A thing I've found helpful to mitigate the "long turns" and especially the "something changed right before my turn" is to encourage my players to think out loud, to communicate the strategies they're thinking about. If the wizard mentions that they're thinking about casting Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern, other players can then go "ok, yeah, let's try to get these minions in a group." Or they can say "hey, can you do this thing you did a few sessions ago? Because if you do, I can do this." To me, it takes the place of/represents the time the party would take to plan ahead, talk, get to know each other's abilities. After a while, I've found that the actual in combat conversations get much shorter, they start to name their combos, they get an actual feel for what other players are planning, etc.
That's great. Gonna try this at my own table, especially since I've been wondering how to encourage teamwork and combos more from my players. And I kinda feel like it makes sense in-world as well, for the reasons you mentioned. It's not hard to imagine the wizard yelling at their teammates to push the enemies into a small grouping.
@@3ndlessL00pI think that makes a ton of sense and is easily explainable outside of meta gaming. You travel and live alongside each other everyday. During downtime I think it perfectly reasonable that characters would discuss tactics and how to work effectively together.
@@Nexidal Exactly. In-universe, the party would likely talk to each other outside of combat: while traveling, while doing daily prep, while eating around the campfire etc. But that might not happen out-of-universe. Having them discuss tactics in combat can replace that, and hopefully they do it less over time. Otherwise, combat will take forever.
I DM a group of neurodivergent teenagers with special educational needs and disabilities as part of my job. I'm really glad to see you dudes talking about this topic. As a DM, it's exhausting, but it's an amazing game for neurodivergent learners. DM tip for anyone with neurodivergent/SEND players: Patience is a muscle. Exercise it, nourish it, but you absolutely must take rest days.
I was inspired hearing about people who do this professionally for ADHD/ASD kids! I couldn’t find a group for my son so learned to dm on my own - it is SO exhausting but very rewarding! I know you mean a lot to them, my kid and his friends love it!
@@carissa7434 That's so wonderful that you did that for your son. D&D is as much a life skill as learning any sport or game, and your son will use it to make friends well into adulthood. I've seen it happen. Great job!
hey, i know both of you mean well, but as a person with adhd i'd like to point out that neurodivergent people who come to read these comments might not want to see ones that say how exhausting it is to play with them. dming requires lots of work regardless of who the players are, so your experiences aren't unique to having neurodivergent players, and if you think running a game for a group of neurodivergent people for few hours a week is exhausting, imagine actually being neurodivergent and having to deal with your own issues 24/7. again, i don't want to seem like i'm attacking you guys, just wishing you were a little more tactful in the comment section of a video where there are bound to be tons of neurodivergent people reading them. thanks!
@fishsticxz Shh, you're forgetting that our needs are so special and that we should be grateful that neurotypical people are so patient, considering how much less exhausting it would be for them if they didn't deal with people like us. Seriously though, thanks for your comment and being polite about it. And yes, I am hurt and don't feel like sugar-coating it.
Dming for autists is no more exhaust than for "normal" people. They think different, but unless its very serious it doesn't hinder their ability to play. I found adhd at the table harder to deal with since i myself am on the spectrum, and as a dm i can rly get into the game, so being lenient on somebody with adhd being distracted can be difficult for me, but i try to put myself in their shoes (Im thirty, the older you get the more you are able to deal with your own autistic tendencies lol)
Ngl I was in a really bad headspace today thinking about all the hurdles that come with being autistic and then I start doomscrolling and I see this video on my feed. I feel a lot better now, thanks for thinking about us
4:30 - I wrote my honors thesis on best practices for employing neurodivergent adults (and am autistic myself), and the #1 takeaway was that creating a safe space to openly communicate needs and then collaboratively figuring out how to meet them has a massive impact on the success of ND individuals. But what’s more, those same practices benefit everyone around them because - surprise - everyone has unique needs, communication styles, etc. and talking about them is super helpful. In my experience as both a player and a DM, the same holds true at TTRPG tables. Sometimes I need accommodation because I’m experiencing sensory overload or a shutdown - sometimes I need it because I just didn’t sleep well or work was extra busy. Regardless of the reason, I feel incredibly thankful for playing at a table that prioritizes communicating these things and adapting to whatever keeps the game fun for everyone, whether that’s a short-term adjustment or changing how we play altogether.
I'm curious if any companies employ practices like this. In my experience letting your employer know you are neurodivergent is the worst thing you can do. They will find any excuse to replace you as soon as possible
@@chowell365 Personally my results have been mixed, and often more dependent on individual managers than a broader company philosophy/statement. A really effective manager understands that when their employees are playing to their strengths and getting their needs met, their output will be better and reflect positively on the manager. Some work cultures foster that mindset better than others, but you can find good/bad leaders anywhere. Some companies also have dedicated ND hiring programs that come with built-in supports, though those still tend to be pretty narrowly focused on early career people in technical fields. (I’m a mid-career HR professional, so usually not their target demographic.)
Have you invented a delivery system that would let me beam your thesis directly into my manager's brain? It would resolve a lot of issues. (If only that were a possibility!)
YES! I dont see why you would need to dm differently for autism. What applies here applies to everyone. Every person has their own behaviours and needs, regardless of mental problems. Dming for an autist or having and autist as a dm can sometimes be easier than other people depending on how they feel.
@@sloesty To be clear, I absolutely believe that an autistic player likely has different needs than a non-autistic player (or even another autistic player, because autism can look a lot of different ways). But an environment where the autistic player can safely communicate their needs and have them met is also going to benefit everyone else, because they then get to do the same. Which I think is largely what this video boils down to, with the addition of some helpful tips for those who may not realize they’re allowed to do things that make the game easier for them (or even know what those things are) because they’ve only been told how they’re “supposed to” play.
Honestly, even as a neurotypical player, I sometimes struggle with things like doing math quickly or deciding what to do on my turn when something has suddenly changed, and getting told to hurry up just makes me feel embarrassed and guilty. Please, please never forget to have empathy, understanding, and patience for everyone at your table and beyond.
I should tell you that the Monsters of Drakkenheim is something that both of my sons want me to kickstart. We watched the video after your panel discussion at GaryCon. You met me and my younger son at the convention. Both sons are neurodivergent to some degree. Great video topic.
Something I will immediately latch onto, for visual aids: This doesn't *just* mean maps and/or minis. You might find it helpful to consider the following: - An Initiative tracker. - Spell, ability, and magic item cards. - Spell slot/class ability trackers/tokens. - Sketches of (N)PC's for a visual reference. - A flow-chart of your character's combat strategy. - Cards that you flip over to say whether you're concentrating on a spell, currently raging, or even in- or out-of-character. - Cards that show your character's current mood. Also, another tip from me: Write all your notes, backstory, physical description, et cetera in first person. This is a little brain-hack that helps you get into character.
I love the phone analogy for introversion. So many people don’t understand what being an introvert is like and think that if you are friendly and cheerful that it’s odd when you reach your limit and want to retreat. To make things worse, they sometimes will try to “pump you up” to get you more excited - not realizing this just drains your battery further.
I had a job that was super heavy on customer interaction (think call centre) and at lunch I'd retreat to the corner of the lunch room to read a book and try to recoup a spoon or two. I had to get very blunt with the well-meaning extroverts who thought they were nobly rescuing me from my solitude by making inane conversation with me when I was trying to read. Apparently there are acceptable ways to reject conversation, but it took me a while to find those. "Thanks, but I need some quiet time," = Acceptable. "What makes you think you're better company than Terry Pratchett?" = Unacceptable. Wailing wordlessly in frustration and turning to face the wall = Quite Rude, apparently?
@@katecritt You remind me of an incident in the coffee room at work, one Friday afternoon several decades ago. Me: Four days. Colleague A: Four days? Really? Colleague B: [Quizzical expression] Me: Yes, I think four days is the realistic maximum. A: Ah. OK. B: What are you two on about? Me: The time before your body will be found. A: [Nods] B: B-body? Uhh? Me: It's been a long week. For the ten minutes since the kettle boiled, A and I have been enjoying a companiable silence. No talk. Not a single word. Just silent relaxation over a couple of mugs of tea. Then you came in, saw two quiet people in an otherwise empty room, and chose to break the silence while your coffee brewed. You didn't ask. You just started wittering on about the audio cables you bought for your new hi-fi speakers, a subject that neither A nor I know anything about let alone care about. The most insipid, vapid subject possible. Then, when you sat down at our table and it was clear that you were going to carry on talking even when you were getting no response whatsoever from either of us, A and I looked at each other and realised that we were thinking the same thing: that if we killed you and tipped your body out of the window onto the first-floor ledge, which is barely overlooked by any other window, how much peace and quiet would we get before your body was found? A: Four days. Because of the smell. Me: Four days. B: I... I'll go and d-drink this in my office. A: [Silence] Me: [Silence]
Learning that these guys are neurodivergent adds another reason as to why I love this channel so much. I'm autistic and I've been playing D&D for a couple years now. Having maps for combat helps out so much. I also agree that group size is a major factor. As much as I love Critical Role, having smaller groups works so well for me. Thanks so much for making this video!
I ran my first game this past Sunday. Lost Mine of Phandelver, session 0 and chapter 1. We took a break after character questions+the Goblin Ambush to have lunch. I needed that bowl of soup and quick break, it gave me all the chill I needed to run the investigation and Cragmaw hideout. I did almost everything sitting down, and it was fine. I stood up when my players ran into the wolves because my legs were tired. Standing allowed me to play the goblins and wolves and stuff with a lot more gusto, and I feel like that improved the game because my fun translated to my players’ entertainment, they got more creative with the environment.
I commented before you added pre and post game: I did voice warm ups and was pacing to get me hype pre-game. I needed a cup of ice cream, a smoke, and some quiet afterwards.
As someone who works for a Learning Disability and Autism charity you guys certainly sound like experts to me. Accessibility, kindness, patience and understanding - this is the whole thing. in my line of work there's something called being "person centred" and these are all the core principles. It's not about the labels, but the needs. And DnD should be fun and that means being person centred about everyone at the table.
@@DungeonDudes noooo thank you both for continuing to be some of the most ethical, thoughtful, and helpful people on the internet. I'm not lying when I say that the advice in your videos are more than just DnD tips. A lot of them apply to other aspects of people's lives. You're teaching respect and consideration, and that is priceless on a platform filled with content focussed on drama and anger. Plus, you've created an incredible and rich world - what's not to like? :)
When playing with my friends in person, I used to have to do an extra task like doing the dishes or cleaning while listening to other people’s turns and waiting for my turn. This used to frustrate my friends because they thought I was not paying attention, and this was like seven years before I got my official diagnosis of ADHD. It all makes so much sense now! But sometimes when you’re in it, you don’t know why you need to not just SIT THERE. It’s nice to play with people who are patient with you ❤
A Tuesday episode 2 weeks in a row, new Drakkenheim episode, a new kickstarter and a livestream all in one day? I must be dreaming and I don’t want to wake up!
I'm so happy to see so much attention being given to the intersection of TTRPGs and neurodivergence (what I call being neuro-dicey). Did you guys know there's a whole podcast about this topic? (ADHD20 at the Pocket Dimension.) And Ginny Di did a video on this too. I hope all the neuro-dicey people end up engaging with each other more and talking about their own experiences. There really are a lot of us, and we never stop needing the validation and advice that others may have. Thanks for posting this video.
Friend Eadric!! Thanks for this, and absolutely agree about all of us finding the intersection between ADHD (and others!) and TTRPGs and then banding together and taking over the world or whatever. I actually had the honor of playing a game with the Dudes at Gamehole Con (the EXCELLENT Ragnaborg, by Erica Lowe) and we talked for a second about the shocking number of folks that game have ADHD, so I'm really glad that Kelly and Monty made this video of great tips!
Obviously I wrote my comment before realizing the Dudes *did* mention Ginny's video, b/c I have to pause and comment immediately or I'll forget my comments later!
Y'all disliking this video should do some introspection as to why you feel so negatively about Dungeon Dudes talking about neurodivergent people. It's not "pandering" to acknowledge these players exist and offer specific advice for them, not every video is for you, and that is okay.
I like to play characters that are usually not so great in face to face conversations but share their emotions through subtle gestures or actions. I usually am pretty bad at expressing emotions in realtime so describing actions which imply that my character is stressed, agry, sad or happy is usally easier. and it more often then not leads to some fun group dynamics, because the other characters are more or less able to decypher my gestures and act accordingly.
I set up (and was DM for a long time) for a group of neurodivergent players. The biggest barrier initially was using theatre of mind exclusively, some of my players find it difficult (or impossible) to picture stuff in their heads (some of my autistic players) and some got distracted, so missed key facts (ADHD). I’ve found using an app like Roll20 is far more forgiving for neurodivergent players, as it also means you can catch up on what is going on without constantly feeling like you need to ask for updates (which causes some people social anxiety). Really interested to hear your thoughts and thanks for putting something like this out- it’ll leave a lot of people feeling supported/validated and help a lot of DMs who might be struggling.
I feel that about the music and flashing lights. One thing I like about Foundry is that I can have music for my players and mute it for myself. A lot of my players like music, so this is great. Everybody gets to experience their preference. Now if only I could configure it so that spell effects only show for players who want them. I don't do spell effects on the vtt as I find it super disruptive to my concentration
Thank you for saying that as almost your first sentence! Is this why I have been so happy to follow you for about 3 years? NOW I know why this is my favourite D&D channel! I am an autistic DM and I have been running a weekly 2 hour game for teenagers and a 2 hour game every other week for 2 separate groups of autistic adults for 2-3 years. Here are things I found particularly helpful for my groups: Take regular breaks (especially for the teenagers - we find it really helps if they have a 2-3 minute break every half hour) With the adults we break for a few minutes half way through the session and people can get up and walk around outside the room whenever they want Use visual aids - the sessions invariably go better if there is a map (not necessarily terrain). I LOVE theatre of the mind but a lot of neurodivergent people can't keep the information needed for tactical play in their heads Don't use too much sensory input - atmospheric music is great but many neurodivergent people can't cope with too much sensory stimulation Do a Session Zero! and then do session re-zeros! and then ask the groups regularly how they thing the sessions are going, what could be improved etc. Don't forget raising lines and veils, but understand that it might only be when the situation comes up that a neurodivergent person wants to raise it. Distribute cards and allow people to show them when they are uncomfortable, rather than always expect them to say things aloud Offer sensitive advice to inexperienced or anxious players. Many neurodivergent players, even adults, are unused to choosing from a wide range of options, and would like them sensitively narrowed down Allow people who are anxious role-players to say "my character would like to do this" - although as a DM I ALWAYS try to call people by their character name, so that my players get used to it Try and find a simpler version of a D&D character sheet online - focus on the essential character sheet information and use lots of visual aids on it. If you're creative, try making a 2-3 page simplified sheet. The standard D&D sheet is very wordy and overwhelming for many neurodivergent players
NOTE CARDS for your abilities/maneuvers/fighting style/feats! I find that it can be really hard for me to figure out where those things are on a character sheet, so having individual notecards I can lay out around me as I play that have a short description on one side (is it a reaction? how does it activate? is it damage or advantage/disadvantage?) and then the entire, word-for-word description on the other side is really helpful in me 1) remembering what abilities I have and 2) being able to quickly scan the specifics of what it can do. Also, I find it helpful to draw out a minimal character sheet that has everything organized in a way that makes sense to my brain - so I have everything that replenishes on a short rest with a circle next to it that I can check off with pencil (or for things like superiority dice, have x amount of circles I cross out as I use them), that way on a short rest, I can just erase all my pencil marks and we're all nice and rested. I like doing this with spell slots as well because I find physically x-ing out when I use one much more helpful than the dots that are mixed in with all the names of the spells - making the slots more minimal helps my brain process it better. I also add important spell stuff to this as well such as beast companion stats if I frequently use those types of spells. Added to that 'minimal' character sheet is stuff my party can do. We have a twilight cleric with their temp HP, so a cheat sheet of how many HP I get at the end of my turn (as well as an indication if it's on) and also the bard's bardic inspiration and what I can add to my roll if I use it. Having all that stuff on it's own separate sheet instead of interspersed with a huge wall of text I have to scroll through desperately trying to find the right thing is super helpful to me. The walls of text are very overwhelming and I feel like I can never find anything, so abilities are just forgotten and never thought of again - but with the minimal character sheet and note cards, it streamlines the info for my brain and works out much better!
My issue is that I get bored if all that is happening is talking and discussing what to do rather than.... actually doing it. I need that stimulation of action, activity, and rolling to keep my focus on the game otherwise my mind wanders and I start thinking about other things, or really hone in on possible ideas on how to do things that never happen. On the bright side, this also means I'm often thinking a lot on how to solve certain problems..... but I end up being quiet and seem non-participative, and that's very hard for people to tell what's going on in online tabletop.
I fucking hate prep sessions where you in character waste the whole game session, damn 4 hours, planning how you will break into the corporate building (damn you Shadowrun). I have no patience for people who overplan and GMs who encourage this. Recently I've just said my players in high level dnd campaign "screw your plans guys, no planning, you go in this heist at the beginning of the session, and you have Flashbacks which you can spent". I found some forked system for this built upon Blades in the Dark and it worked. People did things, not preparing and speaking about it, they did things. It was a blast, oh gods I cannot just sit and listening about plans
My wife is similar in that she'll lose focus during less "active" portions of play. She helps mitigate this by taking up some sort of trivial IRL activity, such as cross stitching, where she can keep her hands busy and be *doing something* while still being able to keep her cognitive attention at the table. This obviously is easier while playing virtually, but I think with bit of communication among your table, you could help manage your focus without seeming distracted.
Yeah the roleplaying aspect is what I’ve always really struggled with. It’s not even that I’m just not comfortable doing it (I mean, I’m not, but that’s a trait that can be acquired through practice). One reason is just that I’m incapable of completing a social interaction in real life, but the other more problematic reason is that I always struggle with putting together a complete character. It’s always half-myself and my ideals. I might know how I might respond in some situations, but that’s not my character. The usual response to this is people telling me that I need to develop my character better and figure them out, but that’s exactly the problem. I just feel like I’m incapable of doing so, mostly because I don’t really feel like I understand how normal people operate. I don’t know, it’s hard for me to express this in words, so D&D has always been tough for me and I’ve only ever been in a few campaigns because of it.
key designations and respecting priority order...... when you or someone else is in the middle of a action and that gets interrupted multiple times it can really mentally exhaust and break attention and flow..... a clear outline on the way interactions go and sticking with them is a big one....
Shout out to my fellow autistic DMs & players! The biggest barrier that I've encountered is how much out-of-game chatter at the table destroys my character immersion. My brain is incapable of ignoring any conversation that happens within my earshot, and while in life I'm perfectly comfortable actively participating in multiple conversations at once (something that weirds out my step-mom, haha), I can't do that while maintaining a character. I need to be able to stay in the scene, or at least have anything external kept to a minimum. I got heavily into roleplaying in college, along with a whole bunch of my friends, and we played in loads of games with different permutations of the group. I love them all dearly, I'm still friends with most 20 years later, and I absolutely adore that we could just chat on and on and on and on... but there are a good chunk of them that I realized I simply couldn't game with, because they wanted a beer & pretzels experience, and I need a focused one. Nothing wrong with that style of game, of course; it just doesn't work for me. And that's an important thing to keep in mind in general, I think. Just because you're friends with someone doesn't mean you are a good fit for a D&D table, and that's okay.
@@thatguymatt5816 Not necessarily, I think the complexity of ttrpg rules appeals to certain types of people On the flip side, DnD provides a safe pretense for us socially anxious folks
I'm autistic and struggle with role-playing in real time. It helps me to think about some situations my character could be in and have some lines written down to respond to those situations. It could even be something really vague like "party member does something dumb" or "enemy tries to tempt me." I just like to have some lines to fall back on if I freeze up in the game.
Also, it helps me to have a fidget toy while playing. I've actually started figeting with just two d20s, rolling them around in my hand. It helps me focus when I'm listening.
I'm glad y'all are doing a video for neurodivergent DMs as well. I'm new to it, and like Kelly, I shut down when things don't go according to plan, so you can imagine what it's like for me when I'm behind the screen🙃
I have days where I just "can't" and I have days where I'm on fire and can't seem to slow down. I'm all over the place at times. In between it all I try to find ways to decompress and relax. Maybe it's the kids, working nights or just life. I'm 50 years old as of this writing, but have never been officially diagnosed as neurodivergent. But I'm pretty sure I am. Taking breaks when feeling overwhelmed is essential, but so is fueling the fires of inspiration when they arise. I have a kid who has been diagnosed with ADHD and this has helped A LOT dealing with that as well as my own issues. Thank you for this video.
As the NT Dungeon Master for a variety of ND players, I really appreciate you guys talking about all of this. The music point in particular was really helpful: for me, music helps to set the scene and get my mind in the action; it helps keep me engaged during combat, and makes things more cinematic. Learning that it could be distracting for players with ADHD helps me to be more aware, and I'll definitely share this video with my players and have a conversation about possible accommodations that I can make to the game. I want to ensure that we're all having the best D&D possible, after all! You are both such excellent advocates for our community; thank you for being a thoughtful pair of voices!
Calling out scented candles is an interesting thing we haven't run into for my group! But we don't use them for specific moods, we use them because ONE of our cats has the most ferociously bad smelling poops. We had a random Twisted Peppermint from Bath And Body Works that worked SUPER well for covering it up. The bad stonk previously and on more than one occasion brought the session to a brief halt while we Febrezed to little effect
An important point is that not only might people not be comfortable sharing their ND condition, they may also not be aware of it or not be willing to acknowledge it due to stigma. ND isn't something that develops later, it's always present. Late diagnosis especially for autism is very common I think.
I have high functioning autism and ADHD. honestly 5 is my limit when it comes to group size. And I have to struggle not to make my characters too powerful, or a more recent idea in dnd, the idea of nerfing myself to let other people shine. In a small group of 3-4, I could fixate and play for 6 hours plus easily. Especially if there's a lot of combat.
I’m a neurodivergent DM who runs a group of all neurodivergent players. The best thing I have found that works for my group is actually turning off the lights. There are some lights that are so harsh It can be exhausting for us. So we have a projector that projects all of our maps on a whiteboard with magnets for tokens and the use of laser pointers so everyone can see and ask questions about what’s going on.
Ya know you've hit everything I can imagine. My whole table including me as DM has some form of neurodivergency. We do 2 hours sessions, sometimes even less, and frequent 5min breaks, and ut works wonders. Only think I would add - is check on physical energy. Once I planned a one shot that we were gonna do after ALL DAY at a Ren Fair. On paper, it sounded like a day of amazing fantasy. After the festival, driving, turning hotel room into a game environment - we played like 30 mins and we all hated it lol!!! I think individual levels are important too. Personally, if I have even 1 player who expresses they're exhausted, we usually call it. Golden rule - no DnD is better than bad DnD. Anyway thanks guys! God tier stuff as always
Thank you dungeon dudes for this. I just went to an orientation for a new job, and the first thing was IBCCES certification (autism awareness training). As someone who is nuerodivergant it's nice to see more awareness about it.
Bipolar DM here. I appreciate this video, and I feel like being neurodiverse myself allows me to better assist my neurodiverse party. Thanks for making this video.
Yes! As a bipolar player and newbie DM, I feel better equipped to deal with others in similar situations. Getting ready to run my second campaign ever. We should call it the Bipolar Express, but it's really Dungeons of Drakkenheim.
Very important advice in your Take Breaks section. There's definitely a moment where many of us just run out of steam, and I think for most people, there's really no warning, or else the warning signs are extremely subtle and hard to notice (especially when we're not used to looking for them). But when it happens, it's like a switch has been flipped, and we're just DONE. I'd love to hear if you guys have noticed any signs of that moment coming so you can quickly take measures like telling people you need to break or leave or stop or whatnot.
It took playing 5e with two of my adult children and their friends who are ALL some flavor of Neurodivergent to figure out my husband and I are also Neurodivergent. We always use maps and minis. While I can do TOOM, like when we play Masks, I prefer the physical representation. We keep fidget toys on the toys to help focus. Music would definitely distract at least some of us .
Great video! I'm so happy you took the time to talk about this topic. It made me realize there's 5 neurodivergent guys at my table (including myself) and although we all obviously see it, accept we're strange birds, and instinctively make accommodations because we all have a lifetime of coping, I've never really stopped and honestly acknowledged it and made an intentional effort. You guys brought up so many great ideas, can't wait for the GM prep! Thank you.
Thank you for mentioning group size! Having autism, I tried big groups and it doesn't work (I can definitely see the appeal, though). With smaller groups (three including our DM) not only do you get more game time in, but the mental "static" of having more people at the table makes it hard to breathe sometimes.
Ooh ooh, talking about the physical dice calculator - I had this idea before, & figured you could (not too complicatedly) just have some sorta clear dice tray with a camera beneath & simply train it to recognise shape of dice & numbers rolled (& then have tables per die size to work out what the Top number rolled would be from the bottom one that the camera sees). The benefit of the camera being that you can use most any dice sets with it (easy to train by the creators just rolling tons of types, manually flagging what each number & die size are into a learning algorithm). Someone please make this, it'd be sick
As a neurodivergent DM who seems to have one group of fellow neurodivergents, and another group of people who definitely *seem* neurotypical, I'm definitely waiting to see that DM prep video
Removing distractions also includes off-topic table talk! A lot of people, especially neurodivergent people, cannot focus on "taking their turn" if other people at the table are loudly discussing comic books or movies.
Thank you so much for this video. I think it's very important to shed light on this topic. In my experience, playing Pen&Paper can also have a sort of therapeutic effect on neurodivergent players - experiencing social situations of all sorts within a safe space of a group of friends playing a game can make a huge difference.
you guys are already my favorite youtube creators and seeing this video makes me so happy. that's a very important discussion that is rarely talked about and one the biggest struggles that some and of my friends (and myself) face when play this beautiful game.
I started watching you guys about 6 months ago, and something about your approach really resonated with me. Your videos helped me reengage with D&D as a hobby for the first time in over a decade, but while that in of itself is awesome, I have never been as big of a fan of your channel as I am right now. Thanks for this video!!!!!
As a DM I always appreciate having my players take notes and read them off as a recap at the start of sessions. Also since it's so easy to forget about starting or changing music I always love when one of my players reminds me about that
“Turn down the music, I can’t read the address” Now, I LOVE music. I’m a musician, and have 16+ years of AV for events. I’ve learned that music while playing is very distracting to myself, but I still love it. So, I have a few tips for this: If you have music while actively playing, avoid lyrics. Use instrumentals. I find the extra words in the air being presented at me to really throws me off. This goes along with my AV background where if we had background music, we would turn down a lot of midrange to not interfere with the same pitch/frequencies of human voice communication. As a DM, use music to bring your players into a scene or cut-scene, then fade out. I did this with the Rick and Morty intro running the D&D vs Rick and Morty. Players loved it. I found that music after that was too distracting to myself, so I kept it off most of the time. There are great times to blast the music, grabbing your players’ attention, but then when it’s grabbed, fade it out so people can concentrate 🤘🎲🤘
It is very helpful for those deeper into the community to talk about these issues and help give options for work arounds for when these things happen. I have found that DMing has helped me soooo much in my life and with work. I'm no longer so shy, I think better on my feet and have used things from the table at my job that help me with management level decisions. Great video my dudes.
My neurodivergent ass realizing that I don't have enough time on my lunch to finish the video so I crank the playback speed all the way up and following along better than at normal speed...
Wow almost never hear about dysgraphia. Thanks for recognizing it. Really wish I could do my own character art, but literally can't draw a straight line. HeroForge actually really helps with this, and has really helped me feel like I can actually bring a visualization to life. Could use AI but ... I have trouble getting over the ethics of AI training datasets, for me personally.
Yeah, it's less common than dyslexia or dyscalculia , and rarely diagnosed without one or both of the other two, or at least that's what they told me when I was diagnosed.
thank you for considering artists and not using AI tools to create your character art! using tools like heroforge or reroll or even picrews for visualizing your character supports the real artists who created the assets for this exact purpose! and if you are in a good situation money-wise, you can always directly commission an artist to draw your character for you, without any of the limitations of ready-made assets.
I’m autistic, and also prefer smaller group sizes. 4 players + a DM is ideal. But larger tables have worked for me _if_ the dungeon master is good at helping players be able to talk. As in, encouraging loose turns outside of combat, and asking quieter players if they have any ideas. Large groups are extremely difficult for me to talk in (I have either listen mode or talk mode, and the more people there are the harder it is to switch between modes without missing anything), so that little step of just asking if I have an idea is _so_ helpful. Tables where I don’t have to sit close to anyone are also helpful. The proximity to another person is very distracting, and drains my battery quicker. I _can_ put up with music at a table, but it also drains my battery quicker, and makes it hard to make decisions.
I appreciate the comments on creative writing. My campaign ideas comes in spurts, sometimes unexpectedly, so I have notepads everywhere to capturing ideas. I can't sit down and just be 'creative.' And I have found that a lot of my best ideas come when I am outdoors, whether hiking in the wilderness, or just sitting in the park in the sunshine. Being away from distractions is a big help, and being outdoors inspires me. And I really appreciate the comments on party size. Having only three players is one of the reason I really enjoy your gaming sessions. The pacing is better, there is more chances for individual players to shine and the combat does not turn into laborious slogs. I never do campaigns with more than 4 players, and in a few cases we have had two players running two characters, and that has proven to be great fun, as well. Great video!
All the tips are great, and even as a non-neurodivergent DM I already use some (player makes the recap) and will probably include others. But what I liked most about the video is the genuine care and affection portrayed between the two of you, all the ways of saying "this is me caring about him", for example the music being more muted if a certain player is present, such a great dynamic. I absolutely love the way you two interact with each other, it makes for such a wholesome watch experience.
Love that you guys are talking about this. I’ve always appreciated how open you both are about topics like this. Your videos are so easy to listen and watch for my Autistic and ADHD self. I’ve learned so much at TTRPG’s and my self as well.
Maybe you should be more concerned about why everyone in the West has these problems while everywhere else they aren't, rather than focusing on being a better D&Der?
For music I find that it works really well in online games where everybody can adjust their own volume on their headset. Different people may prefer the music to be more or less loud over the conversation, and sometimes you just wanna turn it off completely when it becomes too much. This way you can do that without any hassle, without having to break out of character and ask or discuss, and others can still enjoy some background music if they want it.
I’ve watched a lot of your videos and they are always fun, but this is by far the most useful as an aspiring DM. As I’m learning my role I’m realizing that knowing the needs and wants of each player are as and maybe even a tiny bit more important than me knowing every detail of the game. Videos that give concrete tips that actually make my role easier are incredibly helpful.
One thing I've noticed a lot is when there's a lot happening and a bunch of dice are rolled, some people's brains just shut down. Like if in any other situation they'd be able to figure it out in two seconds, but amid chaos, 'what even are numbers'. So it really helps if you say what the numbers you rolled are aloud, then everyone else who isn't having remember your character sheet can do the math for you, then all you need to do is add your bonuses. Gets everyone involved and makes the game go faster.
I've been playing with a group online since 2020, and before that we played in person. I think there are definitely drawbacks or issues people might have with online play, BUT I think it also fixed a lot of issues. Players can mute themselves or hide their camera, which helps a lot when some players need to fidget or stem or snack. Muting yourself when you need to play with a clicker fidget can help prevent other players who get really frustrated or distracted by specific noises, and having a mute button is a game changer for when I need to snack but another player has misophonia.
As an online only player, one of the things that helped me most was being able to switch from Voice chat to just Text chat. I can struggle with verbally communicating if/when I start to get overwhelmed so having another option for communication really helped to still participate.
Simply wanted to say thank you for making this video. As someone who is autistic I really appreciate the effort and support you guys are putting out there in this regard. You covered broadly everything that I would have wanted to have said as well as needed to hear said. I think the best and most helpful step that I was able to figure out eventually a few years ago, that you mentioned, was to keep the groups smaller. Playing with anywhere from 1-3 other people has been the most helpful thing I’ve done. Everything else that you mentioned does help, but the biggest impact was going from larger groups of 6-10 players down to smaller 3 - 4 player groups. A video specifically aimed at helping Autistic and neurodivergent DMs would be awesome. Keep up the amazing work guys, thank you!
Loving this so far. Thanks for leading with your experiences too, makes me feel much more comfortable with mine :)) Edit: just finished it, yup love this video. Thanks for starting this conversation and covering it so respectfully (&with v helpful actionable tips)
I totally agree with a previous comment about creating a Safe Space . Either when playing with friends or strangers, sharing your preferences and needs goes a long way - but it's sometimes hard. So thank you Dungeon Dudes for bringing this up and making everyone aware of how different we all can be ❤
Everyone I have ever told about my ADHD with auditory processing and memory is ok with it in the abstract. But the look in their eye after I’ve asked them to repeat what they said for the fourth time is tough to deal with. At the same time, I get it, it’s frustrating for me too.
A good video. I'm ND, and most of my games are online. I'm soon to run a one-shot in person, and I reckon a few are also ND. Most things that help ND people heko everyone else :)
Thank you so much Dungeon Dudes!! Deciding what to do in combat has always been a struggle of mine. What I like to do is to make a "playbook" of spells and abilities for my character. Its not exhaustive, and it won't cover every scenario, but it helps me have a flow chart or some base to go off of. That way the information is organized based on my intent or the situation, which, for me, is easier to look up and adjust on the fly. This is particularly helpful for when I'm playing a new class or if I have an overwhelming amount of options. It may seem counter intuitive, but it actually helps keep combat interesting. By reducing the mental load, it helps me spend energy towards other creative options I may have forgotten I have! I don't get overloaded just shrug my shoulders and say, "I guess I cast Eldritch blast. Again."
i think it's important to seperate neurodiversity (brain is literally different) and more temporary conditions that might cause abnormal chemical balance in the brain like depression. Everybody deserves respect and to be included, but ND's support needs to be permanent, where temporary meassures work for the rest, and it's often much less assistance needed for the latter.
This is a nice video! I appreciate the Dudes. I always suggest being gracious with the other players by asking them questions (in or out of character) to either check in, or provide an opportunity to shift the spotlight
I am a nuro divergent person. I am post graduate qualified in supporting neurodivergent students in undergraduate and post grad university studies. I am a long time d and d player and dm. I can thoroughly recommend the book - “That’s the way I think” by David grant. the irony of recommending a book is not lost on me. But the book is great. It focuses on the shared experiences of people with cognitive differences. It provides a lot of background and context to the neuro diverse experience.
I dm for kids and two are neurodivergent- I REALLY wish I knew the importance of limiting the size of the party. There are five kids and combat esp is brutal. My son struggles waiting his turn and will wander off and the other kid gets argumentative if anything doesn’t go his way. It grinds everything to a halt. ALL the kids lose track of what’s happening by the time their turn comes. I’ve made my bed and we’re rolling with it but it’s the one thing I really wish I did differently. Still highly recommend dming for kids though, seeing how it’s helped my son build friendships and how creative they all are has made it totally worth it! They’re soooo funny!
Conflicting needs are fascinating to me. My dyspraxia makes maps a hindrance to my roleplay. My brain won't process directions properly and it takes me out of the game. But they help my players, all of who are neurodivergent in different ways, a lot, so i adjust, and i delegate directional issues to one of my players. Eg. 'you take the path to the northwest' and she points out on the map where that is. And when we play on roll20, i only play alongside my housemate irl and we sit next to each other and she helps me situate myself on the map. Its frustrating accepting limitations, it can be embarrassing accepting help but it changes the world and i hope everyone can feel safe to express their needs and improve their games.
Thanks for this video Dudes. I'm really looking forward to next week's video on Neurodivergent DMing. I've stopped DMing because of my my ADHD, I would hyperfocus on building the world and scenarios for my players to the point where I would burn myself out, end up losing interest and not want to play anymore. But back to the topic at hand. As far as being a player with ADHD, as well as taking medication for it. My best tip is to be aware of what time you schedule a game and when you expect your mediation to wear off. I take slow release medication, which will last me through the day but then my D&D games will be in the evening so my medication would have worn off by this point, which means I can struggle to stay focused. Speaking to my doctor I've gotten a smaller dose I can take as and when I need it's effects to last that little bit longer.
I know this is a very unique circumstance that not everyone has access too, but for my game I use a television to display the "VTT" to my in person players. We also have an iPad that gets passed that allows players to move and measure their spells and such, it's a terrific help for my player that has aphantasia as well as the rest of us who can't focus without visual aid.
Also, some groups might actually benefit from having music, if the silence feels deafening, the music may provide some focus. Thank you for bringing this topic up, I was so excited to see it!
This is really helpful! I play with three other people who are all neurodivergent, in a group of four. We have struggled a lot with these problems and actually stopped playing. I will take these point to them to see if we can start up again. Really great video dudes!
My biggest piece of advice that has helped me out so much is to make an excellent sheet! Just put everything you character can do on that sheet in a fashion organized for you and pull it out when you want to do something. The situation where I used to take really long turns because I had to dig around a huge mess to try and remember anything I could do.
I'm a mental health practitioner for other neurodivergent folks, and I have no notes. This video was incredible! There are a lot of little things you that you have to figure out on an individual level, but this is an incredible start. All of these are actually tips I teach people to help them focus with other things too. These are solid mental health skills
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am a newer DM and all my players have ADHD. I don't have any form of ADHD, ADD, etc, so I am absolutely overwhelmed with a lot of focus issues. This really helped me understand how others might think and how I can help both them and me.
Thank you Monty and Kelly for this video. I definitely will be taking your advice to heart in future sessions. I appreciate your perspectives on multiple levels, and wish you well on your own neurodivergent journeys.
Like I'm sure many, if not most other groups, our table is full of various neurodivergent people. We shared this video in our group Discord. Thank you very much for this. I would like to mention that we have one player who is extremely neurodivergent to the point that they almost can't handle a character sheet. They love roleplaying though and they are GREAT at roleplaying their character. But they have little to no interest in the mechanics of it. So the rest of us build and keep track of the actual character sheet for them. Fortunately, some of us (especially whoever builds the character sheet) are good at remembering what general capabilities other characters have. Usually, their best friend is sitting with them with the character sheet pulled up on a tablet. When a situation comes up where their skills would be useful, we'll point out that they have an ability, and where they should be able to find it (usually without trying to say exactly what they should be using). Sometimes they remember where to look, sometimes their friend has to help them look through the sheet and find it. Once they read the ability, they usually have no problem realizing how to use it (unless it's some outlandish way we've thought of) and they get excited and say something like, "Oh yeah, I do the thing!!". It lets them enjoy the game and the company without stressing overmuch on the part they aren't good at, while those of us that are more tactically minded do what we're good at.
As a neurodivergent person this video was great and very helpful. I can’t wait for your DM advice video next week. One thing I do is turn my DM notes into a narrative. I need to do this for myself and I use it as a session review for my players. I need to do this to recap, plan, and organize. I know that this method is not for everyone, but it might be helpful for some.
I'm SO glad to see more people talking about this! 🥰 You guys have some great advice here!
A thing I've found helpful to mitigate the "long turns" and especially the "something changed right before my turn" is to encourage my players to think out loud, to communicate the strategies they're thinking about. If the wizard mentions that they're thinking about casting Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern, other players can then go "ok, yeah, let's try to get these minions in a group." Or they can say "hey, can you do this thing you did a few sessions ago? Because if you do, I can do this." To me, it takes the place of/represents the time the party would take to plan ahead, talk, get to know each other's abilities. After a while, I've found that the actual in combat conversations get much shorter, they start to name their combos, they get an actual feel for what other players are planning, etc.
That's great. Gonna try this at my own table, especially since I've been wondering how to encourage teamwork and combos more from my players. And I kinda feel like it makes sense in-world as well, for the reasons you mentioned. It's not hard to imagine the wizard yelling at their teammates to push the enemies into a small grouping.
@@3ndlessL00pI think that makes a ton of sense and is easily explainable outside of meta gaming. You travel and live alongside each other everyday. During downtime I think it perfectly reasonable that characters would discuss tactics and how to work effectively together.
@@Nexidal Exactly. In-universe, the party would likely talk to each other outside of combat: while traveling, while doing daily prep, while eating around the campfire etc. But that might not happen out-of-universe. Having them discuss tactics in combat can replace that, and hopefully they do it less over time. Otherwise, combat will take forever.
I DM a group of neurodivergent teenagers with special educational needs and disabilities as part of my job. I'm really glad to see you dudes talking about this topic. As a DM, it's exhausting, but it's an amazing game for neurodivergent learners.
DM tip for anyone with neurodivergent/SEND players: Patience is a muscle. Exercise it, nourish it, but you absolutely must take rest days.
I was inspired hearing about people who do this professionally for ADHD/ASD kids! I couldn’t find a group for my son so learned to dm on my own - it is SO exhausting but very rewarding! I know you mean a lot to them, my kid and his friends love it!
@@carissa7434 That's so wonderful that you did that for your son. D&D is as much a life skill as learning any sport or game, and your son will use it to make friends well into adulthood. I've seen it happen. Great job!
hey, i know both of you mean well, but as a person with adhd i'd like to point out that neurodivergent people who come to read these comments might not want to see ones that say how exhausting it is to play with them. dming requires lots of work regardless of who the players are, so your experiences aren't unique to having neurodivergent players, and if you think running a game for a group of neurodivergent people for few hours a week is exhausting, imagine actually being neurodivergent and having to deal with your own issues 24/7. again, i don't want to seem like i'm attacking you guys, just wishing you were a little more tactful in the comment section of a video where there are bound to be tons of neurodivergent people reading them. thanks!
@fishsticxz Shh, you're forgetting that our needs are so special and that we should be grateful that neurotypical people are so patient, considering how much less exhausting it would be for them if they didn't deal with people like us.
Seriously though, thanks for your comment and being polite about it. And yes, I am hurt and don't feel like sugar-coating it.
Dming for autists is no more exhaust than for "normal" people. They think different, but unless its very serious it doesn't hinder their ability to play. I found adhd at the table harder to deal with since i myself am on the spectrum, and as a dm i can rly get into the game, so being lenient on somebody with adhd being distracted can be difficult for me, but i try to put myself in their shoes
(Im thirty, the older you get the more you are able to deal with your own autistic tendencies lol)
Ngl I was in a really bad headspace today thinking about all the hurdles that come with being autistic and then I start doomscrolling and I see this video on my feed.
I feel a lot better now, thanks for thinking about us
Congrats on releasing a video that the autistic viewers (like me) can watch multiple times in a row as a comfort video and feel seen by
I feel the same way, it's so nice to feel accepted and welcome.
Agreed, for years i was treated like i was broken, when really i'm fine and just needed to find ppl who understand and accept that i'm different❤.
This is going straight in my repetition folder
4:30 - I wrote my honors thesis on best practices for employing neurodivergent adults (and am autistic myself), and the #1 takeaway was that creating a safe space to openly communicate needs and then collaboratively figuring out how to meet them has a massive impact on the success of ND individuals. But what’s more, those same practices benefit everyone around them because - surprise - everyone has unique needs, communication styles, etc. and talking about them is super helpful.
In my experience as both a player and a DM, the same holds true at TTRPG tables. Sometimes I need accommodation because I’m experiencing sensory overload or a shutdown - sometimes I need it because I just didn’t sleep well or work was extra busy. Regardless of the reason, I feel incredibly thankful for playing at a table that prioritizes communicating these things and adapting to whatever keeps the game fun for everyone, whether that’s a short-term adjustment or changing how we play altogether.
I'm curious if any companies employ practices like this. In my experience letting your employer know you are neurodivergent is the worst thing you can do. They will find any excuse to replace you as soon as possible
@@chowell365 Personally my results have been mixed, and often more dependent on individual managers than a broader company philosophy/statement. A really effective manager understands that when their employees are playing to their strengths and getting their needs met, their output will be better and reflect positively on the manager. Some work cultures foster that mindset better than others, but you can find good/bad leaders anywhere. Some companies also have dedicated ND hiring programs that come with built-in supports, though those still tend to be pretty narrowly focused on early career people in technical fields. (I’m a mid-career HR professional, so usually not their target demographic.)
Have you invented a delivery system that would let me beam your thesis directly into my manager's brain? It would resolve a lot of issues. (If only that were a possibility!)
YES! I dont see why you would need to dm differently for autism. What applies here applies to everyone. Every person has their own behaviours and needs, regardless of mental problems. Dming for an autist or having and autist as a dm can sometimes be easier than other people depending on how they feel.
@@sloesty To be clear, I absolutely believe that an autistic player likely has different needs than a non-autistic player (or even another autistic player, because autism can look a lot of different ways). But an environment where the autistic player can safely communicate their needs and have them met is also going to benefit everyone else, because they then get to do the same. Which I think is largely what this video boils down to, with the addition of some helpful tips for those who may not realize they’re allowed to do things that make the game easier for them (or even know what those things are) because they’ve only been told how they’re “supposed to” play.
Honestly, even as a neurotypical player, I sometimes struggle with things like doing math quickly or deciding what to do on my turn when something has suddenly changed, and getting told to hurry up just makes me feel embarrassed and guilty. Please, please never forget to have empathy, understanding, and patience for everyone at your table and beyond.
I should tell you that the Monsters of Drakkenheim is something that both of my sons want me to kickstart. We watched the video after your panel discussion at GaryCon. You met me and my younger son at the convention. Both sons are neurodivergent to some degree. Great video topic.
Something I will immediately latch onto, for visual aids:
This doesn't *just* mean maps and/or minis. You might find it helpful to consider the following:
- An Initiative tracker.
- Spell, ability, and magic item cards.
- Spell slot/class ability trackers/tokens.
- Sketches of (N)PC's for a visual reference.
- A flow-chart of your character's combat strategy.
- Cards that you flip over to say whether you're concentrating on a spell, currently raging, or even in- or out-of-character.
- Cards that show your character's current mood.
Also, another tip from me: Write all your notes, backstory, physical description, et cetera in first person. This is a little brain-hack that helps you get into character.
I love the phone analogy for introversion. So many people don’t understand what being an introvert is like and think that if you are friendly and cheerful that it’s odd when you reach your limit and want to retreat.
To make things worse, they sometimes will try to “pump you up” to get you more excited - not realizing this just drains your battery further.
I had a job that was super heavy on customer interaction (think call centre) and at lunch I'd retreat to the corner of the lunch room to read a book and try to recoup a spoon or two. I had to get very blunt with the well-meaning extroverts who thought they were nobly rescuing me from my solitude by making inane conversation with me when I was trying to read. Apparently there are acceptable ways to reject conversation, but it took me a while to find those. "Thanks, but I need some quiet time," = Acceptable. "What makes you think you're better company than Terry Pratchett?" = Unacceptable. Wailing wordlessly in frustration and turning to face the wall = Quite Rude, apparently?
@@katecritt You remind me of an incident in the coffee room at work, one Friday afternoon several decades ago.
Me: Four days.
Colleague A: Four days? Really?
Colleague B: [Quizzical expression]
Me: Yes, I think four days is the realistic maximum.
A: Ah. OK.
B: What are you two on about?
Me: The time before your body will be found.
A: [Nods]
B: B-body? Uhh?
Me: It's been a long week. For the ten minutes since the kettle boiled, A and I have been enjoying a companiable silence. No talk. Not a single word. Just silent relaxation over a couple of mugs of tea. Then you came in, saw two quiet people in an otherwise empty room, and chose to break the silence while your coffee brewed. You didn't ask. You just started wittering on about the audio cables you bought for your new hi-fi speakers, a subject that neither A nor I know anything about let alone care about. The most insipid, vapid subject possible. Then, when you sat down at our table and it was clear that you were going to carry on talking even when you were getting no response whatsoever from either of us, A and I looked at each other and realised that we were thinking the same thing: that if we killed you and tipped your body out of the window onto the first-floor ledge, which is barely overlooked by any other window, how much peace and quiet would we get before your body was found?
A: Four days. Because of the smell.
Me: Four days.
B: I... I'll go and d-drink this in my office.
A: [Silence]
Me: [Silence]
Pumping up sometimes works just because of hyper fixation. Depends on the person, as always.
Learning that these guys are neurodivergent adds another reason as to why I love this channel so much. I'm autistic and I've been playing D&D for a couple years now. Having maps for combat helps out so much. I also agree that group size is a major factor. As much as I love Critical Role, having smaller groups works so well for me. Thanks so much for making this video!
I ran my first game this past Sunday. Lost Mine of Phandelver, session 0 and chapter 1.
We took a break after character questions+the Goblin Ambush to have lunch.
I needed that bowl of soup and quick break, it gave me all the chill I needed to run the investigation and Cragmaw hideout.
I did almost everything sitting down, and it was fine. I stood up when my players ran into the wolves because my legs were tired.
Standing allowed me to play the goblins and wolves and stuff with a lot more gusto, and I feel like that improved the game because my fun translated to my players’ entertainment, they got more creative with the environment.
I commented before you added pre and post game:
I did voice warm ups and was pacing to get me hype pre-game.
I needed a cup of ice cream, a smoke, and some quiet afterwards.
As someone who works for a Learning Disability and Autism charity you guys certainly sound like experts to me.
Accessibility, kindness, patience and understanding - this is the whole thing. in my line of work there's something called being "person centred" and these are all the core principles. It's not about the labels, but the needs. And DnD should be fun and that means being person centred about everyone at the table.
Thank you for your kind words.
@@DungeonDudes noooo thank you both for continuing to be some of the most ethical, thoughtful, and helpful people on the internet.
I'm not lying when I say that the advice in your videos are more than just DnD tips. A lot of them apply to other aspects of people's lives. You're teaching respect and consideration, and that is priceless on a platform filled with content focussed on drama and anger. Plus, you've created an incredible and rich world - what's not to like? :)
When playing with my friends in person, I used to have to do an extra task like doing the dishes or cleaning while listening to other people’s turns and waiting for my turn. This used to frustrate my friends because they thought I was not paying attention, and this was like seven years before I got my official diagnosis of ADHD.
It all makes so much sense now! But sometimes when you’re in it, you don’t know why you need to not just SIT THERE. It’s nice to play with people who are patient with you ❤
They think you’re not paying attention until nobody else notices and they hear “you forgot to add a d4 for bless” from the other room
@@stephenwells2464 Hahahaha soooo true!
A Tuesday episode 2 weeks in a row, new Drakkenheim episode, a new kickstarter and a livestream all in one day? I must be dreaming and I don’t want to wake up!
I'm so happy to see so much attention being given to the intersection of TTRPGs and neurodivergence (what I call being neuro-dicey).
Did you guys know there's a whole podcast about this topic? (ADHD20 at the Pocket Dimension.) And Ginny Di did a video on this too.
I hope all the neuro-dicey people end up engaging with each other more and talking about their own experiences. There really are a lot of us, and we never stop needing the validation and advice that others may have.
Thanks for posting this video.
Yeeeeeees! MOAR NEURODICEY FRIENDS! Thanks for the shout-out 💖
This makes my li'l heart so happy!
Friend Eadric!! Thanks for this, and absolutely agree about all of us finding the intersection between ADHD (and others!) and TTRPGs and then banding together and taking over the world or whatever. I actually had the honor of playing a game with the Dudes at Gamehole Con (the EXCELLENT Ragnaborg, by Erica Lowe) and we talked for a second about the shocking number of folks that game have ADHD, so I'm really glad that Kelly and Monty made this video of great tips!
Obviously I wrote my comment before realizing the Dudes *did* mention Ginny's video, b/c I have to pause and comment immediately or I'll forget my comments later!
Y'all disliking this video should do some introspection as to why you feel so negatively about Dungeon Dudes talking about neurodivergent people. It's not "pandering" to acknowledge these players exist and offer specific advice for them, not every video is for you, and that is okay.
I like to play characters that are usually not so great in face to face conversations but share their emotions through subtle gestures or actions. I usually am pretty bad at expressing emotions in realtime so describing actions which imply that my character is stressed, agry, sad or happy is usally easier. and it more often then not leads to some fun group dynamics, because the other characters are more or less able to decypher my gestures and act accordingly.
Also this is how stuff is well written e.g., & can create some much more profound impacts with the imagery of it. I do the same with my characters
I set up (and was DM for a long time) for a group of neurodivergent players. The biggest barrier initially was using theatre of mind exclusively, some of my players find it difficult (or impossible) to picture stuff in their heads (some of my autistic players) and some got distracted, so missed key facts (ADHD). I’ve found using an app like Roll20 is far more forgiving for neurodivergent players, as it also means you can catch up on what is going on without constantly feeling like you need to ask for updates (which causes some people social anxiety).
Really interested to hear your thoughts and thanks for putting something like this out- it’ll leave a lot of people feeling supported/validated and help a lot of DMs who might be struggling.
I feel that about the music and flashing lights. One thing I like about Foundry is that I can have music for my players and mute it for myself. A lot of my players like music, so this is great. Everybody gets to experience their preference. Now if only I could configure it so that spell effects only show for players who want them. I don't do spell effects on the vtt as I find it super disruptive to my concentration
I like effects but they have huge internet delays. Making it feel more and more like a video game is great for me.
Thank you for saying that as almost your first sentence! Is this why I have been so happy to follow you for about 3 years? NOW I know why this is my favourite D&D channel!
I am an autistic DM and I have been running a weekly 2 hour game for teenagers and a 2 hour game every other week for 2 separate groups of autistic adults for 2-3 years. Here are things I found particularly helpful for my groups:
Take regular breaks (especially for the teenagers - we find it really helps if they have a 2-3 minute break every half hour) With the adults we break for a few minutes half way through the session and people can get up and walk around outside the room whenever they want
Use visual aids - the sessions invariably go better if there is a map (not necessarily terrain). I LOVE theatre of the mind but a lot of neurodivergent people can't keep the information needed for tactical play in their heads
Don't use too much sensory input - atmospheric music is great but many neurodivergent people can't cope with too much sensory stimulation
Do a Session Zero! and then do session re-zeros! and then ask the groups regularly how they thing the sessions are going, what could be improved etc. Don't forget raising lines and veils, but understand that it might only be when the situation comes up that a neurodivergent person wants to raise it. Distribute cards and allow people to show them when they are uncomfortable, rather than always expect them to say things aloud
Offer sensitive advice to inexperienced or anxious players. Many neurodivergent players, even adults, are unused to choosing from a wide range of options, and would like them sensitively narrowed down
Allow people who are anxious role-players to say "my character would like to do this" - although as a DM I ALWAYS try to call people by their character name, so that my players get used to it
Try and find a simpler version of a D&D character sheet online - focus on the essential character sheet information and use lots of visual aids on it. If you're creative, try making a 2-3 page simplified sheet. The standard D&D sheet is very wordy and overwhelming for many neurodivergent players
As a DM with two players who are neurodivergent - I HIGHLY appreciate this video! ❤
I think this is a great video for both neurodiverse and neurotypical people, as patience and empathy is something we should all have for one another.
NOTE CARDS for your abilities/maneuvers/fighting style/feats! I find that it can be really hard for me to figure out where those things are on a character sheet, so having individual notecards I can lay out around me as I play that have a short description on one side (is it a reaction? how does it activate? is it damage or advantage/disadvantage?) and then the entire, word-for-word description on the other side is really helpful in me 1) remembering what abilities I have and 2) being able to quickly scan the specifics of what it can do.
Also, I find it helpful to draw out a minimal character sheet that has everything organized in a way that makes sense to my brain - so I have everything that replenishes on a short rest with a circle next to it that I can check off with pencil (or for things like superiority dice, have x amount of circles I cross out as I use them), that way on a short rest, I can just erase all my pencil marks and we're all nice and rested. I like doing this with spell slots as well because I find physically x-ing out when I use one much more helpful than the dots that are mixed in with all the names of the spells - making the slots more minimal helps my brain process it better. I also add important spell stuff to this as well such as beast companion stats if I frequently use those types of spells.
Added to that 'minimal' character sheet is stuff my party can do. We have a twilight cleric with their temp HP, so a cheat sheet of how many HP I get at the end of my turn (as well as an indication if it's on) and also the bard's bardic inspiration and what I can add to my roll if I use it. Having all that stuff on it's own separate sheet instead of interspersed with a huge wall of text I have to scroll through desperately trying to find the right thing is super helpful to me. The walls of text are very overwhelming and I feel like I can never find anything, so abilities are just forgotten and never thought of again - but with the minimal character sheet and note cards, it streamlines the info for my brain and works out much better!
My issue is that I get bored if all that is happening is talking and discussing what to do rather than.... actually doing it. I need that stimulation of action, activity, and rolling to keep my focus on the game otherwise my mind wanders and I start thinking about other things, or really hone in on possible ideas on how to do things that never happen. On the bright side, this also means I'm often thinking a lot on how to solve certain problems..... but I end up being quiet and seem non-participative, and that's very hard for people to tell what's going on in online tabletop.
I fucking hate prep sessions where you in character waste the whole game session, damn 4 hours, planning how you will break into the corporate building (damn you Shadowrun). I have no patience for people who overplan and GMs who encourage this.
Recently I've just said my players in high level dnd campaign "screw your plans guys, no planning, you go in this heist at the beginning of the session, and you have Flashbacks which you can spent". I found some forked system for this built upon Blades in the Dark and it worked. People did things, not preparing and speaking about it, they did things.
It was a blast, oh gods I cannot just sit and listening about plans
My wife is similar in that she'll lose focus during less "active" portions of play. She helps mitigate this by taking up some sort of trivial IRL activity, such as cross stitching, where she can keep her hands busy and be *doing something* while still being able to keep her cognitive attention at the table.
This obviously is easier while playing virtually, but I think with bit of communication among your table, you could help manage your focus without seeming distracted.
Yeah the roleplaying aspect is what I’ve always really struggled with. It’s not even that I’m just not comfortable doing it (I mean, I’m not, but that’s a trait that can be acquired through practice).
One reason is just that I’m incapable of completing a social interaction in real life, but the other more problematic reason is that I always struggle with putting together a complete character. It’s always half-myself and my ideals. I might know how I might respond in some situations, but that’s not my character. The usual response to this is people telling me that I need to develop my character better and figure them out, but that’s exactly the problem. I just feel like I’m incapable of doing so, mostly because I don’t really feel like I understand how normal people operate. I don’t know, it’s hard for me to express this in words, so D&D has always been tough for me and I’ve only ever been in a few campaigns because of it.
key designations and respecting priority order...... when you or someone else is in the middle of a action and that gets interrupted multiple times it can really mentally exhaust and break attention and flow..... a clear outline on the way interactions go and sticking with them is a big one....
Shout out to my fellow autistic DMs & players!
The biggest barrier that I've encountered is how much out-of-game chatter at the table destroys my character immersion. My brain is incapable of ignoring any conversation that happens within my earshot, and while in life I'm perfectly comfortable actively participating in multiple conversations at once (something that weirds out my step-mom, haha), I can't do that while maintaining a character. I need to be able to stay in the scene, or at least have anything external kept to a minimum.
I got heavily into roleplaying in college, along with a whole bunch of my friends, and we played in loads of games with different permutations of the group. I love them all dearly, I'm still friends with most 20 years later, and I absolutely adore that we could just chat on and on and on and on... but there are a good chunk of them that I realized I simply couldn't game with, because they wanted a beer & pretzels experience, and I need a focused one. Nothing wrong with that style of game, of course; it just doesn't work for me.
And that's an important thing to keep in mind in general, I think. Just because you're friends with someone doesn't mean you are a good fit for a D&D table, and that's okay.
I feel like a majority of players fall into this camp.
Is this an insult?
@@thatguymatt5816 I mean, you see the crazy stuff we do in games, right? Something's for sure different with most of us. 🤣
@@thatguymatt5816y would saying that players are neurodivergent be an insult?
We’re kind of a pack of weirdos💚💙💜
@@thatguymatt5816 Not necessarily, I think the complexity of ttrpg rules appeals to certain types of people
On the flip side, DnD provides a safe pretense for us socially anxious folks
I'm autistic and struggle with role-playing in real time. It helps me to think about some situations my character could be in and have some lines written down to respond to those situations. It could even be something really vague like "party member does something dumb" or "enemy tries to tempt me." I just like to have some lines to fall back on if I freeze up in the game.
Also, it helps me to have a fidget toy while playing. I've actually started figeting with just two d20s, rolling them around in my hand. It helps me focus when I'm listening.
It’s scripting but for fun! I do this too (as both a player and a DM) and it’s super helpful.
:0 i should try this
I'm glad y'all are doing a video for neurodivergent DMs as well. I'm new to it, and like Kelly, I shut down when things don't go according to plan, so you can imagine what it's like for me when I'm behind the screen🙃
I have days where I just "can't" and I have days where I'm on fire and can't seem to slow down. I'm all over the place at times. In between it all I try to find ways to decompress and relax. Maybe it's the kids, working nights or just life. I'm 50 years old as of this writing, but have never been officially diagnosed as neurodivergent. But I'm pretty sure I am.
Taking breaks when feeling overwhelmed is essential, but so is fueling the fires of inspiration when they arise. I have a kid who has been diagnosed with ADHD and this has helped A LOT dealing with that as well as my own issues.
Thank you for this video.
As the NT Dungeon Master for a variety of ND players, I really appreciate you guys talking about all of this.
The music point in particular was really helpful: for me, music helps to set the scene and get my mind in the action; it helps keep me engaged during combat, and makes things more cinematic. Learning that it could be distracting for players with ADHD helps me to be more aware, and I'll definitely share this video with my players and have a conversation about possible accommodations that I can make to the game. I want to ensure that we're all having the best D&D possible, after all!
You are both such excellent advocates for our community; thank you for being a thoughtful pair of voices!
Calling out scented candles is an interesting thing we haven't run into for my group! But we don't use them for specific moods, we use them because ONE of our cats has the most ferociously bad smelling poops. We had a random Twisted Peppermint from Bath And Body Works that worked SUPER well for covering it up. The bad stonk previously and on more than one occasion brought the session to a brief halt while we Febrezed to little effect
You absolute legends. Thank you for making the TTRPG space even more inclusive.
An important point is that not only might people not be comfortable sharing their ND condition, they may also not be aware of it or not be willing to acknowledge it due to stigma. ND isn't something that develops later, it's always present. Late diagnosis especially for autism is very common I think.
I have high functioning autism and ADHD. honestly 5 is my limit when it comes to group size. And I have to struggle not to make my characters too powerful, or a more recent idea in dnd, the idea of nerfing myself to let other people shine. In a small group of 3-4, I could fixate and play for 6 hours plus easily. Especially if there's a lot of combat.
You sound extremely similar to me.
I’m a neurodivergent DM who runs a group of all neurodivergent players. The best thing I have found that works for my group is actually turning off the lights. There are some lights that are so harsh It can be exhausting for us. So we have a projector that projects all of our maps on a whiteboard with magnets for tokens and the use of laser pointers so everyone can see and ask questions about what’s going on.
Wow. Neurodivergent here too. Thank you for coming out and for having this episode. :)
Ya know you've hit everything I can imagine. My whole table including me as DM has some form of neurodivergency. We do 2 hours sessions, sometimes even less, and frequent 5min breaks, and ut works wonders. Only think I would add - is check on physical energy. Once I planned a one shot that we were gonna do after ALL DAY at a Ren Fair. On paper, it sounded like a day of amazing fantasy. After the festival, driving, turning hotel room into a game environment - we played like 30 mins and we all hated it lol!!! I think individual levels are important too. Personally, if I have even 1 player who expresses they're exhausted, we usually call it. Golden rule - no DnD is better than bad DnD. Anyway thanks guys! God tier stuff as always
Thank you dungeon dudes for this. I just went to an orientation for a new job, and the first thing was IBCCES certification (autism awareness training). As someone who is nuerodivergant it's nice to see more awareness about it.
Bipolar DM here. I appreciate this video, and I feel like being neurodiverse myself allows me to better assist my neurodiverse party. Thanks for making this video.
Yes! As a bipolar player and newbie DM, I feel better equipped to deal with others in similar situations. Getting ready to run my second campaign ever. We should call it the Bipolar Express, but it's really Dungeons of Drakkenheim.
The thumbnail made me laugh very hard, great vid :)
Very important advice in your Take Breaks section. There's definitely a moment where many of us just run out of steam, and I think for most people, there's really no warning, or else the warning signs are extremely subtle and hard to notice (especially when we're not used to looking for them). But when it happens, it's like a switch has been flipped, and we're just DONE.
I'd love to hear if you guys have noticed any signs of that moment coming so you can quickly take measures like telling people you need to break or leave or stop or whatnot.
It took playing 5e with two of my adult children and their friends who are ALL some flavor of Neurodivergent to figure out my husband and I are also Neurodivergent. We always use maps and minis. While I can do TOOM, like when we play Masks, I prefer the physical representation. We keep fidget toys on the toys to help focus. Music would definitely distract at least some of us .
Great video! I'm so happy you took the time to talk about this topic.
It made me realize there's 5 neurodivergent guys at my table (including myself) and although we all obviously see it, accept we're strange birds, and instinctively make accommodations because we all have a lifetime of coping, I've never really stopped and honestly acknowledged it and made an intentional effort.
You guys brought up so many great ideas, can't wait for the GM prep! Thank you.
Thank you for mentioning group size! Having autism, I tried big groups and it doesn't work (I can definitely see the appeal, though). With smaller groups (three including our DM) not only do you get more game time in, but the mental "static" of having more people at the table makes it hard to breathe sometimes.
Ooh ooh, talking about the physical dice calculator - I had this idea before, & figured you could (not too complicatedly) just have some sorta clear dice tray with a camera beneath & simply train it to recognise shape of dice & numbers rolled (& then have tables per die size to work out what the Top number rolled would be from the bottom one that the camera sees).
The benefit of the camera being that you can use most any dice sets with it (easy to train by the creators just rolling tons of types, manually flagging what each number & die size are into a learning algorithm).
Someone please make this, it'd be sick
Hello we are the Divergent Dudes!!
I love it and am here for it!!
As a neurodivergent DM who seems to have one group of fellow neurodivergents, and another group of people who definitely *seem* neurotypical, I'm definitely waiting to see that DM prep video
It's probably my favorite video thus far. Keep up the great work, and thank you for being brave enough to start this dialog!
Removing distractions also includes off-topic table talk! A lot of people, especially neurodivergent people, cannot focus on "taking their turn" if other people at the table are loudly discussing comic books or movies.
Thank you so much for this video. I think it's very important to shed light on this topic. In my experience, playing Pen&Paper can also have a sort of therapeutic effect on neurodivergent players - experiencing social situations of all sorts within a safe space of a group of friends playing a game can make a huge difference.
you guys are already my favorite youtube creators and seeing this video makes me so happy. that's a very important discussion that is rarely talked about and one the biggest struggles that some and of my friends (and myself) face when play this beautiful game.
A big one for playing online that I've heard is that it is very helpful for ND players for everyone to have a webcam
I started watching you guys about 6 months ago, and something about your approach really resonated with me. Your videos helped me reengage with D&D as a hobby for the first time in over a decade, but while that in of itself is awesome, I have never been as big of a fan of your channel as I am right now. Thanks for this video!!!!!
As a DM I always appreciate having my players take notes and read them off as a recap at the start of sessions. Also since it's so easy to forget about starting or changing music I always love when one of my players reminds me about that
“Turn down the music, I can’t read the address”
Now, I LOVE music. I’m a musician, and have 16+ years of AV for events. I’ve learned that music while playing is very distracting to myself, but I still love it. So, I have a few tips for this:
If you have music while actively playing, avoid lyrics. Use instrumentals. I find the extra words in the air being presented at me to really throws me off. This goes along with my AV background where if we had background music, we would turn down a lot of midrange to not interfere with the same pitch/frequencies of human voice communication.
As a DM, use music to bring your players into a scene or cut-scene, then fade out. I did this with the Rick and Morty intro running the D&D vs Rick and Morty. Players loved it. I found that music after that was too distracting to myself, so I kept it off most of the time. There are great times to blast the music, grabbing your players’ attention, but then when it’s grabbed, fade it out so people can concentrate
🤘🎲🤘
It is very helpful for those deeper into the community to talk about these issues and help give options for work arounds for when these things happen. I have found that DMing has helped me soooo much in my life and with work. I'm no longer so shy, I think better on my feet and have used things from the table at my job that help me with management level decisions. Great video my dudes.
My neurodivergent ass realizing that I don't have enough time on my lunch to finish the video so I crank the playback speed all the way up and following along better than at normal speed...
Wow almost never hear about dysgraphia. Thanks for recognizing it.
Really wish I could do my own character art, but literally can't draw a straight line. HeroForge actually really helps with this, and has really helped me feel like I can actually bring a visualization to life. Could use AI but ... I have trouble getting over the ethics of AI training datasets, for me personally.
Yeah, it's less common than dyslexia or dyscalculia , and rarely diagnosed without one or both of the other two, or at least that's what they told me when I was diagnosed.
thank you for considering artists and not using AI tools to create your character art! using tools like heroforge or reroll or even picrews for visualizing your character supports the real artists who created the assets for this exact purpose! and if you are in a good situation money-wise, you can always directly commission an artist to draw your character for you, without any of the limitations of ready-made assets.
I’m autistic, and also prefer smaller group sizes. 4 players + a DM is ideal. But larger tables have worked for me _if_ the dungeon master is good at helping players be able to talk. As in, encouraging loose turns outside of combat, and asking quieter players if they have any ideas. Large groups are extremely difficult for me to talk in (I have either listen mode or talk mode, and the more people there are the harder it is to switch between modes without missing anything), so that little step of just asking if I have an idea is _so_ helpful.
Tables where I don’t have to sit close to anyone are also helpful. The proximity to another person is very distracting, and drains my battery quicker.
I _can_ put up with music at a table, but it also drains my battery quicker, and makes it hard to make decisions.
I appreciate the comments on creative writing. My campaign ideas comes in spurts, sometimes unexpectedly, so I have notepads everywhere to capturing ideas. I can't sit down and just be 'creative.' And I have found that a lot of my best ideas come when I am outdoors, whether hiking in the wilderness, or just sitting in the park in the sunshine. Being away from distractions is a big help, and being outdoors inspires me.
And I really appreciate the comments on party size. Having only three players is one of the reason I really enjoy your gaming sessions. The pacing is better, there is more chances for individual players to shine and the combat does not turn into laborious slogs. I never do campaigns with more than 4 players, and in a few cases we have had two players running two characters, and that has proven to be great fun, as well.
Great video!
All the tips are great, and even as a non-neurodivergent DM I already use some (player makes the recap) and will probably include others. But what I liked most about the video is the genuine care and affection portrayed between the two of you, all the ways of saying "this is me caring about him", for example the music being more muted if a certain player is present, such a great dynamic. I absolutely love the way you two interact with each other, it makes for such a wholesome watch experience.
Love that you guys are talking about this. I’ve always appreciated how open you both are about topics like this. Your videos are so easy to listen and watch for my Autistic and ADHD self. I’ve learned so much at TTRPG’s and my self as well.
I'm glad you guys are finally making this video! I feel like you've been slowly building to it for years and it's great to see
I have a party of 7 and most of them have ADHD. This is a really helpful video!
Maybe you should be more concerned about why everyone in the West has these problems while everywhere else they aren't, rather than focusing on being a better D&Der?
May the gods bless you child.
Y'all, this is the first time I've seen anyone discuss this topic outside of the D&D Therapy channels. Thank you thank you thank you!
For music I find that it works really well in online games where everybody can adjust their own volume on their headset. Different people may prefer the music to be more or less loud over the conversation, and sometimes you just wanna turn it off completely when it becomes too much. This way you can do that without any hassle, without having to break out of character and ask or discuss, and others can still enjoy some background music if they want it.
I’ve watched a lot of your videos and they are always fun, but this is by far the most useful as an aspiring DM. As I’m learning my role I’m realizing that knowing the needs and wants of each player are as and maybe even a tiny bit more important than me knowing every detail of the game. Videos that give concrete tips that actually make my role easier are incredibly helpful.
One thing I've noticed a lot is when there's a lot happening and a bunch of dice are rolled, some people's brains just shut down. Like if in any other situation they'd be able to figure it out in two seconds, but amid chaos, 'what even are numbers'.
So it really helps if you say what the numbers you rolled are aloud, then everyone else who isn't having remember your character sheet can do the math for you, then all you need to do is add your bonuses. Gets everyone involved and makes the game go faster.
I've been playing with a group online since 2020, and before that we played in person. I think there are definitely drawbacks or issues people might have with online play, BUT I think it also fixed a lot of issues.
Players can mute themselves or hide their camera, which helps a lot when some players need to fidget or stem or snack. Muting yourself when you need to play with a clicker fidget can help prevent other players who get really frustrated or distracted by specific noises, and having a mute button is a game changer for when I need to snack but another player has misophonia.
As an online only player, one of the things that helped me most was being able to switch from Voice chat to just Text chat. I can struggle with verbally communicating if/when I start to get overwhelmed so having another option for communication really helped to still participate.
Simply wanted to say thank you for making this video. As someone who is autistic I really appreciate the effort and support you guys are putting out there in this regard. You covered broadly everything that I would have wanted to have said as well as needed to hear said. I think the best and most helpful step that I was able to figure out eventually a few years ago, that you mentioned, was to keep the groups smaller. Playing with anywhere from 1-3 other people has been the most helpful thing I’ve done. Everything else that you mentioned does help, but the biggest impact was going from larger groups of 6-10 players down to smaller 3 - 4 player groups. A video specifically aimed at helping Autistic and neurodivergent DMs would be awesome.
Keep up the amazing work guys, thank you!
Loving this so far. Thanks for leading with your experiences too, makes me feel much more comfortable with mine :))
Edit: just finished it, yup love this video. Thanks for starting this conversation and covering it so respectfully (&with v helpful actionable tips)
I totally agree with a previous comment about creating a Safe Space . Either when playing with friends or strangers, sharing your preferences and needs goes a long way - but it's sometimes hard. So thank you Dungeon Dudes for bringing this up and making everyone aware of how different we all can be ❤
Oh no wonder why enjoy your guy's videos. Its because you're my peoples
Everyone I have ever told about my ADHD with auditory processing and memory is ok with it in the abstract. But the look in their eye after I’ve asked them to repeat what they said for the fourth time is tough to deal with. At the same time, I get it, it’s frustrating for me too.
A good video. I'm ND, and most of my games are online. I'm soon to run a one-shot in person, and I reckon a few are also ND. Most things that help ND people heko everyone else :)
Been following you guys for years and I gotta say, this is probably one of the most important videos that y'all have put out. Great work!
Thank you so much Dungeon Dudes!!
Deciding what to do in combat has always been a struggle of mine.
What I like to do is to make a "playbook" of spells and abilities for my character.
Its not exhaustive, and it won't cover every scenario, but it helps me have a flow chart or some base to go off of.
That way the information is organized based on my intent or the situation, which, for me, is easier to look up and adjust on the fly.
This is particularly helpful for when I'm playing a new class or if I have an overwhelming amount of options.
It may seem counter intuitive, but it actually helps keep combat interesting.
By reducing the mental load, it helps me spend energy towards other creative options I may have forgotten I have!
I don't get overloaded just shrug my shoulders and say, "I guess I cast Eldritch blast. Again."
i think it's important to seperate neurodiversity (brain is literally different) and more temporary conditions that might cause abnormal chemical balance in the brain like depression.
Everybody deserves respect and to be included, but ND's support needs to be permanent, where temporary meassures work for the rest, and it's often much less assistance needed for the latter.
So glad that you are making this video as so many players fall into this category. Thank you
This is a nice video! I appreciate the Dudes. I always suggest being gracious with the other players by asking them questions (in or out of character) to either check in, or provide an opportunity to shift the spotlight
I am a nuro divergent person. I am post graduate qualified in supporting neurodivergent students in undergraduate and post grad university studies. I am a long time d and d player and dm. I can thoroughly recommend the book - “That’s the way I think” by David grant. the irony of recommending a book is not lost on me. But the book is great. It focuses on the shared experiences of people with cognitive differences. It provides a lot of background and context to the neuro diverse experience.
I dm for kids and two are neurodivergent- I REALLY wish I knew the importance of limiting the size of the party. There are five kids and combat esp is brutal. My son struggles waiting his turn and will wander off and the other kid gets argumentative if anything doesn’t go his way. It grinds everything to a halt. ALL the kids lose track of what’s happening by the time their turn comes. I’ve made my bed and we’re rolling with it but it’s the one thing I really wish I did differently. Still highly recommend dming for kids though, seeing how it’s helped my son build friendships and how creative they all are has made it totally worth it! They’re soooo funny!
This is the perfect video for me, my partner, and many of my loved ones into the game. Thanks for making this, you guys continue to be the best!
Conflicting needs are fascinating to me. My dyspraxia makes maps a hindrance to my roleplay. My brain won't process directions properly and it takes me out of the game.
But they help my players, all of who are neurodivergent in different ways, a lot, so i adjust, and i delegate directional issues to one of my players. Eg. 'you take the path to the northwest' and she points out on the map where that is.
And when we play on roll20, i only play alongside my housemate irl and we sit next to each other and she helps me situate myself on the map.
Its frustrating accepting limitations, it can be embarrassing accepting help but it changes the world and i hope everyone can feel safe to express their needs and improve their games.
the Venn diagram for neurodivergent people and dnd players is a circle lol
Thanks for this video Dudes. I'm really looking forward to next week's video on Neurodivergent DMing. I've stopped DMing because of my my ADHD, I would hyperfocus on building the world and scenarios for my players to the point where I would burn myself out, end up losing interest and not want to play anymore.
But back to the topic at hand. As far as being a player with ADHD, as well as taking medication for it. My best tip is to be aware of what time you schedule a game and when you expect your mediation to wear off. I take slow release medication, which will last me through the day but then my D&D games will be in the evening so my medication would have worn off by this point, which means I can struggle to stay focused. Speaking to my doctor I've gotten a smaller dose I can take as and when I need it's effects to last that little bit longer.
I know this is a very unique circumstance that not everyone has access too, but for my game I use a television to display the "VTT" to my in person players. We also have an iPad that gets passed that allows players to move and measure their spells and such, it's a terrific help for my player that has aphantasia as well as the rest of us who can't focus without visual aid.
Also, some groups might actually benefit from having music, if the silence feels deafening, the music may provide some focus.
Thank you for bringing this topic up, I was so excited to see it!
This is really helpful! I play with three other people who are all neurodivergent, in a group of four. We have struggled a lot with these problems and actually stopped playing. I will take these point to them to see if we can start up again. Really great video dudes!
As someone was diagnosed with Asperger's as a kid, i appreciate the transparency that you guys are taking with topic.
My biggest piece of advice that has helped me out so much is to make an excellent sheet! Just put everything you character can do on that sheet in a fashion organized for you and pull it out when you want to do something. The situation where I used to take really long turns because I had to dig around a huge mess to try and remember anything I could do.
I'm a mental health practitioner for other neurodivergent folks, and I have no notes. This video was incredible! There are a lot of little things you that you have to figure out on an individual level, but this is an incredible start. All of these are actually tips I teach people to help them focus with other things too. These are solid mental health skills
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am a newer DM and all my players have ADHD. I don't have any form of ADHD, ADD, etc, so I am absolutely overwhelmed with a lot of focus issues. This really helped me understand how others might think and how I can help both them and me.
Thank you Monty and Kelly for this video. I definitely will be taking your advice to heart in future sessions. I appreciate your perspectives on multiple levels, and wish you well on your own neurodivergent journeys.
Like I'm sure many, if not most other groups, our table is full of various neurodivergent people. We shared this video in our group Discord. Thank you very much for this.
I would like to mention that we have one player who is extremely neurodivergent to the point that they almost can't handle a character sheet. They love roleplaying though and they are GREAT at roleplaying their character. But they have little to no interest in the mechanics of it. So the rest of us build and keep track of the actual character sheet for them. Fortunately, some of us (especially whoever builds the character sheet) are good at remembering what general capabilities other characters have. Usually, their best friend is sitting with them with the character sheet pulled up on a tablet. When a situation comes up where their skills would be useful, we'll point out that they have an ability, and where they should be able to find it (usually without trying to say exactly what they should be using). Sometimes they remember where to look, sometimes their friend has to help them look through the sheet and find it. Once they read the ability, they usually have no problem realizing how to use it (unless it's some outlandish way we've thought of) and they get excited and say something like, "Oh yeah, I do the thing!!". It lets them enjoy the game and the company without stressing overmuch on the part they aren't good at, while those of us that are more tactically minded do what we're good at.
As a neurodivergent person this video was great and very helpful. I can’t wait for your DM advice video next week.
One thing I do is turn my DM notes into a narrative. I need to do this for myself and I use it as a session review for my players. I need to do this to recap, plan, and organize. I know that this method is not for everyone, but it might be helpful for some.