I have been skiing for years but always found the vertical gates confusing. The perspective compression on the TV makes it even harder to work out what’s going on. Thanks for the explanation. I was just watching a race where they said you can go through the hairpin either way and this helped me understand.
Great video I watched a few videos on SL and I was wondering what only two blue gates vertical were after an open red gate where the skier would go through the two blue. Doing some digging it seems like that was an undergate or delay to switch the direction of the course. Good stuff finally sinking in. :)
I always though red was passing on the right and blue is passing on the left. That makes life so much easier. But then the closed gates make no sence. Good to see it is a bit different, but still hard so see on TV what's right.
I think it would be helpful to explain that “open” gates include a theoretical outside pole that used to be set in a line horizontally from the inside, turning pole. It used to be that races always included the outside pole and because the feet had to pass through the line created between the poles, it made it clear that the full gate was created by both poles and the skiing line was dictated by that full gate. But they eliminated the outside pole on slalom courses so that courses no longer look like mazes of poles. It simplifies the race for people watching. Basically courses are being set the same way we used to set up training courses because during training, it just wasn’t necessary to take the time and effort to set up the full course with both poles to make a full gate. If you have ever drilled and screwed gates into the snow, you quickly will understand why. Carrying and drilling the outside poles just isn’t necessary during training and now they don’t bother during races either. And just to explain, we don’t actually call the poles “poles”; I’m just using that for explanation. A single pole is called a “gate”; even though technically the “gate” is also applied to the opening between the two gates (which as I said is now theoretical in slalom). And it applies whether it’s a single slalom gate or a paneled two pole gate for GS, SG, or DH. So “gate” applies to the single poles themselves and the set of gates that constitute a turn (whether single gates for SL or paneled double gates for the other disciplines). It can be a little confusing when the same term is applied to the single gate (the equipment; i.e., the pole) or the full “gate” created by the gates set apart from each other. I hope that helps the newbies.
That is helpful - thanks. When you say that they have eliminated the outside pole, you mean that it's no longer necessary to set the outside pole, but it is sometimes used, correct? Because in the example at 4:06, there are two consecutive red poles set vertically which form one single gate, with the bottom red pole being the "outside" pole.
New high school coach here. At about 10:47, he shows a passage and he says it's 'legal'. However, the skier (green line) did not break the plane between the first red pole and the first blue pole. How is this legal? A second question. Are slalom courses always set up (from the starting gate) so that the skier always passes the red poles on his or her left side of their body and the blue poles on the right? And once they miss a gate, it will be off then?
As to the second question, there’s no “side” to gates based on color. It just alternates blue and red and whichever way the course is set is the way it’s skied. Just to help explain, they no longer put the outside gate on slalom courses. Technically both feet have to pass between the two poles/gates that make a full gate, but they stopped putting the outside gate/pole for open gates that are horizontal to the fall line and they’re now theoretical. As long as the feet pass the horizontal line that extends from the pole, then it’s considered to be passing “through” the gate. For the first and last gates on the course and any vertical combinations or confusing parts, they will include the second gate/pole (which makes sense on a flush since they’re set vertically). The explanation is that the first red gate includes that theoretical outside gate set horizontally away from the turning pole. It used to be that race courses had to include the outside gate (pole) too, but they have eliminated the outside gate for the open turns and courses are now set like training courses. The blue gate for the vertical combination is based on those two blue poles and the feet have to pass between them. There is no theoretical outside gate/pole for the vertical combinations and the two contiguously colored gates/poles make up the single full gate. As he described, one technically could go the opposite way and it would be legal, but it would be really slow because it would set one up for having to make an extra, really tight turn to make the first open gate below the vertical combination because one would be exiting the last vertical gate on the wrong side to make it to the correct side of the following open gate. If you think of the open gates as always having an outside pole/gate that determines which side to ski around, it helps; even though those outside gates are now theoretical in slalom. In my day, we used bamboo for the outside gates just because it wasn’t necessary to screw in a hinged gate. And just to clarify, the term “gate” applies to the single pole itself and as well to the full gate created by both poles/gates (which in SL is two single poles/gates and the other disciplines is the combination of the two paneled gates together forming the full gate). It’s confusing that “gate” applies to the single pole itself (simply the equipment) as well as the full gate created by the two poles/gates or paneled combinations of poles/gates. I used “pole” to help clarify, even though that’s not used in ski racing. It’s “gate” for both. I used to coach Jr. Devo for the SPYDER Team in Alaska (Sports Program for Youth Education and Recreation; our Director was friends with the owner of Spyder Ski Clothing and he let them name the team that, plus we got outrageous deals on Spyder clothes!). Our head coach was former US Team coach Lex Patten and we had a former Canadian Team guy coaching, etc. I just coached the young uns though; which I enjoyed because I got to set good skiing techniques and habits early. Just a hint, if you have kids doing windshield wiper turns with too much up and down movement, try doing exaggerated, counter rotated tuck turns to help them learn to carve. By doing tuck turns, it forces them to not try so hard to make turns and it teaches them to allow the ski to smoothly start the turn on its own. And by getting them to point their poles in the opposite direction from the direction of the turn, it teaches to not over rotate. It’s a slightly different technique than the tuck turns used for SG and DH (which use more inclination), but it’s a great drill to get kids to carve their skis without excess up and down movements. And since over rotation is common in young racers, instilling counter-rotation is fundamental technique.
This 13min rule explanation video can be summarized in just one sentence: cross every pair except when the upper one and its leading one are of the same color.
Why not to have all closed gates avoid confusion? Thanks for explanation btw. Over 40 years on the Earth and was always confused by that when watching on TV
That’s how it used to be done. All gates consisted of two poles/gates and the “open” gates actually had the other pole/gate set about 15 ft horizontally across the hill from the turning gate. Both feet had to pass through the full gate made by the two gates/poles. But it created such a maze, they started setting race courses like training courses and the outside gate/pole became theoretical for the open gates. Once one gets used to setting and running courses on a regular basis, those outside poles/gates just become unnecessary. Racers know they have to pass the horizontal line extending from the turning gate to be considered to have passed “through” the full gate.
Basically, the rules of slalom disqualify a slalom racer when the racer misses a gate one needs to go pass or go through. Just plain and simple! You have to go past or go through the required gates!
To help show where the boundaries for the gate are because the next gate is directly below. It helps to define the course from the skier's point of view.
Technically a full gate is created by the two poles/gates and the feet have to pass between them. But for “open” gates that the skiers skis around, they got rid of the outside pole/gate to make it look like less of a maze. When I was racing, they would put a bamboo pole/gate the same color about 15 feet horizontally away across the fall line. The outside pole/gate is now theoretical on the open turns and the use of both poles/gates is only retained for the vertical combinations (and for the first and last gates on the course). Hope that helps.
It’s because a full gate is technically created by the two poles/gates and both feet have to pass between. But since having the outside pole/gate on the open turns made courses look like mazes, they got rid of the outside poles/gates and courses are set like training courses now. The vertical combinations are the only parts that retain both poles/gates to create a full gate and all the others have “theoretical” outside poles/gates.
Only single pole slalom courses are described here, which very few races use. Even his own choice of demonstration with Mikaela clearly shows a "typical" slalom course set-up which uses pairs of gates which is what 95% of races employ. These course set ups have a completely different set of rules for proper gate passing. Why the video explaining slalom courses that basically nobody uses?
Where we race here in Eastern USA, we almost exclusively race single pole slalom. Pretty much only the world cup and continental cup races use double poles (with control gates for all open gates). Saves time and money.
Even with this explanation I don’t see why do you need this “hair pin” because you can just place one blue stick instead of double sticks and remove vertical gates completely, so you use one stick instead of four, you get no issue in understanding the rules and you get absolutely same trajectory. That’s why I don’t like slalom. Rules are so stupid and illogical. At least may be there is some logic, but no one knows it.
Racing slalom is about rhythm. Haripins are designed to break that rhythm, and catch you out with the sudden change of pace. Nothing illogical about it. It's there to test your concentration.
Watching the women ski, they look better than the guys. They seem to have more stable upper bodies and look smoother with rounder, more fully carved turns. The guys just look scrappier and are doing more j turns/stivots. The women might not be quite as fast, but they look better doing it.
You just solved 30 plus years of me being confused about slolom gates, Thank you!
I have been skiing for years but always found the vertical gates confusing. The perspective compression on the TV makes it even harder to work out what’s going on.
Thanks for the explanation. I was just watching a race where they said you can go through the hairpin either way and this helped me understand.
Thank you! thank you! Now I understand slalom 'Hair pin" and "Flush" 🤩
Thanks, I now better understand why I do freeride skiing instead.
Great video I watched a few videos on SL and I was wondering what only two blue gates vertical were after an open red gate where the skier would go through the two blue. Doing some digging it seems like that was an undergate or delay to switch the direction of the course. Good stuff finally sinking in. :)
I always though red was passing on the right and blue is passing on the left. That makes life so much easier. But then the closed gates make no sence. Good to see it is a bit different, but still hard so see on TV what's right.
Great explanation cheers 👍
I think it would be helpful to explain that “open” gates include a theoretical outside pole that used to be set in a line horizontally from the inside, turning pole. It used to be that races always included the outside pole and because the feet had to pass through the line created between the poles, it made it clear that the full gate was created by both poles and the skiing line was dictated by that full gate. But they eliminated the outside pole on slalom courses so that courses no longer look like mazes of poles. It simplifies the race for people watching. Basically courses are being set the same way we used to set up training courses because during training, it just wasn’t necessary to take the time and effort to set up the full course with both poles to make a full gate. If you have ever drilled and screwed gates into the snow, you quickly will understand why. Carrying and drilling the outside poles just isn’t necessary during training and now they don’t bother during races either.
And just to explain, we don’t actually call the poles “poles”; I’m just using that for explanation. A single pole is called a “gate”; even though technically the “gate” is also applied to the opening between the two gates (which as I said is now theoretical in slalom). And it applies whether it’s a single slalom gate or a paneled two pole gate for GS, SG, or DH. So “gate” applies to the single poles themselves and the set of gates that constitute a turn (whether single gates for SL or paneled double gates for the other disciplines). It can be a little confusing when the same term is applied to the single gate (the equipment; i.e., the pole) or the full “gate” created by the gates set apart from each other.
I hope that helps the newbies.
That is helpful - thanks. When you say that they have eliminated the outside pole, you mean that it's no longer necessary to set the outside pole, but it is sometimes used, correct? Because in the example at 4:06, there are two consecutive red poles set vertically which form one single gate, with the bottom red pole being the "outside" pole.
I FINALLY get it. Thanks.
Steve Briggs yep. Me too!
New high school coach here. At about 10:47, he shows a passage and he says it's 'legal'. However, the skier (green line) did not break the plane between the first red pole and the first blue pole. How is this legal?
A second question. Are slalom courses always set up (from the starting gate) so that the skier always passes the red poles on his or her left side of their body and the blue poles on the right? And once they miss a gate, it will be off then?
As to the second question, there’s no “side” to gates based on color. It just alternates blue and red and whichever way the course is set is the way it’s skied. Just to help explain, they no longer put the outside gate on slalom courses. Technically both feet have to pass between the two poles/gates that make a full gate, but they stopped putting the outside gate/pole for open gates that are horizontal to the fall line and they’re now theoretical. As long as the feet pass the horizontal line that extends from the pole, then it’s considered to be passing “through” the gate. For the first and last gates on the course and any vertical combinations or confusing parts, they will include the second gate/pole (which makes sense on a flush since they’re set vertically).
The explanation is that the first red gate includes that theoretical outside gate set horizontally away from the turning pole. It used to be that race courses had to include the outside gate (pole) too, but they have eliminated the outside gate for the open turns and courses are now set like training courses. The blue gate for the vertical combination is based on those two blue poles and the feet have to pass between them. There is no theoretical outside gate/pole for the vertical combinations and the two contiguously colored gates/poles make up the single full gate. As he described, one technically could go the opposite way and it would be legal, but it would be really slow because it would set one up for having to make an extra, really tight turn to make the first open gate below the vertical combination because one would be exiting the last vertical gate on the wrong side to make it to the correct side of the following open gate.
If you think of the open gates as always having an outside pole/gate that determines which side to ski around, it helps; even though those outside gates are now theoretical in slalom. In my day, we used bamboo for the outside gates just because it wasn’t necessary to screw in a hinged gate.
And just to clarify, the term “gate” applies to the single pole itself and as well to the full gate created by both poles/gates (which in SL is two single poles/gates and the other disciplines is the combination of the two paneled gates together forming the full gate). It’s confusing that “gate” applies to the single pole itself (simply the equipment) as well as the full gate created by the two poles/gates or paneled combinations of poles/gates. I used “pole” to help clarify, even though that’s not used in ski racing. It’s “gate” for both.
I used to coach Jr. Devo for the SPYDER Team in Alaska (Sports Program for Youth Education and Recreation; our Director was friends with the owner of Spyder Ski Clothing and he let them name the team that, plus we got outrageous deals on Spyder clothes!). Our head coach was former US Team coach Lex Patten and we had a former Canadian Team guy coaching, etc. I just coached the young uns though; which I enjoyed because I got to set good skiing techniques and habits early.
Just a hint, if you have kids doing windshield wiper turns with too much up and down movement, try doing exaggerated, counter rotated tuck turns to help them learn to carve. By doing tuck turns, it forces them to not try so hard to make turns and it teaches them to allow the ski to smoothly start the turn on its own. And by getting them to point their poles in the opposite direction from the direction of the turn, it teaches to not over rotate. It’s a slightly different technique than the tuck turns used for SG and DH (which use more inclination), but it’s a great drill to get kids to carve their skis without excess up and down movements. And since over rotation is common in young racers, instilling counter-rotation is fundamental technique.
This is it! Thanks!
Thank you so much. Cheers. :-)
This 13min rule explanation video can be summarized in just one sentence: cross every pair except when the upper one and its leading one are of the same color.
Cool. Thx.
thank you
Why not to have all closed gates avoid confusion?
Thanks for explanation btw. Over 40 years on the Earth and was always confused by that when watching on TV
That’s how it used to be done. All gates consisted of two poles/gates and the “open” gates actually had the other pole/gate set about 15 ft horizontally across the hill from the turning gate. Both feet had to pass through the full gate made by the two gates/poles. But it created such a maze, they started setting race courses like training courses and the outside gate/pole became theoretical for the open gates. Once one gets used to setting and running courses on a regular basis, those outside poles/gates just become unnecessary. Racers know they have to pass the horizontal line extending from the turning gate to be considered to have passed “through” the full gate.
When I first saw it on TV I thought they just need to touch all the sticks
Basically, the rules of slalom disqualify a slalom racer when the racer misses a gate one needs to go pass or go through. Just plain and simple! You have to go past or go through the required gates!
Why, in the hairpin and flush, do they have two poles next to each other, when one would achieve the same purpose?
To help show where the boundaries for the gate are because the next gate is directly below. It helps to define the course from the skier's point of view.
@@zoestout8977 What is a control gate?
@@sngscratcher it's basically a gate that is there to provide control of where the racing line goes and the timings.
@@zoestout8977 Thank you.
Technically a full gate is created by the two poles/gates and the feet have to pass between them. But for “open” gates that the skiers skis around, they got rid of the outside pole/gate to make it look like less of a maze. When I was racing, they would put a bamboo pole/gate the same color about 15 feet horizontally away across the fall line. The outside pole/gate is now theoretical on the open turns and the use of both poles/gates is only retained for the vertical combinations (and for the first and last gates on the course). Hope that helps.
I don't understand the hairpin. The same path could be realised with 2 poles less. It adds confusion from a birdseye view. Maybe it helps athletes?
It’s because a full gate is technically created by the two poles/gates and both feet have to pass between. But since having the outside pole/gate on the open turns made courses look like mazes, they got rid of the outside poles/gates and courses are set like training courses now. The vertical combinations are the only parts that retain both poles/gates to create a full gate and all the others have “theoretical” outside poles/gates.
1
I am a cysl racer
Im so dump i thought these were the scp secret labritory rules
This seems that it's made intentionally difficult ... could be simpler ..
Only single pole slalom courses are described here, which very few races use. Even his own choice of demonstration with Mikaela clearly shows a "typical" slalom course set-up which uses pairs of gates which is what 95% of races employ. These course set ups have a completely different set of rules for proper gate passing. Why the video explaining slalom courses that basically nobody uses?
Where we race here in Eastern USA, we almost exclusively race single pole slalom. Pretty much only the world cup and continental cup races use double poles (with control gates for all open gates). Saves time and money.
Even with this explanation I don’t see why do you need this “hair pin” because you can just place one blue stick instead of double sticks and remove vertical gates completely, so you use one stick instead of four, you get no issue in understanding the rules and you get absolutely same trajectory. That’s why I don’t like slalom. Rules are so stupid and illogical. At least may be there is some logic, but no one knows it.
Racing slalom is about rhythm. Haripins are designed to break that rhythm, and catch you out with the sudden change of pace. Nothing illogical about it. It's there to test your concentration.
@@m0jest1k61 as a ski racer I agree
Watching the women ski, they look better than the guys. They seem to have more stable upper bodies and look smoother with rounder, more fully carved turns. The guys just look scrappier and are doing more j turns/stivots. The women might not be quite as fast, but they look better doing it.
Why there is no control gate explained. ;-(
Subskiptong
Painful to watch. Pick up the FIS blue book and read it.