Thank you for the test. I got the z6iii after having the s5iix. I think Nikon applies less noise reduction compared to the competition, because even at 800iso there is a little more noise than the s5iix, that's why the z6iii seems more "detailed", because the noise reduction (on s5ii or other cams) reduces the noise but you lose a little detail. When you add noise reduction in post on the z6iii, you will have shadows as smooth as the competition, but also with a loss of detail
@@cinematools That's just simply not true. 6K is more detailed on the S5II than the 4K on the A7IV. And it's not even close. Gordon has a nice little video about it: th-cam.com/video/7MUNajesUM0/w-d-xo.html A7IV has an edge in 4K/60 as it's oversampled, but other than that, it's pretty much neck and neck, with the 6K being clearly superior.
@@cinematools Thanks for the link. I find Gordon's testing method more comprehensive and you can clearly see the 6k's advantage there. You also seemed to use the cheapest kit lens on the Panasonic, so that might have something to do with your results.
Thanks for your great tests, some of the best on YT. The S5 ii have more DR but I prefer the Nikon colors and rendering (Upsharping, NR etc.). So N-Raw winns over H265.
I got S5 II with Sigma 24-70 II. It cost me way a lot more than a month's wages. I'm no rich. So I'm still reading how it compares to other beasts out there even with the newer ones like Z6 III . I'm an amateur. I don't make money out of it . I don't even post on social. I'm so glad that I got sth that exceeds my expectations and my capabilities for the years to come. And almost Half the price of a Z6 III with a comparable lens like Sigma. The 24-70 DG DN II screams Quality. I'm so proud and glad of my Lumix... It will take me years to explore what it can offer .... Plus I still get updates... 3.1 just rolled out in Oct 24 ...The support is just so amazing .... I'm so proud ....
Interesting test. These log curves are different. N-log is highlight weighted vs. v-log being shadow weighted...that combined with the imx410 having a little better dynamic range than the sensor in the Z63, and you see exactly what you stated...similar highlight performance, and better shadow performance in the s52. The detail comparisons are pretty crazy tho. I really think Nikon should offer a high DR mode kind of like Panasonic does in their newer cams. The readout is so fast, and really fast than you need for most things...having the option to slow it down and in return gain a little range would be very appealing.
@cinematools i know sigma art series is very good but you should have used native glass for lumix as well for the fair comparison anyways great video...
Nikon applies zero Noise reduction on Z6iii , that's why it has both better details and more noise in low light when compared to others. But I'd rather have higher detailed video to begin with, I can always apply NR later if I want, I don't like when manufacturers decide to dull down details just to give less noisy picture like in smartphones. BTW ISO 6400 on Z6iii is second base ISO in N-LOG, make sure to use it instead of say 3200
It plays a role but it's not just that. For ISO and latitude tests Nikon is set to H265 which applies noise reduction. Panasonic S5 II in 6k is less detailed than A7 IV in 4K. S5 II sensor is not super sharp despite the resolution.
@@cinematools I don't think the S5II sensor is not super sharp, I found the raw files very sharp compared to my Sony cameras. The issue is not the sensor sharpness, but the processing they use in video, noise reduction, sharpening but I also suspect upscaled resolution (from a lower resolution) in order to reduce the processing power on the S5II.
@@aiseurnae5976correct, Panasonic is pretty sharp. I use a Black Magic video assist with mine and it’s super sharp. I also have BM Cinema 6k which is a tab sharper as far as detail. It seems the Nikon may edge out the Panasonic in detail but they both are excellent and with the Video features of the Panasonic, it’s hard to not like it.
@@MrJayclas The Panasonic is sharp yes but in a bad way, the fine details are not as good as they used to be on the first gen S cameras. The result is an image looking like upscaled and oversharpened. I suppose the image is ok for most people, especially influencers or people who don't crop a inside their videos, but the downgrade is real. The only way to bypass the bad details and processing is to use external recording.
I was very disappointed by the 4k quality of the S5II when I compared to my S1. Something looks wrong on 4k with the S5II, the fine details are not great and they look oversharpened by the camera (709 profiles are really really bad), I don't know if it is the price to pay to get the much better IBIS but I'm really not a fan of this camera. Even 5,9K and Open Gate V-log don't look as good as the S1. Do you know if any noise reduction/detail filtering are applied on N-RAW ? Because the S5II is certainly cleaner but it has bad detail rendering in low light, like if some temporal noise reduction are applied, altering fine details in a bad way. I don't see the issue at all on my S1 with the last firmware.
N-RAW does not have internal noise reduction. Although the noise pattern looks good, it can become very noisy when underexposed. Noisy shadows are the biggest issues of Z6 III.
@@CanaryFilmPro Then the only advantage of RAW is the added color depth. Usually a huge reason to shoot in RAW is flexibility in post, but if you have to get the exposure exactly right to prevent the shadows from becoming garbage that takes away from the advantage of using RAW.
No way when using internal recording. At this point I'm note sure it is really the noise reduction which make the video quality worse than the first S5, I think it's more because of some sort of detail filtering or lower actual resolution coupled with too much digital sharpening.
Raw on the S5II is much better. Prores HQ has the same bad processing than H265. For what it's worth I used all the S cameras and I can say the 4K coming from the S5/S1/S1H is much nicer, better details and no oversharpening. To the point I sold my S5II, the AF and IBIS are indeed much better than before, but the video quality took a hit.
@@cinematools both 24mp? Lumix has live view composite, high res mode and even in hand held 96mp, pre burst on raw 30fps so 1.5sec of frames is already captured before pressing. real time lut so you can already shoot on the colors you like, and even edit or make lots in the labs app and send them to camera etc. I think the s5II is pretty loaded on photo functions :). I don't know about the Nikon or what functions it has
While I appreciate the video, something seems off about the sharpness tests. If my S5IIX had that poor of detail as the one you used, I would have returned it / sold it a long time ago. I find 6K and 4K to be quite sharp. Also, it appears that in the lattitude tests, the S5II was sharper than the Z6 III. Maybe one lens has better sharpness at closer focus distances than the other?
For sharpness tests, the lenses were stopped down to either F5.6 or F8, can't check the metadata now. The latitude tests were wide open to F4 at close distances, so it's likely a focus issue. Panasonic S5 6K is sharp, it's just less sharp compared to the Z6 III in N-RAW. 4K is softer on Panasonic and corresponds to other tests we've done with the camera.
@@cinematoolsWhen buy either the s5ii or the Nikon z6iii you have to know what they will come with. If I get the s5ii I'll try to avoid movements that will bring that bad rolling shutter. And if the content is for TH-cam and only for you a lot of things don't matter as nobody tells you how you're content has to be...
Graded with Cinema Tools LUTs
www.cinematools.co/shop
Thank you for the test.
I got the z6iii after having the s5iix. I think Nikon applies less noise reduction compared to the competition, because even at 800iso there is a little more noise than the s5iix, that's why the z6iii seems more "detailed", because the noise reduction (on s5ii or other cams) reduces the noise but you lose a little detail. When you add noise reduction in post on the z6iii, you will have shadows as smooth as the competition, but also with a loss of detail
It does but it's still incredibly detailed in 6k. 6k on S5 II is softer than 4k on A7IV, which also applies aggressive noise reduction.
@@cinematoolsMaybe because a7IV 4k has 7k oversampling?
@@cinematools That's just simply not true. 6K is more detailed on the S5II than the 4K on the A7IV. And it's not even close. Gordon has a nice little video about it: th-cam.com/video/7MUNajesUM0/w-d-xo.html
A7IV has an edge in 4K/60 as it's oversampled, but other than that, it's pretty much neck and neck, with the 6K being clearly superior.
@@laliland not in our tests
th-cam.com/video/V50m_DxwcxY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BE2KuUwm2sZpPYIH
@@cinematools Thanks for the link. I find Gordon's testing method more comprehensive and you can clearly see the 6k's advantage there. You also seemed to use the cheapest kit lens on the Panasonic, so that might have something to do with your results.
Thanks for your great tests, some of the best on YT. The S5 ii have more DR but I prefer the Nikon colors and rendering (Upsharping, NR etc.). So N-Raw winns over H265.
Thanks for watching!
At 4:05, would you have any images of the Z8 in this studio configuration? (for comparison with the Z6III, for example)
We have a dedicated Z6 III vs Z8 video, which covers color too
th-cam.com/video/ch2it-dVRi0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WoB8NrIVjxPBo4tb
I got S5 II with Sigma 24-70 II. It cost me way a lot more than a month's wages. I'm no rich. So I'm still reading how it compares to other beasts out there even with the newer ones like Z6 III . I'm an amateur. I don't make money out of it . I don't even post on social. I'm so glad that I got sth that exceeds my expectations and my capabilities for the years to come. And almost Half the price of a Z6 III with a comparable lens like Sigma. The 24-70 DG DN II screams Quality. I'm so proud and glad of my Lumix... It will take me years to explore what it can offer .... Plus I still get updates... 3.1 just rolled out in Oct 24 ...The support is just so amazing .... I'm so proud ....
It's a good camera, especially considering the price.
Interesting test. These log curves are different. N-log is highlight weighted vs. v-log being shadow weighted...that combined with the imx410 having a little better dynamic range than the sensor in the Z63, and you see exactly what you stated...similar highlight performance, and better shadow performance in the s52. The detail comparisons are pretty crazy tho. I really think Nikon should offer a high DR mode kind of like Panasonic does in their newer cams. The readout is so fast, and really fast than you need for most things...having the option to slow it down and in return gain a little range would be very appealing.
That would be nice. Something similar to HDR X on RED, since they own it now.
Which lenses have you used...?
Sigma 28-70 2.8 on S5 II and Nikon 28-75 2.8
@cinematools i know sigma art series is very good but you should have used native glass for lumix as well for the fair comparison anyways great video...
@@abhisheknarayandhyani731@ abhisheknarayandhyani731 the MTF is the same at F5.6-F8 for modern lenses, which we used for sharpness tests.
Nikon applies zero Noise reduction on Z6iii , that's why it has both better details and more noise in low light when compared to others. But I'd rather have higher detailed video to begin with, I can always apply NR later if I want, I don't like when manufacturers decide to dull down details just to give less noisy picture like in smartphones. BTW ISO 6400 on Z6iii is second base ISO in N-LOG, make sure to use it instead of say 3200
It plays a role but it's not just that. For ISO and latitude tests Nikon is set to H265 which applies noise reduction.
Panasonic S5 II in 6k is less detailed than A7 IV in 4K. S5 II sensor is not super sharp despite the resolution.
@@cinematools I don't think the S5II sensor is not super sharp, I found the raw files very sharp compared to my Sony cameras. The issue is not the sensor sharpness, but the processing they use in video, noise reduction, sharpening but I also suspect upscaled resolution (from a lower resolution) in order to reduce the processing power on the S5II.
@@aiseurnae5976correct, Panasonic is pretty sharp. I use a Black Magic video assist with mine and it’s super sharp. I also have BM Cinema 6k which is a tab sharper as far as detail. It seems the Nikon may edge out the Panasonic in detail but they both are excellent and with the Video features of the Panasonic, it’s hard to not like it.
@@MrJayclas The Panasonic is sharp yes but in a bad way, the fine details are not as good as they used to be on the first gen S cameras. The result is an image looking like upscaled and oversharpened. I suppose the image is ok for most people, especially influencers or people who don't crop a inside their videos, but the downgrade is real. The only way to bypass the bad details and processing is to use external recording.
I was very disappointed by the 4k quality of the S5II when I compared to my S1. Something looks wrong on 4k with the S5II, the fine details are not great and they look oversharpened by the camera (709 profiles are really really bad), I don't know if it is the price to pay to get the much better IBIS but I'm really not a fan of this camera. Even 5,9K and Open Gate V-log don't look as good as the S1.
Do you know if any noise reduction/detail filtering are applied on N-RAW ? Because the S5II is certainly cleaner but it has bad detail rendering in low light, like if some temporal noise reduction are applied, altering fine details in a bad way. I don't see the issue at all on my S1 with the last firmware.
N-RAW does not have internal noise reduction. Although the noise pattern looks good, it can become very noisy when underexposed. Noisy shadows are the biggest issues of Z6 III.
@@cinematools Thank you very much, I prefer noisy shadows over noise reduction.
@@cinematools if you expose correctly, you don’t have any problem with noise on the Nikon
@@CanaryFilmPro true, but other cameras have more leeway in post if you go a little under.
@@CanaryFilmPro Then the only advantage of RAW is the added color depth. Usually a huge reason to shoot in RAW is flexibility in post, but if you have to get the exposure exactly right to prevent the shadows from becoming garbage that takes away from the advantage of using RAW.
Question: isn't it possible to turn off noise reduction on the S5ii? Then the iso tests should be similar, right?
Not that I'm aware of. Maybe on S5IIX with ProRes recording. But Z6III has noisier shadows than other cameras in this class.
No way when using internal recording. At this point I'm note sure it is really the noise reduction which make the video quality worse than the first S5, I think it's more because of some sort of detail filtering or lower actual resolution coupled with too much digital sharpening.
Can you test S5IIX RAW/ProRes HQ vs ZIII RAW in same video modes?:)Strange that S5II 4k downscaled video is softer.
It would make sense but unfortunately, we only had S5 II for the test.
Raw on the S5II is much better. Prores HQ has the same bad processing than H265. For what it's worth I used all the S cameras and I can say the 4K coming from the S5/S1/S1H is much nicer, better details and no oversharpening. To the point I sold my S5II, the AF and IBIS are indeed much better than before, but the video quality took a hit.
@@aiseurnae5976 ProRes HQ is miles better than H265
What are the better photo capabilities of the z6III compared to the s5II?
Better resolution, better autofocus, better color (subjective).
@@cinematools both 24mp?
Lumix has live view composite, high res mode and even in hand held 96mp, pre burst on raw 30fps so 1.5sec of frames is already captured before pressing. real time lut so you can already shoot on the colors you like, and even edit or make lots in the labs app and send them to camera etc. I think the s5II is pretty loaded on photo functions :). I don't know about the Nikon or what functions it has
Did you use the same lens on both? Because that’s kinda important lol
It's not. All modern lenses have the same MTF at f5.6-f8
@@cinematools you shpuld use the same lens to be fair.
While I appreciate the video, something seems off about the sharpness tests. If my S5IIX had that poor of detail as the one you used, I would have returned it / sold it a long time ago. I find 6K and 4K to be quite sharp. Also, it appears that in the lattitude tests, the S5II was sharper than the Z6 III. Maybe one lens has better sharpness at closer focus distances than the other?
For sharpness tests, the lenses were stopped down to either F5.6 or F8, can't check the metadata now. The latitude tests were wide open to F4 at close distances, so it's likely a focus issue.
Panasonic S5 6K is sharp, it's just less sharp compared to the Z6 III in N-RAW. 4K is softer on Panasonic and corresponds to other tests we've done with the camera.
Panasonic = Nikon colors + (magenta +2, Clarity +2, Grain - 5) + better IBIS
It's easy to match color but you cannot match detalisation or rolling shutter.
@@cinematools indeed
@@cinematoolsWhen buy either the s5ii or the Nikon z6iii you have to know what they will come with. If I get the s5ii I'll try to avoid movements that will bring that bad rolling shutter. And if the content is for TH-cam and only for you a lot of things don't matter as nobody tells you how you're content has to be...
A comparison with the S5iiX would have been better with SSD ProRes HQ or ProRes raw, BRAW vs N-Raw.
s5ii no overheating...great video
S5 look better overall. Thats quite surprising.
i see llumix is much sharper in video
z6iii is doing terrible in iso test even with the lowest iso you can see bouncing shadows.
That video proved that nikon People are delusionals when they say nikon is so close to arri haha.
Alexa costs 100k, it's in a different league.
All of these new cameras are pretty close. Once you add an external recorder for RAW, they are really close.
@@MrJayclas yes, the differences are pretty minor.