Jaguar S3 V12 Barn Find Rescue EP 12

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น •

  • @victordenola106
    @victordenola106 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Persistance beats resistance.... those old girls need so much love & attention, but worth it

  • @chasermalloy7406
    @chasermalloy7406 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'll try to post this one again. Firstly, you say you're not sure about the ignition timing. You need to make sure it's right before continuing with your diagnosis. If it's out to any real degree the engine will run and particularly idle rough. It can be done easily as long as the engine is running. ( regardless of how it's running )

    All you need to do is: Identify / clean / clarify the timing marks on the indicator. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the vacuum advance unit, Start the engine and set at the specified RPM.
    The get under it on the hoist or slide under and check. Once you have confirmed it's right or made it right you may as well check the vacuum advance while you're there. Reconnect the vacuum line to the vacuum advance and make sure it's actively altering timing with engine revs.
    The vacuum advance must be checked after the engine has been running for 30 seconds because there is a delay applied to it after startup. You'll be well past that 30 sec after you've checked / set the timing anyway.
    Inactive vacuum advance won't cause noticeably rough running but will affect acceleration and economy.
    You can also check the centrifugal advance while you're at it.
    As for the ignition components, If the ignition amplifier on top of the left inlet manifold or the pickup module in the distributor have failed the engine will not run at all.
    With the ignition on the coil has constant power. ( coils if the car still has its original twin coil system )
    The ignition module amplifies the tiny signal from the distributor pickup module and actually supplies earth to the coil ( s ) in order to supply spark.
    So , if you have spark those units are not the issue. I've had one exception many years ago when a mate was doing an XJS V12 engine a SWB S1 sedan. ( D jetronic engine ) He had cut and extended the wires from the Distributor pickup to the ignition amplifier.
    He soldered them but then didn't insulate them well enough when he taped the wiring up. The car ran rough from idle onward. Went on for days. I was sure that was the problem but he kept arguing and checking this and checking that. I finally got sick of it so went over while he was sitting in the barely running car. I untaped his insulation. pulled the wires away from each other and it instantly ran like a V12 Jag.
    So that is critical. The little magnetic signal was being interrupted and confused by resistance caused by the wires being only separated by a single layer of insulating tape. The flexible wires of the pickup inside the distributor need to be checked too but it doesn't sound like your problem. Bare spots on the wire can earth if they're not secured.
    As for the ignition leads and injectors I firstly use a neon timing light to check that each lead is firing. (You can also just remove the lead from either end and see if the engine idle changes) of course. A change that has the idling faltering usually confirms that injector and plug are ok. If not and the timing light flashes to show the lead is firing you can move on to the injector for that cylinder. ( because it's more likely the problem and easier to check first anyway )
    You can check the injector is being supplied with power using an led with legs bent to slip into the small terminals in the plug. Of course you'll have to establish the polarity by checking both ways in the plug. The led will only fire in one direction. Any 12v test lamp will work as long as you can attach prongs small enough to fit in the terminals. The terminals can actually pull out of the plug and fail to make contact. It often happens when someone has redone the harness using heavy wire. It's quite obvious though when you look into the plug if one of the terminals is not visible or further back than the other.
    If there's no such problem and the plug is not showing any sign of life you obviously have to check back for a break. Rather than prodding the wire all along just disconnect the engine injector harness plugs from the main ECU harness. ( white rubbery plugs in front of the engine ) This is just the simple connection from the engine injector harness to the ECU in the boot.
    Once disconnected just check from the plug on the injector harness to the injector plugs using a continuity tester., ( start with the seemingly dud ones of course and check them against the contacts on the plug ) It is rare for the problem to be in the main injector harness rather than in the engine harness, but if the engine injector harness shows ok you can check continuity right back to the ECU using the pin assignments. They are marked on the long plug that connects the harness to the ECU. Best to get a friend on the other end because you have to put a long wire on the continuity tester to go from the front to the boot.
    Finally , Your car seems to still have the twin coil system. The twin coil setup was only fitted due to the extremely high demand of the HE ignition. There wasn't a coil rated high enough back then but now there is so we have the single coil conversion. Only the low tension side of the coils are connected and the spark is discharged through the primary coil. The coils' low tension wires are mated by being joined on the primary coil terminals. The secondarly coil is at the front above the radiator and just has the two wires coming back to connect to the primary coil ( obviously to the relevant + and - terminals ) I do favor the single coil conversion. Last one I bought was only $95. That was probably 5 or 6 years ago.
    I see they can now be had on ebay for 25 - 40 bucks. Someone wants $97 for one on ebay but only discernable difference is to holes with speed nuts so it screws onto the original primary coil position.
    The twin coil system can be prone to failure and often starts by showing inconsistent firing.
    I'm sure I've forgotten something so I'll get back to you with anything else I think of. The injection system is so basic. It's nowhere near as complex as modern cars. Mostly completely binary and so very easy to diagnose.

  • @larrysimon1
    @larrysimon1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The V12's are fairly straight forward to diagnose.
    1. Check fuel pressure and volume at the fuel rail - pumps generally start to drop pressure/volume delivered to fuel rail. Volume is Very Important as you can have pressure but poor flow.
    2. Injectors remove and have them ASNU cleaned/tested for spray pattern and electrical function - ASNU Injector test bench was an Ozzie design. Injectors do gum up and electrically fail.
    3. Check Low tension voltage to Ignition coil and High Tension output from coil. check workshop manual for spec.
    4 Check HT leads for Ohms reading - no high resistance obviously. with age they weaken and hi resistance builds.
    5. Check Distributor rotor arm for breaking down - Hold HT King lead about 6mm from rotor arm contact and you should NOT HAVE spark jumping across - if you do rotor arm insulation has failed.
    Try these 5 steps - still no go let me know as I'm a retired Jag Master tech.

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi larry
      thanks for the advice yes you would think so however all the above has been checked and double checked, except for rotor arm insulation, will look at that . We need to dig deeper i think

    • @larrysimon1
      @larrysimon1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tjmthejagmandownunder What were your readings for Fuel pressure and flow volume ? Also Injector spray patterns? were they a nice even conical spray pattern from each injector with No dripping ?

  • @petem85793
    @petem85793 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you are familiar with the JagLovers website, on the XJ-S forum, there is a free book (about 800 pages) to download. It's called 'Experience in a Book' by Kirby Palm. It documents all the tricks and inside knowledge about XJ-Ss gleaned from decades on the forum. It is obviously very good for XJ12s too! There is a whole section on H.E. injection systems. One thing I remembered from when I redid all my XJ12 H.E. injection piping was - - - Don't use clamps! The fittings on H.E. engines have barbs that engage with the inside of the hose. Good Gates injection hose just pushes on. The little washers at the ends just cover the hose ends. Likewise for the long metal / rubber hoses on the sides of the fuel rail.

  • @NZBRG1
    @NZBRG1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Dr. Jag has alot of patience.

  • @jaguarrroman
    @jaguarrroman 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thumb up and good luck!

  • @petermyers5793
    @petermyers5793 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Adam at Living with a classic might be your man for this one.

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've PM'd him!😉

    • @johnmoruzzi7236
      @johnmoruzzi7236 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes he’s done a lot of V12 fault finding and fixes, his last elusive misfire was a sticky injector I think but he’s definitely traced wiring problems in the engine bay.

  • @jeffball6108
    @jeffball6108 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Mate.. I can't believe he went thru all that before doing an o/h on the injectors. Also, you can buy a complete injector overhaul kit from the uk that includes rubbers, original style crimps, filters and plinths for about $120. It ain't rocket science and well within your capabilities.. takes a day to do the lot. Quite frankly I think its a top priority job for any V12 xj

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Jeff
      We have always believed it to be an electrical problem
      At least they are done now!

  • @94xjrgodown2
    @94xjrgodown2 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    keep persevering. The biggest problem in 2022 is finding a a mechanic who can still work on these magnificent engines. All the guys who were the Rock star mechanics of all things Jaguar in the 80's and 90's are nearly all retired of have died. Taking the knowledge with them. May have to scour You tube and the like to see Jags with similar issues and see what they did to fix their cars.

  • @kevinhaigh1654
    @kevinhaigh1654 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Absolutely love the series 3 that is what I had in cobalt blue it was a 1986 model had it for about 5 years my favourite,

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Only if they work LOL

    • @kevinhaigh1654
      @kevinhaigh1654 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tjmthejagmandownunder 🤣🤣you definitely have that right fingers crossed you get it sorted out

  • @peterk4501
    @peterk4501 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Air leak in inlet manifold gasket.
    Use a smoke test to check, get some light oil and smoke it...costs a few cents to try.

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks Peter, tested that, no leaks!

    • @peterk4501
      @peterk4501 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tjmthejagmandownunder did you do a combustion chamber leak down pressure test ... valve sealing maybe unstable . The v12 has tendancy to drop valves as previous owners overheat them. It maybe in process of that occurring

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good idea. Will talk to the Dr

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@peterk4501 you are right Peter
      Has to be a leak somewhere. Butterfly valves are fully closed yet it still runs at 800rpm?
      No other leaks can be detected

    • @peterk4501
      @peterk4501 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tjmthejagmandownunder good luck on it, I hope it's not the valves, big expensive job.

  • @johnmoruzzi7236
    @johnmoruzzi7236 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Was there an Episode 13 ? Can’t see one listed and there’s no playlist for this car… You seemed to jump from fitting new ignition components to giving up and putting it on a trailer ?
    I’m not sure what the issue is…. missing a cylinder on the LH bank ? The loom does look crusty so due for a rebuild anyway. The injector system service must have helped, hopefully all the crud and fuel issues have now gone. Did you get all the pump / solenoid / gauge issues sorted ?
    Has Dr Jag put an infra-red thermometer / camera on the engine to see which cylinders are down ?
    It may go back to the original reason the car was laid up whatever that was…. a lot of the other issues (i.e. fuel system) may be after effects. Also you may have provoked a wiring fault with your initial cleaning and repairs but presumably that had been checked out now ?

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad you are on top of it John. I have now amended this to EP 13 and added it to the playlist. I take one million videos a week and they get a bit mixed up occasionally.
      Its not just missing on one cylinder, one cylinder would be easier to detect, its just not running right overall, fluctuating revs, fast idle and missing. Dr Jag rehased everything that i did and all check OK, you name and its been checked, all electrical, all fuel checks, compression test done, leak test done, all 12 cylinders are good.
      It was running fine when first started months ago. It started to play up after the rust issue when i pick it up from Dr Jag thats why we did the injectors but I knew that was not the issue. My diagnosis is that its sucking air from somewhere but all the obvious areas have been checked. Its funny as on the road it seems to drive ok, smooth with plenty of V12 power. I m sure we will get to bottom of it.
      Thanks for your contribution, it really helps!

  • @paulb1034
    @paulb1034 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting vlog Brett, I think I'll stick with the 4 Strombergs on my V12 🙂

  • @jeffball6108
    @jeffball6108 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Did he check the flow and spray pattern of the injectors?

  • @Dobbo2958
    @Dobbo2958 ปีที่แล้ว

    😀

  • @juanjosenavassnellen511
    @juanjosenavassnellen511 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Change lines of injectors and filters in it

  • @juanjosenavassnellen511
    @juanjosenavassnellen511 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Only 10 sparkplugs, still both front engine below compresor in?

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes you are correct but they are new ones put in couple of weeks ago. Good observation 👍

  • @chasermalloy7406
    @chasermalloy7406 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why on earth would you not replace the hoses while you have the whole assembly down ? Even if they still appear sound and don't show the start of the tiny cracking they are aged to some degree. A year from now they could be buggered. Sorry, I've been working on these things for nearly 40 years. A nice new full life set is the only way to go.

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      She'll be right Chaser. Gotta keep the $$ down. Need to source the problem before spending too much.I have a full kit at home and can do another time. Any opinion what's wrong? It has a vacuum leak and cannot find it
      Hopefully will not own it in a year!

    • @chasermalloy7406
      @chasermalloy7406 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tjmthejagmandownunder "she'll be right " Oh of course you're an Aussie. Forgot. lol Understood - you're saying you can do the hoses yourself and you want to keep the labor cost down in this job ? Fair enough. I gather you don't know how long they've been on ? Crazy to miss the opportunity to put the new ones on. It's no quick easy job when you have to pull it all down again. Hose length on injectors is important too. Cutting much at all off the ends not recommended. Lowering the fuel rail can cause clearance issues elsewhere. As for the vacuum leak there are plenty of opportunities for them ! A common cause is also incorrect fitting of the vacuum lines around all of the various time delay units / vacuum advance / fuel pressure regulators etc. Something like a check valve fitted the wrong way so that it's allowing rather than checking air flow. Best to check the routing and connections for all the vacuum lines against the schematic before you start. A vacuum leak just should not be hard to find.
      Now have I convinced you to put those new clean supple round correct length hoses on with the nice matching round correct clamps ? These appear to have the hoses fitted D jetronic style with the clamps. Makes me wonder whether it's even the right hose type too. I guess the set you already have is the proper push on HE type ? Ever had to repair one that's had an engine bay fire ? I've done several. Worse still I've had to repair one that someone else "repaired" after an engine bay fire. You'll be struggling to " keep the dollars down " if that fire happens ! I'm an Aussie too by the way so no offence meant. Good luck with it all. cheers

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Mate
      Yes you are correct. They should be fully replaced under different circumstances though!
      I didn't know he was going to remove the rail until I got there. The hoses were fine soft not brittle and will last another 10 years. No way we would leave brittle dangerous fuel hoses on the car. Don't forget it's not Dr Jags first rodeo either. 😉 Yes have seen plenty with engine fire damage, nearly bought one.
      Keep you posted thanks for support. TJM

    • @chasermalloy7406
      @chasermalloy7406 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@tjmthejagmandownunder I'm, going to post once more on this aspect then I'll leave it alone. The only way they will ever last ten years is if you leave them in the packet. These things need to be changed every three years on a regularly driven car to be safe. I've seen a rarely used 1987 XJ12 I that look after show fine cracking in the hoses I would think after only about 4 or 5 years. Now, this car seems to likely have had the injectors replaced. I say that because I see the correct HE setup on the hoses at the injector end but clamps on the rail end like the D jetronic setup. They sell " reconditioned " injectors like this. They supply them with the correct HE setup and new hose attached but not the correct setup for the rail end. Don't know they do it but I don't like it. If I remeber correctly the barb on the HE is a little shorter too. They are not designed to be clamped. They are designed to seal when pushed on with the correct type of hose... That's the system. He wants to trim a bit off the end so the outside of the hose is round. OK that can be done, but you are then repositioning the inside of the hose which has already been clamped onto the barb. There is no way you can cut enough off the hose to have the barb positioned on a fresh section inside the hose. So, you will have the barb in only a slightly different and chewing into a spot where the previous barb grooves already are. Terrible. If you're determined to use the old hoses let them snap back into their previous position and put the new clamps on. . ( And hope for the best ! ) This is my last word on the hoses !!!!
      One more point on the fuel subject though. I don't suppose I have to ask whether you are going to drain and examine the tanks and do the filter before you attempt to start it again ? That stuff he blew out of the injector baskets suggests some water in the tanks at some point rather than just dirt.

  • @doktar.diagnosis6706
    @doktar.diagnosis6706 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    clean the electric choke

    • @chasermalloy7406
      @chasermalloy7406 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No electric choke on this one.

    • @tjmthejagmandownunder
      @tjmthejagmandownunder  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      No electric choke this old girl

    • @chasermalloy7406
      @chasermalloy7406 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cold start and full throttle enrichment on these engines is done by extending the injector pulse.

  • @jeffball6108
    @jeffball6108 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    There's a website called camp chaos chronicles.. he has some good stuff on injectors, also 'living with a classic' website