My suspicion with the focus on funnels is the same thing that blights TTRPG conversations in general; people do not actually play the game. They just talk about it.
That has the ring of truth. So far all I've gotten out of my 5e group was a funnel one-shot game. But then it came to playing 1st level characters and we hit a wall of "now I have to learn a new game". Ah well, back to 5e. They don't mind Knave, though. Maybe I can slowly port parts of DCC over, piece by piece :)
@@scottosau There is a follow-up adventure for Sailors on the Starless Sea called Chanters in the Dark. What it does in a cool way is that it's semi open and gives some classes ways of getting their abilities naturally. For example, there is a place of worship that could be used to become a cleric or ways of getting spells for wizards/elves. You can do that with any kind of adventure after the funnel - just give them one or two abilities of their chosen class and sprinkle ways of getting the rest as they go through the adventure. Not only it feels cool but also allows them to learn as they go. On top of that, core mechanics of the game is the same - it's roll D20, add a number and compare to a DC. There's nothing to learn for players really ;)
Yep. It’s a sensitive subject when you bring it up on forums. Lots of people in the TTRPG ‘community’ spend 20+ hours a month talking theory-craft, sharing enthusiasm for adventures, making recommendations, etc… and 0 hours a month playing TTRPGs. And issues that are widely accepted in online spaces as big problems with a specific game or the hobby in general aren’t actually a problem at all to people who play the game in the wild.
Not only is DCC great, Goodman Games is just a really great company. Their promotion of 3rd party content, their love for what they do, and both their style and substance are excellent.
I don't have anything against them, they're just not for me. High mortality isn't my bag. I can have fun with it once in a blue moon, but it's not gonna be my regular system.
Even tho funnels are fun by themselves I don't understand why for so many people that I've talked about DCC with focus so much on playing funnels. Isn't anybody else excited to play the rest of the game? I sure do.
It is my opinion that the 0-level funnel is simply the final step in the randomization process of creating a 1st-level character. You could just roll up 4 level-0 characters and randomly select one to become your 1st level character, but that's not very fun. Running them through a funnel is a lot more fun and it creates an attachment to your surviving character(s).
Everytime I run or play DCC I invariably have fun. It's like a big dumb brother that comes into town to drink - version of D&D. Or a weird, cool uncle.
well it is simple un complicaqted and dose waht it takes to have fun with out any unessacry stuff like feats or builds because it has been there nad understood long ago that feat and builds are not what makes dnd dnd
Do people *_really_* miss the value of DCC? I think that a lot of casual convention players only know the system from the funnels, but anyone who has dipped even a little bit deeper should appreciate the wild and lovely gonzo style of play. Even at first level, once a wizard spellburns for broke, revelation should come. As for the thief, I think of the them as having a moment every adventure where they can essentially be James Bond, and pull off the nearly-impossible with spectacular elan. Halflings are great for people-pleasers who don't need to be on the center stage. Everyone remembers when the halfling player saved their bacon. Clerics _seem_ like the least interesting class, but in practice, they can be a lot of fun when the player has to deal with the deity disapproval, and I've seen some spectacular stuff happen with divine intervention. I'm an advocate of god-specific disapproval tables, and replacing _turn unholy_ with something pertinent to the cleric's religion.
I ran MCC last year and had a ton of 0lvl characters start out trying to escape from a group of people intent on taking mutations from people and weponizing them. They spent about an hour escaping from town, having to make checks and fight a few members of the invading group, and then the funnel started and literally lasted the duration of the song Highway Star. Basically they made their way to a cash of goods and vehicles they had collected and hidden away and as they got to the interstate to escape the song started and the enemy attacked, launching everything they had at them including grenades and a hyper mutated monster they created. This killed a few of the PCs and by the end of the song they had crashed into a underground fortress which was the start of the actual quest and everyone remaining was level 1.
Recently I took the plunge to DCC.... I have not regretted it at all. Great fun, as long as you don't project yourself onto the characters you play....they are pawns and easily replaced!
I love Goodman as a company, but I don't enjoy DCC. I prefer rules to tables (so I don't have to keep stopping the game to reference charts). I disliked the Character Funnel adventure design - I'd prefer character creation based on skill and knowledge than just randomness.
People really overemphasize the funnel. It’s fun a couple times every few years, but the best part comes after. I understand not wanting to have to reference the tables!
I wish I could find games at cons other than funnels. They’re ideal for cons, but I’d really like to play beyond level 0. I have enough campaigns so that isn’t an option. One day….
Also something people seem to miss about DCC is that they are trying to emulate Appendix N experience. I read the whole appendix N, not only blew my mind it change my way of playing RPGs forever.
I had trouble running successful DCC games in the past. You have explained why. I was running D&D with DCC RPG rules. No wonder it never worked! It wasn't until I ran a couple DCC modules that I began to see how it was different. DCC is not D&D. It is Appendix N-- swords and sorcery planetary fantasy wild-a$$ adventure torn from the pages of Weird Tales. Take off your pants to play DCC, because you do yourself and the game a disservice if you are not going ba11s out. Think of your player characters as a rock n roll band (see Kings of the Wyld, by Nicholas Eames). Live fast and die young! Burn through that treasure and gold on your way to the top! The game is about glory, not heroism.
In fact, D&D is appendix N. Elric, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Conan, Clarck Ashton Smith, etc. The problem is that 5E, 4E or PF2 are not D&D, but World of Warcraft transkated into a TTRPG or even Superhéroes in Fantasy.
DCC really takes off at level 1. It's an amazing system! The Warrior is the best designed Fighter type ever. All the classes are amazing. The best magic system ever put to paper. It's a great game!
I’ll agree. The only quibble I have is with the Mighty Deed. There’s literally no disincentive not to attempt a MD on every single attack, so it’s more like Mundane Deed. A Mighty Deed should be limited to perhaps 3 per day, have a consequence for failing one, etc…something to make it special or have a reason not to literally attempt one on every single swing. One of my very, very, very few tiny complaints in an incredible system.
@@mookiewilson4166 Part of the awesomeness of it is that Mighty Deeds replace all feats or special combat actions. Trips, bleeding wounds, and a ton more are all examples.
Guess what? I'm gonna try to wrap my head around DCC. Surprised? My chief complaint was "it's too much 3/3.5" which I chalked up to Goodman used to publish for that edition. NOW, I'm seeing it with fresh eyes. Might as well take a look at it again. BTW, are you suggesting Hyperborea stole the Mighty Deeds mechanic for their "Extraordinary Feats of..." mechanic?
Not quite! Extraordinary feats sounds like your basic roll under stat check. Mighty deeds starts with a d3 at level1. When you make an attack, you roll the d3 with it and announce what mighty deed you’d like to do. It can be anything from throwing sand in the eyes to disarming to whatever you can think of. If the d3 comes up a 3+ AND your attack hits, you succeed in the deed. The Judge will decide how it works mechanically. As you level up, the deed die gets bigger. d4, d5, d6, etc. the higher you roll on the deed die, the greater the effect. A 3 on the “sand in the eyes” may be -1 on attacks for the enemy for the next round, but a 6 might be a -4 on attacks. Either way you slice it, the deed die gets added to the to-hit role. Kind of in place of a THAC0 increase. It allows the Warrior to do cool stuff all the time and feel more like a pulp sword and sorcery badass. The only 3E I see in DCC is the saving throws and the unified d20 mechanic. None of the mechanical bloat.
@@AaronthePedantic Good point. The mechanic I like. My impression of DCC dates back to being a guest on the Spellburn podcast and running through a short encounter with the cast. Just eft a bad taste in my mouth. However, I'm willing to look at it again because one reviewer mentioned my trigger word for the game: "GONZO." I love gonzo games, being a Gamma World/Mutant Future player/GM from way back.
Good luck! I’d say just make sure they know the best parts are after the funnel. Some will find it refreshing to be torn to shreds, others will grumble in frustration as they don’t come to fantasy to be expendable peasantry. 🤣
TOO CLOSE! Srlsy dude, I'm pretty sure I can see you at the cellular level at this camera angle. It's really disturbing. I'm afraid you're trying to come through the screen and make out with me.
DCC is the only game I play currently and I'm good with that. My players love 0-level funnels, and frequently want to go back and do another. A few of my players have hit level 2 and it was a joyful event for them because they earned it through careful play and bold action!
Are you sure about that? 🤔 Where would I have gotten that from? Maybe a house rule out Judge used. Page 108. It’s in there. Kind of. You don’t get it back, but you can cast it again anyway
@@AaronthePedantic I'm sure, but house rules are awesome. I'm not saying it's a bad way to play, but the name of your channel is Aaron the Pedantic 😂. As long as you don't fumble a spell, you can keep casting it, even if it you fail. You only lose it on a fumble.
@@midnightgreen8319 That is incorrect. On p. 110 of the 8th printing of the DCC RPG rulebook, it states: Each spell’s casting table will indicate “lost” or “not lost” in each result entry. A result of “lost” means your character cannot cast that spell again in that day. “Not lost” means the character retains the use of that spell. Generally, only wizard spells are lost when a casting fails. Looking at the 1st level spell Animal Summoning on p.129 (8th printing) we see that on the spell check result of 1 it reads: Lost, failure, and worse! Roll 1d6 modified by Luck: (0 or less) corruption + misfire + patron taint, (1-2) corruption, (3) patron taint (or corruption if no patron), (4+) misfire. and then for a spell check result of 2-11 it reads: Lost. Failure. You regain your lost spells at a time decided upon by consensus between player and Judge. On p. 110 it states: In general, spells are regained within a day of being lost. The exact trigger depends on the magic in question. White magic is regained at the next sunrise; black magic upon the moon crossing the sky in full; demon magic after a full eight hours of rest; divine magic after resting and praying to the cleric’s god; and so on, as agreed between player and judge based on the nature of the character’s magic. There are no such designations as "white" magic or "black magic" in the spell descriptions. There are no official schools of magic. The classification system of magic is decided upon by the player and the Judge working together to create the flavor of the Wizard that the player is wishing to play. Now there is Ritual Magic, which is magic cast by Clerics, but the Cleric magic system works differently than it does for Wizards and Elves. Instead of spell loss, Clerics have Disapproval to deal with. Back to Wizards and Elves, they can spellburn to cast a spell that has been lost for the day. On page 108 of the 8th printing of the DCC RPG rulebook, it states: Regaining spells via spellburn: A wizard may use spellburn to cast spells he has lost for the day (through previous casting, for example). If a wizard expends a lost spell’s level in ability score points, he can cast the spell as if he still had it. For example, a wizard could burn 2 points of ability scores to cast a level 2 spell he had lost for the day. So, you might be playing with a house rule that says that spells are only lost on a fumble, and that's great if you and your Judge wish to play that way, but RAW, spells are lost on a spell check result of 1-11.
My suspicion with the focus on funnels is the same thing that blights TTRPG conversations in general; people do not actually play the game. They just talk about it.
That has the ring of truth. So far all I've gotten out of my 5e group was a funnel one-shot game. But then it came to playing 1st level characters and we hit a wall of "now I have to learn a new game". Ah well, back to 5e.
They don't mind Knave, though. Maybe I can slowly port parts of DCC over, piece by piece :)
@@scottosau There is a follow-up adventure for Sailors on the Starless Sea called Chanters in the Dark. What it does in a cool way is that it's semi open and gives some classes ways of getting their abilities naturally. For example, there is a place of worship that could be used to become a cleric or ways of getting spells for wizards/elves. You can do that with any kind of adventure after the funnel - just give them one or two abilities of their chosen class and sprinkle ways of getting the rest as they go through the adventure. Not only it feels cool but also allows them to learn as they go.
On top of that, core mechanics of the game is the same - it's roll D20, add a number and compare to a DC. There's nothing to learn for players really ;)
Yep. It’s a sensitive subject when you bring it up on forums. Lots of people in the TTRPG ‘community’ spend 20+ hours a month talking theory-craft, sharing enthusiasm for adventures, making recommendations, etc… and 0 hours a month playing TTRPGs. And issues that are widely accepted in online spaces as big problems with a specific game or the hobby in general aren’t actually a problem at all to people who play the game in the wild.
Talking without any sort of knowledge…. So… the Internet then.
I discovered DCC a couple months ago, and Holy shit what an amazing system. I've made it a mission of mine to introduce more people to the joys of DCC
Not only is DCC great, Goodman Games is just a really great company. Their promotion of 3rd party content, their love for what they do, and both their style and substance are excellent.
They love Appendix N, and it's amazing. Wonderful stuff.
I don't have anything against them, they're just not for me. High mortality isn't my bag. I can have fun with it once in a blue moon, but it's not gonna be my regular system.
Even tho funnels are fun by themselves I don't understand why for so many people that I've talked about DCC with focus so much on playing funnels. Isn't anybody else excited to play the rest of the game? I sure do.
The funnel should really be just seen as extended Character creation before the real Game play and all the mad fun of that
It is my opinion that the 0-level funnel is simply the final step in the randomization process of creating a 1st-level character. You could just roll up 4 level-0 characters and randomly select one to become your 1st level character, but that's not very fun. Running them through a funnel is a lot more fun and it creates an attachment to your surviving character(s).
A hundred percent accurate, my friend. It’s fun, and it gives everyone a shared background. No more bickering about backstories!
Everytime I run or play DCC I invariably have fun. It's like a big dumb brother that comes into town to drink - version of D&D. Or a weird, cool uncle.
well it is simple un complicaqted and dose waht it takes to have fun with out any unessacry stuff like feats or builds because it has been there nad understood long ago that feat and builds are not what makes dnd dnd
Love to see you back
Do people *_really_* miss the value of DCC? I think that a lot of casual convention players only know the system from the funnels, but anyone who has dipped even a little bit deeper should appreciate the wild and lovely gonzo style of play. Even at first level, once a wizard spellburns for broke, revelation should come.
As for the thief, I think of the them as having a moment every adventure where they can essentially be James Bond, and pull off the nearly-impossible with spectacular elan. Halflings are great for people-pleasers who don't need to be on the center stage. Everyone remembers when the halfling player saved their bacon.
Clerics _seem_ like the least interesting class, but in practice, they can be a lot of fun when the player has to deal with the deity disapproval, and I've seen some spectacular stuff happen with divine intervention. I'm an advocate of god-specific disapproval tables, and replacing _turn unholy_ with something pertinent to the cleric's religion.
I ran MCC last year and had a ton of 0lvl characters start out trying to escape from a group of people intent on taking mutations from people and weponizing them. They spent about an hour escaping from town, having to make checks and fight a few members of the invading group, and then the funnel started and literally lasted the duration of the song Highway Star. Basically they made their way to a cash of goods and vehicles they had collected and hidden away and as they got to the interstate to escape the song started and the enemy attacked, launching everything they had at them including grenades and a hyper mutated monster they created. This killed a few of the PCs and by the end of the song they had crashed into a underground fortress which was the start of the actual quest and everyone remaining was level 1.
Hahaha that is awesome!
This kind of analysis of a specific (and non 5e or Pathfinder) game by someone experienced in playing it is a rare gem on youtube
Always good to see you Aaron!
Recently I took the plunge to DCC.... I have not regretted it at all. Great fun, as long as you don't project yourself onto the characters you play....they are pawns and easily replaced!
I love Goodman as a company, but I don't enjoy DCC. I prefer rules to tables (so I don't have to keep stopping the game to reference charts). I disliked the Character Funnel adventure design - I'd prefer character creation based on skill and knowledge than just randomness.
People really overemphasize the funnel. It’s fun a couple times every few years, but the best part comes after. I understand not wanting to have to reference the tables!
That's fair. It's just a matter of taste.
I wish I could find games at cons other than funnels. They’re ideal for cons, but I’d really like to play beyond level 0. I have enough campaigns so that isn’t an option. One day….
I hope that you do! I think I’ll run a DCC module at the next NTRPG Con
DCC and the year zero engine are starting to become my bread and butter for GMing. Every other system feels either too complex or too simple to me
Also something people seem to miss about DCC is that they are trying to emulate Appendix N experience. I read the whole appendix N, not only blew my mind it change my way of playing RPGs forever.
DCC has gotten me reading more in the last 2 years than in the previous 10 years.
I had trouble running successful DCC games in the past. You have explained why. I was running D&D with DCC RPG rules. No wonder it never worked! It wasn't until I ran a couple DCC modules that I began to see how it was different.
DCC is not D&D. It is Appendix N-- swords and sorcery planetary fantasy wild-a$$ adventure torn from the pages of Weird Tales. Take off your pants to play DCC, because you do yourself and the game a disservice if you are not going ba11s out.
Think of your player characters as a rock n roll band (see Kings of the Wyld, by Nicholas Eames). Live fast and die young! Burn through that treasure and gold on your way to the top! The game is about glory, not heroism.
Well said!
In fact, D&D is appendix N. Elric, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Conan, Clarck Ashton Smith, etc.
The problem is that 5E, 4E or PF2 are not D&D, but World of Warcraft transkated into a TTRPG or even Superhéroes in Fantasy.
DCC really takes off at level 1. It's an amazing system! The Warrior is the best designed Fighter type ever. All the classes are amazing. The best magic system ever put to paper. It's a great game!
Hell yeah!
I’ll agree. The only quibble I have is with the Mighty Deed. There’s literally no disincentive not to attempt a MD on every single attack, so it’s more like Mundane Deed.
A Mighty Deed should be limited to perhaps 3 per day, have a consequence for failing one, etc…something to make it special or have a reason not to literally attempt one on every single swing.
One of my very, very, very few tiny complaints in an incredible system.
@@mookiewilson4166 Part of the awesomeness of it is that Mighty Deeds replace all feats or special combat actions. Trips, bleeding wounds, and a ton more are all examples.
@@midnightgreen8319 That’s true.
You may re-upload your DDC exhaustive review video with time stamps…Just a sugestion.
Wouldn’t be a bad idea!
Guess what? I'm gonna try to wrap my head around DCC.
Surprised?
My chief complaint was "it's too much 3/3.5" which I chalked up to Goodman used to publish for that edition.
NOW, I'm seeing it with fresh eyes. Might as well take a look at it again.
BTW, are you suggesting Hyperborea stole the Mighty Deeds mechanic for their "Extraordinary Feats of..." mechanic?
Not quite! Extraordinary feats sounds like your basic roll under stat check. Mighty deeds starts with a d3 at level1. When you make an attack, you roll the d3 with it and announce what mighty deed you’d like to do. It can be anything from throwing sand in the eyes to disarming to whatever you can think of. If the d3 comes up a 3+ AND your attack hits, you succeed in the deed. The Judge will decide how it works mechanically. As you level up, the deed die gets bigger. d4, d5, d6, etc. the higher you roll on the deed die, the greater the effect. A 3 on the “sand in the eyes” may be -1 on attacks for the enemy for the next round, but a 6 might be a -4 on attacks. Either way you slice it, the deed die gets added to the to-hit role. Kind of in place of a THAC0 increase.
It allows the Warrior to do cool stuff all the time and feel more like a pulp sword and sorcery badass.
The only 3E I see in DCC is the saving throws and the unified d20 mechanic. None of the mechanical bloat.
@@AaronthePedantic Good point. The mechanic I like.
My impression of DCC dates back to being a guest on the Spellburn podcast and running through a short encounter with the cast. Just eft a bad taste in my mouth. However, I'm willing to look at it again because one reviewer mentioned my trigger word for the game: "GONZO." I love gonzo games, being a Gamma World/Mutant Future player/GM from way back.
@@GlenHallstrom Mutant Crawl Classics is absolutely Gamma World , just using the DCC ruleset.
It's really not that much like 3.x at all. They changed so much stuff it is its own game.
@@GlenHallstrom maybe check out Mutant Crawl Classics
DCC is the best system hands down. It’s all I run.
I'm in the middle of converting my 5E group over to DCC, running our first funnel tonight
Good luck! I’d say just make sure they know the best parts are after the funnel. Some will find it refreshing to be torn to shreds, others will grumble in frustration as they don’t come to fantasy to be expendable peasantry. 🤣
TOO CLOSE! Srlsy dude, I'm pretty sure I can see you at the cellular level at this camera angle. It's really disturbing. I'm afraid you're trying to come through the screen and make out with me.
They should advertise the DCC Reference Booklet right next to the core rulebook. Makes life so much easier
DCC is the only game I play currently and I'm good with that. My players love 0-level funnels, and frequently want to go back and do another. A few of my players have hit level 2 and it was a joyful event for them because they earned it through careful play and bold action!
Heck yeah!
Hey do you run games online or only in person? I work for a US Company remotely and i'm looking for a dcc table to join.
Glad seeing ya back at it ! DCC is so much fun!
That it is! Thanks, Des. 😁
veryh good
I still don't udnerstnad why people flog to pf2 over osr games maybe mot people enjoy drawing long combats and munshikinisem
I think it’s brand recognition. Everyone has heard of Pathfinder as the D&D alternative. Few have heard of DCC.
@@AaronthePedantic this explains why after 2 or more years they now all
Try to lern and paise it
You can't Spell burn to get spells back. You can Spell burn to boost the spells.
Are you sure about that? 🤔 Where would I have gotten that from? Maybe a house rule out Judge used.
Page 108. It’s in there. Kind of. You don’t get it back, but you can cast it again anyway
@@AaronthePedantic I'm sure, but house rules are awesome. I'm not saying it's a bad way to play, but the name of your channel is Aaron the Pedantic 😂. As long as you don't fumble a spell, you can keep casting it, even if it you fail. You only lose it on a fumble.
@@AaronthePedantic I have no idea how I missed that before, that's awesome
@@midnightgreen8319 That is incorrect. On p. 110 of the 8th printing of the DCC RPG rulebook, it states:
Each spell’s casting table will indicate “lost” or “not lost” in each result entry. A result of “lost” means your character cannot cast that spell again in that day. “Not lost” means the character retains the use of that spell. Generally, only wizard spells are lost when a casting fails.
Looking at the 1st level spell Animal Summoning on p.129 (8th printing) we see that on the spell check result of 1 it reads:
Lost, failure, and worse! Roll 1d6 modified by Luck: (0 or less) corruption + misfire + patron taint, (1-2) corruption, (3) patron taint (or corruption if no patron), (4+) misfire.
and then for a spell check result of 2-11 it reads:
Lost. Failure.
You regain your lost spells at a time decided upon by consensus between player and Judge. On p. 110 it states:
In general, spells are regained within a day of being lost. The exact trigger depends on the magic in question. White magic is regained at the next sunrise; black magic upon the moon crossing the sky in full; demon magic after a full eight hours of rest; divine magic after resting and praying to the cleric’s god; and so on, as agreed between player and judge based on the nature of the character’s magic.
There are no such designations as "white" magic or "black magic" in the spell descriptions. There are no official schools of magic. The classification system of magic is decided upon by the player and the Judge working together to create the flavor of the Wizard that the player is wishing to play. Now there is Ritual Magic, which is magic cast by Clerics, but the Cleric magic system works differently than it does for Wizards and Elves. Instead of spell loss, Clerics have Disapproval to deal with.
Back to Wizards and Elves, they can spellburn to cast a spell that has been lost for the day. On page 108 of the 8th printing of the DCC RPG rulebook, it states:
Regaining spells via spellburn: A wizard may use spellburn to cast spells he has lost for the day (through previous casting, for example). If a wizard expends a lost spell’s
level in ability score points, he can cast the spell as if he still had it. For example, a wizard could burn 2 points of ability scores to cast a level 2 spell he had lost for the day.
So, you might be playing with a house rule that says that spells are only lost on a fumble, and that's great if you and your Judge wish to play that way, but RAW, spells are lost on a spell check result of 1-11.
DCC!