Welder grounds, everything you wanted to know
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2024
- In this episode we tackle a viewer request dealing with welder grounds
0:00:00 Intro and overview
0:05:11 Grounding solutions
0:12:45 Safety
0:22:03 Conclusion
#welding #welders #howtoweldforbeginners #tigwelding #migwelding #stickwelding
I don't think I've come across any instructional videos on youtube that relay the information so clearly and easy to understand. When you've been doing something for a while, it's easy to think many of the basics are "common sense". Well, they are only common sense if you understand the process. I started watching these videos because I'm not very familiar with this process. This safety video pointed out several things that I hadn't considered. But now that I have a better understanding of the process and how to expect the electricity to behave, those things do almost seem like common sense. To make a long story short, never skip even the most seemingly obvious steps. This video provided exactly what I was looking for as someone teaching myself to weld. Keep them coming!
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for spending the time to improve your knowledge. Welding with electricity is fairly simple at face
Value but can get very complex the deeper you look. Luckily if you just have a simple understanding of what’s going on you will be in good shape to be able to be functional at welding. So much of the knowledge I have isn’t really that useful to become good at the skill of welding, but it sure helps to understand what’s going on a bit better because it will help solve problems when they come up 😀.
For a ground on a vehicle, don’t forget you can just take say a 2”long 3/8” dia bolt and clamp it in your ground clamp and touch it to your body metal and tack the bolt to the body. Then clamp your ground to this bolt when welding. You can always easily break away this ground point bolt later and grind the surface flat again. Your advice on disconnecting your battery cable before welding is VERY wise advice with your newer vehicles with electronic modules. 😎👍
I often rest my arm on a piece of 2x4 or 4x4 on the table. Not only does it insulate, it helps positioning and keeps my sweaty arm from rusting the table!
Good idea on that. I have been tickled more than a few times welding on something (especially with AC tig) where a simple piece of wood would have prevented it lol.
I'm right there with you, except I tend to favor 2x6. Good call on the 4x4 though. I may go cut a piece to keep at my fixtures table now, come to think of it.
Ok, I've decided you provide the BEST welding instructional videos on YT! I need more time in my day to catch up on the rest of your videos. Keep up the GREAT work!
Thanks for this we all need to remember how a ground works. I worked as an electricians assistance for a couple years and I remember once getting shocked really bad removing a dishwasher I was on my belly an was stuck on the thing being shocked and had to take a lunge to get loose. I suppose in some cases you could drop a piece of rubber mat or even a piece of sheetrock if you need a place to rest an elbow. Speaking of doing dumb things while welding I discovered you not only need long pants and decent shoes but long sleeves shirts as well. I was welding and I had only a short sleeve shirt on figured it wasn't a problem cause I had glove that came up to my elbows well I was wrong. That evening when taking a shower I noticed I had what looked like a sunburn just above my elbows and knowing I had barely been outside I realized it was from welding so now on I leave a long sleeve shirt next to where I weld.
Glad you made it out of that dish washer incident ok. I think that’s why they make it mandatory to have a outlet for a dish washer now rather than hardwiring a dishwasher in. I have tripped a few breakers pulling them out not realizing how shoddy the home owner wiring was lol. I am also glad to hear you wear long sleeve shirts 😀. I see “welding influencers” welding with no ppe on all the time and I know they are going to get skin cancer doing that. I don’t know how people don’t get burned faster, 10 minutes without my shirt buttoned up and I have a red sunburn V on my neck lol. Even worse is arc eye, I had a mild case once by accident and that was 100% enough for me lol.
Oh yes. As a kid I was forbidden to watch my dad welding (except from a decent distance). One day I sneaked behind him and took some close look until h recogniced me. I hat a bad headache for 2 days and burning, itching eyes for nearly a week. That really cured me at the age of 8...😂. Later on i learned the hard way by sunburns to wear long clothing althought some urgent repair had to be done quickly and it would take more time to "dress" then weld.
Another safety piece of PPE is a wrist static discharge strap used a lot in electronics to protect EXPENSIVE circuit boards from static shock and destruction. I don't know if there is a wrist strap that can handle the voltage and current in welding. I used static straps for YEARS when I was an electronic technician in the US Coast Guard.
This Will Rodgers quote works well for electrical PPE... There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
Haha that sounds about right. Reminds me when I was at my city’s tow lot once. They had a sign that said electric fence, do not touch, that was by the main gate. A bunch of kids were waiting for their vehicle to be brought out, standing in a area they shouldn’t be, and one of them went up and grabbed it. They instantly got jolted and fell down trying to get away from it 😅.
I bought the “work clamp” pliers from Strong Hand. I should have bought them before. They’ll clamp on anything. One rated at 500 amps and the other at 250. They are longer, but being able to adjust the clamping width and force is great. Expensive? Yes, but often it’s worth it. These are. I do wish that at some point you will explain the difference between the work clamp, which is part of the live circuit and an actual ground, which isn’t. There is no ground in welding, other than the ground coming from the welder power cable to the wall.
Weekend wrench turner here starting to dabble in welding. Thanks for making this video....
No problem, you won’t regret picking up welding as a skill 😀
Dude I just found ur channel and I love it!
Glad you like what I put out 😀
Great reminder! Thanks!
I thank you Sir for all the good information l have learned so much. Just getting started in welding. Looking forward to
Your next video
Thanks for sticking around and spending time to learn/increase your skills 😀
Always good content. Thank you for the reminders!
Thanks 😀
I got the smaller 300amp version of that brass ground clamp for my titanium 125, all the big ones just seem way out of proportion for the machine, definitely improved the welds and welding experience compared to the stock clamp.
No doubt that 125 could benefit by a better ground clamp. I noticed multiple spots on the clamp where it had arced to parts of it like it wasn’t making decent contact. Anytime that clamp has high resistance the output will be affected, which could cause all sorts of issues. Glad the upgrade made a difference for you 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg yeah i noticed it right away, i dont think i got through a quarter pound of wire before i hopped on amazon looking for a better one, i finished the project with it but by the end of it the jaws were in rough shape for its first use, arced multiple times and even fused itself to my table requiring a love tap from a small ball-peen to get it off. It was definitely worth it, i think its the most cost effective and noticeable upgrade you could do on any budget welder.
No disrespect to you, your welding skills, or your content in general, but it always makes me laugh when you preface a long-winded explanation with "it goes without saying..."
Keep doing what you do, bro. I've been welding for over a decade, but I still learn some things from time to time watching your stuff. Cheers!
More great advise about subjects that nobody else is doing . Thanks!!!
You’re welcome 😀. I have a ton of videos coming out soon, lots of interesting things and tests. You’ll like them I am sure 😀
I like vise grips and attach the ground to the vise grips.
Very well said. Having worked with electronics both low and high voltage circuits for nearly 40 years, I can say you're spot on. And yea, I've been bit a few times. It's no fun! lol
Haha it definitely isn’t. It’s sort of a rite of passage to become part of the circuit in order to be able to play with the circuits lol.
First, that’s a great safety message, and hopefully others will take your sage, common sense advice to heart. And if you’re thinking you know these things and it will never happen to you… you’re wrong
, and hopefully not Dead Wrong - Stuff Happens aka Murphy’s Law!
Do you use those magnetic grounds much? To date (Xmas of 2023), I haven’t seen you use them in any of your videos, so perhaps you use them off camera. As you pointed out, placing multiple ground points around your weld could help prevent an unstable arc or arc blow, which is why I’m thinking about getting 1-2 of them to create multiple ground points to minimize arc wandering/arc blow, and to help give any stray electricity a better path than through me!
I primarily use the magnetic grounds on mobile type repairs. On the welding table I just clamp to the table and call it good. I probably could benefit via multiple grounding points on the table, and definitely making a “third hand” to help establish a decent ground at the start of welding.
Something to also consider is many seat belt retractors and buckles use pretensioners which employ explosive charges similar to the ones used in airbags. The bolts that secure the these units to the body are often coated with a sealant to keep under body water from getting inside the vehicle. In theory, could this increase resistance to actual ground? As a lifelong now retired dealership mechanic I have discharged hundreds of these units because they could not be sent back for warranty return without doing so. Believe me, if one or perhaps more than one goes off it will get your attention. As Greg stated, when working on a vehicle for any reason really, it's always best disconnect the battery
Wannabe newbie here. Thanks for the "safety talk", I have never heard about, or thought about no jewelry while welding.
I never wore jewelry/watches/rings, so I never thought of what might happen. Then when I saw some pics of people injured I realized how sketchy it is to wear metal stuff when around a welding arc. I have been lit up a few times but I can’t imagine what would happen shorting 200amps through a wedding ring 😱. I am sure if I wore jewelry of some sort I would have already learned the hard way by now lol.
So many shocking moments so little time... Another great video from someone that has been shocked multiple times, and it a'nt on my fun list. 🙂
I was just thinking about this today.
Thanks for that explanation. I'd like to add: do not send welding current through your bearings. Although the tire rims Look shiny an may be good conductors....
I have a additional #4 cable with a magnetic groundclamp attached to my welding table. Don't use it a lot but if parts are big, dirty, rusty or painted or i dont want current run through pins and bearings i use it.
I forgot plasma cutting with HV-ignition... Just accidentaly started the arc without the nozzle. Very scary. Never disassembled the torch with the machine running again since that day...
Great point and I definitely should have mentioned that had I remembered. Reminds me of how my neighbor used to build overhead bridge cranes for factories at a big company 30 years ago. He was telling me they ended up shipping out a crane to a customer In Germany, only to have numerous bearings be locked up during assembly. It was determined a few welders had grounded on the wrong side of a bearing and at 300+ amps they smoked them 😅. Woops lol
😂
Greg, thanks for all your shared welding knowledge!
I destroyed the factory car radio on my daughter's Saturn Ion when doing some in-place MIG tack welds when I did a quick repair to her clutch pedal push-rod. (Upside down under the dash) I had disconnected the battery, and thought I had the ground clamp in a place that would provide a good connection on the push-rod, but somehow the Lincoln MIG welder found a different path to ground that somehow went through her radio. I suspect possibly via the braided shielding on the antenna wire and then to the ground connection in the radio? I'm still not sure how it happened.
She got a real nice upgraded car stereo out of that. ;-)
No problem 😀. Thanks for sharing your story. I bet you had a bad feeling in the pit of your stomach when you found out you smoked the radio. No doubt the electricity could have flowed through that cable into the radio. Newer cars are becoming even more computerized and have more wiring. What you described could easily happen to someone without even realizing it, but in today's cars you would be looking at a 1,500$ body control module and a tow to a dealer to get it fixed. A radio is at least reasonable lol. Definitely pays to have multiple grounds on a car as a safety precaution.
Modern square wave AC tig machines don't need a steady HF, because the transition from positive to negative is fast enough that the gas remains ionized.
That would make sense. The weird thing is I owned a everlast machine that on AC it seemed to have a pilot arc separate from the main arc. It was noticeable at low outputs. Every other inverter ac Tig machine I have owned didn’t seem to have one like that.
It would be interesting to see how much protection the average welding glove can offer from electricity/being shocked. I know they have some resistance, but it would be cool to see what it would take to get an arc through a glove. And then even dry glove vs wet glove.
Idk how that could be tested, but it would be cool to know.
That’s a great idea. I can tell you that the safety of a glove has a lot to do with the welder in question. Many bigger industrial welders have 70-80 volts open circuit which is more than enough to short through gloves. Thats why many modern welders have VRD (voltage reduction devices) to limit the risk. When tig welding on A/C (which has a high voltage pilot arc present when welding) it’s very common to get zapped through clothes.
I will have to find a way to test this. I can tell you that clothing tends to be far worse than gloves, I have never been shocked through gloves but clothing is a different story lol.
Love it! "Don't be the key"
I'm replacing my weak ground clamp today.
It does make a difference. Good call on swapping a weak one out. 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks. I bought a copper 400 amp clamp with a real stiff spring.
As a beginner stick minion, I'm ultra sketchy about completing a circuit without intention.
I drilled a hole in a speaker magnet which i added to my clamp...
Mask down , heard the arc, but couldnt see it.
Damn near shit myself.
What do you think of the Fronius Ignis welders?
So the fronius ignis is a new series. The 180 appears to be similar to the trans pocket 180. The 150 is a new unit entirely (and is smaller than the 180). I have no doubt to believe they are the top of the line for small welders. Due to power factor correction they are going to run excellent on generators and on lower voltage. I own the fronius 150 battery unit (accupocket) and it welds really good. I am a big fan of fronius and at this point would recommend them over miller for many options.
What brand is that brass ground clamp?
I bought it on amazon here: www.amazon.com/Shape-Ground-Welding-Welder-Machine/dp/B07TXV9B8M/ref=sr_1_20_sspa?crid=3L0R4JG2L99I4&keywords=brass+welding+ground+clamp&qid=1699513547&sprefix=brass+welding+ground+clamp%2Caps%2C88&sr=8-20-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&psc=1
Hopefully that loaded. Its pretty pricey at 22$ but its built a lot better than the other ones that look like it and are half the price. Highly recommend that specific one. Whatever you do dont buy one of those curved narrow jaw brass clamps like harbor freight and amazon sells, they have no jaw pressure and work like crap if you clamp them to something thin.
Im learning on 240v 86 Ocv & Shorts & Sandals.............
As long as you have some sunscreen on your feet will be fine lol.
lol, i seriously peppered 2 new pairs of socks with holes in 2 days... now i keep my feet away... Ive had a few darn sparks fly into my helmet from above too... a bit spooky... No need to reply... Im just gabbing on... haa l8tr@@makingmistakeswithgreg
The sparks will get you lol. I wore a mesh baseball hat the other day and found out right away why that was a bad idea lol.
Haa...@@makingmistakeswithgreg
Now I've been told they are called 'return' leads and that 'earthing' leads are something else...
What say ye Greg?
A lot of people in countries outside the US call them earths. Realistically the return lead is most appropriate, since it’s technically not a ground lol. To further complicate things the polarity you choose (determined by what process) changes the role of the clamp. DCEN the clamp is the return path. DCEP the rod or Mig gun is the return path. Isn’t welding fun? Lol
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Lol Welding is like being an Electricity Wizard.
And if you tell this a physicist, he would look you deep in the eyes and whisper: Electrons are negative polarity. So the minuspole is the one with electron surplus. This actually means electrons "move" from (-) to (+). But I assume no one of us is a physicist and the description of current flowing from positive to negative is as well forgiveable as the declaration of the return wire as a ground wire🤣🤣! for a laughter: in my language it would be the "Strohmrückführungsleitung" - let's say "Erdungskabel" or "Massekabel" is more convenient... 😁
330th like
Thank you😀
Should be a safety video. Too much