North America is FINALLY getting with the times!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2023
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Decades after platform screen doors started being introduced in systems across the world, Toronto is finally retrofitting them in, and I am extremely excited!
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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!
Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.
One of scariest stories my Dad ever told me was when he was in the NYC subway waiting for his train and some sketchy dude came up behind him and shoved him. He was trying to push him into the tracks, but he failed. When my Dad looked back at him, the guy just started at him and ran away. So yes, platform screen doors should be a default feature of every every rail stop. They'll prevent a lot of murders and suicides.
Fortunately, NYC is going to be testing them on 3 of its stations in 2024. The project is unsurprisingly coming in response to a woman named Michelle Go getting shoved onto the tracks and killed. Yet, in typical NYC fashion, it's going to cost over $100M. Yes, I'm serious. Over $100M to install some doors. How? I don't understand what it is about NYC that makes every project over there cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
corruption mixed with burdensome regulation and economic protectionism
Us Chicagoans feel your pain
The Dems use these projects to launder money. Same thing with the HSR in California. Construction costs are vastly inflated on purpose.
I mean in their defense to build platform screen doors you have to be very precise about where you stop, meanwhile without them you can have multiple feet of slack about where to stop
@@general_wcj9438 if you automate the trains then humans aren’t stopping the trains anyway so thats not an excuse
Fun fact, Paris has also installed platform screen doors on lines 4 and 13, so it's totally possible to retrofit. Line 1 isn't just a one time effort
Retrofits have happened on tons of lines around the world
Everything is possible, it's just subject to money you are happy to spend on it.
@@ulicnik24 Every major project in Toronto starts with the words It will cost billions.....
I just can’t fathom why the Moscow Metro, Berlin U-Bahn, and Madrid Metro still refuse to retrofit their stations with those doors even when there were already serious accidents that they should’ve learned lessons from. Duh, even Madrid Metro used to have a line with temporary PSDs (that should’ve been permanent).
@@RMTransit can you make a video on the R151 released today, I commented because you wont find me in the other 467 comments this video has
Platform screen doors should be a norm in developed countries. After all, it can reduce a lot of unnecessary incidents and accidents (among other reasons). Glad to see such doors being installed in North America!!
It should be the norm in every metro system
@kartik_sinha true, but you gotta know that that is currently impossible to do, since many LDCs don't have the money nor the tech to do that. There's a lot of tech involved in synchronising the doors and making sure their working too.
Edit: I stand corrected since metro systems can be built relatively cheaply nowadays due to Chinese manufacturing and construction firms
@@captainbroady most of these countries don't have any metros currently and are building them right now. And again most of them have foreign technology partners.
Like Dhaka metro in Bangladesh uses cbtc and has doors.
When you are building the systems brand new it is very likely you will use cbtc and when you are already using cbtc adding psd is really not that expensive. The operational benefits will more than pay for the small increase in cost.
@@captainbroady ironically a lot of metro systems in developing countries have them including metro systems in countries like China, India, Thailand, Malaysia, Brazil, etc because their systems are newer, but rather its older systems in developed countries that tend to not have them
one downside of platform screen doors is what if for example your hair gets stuck in both doors, then your scalp would get ripped off for example
I was in New York years ago when a pusher for no reason threw someone into the line. I was at that station 30 mins before it happened & it always terrified me & annoyed me New York doesn’t make more of an effort to get them. But since following RM transit, I’ve a deeper understanding of them
Thanks for watching!
The MTA is a corrupt entity that has people running it who only care about money flowing into their personal pockets rather than rider safety or being a functional transport network that can sustain itself on the profits from ridership.
Three NYC stations are piloting them in the next year or so, but I think it'll take forever to roll them out to even the 128 stations which don't need major modifications to support them.
I'm opening Honolulu's fully-automated light metro June 30. Platform screen gates, no full-height doors, but get excited, Reece!
You know it's a celebratory day when Reece dances during the intro
You got it!
Never seen the dance before, got hyped!
@rahularora9868 Go search “RMtransit dancing intro” for an older example.
There was even a time back in 2022 when Korea received huge amounts of rain, the screen doors of the station kept water out of the tracks, allowing trains to pass through the station and continue service.
Platform doors are excellent for safety. Someone died at my local station about a decade ago because they slipped and feel between the train and the platform. You think it could never happen to you, but it could.
Don't forget how avoiding accidents increases reliability. Most systems will come to a complete stop while they scrape guts off the train.
The TTC has already had an incident of someone being PUSHED onto the tracks in 2018. So I'd assume this would be a big priority, and with the taller platform screen doors too. Especially since there's been a increase in violence on and very close to the TTC.
I was there and it happened with in feet of me. I'll never forget it. I have heard they slipped, and I have also heard that they were suicidal. I've never gotten a definitive answer on that. But it was horrific to see it and know there was no way to save the person. Interesting fact most suicides on the subway are not instantly fatal......
Speaking as a Singaporean here. The platform doors for the underground stations enable air-conditioning, which I will always be thankful for.
But when they started to roll out the platform doors for above-ground stations, the screens blocked the breeze from blowing onto the platform. They recognised this lack of cooling and installed huge, gigantic fans on the ceiling later, but those days before they were installed? Very stuffy in a hot and humid climate.
Just an anecdote from my own experience with platform doors. Hopefully NA's planners will learn from our experiences, no sense learning the same lesson again.
Don't worry, we will learn the lesson again 😢
That and also the kind of oxymoron barrier on the LRT* systems (it's almost HHPSD but without the additional protection of an actual full protection of the screen door)
* Read people mover
The above-ground stations were already hot before 1/2 height platform screen doors were added to them
In Singapore, there are actually markings on the floor in front of the doors showing you where to queue up and what areas to leave clear for disembarking passengers. As far as I can tell, people actually pay attention to them.
Line 1 has them too now, as they have been upgraded with ATC now.
Except people are kind of an idiot. The empty space in-between the doors are often unused, and the queue often just jams up the "route of passage / access" since everyone's queue right behind each other...
(Of course it's a bit faster to get on board but Jesus we could also allow people move further up the platform and not have the queue lead up to the other platform ... And "cross feed"
Singapore had platform screen doors for our MRT system at underground stations since the very beginning; initially they were used more for ventilation control (achieving atmospheric separation between the tunnels and passenger areas in stations, reducing air-conditioning costs in stations). However, after a spate of mostly suicides and some accidents and deliberate malicious incidents, the authorities decided to have half-height ones installed on above-ground stations as well for their safety aspects, and since then incidents of suicides or deliberate trespass have plummeted. With platform screen doors, even if someone were to try and climb over or crash through them, it would more likely than not slow down the person and give bystanders more time to raise the alarm, giving railway staff time to shut the railway down and stop incoming trains from entering.
This actually happened not too long at one of our stations here: a girl climbed over the half-height screen doors at one of the overground stations in an attempted suicide; commuters on the platform immediately raised the alarm and hit the emergency stop plunger (an emergency device that stops trains from entering station platforms when it's activated, or from departing if it's already berthed at one), giving time for railway staff and emergency services to respond and rescue the girl before the worst happened and getting her the help she needs. If there were no platform screen doors, it's more likely she would have just leapt off the platform in a spur of the moment and be instantly killed by an oncoming train.
Indeed, there's a Japanese horror movie - Suicide Club - that straight-up opens with a scene of 54 schoolgirls jumping off a train platform in an act of mass suicide. Every time I watch a clip of that scene, I muse to myself how something like that would be completely impossible if the station platform had platform screen doors. And no, please don't go watch that clip if you are faint-of-heart; that scene is totally not safe for life. 😱
Excellent! Another selling point for the case study!
In the same week this video came out, a man in Boston died in an MBTA station from an incident that could have easily been avoided with screen doors. The amount of people saying there was nothing that could be done to prevent such a thing from happening was frustrating.
Worth mentioning: The NYC subway is going to start a pilot program adding screen doors in 3 stations (Times Square on the 7, 3rd Ave on the L, and Sutphin/Archer on the E).
the queueing point is such an important thing to me. I lived in Tokyo before and now I live in Zurich. in Tokyo, people could queue up in an orderly manner because you know where the doors will be (even in stations without gates). in Zurich, you just kind of stand somewhere on the platform until the train arrives when everyone just kinda hurries to make it to a door first.
Therefore in Vienna they had a smart idea: they just painted signs on the floor, where the doors of the train will/should be. And well it actually helps that people bord faster....
Something every Metro could do, only a few € for paint is needed
@@BetaD_ yea that is how many stations in tokyo that dont use screen doors do it. problem in switzerland is the signaling. trains don't stop at the same place every time
I live in Berlin and I always wonder why there is no station with platform screen doors, not even on the latest additions to the network, while there are accidents quite regularly and platform screen doors would prevent them easily.
Use of mixed rolling stock makes PSDs unfeasible in Berlin at the moment. The large profile lines might get them once the IKs are gone from the U5 and the signalling allows it, but on U1-U4 you are looking at two or three (with the Jk) different door configurations/placements that are operating on one line. There are shifting PSDs to accommodate different door placements, but they are super complicated and I don’t think they’d work in Berlin’s small stations. For the time being, PSDs will be hard for Berlin to implement.
Hawaii's HART also has screen doors and its opening within a month.
Also just came back from Japan, platform screen doors are common but not everywhere. Just a small note.
I get the benefit of platform screen doors, but I can already see why they won't catch on soon in the US:
1. Cost to retrofit or include in original planning, and
2. Someone is going to find a way to get pinched or stuck between the doors and the train, and even with signs warning them, they will cry foul, that there was no warning, and how could they know they could get hurt if they put their limbs or bodies where they don't belong.
I remember after a bomb scare at Bloor people almost falling onto the tracks when they let too many people back into the station. Platform doors are such a no brainer to prevent incidents like that.
For my option in Berlin East:
we need first a bus all around 7min or less and not like now on the weekend only all 20min.
After this we can talk at PSDs to be retrofitting on 100+years old stations
Even with freak incidents where platform screen doors actually led to harm with someone, it's still a net benefit.
Having seen an incident where a suicidal person was pinned between the train and the platform (She didn't survive), I fully support the installation and stations that have a high probability of this type of incident.
@@PWingert1966 But it's easier for a suicidal person to jump at an approaching train where there are no barriers
Not just trains! Brisbane’s Queen Street Bus Station has platform screen doors!
Yeah, they exist in a number of places!
I always found it interesting that if you go to almost any theme park they have some sort of gate weather it be air powered or magneticly locked they will immediately stop motion in the station or the entire ride if they open when they shouldn’t but most metros didn’t considering at least in dc those trains are heavy and blast into the station whereas on a roller coaster the trains generally slowly roll in and out of the station
Edit: I just wanted to say I would love to see platform screen doors in dc but they would interfere with the esthetic so it would be so cool if someone could make an esthetic design for them
I agree that an aesthetic option would be best, but I think we can all agree with the priorities being safety > aesthetic. Any updates would be better than what is there now
@@cmmartti agreed they also usually have an emergency stop button for if an incident does occur but I could see that not going well here and maybe make the barrier with a design inspired by the brutalist architecture and including the flashing lights at an angle shining on the barrier
Meanwhile, JR East made a stupid cost-cutting design for new platform gates they call “smart platform gates” that are actually super easy to climb over before jumping in front of the train (it has hollow frames instead of glass, so it’s ends up being more like a ladder instead of a fence) and solid pipes instead of the loose rope system used at Narita airport and by JR West.
Do you even call those doors “smart”, JR East? A glass or opaque variant of the same design would have been so much better.
The Tokyu lines, which runs Tokyo and Kanagawa prefectures in Japan, constructed every station of Home Screen door. Many station were old and the the platform was weak, so they investigated huge amount of money to rebuild the platform and home door, but after that there is no case of jumping or falling accident in these days.
JR Yamanote line almost have home door, but the busiest station, Shinjuku and Shibuya,
doesn’t have a home door, because of the renewer the city and the station, so most of the case of jumping happens in those station.😢
It’s possible to retrofit “home doors” on those stations because their platforms are already wide enough. But I just don’t understand why it’s taking too long.
There's a small (but meaningful) distinction between platform screen doors and platform edge doors. Screen doors are the ones that go up to the ceiling, and completely separate the people on the platform from the trains (forming a full-cover 'screen'). Platform edge doors are all the other ones, and depending who you ask, may include platform screen doors as well, as an umbrella term.
I think LA light rail stations in the median of freeways could benefit from having a roof and platform screen doors to shield from all that insane noise
Just the other day, I saw someone accidentally fall onto the tracks at Surrey Central SkyTrain. They were luckily unhurt, but it was another reminder that platform screen doors would have helped! SkyTrain will soon be retiring the older Mk I trains with different door layouts, so it would be cool if future extensions (I'm looking at you Surrey-Langley SkyTrain) could have screen doors!
how scary!! i agree, it would be amazing to have platform screen doors on the skytrain extensions
I know I'm late, but with the Mark Is getting retired we could definitely see them coming. Besides, they should be on the Canada line already.
Good news RMT, the MTA just announced today that the NYC Subway will begin to recieve platform screen doors, beginning with their busiest stations like Times Square and Sutphin Blvd. This video came out right on time.
About time too!!!
Not just fully winterized stations
AKA sealed-platform screen doors
but also Reese dancing!!!!
I was cackling at that intro
I am excited!
The BRTS system in my city indore, india has full height platform screen doors since 2012.
Even delhi metro has added them to busy stations in phase 1 and 2 which is really appriciated.
So happy to see the fruit of your hard advocacy.
Phase 3 & upcoming phase 4 stations have partial screen doors in all stations.
@@rishav2205 yes I know that. I said they have retrofitted them in old busy stations.
Thanks, and yes - this is a place where Delhi is ahead of many legacy systems like New York, London and Toronto!
The Helsinki metro in Finland experimented with platform doors a couple years ago but gave up when they thought the drivers could not position the trains correctly at the doors.
The PATH system in NYC has been absolutely falling apart with delays and cancellations and suspensions lately and a gigantic number of those incidents are from trespassers on the tracks.
Thanjs for the explainer - I had only considered the personal safety aspect if having screen doors, but I hadn't realized the other benefits! I purposely avoid bloor-yonge station in the morning wherever possible because of the loads of people all trying to use the same single staircase. It's madness!
Dutchman here. Whenever I ride a train, I'm mindful that I don't stand too close to the tracks and don't have my feet perpendicular to the tracks. Just a few too many crazies. Platform screen doors would be really nice. Probably not gonna happen for a long while, but would be nice.
5:47 Unfortunately, here in Santiago one person does that every few days-1 month, so you may deduce that I'm really tired of seeing service being stopped due to "a person being on the tracks"… and not much else. The Metro is considering to add platform screen doors to every other line. They are currently only on L3 and L6; they will now be added to L1, and eventually to L2, L4 and L5.
In Toronto, people regularly shove other people onto the tracks. Many of those incidents are fatal. It's almost never an accident in Toronto, it's almost always a suicide attempt or attempted murder.
I've heard, thats a good idea
The problem New York has is that our trains are all by different manufacturers and there's no standard distance, placement, and width, of the doors on the trains.
So any PSD system would have to basically have adjacent "screen doors" along the entire length of the platform, and only open the appropriate ones where there's a door on each train when it stops.
I'm sure that can be done, especially if the doors rise up into the ceiling or down into the floor, instead of sideways like an elevator. But that's not a standard design yet.
Just wait for them to get rid of the old rolling stock.
@@trainsandmore2319And it'd STILL make not one bit of difference....
That kind of adjacent “screen doors” you were talking about now exists in Osaka.
@@trainsandmore2319 Great news!
I hate to be that guy, but installing platform screen doors on all 400+ NYC subway stations would probably take 100 billion dollars and 100 years to complete. I'm not sure if it’d even be structurally possible in many stations. Washington DC, Atlanta, Los Angeles, and Chicago would be much more likely short-term candidates for adding doors. Given how scarce transit funding often is in the US though, I wonder if the funds for PSDs might be better spent on system expansion.
And that's the problem with U.S. rail transit projects. They're already overpriced as it is and when planners try to lower project costs just to get it built, the first feature to be eliminated would be platform screen doors. That's exactly what happened to New York City's Second Avenue Subway, the original renderings showed platform screen doors, but the project has since opened without them. The only U.S. rail transit project to have platform screen doors (actually gates) in addition to open gangway rail cars will be the Honolulu, Hawaii rail line that will open up later this month from East Kapolei to Aloha Stadium.
Don't need to install at all stations, just the most crowded ones will help a lot
That price isn't a given though, it could be done more cost effectively
Structurally probably possible if paris can do it, but i agree nyc construction costs make it not worth it unless all trains can be automated
in Barcelona we only have platform doors at automated lines L9, L10 and the short L11
I absolutely love that more metro systems are getting upgrades. Not only Toronto, but also down here in Washington DC. And as a transit enthusiast, I’m just as hype as you seeing the Toronto Metro getting these upgrades.
DC's gotta get going with screen doors!
house of cards would have turned out very differently if the DC metro had screen doors!
Because of North America's use limited to airports, and I don't really travel elsewhere, I used to think platform screen doors were a people mover/gadgetbahn thing
North America isn't limited to air travel; the nation started its initial stupidity with the autobahn that Eisenhower imported from Nazi Germany, and progressed from there....
Santiago Metro just announced a modernization plan that includes platform screen doors for the older non-automated lines, starting with Line 1 that already has CBTC.
If you're building a new line or making major renovations to a station and your construction costs are cheap I can understand PSDs. But there's absolutely a point where you have to question whether you should spend that money to actually help people struggling with mental health issues, especially in countries where mental healthcare isn't universal or easily accessible like Canada. PSDs are basically saying "go kill yourself somewhere else."
I thought the PSD’s were super fancy when I saw them on the Elizabeth line last summer and would love to see any and all metros implement them from now on. They should be as common as elevator doors, like Reece said!
The issue with platform screen doors everywhere is the different platform heights.
It's not that fancy at all. Most metros in Asia have them.
@@joshuaritchie3836 well... That's what the retrofit works are supposed to rectify...
There's always a way... Unless ya platform is ye low like in USA Amtrak rural.
@@PrograError Well are platforms vary be quite a few mm and also some of are platforms are built on sharp bends and some platforms have freight traffic running over the edge of the platform. Also we have very different door positions on trains. We also have got very little in-cab signalling because we use mainly AWS and TPWS for are signalling with the odd bit of ATP, ETCS, TVM and CBTC which has been causing issues on the Elizabeth line core for years. In the UK the national standard is ETCS for signalling.
So, in fact, your comparison between platform doors and elevator/lift doors is on point. The St Petersburg Metro, inventor of platform edge doors (but not screen haha), integrated them in a platform design called "Horizontal Elevator". And the fun fact is that this is gonna be a thing at one platform at one station which is to be opened soon on the Novosibirsk Metro (Sportivnaya), not glass doors.
By the way, there are many systems in Asia which do not have automated driving but still have platform screen doors, it simply takes some training to be able to stop correctly at them, and in theory, every single driver is perfectly trained to stop at the right place.
There is another style as well: at underground HSR stations in China there is a gap between the door and the edge of the platform so that perfect alignment isn't necessary. This might not be safe enough without conductors though.
@@maxxiong In those situations I believe the platforms are well surveyed to avoid those situations. Ideally they should align with any train doors but I get that it's not always possible
I actually visited Moscow and Leningrad (as it was still called in those days) way back in 1986. I witnessed those original platform edge doors because the Metro station near to my hotel had them. Of course this was many years before they became commonplace as more cities worldwide built Metro systems. One got the impression of a long line of elevator doors... the walls between them were solid too. The system worked well.
@@marcelwiszowaty1751 My grandfather should've seen them too back in the day as he did go on a tourist visit there. The system just hasn't changed even on modern days, and the doors of the two new stations on line 3 also have them (with glass this time) but with exactly the same very mechanical system, it's genius!
Yep! There are other potential solutions for alignment too
If platform screen doors get Reese dancing, then I'm all for them!
This is so good to hear !!, at this point I rely on your videos for updates I really appreciate your work
Honolulu's long-awaited first Rail system that will finally open the first 10 miles and nine stations on Friday June 30th, will have platform screen doors.
On one hand, I can't wait!
On the other hand, I'll miss looking at the cute subway mice running around the tracks early in the morning.
You've got every other station!
I imagine the screens will be glass so you should still be able to see them!
Like with anything “other places” do… I have to sit here and imagine all the ways it can go wrong at my job because the NYCTA is the Murphy’s Law Railroad…
People shove themselves into closing doors already. Doors are just about closed. Someone races down the stairs and throws their hand in.
I have to reopen the doors.
Then twenty more people race through the open doors… I close the doors again, and someone else comes racing down the stairs, throwing their body into the doors… lather rinse repeat…
I can’t win with these people and now we’re supposed to welcome adding another lawyer complexity to the mix?
Nevermind what this might mean for my job as a conductor.
People also love to tamper with the platform mounted CCTV systems that allow me to see around curves and obstacles. I can only imagine what they would do here…
North America has been with the times when it comes to platform screen doors for a very long time. It's just that we decided that these should only exist in airport transit and nowhere else.
But thats not with the times!
A few months ago I was on the el in Philly when there was a delay because of someone in the track area. I'd love to see platform screen doors come to Philly. It seems that someone is in the track area every couple of weeks and it's not always accidental.
This will do wonders for the stress levels of train operators.
Operators should learn to brake 1 train length earlier.
Also allow more space because people nowadays are too afraid to stand anywhere close to the train
@@jerryg3652 On a crowded platform it can feel super sketchy if you're standing close to the edge for sure.
NYC would be so much cooler if they had platform screen doors
Here in São Paulo, they are also adding platform screen doors in all subway stations. Hopefully, they will also add them to trains since they are as busy as the subway.
I think he doesn't know São Paulo, he never talks about our megalopolis
Time to push the STM into doing this on the Blue Line in particular, with the extension coming and since they are already upgrading the signalling system... Would be a valid starting point.
I’ve been staying in Montreal for the past few weeks and decided to take a day trip to quebec city. For my train back to montreal, i got to ride on one of the venture train sets, and when I tell you i was excited it is quite an understatement.
I first noticed what a difference it makes sealing in the train when visiting London. Some of the older stations that lacked screen doors at the time were acrid, truly horrendous to breathe when the trains arrived and departed. You could see decades of soot and dust accumulated on everything in the station. Other stations that had the train fully enclosed were clean and the air was breathable. I’m a huge fan now. It just makes sense.
thats because in London the doors are only on new lines, bad example to pick
Yep, the air quality benefits are also significant!
@@betaichParts of the Elizabeth Line opened in the 1830s.
santiago's metro is also getting them doors in all lines now not just the latest lines, a massive retrofitting is being done soon
Platform screen doors is now no longer a word. I’ve got to say, there are lines where a psd won’t work, like Boston’s green line.
Boston's MBTA needs to use their limited funds to maintain/repair the existing system. Until that gets functioning properly spending money on PSDs is just a dream.
Always a good video when RM gets to nerd out about doors
Something that frustrates me a lot when I came to live to Madrid is that they did do a trial run for platform screen doors in one station (I don't remember the name now), but at the end of the trial they removed them from the station and went radio silent. There are only a few news pages dedicated to the installation of such doors but then, I can't find if they gave any reason not to keep them or add them to other stations. I can only speculate this is because of the very narrow platforms we have, it would be a nightmare for them to put them on Argüelles for example, or as you said that the platforms can't support the weight of the doors.
I thought such a decision was stupid. Madrid has actually had people fall on the tracks so those doors could’ve prevented those incident from happening.
The excuse of “platforms failing to support the weight of the doors” could be overcome with smaller and more lightweight variants like half-heights.
Love the hop! It's so important for us to give positive feedback when politicians and decision makers do the right things!
Absolutely, and gotta enjoy a win when one comes along
Shanghai Lines 1,2 ,3, and 5 were originally built without PSDs, but they were all upgraded to add them many years ago now and of course all new stations have them from the beginning here.
Are you based in Shanghai?
@@RMTransit I am, can confirm that 1,2,3 and 5 were not fitted at first, that's the reason why they have half-height (line 1&2, underground sections) PSDs while other lines have fully enclosed ones. Also most of the above-ground sections (line 3, sections of line 11, etc.) have half-height PSDs but iirc some above-ground stations also have full-height ones.
Hello from Dhaka.
I have been following your channel for some time now.
I was amazed to hear that you will make a video on the Dhaka MRT. Looking forward to it.
London hasn't retrofitted on any old stations yet.
The Jubilee line signalling is clearly capable of doing it, because the new extension has them.
The Victoria line has a very modern signalling system, and I'm sure it would be capable. It is also completely underground and separate to all other lines.
Obviously in places like the northern half of the circle line where you have S7 and S8 stock calling at the same platforms, or the Richmond branch where you have S7 and Class 378 trains calling at the same platform, it is going to be more difficult.
In the deep tubes, the trains running in the tunnels are part of the ventilation system. So they can't fully block platforms from the tunnels.
Also, Crossrail didn't bother with platform edge doors at Abbey Wood or Custom House. Bonkers.
They already are used all around the world!
The big issue is that the JL signalling system actually isn't that precise
@@RMTransitHow does it work for where you have very different floor heights compared to the platform height for example the Watford DC line section of the Bakerloo line.
Actually we’re getting an above ground train in Hawaii (HART) and they will also have platform doors starting on June 30th!
The more I think about it, the stranger it is that they’re good enough for a LOT of airports in addition to Phoenix (ATL, SFO, DEN, DTW, MSP, SEA, MCO, and several more) but not for any metro systems. I’d love to see them on BART - there are markings on the platform that line up with the doors, so I know the ATCS should be capable of it. But my lovely local transit system (I do love BART) has other things to work on too.
Yay, Reece dancing! ❤ Oh yeah, platform screen doors nice too. 😉 Signal upgrades on Line 2 are starting today, btw. 😊
Probably worth flagging some of the issues with PSDs.
As an Elizabeth Line commuter I have been delayed on a number of occasions (sometimes minor delays, sometimes major delays) because the PSDs won't close so the train can't depart. (I question why it's considered safe enough for the train to pull out of Custom House or Abbey Wood - stations without PSDs - yet unspeakably dangerous to pull out of Canary Wharf or Whitechapel while the PSDs were open, but I digress). So I'd want to see data to demonstrate that the overall effect on reliability is positive because all I see is disruption and delay caused by PSDs.
Also, Elizabeth Line commuters will be familiar with the constant announcements not to lean on either the PSDs or the glass panels between the PSDs. Often the member of staff making the announcement will explain that this is because leaning on the PSDs can cause them to fail, which will cause disruption and delay. And sure enough, it's quite common to see individual PSDs that have been taken out of service (presumably because they would no longer close). Presumably when they first stopped working, the train couldn't leave until they'd worked out which door was causing the issue, closed it manually and taken it out of service. There's a quite well developed system of warning signs both on the platform and on board trains to advise passengers when a door is out of service, but it is disruptive. It can be very inconvenient in rush hour, when the train is full, to reach a working door through the packed carriage.
So my question is this: why would a feature which is designed to prevent people falling on the track not be capable of withstanding even the lightest physical contact with people?
Maybe my beef isn't with PSDs generally, but with PSDs on the Elizabeth Line that have been installed and/or are operated in a typically incompetent, British way. (They were certainly installed in an incompetent way - the BBC made a documentary showing how contractors were paid to stand around on the platform at Tottenham Court Road for days if not weeks on end waiting for the glass panels to be delivered to the station by train, but whoever drew up the plans for that forgot that trains cannot pass through each other.)
The PSDs on the Jubilee Line extension don't have these problems as far as I know (although I use that line less).
While not a rail system but still mass transit. SeaBus in Vancouver effectively has platform screen doors since 1977. They're operated by the SeaBus operator who opens at same time as the doors on the SeaBus.
I'm hoping that when Vancouver retires the mark 1 trains they can look at platform screen doors or gates. Because I like to see trains I prefer the gates.
Gotta love the sea bus!
I'm so happy about this!!! Also always get excited when I see Lawrence Station in your videos lol cause that's my stop :)
The train at the Atlanta airport has had platform doors since day one in 1980
MARTA, built at the same time, has never had them.
I’ve never thought about platform screen doors as being an upgrade but when I think about my personal experience with using subway platforms that had them, I felt safer and the metro felt elevated. I agree
I'd like to hear more about how Japan has platform screen doors set up to deal with trains that have different spacing of their doors. That sounds like it would be good for New York, which has subway cars of different length (75 foot and 60 foot) on their B division.
London never really expanded its use of PSDs outside of brand new developments like the Jubilee line extension and the Elizabeth line. I don't really understand why they haven't tried retrofitting some since most Tube lines already have full ATO necessary for stopping the train perfectly aligned with the doors. The Victoria line with its very high frequency would benefit in particular. Thameslink core could also use them since it also has ATO.
Yeah, I agree. But one thing that's holding them back considering to add PSD/PEDs are the lack of funding after spending billions on the Crossrail project with that being the Elizabeth line of course. And I don't expect TFL to add them on any parts on the network (except for the new Piccadilly line trains that will publicly run in the next coming years, about 2025/2026 as part of the NTFL project)
And whilst I'm a fan of PEDs, they can ruin the design and the aesthetic of the stations. It would feel that the station(s) would look small and look bland, if that makes sense
I was surprised they weren't added to the Northern line extension. Is it to do with the rolling stock being incompatible with the technology?
@@ballyhigh11 Not sure, the trains definitely have ATO as they're very similar to the Jubilee line trains (in fact they're slightly more advanced). Apparently they've left in the space and fittings for PSDs on the extension stations, but why they chose not to just add them in from the outset I don't know.
Santiago de Chile currently has 2 lines with platform doors, they are currently planning to implement them on line 1 and in addition to the fact that there is a line under construction with platform doors (line 7) and lines 8 and 9 will have platform doors. the plan of the Santiago metro is to be able to have platform doors on all lines in the not so distant future
The Helsinki Metro tried to add platform screen doors in the 2010's when they were planning to automate the metro system. But the platform screen doors idea was heavily criticized, many calling them useless. They even added platform screen doors to one of the stations for testing in 2010 (Vuosaari), but were torn down in 2015 after the automation plan was shelved.
Thats really too bad!
@@RMTransit I remember living in Vuosaari in the early 2010's, and the platform screen doors that were used in that station were very unreliable. And according to Wikipedia, that's another reason why the platform screen doors for the Helsinki Metro were scrapped. Most of the time, they didn't even work. So they would resort to only have the other platform operational (which was free of PSD's). And when they did work, they were very slow.
Should just go get better ones instead.
Installing platform screen doors throughout the metro system may also facilitate standardisation of the technology behind it (e.g. rolling stock, and even electrification, signalling, etc.), as any later trains procured would have to meet the system's specifications to fit the doors.
I don't know if I'm right, but I once told my friends I could see the potential for the Canada Line in Vancouver to install the platform doors now. For the Expo and Millennium lines, the different door positions of the Mark I are a problem. But it could happen if they introduce adjustable platform doors or retire the Mark I. (BTW, Kuala Lumpur's Kelana Jaya line also uses Innovia metro rolling stocks but has installed PSDs, at least in their underground stations.)
Canada Line could do it but it's probably not worth doing until the 3 car upgrade and station extensions happen which are going to have to happen sooner rather then later. You're correct about the Expo/Millenium but the Mark 1s aren't going to be sticking around for too much longer with notionally the Mark Vs having pushed them out by 2027 though manufacturing schedules and the need for more cars with the Broadway and Langley extensions opening may shift that around some.
Yep, the Canada Line could have them!
Cool, now you're locked into a single design; or any innovation would require massive infrastructure changes and overnight obsolete your entire system. Flexibility is instrumental in infrastructure that should last 100s of years with rolling improvements.
While the doors on metro rolling stocks have to be in the same positions and the signalling system must be able to cope with the platform doors, it's not the case that any improvements in rail technology would make a complete overhaul of such metro systems inevitable. Singapore's East-West Line and Taipei's Wenhu Line have had platform doors since their inception, and both have managed signalling upgrades and the introduction of a new generation of rolling stock from a different family with temporary or no disruption to services, and it doesn't require changes to the physical infrastructure. Most metro platform doors are fixed, and who says they can't work well after 100+ years?
People getting hit by trains is a routine cause of delays in the NYC subway. The MTA made it clear with their inaction they value saving money over peoples' lives.
Thank you!
Platform screen doors are more important than automation but I doubt you will ever see them in many NA subways considering the cost and organization it takes to retrofit stations with them.
Screen doors are good but they also can come at a high price for a low traffic system. Lyon metro has two of its lines automatic (D) and automated (B) that don't feature screen doors and they still work well. It was deemed useless to add screen doors where a simple laser detection system to shut down train power feeding if someone crosses it would be enough. There is just a small bit of metal preventing people to jump between carriages, although newer trains featuring a gangway between those means the bit bit of metal is now useless..
Plus; stations in Lyon are still longer than the trains (built to accomodate longer trains in the future) so it has some reserve capacity. Installing screen doors is not always the cheapest solution.
I know that the standard is now to install those but I guess that the Line 18 of the Grand Paris Express wouldn't actually need those if it weren't for a question of standards.
That being said, it's always a good safety asset to have.
00:36 I really miss the old intro. Glad it’s back and also includes you dancing in the background once again!
My late grandfather fell onto the train tracks at the Oslo central station and injured his upper spine pretty badly (he was over 80 at the time). He survived the accident and lived for many more years to the ripe old age of 98, but I think the accident accelerated his physical and cognitive decline quite a bit. He ended up in a nursing home and lost so much muscle mass that he had to use a wheelchair for the rest of his life. I wonder what things would have been like for him if that hadn't happened.
0:39 Reese you have to do this every intro now 😂
Only when I come bearing very good news
You've mentioned reasons why platform screen doors are difficult to retrofit, and they are hard to overcome. Older subway systems often use more than one style of train on a given line, do not have the sophisticated electronics required, and would need to have platforms completely rebuilt to accommodate the doors. It would take many millions of dollars to implement a retrofit plan, and some systems have trouble scraping up enough money to operate what they already have. Boston's MBTA is an example of that.
The best older subways tend to have modernized their infrastructure and fleet
As a Londoner and one that uses the Jubilee then I've never thought about the pros and cons of PSDoors and didn't know till this video the name for them. The pros of safety and the idea that trains can move at full speed more often is interesting. On a malicious safety aspect though, the waist height PSD frighten me as IF someone were to fall over the side onto the tracks it would be even more impossible to escape death as you couldn't climb or be pulled up to the platform so in my opinion PSD should only be full height or nothing
PSDs have been the new 'star of the show' for the São Paulo Metro in the last few years, with the first implementation of them in the (at the time) newly built line 4. Since then, Line 5 was the next blessed with them, even though some stations had been built in the early 2000's and their platforms had to be retrofitted. Thankfully, the metro has been working on the older lines (1, 2 and 3) to install them at all stations, but hasn't been concluded. Line 3 might be the first of the older lines to recieve all of them even just having ATC online. Weirdly enough, Line 3 is the last line to recieve CBTC, all others already have it, and the PSDs that are already working fucntion with their backup operation plan, relying on sensors at each end of the platform to notice when a train arrives and when it's doors are opened/closed.
I think he doesn't know São Paulo, he never talks about our megalopolis
Love your celebratory dance, Reece.
I remember your old video about platform screen doors. It was really long time ago. It was the first video made by you that I have seen and I'm glad I subscribed
Love you dancing a jig, and thanks for the pirouette :)
I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard that announcement last week. Wonder when Line 2 will get ATC installed so it can benefit from Platform Screen doors at the B and Y Station.
Sounds like the project is continuing to move along
In New York City, this would reduce stress for the train operators, the amount of heat and rail dust passengers experience or inhale, the number of suicides, the number of people being shoved into the tracks, the amount of trash and objects being thrown into the trash, etc. These have been problems for decades, and clearly the culture or policies to reduce this haven't been implemented or haven't done anything. So why pray and wait for some miracle shift in culture when platform screen doors can be tried out?
North America might have futuristic screen doors in the future they're so unique & essential.
North American are still too late adding platform screen doors to their stations, they should've done this during the 1990's and 2000's.
On the Sofia metro they have roll up platform screen "doors" which look a bit like venetian blinds which retract upwards when the train is at the platform. They seem unique to Sofia but are a Korean invention. When I first walked onto the platform and saw these I thought they had closed off part of the platform for construction work and I should walk further along because I had never seen anything like this before.
I've just TH-camd that. What a brilliant solution that looks pretty simple to install and cost effective! I'm guessing there's a reason why this isn't more widely used?
So much for the argument against PSDs regarding different train door alignments!.
Japan uses them too!
Make platform screen doors that go up. A few columns that hold it, but the rest is just like a garage door or those security doors in shops. Might be integrated into a station roof, to cover outdoor stations. Waiting is a lot better if there isn't a constant rain landing on you.
I don't think this design is good
@@RMTransit What is the main issue?
@@placeholdername0000 They will take too long to close and open.
@@AlCatSplat Depends on the design?
BRING BACK THE DANCING AT THE INTRO!
I'm just sad that in the US despite the whole big announcement about the 'infrastructure bill' barely anything notable has happened or changed. At least nothing that they haven't already was working on. The crazy thing is that once the pandemic funding passes, a lot of systems that is being kept afloat is going to struggle. So much for "number 1" country in the world
Love that intro!
For Taipei MRT, there's platform screen door and gate for every stations, and I think besides preventing accidents, the screen door especially the kind that goes up to the ceiling makes the room temperature on the station much better since AC won't run away into the tunnel, and the platform much much quieter since the train's noise will be block by the door, unlike everytime when I take the NYC subway, the stations is sooo humid and hot during the summer and when it's crowded, and you need to bear with the loud clanging sound everytime a train pull and pull out~
Great dance in the intro😂