Hydraulic or PTO Auger, Which is Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- 🚜 We had a viewer question about digging post holes in rocky conditions. In today's video, we dive deep into the debate of using a hydraulic front-mounted post hole digger versus a three-point PTO-driven auger on a small tractor.
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🔍 Pros and cons: Learn the advantages of a front-mounted post hole digger, including the added down pressure for tackling challenging terrains. But, is the risk of potential damage to your small tractor's hydraulic pump worth it? We break down the considerations.
💪 Strength vs. Precision: Discover why a three-point PTO-driven auger might be the safer choice for rocky soil. Uncover how the precision and durability of this setup can save you from unexpected repairs down the line. Also, will the added down pressure of a front-mounted auger go through solid rock any better than a rear-mounted PTO driven post hole digger? My guess is there will be minimal difference.
🔧 Maintenance Matters: skid loaders and larger ag tractors are designed for the rigors of hydraulically-powered attachments. Most compact tractors are not. Consider the danger of overheating your hydraulic system with a front-mounted post hole digger and the chance of premature failures.
🌐 Expert Insights: Check out the comments from experienced users who have faced rocky conditions and share their insights on which post hole digging solution worked best for them.
🤔 Still undecided? It might be a good time to visit your local rental yard to see if you can find a model that you can try out before investing in an all-new machine. Make sure it is designed to work with the hydraulic capabilities of your tractor!
🛠️ Whether you're a seasoned farmer or a weekend warrior, choosing the right post hole digger is crucial. Watch our video now and make an informed decision for efficient and damage-free digging in rocky terrains!
👍 Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on all things tractor and farm equipment-related! Let us know in the comments which post hole digging method you prefer and share your experiences. Happy digging! 🌱 #TractorLife #PostHoleDigger #RockySoil #FarmEquipmentTips
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I have used a hydraulic auger on a larger tractor. You have much more control over how fast the auger goes down than with a 3 point. In addition to the down pressure, you can slowly lower the loader which can help you not get the auger stuck. (With a PTO auger sometimes it will dig deep before you can react). You can also run the hydraulic motor in reverse if you get more dirt than you can lift or if you get the auger stuck in roots. A small hydraulic pump will run the auger slowly, not a big problem if you are only drilling a small number of holes for a pole barn. You aren't drilling post holes to put in a mile of fence. You still have a hydraulic pressure relief valve that will protect the system from overload. You will be sitting on the seat and will feel the transmission housing heating up if the hydraulic system is getting hot. If it does, take a break to let it cool down. If the auger gets caught on the edge of a large rock, you can run it in reverse to free the auger.
Excellent advice, Mike.
I asked a local industrial equipment company to quote a 6-12gpm hydraulic auger drive and 12x48 bit for clay. The price for a brand name setup was jaw dropping. Buying a rock bit for 6x6 posts, an 18” bit, (which will chew through limestone) would add hundreds more.
He asked what the project was; drilling holes for a post and board fence with three gates. He talked me out of the huge purchase and into renting for 1 day a track skid loader, drive, and bit, delivered and picked up for about 1/6 the purchase cost. If this is a one-time project… RENT!!! Save the hurting on your tractor.
I live in Southeast Tennessee, and we have our fair share of rocks. Most of the ones that I have encountered are basketball size and smaller. Often times you will get into layers where there are softball size sandstone and chert that are locked together. When this is encountered you will often break a shear pin. The other problem is that the whole post hole assemble wants to jerk around (even with the three point hitch adjusted to take out most of the slack) when rocks or roots are encountered. The augers for post hole digger that I used until recently were not very heavy duty. I used this post hole digger with a JD 5065M.
I recently purchased a new hydraulic post hole digger at an auction. It has the Bobcat type quick attach and came with a 15” and 12” auger. I had already purchased an adapter to go from the JD Euro quick attach to Bobcat for my 5075M. The tractor also has remote hydraulics on the loader that will flow the capacity of the pump. The hydraulic motor on the auger has a hex shaped output shaft that is 2.5” or larger across. As a result, there is no shear bolt. This auger is a beast. I was concerned that it might put some large side forces on the loader arms. This has not been the case. It also had a hardened steel drill looking tip as well as very hard teeth on the leading edges of the two auger flutes. I have stalled the 15” auger a few times in heavy rocks, but except for one case I was able to work my way through the obstruction. Down force and being able to reverse the direction are wonderful things.
Both tractors have 14 GPM 3,000 PSI hydraulic pumps not including the power steering. The duty cycle when digging holes is so small that I have not noticed any undue heat of the hydraulic fluid. A few days ago, we mixed concrete almost continuously for 3 hours with the 5075 (with a Bobcat style mixer) and the oil was starting to get hot even with the oil cooler. The new mixer has resulted in the retirement of our old PTO driven drum type mixer.
I doubt if I ever use the PTO driven auger again. Use an auger with extreme caution. As a firefighter for 40 years, I saw a lot of tragic tractor accidents. Auger accidents were only second to roll overs.
They make some hydraulic augers with smaller pumps that will work on a small tractor, but your auger bit speed will be incredibly slow, so you will most likely run into issues where the auger just won't turn anymore due to getting hung up on rocks, roots, or whatever else you run into in the ground with the bit....the nice thing with a hydraulic auger is you can reverse the rotation of the bit to untangle it from whatever you get hung up on unlike the PTO augers, once they get stuck you are in for a chore getting it back out, or it becomes a permanent fixture in wherever you got it stuck at...the other thing with the hydraulic auger is you get some down pressure by being able to apply downward pressure with your loader...you also have much better control with a hydraulic auger as you can speed up or slow down the rotation usually, and stop much quicker, unlike the PTO augers which just have on and off, you can vary the hydraulic flow with the hydraulic controls...typically you would be using the 3rd function on your loader for auger operation, so you get somewhat infinite control that way.
A small tractor however, has very limited hydraulic output so running a skid steer auger for example won't work, you need to find a low flow hydraulic auger...
Another option would be to just rent an auger and mini-skidsteer for the day, mark your holes in advance, then go rent the equipment for a few hours or for a day and do it all at once with the right piece of equipment and be done with it.
Even with a 75 HP Bobcat, the 18 inch auger had problems. The clay layer would gum up a bit and I would have to pull it out and clean it either by reversing it or using a shovel. When I would hit a basalt rock (6-10 inches) that was in the clay, that became a whole additional problem. Here in Idaho, I rent the bobcats with augers for post holes larger than 5 inches. And I learned that if I need an 18 inch hole, use a 24 inch auger and use a tamper to backfill the hole
Have a landpride Fel mounted hyd auger on a kioti ck35 . Drills a little slow with a 18in bit. But have drilled thousands of holes with it. The key to it is using the right tip setup. I've made shims to change angles on mine. Also the pilot point is critical. Sometimes you have to just break out the rock bar and hand diggers. 39 years fencing
Using a front hydraulic auger is a game changer. To achieve good results with a smaller tractor you need a PTO hydraulic attachment. An Xtra couple of grand. Mine pumps 16 gpm and works well. 8 gpm is not enough for good results
One big advantage of the hydraulic auger is that when, not if, you get stuck you can just reverse it and auger your way out. I have been told by auger manufactures that a lower flow tractor can use an auger ok but it is just slower. non-commercial use this might be ok. Of course, they were sales people not the tractor manufacturing types. Like your idea of renting.
Mines a 3 point post hole digger. After getting the auger stuck on a root. We rented a portable post hole digger hydronic driven. With a Honda 6 hp . The we rented had forward and reverse.
I think camppatton said it below..this is not a 5" post hole for a pole barn. This is a large diameter hole several feet deep for stability. The small augers do not have the hyd power to effectively turn a large bit.
Tractor time with Tim used a hyd auger 3 months ago in a garden. 1 foot deep 12" hole in garden soil. It worked great. He also used a big one to do a job similar to yours. Sep 2020 and it had a bigger bit but no rocks.
I have a hydraulic power pack that is PTO driven to run a 44 inch hydraulic powered brush hog on my front end loader. It works well and i like that it doesn't heat the tractors inside hydraulic system. All that said, i think i would just rent a skid steer with an auger and go that route. It is like a backhoe on a small tractor, unless you use it a lot, it will take a LONG TIME to pay for it versus just getting a rental for occasional projects.
Having a 3 point PTO auger I sure wish I had better view of the work area and sure would love to have that reverse feature in a hydraulic auger that I don't have with a PTO auger, especially when digging in rocky soil.
I use the land Pride hd25 auger on my Kubota l3901 and love it. It is a little slow but still works .
Would probably be smart to get a small trackhoe with a small bucket on it to just dig out the holes. What I did digging the 32 holes for my barn/machine shed was use my heavy duty homemade bale spike on my front loader to poke down and pry loose as much rock/hardpan as possible then with a shovel and 5 foot prybar got the holes cleaned out. Couple days hard work got it done but that was back when I was 45 years young to.
You gave some great advice Mike. Many times when I consider buying a new car, or tractor implement or wood chipper, etc, I like to rent one first to see if my potential purchase a) fits me, b) does what I need it to do and c) operates like I think it should. I believe in rocky soil I'd want a hydraulic auger because it will be more tolerant of rocks and hidden objects. With my PTO auger it drills very well in soft to ground with small rocks. However, if I'm going to drill in ground with larger rocks I have to take along a good supply of shear pins. Your advice was spot on. Rent, or for just a few holes, pay someone with the right equipment to do it.
Tractor time with Tim has a couple of good videos on this subject.
I agree a heavy rental shop can give good advice and maybe have the experience and equipment for that kind of question!
Even with 9" & 12" bits specially designed for heavy clay & rock and an expensive hydraulic auger on my 9,000+lb Kubota 75-2 track loader, it is impossible to go through large rocks (a big problem in south-central Tennessee). The ability of the mounted hydraulic auger to apply force AND change the angle of the bit when hitting rock is vastly superior to the hanging "gravity powered" PTO alternative. Given that pole barn post holes must be precisely located, you'll either need lots of luck to miss rock in each and every hole, or a jack hammer if you do.
As with most things, an individuals partical situation drives the needs. I got a low flow front mount auger for my MX5800. With that and my backhoe, I can tackle most post setting issues. Time is not a factor as I'm retired, and I don't like to rent as I don't do all my fencing at once and I don't like being constrained by a schedule. The auger was about $3.5k to buy and I've already done 300 posts with it, so the cost per post is dropping. When done, I'll sell it off for about 1.5-2k.
What brand and model of auger do you have?
@@paulcanter1593 It's the Landpride SA20 with the low flow motor (8-15gpm if I remember correctly). My property is very varied from where it works well to where nothing, and I mean nothing, other than a rock drill will work.
He should lay out where he wants the the pole barn, where the support posts are going to be, then drive a piece of pipe or rebar down to find out what's down there. Haven't used an auger in rocky soil, but if the auger runs into large rocks somethings gotta give and it won't be the rock.
I found a 24 inch rock on our new farm. And that’s the biggest natural rock I’ve ever seen in this area. Mostly, there’s clay and gravel with only small rocks if any. I’d love a hydraulic front auger, but I feel like my compact tractor hydraulic pump wouldn’t handle. Hope all is well, Mike! -Ed
Very good advice.
Mike, hydraulic all the way! Two reasons: 1. Hydraulic pressure release. 2. Reverse. I’ve used them a lot, both on various skid steers as well as my 55 hp 4 series TYM HST CAB TRACTOR. Yes skid steer is best with variable speed hydraulics but you can get by with a tractor too. Way too easy to get bound up with a PTO driven auger and far less control.
Either option is no match for large rocks.
Excellent advice Mike. I think rental is the way to go. A skid steer with hydraulic auger and bucket could make quick work of the holes and other site work. One step down is a machine like a Toro Dingo with auger attachment. And to really think out of the box, check out deck foot anchors although that rocky soil may prevent use.
Great advice
GOES THE SAME WITH THE FRONT BUSHOG,NEED A LOT OF HYDRUALIC FLOW.
Good advice Mike
pc
On my land I had auger with 75 H/P tractor in clay dirt and boy did that auger get stuck. Could not get it out . Had to get my friend too dig it out. He had to use his backhoe get it out.
Big or small, pretty much all modern tractors run roughly the same hydraulic pressures. The bigger and industrial tractors usually have more hydraulic flow. Pressure is what gives power to hydraulic equipment, and flow will govern the speed that it works. That being said, a hydraulic post hole digger should have nearly the same power as a bigger tractor, but will likely just be slower turning. When shopping for post hole diggers, just make sure your particular tractor meets the minimum pressure requirements and you should be ok. I understand the concern of heat build up, as hydraulic motors ran for long periods do build a lot of heat that most compact tractors aren't equipped to handle, unless you are just drilling one hole after another as fast as you can move the tractor, a digger isn't going to run long enough to build up enough heat to cause problems.
I've got a front mounted hydraulic post hole digger, and it is night and day difference in it and a 3-point mounted one. You can see what you're doing better, easier to position, down pressure, and a big one is the easiness to take on and off (3-point diggers are a real pain to attach and take off). Other than cost, I can't think of any advantage a 3-point digger has over a hydraulic loader mounted digger. Admittedly hydraulic diggers cost quite a bit more.
Totally agree with you, Mike. Here in Middle Tennessee we have a lot of rock, as well. If he hits some of those big rocks, the hydraulic system simply won't handle that.
Probably neither will a 3-point auger, but at least with the hydraulic auger it will just stall instead of breaking a shear pin, and you do have reverse to back it out if needed. Until you get into the real industrial machines, won't anything dig though big rocks.
Some tractors may require a third function lever kit most small tractors flow about 8 gpm might be good to get slightly bigger auger drive pump motor but not excessively big slightly bigger pump motor will turn a little slower but it'll have a little more power but if you go too big It could spin some pretty slow RPMs and have you waiting for it course you're getting into solid rock that auger is gonna be pretty well useless PTO or hydraulic front loader mounted
Working for the power company we use hydraulic augers all the time to set power poles. We either use a skid steer or Derrick digger truck. We have two augers….one regular auger and one for rock. In solid rock you have to use a rock auger and or dynamite. But if it’s smaller rocks and loose the regular auger will work.
Not sure about a regular tractor. I would think using an auger in rocks on a tractor would be very hard on the tractor…I wouldn’t.
LinemanG
I paid a fella with a Bobcat equipped with auger as he does it for a living….i had everything marked for my fence post holes, H braces and corners as they needed to be deeper/bigger diameter and told him me and a friend would be there with shovels to clear the auger when needed.
Was the way to go for me….way cheaper than renting and no learning curve as he sailed through the job.
You gave really good advice. I agree with you 100%. We had a fence put in around our swimming pool and they used a compact tractor with an auger on it. It ran off of the hydraulics. It didn’t do very well. They started off using a skid steer, but the skid steer broke and they were using the tractor.
I have had the best results starting with a small auger diameter then switching to the size that fills the bill.
A FEL mounted auger is the way to go. 1) You can apply downward pressure beyond gravity. 2) You can see what you are doing without looking over your shoulder or relying on mirrors. 3) You can set it up with both male on one end and both females on the other instead of MF other both, so you can easily swap from clockwise to counterclockwise. It always surprises me how often people ignore the huge benefit of 3) if you get caught on roots, etc.
Go hydraulic and don't look back. I'm in Vermont, our soil grows rocks. A pto digger will corkscrew itself into the ground around rocks. You will have to DIG your post hole digger out. A hydraulic auger goes in two directions, therefore, you can reverse it to get it out. I would not look for a digger with down pressure, only hydraulic drive on the auger. Unless you live in Sand country, go hydraulic.
I see the big rocks around my property here in Missouri and so who ever dug for my house with the walk out basement probably had the same problem as you, Mike.
What about a pto driven pump
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Great advice, Mike! Sometimes being a “Weenie” means having wisdom. 😀
I’d recommend hiring someone with a 5 tonne excavator to dig the holes.
He should dig a little deeper and sell some oil so he can hire this project out
You shouldn't race a donkey in a horse race.