I ended up checking it out but the amount of stolen art on it was pretty damn disappointing. A number of artists I follow on Twitter and Pixiv have their art on there uploaded by completely unrelated uploaders without their permission and a quick look around reddit shows that this has been going on about Displate for a long time now and they've basically taken no steps to prevent art theft from happening.
I still can't get over how HiFi Rush's audio-visual feedback effectively doubles as metronome - there's hi-hat sound when you dash on beat, a "hey" shout when you attack on beat, the "crowd" shouting when you keep S combo in a fight, etc. And even non-gameplay elements are synced - when Chai's running - he steps on the beat, when he's idle he snaps his fingers, when enemies move - it's on beat, when they're telegraphing / attacking / being staggered - their animation is also on beat.
Not only the enemies follow the beat depending on their action, their difficulty is also decided by how tight their timing is. SBR-001, basic orange guys, always walk around a little, pull the sword arm back, have the actual telegraph beat, THEN attack. KEM-0N0, the red beast halfway through, won't be as kind, you need to be looking at the one beat of warning it gives before it slashes. Don't even need to go into parrying, which, gosh, it's so good. The game's best decision was making it work on almost everything - you can't always count on positioning, but as long as you're on beat, you always have an out.
i love the fact i dont need to use the indicators to know if im on beat. the music is clear enough to follow as well as the environment's animation has such visual clarity that it feels diegetic
As a reminder, NOT ONLY RHYTM GAMES or hybrids can take lessons of this. A lot of games who use QTE frequently need to understand those kind of rythm elements, most notably the visual interface. They luckily have more leniance than regular decks due to being minigames instead of main game, but still need to be understood.
Heck, "sight reading capability" is probably an important consideration for any action/platformer/shooter game that expects players to respond quickly to challenges and get into a flow state.
Wait, did i said decks instead of games? Gosh that is so embarrassing... Anyways, why do I mention it? Simple, because I have played a lot of Mario RPG games, and the attacks and block there are just rhythm minigames. When it works it feels like a dance between life and death and a genuine sense of character progression as you master the QTE, but when it doesn't you get Sticker Star/Color Splash gameplay which is boring and bland.
There isn't a a single hybrid rhythm game that has good UI and UX. If any sort of UI is needed for the rhythm, then it will without fail not work and goes against the entire point of making it rhythm based. It only woks when the focus is entirely on the UI, not when you have to combine that with a shooter or hack-n-slash. Every single rhythm game like this is one you would potentially enjoy in spite of the clunky gameplay and bad UX/UI.
As a rhythm game fan, I will say this: if your game involves some form of scrolling notes, one of the most useful things you can add is an option to change the scroll speed. Increasing the scroll speed actually makes it easier to read harder and denser note charts, since your brain has effectively less information on the screen at any given time to work with. Giving more granular scroll speed options is even better, since each player has their own "sweet spot" at which their reflexes and pattern recognition are at their best.
most games have default lower speed for easy maps so new players aren't overwhelmed, but then quietly raise the speed it's so easy to overlook if you don't play that many rhythm games
This is actually what I hate in some of the Project Diva charts. The sudden shift in note speed is pretty jarring if it is your first time playing that chart. Looking at you Jitterbug.
Allowing the player to control the speed rather than just silently changing the speed is a better option in every way though. Guitar hero is another example of a rhythm game that silently changes the scroll speed as you move up in difficulty, though in it's case the changes are mitigated somewhat by the perspective applied to the note track.
It's especially helpful when you allow players to change a constant note speed instead of linking that speed to the song's BPM and letting the player multiply that speed. I end up doing a lot of math when picking songs in Dance Dance Revolution, and way too often I'll set the speed too high or low and lose my credit. Meanwhile, Pump It Up has a constant speed modifier that pretty much eliminates the chance of that happening, and I can focus on fine-tuning my note speed as I see fit. Beatmania IIDX has my favorite implementation of this feature- you can press the start button to change speed mid-song, adding a new layer of challenge to charts that change note speed mid-song! It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when a rhythm game not only lacks this option, but instead has an option to speed up or slow down the music itself. It's not the same thing at all, and subjectively I don't want to mess with how the music sounds.
As one of the composers who spend a lot of time creating music for their games, whether they are new or experienced, it is absolutely fantastic to see developers create something that players can easily enjoy with a nice UX. Thank you so much!
I wanna shoutout Theatrythm Final Bar Line for the absolutely astounding design they put on the stages. It would have been understandable if Lab Zero made some stages similar to each other because there are over 400 of them, but each one is a love letter to the song it belongs to, with so many having unique backgrounds and all of them having a carefully curated set of enemies that will make fans of the game beam when recognizing how they managed to re-enact moments for them with the very simple presentation. From stuff like how Crisis Core's "The Price of Freedom" has you battling an endless army of Shinra troopers on a desert, to how "A Long Fall - The Primals Version" from the Deluxe Edition has both the background and the chart itself reference the massively popular dance meme that the song spawned in social media, the sheer love put into the game elevates it into the tribute to the franchise's history it is meant to be.
What's impressive to me is for when the sub-series jumped off the 3DS meaning it didn't have a reliable touch screen anymore. The note types were basically tailor made for that but in both arcade machine & console controller form, they really made it work while still being intuitive with the ability to have more than one "input point" even letting the charts get more complex than before.
Honestly with how individualistic a lot of Rhythm game UX-design is you could probably do an entire episode of Good Design, Bad Design just about Rhythm games.
About beat sabre. I’ve done levels before on first tries after just kind of figuring out the ideal way boxes can be laid out. I call this “the trust”. The blocks are *usually* arranged so that each block is easily swiped where your sword is last used. When you swipe down on one block, you can almost be certain that the next block will need to be swiped up by that same sword, allowing for a more smooth, rhythmic dance that the game wants you to feel. So, “you can’t cut what you can’t see” isn’t a great way of saying it because it’s not that you NEED to see, you mostly have to *feel* at higher difficulties
There is a huge amount of design considerations in just about every rhythm game. A lot of custom charts in DDR for instance really try to take into account how a chart will be sight-read and how people will try and dance naturally to it, so a lot of charters try to either minimise or explicitly choreograph weird patterns like double-steps (hitting two different panels with the same foot consecutively)
and I'd counter that beat saber has a tough time communicating this entirely new version of feeling. It's not too different from piano chords: the idea is that you can intuitively figure out how to arrange your fingers from the sheet music, but that doesn't click for a lot of people. Same goes for beat saber tracks. It's part of why the 3D avatar videos are so important, they communicate the motions in a way the game itself is unable to.
I feel like they're looking mainly at older (2018) maps here, which have awful flow. At least judging from the visuals they chose. They're the maps with random double directionals and horizontals which are awful to play even for a good player (have just over 600 hours in the game myself and can't FC these types of maps, whilst being able to play significantly faster maps with better flow). I feel like custom maps are where the game really shines, whilst OST maps have always been mediocre at best and awful at worst
@@Amusia727 relying on custom maps means relying on an entirely emergent set of techniques to take form without anyone really recording and transcribing it to spread to others. There's quite a few downsides to using custom maps as the standard, even ignoring the duds.
@@benedict6962 I mean it seems to have worked, given Beat Games ended up employing custom mappers to create newer OST/ DLC maps. Helps that there's the competitive community and the ranked system for maps that they created (Scoresaber and the newer Beatleader), to curate maps. I don't think it would have worked otherwise
Not really a rhythm game guy (but I do enjoy like rhythm based mini games in stuff), but loved hifi rush. was super fun trying to get on the beat and always felt very satisfying when you did pull stuff off
Ayo this video is really well researched :D I'm happy to see a mainstream channel using terms like "sightreading" and referencing LIFE4, haha. (And thanks for featuring our game!)
Just beat Everhood last night. Very timely video. Rhythm games do something that few other genres can - that flow state that hits when the soundtrack is killer, the difficulty is cranking, and you just tap into a transcendent place of being. It can be very emotional, and a great climactic moment in a game.
i know exactly what you mean. Both euthanasia rolercoaster (the cube's final theme) and revenge (angry frog) managed to keep me playing even after i had died for tthe 30'th time in a row.
I'd like to make note of the QoL changes that are present in a lot of arcade rhythm games. Things like background dim and hitsounds help a lot with a game's readability, as well as having extensive options for note speed, and even hiding part of the playfield to help your brain parse the notes better. The latter options are mostly for people at higher level, but still are notable in how they help with a game being more readable.
oh yeah those unfamiliar with rhythm games might wonder why players leave the hit sounds on but that extra bit of sound to let you know "hey your input was read" is CRUCIAL. I especially love when rhythm games give you a selection of sounds to choose from in the settings so you can choose which one is just the right balance of "satisfying oomph vs overtaking the song"
Accessibility in Rhythm Hybrids is extremely important! My favorite character in Crypt of the Necrodancer is The Bard because he lets you ignore the rhythm/timing mechanic completely, so you don't have to stress
That's actually less intentionally for accessibility and more "this is where the roots of this genre came from". The Bard adds back in the turn and energy based gameplay to the grid, bringing the game back to its traditional roguelike roots. Though I ended up playing the Bard only myself, because Crypt of the Necrodancer doesn't work with a lot of music types, as it's entirely reliant on being able to read the beat of a song. Many songs might have a change of beat or be heavily reliant on off beats, unusual time signatures, or be dance music across numerous cultures, which definitely doesn't work for Crypt of the Necrodancer ironically because that type of music really heavily relies on the presence on uneven amounts of strong and weak beats.
Wait, the bard, which is a music based profession, is the character that can play off beat? Of all the charecter types I would expect to hear that for a game like this, the bard is not one of them.
I'm honestly very sad you didn't even mention mobile rythm games, there's a huge market in eastern rythm games that evolve the genre in impressive ways. The UI's continue to reinvent the way you use the touch screens in those games impresively, they even make the effort to make their regulat UI part of the story telling by shifting it around and changing the way you approach it, sometimes they go for a straight up mind blowing experience like the april's fools charts in arcaea, there's really a big discussion to have in this type of games and I'm sad there's no mainstream creators willing to cover them.
@@terracannon876 Rotaeno, while having a bit of a buy in price, utilises the gyroscope in your phone for some super unique thumbs gameplay, and personally is my favourite MRG. Cytus 2 has an incredibly good story, and is heavy with the shifting UI stuff mentioned above, and a large variety of musical styles to play, its kinda like osu!standard, but instead of each note having its own timing, the notes line up with a vertical scrolling bar. Noisz Starlight is a rhythm game bullet hell visual novel, and yes that is a combination of words that I just said. Exceedingly gay and a good time. RAVON, If you've ever heard of Jubeat, this is that but on a 3x5 grid instead of a 4x4 one. Having a lot of inputs is something that doesnt really work on PC, but is handled surprisingly well on touch screen. Paradigm: Reboot is a 4-directional RG thats very heavy on the story, and as someone in the genre for 7 or so years, the first time in a while I've been truly overwhelmed by the tutorial (its a fun experience, give it a go)
@@terracannon876 lanota, phigros, cytus 1 and 2, orzmic, ravon, muse dash and dynamix, and I'm sure there are a couple of newer that released recently or are about to release
Rhythm games can be fairly compact, so a lot of them are on mobile. Multiple anime or voice actor-based idol series have it (Utaprince, Ensemble Stars) but my favorite is Hypnosis Mic, which is constantly updating and improving the UI as well as timing. The rush with some of the songs is great because the timing and placement of the buttons on the screen works with the beat/melody of the song.
8:31 Shoutout to Craft Eggs rhythm games (Bang Dream, D4DJ, Project Sekai) for having speed adjuster allowing you to choose between faster notes with larger gap for more reaction heavy play and slower notes with smaller gap for speed reader (albeit the overall speed is still the same)
Most modern rhythm games do that, thankfully. I always play with faster notes cause I feel overwhelmed when playing on higher difficulties, too many fucking notes, the Persona Dancing games come to mind, they are much more manageable at higher speeds, even more so with the modifier that makes notes appear at the last second
There are very few rhythm games nowadays that don't allow for changing the approach rate for a chart, mostly theyre either poor UX or have a reason or technical limitation for it, e.g. the approach rate in jubeat can only be so slow because notes can't overlap. However sometimes the approach settings are implemted pretty jankily, looking at you DDR x-mod, where the setting is just a bpm multiplier of the song bpm instead of a set it and forget it speed selector...
I play D4DJ and it's great how many customization options there are for the highway. You can adjust the speed, width, length, note size, note style, and more. And if you're not into the swipe and scratch mechanics there's even an easier mode you can play. Ultimately the game isn't crazy complicated but it still takes practice to get good at it, which is part of the reason I enjoy it so much.
I was hoping to see some D4DJ shoutouts in the comments! It's a really fun game and has so many customization options. Really user friendly and filled with banger songs.
@@rocketlanterns it's also because the visual speed of a chart is actually factoted in as a part of a chart's difficulty so the scroll change option being a multiplier makes sense to the devs. Whether it's good form of difficulty or not is a completely different detail.
Kinda surprised to not see Musedash in here. The only rhythm game that made me stick around. Heck I'm now able to clean some of the highest difficulty sheets at 85%+ accuracy, while at first I wasn't even able to finish a easy sheet
i haven't played a rhythm game not named muse dash in a hot second, so it might just be how my brain interacts with the genre in general, but boy howdy can some charts make going for full combos feel like an exercise in not proving pavlov right
My guess is that Musedash is primarily or started out as a mobile game, and PeroPero focuses a bit more on the mobile version in the Eastern market, so for the West neither version gets enough publicity to be known. Also how some westerners aren't too keen mobile gaming over console/PC gaming and well...the times Musedash's art can get a bit explicit which can be an issue for some
@@granmastersword maybe, there used to be that joke with part time warrior rin about turning your device to make it a vertical rhythm game -I play vertically on my phone, please don't tell.-
As far as hybrids go, I've always been incredibly fond of the rhythm levels in Rayman Legends. Interacting with them AS a rhythm game is totally optional - you could turn the sound off on your TV and just play it as a normal platformer, and you'd be fine - but the gamefeel is transformed entirely if you time your inputs appropriately. It's honestly difficult to put into words just how satisfying it is to time each jump and slap to the beat of goblins singing "Black Betty," or a mariachi version of "Eye of the Tiger," and sail through the level in a few minutes of uninterrupted flow. I even liked that the higher-difficulty versions were "just" remixes which messed with the visual interface in various ways, precisely because it turned engaging with the rhythm aspect from fun to mandatory. With the screen glitching out or flipping around every few seconds, keeping to the beat becomes essential to succeeding as you no longer have the ordinary crutch of visual cues at all times. I know I wasn't the only player who walked away wishing Ubisoft would take a break from all the same-y open worlds and expand this concept to a full game.
Thanks so much for showing Guitaroo Man for a bit there, that is one of my favourite games and I feel it should be talked way more. It made me a Rhythm game fun back then. Completing Master Mode there felt so great, it is one of my proudest gaming achievements.
My favourite rhythm game Arcaea has a very visually pleasing UI, and is very friendly to sight read. The ‘arcs’ (sliders) are colour coded in red and blue and represent which hand you should hold them with. Many charts involve crossing over hands and the fact that you usually cannot transfer one hand to another on a single arc means sight reading harder charts would be impossible if they weren’t coloured.
Plus the health bar (in one of the kinds of rhythm games where you need to be above a certain threshold of hp at the end of a song) changes color based on how close you are to being able to clear. I think that's one of the more subtle but nice UI touches, you can just know "oh im close to the clear, just a little more" or "I can clear if I dont mess up now!" at any point in the song without having to take your attention too much away from the notes since you dont really need to look directly at it Its also nice that theres a character that can turn off the health bar entirely if the health bar distracts you in any way when you're going for score
It feels like every time I watch a video about rhythm games, I head down to the comments to mention Mad Rat Dead. I'm glad to see that it got some spotlight in this video!
the rhythm game section of Evoland 2 is truly one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had with a random rhythm minigame - helps that the songs are also top tier
@@Gnidel it's a real YMMV, I thought it was great, for others it severely undercuts probably the most dramatically successful moment of the plot with a silly mini game.
As someone who has played a lot of NSR, a lot of the more in-depth and fun rhythm elements are pushed back into the parry system, which, unfortunately, you’re never forced to brush up against to finish the game
it's a double edged sword. on one hand, general audiences can get into the game easier with a little treat for regular rhythm game players, but it also requires you to beat the boss beforehand before you can play the parry only version of the fight.
Probably not the most obscure rhythm game but I really enjoyed Rhythm Thief and the Emperor's Treasure. I like to think of it as have you ever wanted a professor Layton-esk story but in a rhythm game?
Yes! While short and maybe a bit repetitive, it's a game that understood what parts of it's inspiration to take and still maintain it's identity resulting in a game that is very charming with some effectively simple rhythm minigames that are very quick to get the hang on and complete yet are just difficult enough if you are persuing perfect scores. It is really sad it never got any sequel or port due to it's obscurity.
Hey, huge fan of Rhythm Thief here! It really is a shame that the community around it is so small; it's such a great game. It was in the SEGA logo in the opening credits of the Sonic movies, so maybe there's hope...
Very happy to see Gitaroo Man and Samba De Amigo here! Another rhythm game that I would be curious to know your take on is Space Channel 5. It's one of my favorite rhythm games! That one seems to differ in how it sets up the user interface, since it uses the people and aliens as visual cues instead of arrows!
i just recently tried elite beat agents and man, i'm obsessed it took me a few years to get it but now i know why people love osu and now im so glad ouendan exists i think that's probably one of the most unique types of gameplay in any rhythm game i've come across, using a stylus instead of "just press button" makes an insane amount of difference and develops really different skills (i've always been pretty good at timing button presses, but never quite got what was going on in osu charts until now)
Wanted to shout groove coaster (specifically wai wai party on Nintendo switch) for being a phenomenal rhythm game for people who struggle with sight reading in games like project diva or ddr! It's got some really phenomenal UI and is great if you wanna play rhythm games with Anime/Vocaloid music but are intimidated by some of the more intense games like Diva, Arcaea, and Lanota
Also if you are lucky and can find a Groove Coaster arcade machine at an arcade, it's awesome to experience. I am sad that the one place I encountered it was not in my hometown. An arcade had one and oh my god it's so much fun, the button they have for it is *very* satisfyingly clicky
9:39 as someone who regurarly sightreads expert+ (and expert++ sometimes): the way to play beat saber at high levels is to always expect the next note that you will hit will be in the oposite direction than the last one just hit a downwards red note? next red note will be an upwards red note, or a diagonal upwards red note it HEAVILY relies on flow, and that rule is only broken on really bad charting
I really like the way Kingdom Hearts Melody of Memories does its rhythm gameplay. Each button input is tied to a specific combat from the main KH games, making it feel like you're playing a KH combat game instead of just a rhythm game. X is attack, and all inputs are orange and appear on enemies. Triangle is for magic spells, and they're used for green inputs at magic crystals. Circle is for jumping, and it is used for specific arrow icons that appear on the track (blue for just jumps, red to avoid attacks, and green to hold circle and glide). Blue arrows are paired with blue attack icons, making you press Circle to jump and then X for an aerial attack. It's a great way of merging the styles of KH combat and typical rhythm games together, and makes clearing these rhythm levels more intuitive for KH fans who never played rhythm games.
Unfortunately, as someone who loves that game, it certainly has more than it's fair share of UX issues. One would just be a lack of options, such as background masking, scroll speeds, practice mode, etc. Two is that the way that you have to hit enemies coming at you now actual beat line can make it ready hard to read charts that have unconventional rhythms or change their rhythms up. And third, the boss battle UX is legitimately awful
I was hoping to see a call-out to Kingdom Hearts 3D and the Reality Shift minigame for Symphony of Sorcery, which has the worst rhythm UI I've ever seen. The rhythm line curves in 3D space and the camera follows inconsistently, which makes it almost impossible to figure out where the prompts are.
@@aidanklobuchar1798 I've had problems with some of the harder charts and there being so many enemies I can't see what's ahead (not sight reading friendly?) The path sometimes curving also made it hard to get the timing right I still love Melody of Memory though :) I also found the co-op mode really interesting with how the chart gets split between two players. I actually had an easier time playing one-player-two-controllers than with another person though, funny how that worked out
Splatoon 2 contains, inside the jukebox used to listen to the game's absolute banger of an OST, a small rythm game. Very small, as there are only 2 difficulty modes per track and 2 lines of notes, one with green notes linked to the shoulder triggers and one with pink notes linked to the normal buttons, with only 2 kinds of notes on each one : the simple one, that asks to press one of the linked inputs, and the double one, that requires to press one of the linked inputs on each side of the controller, as well as a variation requiring you to input either a simple or double note on both lines at once. Similar to a Taikou no Tatsujin in gameplay, but nowhere near the difficulty, as, even on hard mode, it only has a few hundred notes. The UI is really barebones, as outside of a sound ( depending on the input performed ) that plays when you press something and a vertical visual effect combined to a sound effect that indicates if you missed, hit or perfectly hit, not much is on the screen. The largest on-screen ( that is mostly dark ) elements are a display with lights that turn on and off with the song, a silhouette of a dancing inkling or jellyfish, and the borders flashing purple or gold of you have a good combo going. A fun minigame to pass the time, or to do something while listening to the games' best songs. Splatoon 1 also had one, that could be played in the lobby in-between matches, but I never played that game.
I have found a lot of enjoyment in SoundFall. It is a Action Adventure Rhythm Hybrid and it plays really well. I would primarily credit it towards it's environment. Everything moves to the beat, akin to Hi-Fi Rush, but it is still a very different type of game. It does have some disadvantages, some of the weapons use weird beat patterns, but overall it has been a game I find myself returning to quite often.
I would like to add Metal Hellsinger is one I think could be added here. Not only does it have the visual bar, but the environment pulses to the beat, and the music also has a steady beat to it
Not to mention the fact that the higher you keep your multiplier the more 'full' the soundtrack is as it adds more and more instruments to the track until finally reaching the vocals at max multiplier, and I think that's neat. You don't need to look at your multiplier to know where you are at, you can just listen to the music playing. Leaves it very satisfying to keep the vocals for a good chunk of song.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about scroll speed in this video. Scroll speed is one of those things that can make or break a good rhythm game, especially since it's so personal to each player. A newer player will find a fast scroll speed far too difficult since they don't have an instinctive feel for reading charts yet, but for more experienced players a slow scroll speed is basically impossible to read at higher difficulties. If you don't have an option to change the speed, the game will automatically alienate a subset of players. This might seem ultra specific, but I think it shows a good thing for rhythm game ui, and ui in general. A good ui should be customizable. Different people have different needs, different screen sizes, and different things they want to pay attention to. As you mentioned for Hi-Fi Rush, the beat indicator can help players who need it, but you can also turn it off to reduce screen clutter. Stuff like that I think should be more common in UI design.
Yay rhythm heaven made it. The game perfected rhythm UX by basically not having it/integrating it into the game, instead of the usual “every level is the same, but the note layout is different” instead making most games unique and mixing them together to test how well you memorized them.
I'm glad you mentioned Beat Saber blocking notes because one of the most frustrating things about that game for me is that the notes rotate/flip as they spawn in, so if you're a seasoned rhythm game player that is used to looking at where notes spawn from, it's extremely disorienting Worst part is there isn't even an option to turn this off!
Patapon is still my favourite series of rhythm-hybrid games. Something about commanding an army using drum beats just tickles my brain. I especially like the elements where the more in-rhythm you are, the more the music picks up, and the more the music picks up, the stronger your army gets. Play a few measures well enough, and the beat finally drops, making your army almost unstoppable. And of course, music slaps: th-cam.com/video/hHS-6cnxru0/w-d-xo.html Man, I wish something similar to it would come out.
As someone who's been doing various forms of rhythm gaming since the original Guitar Hero, one game I feel really nailed its UX was Rhythm Thief on the 3DS. The overall gameflow for those unfamiliar is basically "what if we took Professor Layton's story formula but replace puzzles with rhythm games" & I love it. Before a song starts, you get a ready screen that tells you what control method the song uses (some use buttons, some use stylus, & some even use the gyro) & 99% of the songs are very intuitive even if you don't read past which input method you need. That 1% being one very specific song where you're on a glider. It took me way too many tries to get that one but it's very much the exception. Also neat is that there is timing circles for the inputs in the more diagetic charts like the first song's dance number (your backup dancers are your cues), but once you understand the general flow you can turn that setting off to just go off the world/character cues. NOW GIVE US A SEQUEL SEGA! PLEASE!
I feel like it's worth mentioning, although this only really applies to regular rhythm games, not hybrids (to my knowledge) but once you get to a high enough level with rhythm games, you start running into songs, mods or entire games that *Deliberately Screw* with the UX in order to up the difficulty even further! To name a few examples, Stepmania has mods that make the notes invisible just before they're about to hit the judgement bar, or that changes their positions or speed on-screen, in D4DJ there's the disc notes which mess with the positions of all the other notes on the staff, and when there's held disc notes all the other notes stop, in various rhythm games the tempo will change mid-song triggering the notes to change speed which can throw you off, or in Taiko's case for example, the notes won't change speed at all, but when BPM changes happen the notes with the different tempo will just scroll at a different speed from the rest of the notes which can be real disorienting...
I'm glad you mentioned Project Diva! It's like a life time long series for me! Now a days project diva on console is a bit dull, I highly recommend Diva F, F2nd and X, skip future tone, not beginner friendly and artificially hard. Also, like a comment I have read, mobile rhythm games are a thing and it's my preferred way to play rhythm games with falling notes. Going back to Diva subject, I highly recommend Project Sekai if you want Diva on mobile, all songs are free to play, it has nice visuals and also interesting characters to meet.
Despite saying I'm not much for rhythm or music in general there's actually a lot of games of this style that I love, Rhythm Heaven, Everhood, NSR, Mad Rat Dead and Hi-fi Rush, I suppose thay also have the advante of haveing very catchy visual styles and stories.
Groove Coaster. A rhythm game series that IS a roller coaster. It’s probably one of my favorites in the genre because each song has its own track with supporting music video style graphics that the notes don’t interfere with.
I really love rhythm games, and I wish there were more of them! I'd love to play a new Rhythm Heaven, or a new Crypt of the Necromancer, I LOVED Cadence of Hyrule
I'm amazed that Metal: Hellsinger didn't get a shoutout in the Hybrids sections. It's one of my favorite games ever, it does all the good tips on Hybrid Games + uses composition and sound design to anchor the Rhythm. I fyou like Doom, Metal and/or rythim games, this game is a must to know.
Mentioned Mad Rat Dead, video liked I LOVE the styles of music in that game and the bobbing of all the characters to the beat is nice. Also, having to do normal before hard is superb since it means you know the stage before adding in the advanced half notes
I love how you call DDR a sight-readable game when a lot of its songs are infamous because it changes how fast the notes are seemingly at random. Edit: Also I feel like rhythm assist bars can be annoying because you need to look all the way down to see if you're doing it right and not at the more important part. What's worse is Mad Rat Dead where it's essential to see those, or you're not gonna see the BPM changes and breaks, meaning you have to juggle between the two and it gets overwhelming. ESPECIALLY in later stages and ESPECIALLY in Hard Mode.
@@luigifan4585 figured, but there are still those that do, even on lower difficulties of play. Like DDRMAX 2, the one he uses the most often, starts the list on a song with BPM changes in the US song list. Though at least those are more easily telegraphed... kinda.
As a long-time rhythm game player, I feel like one of the most important things for rhythm hybrids is visual or audio feedback. A solid hit sound, other elements in the background moving to the rhythm, etc. I really wanted to like No Straight Roads and Everhood (which are both independently great games), but with the lack of feedback or visual cues to help you predict the rhythm they just don’t feel as satisfying to play as a something like Hi-Fi Rush which has that visual feedback. I’m so used to sight-reading in pure rhythm games that it just doesn’t feel right to not have some form of feedback.
I'd want to mention the Patapon series for the PSP (and remastered for PS4), and especially Patapon 2, the one I've played. The Patapon series is a Rhythm-RTS hybrid where you are the Almighty who beats four drums to lead his Patapon army. The game is very much lowkey aimed towards beginners for two reasons. The first comes in the fact that it always has the same visual guide... but the bigger reason is the fact the game ONLY makes you play to a regular 4/4ths rhythm, save one certain series of inputs. (I'm looking at you, Song of Miracles. I still hate your DON-DODON-DODON pattern.) The mere fact that every single song you hear and every single "song" (4-beat button input) you play is always played in a straight 4/4ths rhythm makes it beginner-friendly. Sure, no calibration, but the game's meant to be played on the PSP's fixed 30fps screen. No need to worry. The mere fact that it's a 4/4ths rhythm and none else really helps players just zone out rhythmically, playing the beat just by pure nature with or without any intrinsic help (such as internal counting or bobbing your head to the beat) feels natural and lets the player focus on the action. The visual guide for the music is also pretty reactive: normally you'd see it as a white rectangle around the borders of the screen flashing to the beat. Play a 4-beat input, and the next three beats the line will be a dark color telling you to wait for your army to execute your command, with the fourth one flashing to tell you to ready up for the next input. If you play well and enter FEVER, the line would be a triple-line rectangle flashing rainbow when you input. (But well, lose Fever and you're back to normal.) Even the input reactions help you. Let's take for example the PATA Drum, bound to the Square button. Be on good timing and you'll hear it go "PA-TA." Be way off, and it'll sound so off it might hurt your ears as much as it does to your Patapons. Be on PERFECT timing? It goes "PA-TATA" and rolls off the beat so well you want to keep the perfect chain of inputs going. Even the other drum sounds for the other button inputs also change depending if it's a miss, good, or perfect, and encourages players to stay on the perfect rhythm. (Even the visuals are reactive: the inputs cut into the screen on a miss, but a good hit will give them small pop-out animations. Perfect hits will make them slightly larger and pop out even more with some simple extra flair.) Even the action as you engage in combat is also bound to the rhythm: every command you make will always take four beats to execute (and the chant your Patapons sing as they do also lasts the same), and the wind-ups for each boss's attack are telegraphed four beats before it comes out! This choice in using a simple beat and making it the cornerstone of the game is an intelligent way to remove the difficulty dissonance stemming from prompts and making the game friendly to newcomers yet still challenging to veterans. And if you are a veteran who wants a challenge or a newcomer who's afraid they'll screw every input over, there's also difficulties to choose from: Easy for the scared newcomers, making timing windows more lenient, and Hard for those who want to make more effort to reap the benefits of perfect measures you'd normally get in one measure three. (Even I, someone who had played this game twice over and player a lot more other rhythm games, still _cannot_ always hit perfect measures. More often than not, I always get three perfects and a good. My longest streak of perfect measures in Normal difficulty was about a dozen beats if I remember right.)
Not sure if just dance counts as a rythem game but I had a ton of fun with it growing up. Generally the dances were easy to follow and there is a future cast in the corner to help you know whats coming up next.
I learned the hard way about older rhythm games' lack of calibration options when I tried to emulate PS2 Taiko with my Rock Band drum kit. My choice of controller worked perfectly fine, but the lag - due to both my display and the emulation - made the experience unsalvageable. I never realized just how ahead of the curve the first Guitar Hero game was for including lag options way back when.
I'm not much for Rhythm games, but there's two I've played that I have really enjoyed. I think just about everyone knows about Cadence of Hyrule by now, but the other game is Patapon. I presume Patapon is decidedly less well-known and it's another hybrid game. In Patapon (Playstation systems), you lead an army of little cartoon eyeball... things... across a 2D plane by giving them commands to the rhythm via a button sequence. Every command is 4 button inputs. You press the buttons across 4 beats, then wait the next 4 beats as the Patapon march, attack, defend, jump, etc. according to the button sequence. Aside from the beat itself, the game will signal the rhythm by lightly flashing the edges of the screen to match the rhythm. In-universe, each button is represented via a drum and so you'll hear a taiko drum being played as you press the buttons. Each drum is matched by a colour and a short phrase the Patapon will shout, too. Pata, Pon, Chaka, Don, for square, circle, triangle and X respectively. For example, you give them a march command with "Pata Pata Pata Pon", or Square, Square, Square, Circle. And if you keep it up without dropping the rhythm, you build a combo, where the music intensifies and the Patapon will fight more effectively. It's very cute (with the occasional dark undertone...), very charming, very fun and fairly easy to follow, despite the amount of eyeballs moving around on screen at times. If I understand roughly how we evaluate UX quality, I think Patapon does pretty great. It's not a particularly fast game and the tempo is always roughly the same, I think. The technical barrier isn't especially high and the commands are introduced fairly slowly, nor are they particularly numerous. It's got some RPG and strategy elements, though, which although that tickles my own fancy, is probably what's most likely to filter people out.
I was big on Melody's Escape for a while. They have solid algorythms for importing your own songs. Though I must admit Hatsune Miku's Project Diva/Project Mirai is literally my religion. I've imported and owned every game and only bought the relevant hardware after it came in the mail. My Arcade Diva Game Pad has been through a butt-load of hours over the years.
Was anyone else bobbing their head throughout this whole video? I don't play many rhythm games, but I had an unexpectedly good time Rhythm Thief & the Emperor's Treasure on the 3DS. A rhythm/puzzle game; very silly and charming. I enjoyed the free demo so much I bought it.
Glad to see No Straight Roads be featured in this video! I've never heard someone explain its problems so respectfully and concisely, and I really appreciate that. ^^ I look forward to seeing more content in the future!
One of my favorite rhythm games is Symphony on Steam. It's a rhythm/Shoot 'em up hybrid that uses songs in your library. My favorites is Audio Surf 2 and Melody's Escape. They also use the music in your library
I liked Frequency and Amplitude, the games where you build up each of your songs one track at a time. You do the usual rhythm-matching on one track, then once it's rolling you flip over to the next and start working on that, and once you've got them all you go back and refresh the tracks you did earlier that are starting to wear out. Of course this means the reward for doing well is actually getting to hear the song you chose in the first place. I may be partial to them because these games were how I heard about Freezepop.
i think the concept was really cool but the problem for me was some songs where the track layout almost forces you to jump three or four tracks across in a fraction of a second to keep your combo going which is almost impossible to do accurately when you can barely see that far to your side (in Amplitude at least) - unless you've already played the song enough to know the track layout and how to optimise for least. obviously that's the point of the game to rack up high scores but it makes for really unsatisfying sightreads at least to me it seems like it would've been a lot better if the player could somehow select which track they wanted to go to next rather than having to go one-by-one but there's only so much you can do with a PS2 controller
How'd you know I've been on a Theatrhythm kick for the past week? My favorite handling of sight reading is in Thumper. It's a fairly fast game with strange meters (each level number corresponding to its time signature) and visual cues can come very quickly, especially with how twisty the levels can be. So instead of purely visual cues/prior song knowledge, Thumper utilizes a sort of aural call-and-response, with different percussion representing different obstacles - and thus inputs. I find that this engages the musical part of my brain in a very satisfying way, and forces me to really confront its complex rhythms instead of just brute forcing trickier sections.
Something else worth mentioning is how rhythm games on the same console can have different lags. I have a Rock Band 3 guitar that can measure the lag on its own, and it works, for it has matched the lag perfectly. For all the other Rock Band games on my 360, I have to set them all manually, and they are all set at different lags. And no, it's not me because I played on an analog TV before without any problems. Not related to your video, on a personal note, my company has eliminated my daytime warehouse office job, and in exchange, I had to take a nighttime warehouse floor. Therefore, I will not be able to keep up with your content. I just wanted to thank you for you providing high-level video content, which is both educational and entertaining, to keep my mind inspired while doing brain-numbing data entry. Good job, and keep up the good work.
I've been getting into metal hellsinger and soundfall, and one of my favorite parts in those games is the tech to allow you to play your own songs for the levels to keep the replayability high. Also kind of surprised you didn't name-drop harmoknight since you used a good bit of footage from it.
5:40 guitar hero would have you strum according to the visual and then have you strum according to the audio and it would find out what settings you needed. After which it's still allowed you to go in and adjust them if it wasn't exactly right. That's from a series like three console generations ago, I don't understand how it's not a gold standard
Hello! Long time fan, first time caller here. If it's not too disrespectful, I'd like to make a suggestion for your future videos, based on something I've been struggling with in the past 4-5 videos. Please, write on screen the name of the games you're showing. Especially during the quick-fire sizzle reel sections. In this video alone, there were 19 games I didn't know anything about; name, platform, year. 7 of them before the ad break, for example. You ended up saying the name of 7 of them throughout the video, so there are 12 games that are still unknown to me. Love your videos; they are very entertaining and informative. Maybe this suggestion (or a variation of it) can make them even better and more inclusive. It can be of great value particularly to non-native speakers - like me. Thanks! And sorry if this kind of suggestion is off-limits.
one of my most interesting experiences has been following Spin Rhythm XD as it's been in early access. the mechanics have been there from the start, but I've gotten to really see how the UI changes over time as they figure out what they want from it (also it's really good and has great songs, and everybody should go play it)
The rhythm minigame at the end of class trials in Danganronpa V3 is so much fun and so enjoyable and so pleasing to play. The tempo ups actually feel like youre progressing and pressing the buttons in time is so smooth and feels really good and even if you play the same one over and over again i never get bored of it
Was not expecting the Mad Maestro mention at all! That was my very first rhythm game. and tbh the button sensitivity mechanic was pretty tricky for me to get down at first. And probably also led me to pressing the buttons on my ps2 controller harder for other games when I wanted an attack to be stronger.
For me, I always end up thinking of Audiosurf when it comes to rythm games. It was always good at the sight reading thing given just how far you can see ahead.
Whoa, Before the Echo brings me back. Back to when it was called Sequence, before it had to change its name for legal reasons. (there was already a piece of software called Sequence) Also, regarding BPM, there's another rhythm hybrid FPS out there, going by the name of Metal: Hellsinger.
I didn't expect Before the Echo to be mentioned! It has a special place in my heart It was my first real rhythm game and I played it the summer before senior year of high school, which was a great summer. Also the music slaps.
One of the games that I least expected to try incorporating some rhythm elements is Sky: Children of the Light. Not a central mechanic for an exploration-based MMO collectathon, but still worth talking about imo. Basically, you can unlock the ability to play different kinds of instruments in-game and unlock sheet music, which is basically rhythm game charts for your instruments. The way you play them is kind of similar to other rhythm games like Jubeat or Pulsus, but every button corresponds to a different pitch that the instrument can play. Only problem is, the approach rate for hit indicators is so slow that it often becomes hard to tell which note you have to hit next and when you have to hit it, with so many indicators appearing on the screen at once. And with no way to change this approach rate, I've pretty much ended up avoiding sheet music altogether...
A cool thing thumper does is give each element a unique sound that will always play 4 beats before you have to react. Because of that, after a few levels you start to get really good at sight reading, and it feels like you can predict what's coming up even if you can't see it. The coolest part is that, at least for me, i wasn't even doing this intentionally. My brain just started noticing the corrlation and my muscle mental kicked in.
I tried to play Crypt but while I loved it as a rhythm game, my forever losing battle of trying and failing to like roguelikes drove me away after a while. Been absolutely loving Soundfall though. And Project Diva F2nd is in my top 5 fav games of all time and has been since it came out.
the rhythm heaven fever one is just a rhythm test, like in every other one in the series. i'm pretty sure it doesn't calibrate the game's inputs. plus, the rhythm test itself wouldn't make much sense as a calibration, since it tells you to "try pressing early/late" if you get anything early/late. a calibration wouldn't tell you to do that, since how early/late your inputs are wouldn't matter, it would just adjust. as well as the fact that the part where you have to count to the beat in silence, also wouldn't make sense as a calibration, since it intentionally makes it harder to press the button on the beat by silencing the beeps partway through. plus, you can be as consistently early or late as you want in the rhythm test, and it won't affect the gameplay at all. (i just tested this just a bit ago to make sure.)
I got my boyfriend to play Theatrhythm final bar line with me and he went back to play from the original on the 3DS and complained about the readibily of the swipe yellow notes and it's true, square enix has changed their design 3 times, before they were a white arrow inside a yellow circle (horrible idea), now they are a light yellow bordered white arrow sticking out of a dark gold circle, which reads a lot better. Rhythm games live and die by their UI, I couldn't play VOEZ because it moves the UI so much around that I can't guess where to click the notes. Something similar with dynamix, with having to read notes on your right left and bottom, or Orzmic making you read top to bottom for the most chart and then swapping bottom to top for a gimmick, I love the creativity but you need to memorize those gimmicks and it feels bad
I play a lot of rhythm hybrid games that use a visual assist and they are always nice for calibrating or recalibrating yourself to the beat of the level or game. After a while of playing, you don't have to look at it and can just groove. I wanna give special attention to Bullets Per Minute for using the reticle as a visual assist so you always get a sense of when to be doing your actions as you aim.
If you have a decent phone, pick up any odd rhythm game. I can say Arcaea has never given me a lag spike. If you can find an arcade, rhythm games don't have lag spikes there either.
I came to the video to see the Doc talk about Theatrhythm: Final Bar Line, and I came to the comments to note that he didn't do that. TFBL is a masterpiece, not only because of the transcendent music from the Final Fantasy series, but also because of the solid rhythmic gameplay, which would have all fallen on its face had its UI not been up to snuff. The game is impressive in quality and quantity, and as one of the most recent entries in the genre to be released, it seems like a natural time to discuss it now.
You should check out Overpass. As a rhythm game it’s a little funky. The the notes are very small and obscure and hard to read, but it still works somehow. It’s also notable that it’s one of the few chart rhythm games I’ve seen where the notes are on the top of the screen instead of the bottom.
Rhythm games with custom beat map support should have a way of automatically showing difficulty. Beat Saber has the problem of only having five fixed difficulties so most custom songs are labeled "Expert+" but their actual difficulty varies wildly. Osu's star system is a good example of this done right, you know roughly how hard a level is just by comparing stars
In standard mode, star rating is relatively well done, in other game modes though it's a crapshoot. For example in mania, there are 3* charts that play more like a low 5*, and on the other extreme I've nearly S'd a 12* (9* + DT) chart that was hideously overrated due to it's use of short LNs, OD0 and low HP rating, while there are many 6* maps that I have no hope in hell of surviving. Similarly, Taiko's star rating seems somewhat bad, although I don't play Taiko so I can't comment too much on it.
This is true. The star rating system used in Scoresaber/ Beat Leader ranked maps (totally not taken from Osu) achieves what you're asking for, although it does have weighting issues and only applies to curated maps. You can usually get a rough idea of map difficulty by looking at BPM, NPS and top scores but that's really an experience thing
One issue I have with a lot of pure rhythm games is that they usually have actual character animations covering most of the screen, but they exist solely for the benefit of onlookers, since the player has to stay focused on the scrolling pattern of input prompts. You know how some games like _Dead Space_ integrate the health meter and such into the character model? I'd like to see some rhythm games start to take a similar approach to their input prompts. Where the characters singing, dancing, or kicking ass to the beat _are_ what you need to keep an eye on to know what to do next.
Okay I actually gotta defend No Straight Roads on this one. To me, the player not having to sync up never felt like "poor gameplay design", but instead felt like a deliberate choice to fit the themes of the game's narrative. Think about the story premise; these two are rebelling against a highly unified, controlled one-genre system by utterly rejecting said genre. They are, quite literally, playing to a different beat from everything around them.
Not the oracle of ages one😂 I hate that rhythm mini game so much. I never best my physical copy of OoA because of that. Had to save state my way through it
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
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I ended up checking it out but the amount of stolen art on it was pretty damn disappointing. A number of artists I follow on Twitter and Pixiv have their art on there uploaded by completely unrelated uploaders without their permission and a quick look around reddit shows that this has been going on about Displate for a long time now and they've basically taken no steps to prevent art theft from happening.
We need to talk,, you somehow managed to skip Trombone Champ in the video
I still can't get over how HiFi Rush's audio-visual feedback effectively doubles as metronome - there's hi-hat sound when you dash on beat, a "hey" shout when you attack on beat, the "crowd" shouting when you keep S combo in a fight, etc. And even non-gameplay elements are synced - when Chai's running - he steps on the beat, when he's idle he snaps his fingers, when enemies move - it's on beat, when they're telegraphing / attacking / being staggered - their animation is also on beat.
Even the cutscenes are on beat. The game is so satisfying to look at, and listen at!
Not only the enemies follow the beat depending on their action, their difficulty is also decided by how tight their timing is. SBR-001, basic orange guys, always walk around a little, pull the sword arm back, have the actual telegraph beat, THEN attack. KEM-0N0, the red beast halfway through, won't be as kind, you need to be looking at the one beat of warning it gives before it slashes.
Don't even need to go into parrying, which, gosh, it's so good. The game's best decision was making it work on almost everything - you can't always count on positioning, but as long as you're on beat, you always have an out.
i love the fact i dont need to use the indicators to know if im on beat. the music is clear enough to follow as well as the environment's animation has such visual clarity that it feels diegetic
They really set a new standard for rhythm action games, and id argue for all rhythm hybrid games, with HiFi Rush.
I’ve never gotten 100% on beat while having to focus so little it’s amazing
As a reminder, NOT ONLY RHYTM GAMES or hybrids can take lessons of this. A lot of games who use QTE frequently need to understand those kind of rythm elements, most notably the visual interface. They luckily have more leniance than regular decks due to being minigames instead of main game, but still need to be understood.
Heck, "sight reading capability" is probably an important consideration for any action/platformer/shooter game that expects players to respond quickly to challenges and get into a flow state.
Wait, did i said decks instead of games? Gosh that is so embarrassing... Anyways, why do I mention it? Simple, because I have played a lot of Mario RPG games, and the attacks and block there are just rhythm minigames. When it works it feels like a dance between life and death and a genuine sense of character progression as you master the QTE, but when it doesn't you get Sticker Star/Color Splash gameplay which is boring and bland.
There isn't a a single hybrid rhythm game that has good UI and UX. If any sort of UI is needed for the rhythm, then it will without fail not work and goes against the entire point of making it rhythm based.
It only woks when the focus is entirely on the UI, not when you have to combine that with a shooter or hack-n-slash. Every single rhythm game like this is one you would potentially enjoy in spite of the clunky gameplay and bad UX/UI.
Oh man, QTEs would be SO MUCH BETTER if they were treated as rythm mini games I swear
As a rhythm game fan, I will say this: if your game involves some form of scrolling notes, one of the most useful things you can add is an option to change the scroll speed. Increasing the scroll speed actually makes it easier to read harder and denser note charts, since your brain has effectively less information on the screen at any given time to work with. Giving more granular scroll speed options is even better, since each player has their own "sweet spot" at which their reflexes and pattern recognition are at their best.
most games have default lower speed for easy maps so new players aren't overwhelmed, but then quietly raise the speed
it's so easy to overlook if you don't play that many rhythm games
This is actually what I hate in some of the Project Diva charts. The sudden shift in note speed is pretty jarring if it is your first time playing that chart. Looking at you Jitterbug.
Allowing the player to control the speed rather than just silently changing the speed is a better option in every way though. Guitar hero is another example of a rhythm game that silently changes the scroll speed as you move up in difficulty, though in it's case the changes are mitigated somewhat by the perspective applied to the note track.
It's especially helpful when you allow players to change a constant note speed instead of linking that speed to the song's BPM and letting the player multiply that speed. I end up doing a lot of math when picking songs in Dance Dance Revolution, and way too often I'll set the speed too high or low and lose my credit. Meanwhile, Pump It Up has a constant speed modifier that pretty much eliminates the chance of that happening, and I can focus on fine-tuning my note speed as I see fit. Beatmania IIDX has my favorite implementation of this feature- you can press the start button to change speed mid-song, adding a new layer of challenge to charts that change note speed mid-song!
It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when a rhythm game not only lacks this option, but instead has an option to speed up or slow down the music itself. It's not the same thing at all, and subjectively I don't want to mess with how the music sounds.
Interesting how scrolling speed went from a 'cheat' (Hyperspeed in GH2 and 3) to something I'd consider more of an accessibility option now.
As one of the composers who spend a lot of time creating music for their games, whether they are new or experienced, it is absolutely fantastic to see developers create something that players can easily enjoy with a nice UX. Thank you so much!
Thank you so much for your music, Camellia
I can't imagine trying to chart something that fast.
Hello camellia
Oh my god its the legend himself
the man himself appears! it’s great seeing you interacting with the RG community again
I wanna shoutout Theatrythm Final Bar Line for the absolutely astounding design they put on the stages. It would have been understandable if Lab Zero made some stages similar to each other because there are over 400 of them, but each one is a love letter to the song it belongs to, with so many having unique backgrounds and all of them having a carefully curated set of enemies that will make fans of the game beam when recognizing how they managed to re-enact moments for them with the very simple presentation. From stuff like how Crisis Core's "The Price of Freedom" has you battling an endless army of Shinra troopers on a desert, to how "A Long Fall - The Primals Version" from the Deluxe Edition has both the background and the chart itself reference the massively popular dance meme that the song spawned in social media, the sheer love put into the game elevates it into the tribute to the franchise's history it is meant to be.
What's impressive to me is for when the sub-series jumped off the 3DS meaning it didn't have a reliable touch screen anymore. The note types were basically tailor made for that but in both arcade machine & console controller form, they really made it work while still being intuitive with the ability to have more than one "input point" even letting the charts get more complex than before.
Honestly with how individualistic a lot of Rhythm game UX-design is you could probably do an entire episode of Good Design, Bad Design just about Rhythm games.
Someone actually mentioned mad rat dead when talking about great rhythm hybrids. Thank you, more people need to play it.
I have the same reaction, but for No Straight Roads.
The gameplay is by far the worst part of that game. It's carried by the visuals, music and narrative. Like pretty much any other rhythm hybrid.
true
About beat sabre. I’ve done levels before on first tries after just kind of figuring out the ideal way boxes can be laid out. I call this “the trust”. The blocks are *usually* arranged so that each block is easily swiped where your sword is last used. When you swipe down on one block, you can almost be certain that the next block will need to be swiped up by that same sword, allowing for a more smooth, rhythmic dance that the game wants you to feel. So, “you can’t cut what you can’t see” isn’t a great way of saying it because it’s not that you NEED to see, you mostly have to *feel* at higher difficulties
There is a huge amount of design considerations in just about every rhythm game. A lot of custom charts in DDR for instance really try to take into account how a chart will be sight-read and how people will try and dance naturally to it, so a lot of charters try to either minimise or explicitly choreograph weird patterns like double-steps (hitting two different panels with the same foot consecutively)
and I'd counter that beat saber has a tough time communicating this entirely new version of feeling. It's not too different from piano chords: the idea is that you can intuitively figure out how to arrange your fingers from the sheet music, but that doesn't click for a lot of people. Same goes for beat saber tracks. It's part of why the 3D avatar videos are so important, they communicate the motions in a way the game itself is unable to.
I feel like they're looking mainly at older (2018) maps here, which have awful flow. At least judging from the visuals they chose. They're the maps with random double directionals and horizontals which are awful to play even for a good player (have just over 600 hours in the game myself and can't FC these types of maps, whilst being able to play significantly faster maps with better flow). I feel like custom maps are where the game really shines, whilst OST maps have always been mediocre at best and awful at worst
@@Amusia727 relying on custom maps means relying on an entirely emergent set of techniques to take form without anyone really recording and transcribing it to spread to others.
There's quite a few downsides to using custom maps as the standard, even ignoring the duds.
@@benedict6962 I mean it seems to have worked, given Beat Games ended up employing custom mappers to create newer OST/ DLC maps. Helps that there's the competitive community and the ranked system for maps that they created (Scoresaber and the newer Beatleader), to curate maps. I don't think it would have worked otherwise
Not really a rhythm game guy (but I do enjoy like rhythm based mini games in stuff), but loved hifi rush. was super fun trying to get on the beat and always felt very satisfying when you did pull stuff off
Ayo this video is really well researched :D
I'm happy to see a mainstream channel using terms like "sightreading" and referencing LIFE4, haha.
(And thanks for featuring our game!)
Just beat Everhood last night. Very timely video.
Rhythm games do something that few other genres can - that flow state that hits when the soundtrack is killer, the difficulty is cranking, and you just tap into a transcendent place of being. It can be very emotional, and a great climactic moment in a game.
i know exactly what you mean. Both euthanasia rolercoaster (the cube's final theme) and revenge (angry frog) managed to keep me playing even after i had died for tthe 30'th time in a row.
I'd like to make note of the QoL changes that are present in a lot of arcade rhythm games. Things like background dim and hitsounds help a lot with a game's readability, as well as having extensive options for note speed, and even hiding part of the playfield to help your brain parse the notes better. The latter options are mostly for people at higher level, but still are notable in how they help with a game being more readable.
oh yeah those unfamiliar with rhythm games might wonder why players leave the hit sounds on but that extra bit of sound to let you know "hey your input was read" is CRUCIAL. I especially love when rhythm games give you a selection of sounds to choose from in the settings so you can choose which one is just the right balance of "satisfying oomph vs overtaking the song"
Accessibility in Rhythm Hybrids is extremely important!
My favorite character in Crypt of the Necrodancer is The Bard because he lets you ignore the rhythm/timing mechanic completely, so you don't have to stress
That's actually less intentionally for accessibility and more "this is where the roots of this genre came from". The Bard adds back in the turn and energy based gameplay to the grid, bringing the game back to its traditional roguelike roots.
Though I ended up playing the Bard only myself, because Crypt of the Necrodancer doesn't work with a lot of music types, as it's entirely reliant on being able to read the beat of a song. Many songs might have a change of beat or be heavily reliant on off beats, unusual time signatures, or be dance music across numerous cultures, which definitely doesn't work for Crypt of the Necrodancer ironically because that type of music really heavily relies on the presence on uneven amounts of strong and weak beats.
Wait, the bard, which is a music based profession, is the character that can play off beat? Of all the charecter types I would expect to hear that for a game like this, the bard is not one of them.
I'm honestly very sad you didn't even mention mobile rythm games, there's a huge market in eastern rythm games that evolve the genre in impressive ways. The UI's continue to reinvent the way you use the touch screens in those games impresively, they even make the effort to make their regulat UI part of the story telling by shifting it around and changing the way you approach it, sometimes they go for a straight up mind blowing experience like the april's fools charts in arcaea, there's really a big discussion to have in this type of games and I'm sad there's no mainstream creators willing to cover them.
What are some games that stand out in your mind, other than Arcaea?
@@terracannon876 Rotaeno, while having a bit of a buy in price, utilises the gyroscope in your phone for some super unique thumbs gameplay, and personally is my favourite MRG.
Cytus 2 has an incredibly good story, and is heavy with the shifting UI stuff mentioned above, and a large variety of musical styles to play, its kinda like osu!standard, but instead of each note having its own timing, the notes line up with a vertical scrolling bar.
Noisz Starlight is a rhythm game bullet hell visual novel, and yes that is a combination of words that I just said. Exceedingly gay and a good time.
RAVON, If you've ever heard of Jubeat, this is that but on a 3x5 grid instead of a 4x4 one. Having a lot of inputs is something that doesnt really work on PC, but is handled surprisingly well on touch screen.
Paradigm: Reboot is a 4-directional RG thats very heavy on the story, and as someone in the genre for 7 or so years, the first time in a while I've been truly overwhelmed by the tutorial (its a fun experience, give it a go)
@@terracannon876 lanota, phigros, cytus 1 and 2, orzmic, ravon, muse dash and dynamix, and I'm sure there are a couple of newer that released recently or are about to release
one mobile rhythm game that is painfully underrated is NOISZ Starlivht, it’s a bullet hell combined with a rhythm game and is soooooo fun
@@rocketlanterns rotaeno is very fun, I just wish it didn't gate so much content on story mode since it doesn't really have that good of a story imo
saddened you didn't mention the other one button Rhythm game Rhythm Doctor!
I'll always spread Rhythm Doctor love~
the devs have an _entire video_ dedicated to its design
Rhythm games can be fairly compact, so a lot of them are on mobile. Multiple anime or voice actor-based idol series have it (Utaprince, Ensemble Stars) but my favorite is Hypnosis Mic, which is constantly updating and improving the UI as well as timing. The rush with some of the songs is great because the timing and placement of the buttons on the screen works with the beat/melody of the song.
YOOOOO The LIFE4 shoutout! Never expected that on one of the best game design channels on TH-cam. Much appreciated!
-Tiza and the LIFE4 staff
Your site has successfully broken Mike's illusion that beating Max 300 meant he was ever any good at DDR lol
8:31 Shoutout to Craft Eggs rhythm games (Bang Dream, D4DJ, Project Sekai) for having speed adjuster allowing you to choose between faster notes with larger gap for more reaction heavy play and slower notes with smaller gap for speed reader (albeit the overall speed is still the same)
Most modern rhythm games do that, thankfully. I always play with faster notes cause I feel overwhelmed when playing on higher difficulties, too many fucking notes, the Persona Dancing games come to mind, they are much more manageable at higher speeds, even more so with the modifier that makes notes appear at the last second
There are very few rhythm games nowadays that don't allow for changing the approach rate for a chart, mostly theyre either poor UX or have a reason or technical limitation for it, e.g. the approach rate in jubeat can only be so slow because notes can't overlap.
However sometimes the approach settings are implemted pretty jankily, looking at you DDR x-mod, where the setting is just a bpm multiplier of the song bpm instead of a set it and forget it speed selector...
I play D4DJ and it's great how many customization options there are for the highway. You can adjust the speed, width, length, note size, note style, and more. And if you're not into the swipe and scratch mechanics there's even an easier mode you can play. Ultimately the game isn't crazy complicated but it still takes practice to get good at it, which is part of the reason I enjoy it so much.
I was hoping to see some D4DJ shoutouts in the comments! It's a really fun game and has so many customization options. Really user friendly and filled with banger songs.
@@rocketlanterns it's also because the visual speed of a chart is actually factoted in as a part of a chart's difficulty so the scroll change option being a multiplier makes sense to the devs. Whether it's good form of difficulty or not is a completely different detail.
Kinda surprised to not see Musedash in here. The only rhythm game that made me stick around. Heck I'm now able to clean some of the highest difficulty sheets at 85%+ accuracy, while at first I wasn't even able to finish a easy sheet
i haven't played a rhythm game not named muse dash in a hot second, so it might just be how my brain interacts with the genre in general, but boy howdy can some charts make going for full combos feel like an exercise in not proving pavlov right
My guess is that Musedash is primarily or started out as a mobile game, and PeroPero focuses a bit more on the mobile version in the Eastern market, so for the West neither version gets enough publicity to be known.
Also how some westerners aren't too keen mobile gaming over console/PC gaming and well...the times Musedash's art can get a bit explicit which can be an issue for some
@@granmastersword maybe, there used to be that joke with part time warrior rin about turning your device to make it a vertical rhythm game
-I play vertically on my phone, please don't tell.-
As far as hybrids go, I've always been incredibly fond of the rhythm levels in Rayman Legends. Interacting with them AS a rhythm game is totally optional - you could turn the sound off on your TV and just play it as a normal platformer, and you'd be fine - but the gamefeel is transformed entirely if you time your inputs appropriately. It's honestly difficult to put into words just how satisfying it is to time each jump and slap to the beat of goblins singing "Black Betty," or a mariachi version of "Eye of the Tiger," and sail through the level in a few minutes of uninterrupted flow.
I even liked that the higher-difficulty versions were "just" remixes which messed with the visual interface in various ways, precisely because it turned engaging with the rhythm aspect from fun to mandatory. With the screen glitching out or flipping around every few seconds, keeping to the beat becomes essential to succeeding as you no longer have the ordinary crutch of visual cues at all times.
I know I wasn't the only player who walked away wishing Ubisoft would take a break from all the same-y open worlds and expand this concept to a full game.
Thanks so much for showing Guitaroo Man for a bit there, that is one of my favourite games and I feel it should be talked way more. It made me a Rhythm game fun back then. Completing Master Mode there felt so great, it is one of my proudest gaming achievements.
My favourite rhythm game Arcaea has a very visually pleasing UI, and is very friendly to sight read. The ‘arcs’ (sliders) are colour coded in red and blue and represent which hand you should hold them with. Many charts involve crossing over hands and the fact that you usually cannot transfer one hand to another on a single arc means sight reading harder charts would be impossible if they weren’t coloured.
Plus the health bar (in one of the kinds of rhythm games where you need to be above a certain threshold of hp at the end of a song) changes color based on how close you are to being able to clear. I think that's one of the more subtle but nice UI touches, you can just know "oh im close to the clear, just a little more" or "I can clear if I dont mess up now!" at any point in the song without having to take your attention too much away from the notes since you dont really need to look directly at it
Its also nice that theres a character that can turn off the health bar entirely if the health bar distracts you in any way when you're going for score
It feels like every time I watch a video about rhythm games, I head down to the comments to mention Mad Rat Dead. I'm glad to see that it got some spotlight in this video!
the rhythm game section of Evoland 2 is truly one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had with a random rhythm minigame - helps that the songs are also top tier
So true
It's also a climatic story moment that ends with rock-off. Evoland 2 is a wild ride, I really recommend it.
Sadly there is no Evoland 3 :(
@@Gnidel it's a real YMMV, I thought it was great, for others it severely undercuts probably the most dramatically successful moment of the plot with a silly mini game.
As someone who has played a lot of NSR, a lot of the more in-depth and fun rhythm elements are pushed back into the parry system, which, unfortunately, you’re never forced to brush up against to finish the game
it's a double edged sword. on one hand, general audiences can get into the game easier with a little treat for regular rhythm game players, but it also requires you to beat the boss beforehand before you can play the parry only version of the fight.
When 808 is in a thumbnail, you know that the topic will get rhythm-based and filled with quality really quickly.
Or cat-based and filled with lovely floof!
Probably not the most obscure rhythm game but I really enjoyed Rhythm Thief and the Emperor's Treasure. I like to think of it as have you ever wanted a professor Layton-esk story but in a rhythm game?
Oh, good!! Someone else remembers that gem!!
Yes! While short and maybe a bit repetitive, it's a game that understood what parts of it's inspiration to take and still maintain it's identity resulting in a game that is very charming with some effectively simple rhythm minigames that are very quick to get the hang on and complete yet are just difficult enough if you are persuing perfect scores. It is really sad it never got any sequel or port due to it's obscurity.
Hey, huge fan of Rhythm Thief here! It really is a shame that the community around it is so small; it's such a great game. It was in the SEGA logo in the opening credits of the Sonic movies, so maybe there's hope...
@@bitter-unicorn I FORGOT THAT. Which is sad because I distinctly remember going "Holy shit that is Rhythm Thief!" When I saw them
@@bitter-unicorn Phantom R's theme is also an unlockable song for your homebase in Yakuza 7. WE KNOW YOU REMEMBER THE GAME EXISTS SEGA! BRING IT BACK!
Man, I forgot about Thumper. Couldn’t get past level 5 but it’s still a top tier game! Great music, great gameplay
loving the channel as now I've seen a few videos and I'm excited to binge your content
Very happy to see Gitaroo Man and Samba De Amigo here! Another rhythm game that I would be curious to know your take on is Space Channel 5. It's one of my favorite rhythm games! That one seems to differ in how it sets up the user interface, since it uses the people and aliens as visual cues instead of arrows!
i just recently tried elite beat agents and man, i'm obsessed
it took me a few years to get it but now i know why people love osu and now im so glad ouendan exists
i think that's probably one of the most unique types of gameplay in any rhythm game i've come across, using a stylus instead of "just press button" makes an insane amount of difference and develops really different skills (i've always been pretty good at timing button presses, but never quite got what was going on in osu charts until now)
Wanted to shout groove coaster (specifically wai wai party on Nintendo switch) for being a phenomenal rhythm game for people who struggle with sight reading in games like project diva or ddr! It's got some really phenomenal UI and is great if you wanna play rhythm games with Anime/Vocaloid music but are intimidated by some of the more intense games like Diva, Arcaea, and Lanota
Also if you are lucky and can find a Groove Coaster arcade machine at an arcade, it's awesome to experience. I am sad that the one place I encountered it was not in my hometown. An arcade had one and oh my god it's so much fun, the button they have for it is *very* satisfyingly clicky
9:39 as someone who regurarly sightreads expert+ (and expert++ sometimes):
the way to play beat saber at high levels is to always expect the next note that you will hit will be in the oposite direction than the last one
just hit a downwards red note? next red note will be an upwards red note, or a diagonal upwards red note
it HEAVILY relies on flow, and that rule is only broken on really bad charting
I really like the way Kingdom Hearts Melody of Memories does its rhythm gameplay. Each button input is tied to a specific combat from the main KH games, making it feel like you're playing a KH combat game instead of just a rhythm game. X is attack, and all inputs are orange and appear on enemies. Triangle is for magic spells, and they're used for green inputs at magic crystals. Circle is for jumping, and it is used for specific arrow icons that appear on the track (blue for just jumps, red to avoid attacks, and green to hold circle and glide). Blue arrows are paired with blue attack icons, making you press Circle to jump and then X for an aerial attack. It's a great way of merging the styles of KH combat and typical rhythm games together, and makes clearing these rhythm levels more intuitive for KH fans who never played rhythm games.
Unfortunately, as someone who loves that game, it certainly has more than it's fair share of UX issues.
One would just be a lack of options, such as background masking, scroll speeds, practice mode, etc.
Two is that the way that you have to hit enemies coming at you now actual beat line can make it ready hard to read charts that have unconventional rhythms or change their rhythms up.
And third, the boss battle UX is legitimately awful
I was hoping to see a call-out to Kingdom Hearts 3D and the Reality Shift minigame for Symphony of Sorcery, which has the worst rhythm UI I've ever seen. The rhythm line curves in 3D space and the camera follows inconsistently, which makes it almost impossible to figure out where the prompts are.
@@aidanklobuchar1798 I've had problems with some of the harder charts and there being so many enemies I can't see what's ahead (not sight reading friendly?) The path sometimes curving also made it hard to get the timing right
I still love Melody of Memory though :)
I also found the co-op mode really interesting with how the chart gets split between two players. I actually had an easier time playing one-player-two-controllers than with another person though, funny how that worked out
Everhood’s UX change halfway through is amazing.
Splatoon 2 contains, inside the jukebox used to listen to the game's absolute banger of an OST, a small rythm game.
Very small, as there are only 2 difficulty modes per track and 2 lines of notes, one with green notes linked to the shoulder triggers and one with pink notes linked to the normal buttons, with only 2 kinds of notes on each one : the simple one, that asks to press one of the linked inputs, and the double one, that requires to press one of the linked inputs on each side of the controller, as well as a variation requiring you to input either a simple or double note on both lines at once. Similar to a Taikou no Tatsujin in gameplay, but nowhere near the difficulty, as, even on hard mode, it only has a few hundred notes.
The UI is really barebones, as outside of a sound ( depending on the input performed ) that plays when you press something and a vertical visual effect combined to a sound effect that indicates if you missed, hit or perfectly hit, not much is on the screen. The largest on-screen ( that is mostly dark ) elements are a display with lights that turn on and off with the song, a silhouette of a dancing inkling or jellyfish, and the borders flashing purple or gold of you have a good combo going.
A fun minigame to pass the time, or to do something while listening to the games' best songs.
Splatoon 1 also had one, that could be played in the lobby in-between matches, but I never played that game.
I have found a lot of enjoyment in SoundFall. It is a Action Adventure Rhythm Hybrid and it plays really well. I would primarily credit it towards it's environment. Everything moves to the beat, akin to Hi-Fi Rush, but it is still a very different type of game. It does have some disadvantages, some of the weapons use weird beat patterns, but overall it has been a game I find myself returning to quite often.
Can't forget Rhythm Doctor, where its premise is the simplest thing ever and the UX constantly changing is what makes it difficult :P
Hi-Fi rush honestly got me back into rhythm games. Pulling off attacks that were perfectly in sync felt so good
I would like to add Metal Hellsinger is one I think could be added here. Not only does it have the visual bar, but the environment pulses to the beat, and the music also has a steady beat to it
Not to mention the fact that the higher you keep your multiplier the more 'full' the soundtrack is as it adds more and more instruments to the track until finally reaching the vocals at max multiplier, and I think that's neat. You don't need to look at your multiplier to know where you are at, you can just listen to the music playing. Leaves it very satisfying to keep the vocals for a good chunk of song.
Definitely a little shocked that there wasn't even a passing mention of Metal Hellsinger
I'm surprised you didn't talk about scroll speed in this video. Scroll speed is one of those things that can make or break a good rhythm game, especially since it's so personal to each player. A newer player will find a fast scroll speed far too difficult since they don't have an instinctive feel for reading charts yet, but for more experienced players a slow scroll speed is basically impossible to read at higher difficulties. If you don't have an option to change the speed, the game will automatically alienate a subset of players.
This might seem ultra specific, but I think it shows a good thing for rhythm game ui, and ui in general. A good ui should be customizable. Different people have different needs, different screen sizes, and different things they want to pay attention to. As you mentioned for Hi-Fi Rush, the beat indicator can help players who need it, but you can also turn it off to reduce screen clutter. Stuff like that I think should be more common in UI design.
Yay rhythm heaven made it. The game perfected rhythm UX by basically not having it/integrating it into the game, instead of the usual “every level is the same, but the note layout is different” instead making most games unique and mixing them together to test how well you memorized them.
I'm glad you mentioned Beat Saber blocking notes because one of the most frustrating things about that game for me is that the notes rotate/flip as they spawn in, so if you're a seasoned rhythm game player that is used to looking at where notes spawn from, it's extremely disorienting
Worst part is there isn't even an option to turn this off!
Patapon is still my favourite series of rhythm-hybrid games. Something about commanding an army using drum beats just tickles my brain.
I especially like the elements where the more in-rhythm you are, the more the music picks up, and the more the music picks up, the stronger your army gets. Play a few measures well enough, and the beat finally drops, making your army almost unstoppable.
And of course, music slaps: th-cam.com/video/hHS-6cnxru0/w-d-xo.html
Man, I wish something similar to it would come out.
As someone who's been doing various forms of rhythm gaming since the original Guitar Hero, one game I feel really nailed its UX was Rhythm Thief on the 3DS. The overall gameflow for those unfamiliar is basically "what if we took Professor Layton's story formula but replace puzzles with rhythm games" & I love it. Before a song starts, you get a ready screen that tells you what control method the song uses (some use buttons, some use stylus, & some even use the gyro) & 99% of the songs are very intuitive even if you don't read past which input method you need. That 1% being one very specific song where you're on a glider. It took me way too many tries to get that one but it's very much the exception. Also neat is that there is timing circles for the inputs in the more diagetic charts like the first song's dance number (your backup dancers are your cues), but once you understand the general flow you can turn that setting off to just go off the world/character cues. NOW GIVE US A SEQUEL SEGA! PLEASE!
I feel like it's worth mentioning, although this only really applies to regular rhythm games, not hybrids (to my knowledge) but once you get to a high enough level with rhythm games, you start running into songs, mods or entire games that *Deliberately Screw* with the UX in order to up the difficulty even further!
To name a few examples, Stepmania has mods that make the notes invisible just before they're about to hit the judgement bar, or that changes their positions or speed on-screen, in D4DJ there's the disc notes which mess with the positions of all the other notes on the staff, and when there's held disc notes all the other notes stop, in various rhythm games the tempo will change mid-song triggering the notes to change speed which can throw you off, or in Taiko's case for example, the notes won't change speed at all, but when BPM changes happen the notes with the different tempo will just scroll at a different speed from the rest of the notes which can be real disorienting...
I'm glad you mentioned Project Diva! It's like a life time long series for me! Now a days project diva on console is a bit dull, I highly recommend Diva F, F2nd and X, skip future tone, not beginner friendly and artificially hard. Also, like a comment I have read, mobile rhythm games are a thing and it's my preferred way to play rhythm games with falling notes. Going back to Diva subject, I highly recommend Project Sekai if you want Diva on mobile, all songs are free to play, it has nice visuals and also interesting characters to meet.
DVD-DDR has playing with your older brother with an unplugged controller energy
Despite saying I'm not much for rhythm or music in general there's actually a lot of games of this style that I love, Rhythm Heaven, Everhood, NSR, Mad Rat Dead and Hi-fi Rush, I suppose thay also have the advante of haveing very catchy visual styles and stories.
Groove Coaster. A rhythm game series that IS a roller coaster. It’s probably one of my favorites in the genre because each song has its own track with supporting music video style graphics that the notes don’t interfere with.
I really love rhythm games, and I wish there were more of them! I'd love to play a new Rhythm Heaven, or a new Crypt of the Necromancer, I LOVED Cadence of Hyrule
I'm amazed that Metal: Hellsinger didn't get a shoutout in the Hybrids sections. It's one of my favorite games ever, it does all the good tips on Hybrid Games + uses composition and sound design to anchor the Rhythm. I fyou like Doom, Metal and/or rythim games, this game is a must to know.
I've played so much rhythm heaven that I'll say that game's audio cues for combos in Hi-fi rush.
Mentioned Mad Rat Dead, video liked
I LOVE the styles of music in that game and the bobbing of all the characters to the beat is nice. Also, having to do normal before hard is superb since it means you know the stage before adding in the advanced half notes
I love how you call DDR a sight-readable game when a lot of its songs are infamous because it changes how fast the notes are seemingly at random.
Edit: Also I feel like rhythm assist bars can be annoying because you need to look all the way down to see if you're doing it right and not at the more important part.
What's worse is Mad Rat Dead where it's essential to see those, or you're not gonna see the BPM changes and breaks, meaning you have to juggle between the two and it gets overwhelming. ESPECIALLY in later stages and ESPECIALLY in Hard Mode.
That only really happens on songs that are known to be difficult, and this video wasn't directly talking about the highest level of play
@@luigifan4585 figured, but there are still those that do, even on lower difficulties of play.
Like DDRMAX 2, the one he uses the most often, starts the list on a song with BPM changes in the US song list. Though at least those are more easily telegraphed... kinda.
@@djoshawott2850 Something something x-mod is a mistake i guess?
As a long-time rhythm game player, I feel like one of the most important things for rhythm hybrids is visual or audio feedback. A solid hit sound, other elements in the background moving to the rhythm, etc. I really wanted to like No Straight Roads and Everhood (which are both independently great games), but with the lack of feedback or visual cues to help you predict the rhythm they just don’t feel as satisfying to play as a something like Hi-Fi Rush which has that visual feedback. I’m so used to sight-reading in pure rhythm games that it just doesn’t feel right to not have some form of feedback.
I'd want to mention the Patapon series for the PSP (and remastered for PS4), and especially Patapon 2, the one I've played.
The Patapon series is a Rhythm-RTS hybrid where you are the Almighty who beats four drums to lead his Patapon army.
The game is very much lowkey aimed towards beginners for two reasons. The first comes in the fact that it always has the same visual guide... but the bigger reason is the fact the game ONLY makes you play to a regular 4/4ths rhythm, save one certain series of inputs. (I'm looking at you, Song of Miracles. I still hate your DON-DODON-DODON pattern.)
The mere fact that every single song you hear and every single "song" (4-beat button input) you play is always played in a straight 4/4ths rhythm makes it beginner-friendly. Sure, no calibration, but the game's meant to be played on the PSP's fixed 30fps screen. No need to worry. The mere fact that it's a 4/4ths rhythm and none else really helps players just zone out rhythmically, playing the beat just by pure nature with or without any intrinsic help (such as internal counting or bobbing your head to the beat) feels natural and lets the player focus on the action.
The visual guide for the music is also pretty reactive: normally you'd see it as a white rectangle around the borders of the screen flashing to the beat. Play a 4-beat input, and the next three beats the line will be a dark color telling you to wait for your army to execute your command, with the fourth one flashing to tell you to ready up for the next input. If you play well and enter FEVER, the line would be a triple-line rectangle flashing rainbow when you input. (But well, lose Fever and you're back to normal.)
Even the input reactions help you. Let's take for example the PATA Drum, bound to the Square button. Be on good timing and you'll hear it go "PA-TA." Be way off, and it'll sound so off it might hurt your ears as much as it does to your Patapons. Be on PERFECT timing? It goes "PA-TATA" and rolls off the beat so well you want to keep the perfect chain of inputs going. Even the other drum sounds for the other button inputs also change depending if it's a miss, good, or perfect, and encourages players to stay on the perfect rhythm. (Even the visuals are reactive: the inputs cut into the screen on a miss, but a good hit will give them small pop-out animations. Perfect hits will make them slightly larger and pop out even more with some simple extra flair.)
Even the action as you engage in combat is also bound to the rhythm: every command you make will always take four beats to execute (and the chant your Patapons sing as they do also lasts the same), and the wind-ups for each boss's attack are telegraphed four beats before it comes out!
This choice in using a simple beat and making it the cornerstone of the game is an intelligent way to remove the difficulty dissonance stemming from prompts and making the game friendly to newcomers yet still challenging to veterans. And if you are a veteran who wants a challenge or a newcomer who's afraid they'll screw every input over, there's also difficulties to choose from: Easy for the scared newcomers, making timing windows more lenient, and Hard for those who want to make more effort to reap the benefits of perfect measures you'd normally get in one measure three. (Even I, someone who had played this game twice over and player a lot more other rhythm games, still _cannot_ always hit perfect measures. More often than not, I always get three perfects and a good. My longest streak of perfect measures in Normal difficulty was about a dozen beats if I remember right.)
Not sure if just dance counts as a rythem game but I had a ton of fun with it growing up. Generally the dances were easy to follow and there is a future cast in the corner to help you know whats coming up next.
Ive actually been working on a prototype for a topdown shooter where everything has to sync to music. Definetally wasnt expecting this but perfect!
I learned the hard way about older rhythm games' lack of calibration options when I tried to emulate PS2 Taiko with my Rock Band drum kit. My choice of controller worked perfectly fine, but the lag - due to both my display and the emulation - made the experience unsalvageable. I never realized just how ahead of the curve the first Guitar Hero game was for including lag options way back when.
I'm not much for Rhythm games, but there's two I've played that I have really enjoyed. I think just about everyone knows about Cadence of Hyrule by now, but the other game is Patapon. I presume Patapon is decidedly less well-known and it's another hybrid game.
In Patapon (Playstation systems), you lead an army of little cartoon eyeball... things... across a 2D plane by giving them commands to the rhythm via a button sequence. Every command is 4 button inputs. You press the buttons across 4 beats, then wait the next 4 beats as the Patapon march, attack, defend, jump, etc. according to the button sequence.
Aside from the beat itself, the game will signal the rhythm by lightly flashing the edges of the screen to match the rhythm. In-universe, each button is represented via a drum and so you'll hear a taiko drum being played as you press the buttons. Each drum is matched by a colour and a short phrase the Patapon will shout, too. Pata, Pon, Chaka, Don, for square, circle, triangle and X respectively. For example, you give them a march command with "Pata Pata Pata Pon", or Square, Square, Square, Circle. And if you keep it up without dropping the rhythm, you build a combo, where the music intensifies and the Patapon will fight more effectively.
It's very cute (with the occasional dark undertone...), very charming, very fun and fairly easy to follow, despite the amount of eyeballs moving around on screen at times. If I understand roughly how we evaluate UX quality, I think Patapon does pretty great.
It's not a particularly fast game and the tempo is always roughly the same, I think. The technical barrier isn't especially high and the commands are introduced fairly slowly, nor are they particularly numerous. It's got some RPG and strategy elements, though, which although that tickles my own fancy, is probably what's most likely to filter people out.
More people need to know about Patapon.
I was big on Melody's Escape for a while. They have solid algorythms for importing your own songs.
Though I must admit Hatsune Miku's Project Diva/Project Mirai is literally my religion. I've imported and owned every game and only bought the relevant hardware after it came in the mail. My Arcade Diva Game Pad has been through a butt-load of hours over the years.
Have you tried the OG of music importing, Audio Surf? First one not the second.
Was anyone else bobbing their head throughout this whole video?
I don't play many rhythm games, but I had an unexpectedly good time Rhythm Thief & the Emperor's Treasure on the 3DS. A rhythm/puzzle game; very silly and charming. I enjoyed the free demo so much I bought it.
Appreciate you mentioning LIFE4! I'm the founder of it and it's flattering to see it mentioned on a channel as impressive as this. Great video
Life4 is amazing and along with the KK Clue pad restoration videos it rekindled Mike's DDR interest that had last been spotted at DDRFreak circa 2005.
Underrated channel tbh. Should be at 1 m subs. Just solid visuals and presentation style.
Glad to see No Straight Roads be featured in this video! I've never heard someone explain its problems so respectfully and concisely, and I really appreciate that. ^^ I look forward to seeing more content in the future!
NSR really feels like a prototype of Hi-Fi Rush to me.
One of my favorite rhythm games is Symphony on Steam. It's a rhythm/Shoot 'em up hybrid that uses songs in your library. My favorites is Audio Surf 2 and Melody's Escape. They also use the music in your library
I liked Frequency and Amplitude, the games where you build up each of your songs one track at a time. You do the usual rhythm-matching on one track, then once it's rolling you flip over to the next and start working on that, and once you've got them all you go back and refresh the tracks you did earlier that are starting to wear out. Of course this means the reward for doing well is actually getting to hear the song you chose in the first place.
I may be partial to them because these games were how I heard about Freezepop.
i think the concept was really cool but the problem for me was some songs where the track layout almost forces you to jump three or four tracks across in a fraction of a second to keep your combo going which is almost impossible to do accurately when you can barely see that far to your side (in Amplitude at least) - unless you've already played the song enough to know the track layout and how to optimise for least. obviously that's the point of the game to rack up high scores but it makes for really unsatisfying sightreads
at least to me it seems like it would've been a lot better if the player could somehow select which track they wanted to go to next rather than having to go one-by-one but there's only so much you can do with a PS2 controller
How'd you know I've been on a Theatrhythm kick for the past week?
My favorite handling of sight reading is in Thumper. It's a fairly fast game with strange meters (each level number corresponding to its time signature) and visual cues can come very quickly, especially with how twisty the levels can be. So instead of purely visual cues/prior song knowledge, Thumper utilizes a sort of aural call-and-response, with different percussion representing different obstacles - and thus inputs. I find that this engages the musical part of my brain in a very satisfying way, and forces me to really confront its complex rhythms instead of just brute forcing trickier sections.
Something else worth mentioning is how rhythm games on the same console can have different lags. I have a Rock Band 3 guitar that can measure the lag on its own, and it works, for it has matched the lag perfectly. For all the other Rock Band games on my 360, I have to set them all manually, and they are all set at different lags. And no, it's not me because I played on an analog TV before without any problems.
Not related to your video, on a personal note, my company has eliminated my daytime warehouse office job, and in exchange, I had to take a nighttime warehouse floor. Therefore, I will not be able to keep up with your content. I just wanted to thank you for you providing high-level video content, which is both educational and entertaining, to keep my mind inspired while doing brain-numbing data entry. Good job, and keep up the good work.
I've been getting into metal hellsinger and soundfall, and one of my favorite parts in those games is the tech to allow you to play your own songs for the levels to keep the replayability high. Also kind of surprised you didn't name-drop harmoknight since you used a good bit of footage from it.
5:40 guitar hero would have you strum according to the visual and then have you strum according to the audio and it would find out what settings you needed. After which it's still allowed you to go in and adjust them if it wasn't exactly right. That's from a series like three console generations ago, I don't understand how it's not a gold standard
This video has been quite helpful for me as a game dev trying to figure out how to make a rhythm hybrid game. thanks!
Hello! Long time fan, first time caller here.
If it's not too disrespectful, I'd like to make a suggestion for your future videos, based on something I've been struggling with in the past 4-5 videos.
Please, write on screen the name of the games you're showing. Especially during the quick-fire sizzle reel sections. In this video alone, there were 19 games I didn't know anything about; name, platform, year. 7 of them before the ad break, for example.
You ended up saying the name of 7 of them throughout the video, so there are 12 games that are still unknown to me.
Love your videos; they are very entertaining and informative. Maybe this suggestion (or a variation of it) can make them even better and more inclusive. It can be of great value particularly to non-native speakers - like me.
Thanks! And sorry if this kind of suggestion is off-limits.
one of my most interesting experiences has been following Spin Rhythm XD as it's been in early access. the mechanics have been there from the start, but I've gotten to really see how the UI changes over time as they figure out what they want from it
(also it's really good and has great songs, and everybody should go play it)
I had fun with the rhythm game mode in Ring Fit Adventure. It always felt like a post-workout celebration.
The rhythm minigame at the end of class trials in Danganronpa V3 is so much fun and so enjoyable and so pleasing to play. The tempo ups actually feel like youre progressing and pressing the buttons in time is so smooth and feels really good and even if you play the same one over and over again i never get bored of it
Metal: Hellsinger is really really good I am surprised you didn't speak about it
Was not expecting the Mad Maestro mention at all! That was my very first rhythm game. and tbh the button sensitivity mechanic was pretty tricky for me to get down at first. And probably also led me to pressing the buttons on my ps2 controller harder for other games when I wanted an attack to be stronger.
For me, I always end up thinking of Audiosurf when it comes to rythm games. It was always good at the sight reading thing given just how far you can see ahead.
Whoa, Before the Echo brings me back. Back to when it was called Sequence, before it had to change its name for legal reasons. (there was already a piece of software called Sequence)
Also, regarding BPM, there's another rhythm hybrid FPS out there, going by the name of Metal: Hellsinger.
I didn't expect Before the Echo to be mentioned! It has a special place in my heart
It was my first real rhythm game and I played it the summer before senior year of high school, which was a great summer. Also the music slaps.
One of the games that I least expected to try incorporating some rhythm elements is Sky: Children of the Light. Not a central mechanic for an exploration-based MMO collectathon, but still worth talking about imo. Basically, you can unlock the ability to play different kinds of instruments in-game and unlock sheet music, which is basically rhythm game charts for your instruments. The way you play them is kind of similar to other rhythm games like Jubeat or Pulsus, but every button corresponds to a different pitch that the instrument can play. Only problem is, the approach rate for hit indicators is so slow that it often becomes hard to tell which note you have to hit next and when you have to hit it, with so many indicators appearing on the screen at once. And with no way to change this approach rate, I've pretty much ended up avoiding sheet music altogether...
A cool thing thumper does is give each element a unique sound that will always play 4 beats before you have to react. Because of that, after a few levels you start to get really good at sight reading, and it feels like you can predict what's coming up even if you can't see it. The coolest part is that, at least for me, i wasn't even doing this intentionally. My brain just started noticing the corrlation and my muscle mental kicked in.
I tried to play Crypt but while I loved it as a rhythm game, my forever losing battle of trying and failing to like roguelikes drove me away after a while.
Been absolutely loving Soundfall though. And Project Diva F2nd is in my top 5 fav games of all time and has been since it came out.
I'm surprised Soundfall didn't get a mention! It's a great rhythm hybrid.
Yeah, NecroDancer certainly isn't an easy game to be good at, no matter how well you can keep the beat.
@@zarnox3071 it not that it was too hard, its that I just don't enjoy roguelikes. And now for a lack.of trying.
the rhythm heaven fever one is just a rhythm test, like in every other one in the series. i'm pretty sure it doesn't calibrate the game's inputs. plus, the rhythm test itself wouldn't make much sense as a calibration, since it tells you to "try pressing early/late" if you get anything early/late. a calibration wouldn't tell you to do that, since how early/late your inputs are wouldn't matter, it would just adjust. as well as the fact that the part where you have to count to the beat in silence, also wouldn't make sense as a calibration, since it intentionally makes it harder to press the button on the beat by silencing the beeps partway through. plus, you can be as consistently early or late as you want in the rhythm test, and it won't affect the gameplay at all. (i just tested this just a bit ago to make sure.)
I got my boyfriend to play Theatrhythm final bar line with me and he went back to play from the original on the 3DS and complained about the readibily of the swipe yellow notes and it's true, square enix has changed their design 3 times, before they were a white arrow inside a yellow circle (horrible idea), now they are a light yellow bordered white arrow sticking out of a dark gold circle, which reads a lot better. Rhythm games live and die by their UI, I couldn't play VOEZ because it moves the UI so much around that I can't guess where to click the notes. Something similar with dynamix, with having to read notes on your right left and bottom, or Orzmic making you read top to bottom for the most chart and then swapping bottom to top for a gimmick, I love the creativity but you need to memorize those gimmicks and it feels bad
It's always disappointing to me when a rhythm game has a rubbish lag calibration option. It's so essential!
I play a lot of rhythm hybrid games that use a visual assist and they are always nice for calibrating or recalibrating yourself to the beat of the level or game. After a while of playing, you don't have to look at it and can just groove. I wanna give special attention to Bullets Per Minute for using the reticle as a visual assist so you always get a sense of when to be doing your actions as you aim.
Fear of lag is the number one reason I haven't played a rhythm game since DDR on PS2
If you have a decent phone, pick up any odd rhythm game.
I can say Arcaea has never given me a lag spike.
If you can find an arcade, rhythm games don't have lag spikes there either.
I came to the video to see the Doc talk about Theatrhythm: Final Bar Line, and I came to the comments to note that he didn't do that. TFBL is a masterpiece, not only because of the transcendent music from the Final Fantasy series, but also because of the solid rhythmic gameplay, which would have all fallen on its face had its UI not been up to snuff. The game is impressive in quality and quantity, and as one of the most recent entries in the genre to be released, it seems like a natural time to discuss it now.
I am shocked that you included Mad Maestro! I loved that game and I don’t know anyone else who has ever heard of it
You should check out Overpass. As a rhythm game it’s a little funky. The the notes are very small and obscure and hard to read, but it still works somehow. It’s also notable that it’s one of the few chart rhythm games I’ve seen where the notes are on the top of the screen instead of the bottom.
Rhythm games with custom beat map support should have a way of automatically showing difficulty. Beat Saber has the problem of only having five fixed difficulties so most custom songs are labeled "Expert+" but their actual difficulty varies wildly. Osu's star system is a good example of this done right, you know roughly how hard a level is just by comparing stars
In standard mode, star rating is relatively well done, in other game modes though it's a crapshoot. For example in mania, there are 3* charts that play more like a low 5*, and on the other extreme I've nearly S'd a 12* (9* + DT) chart that was hideously overrated due to it's use of short LNs, OD0 and low HP rating, while there are many 6* maps that I have no hope in hell of surviving. Similarly, Taiko's star rating seems somewhat bad, although I don't play Taiko so I can't comment too much on it.
This is true. The star rating system used in Scoresaber/ Beat Leader ranked maps (totally not taken from Osu) achieves what you're asking for, although it does have weighting issues and only applies to curated maps. You can usually get a rough idea of map difficulty by looking at BPM, NPS and top scores but that's really an experience thing
One issue I have with a lot of pure rhythm games is that they usually have actual character animations covering most of the screen, but they exist solely for the benefit of onlookers, since the player has to stay focused on the scrolling pattern of input prompts. You know how some games like _Dead Space_ integrate the health meter and such into the character model? I'd like to see some rhythm games start to take a similar approach to their input prompts. Where the characters singing, dancing, or kicking ass to the beat _are_ what you need to keep an eye on to know what to do next.
DEEMO! PLEASE EVERYONE GIVE IT A PLAY
Okay I actually gotta defend No Straight Roads on this one.
To me, the player not having to sync up never felt like "poor gameplay design", but instead felt like a deliberate choice to fit the themes of the game's narrative.
Think about the story premise; these two are rebelling against a highly unified, controlled one-genre system by utterly rejecting said genre. They are, quite literally, playing to a different beat from everything around them.
Not the oracle of ages one😂 I hate that rhythm mini game so much. I never best my physical copy of OoA because of that. Had to save state my way through it