by side (almost) you can tell easy which one makes power just by the sound. DId you name the truck yet? (Odin Odin Odin) hahaha ! Since I started watching your channel I now want another Cummins. I do like this little Ecodiesel (29 mpg hwy is nice) but I sure miss that 800HP 6.7 under my right foot. I think it's time to find a square body 1 ton SRW and drop in a 6.7. Time to sell the FJ60 diesel.....and get wrenchin...
Awesome video. I have been playing with timing on my 06 cummins using hptuners. I couldn’t determine a good method for choosing timing. I started with using p-pump numbers on the main soi at 150mm3 and interpolating it down lower. I found that smarty has a calculator but I think that was 50-50, and the truck didn’t wake up. I tried to do more math based on astm and petroleum research papers for diesel ignition delay and pressure curves at 1600rpm. I tried to reverse calculate ignition delay in uS to crank degrees and it seems happier. Have you found any correlation between the 100/0 and 80/20 splits and optimizing ignition delay periods?
Wow that’s super complicated
Todd can you put efi live in a 03?
No you need an 849 Ecm from an 06 and up truck.
I was going to ask how a p-pump injects enough fuel at higher rpms given that the window that the injector is open is shorter. But I thought a little about it and figured that the higher rpms would cause the pump to make more pressure. Am I right on this? Also, is there anyway a p-pump engine can be modified to make it a common rail? One last question. What is your opinion on the new Dodges with the 1000 pound-foot of torque?
Thank you for the reply. And Thanks for the great vids.
Is this with or without pilot injection?
Can the rpm be flashed to 3500 to 4000 in the red zone
How many pulses do common rail engines use? Some new emission type diesels have 5 or 6 injection pulses
On the 03/early 04 there are 2 and on the 04.5-early 07 there are 3
Is Todd's CR more "forgiving" of late timing because the exhaust valve is closed longer on the cam? I've heard that 06-07 has "in-cylinder EGR" - safe to assume earlier trucks are cracking valve open a bit before the power stroke is complete?
it has an aftermarket cam
Love the detail, thx! Will you explain (in detail) how you can make a 6.7 sound like a 12v? Please and thank you.
X I believe you skip the pilot injection events
Is there anything you can do for timing on a vp44 pump?
You can swap it for a p pump... thats your best bet for better timing XD
You should check out the quadzilla adrenaline v2.
@@pddofficial okay I will give you guys a call. I'm rebuilding my engine in my 2001 Dodge 2500 with 150 horsepower injectors, hot rod injection pump and 63mm fleece performance Turbo. And while tearing it apart I see that I need a new cam and I was looking at your stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3 cams and have questions about which one would be best for my truck which is going to be just a daily driver and light towing truck. I think number two would be best for my application just wanted your thoughts on it and if I should put new valve springs in as well or if stock ones will be fine?
Much less rodkn9ck but not as much hp
Hi we never got to see the graph..?or is it my iPad skipping.
You use the term explodes when describing the fuel burn, I know on gas engines that caused pinking/knocking is it the same for diesels or like you say later you use burn.....is what you need a burn rather than an explosion?