@@kkgt6591 "First light" for Vera Rubin Observatory should be August 2024, and LISA is closer to 2040, haha. It's in the planning stages now but has been green lit.
@@kkgt6591First light for Vera C. Rubin is expected in 2024 The Extremely Large Telescope (ELT; 38m optical telescope) should be complete in 2028 And LISA (a space-based gravitational wave observatory with arm length of 2.5 million km) is expected to launch no earlier than 2037
Symptoms of life: some chemical species can arise by the action of sunlight falling on a suitable chemical soup and/or brew. There are some species which can NOT arise unless there is intelligence and the ability to manipulate things at the molecular level, or the ability to perform chemistry. Analysing chemical species found in the atmospheres of planets would indicate whether blind chemistry or intelligence is at work.
Your channel is so refreshing because of your attention to accuracy. Also your resilience to people with loaded questions is awesome to watch. Thank you sir.
@@simonmultiverse6349 The Inverse Square Law rules OK! You're never going to hear anything. Radio tx/rx is a human construct, and is a very wasteful means of communication. Extraterrestrial beings with long beards, bringing their own gravestones along. How many 40,000 years old Extraterrestrials have you seen?
Sometimes loaded questions are necessary to push back against dogmatic groupthink, and to challenge bad assumptions we have regarding the nature of the universe and the mysteries of life beyond Earth…
Loving these interviews!! This is some of the best astronomy content anywhere. Any chance of doing a “great observatories” series? Interviews with Rubin, GMT, ELT scientists?
Vera C. Rubin Observatory: We have --- ENTIRELY BY ACCIDENT --- discovered two interstellar objects: I/Oumuamua and I/Borisov. These discoveries were made by accident, before the Vera C. Rubin Observatory, therefore one has to ask... what interstellar objects are we going to discover in a year or two when we start sifting through the data from the Vera C. Rubin Observatory? We will also find new things in our solar system.
Thank you so much for this update on the Vera Rubin Observatory. I had the privilege of visiting The University of Arizona Mirror Lab in 2009 when the 8.4 meter glass for this telescope (which contains both the primary and tertiary mirrors in a single casting) was being prepared for grinding and polishing. It had been removed from the furnace, the foam cores (that created the reverse side honeycomb) removed and the mounting brackets for the polishing machine bonded to the underside. I have pictures of both the mirror laying horizontal in its frame and the underside. Can't wait for First Light and your podcast with the first data stream!
"The inclination for everybody to look up and wonder is the most natural thing. And it's what makes astronomy the most beautiful science because it belongs to everybody and it speaks to everybody. You don't need a laboratory to wonder." Dr. James Davenport 💯 Beautifully said!
Inspiring! Lots of great content and enthusiasm. It has me juiced for the LSST era. Still my fave scientific observation was from Dr Davenport regarding us putting objects into space - "Space is super-duper hard"
Love the idea of a live stream during the first hour of light... watching the NSF stream when dart impacted live with the project head was soooo cool. Seeing the reactions on everyone's face as the images came down was priceless.
Yes, not only do we have to know WHERE to look and what frequencies to monitor, but most importantly, WHEN to listen. Even the first two elements is a prodigious task, but it does no good if the target is not transmitting at the time. Its a wonder we would ever receive ANYTHING. Having a "timer" would be great.
Well! About time for LSST get going. I’ve been following for a while. Patient but also eager. After he spoke of doubling the number of in-solar objects in a few months of operation…. that is almost beyond belief.
Holy S@#$ Holy S%&@ Holy S^!@ I've been following this for a long time and I'm even more excited than when I first heard of LSST. I cannot wait for every bit of information coming our way 😲😲 Great interview, thank you to the both of you!
I'm very late to this interview - I'm still catching up on all of Fraser's past content - but man, Dr Davenport is an EXCELLENT guest. He's erudite, warm, very knowledgeable and he's very engaging as a speaker. For my money, the likes of Dr Davenport and Adam Frank are unstoppable as science communicators and of 'boosters' for the field. Thanks for the video, Fraser.
My new favorite "Go-To" for all my Space News. Stumbling upon Fraser Cain about a month ago....has been one of the greatest moments in my journey to learn all i can about Space. EDIT: had to correct a spelling error. Edit #2: another spelling error!!! 🤣
I just discovered Fraser a month or two ago and love this channel, too! May I also mention Anton Petrov is also a great youtube channel. He is also honest, accurate, and no clickbait videos ever.
I understand that the evil aliens on planet axolotol use this approach to “fish for suckers”: they set off a supernova to get your attention, flash a signal, and if you signal back, you end up on the dinner table. It’s said to be the best fun in the Universe - if you’re an axolotolian.
It's not going to happen that way, but if evil aliens do live near one they'll be alerted by our signal. What's more likely is they have telescopes powerful enough to discover our planet has abundant live. That's because they're seeing us about a thousand years in the past. If they wait until they get a signal, they'll get here in a few thousand years. It's not the problem you imagine.
I have an idea for the 'first hour of data' video: Set up a webpage or something that displays the live event stream and lets viewers vote on which events are most interesting, maybe with an optional few-word reason, as triage for which ones to discuss. (Maybe somebody will even put "Planet 9" in the reason field and turn out to be right!) If the video will be streamed live, then you can just announce where the voting page is at the beginning and put the URL in the corner or something; if it's going to be released only after recording, then you can announce the time in advance so people can vote during the first hour even though they won't be able to watch you simultaneously. I don't know, though, if the data from the first three nights will be meaningful in terms of event detection (if there's no older data to compare it to), so maybe this isn't feasible.
I had asked this question at question time , i now i find that you basically already answered it here with this interview, looking for alien techno signatures before and after super nova's. thankyou for all your great work. .
In many ways, the long-term preservation of any record of human existence beyond our planet involves factors that are challenging to predict or control. Unforeseen events, environmental conditions, and cosmic occurrences will inevitably influence the fate of our attempts to leave a lasting mark. While human intention and effort play a crucial role, the role of "dumb luck" or uncontrollable variables remains a significant aspect of such ambitious undertakings.
Fascinating video, glad to discover your channel just now! Guest really does fit the movie stereotype of the guy in the middle of innocently biting into a slice of pizza only to spot an anomaly on the screen of a radio astronomy instrument. Freezing mid bite, he swivels his chair around a few degrees whilst sliding it closer to the instruments, and begins to twiddle knobs with his other shaking hand...
The cool thing is that AGI is coming far quicker than anyone besides key insiders is expecting, and if we’re nice to it and treat it ethically, it might be willing to contribute to the science of poring over the many exabytes of data Vera Rubin will generate over its first decade of surveying.
Sometimes your episodes are way more interesting then their topic says. I just say WHOA about this one. All your episodes are interesting but sometimes they get very special 😊
Nice idea! And for the future we can also follow big gravitational events. These a really universe-wide "light-beacons". PS M101 is outside of Vera Rubin observable sky. For now we'll have to use another big one.
I remember many years ago I downloaded an application on my desktop system. It was the SETI search engine and it ran when I was not using the computer. Every so often the application would send the findings on its last packets and then download the next packets and would start scanning again. I was hoping someone would update the app and integrate AI into it. I am sorry it is no longer active. With all of the high-end cell phones, laptops, and desktop systems it would make sense to me to go forward.
@JamesDavenport - I think that would a blast of a YT episode on your channel this fall. A historic look back on the SETI @Home project, what did it mean, what did it do in terms of science, and how it helped to laid down the foundations of AI assisted astronomy, time domain astronomy, and what Vera Rubin will do in 2025 from a research astronomers perspective.
Great conversation. Fun and informative. Thank you. From someone now retired, who often has time to look up and wonder what will yet be learned in my lifetime.
What a excellent idea! Maybe we will see something from an alien civilization. I wonder if we have already seen signs but just haven’t recognized them.
Took me forever to even begin to wrap my head around the details of the proposed idea. Due to the time delay of receiving the notification of the supernova; there is almost no point in trying to signal anyone 'behind' the nova in relation to you. Unless you are a light month away from the star going supernova in which case your species probably has more pressing issues. Also very little point in sending a single that nobody's looking at because they are looking at a different part of the sky because there is an exciting supernova to look at. So there is basically an expanding conic section directly behind your planet that is a good place to send a signal. Each system has one, and the window for observing a reply gets worse the farther you go
Yes, but it could still give us thousands of targets to look at with pretty good timing. Instead of randomly scanning 100 billion stars in the Milky Way.
Question: I loved your perspective on lots of small space telescopes over very few super powerfull ones (I think it was shortly before JWST). How does Vera Rubin sit with that? Could Vera do the job of an entire class of telescopes? Will it underline the cost of choosing a handful of super elites vs. several hundred low innovation telescopes? All of the above or too early to tell? And congrats on another amazing interview!
There is something about Dr. Davenport's metaphor of playing Marco Polo when we were kids for the search for life out there that just... Really got me in the heart.
Questions that came to me while listening and biking: 1. The next paper on the super nova communication technique should be from the standpoint of "we've just seen a super nova, which stars should we alert to our presence, presuming a limited capacity for that?" 2. How fuzzy does the ellipse get as the stars move and can you account for that? 3. Is a capitalist economy the same as Roko's Basilisk? Not sure why in the third, but so be it
That is an interesting idea. Instead of waiting to receive a signal, we send our own at the stars in the area we expect to broadcast. If we do receive a signal, and find it is a radically different frequency, we could change ours.
Colleagues have suggested that I might save SETI a bunch of money, saying that I should call them and let them know I am here. Now if I were serious in generating a signal, it would be using the widest form(s) of transmission and using effective signal beaming and ultra wide sources in combination. I would also consider imbedding a time-base for referential framing.
This was a great video thanks, mind blown, clever people around. I have some great ideas myself, sadly not useful at the scientific level.. I like how the problem is becoming, are we smart enough to understand the information coming in to us.
Very fascinating. Love it. BUT.. I feel you glossed over two obvious questions/issues in the first 20 minutes which left me confused: 1) are we assuming that another intelligent exoplanet planetary race came to the same conclusion that we just did about sending a communication signal “here we are” after an astrological event? 2) What signals are we prepared to send (or not) to allow other ET life forms to discover our presence. And where do we direct this signal to?
Vera is gonna cause data overload, but it's going to be worth it just because of what it will tell us about our own solar system. If Vera reveals a new planetoid, unlike JWST, Vera will be revealing something that Mankind might someday exploit. I think the solar system science and what Vera is going to do to our local map is going to easily be her most useful and inspiring contribution.
Excellent interview. As you promised Fraser, I 'brainjaculated' in the latter portion of the video as Dr Davenport discussed the capabilities and potential of Vera Rubin. Amazing stuff. By the way, I wonder if the stellar surveying being done by Vera Rubin will amount to Astrometry, in the sense that it'll add to the work of scopes like Gaia in understanding the location and relative motion of stars?
This is going to be crazy. You have to do a live show. It will make the previous Star Parties look like you were using stone tools! As a resident of the southern hemisphere I am happy we will detect asteroids heading towards the south. Sorry Northerners and Canadians.
A really nifty idea how to look for signals from this expanding sphere. However, as Dr. James said, 'we only have to look'. Never a thought about sending a signal ourselves. So, if the aliens are in any way like us, we'll all be listening avidly for each other and never hear a thing 🤔
Super interview and very excited for the VRO now, it all sounds way too good and way overwhelming for us humans to go through... Are there even enough data storages in the world to keep this thing going? :D
When I saw the Starlink train cruise across the sky I knew immediately what it was, but my brother, he thought he was witnessing "something else" and was actually disappointed when he found out what it really was. Personally, I am in zero doubt that there is other life out there, but the one thing that I am NOT so sold on, is that there be INTELLIGENT life there too. It's only natural for us to ponder about the incomprehensibly staggeringly remote chances of us being here, as intelligent beings capable of doing all that we do. When we find life orbiting some other sun like star the odds of us finding not only life but intelligent life are not good at all, we may find many worlds with vastly different organism's on it but my bet is that we won't run into something that rivals ourselves for many many centuries.
Dr. James Davenport is F'ing clever ! that is genius level thinking, and it makes perfect sense that any civilization that rivals our own would have the same considerations as we do, the constants of reality pave the way for how to do this.
The question is, when we see a supernova are we going to send a message? Because if the answer is "no" then I see no reason to expect that anyone else will.
Dr Davenport is part way home. The biggest problem is just how much power it takes to transmit a signal that is above the backgroud noise any reciever has to look through for a signal. What we need to do this is a super large antenna dish and a transmitter on the giga-watt or even Terra-watt scale on the far side of the moon and send out a 4 or 5 bit homing beacon. Making a message that tells other beings about the timing and direction to a supernova is a hell of a task in its own right. We need to teach them our language to do that.
geez fraser you sure werent kidding about vera rubin data. its incredible. i have no idea how they can save all this immediate data and parse it, what a challenge.
If the speed of light is the speed limit and the closest star is 4 years away; then what we’re looking at is what happened 4 ago. Most of the observable stars are observed so long ago that it makes sense that we haven’t seen any signs of life.
Every time I glance over this thumbnail and title, I think "Ils vont enfin construire le Roméo Fafard !" And that tells you about my age and nationality.
I wonder if seti and others take into account that AM & FM radio and digital radio signals sound like static to each other. How do they look for tech signals in static if our tech is incompatible?
percisely. It's so hopeful but I think that having a non binarie sun and a huge jupiter but most of all it's exceptrionally rare that the planet that's in the habitagble zone happens to basiocally be a binarie planet with a moon 1/3rd the size of it's host planet, also sucking up all theseasteroids protecting the powderpuff planet that got slimey and launched us out of it's 99.99% of species already extionct. mammals are older then dinosaurs. we didn't have a chance SOO that's another filter for intelligence. :Like literally FLIGHT has evolved atleast 3 seperate timwes on this planet currently still onlife onplanet but inteligence has only evolved ONCE. Let alone language, that's just nuts ALSO we used up this oil for our tech jumpstaert.oh the magnetosphere that's another filter!! it's just uncommon we are specialo, we have a great duty to LIVE
I ran SETI@Home from almost the beginning to the end. My friends used to chuckle and tell me I was being scammed. Now they talk about the hearings in DC and wondering why we aren't looking harder? Duh! dude a lot of us have been its just its cool now......
Fraser, I just started watching and I love your videos. My question is if you were to be given two envelopes, and one said "aliens?" and the other said "simulation?", and both envelopes reveal the truth about those subjects inside but you can only pick one to learn about, which one would you pick? If you say simulation, which is what I would say, then I've just given you one that's more intriguing than aliens to you, and then you can say that whether we live in a simulation or not is the more interesting question than whether or not we are alone in the universe. Because think about it...by answering the simulation question, you would answer whether or not we are alone. If we are in a simulation, then some advanced civilization or entity created it and therefore we are not alone.
Will we start preparing to transmit such a signal ourselves, for the next such event we see? I think that's an important part of this puzzle. If we hope to notice others, we should reciprocate and *work* to be noticed!
So could you correlate the date and time of the 'WOW' signal to determine which star has the right location coordinates to be the likely source of the 'Wow' signal? For the Crab nebula supernova? Others?
Dr Davenport have you ever watched Cody's Lab? Also, the company Metalenz ... can this technology be used to eliminate the need for optics in space? Reducing launch costs immensely?
Cool technology coming for sure. As to broadcasting to other civilizations as mentioned, what would we do to broadcast our location? Or are we a long way away from the technological level required to make ourselves seen and we're hoping the civilizations we're looking for are far more advanced than us?
Ino it’s just a search away, but to us neophytes, a brief picture narrative of Vera Rubin would’ve seemed appropriate. Btw, I just watched “Don’t Look Up” preceded by the 6 podcasts explaining the motivation being climate change that would’ve been like watching a toad swimming over a tiny fire, plus the effects of all the concurrent happenings, like Covid & Jan 6th. Had you reviewed it from an astronomical perspective?
Personally, I think you should refer to us as simian intelligent organisms. However, for the rest of it, I agree.. It’s possible that other lifeforms live at different wavelengths than we do and I hope you are looking into that. They may live 1000 times faster than us. We may move so slow they don’t even notice us and they may move so fast we don’t even see them. . So I hope you are looking at more than just our bandwidth.
The idea of always monitoring the sky by multiple scopes intrigues me. Perhaps the name Starship isn't to imply "it will make it to other star systems" but to lock in the possibility that "it will bring the stars to us". Once developed, SpaceX will mass produce, just like anything else. Imagine just one, out of dozens (or thousands) being used for nothing but launching large space scopes... Daily!
Given how few space telescopes we have and how they were built to the extremes of precision at massive cost, I'm really curious how constellations of CHEAP (no more than a couple of hundred pounds) satellites would compare. I'm imagining a sensor module piggybacking on some percentage of Starlink satellites or something like that, which could be thousands of very small very cheap space telescopes delivering 100% coverage, but with reduced capabilities would it get us anything more than we have now in terms of what can be detected?
Humans will be continually building better and different telescopes until they reach the conclusion that they will never be capable of seeing "everything". Only then we will stop looking and humanity can finally breathe a sense of relief.
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
Man, what an incredible time we live in. JWST, Vira Rubin, and eventually LISA, and many more. It's a wild time to be alive :)
When are the latter 2 will be online??
@@kkgt6591 "First light" for Vera Rubin Observatory should be August 2024, and LISA is closer to 2040, haha. It's in the planning stages now but has been green lit.
@@kkgt6591First light for Vera C. Rubin is expected in 2024
The Extremely Large Telescope (ELT; 38m optical telescope) should be complete in 2028
And LISA (a space-based gravitational wave observatory with arm length of 2.5 million km) is expected to launch no earlier than 2037
Symptoms of life: some chemical species can arise by the action of sunlight falling on a suitable chemical soup and/or brew. There are some species which can NOT arise unless there is intelligence and the ability to manipulate things at the molecular level, or the ability to perform chemistry. Analysing chemical species found in the atmospheres of planets would indicate whether blind chemistry or intelligence is at work.
@@kkgt6591Vera Ruben online this time next year, LISA not until sometime around 2040
Your channel is so refreshing because of your attention to accuracy. Also your resilience to people with loaded questions is awesome to watch. Thank you sir.
I'm not saying it's aliens,
but....
A L I E N S
@@simonmultiverse6349 The Inverse Square Law rules OK! You're never going to hear anything. Radio tx/rx is a human construct, and is a very wasteful means of communication.
Extraterrestrial beings with long beards, bringing their own gravestones along. How many 40,000 years old Extraterrestrials have you seen?
Sometimes loaded questions are necessary to push back against dogmatic groupthink, and to challenge bad assumptions we have regarding the nature of the universe and the mysteries of life beyond Earth…
My god this might be my favorite interview of all time!!!!
Glad you enjoyed it. :-)
Loving these interviews!! This is some of the best astronomy content anywhere. Any chance of doing a “great observatories” series? Interviews with Rubin, GMT, ELT scientists?
Vera C. Rubin Observatory: We have --- ENTIRELY BY ACCIDENT --- discovered two interstellar objects: I/Oumuamua and I/Borisov. These discoveries were made by accident, before the Vera C. Rubin Observatory, therefore one has to ask... what interstellar objects are we going to discover in a year or two when we start sifting through the data from the Vera C. Rubin Observatory? We will also find new things in our solar system.
Thank you so much for this update on the Vera Rubin Observatory.
I had the privilege of visiting The University of Arizona Mirror Lab in 2009 when the 8.4 meter glass for this telescope (which contains both the primary and tertiary mirrors in a single casting) was being prepared for grinding and polishing. It had been removed from the furnace, the foam cores (that created the reverse side honeycomb) removed and the mounting brackets for the polishing machine bonded to the underside. I have pictures of both the mirror laying horizontal in its frame and the underside.
Can't wait for First Light and your podcast with the first data stream!
2009?? Are you sure it wasn't the mirrors for JWST? I think those mirrors were done there as well.
Dr. Davenport is really great.
Another great interview. Always makes me smile when Fraizer makes his getting his brain around a concept face.
Thank you, Fraser, so much for curating this guest and this topic, we talked about VRO recently, and can't wait for it to go online!
This is the show I have been waiting for! I am so excited for the Vera Rubin. Thanks for the great coverage
Herheheeehe me too bro
How have I not even heard of the Vera Rubin telescope? This thing sounds AMAZING
"The inclination for everybody to look up and wonder is the most natural thing. And it's what makes astronomy the most beautiful science because it belongs to everybody and it speaks to everybody. You don't need a laboratory to wonder." Dr. James Davenport 💯 Beautifully said!
Great quote. 😀
THIS is the most amazing conversation I have heard about future possibilities in a long time. Thanks Guys! :)
Inspiring! Lots of great content and enthusiasm. It has me juiced for the LSST era. Still my fave scientific observation was from Dr Davenport regarding us putting objects into space - "Space is super-duper hard"
Love the idea of a live stream during the first hour of light... watching the NSF stream when dart impacted live with the project head was soooo cool. Seeing the reactions on everyone's face as the images came down was priceless.
Yes, not only do we have to know WHERE to look and what frequencies to monitor, but most importantly, WHEN to listen. Even the first two elements is a prodigious task, but it does no good if the target is not transmitting at the time. Its a wonder we would ever receive ANYTHING. Having a "timer" would be great.
This man's enthusiasm is infectious!!!
Well! About time for LSST get going. I’ve been following for a while. Patient but also eager. After he spoke of doubling the number of in-solar objects in a few months of operation…. that is almost beyond belief.
Holy S@#$ Holy S%&@ Holy S^!@ I've been following this for a long time and I'm even more excited than when I first heard of LSST. I cannot wait for every bit of information coming our way 😲😲 Great interview, thank you to the both of you!
I'm very late to this interview - I'm still catching up on all of Fraser's past content - but man, Dr Davenport is an EXCELLENT guest. He's erudite, warm, very knowledgeable and he's very engaging as a speaker. For my money, the likes of Dr Davenport and Adam Frank are unstoppable as science communicators and of 'boosters' for the field. Thanks for the video, Fraser.
My new favorite "Go-To" for all my Space News. Stumbling upon Fraser Cain about a month ago....has been one of the greatest moments in my journey to learn all i can about Space.
EDIT: had to correct a spelling error.
Edit #2: another spelling error!!! 🤣
I just discovered Fraser a month or two ago and love this channel, too! May I also mention Anton Petrov is also a great youtube channel. He is also honest, accurate, and no clickbait videos ever.
"Exit: had to correct a spelling error."
now it is 2. No worries. It made me :- )
@@istvansipos9940 🤣🤣🤣
@@robotaholic YES!!! I'm also a follower and member of Anton !!! He's the teacher I wish i had in school!!!
TH-cam allows the worlds greatest communicators to rise to the surface.
I understand that the evil aliens on planet axolotol use this approach to “fish for suckers”: they set off a supernova to get your attention, flash a signal, and if you signal back, you end up on the dinner table. It’s said to be the best fun in the Universe - if you’re an axolotolian.
Setting off supernovae is the tricky part.
It's not going to happen that way, but if evil aliens do live near one they'll be alerted by our signal. What's more likely is they have telescopes powerful enough to discover our planet has abundant live. That's because they're seeing us about a thousand years in the past. If they wait until they get a signal, they'll get here in a few thousand years. It's not the problem you imagine.
I have an idea for the 'first hour of data' video: Set up a webpage or something that displays the live event stream and lets viewers vote on which events are most interesting, maybe with an optional few-word reason, as triage for which ones to discuss. (Maybe somebody will even put "Planet 9" in the reason field and turn out to be right!) If the video will be streamed live, then you can just announce where the voting page is at the beginning and put the URL in the corner or something; if it's going to be released only after recording, then you can announce the time in advance so people can vote during the first hour even though they won't be able to watch you simultaneously. I don't know, though, if the data from the first three nights will be meaningful in terms of event detection (if there's no older data to compare it to), so maybe this isn't feasible.
I had asked this question at question time , i now i find that you basically already answered it here with this interview, looking for alien techno signatures before and after super nova's. thankyou for all your great work. .
What a wonderful interview with Space Jesus Fraser!
In many ways, the long-term preservation of any record of human existence beyond our planet involves factors that are challenging to predict or control. Unforeseen events, environmental conditions, and cosmic occurrences will inevitably influence the fate of our attempts to leave a lasting mark. While human intention and effort play a crucial role, the role of "dumb luck" or uncontrollable variables remains a significant aspect of such ambitious undertakings.
Fascinating video, glad to discover your channel just now! Guest really does fit the movie stereotype of the guy in the middle of innocently biting into a slice of pizza only to spot an anomaly on the screen of a radio astronomy instrument. Freezing mid bite, he swivels his chair around a few degrees whilst sliding it closer to the instruments, and begins to twiddle knobs with his other shaking hand...
Watching real time updates in two years sounds so exciting‼️
The cool thing is that AGI is coming far quicker than anyone besides key insiders is expecting, and if we’re nice to it and treat it ethically, it might be willing to contribute to the science of poring over the many exabytes of data Vera Rubin will generate over its first decade of surveying.
Amazing stuff gentlemen. Thank you.
Sometimes your episodes are way more interesting then their topic says. I just say WHOA about this one. All your episodes are interesting but sometimes they get very special 😊
Nice idea!
And for the future we can also follow big gravitational events.
These a really universe-wide "light-beacons".
PS M101 is outside of Vera Rubin observable sky. For now we'll have to use another big one.
Yes, a large gravitational wave !
I remember many years ago I downloaded an application on my desktop system. It was the SETI search engine and it ran when I was not using the computer. Every so often the application would send the findings on its last packets and then download the next packets and would start scanning again. I was hoping someone would update the app and integrate AI into it. I am sorry it is no longer active. With all of the high-end cell phones, laptops, and desktop systems it would make sense to me to go forward.
I remember running that on my computers too.
SETI@ home was a great program and really gave the feeling of contributing to something really great.
SETI at Home! It was a major milestone, and the folks who designed it have helped build much of the Breakthrough SETI projects too!
@JamesDavenport - I think that would a blast of a YT episode on your channel this fall.
A historic look back on the SETI @Home project, what did it mean, what did it do in terms of science, and how it helped to laid down the foundations of AI assisted astronomy, time domain astronomy, and what Vera Rubin will do in 2025 from a research astronomers perspective.
Proper interview, thanks james and fraser
Excellent interview, I was already excited about Vera Rubin before, even more so now.
Another great broadcast from the direction of the GCA ! I shall research Vera Rubin further !
Great conversation. Fun and informative.
Thank you. From someone now retired, who often has time to look up and wonder what will yet be learned in my lifetime.
This guy put everything on in the "Seattle local" disguise kit
What a excellent idea! Maybe we will see something from an alien civilization. I wonder if we have already seen signs but just haven’t recognized them.
Fantastic chat fellas - a pleasure 👍🏻
So many exciting survey telescopes coming online soon.
Hi James! I'm a fellow Davenport from Washington state! I subscribed to you because I think your content is great but also we're probably family. Lol.
It's time for a Davenport reunion.
Wow, had no idea of the capability of this telescope. So cool. Between JWST and this we might really get some answers.
Yup. Wait until I tell you about the E-ELT (Extremely Large Telescope).
@@frasercainOr LUVOIR-A (I really really hope it will get funding!!)
Took me forever to even begin to wrap my head around the details of the proposed idea.
Due to the time delay of receiving the notification of the supernova; there is almost no point in trying to signal anyone 'behind' the nova in relation to you. Unless you are a light month away from the star going supernova in which case your species probably has more pressing issues. Also very little point in sending a single that nobody's looking at because they are looking at a different part of the sky because there is an exciting supernova to look at. So there is basically an expanding conic section directly behind your planet that is a good place to send a signal. Each system has one, and the window for observing a reply gets worse the farther you go
Yes, but it could still give us thousands of targets to look at with pretty good timing. Instead of randomly scanning 100 billion stars in the Milky Way.
Question: I loved your perspective on lots of small space telescopes over very few super powerfull ones (I think it was shortly before JWST). How does Vera Rubin sit with that? Could Vera do the job of an entire class of telescopes? Will it underline the cost of choosing a handful of super elites vs. several hundred low innovation telescopes? All of the above or too early to tell? And congrats on another amazing interview!
It's about 5,000 of the best amateur astrophotography telescopes taped together.
Starlink V.5😅🎉
Wow! This is so exciting! Great interview as always. And I love how the thumbnail makes it look like some futuristic science vessel. Haha
There is something about Dr. Davenport's metaphor of playing Marco Polo when we were kids for the search for life out there that just... Really got me in the heart.
great discussion! Love the idea of using a Hydrogen Alpha filter. That would be and amazing image.
Iwas gonna say - hydrogen line filter survey...but you got there anyway. Can't take my eyes and ears from this one Fraser! 🤓
So, I hope you explain a bit about who Vera Rubin is. One of the coolest figures in astronomy.
Questions that came to me while listening and biking:
1. The next paper on the super nova communication technique should be from the standpoint of "we've just seen a super nova, which stars should we alert to our presence, presuming a limited capacity for that?"
2. How fuzzy does the ellipse get as the stars move and can you account for that?
3. Is a capitalist economy the same as Roko's Basilisk?
Not sure why in the third, but so be it
That is an interesting idea. Instead of waiting to receive a signal, we send our own at the stars in the area we expect to broadcast. If we do receive a signal, and find it is a radically different frequency, we could change ours.
great discussion. very excited for these science projects over the next decade
I'm really glad you enjoyed it. Vera Rubin comes online next year. :-) The wait is almost over...
Colleagues have suggested that I might save SETI a bunch of money, saying that I should call them and let them know I am here. Now if I were serious in generating a signal, it would be using the widest form(s) of transmission and using effective signal beaming and ultra wide sources in combination. I would also consider imbedding a time-base for referential framing.
Also why woulldn't you purposely make it blend into the noise with hard encryption and/or camouflaging techniques
This was a great video thanks, mind blown, clever people around. I have some great ideas myself, sadly not useful at the scientific level..
I like how the problem is becoming, are we smart enough to understand the information coming in to us.
Very fascinating. Love it. BUT.. I feel you glossed over two obvious questions/issues in the first 20 minutes which left me confused: 1) are we assuming that another intelligent exoplanet planetary race came to the same conclusion that we just did about sending a communication signal “here we are” after an astrological event?
2) What signals are we prepared to send (or not) to allow other ET life forms to discover our presence. And where do we direct this signal to?
Vera is gonna cause data overload, but it's going to be worth it just because of what it will tell us about our own solar system. If Vera reveals a new planetoid, unlike JWST, Vera will be revealing something that Mankind might someday exploit. I think the solar system science and what Vera is going to do to our local map is going to easily be her most useful and inspiring contribution.
That will be AMAZING time when Vera Rubin starts observing!
Great interview! Looking forward to 2025 1st hour Vera Rubin live stream! Where is the TH-cam stream reminder?
I'll keep you posted.
Thank you again Mr. Cain for an awesome interview. I for one enjoy your content, and your various subjects and topics. Loyal fan.
This man is awsome and Brillient....more than cool...
Excellent interview. As you promised Fraser, I 'brainjaculated' in the latter portion of the video as Dr Davenport discussed the capabilities and potential of Vera Rubin. Amazing stuff.
By the way, I wonder if the stellar surveying being done by Vera Rubin will amount to Astrometry, in the sense that it'll add to the work of scopes like Gaia in understanding the location and relative motion of stars?
This is going to be crazy. You have to do a live show. It will make the previous Star Parties look like you were using stone tools!
As a resident of the southern hemisphere I am happy we will detect asteroids heading towards the south. Sorry Northerners and Canadians.
Hah, I'll keep an eye on their data formats and think of a way we could do it.
A really nifty idea how to look for signals from this expanding sphere. However, as Dr. James said, 'we only have to look'. Never a thought about sending a signal ourselves. So, if the aliens are in any way like us, we'll all be listening avidly for each other and never hear a thing 🤔
Super interview and very excited for the VRO now, it all sounds way too good and way overwhelming for us humans to go through... Are there even enough data storages in the world to keep this thing going? :D
Yes, but developing this storage system was one of the big engineering challenges developed with the observatory.
When I saw the Starlink train cruise across the sky I knew immediately what it was, but my brother, he thought he was witnessing "something else" and was actually disappointed when he found out what it really was. Personally, I am in zero doubt that there is other life out there, but the one thing that I am NOT so sold on, is that there be INTELLIGENT life there too. It's only natural for us to ponder about the incomprehensibly staggeringly remote chances of us being here, as intelligent beings capable of doing all that we do. When we find life orbiting some other sun like star the odds of us finding not only life but intelligent life are not good at all, we may find many worlds with vastly different organism's on it but my bet is that we won't run into something that rivals ourselves for many many centuries.
Dr. James Davenport is F'ing clever ! that is genius level thinking, and it makes perfect sense that any civilization that rivals our own would have the same considerations as we do, the constants of reality pave the way for how to do this.
Well, I don't mind Vera being lord god king queen of all science since the big bang. She surely earned it.
The Rubin gives me the Willie's
To capture such large swaths of the sky...
That catalog will pay in incredible dividends in time
Love this guy!
The question is, when we see a supernova are we going to send a message? Because if the answer is "no" then I see no reason to expect that anyone else will.
Simple yet, clever endeavor.
Dr Davenport is part way home. The biggest problem is just how much power it takes to transmit a signal that is above the backgroud noise any reciever has to look through for a signal. What we need to do this is a super large antenna dish and a transmitter on the giga-watt or even Terra-watt scale on the far side of the moon and send out a 4 or 5 bit homing beacon. Making a message that tells other beings about the timing and direction to a supernova is a hell of a task in its own right. We need to teach them our language to do that.
really good topic today thanks Fraser :)
geez fraser you sure werent kidding about vera rubin data. its incredible. i have no idea how they can save all this immediate data and parse it, what a challenge.
Great conversation!
Question: Which type of telescope could exclusively watch a few hundred thousand stars?
This guy has really grown on me! Thank you and keep up the great work. MH
Glad you enjoyed it
If the speed of light is the speed limit and the closest star is 4 years away; then what we’re looking at is what happened 4 ago. Most of the observable stars are observed so long ago that it makes sense that we haven’t seen any signs of life.
this has me super excited!!
Every time I glance over this thumbnail and title, I think "Ils vont enfin construire le Roméo Fafard !" And that tells you about my age and nationality.
Great interview, great dude, Great subject.
I wonder if seti and others take into account that AM & FM radio and digital radio signals sound like static to each other. How do they look for tech signals in static if our tech is incompatible?
percisely. It's so hopeful but I think that having a non binarie sun and a huge jupiter but most of all it's exceptrionally rare that the planet that's in the habitagble zone happens to basiocally be a binarie planet with a moon 1/3rd the size of it's host planet, also sucking up all theseasteroids protecting the powderpuff planet that got slimey and launched us out of it's 99.99% of species already extionct. mammals are older then dinosaurs. we didn't have a chance SOO that's another filter for intelligence. :Like literally FLIGHT has evolved atleast 3 seperate timwes on this planet currently still onlife onplanet but inteligence has only evolved ONCE. Let alone language, that's just nuts ALSO we used up this oil for our tech jumpstaert.oh the magnetosphere that's another filter!! it's just uncommon we are specialo, we have a great duty to LIVE
Wow Astronomy really has reached a new golden age
An excellent idea! Bravo!
Oh boy, I can see this idea being used for the next Super Ball advert 🏈
What about starting with a past signal, like the WOW signal and looking for supernova around that time?
Ooh, clever idea
I realy like the idea of having a live straem watching the alart strem of Vera Rubin.
Yeah, me too. That would be fun... once.
I ran SETI@Home from almost the beginning to the end. My friends used to chuckle and tell me I was being scammed. Now they talk about the hearings in DC and wondering why we aren't looking harder? Duh! dude a lot of us have been its just its cool now......
Hah, they've been crunching SETI data for decades now. It's a shame they shut down the network. It was doing a lot of good citizen science.
Fraser, I just started watching and I love your videos. My question is if you were to be given two envelopes, and one said "aliens?" and the other said "simulation?", and both envelopes reveal the truth about those subjects inside but you can only pick one to learn about, which one would you pick? If you say simulation, which is what I would say, then I've just given you one that's more intriguing than aliens to you, and then you can say that whether we live in a simulation or not is the more interesting question than whether or not we are alone in the universe. Because think about it...by answering the simulation question, you would answer whether or not we are alone. If we are in a simulation, then some advanced civilization or entity created it and therefore we are not alone.
I'd take aliens.
Will we start preparing to transmit such a signal ourselves, for the next such event we see?
I think that's an important part of this puzzle. If we hope to notice others, we should reciprocate and *work* to be noticed!
So could you correlate the date and time of the 'WOW' signal to determine which star has the right location coordinates to be the likely source of the 'Wow' signal? For the Crab nebula supernova? Others?
Dr Davenport have you ever watched Cody's Lab? Also, the company Metalenz ... can this technology be used to eliminate the need for optics in space? Reducing launch costs immensely?
Cool technology coming for sure. As to broadcasting to other civilizations as mentioned, what would we do to broadcast our location? Or are we a long way away from the technological level required to make ourselves seen and we're hoping the civilizations we're looking for are far more advanced than us?
Steady low frequencies may be a good place to look. I bet our strongest, longest radio emissions are steady at 60Hz / 50Hz of our power systems.
Ino it’s just a search away, but to us neophytes, a brief picture narrative of Vera Rubin would’ve seemed appropriate.
Btw, I just watched “Don’t Look Up” preceded by the 6 podcasts explaining the motivation being climate change that would’ve been like watching a toad swimming over a tiny fire, plus the effects of all the concurrent happenings, like Covid & Jan 6th. Had you reviewed it from an astronomical perspective?
Personally, I think you should refer to us as simian intelligent organisms. However, for the rest of it, I agree.. It’s possible that other lifeforms live at different wavelengths than we do and I hope you are looking into that. They may live 1000 times faster than us. We may move so slow they don’t even notice us and they may move so fast we don’t even see them. . So I hope you are looking at more than just our bandwidth.
The idea of always monitoring the sky by multiple scopes intrigues me.
Perhaps the name Starship isn't to imply "it will make it to other star systems" but to lock in the possibility that "it will bring the stars to us".
Once developed, SpaceX will mass produce, just like anything else. Imagine just one, out of dozens (or thousands) being used for nothing but launching large space scopes... Daily!
Given how few space telescopes we have and how they were built to the extremes of precision at massive cost, I'm really curious how constellations of CHEAP (no more than a couple of hundred pounds) satellites would compare.
I'm imagining a sensor module piggybacking on some percentage of Starlink satellites or something like that, which could be thousands of very small very cheap space telescopes delivering 100% coverage, but with reduced capabilities would it get us anything more than we have now in terms of what can be detected?
Thanks so much for your channel. Our only problem: “Marco?”… (5 billion years later…) “Polo!!”
Humans will be continually building better and different telescopes until they reach the conclusion that they will never be capable of seeing "everything". Only then we will stop looking and humanity can finally breathe a sense of relief.
...a ten year time lapse of the universe would be awesome.
Maybe someone can do a timelapse of all the supernovae going off, or the asteroids zipping around.
Great interview Fraser. Another exciting telescope coming online in less than a year!! 🎉
The widening sky will be the next limit!
Fabulous talk !!
Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it.