Don't do this
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- V tail Bonanza escapes Johnson Creek - 2 pm. Light south winds 90 degree F.
This video had about 150 views total until late Sept 2023 and for some reason went totally viral. Yes it has a click bait title but that was not my intention. If you fly in and out of mountain strips you must understand density altitude. Density altitude is effected by elevation, temperature and humidity. There are less air molecules at altitude and on hotter days to create lift under the wing and produce compression within the cylinders of the engine. Consequently the performance of the wing and engine are reduced as the density altitude is increased. Humidity effects density altitude because the vaporized water displaces the air molecules further reducing lift and compression in the engine.
Johnson Creek (3U2) sits at an elevation of 5000 feet and 3500 feet long. It is in the heart of the Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho. It is a spectacular place to camp, hike, fish, and commune with nature. It is a focal point in the Frank Church Wilderness with a rich history. Mountain Flying caries more risk in part due to density altitude and needs to be factored into one's risk assessment. With proper training, proficiency and education much of the risk can be mitigated. Many of the strips have non standard approaches often with no option for a go around or rejected takeoff. I have other videos on this channel that show a lot backcountry strips in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and Washington. I have a CFII/MEI and stay active instructing in a variety of aircraft and am very passionate about about aviation..
This video is instructional to anyone wanting to learn about Density Altitude. The temperature was over 90 degree F this afternoon and it was unusually humid. There was a 5-10 knot quartering tailwind. The DA was about 8200 feet that day. Runway 35 is standard departure from Johnson Creek. The 35 Bonanza was loaded with 4 adults. . Unknown how much fuel or baggage was onboard. I doubt he was in a turbocharged aircraft. When we heard the engine start and taxi down toward the departure end of 35 we were all surprised. Most people do not fly in the afternoons in Idaho and the general recommendations among most seasoned mountain/canyon pilots is to be down on the ground by 11-11:30 AM. Certainly on cooler days you can fly later and on hotter days you may need to get down sooner. Fly early and fly light.
This pilot did a good job once airborne not to stall the airplane. He kept the nose down and contoured the terrain. I believe he wisely headed up the canyon to gain lift created by updrafts on the northwest walls. I agree he should have deployed 10-20 degrees of flaps on the departure. Maybe flown out solo at first to test the conditions. A wiser decision would have been to wait until it cooled off. Below is a video of a loaded Stinson departing from Bruce Meadows with 4 people that crashed into the trees on the departure end in 2012 luckily not killing anyone. Every year people die because they do not factor DA into their flight planning.
• Airplane Crash In-Cock...
Hope this answers most of the questions. Safe Flying for Everyone and Support the RAF (Recreational Aviation Foundation) and IAA (Idaho Aviation Association).
Videos like this are 100% equally as important as accident case studies. Just because a disaster didn't happen didn't mean it wasn't totally wrong.
100 % agree. Flying GA is all about risk mitigation. We try leave room for margin for safety. This was on the edge and had the wind been stronger, temperatures warmer, or the pilot not as skillful this would have resulted in wrecked airplane and likely 4 fatalities.
i dont understand this video, can you explain?
@@PinkeySuavo The plane is too heavy, and/or the air too low on density, it just barely clears the treeline. The pilot should have aborted the take-off because the plane wouldn't take off the way it should have. But the pilot continued anyways, risking it all.
@@GenuineFlolie I see. Thank you
Know your role and shut your mouth, you jabroni. Pilot succeeded in his objective and no one really cares about your opinion
“There’s airplane skeletons out there in those bushes for a reason.”😂🤣😂
Bonanzas: Doctor killers lol
Not really that funny.
@@Roddy556absolutely not for this reason though.
@@FS2K4Pilot snowflake
@@marcoeland3405 it still applies. Person has an expensive plane, is probably used to being in charge, and does something cocky/stupid.
Someone who has less money and more passion/experience will often fly better.
I was serving in the RAF, stationed in Malta, and one autumn, a hell of a storm blew up (they had to load a C130 on a dispersal pan to the max, chain her down, park two fire tenders in front of her as a windbreak, and she was *still* bouncing around like a pea on a drum). So I'm walking through the camp, leaning into the wind at a crazy angle to stop from being blown over, and I see a pilot from 39 Squadron (Photo Recon.) coming towards me.
"Not taking the Canberra up today, Bob?", I asked.
"Some days, Jack", he replied, "even the *birds* are walking!"
Ain't that the truth.
It’s funny, I was reading that normally (well normally to me) but when it got to the quotes my inner monologue switched to a British accent….
Great. Only pilots understand your comment...and try to imagine a 180 degree taxi turn-struggle to line up the runway, for instance...
That’s a good story mate 🇦🇺
Nice story, first heard the punchline in the early 60s, an old pilots saying.
@@asquare9316 - and as true now as it was when it was first said (quite possibly over 100 years ago).
I think before he took off, he told his passengers "We might make it, let's give it a shot.""
"Hold my beer..."
ah yes, the motto of Ryanair
at that point, they emptied their bowels making the craft lighter.
I would definitely NOT take those risk with passengers on board
Aunt Edna swore she only weighed 65KG.
Her sandwich is making me hungry.
Love this comment. Very funny.
that's funny, her drink was making me thirsty..
@@KremitDeFrogher milkshake brought me to the yard
These pretzels are making me thoisty
Thanks, now I'm hungry.
Of all the flight videos I have seen, this is one of them.
Ain' that the truth
😂
It becomes blatantly obvious how much power you no longer have in the heat at high elevations. I'm no pilot, but I'm a trucker. Starting up a grade in 90* heat in Montana or Idaho at 80k lbs, you're already prepared for the complete lack of power and the temperatures to start going up. Do the same thing in New York in the hills on a 55*-60* day and you'll understand, at least from an engine performance perspective, why heat and height are important.
I drove a new diesel-engined SUV up to the Sierra Nevada ski resort in Spain to about 10,000 feet and the engine was struggling, black smoke coming out the exhaust. The air might have been cold, but the air density was low, even breathing felt a bit strange. Then down again and the engine and myself felt a lot better!
Totally stumbled on this video by accident as an amateur flight nerd, but this is so close to me! Hope you guys stayed safe with the fires this year, excellent footage.
What a beautiful looking area!!!
I thought I was the one and thought that it's common for people who touch grass
This video was filmed back in 2018 and had about 150 views until 4-5 days ago. Not sure what made the video get such attention but this was posted really to educate people about density altitude. Flying in Idaho in the summer requires some planning and in general departing Johnson Creek at 2 PM on a 90F day with a tailwing takeoff is just not a good idea. I agree with the comments about adding flaps but better to have just waited until it cooled off. I posted this video from 1966 published by the FAA. It is about a guy who coincidentally flies a 35 Bonanza with the name " Harry Bliss. " It is a very instructional video on DA and all still applies today. Be safe and always be mindful of DA.
th-cam.com/video/sYrV35HCa5k/w-d-xo.html
I wondered!
Down wind on a high density day?
Did this guy own a pen and paper and an E6B?
Probably YT sending it to Blancolirio fans. And looking at the flag, the left turn was into a tail wind. And no flaps???
whatsa "a tailwing takeoff"
What did you do to make this vid appear on my recommendation? Tell me your secret.
@@DefactoAmbassador It is Al Gore's rhythm, that is all.
I just tried out an online density calculator. 90 degrees Fahrenheit at 5000 feet gives a density altitude of 8038 feet. At 70 degrees, the density altitude is 6836 feet. Taking off when the weather is cooler certainly helps.
Before takeoff, the pilot needs to look up several numbers in the pilot's operating handbook: "What my Bonanza's rate of climb at 8038 feet?", "What is my Bonanza's required runway length to take off from grass at 8038 feet with X knots of tailwind?", "What is my Bonanza's Vx speed for best angle of climb?", and "What is my Bonanza's maximum gross weight and have I exceeded it?".
This takeoff was done on a day with high humidity. That also increases density altitude, but I don't have a way to calculate how much.
This one includes the dew point: www.weather.gov/epz/wxcalc_densityaltitude
You forgot barometric pressure
@@rylanthompson5844 And that's all before you throw in any sink from mechanical turbulence, the wind down in the canyon may not be fully indicative of what's happening up higher, basic soaring 101.
@@rylanthompson5844 Barometic pressure is exactly what the 8038 number represents.
Barometric pressure changes with weather systems. The runway altitude does not change. But the pressure altitude changes a lot. This is why you must adjust the altimeter to field elevation for each departure. And also why we tune ATIS for current altimeter setting before entering the pattern.
To find density-altitude, you need pressure altitude and temperature. Not field elevation. As was given above.
Humidity is easy, simply find percentage, and in conjunction with temp you can find percentage water mass per cubic foot of air. Water displaces air/oxygen. But it has such a slight effect that it's not really necessary. (0.01-3% in worst case).
"He needs to just stop" Lol. Sounds like something my wife would say if I brought her to a fly-in
At the point she said that he was going flying or dying. No stopping when you are 3/4 down the runway at full tilt.
This seems like a bunch of people being jealous of a Bonanza...
Get the outside air temp from your temperature probe. Get pressure altitude by setting your altimiter to 29.92. Combine the two in a flight computer to get density altitude. Use your pilot operating handbook to calculate your takeoff distance and climb rate. Add a buffer, say 10% for having an old plane. Bam, there you go.
Id say boom but dont know bout the pilot
T/O into the wind
@@tmayorca8770 That too
So that was what the section on the Kane was for.
Also, talk to the locals. They’re talking about a down-slope wind here. Mountain air currents can make your performance charts worthless.
It’s possible (depending on wind speed, direction, and atmospheric stability) that the other side of the canyon has an updraft, but that also may be a turbulent mess.
Avoid the Bam.
Don't do this - take off on 17.
Johnson Creek (3U2)
Recommended Standard Operating Procedures
Departing Runway 17
Strongly Discouraged
Why?
1. Your takeoff path is directly toward the Bryant house and rising terrain.
2. Southerly winds prevail in the late afternoon. Aircraft should remain on the ground until more favorable conditions exist.
3. High density altitude conditions have contributed to several accidents at Johnson Creek.
Did you contradict yourself or am I reading your comment wrong?
@@Yeager123123 How so?
@@smark1180 You said to take off on 17 and then put that Departing Runway 17 is strongly discouraged.
I get how you read it but what he meant is "Don't do this (as in, don't do what's in the video) - (which is) take off on 17."
But the way it's written I think it makes sense that you read it like "don't do this - take off on 17 (instead)." In which case he'd absolutely be contradicting himself.
@@Yeager123123 Nope. "This" = take off from 17.
The title of this video is _Don't do this_ to which I appended "Take off on 17" which obviously means don't take off on 17. I added the airport SOP which includes "Departing Runway 17 Strongly Discouraged" which confirms "Don't do this - Take off on 17." I didn't write "INSTEAD, take off on 17."
There's nothing contradictory about that.
1 name comes to mind!
HARRY BLISS!! The vintage FAA density altitude flick. “This thing has a ceiling of 20,000ft with that kind of performance we can fly anywhere”.🤣🤣🤣
It is quite possible this pilot was very good. And also thorough.
Field length is given. Field elevation is given. Turf and soil condition is also self evident for anyone standing around there.
Pressure altitude is found by setting altimeter to 29.92" and observing altimeter reading.
Density altitude is quickly computed by any pocket calculator, slide rule, or flight related computer from pressure altitude and temperature.
Gusting tailwinds are hard to quantify. But it appears to be relatively calm here.
You wont find strong down-drafts just randomly on a hot afternoon. There will be strong updrafts where the sun is shining (this runway) and the downdrafts will be in the shade. Usually along north facing slopes.
The fact this fellow had maximum power with brakes applied. Did not choose to set takeoff flaps (for specific reasons, mostly due to excess drag including induced drag from destroying your span-wise lift distribution with flaps deflected).
He does not force the rotation. Be does not raise the nose too high. He gently coaxes the aircraft off the grads, into ground effect. Allows speed to build gradually, without the grass slowing him down. He establishes a gentle rate of climb that allows him to clear the trees by a comfortable 100' (3x tree height). And he does not get greedy andtey to climb steeper at a potentially lethal Vx, as suggested above. (Backside of power curve, excessive induced drag, close to stall, with no way out except to nose over).
This pilot established a respectable 500fpm cruise-climb rate. At higher speed and shallow angle of attack. And simply climbed over the trees with plenty of airspeed to handle a gust or downdraft.
Everyone standing around, armchair pontificating about the performance of an aircraft they have never even flown or opened the POH for. Judging another pilots ability, experience, knowledge of his craft, and his ADM judgement based on their own limited knowledge of their own antique airplane, which does have nor ever included a POH. Because they were sold before this was even a requirement.
Most of those planes lack graphs and charts and engineering level performance data which Beechcraft alone, and no other manufacture, includes with their aircraft. Most older Cessnas and pipers, bellancas and Stinsons you are lucky to get single data points printed, such as Vx, Vy, Vne. Which do not tel the tale, and will lead pilots to make very poor use of their airplanes. Such as attempting a Vx takeoff as high density altitude with trees at the end of a plenty-long 3/4 mile runway.
He also took the right side of the valley, vs turning in the center, which is what you should do in narrow cannon/valleys. Two things about that, that make it the right thing to do, and this pilot Monday quarter backing brought it up… if he is concerned about “sinkers” come from the left, then you want to be on the opposite side where the lift is happening. Additionally, you should never fly in the center of a narrow valley, that’s where mid-airs happen. Also, flying as far over to one side, gives you more room to maneuver if you need to turn back. I honestly didn’t see anything wrong with the pilots actions. He got off 3/4 of the runway, he stayed to the right of the valley away from down drafts, avoiding head on traffic situation, and giving more room for maneuvering.
Did we find the pilot here? That's some oddly specific knowledge
@@bearb1asting I think that’s coming from someone that knows bonanza aircraft. I’ve only got a little over 20 hours in a bonanza but he’s 100% right about bonanza performance charts and he appears to have knowledge on Johnson strip. As for my comment, it is about general mountain flying and from what I can see, the pilot made the right choices as far as his path out.
Right. If eleven contributing factors are perfect, the performance of this aircraft is at book data or better, and the engine, gear and flaps work perfectly, and EVERY move that the pilot makes is absolutely flawless, then there'll be no problem.
I wonder how important it was to arrive at his destination on time?
He was fine. It’s all down hill from there with plenty of big bowls to make a turn around in. You never trade airspeed for altitude.
i would have flown in ground effect longer to gain even more airspeed, then climb out.
Unless you're gonna hit a mountain!
@@JohnMoore-xf5wy which they weren’t as I previously said it down stream with open valleys…
"You never trade airspeed for altitude."
Except when you need to climb.
@@smark1180 until you run out and stall then spin. Bonanza, telluride crash, 2020
He didn't turn left right away so as to 1. avoid turning sooner than necessary, 2. to position on one side of the canyon to allow room for a shallow left banking turn if necessary to turn around, 3. to avoid a head on with any inbound aircraft. Though flying a V-Tail Doctor Killer, he handled it well.
1. the "doctor killer" is a perfectly safe plane. 2. youre never turning around in that valley at that altitude and height agl. its just not an option thats why they call it "the impossible turn" under 700ft. 3. nobody is coming head on. planes takeoff and land in the same direction if you haven't noticed
@@Sammyb_rc I think I may be missing something, but I'm confused as to what you think is going here.
“… he handled it well.”
I just spat coffee all over my screen. Getting lucky is not the same as handling it well. A more appropriate analysis would be something like, “he was fortunate to be able to crawl out from the massive safety hole he dug for himself”.
“You miss 100% of the takeoffs you don’t take”
- Plane Gretzky
Plane Gretzky shouted some wisdom as he passed by in this video.. but it was difficult to hear him over the Karen noises and the clucking hen sounds
Yea but you survive 100 % of the takeoffs you don't take. This takeoff I'd rather miss and survive.
That makes absolutely no sense.
I can't escape from thinking this was simply a more challenging scenario, consciously and expertly taken on by a skilled pilot. I also find it humorous how all of the pilot's very correct actions are criticized as mistakes, in order, by the people speaking in the video.
@@ntdfmaverick read some mountain flying books Look at the loaded 206 that just crashed killing 2 people at this airport 3 weeks ago Or the 182 at big creek on Father’s Day Pilots are making errors Experience pilots as well In general you do not fly in the afternoons In general you do not take off loaded In general you do not takeoff when it’s 90 degrees F In general don’t take off with a tailwind The bonanza pilot has all of this contributing factors For every plane crash with fatalities there are several like this where they escape Read the description I wrote I gave credit to the pilot for his skill
Safety is about margins This was too thin a margin for most people Let alone the pilot and 3 passengers The intention of the video is to show accepted practices for DA Not razor thin margins of safety If you want to learn more read any of the work by Amy Hoover, or Lori McNichol We will continue to see deaths every year in Idaho precisely because people either think they have a margin of safety that is much less or don’t understand DA at all and wing it either is not acceptable I also fly high risk missions and am speaking as someone who teaches backcountry and mountain flying
This was most likely a density altitude problem as the Bonanza was unable to climb.
Loon Creek airstrip is about 30 miles east of there. Equally scary. Flew there in a small plane about 40 years ago. The old-timer pilot (Paul Reams) had never seen the airstrip, but absolutely refused to land there. It looked fine to us, the passengers. We landed in Challis instead. About 3 hours by car from our intended destination. Later learned from local bush pilots that our pilot made a VERY savvy decision.
I refused to land at Paradise Airport for the same reason. It's a 1200' one-direction runway with a cliff on the end you take off and land from.
Incredible write-up in the description. Thanks for that
I appreciate you taking the time to read it. I can't tell you how many comments I get on this page regarding information that is contained within the description. Appreciate the kind feedback. It really is a great training video for Density Altitude.
It happened to me a few times that the conditions and runway length were not the best, and without making calculations many pilots would have decided to stay on the ground, but by consulting the POH and using as few approximations as possible it was safe to go. I don't mean to say that you MUST fly in precarious conditions, but you MUST fly using all means of threats and errors management.
I fly a V tail , and for those who question why the pilot didn’t use flaps for takeoff, in every takeoff scenario with the Bonanza, climb will be steeper and have a higher rate without flaps. In this video, I’d question two factors that affect all aircraft. First is density altitude, second is gross weight. I’ve read density altitude was + 8500 feet this day. Combine that with a grass strip, more rolling drag, and it’s no wonder the pilot had a long roll and shallow climb.
My Dad did the same thing the same thing in our 182M flying out of Happy Camp CA. He used the slope lift get out of the valley.
I know nothing about planes but I had to click on this just because of the beautiful view. Now I also learned a bit in the process.
Aircraft that aren't super hated or turbocharged don't climb as well in less dense and hot weather. Takeoff runs are longer on grass. Some private pilot's aren't as careful as they have been taught to be.
There are charts for taking off at certain temperatures and pressures as well as on grass. Pilots are obligated by regulation to calculate takeoff distances before flying. Not only don't wings not work as well at high temperatures... normally aspirated engines also don't and altitude is a frequently recurring aviation safety topic. Furthermore, you are supposed to have a set point to abort a takeoff if it is not going well so that you don't run out of runway.
Pilot was clearly not a doctor.
Just because he didn't crash doesn't mean it is advisable. Also there is still some valuable learning from this, about DA as mentioned before. Maybe it's not the done thing, but I would have looked for a pilot on the strip with more experience there and had a chat about taking off from that strip. Never hurts to ask.
I know at the old denver dragstrip was at 5800 with DAs in the 6500 range normally and a 350hp naturally aspirated engine would lose about a 100hp minimum.
This might have had half his hp and in thinner air aerodynamically too...
I thought we were watching the world's fastest lawnmower.
When I read *Beechcraft V-Tail* I thought for sure it would be a crash..
Hard to tell from vid but I dont think I saw any flaps lowered...? 0:17
Forked tailed doctor killer
lmfao
I prefer to believe doctors kill the Bonanza
These planes do the short coupled dance too much for my taste.
i'd rather see a pilot keep it on the runway until he's almost out of it than horsing it off before it's ready to fly. Airspeed is more important than altitude, I don't care how close I come to something, if I'm flying in full control/have good airspeed. Not a Bonanza pilot so can't comment on the particulars about this clip.
I don't know the short/soft take off procedures in a v-tail bonanza, but I didn't see any flaps which are usually a part of a short/soft field take off.
It wasn't a short field, more like a density altitude situation with a loaded aircraft.
I subscribed, liked, clicked the bell, and came here, only because the channel name Dog is my cool pilot! Keep on trucking!
Nice. I have a soon to be 13 year old pit bull who used to do a lot of flying with me. He’s still goes up for short flights to the beach but doesn’t enjoy the camping trips out in the wilderness like he did when he was younger.
Is he on Galliprant? Its great for doggie arthritis.
He didn't take on the Mountain. He went up the valley like he was supposed to.
.... down the valley... not up valley
@@snoopyontheground3481 Yeah, he did that too
Go with zero flap during acceleration and apply first level as you rotate. Less drag - more lift.
haha
Gotta retract that flap at some point. Better know Vx with both zero flaps and one notch, and be practiced at nailing your airspeed. Better yet, wait ‘til the air cools.
soft field so not really
@@russbell6418Park it and have one of those yummy looking sammiches!
Hard to do it in a bonanza with electric flap lever with no detents. And the first 10 degrees take a hell of a long time to deploy. So you just either pre set it or you don’t. You don’t mess with it during your takeoff run
YT just suggested this to me, good to see. Not sure how many GA accident reports have the "if only they hadn't tried to take off in the heat of mid day..." Good that they were OK, but I appreciate learning from others' close calls.
When I was a kid my dad would call those planes the doctor killer. They could afford them, and there was some crashes
Always go early in the morning……cool air provides much better lift…and the cooler dense air makes more power…..glad my dad never flew his Bonanzas like that….😊😊
Planes take off all hours of the day & night.
A smart pilot leaves in the early morning with cool air…I don’t care if they leave all day long….we never left in the hot air of the afternoon….my dad was smarter than that….😀
Not at high density altitude they don’t….thats how you die…it’s apparent that you don’t know much about flying
That's a tough pilot. Hope it all worked out.
Watch out 4 density altitude ;-)
A non turbocharged engine with 4 adults and baggage. Even if his POH said he could make it, it was probably just barely. Why would anyone even risk it??? I thought the whole ego thing in flight school was a bit of a joke but I quickly learned that it is a real thing and its one of the first things I try to recognize when I meet a new pilot to understand if I can trust them or not.
Where is this ? Looks beautiful. Idaho ?
Johnson Creek, Idaho
I've been in and out of this strip dozens of times. My rule is to not fly after 11 am and before 6 pm. Came in one time at 4 pm totally loaded and was ok landing uphill into the wind. A go-a-round would have been scary.
Flight sims are cool huh
All well and good. But what specific airplane?
It matters for the go/no-go decision.
In fact. The only variable that matters is what can the airplane do and is the pilot in command able to get the book numbers out of it.
Density altitude take off with passengers. On rotation, 1)gear up to eliminate drag, 2) increase airspeed and finally turn out and climb, standard procedure
I was drawn to this film because of the “cool pilot”, I live near to a place in north west England called “Coole Pilate” pronounced the same though.
how bout flaps ? I don't remember seeing them.
Been there several times camping next to my trusty Grumman Cheetah. Many good memories at Johnston Creek.
No flap take off? I'm a high wing guy and I'd have put 10 degrees in there for sure.
Hey, its Harry Bliss
Yeah. Same airplane. Too funny.
Wow, 8k ft DA? Sheesh. Anyway, I'm giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. He/she is clearly very intimately familiar with the capabilities of the plane.
That Bone-Anza’s engine has at least one weak cylinder. I’ve experienced that. It will pass the run-up mag check, RPM drop. In the air it just won’t climb.
Super cool spot! I flew in last summer. Would never roll out at 2pm and 90 degrees. Just not enough margin to absorb any errors.
Or he/she could have left at 10AM that morning when it was just 69 degrees and no one has to worry will they survive that day or not.
90 degrees tells you everything....
Little did they know the Pilot has over 10,000 hours flight time in GTA5
I think this pilot was actually quite skilled. The way he contoured the hills flying northerly toward higher terrain took good airmanship/mountain flying experience. If you know this pilot or are the pilot I would love to hear about this flight from that perspective. I wish I could say that I have made perfect ADM (Aeronautical decision making) choices every time I flew but I would be lying. We all need to learn from our mistakes
I am going to post this video on BeechTalk once it hits 1 million views. Just for fun. Hopefully find the pilot. My hope is this video will serve as an instructional source for everyone to learn about DA.
Well, 10,000 hours did not help him choose a plane suited for those conditions and terrain.
Another pilot who never belongs at Johnson Creek
Shouldnt you have flaps set for a soft field departure? That was a close one!!
... even build up speed... THEN apply flaps partway down the runway for lift... either way, pilot had NO margin for recovery there.
Density altitude issue, if anything. That strip isn't soft and likely is not even wet - with watering in progress nearby.
@@cdncitizen4700he’s fine😂😂😂
For whatever reason Beech omitted the use of flaps for takeoff in the POH.
Wait a minute, I seen a Cessna caravan at Caldwell owned by ‘dog is my copilot’. Did I find that pilot?! I saw it with an ARF callsign
Very interesting to see. Thanks for posting! I'm super happy to see that this didn't result in a mishap. I've edited my post as I'm a non pilot and had to educate myself on the phenomenon of "Density Altitude" I think this pilot might be safer if they did a little research like I did. 🤔.
She had ham in that
But was the drink spiked?
Soft field take off with no flaps? Good luck.
I dont see much wrong here tbh.. He is keeping low to clock up airspeed, nothing wrong with that.. Easy to critique sombody when all you fly is bush planes and very light sport aircraft.. But to everybody else who wants to get out of that airport, its stay low until your airspeed is fully alive..
Love that canyon...when there's no planes flying over every 10 mins during hunting season 😂
This place has the most air accidents than any landing strip there is. Cant believe it hasn't been shut down.
Skilled pilot.
Even better when these takeoff/landing judges come up to you after you landed at Johnson Creek and share their opinions, especially the ones who are not even pilots. Some day we will all be as good as they think they are.
If level in low ground effect takeoff is not default, the extra acceleration energy of low ground effect will not be there when we need it. Gear is as much drag when rolling on wheels as when in low ground effect so does not have to come up quickly, or can if needed. Planning and waiting is better but default low ground effect is a good technique for disorganized or impatent pilots as well.
Jim. I agree this pilot had some skill. But he made a bad decision to takeoff at the highest DA of the day with a quartering tailwind in a loaded Bonanza with 4 adults. Good technique with a low ground effect takeoff. Good choice to head up the canyon and get some lift off the ridge from the southeasterly winds. But that’s just not good ADM. Not a lot of margin. My guess is this pilot was sweating balls after he was wheels up and this flight scared the bejesus out of him. I put it up on the channel so that people could really see the effect of DA on performance and hopefully launch on cool mornings with light loads. Give yourself lots of margin.
Yes, Josh, you are correct. I assumed he was taking off down drainage as well. Crop dusting I worked low ground effect to near the limit, but I was always single pilot.@@dogismycoolpilot9662
Sometimes a pilot gets away with it but when it's this close to disaster just wait for better conditions. If this is how the pilot always fly's he will come to a point were some unexpected wind goes against him, more margin needed I think. @@dogismycoolpilot9662
@@dogismycoolpilot9662 I would have liked to see him use elevator to get up six inches and level in low ground earlier, but complex guys don't always see than ground effect energy is greater than drag of gear. And that Mooney guy on BCP did both low ground effect and gear up. What pitching up before Vso into low ground effect tells us, should it not happen before mid point, is that we need to abort. And yes, prior planning prevents pitifully poor performance. I was a pipeline patrol pilot. We flew in wind, heat of day, and low ceilings. High DA might require down drainage, as did the Bonanza, and then come back around to the pipeline right of way. Glad this came up again. Miss your comments.
2 yrs after my pilot grandpa died his best friend took me there for their June fly in back in 2004 when I was 9. Never seen such beautiful canyons to through such as those. At least not outside of the central sierra nevada where I'm from in California
I would say they are a little hard on this pilot. I am not sure the conditions, the weight of the plane but just so everyone knows, once you clear the trees at the end of the runway, it is downhill, just follow the river. You should make it assuming there are no major down drafts. Always best to depart early in the morning and not with a tailwind to the north. I certainly would be nervous not climbing any faster.
Wonder what the density altitude was and his weight.
The DA was about 8200 feet on takeoff. The airplane was loaded with 4 adults - not sure about the amount of fuel. I thought he might have been in a turbocharged airplane when he first started the roll but could tell he wasn't after making an anemic ground run. I am going to guess this pilot learned his lesson after his balls were riding high in the back of his throat clearing that terrain. My Skywagon on a cool morning can climb straight over the hill directing in front of runway 35 just for some reference. Similar engine in a 35 Bonanza. The Skywagon is a better climbing airplane but a Bonanza would normal ease off the runway at Johnson Creek with cooler temps. Good lesson for anyone regarding DA (density altitude). Why I posted the video.
After googling the airport that is some very rough retain to fly around. I would double check all my numbers before taking off. Great video. @@dogismycoolpilot9662
I would say both too high. But there is no point in climbing at best angle if you don't have to, he's gaining airspeed and then doing a gentle climb. But its obviously not got excessive power because he used 10 miles of runway.
4 adults? Seems irresponsible.
DA 8200? Wow! You'd be lucky to launch a child's kite in a 20 knot wind, wouldn't you? If you could, you'd be well and truly out of breath by the time it took flight.@@dogismycoolpilot9662
Legend has it that Bonanza is still out there, trying desperately to climb up to 50ft.....😊😮
I guess they looked at the density altitude and said "good enough"
Maybe he didnt turn because he wasnt fast enough to bank 30°. I cant remember the load factor of a 30° banked turn. I think its around 1.2.
10 degrees would do it.
I thought it was the fact that there are sprinklers running next to an active runway...
‘You always see that at least once a year’, which is it then?
Why didn't the pilot have flaps deployed?
to gain airspeed faster.
"There are skeletons of planes in the bushes" .. I'm dead this group sounds like such a nice people to be around .. also I just woke up and that sandwich really looks good .. I'm hungry now 🤣
The woman with the sandwich and wine is making me want to leave work and go enjoy myself 😂
Near miss, is what that looked like. Beautiful area
That looked litte bit scary to say the least !
I subscribed to this channel just because of the name. 😍
Near miss is what that looked like. Beautiful country close to Yellerstone.
no flaps?
It’s very important to check air density and weight.
I vow to listen to experienced aviators, hell even a child when preparing a takeoff. I KNOW the universe gave him a sign not to take off.
Is this the same field that a midair happened at with 2 planes on final a few years back?
Love the part about airplane skeletons.
That flag on the right was showing a cross/tail wind on takeoff. I think he was too scared to make that turn, the thing was barely flying at that point.
I thought this was about that girl with the sandwich who leaned out right under the prop of that plane. Somebody could have boarded it in the meantime and started it up....
Density Altitude and Over Gross. Happens in the mountains all the time. Can't get out with the same gross you came in with especially on a hot day.
Isnt this the airfield where a midair on short final was filmed? *edit* " If you fly in and out of mountain strips you must understand density altitude."
That airport remains of watching the spirit of Saint Louis cut it slim
Non-pilot here.... "Don't take off from a lawn runway and fly away."
OK.... The plane didn't crash. What am I missing?
I’m not going to comment on the what pilot did or didn’t do, but if density altitude is that bad I would pass on that fly in altogether. I’ve flown into some sketchy airstrip’s and ill never do it again
So….don’t take off and successfully fly away?
No margin. If anything goes wrong (there are a lot of them!) he and (more importantly) his three passengers are into the trees. The problem with aviation is that everything looks fine until it isn't.
@@MrSunrise- good point. Being successful once doesn’t mean every future attempt will also be just as successful.