Better a cycle path that retains the old bridges and victorian buildings, (Google the Flitch Green: Bishop's Stortford to Braintree), than a housing estate. At least there is always the option to reinstate one day.
As much as I enjoy a local cycle route which is half canal towpath and half ex-railway, I do like it when a railway keeps running. I don't like things closing down. Every time I cycle past the one remaining platform on that line, I'm tempted to either ride up one end of the platform and down the other, or actually pull up to the platform like a train. There's usually someone sitting there though. 😅
And it's still clear from the street that there were once two entirely separate stations with adjacent buildings. Also true of some of the District Line stations further west where they meet the Piccadilly Line of course.
Usually, railway tunnels end up being used as walkways/cycle-tracks after they’re abandoned. This is the exact opposite. A foot tunnel that is now used for a railway.
When I was in university there in the late '80s, the East London Line was fantastic. It had all the old trains on it, complete with maps. It was like a time capsule. I really liked going on it, though watching the water running down the walls was a bit iffy.
I went on it a few times in the late fifties when we used to go exploring the docks. It was positively Dickensian, and as you say the water dripping down the walls at Wapping was quite spooky. I may have it wrong but i seem to remember the station at Shadwell as nothing more than a tin shack.
My favourite memory on the East London line was an announcement by the driver one Sunday morning on my way to Shoreditch: “Great news! London Transport has approved the use of footstools on the East London Line. But, until they’re delivered, please remember to keep your feet off the seats!”
The East London line is very much like Jago's channel; beer reviews failed, model railways failed, but given a little time and love he has found his feet. And hopefully he will see many more years of service.
Used to be my home station when I lived there in the 90’s. Just a few minutes walk away or, if it was a nice day, I’d take the longer walk up to Shadwell.
A major controversy in the 1990s was London Underground's plan to repair and leakproof the tunnel by covering the inside with concrete, thus hiding the original brickwork completely. This eventually happened, but a section was left untreated at one end so that a section of the brickwork could still be seen
#CaptainCalculus: Good to see TINTIN getting some love in the form of your profile picture! Always loved the animated series from HBO. That was my 1st introduction to the world of TinTin.😎🇵🇷🇺🇸📽🗽🦂
5 things to love about Jago Hazzard: 1. Informative 2. Trains 3. Not always Tube in "Tales from the Tube" 4. Can't seem to take a breath 5. Dad puns You're great. How did i not find out about your channel just 3 months ago??
St Mary's curve initially closed to passenger traffic only. It stayed open for stock transfers to/from Neasden until the line was taken over by London Overground.
The East London Line was the first underground line to get the current London Underground wide radio system operational: each line had its own system prior to this. Six months after getting it all working it became part of London Overground!!!! Still have good memories of hopping on and off the trains in the middle of the night switching between old and (then) new radio units in New Cross Depot during trials.
Interesting that, seeing as it was known they’d close it, is there a reason why they bothered with the replacement radio system? There’s probably a perfectly sensible reason I’m missing(!)
@@fetchstixRHD I think it was contractual: can't get paid if the job is not done! i.e. when the contract was drawn up it was not known the the East London Line would become part of London Overground. It was also thought that a short line such as the ELL would be a good test bed prior to commissioning the other lines - the Waterloo and City line was not considered for trials due to the complexity of the system in respect to other lines at Waterloo and Bank.
Oh superb. I’ve always peered desperately outside the window whenever running through Rotherhithe/Wapping, to try and catch some glimpse of the Brunels great achievement _(Brunel, de la Billiére, Farage... those Huguenot families and their disproportionate effect on English life, eh?)..._ coming hot on the heels of the last episode this is the ideal coda.
The St. Mary's curve may have been closed to passenger traffic, but the tracks were not removed completely until 2006. It was a loop used for engineering train and rolling stock, as a way to get trains onto the East London line. I have walked this section many times over the years I had worked on the underground and I have even been inside the disued St. Mary's station.
What I would say though is that the line did have a sort of spooky and atmospheric character to it, when it was part of the Tube. 1938 tube stock even ran on the line for a couple of years in the mid 1970s! D78 stock also ran the service from 1985-87, while the A60/62 stock trains were being converted to One person operation.
I agree with this comment. I used to go to Goldsmith's College at New Cross from 1975 to 1977, and the trains on this line looked so squat and unusual compared to those on most other lines. At the time I wondered if the tunnels were too low to allow anything larger to run, but I now see that this was not the case. Anyway, thanks JH for a simply Wapping tale.
I used this line in the 1970's a lot at week-ends as I used to work as a pianist in the New Cross Inn. The trains were of very old stock on that line and they were almost square in design. At Wapping water leaked in and one could always hear and visibly see the trickle of water through the wall at the far end of the platform from the Thames. For over 90 years it was pumped out with an electric pump. It could have been plugged but it was thought that if it was then pressure would build up and more water would cascade into the station with catastrophic results.The line had a poor service and trains irregular. It also had a very spooky feel when travelling on that section of line. There was always a smell of extreme dampness, dank and even sea weed. I read some years ago on the history of Whitechapel that dead bodies were transported by special train from St Mary's Hospital late at night. If Jago could elaborate on that then that would be interesting and with his vast and enthusiastic knowledge he could offer an opinion. Peter London UK
3:13 During the period discussed, the charitable Victorian educational establishment for destitute boys, pictured, _immediately to the right of Whitechapel station (red brick, gothic lintels),_ is where the Coroner’s Inquests for the “Jack the Ripper” murders took place.
We ended up with lots of duplicate lines all over the South East. But the curious thing is that a lot of them are rather useful nowadays. It was said that the Southern Railway had several hundred different possible route combinations from London to Dover - very useful in WW2 if bombs blocked the line. Now they mainly carry commuters. Even the ridiculous SER Chatham Central branch (closed 1911) has a legacy - the new bridge they built over the Medway now carries the traffic from the original LCDR line. And the LCDR foundations now carry the road bridge.
Thank you for that Jago - I remember waiting at Wapping station on many a cold morning to go to school and eventually to work throughout the late 70s and early 90's. It was very run down and damp and all you heard was the sound of running water, which often convinced us that the Thames was about to pour in as any moment. I recall they had two lifts, which it still does, but were manually operated by a member of staff, so usually only one of lifts were in action. We would often race the lift by using the stairs (we were a lot younger and fitter then!) There was no dot matrix next train board and there was a sense of excitement when you could see the lights of the train at Rotherhithe station. It was the life line for people of Wapping at time with just one very sporadic bus service in and off the island, long before it became a "lovely" place to live.
ikr? So short-sighted. Particularly wiping that spur to Liverpool Street, given how much Cockney “barrow boy” types would come to dominate City staffing in the late 70s, through the 80s and 90s -before being replaced by college drones managing Excel spreadsheets. Would’ve been an ideal commuter route. I wonder how much the decision to decouple the mainline connections into the southern counties, at New Cross and New Cross Gate, was the result of East Enders no longer taking their summer holidays working in the fields picking hops. The only vacations they’d ever got for generations.
@@michaeljames4904 Believe it or not, "Hopping" was still a thing in my youth. Most went by coach from the East End. People in my street still kept a hopping pot hanging from the back wall, used to prepare communal meals. The accomodation hadn't improved even in the late sixties. Corrugated iron huts mostly. So, in fact, I did know what the Elephant and castle was, and had actually seen the Old Kent Road by the time I was 5 years old! Ta.
Standing on the original Shoreditch platform and looking past the stop blocks one could see trains heading into and out of Liverpool Street on the GE main line. In some ways a pity the connection wasn't reinstated.
They make a barking puffing sound under load. As they still work on the Bluebell, Kent & East Sussex and Isle of Wight heritage lines you can hear this for yourself.
2:37 They may officially be classified as A1s (no relation to THOSE A1s) & most may refer to them as Terriers, but my inner child will always react the same way when I see one: 'Stepney!' Good timing with this as ever cracking vid, Jago; finally got around to watching the Thames Tunnel vid last night lol
Years ago the best way to get from south of the river to Stepney was through the Rotherhithe tunnel on the 82 bus. Later on with the demise of the 82 we poor unfortunates who were sent to devils island AKA Tilbury had to hitch a lift through the tunnel every day to catch a train from Stepney east to Tilbury
The good old Old Metropolitan Line. I remember it well from when I travelled from our school sports ground in Grove Park to home: Grove Park to New Cross, New Cross to Whitechapel and Whitechapel to Upney. Thanks for posting.
I remember the East London Line back in the 70s using old deep tube stock trains but with only 4 or 5 (?) coaches. I can also remember it seeming very run down then, almost semi-derelict and dirty with some long gaps in services at the two southern termini.
So that’s why they are called Terriers! Great video; I worked in London briefly in the mid 2000s and on my daily commute watched the work at new cross for the overground - I must take a trip on it at some point
Jago - Excellent video ~ all of the expected wisdom, wit, words and wonderful illustrations! This one reminded me of how, decades ago, when the East London line was a neglected sad thing, I was with a fellow railway enthusiast pal at Rotherhithe. A north-bound train stopped, and the motorman flung open his door, saying “I know you’re a couple of railway nutters, so jump in!” And so we rode in his cab under the Thames to Wapping! Some memories stay with you.
My late father started his rail career at North Kent Jnc, on the night of the disaster he ran all the way down the line as all signalboxes were turned to red and power cut off one of the first few arrivals at the destruction there, he very nearly quit BR after all that chaos and never got any support from BR other than some time off "to recover" but to be fair when he mentally broke down in the sixties they were pretty understanding and when he was able to work they moved him out of London to Sole St box where he worked the boxes up and down the Kent lines til the late 70's where he got D grade relief at Elmers End and back to London we went lol
No Old Kent Road footage? Criminal 🤣🤣🤣 Really liked this one having travelled on the East London Line circa 2005 and thinking then what a strange little line it was. It was good to have clarification of when it actually closed and had searched for this in other TH-cam videos and didn't find a clear answer. Thanks for all your work and the tremendously good job you do. Your cockney tale could of done with some rhyming slang. 🙏❤️
I remember studying at Mile End and sometimes changing trains a Whitechapel (District/H+C) for almost the entire time I was studying there (4 years), the East London Line Platforms (Overground hadn't come round yet) were sealed off. They opened briefly, then closed again.
Thank you for producing the sequel so quickly. I have for many years been a regular traveler to Hoxton (a new railway station) and you also answer here why Shoreditch was moved. I have more recently travelled to Surrey Quays a few times, through said tunnel, on my visits to London. So this is nicely putting the jigsaw puzzle of the railway infrastructure within in this area together for me - thank you 🙏
Do you remember when the east London line had old metropolitan line trains running on it. I used to use the line to get to the old Shoreditch station where I was living at the time. Sweet memori3s 🥰
The overground is a very useful line(s). Have you considered checking out the abandoned tunnel in Sydenham Hill woods? It was for one of the lines that ran to Crystal Palace
I used to use the old Shoreditch station in the 1970s - past the buffers you could still see the lines going towards Liverpool Street. Someone told me that that that link was used for troop trains in WW2. I also got to walk through the tunnel during the conversion to Overground standards.
There was also the massive controversy in the 1990s over 'shotcreting' the Thames Tunnel to make it stronger, and the 1995-98 closure of the line while it was done.
oh so THAT'S what that is!! I live about a minute's walk away from the smoke vent at 2:53 and I've always wondered my the overground needed special vents!
In the early 90s when I first worked on The London Under Ground, I installed a lot of cable post between Surrey Quays and New Cross with S&E. Later years , maintain tunnel telephone line.
Glad you managed to get the optical illusion of trains pulling in on the north bound platform at Wapping. It looks like the train is descending into the station.
If London Broad Street still exist then the East London Line would of had a spur from Hoxton and Shoreditch with a elevated viaduct being built then dive down to terminate at Broad Street. And the East London Line should extend one stop south from Norwood Junction to East Croydon. And a new Overground station in Millwall called New Bermondsey which the line goes over Surrey Canal Road and is called South London Line to Clapham Junction. And would of had a terminus at Surrey Quays.
@@highpath4776 OK Your trains can run that way but dibs mine go Peckham Rye, Clapham Junction, Barnes, Key Bridge, Brentford and Southall. I've had my orange crayon out and coloured in the route. From Southall? Express to Mornington Crescent of course.
It took a while but the East London Line is finally doing what it was built to do. As usual; give folks a decent train service and they will use it.👍👌😁
Another great video - again, just shows what a great asset the Overground has become for London. BTW, lovely pic of the F-stock at 4:46 - I never saw them on the line (though there was a period when it was run by G/H/K clerestory stock). F-stock were an intriguing mix of art deco elegance, and austerity - shame no one thought of preserving a unit. They'd make a good subject for a video - except that I don't think anyone filmed ever them!
I used to live in Wapping when they were working on the line in the late 90s. At the time it was easier for work to walk to Shadwell DLR and go to Tower Gateway or Bank, depending on the job at the time. Very convenient, but I didn't really use the East London line until I moved to Surrey Quays. Lots of fond memories 😊
I honestly love the story of the East London Line and what it has become today. When my family moved here in 1990, and even when I came along several years later, it was in the late stages of its LU era complete with its own orange colour on the map. Even as a child I could see it was an oddity on the tube map; almost entirely isolated from the rest of the network, and it didn't go into Zone 1 at all. It was short but didn't seem to go anywhere too essential like the Waterloo & City line. The later DLR and Jubilee Line connections certainly helped a bit but, still - it certainly was an oddity as you say. It very much felt like the runt of the Underground - the pre-NSE Marylebone of the network, if you will, the underdog line - and to be honest in a worse timeline I feel like it would have simply been dismantled completely and turned into a bicycle path or maybe a road tunnel (especially learning later of its operational and financial difficulties.) And that would have been a damn shame (especially with the East generally having worse connections, both to the City and across the river.) It would have been ironic too given how the Thames Tunnel started out, and to see such an amazing engineering feat squandered like that would have been a shame in and of itself. It's actually the Tube line that was by far the most local to me, and well its short extent and spotty service meant it use cases were limited for us - my parents would have used it over the years living here, especially early on, but I don't really recall doing so myself outside of a couple of times. It could always have been so much better as originally envisioned, but instead it seemed like it was destined to remain that way and slowly cut back further and further until the failings resulting intentional sabotage was used to justify closing it, as so many of these things end up falling victim to. But, no - for once instead of letting it die and letting the vultures pick it apart, it was nurtured and nursed back to health. Upgraded and improved - made better than it ever was. Better trains, longer extent/more areas served, better stations, far more connections. And what a surprise - when public transport receives investment and upgrades, people use it more! I've used it fairly frequently since its conversion to an Overground line and I know I'm not alone on that; it's really quite excellent and provides some much needed connections to this part of the city. As a commenter already noted, "we all just need a little love to make us what we are supposed to be." May it trundle along for years to come. Great video!
The East London Line was my favourite line before I realised it was turned into the Overground, it is a shame that I never got to ride the line but at least the stations weren’t demolished but instead used with other railways to make the Overground.
This line really is a case of what comes around goes around. Trains from both Addiscombe and Croydon used to run over it to Liverpool Street. Now trains from Croydon use it again... If BML2/Thameslink 2 ever come to pass, I wonder what effect they may have on the ELL..
I used the Silverlink from Hackney to Silver town when it closed it only went to Stratford. I never understood why this closed it was such a convenient line and I remember seeing passenger numbers starting to grow.
@@roberthill6216 Crossrail, well they could have easily integrated the line and upgraded it. The last leg of the line had lots of interchanges. Someone told me they ripped up what was left of the line from Stratford to North Woolwich just 10 years ago surely not but what do I know.
@@rob4b I think part of the route is used by the DLR, but, Jago would be the man to ask about that! I live in Blackpool, but, have a keen interest in railways. I'm actually looking forward to crossrail opening, as I would like to go through the tunnel at one of the dock entrances, not 100% sure of it's name, but, it is near to customs house. I think....
It was taken over by the Docklands Light Railway. That enabled them to run direct services from London and extend under the river from North Woolwich to Woolwich Arsenal. The frequency is much better than the old BR service. You can still travel from Stratford to North Woolwich but it often requires a change at Canning Town. Some parts of the old line have been bypassed, e.g. to get closer to London City Airport.
Darren Bates. Jago may or not be a teacher but your teacher recognised that you were a failure and like the previous respondent I will also see myself out.
The origins of the London Underground, the rivalries, failed projects explosions etc. would make a great Sunday evening BBC drama - an Onedin line with wheels instead of waves, if you will. Cheerio.
When i went to Goldsmiths I used the East London Line quite a bit (it was still a tube line, not over ground then); however, in many cases it turned out to be faster to just catch a train to London Bridge than use the east london line.
The reason you do not have any footage of the 'Old Kent Road Station' is because it was demolished in 2002,however you can still the location with the original arches under the bridge/viaduct on the New Cross Road/Old Kent Road at number 866.
If the Rev. W. Awdry were writing this he'd say, "Then you'll become a Really Useful Railway". To me, the Overground circle is a triumph for the planners; not only does it carry several million passengers a day, it keeps them out of overcrowded central London lines and stations. The West London likewise has finally achieved its purpose. Just think how crowded the tubes would be without the Overground and Thameslink. All we need now is Crossrail ...
Great video :) I always refer to this part of the overground as the "party line" due to it linking two nightlife centres, Shoreditch and New Cross. You alway meet interesting people on this section of the Overground.
Twice have I tried to make the whole Overground circle around London on a weekend day, but I failed both times because of reductions they make over the weekends. A pity, really! It would make a nice trip!
The line was closed for several years in the 1980s or 1990s, not sure which, as the tunnel needed urgent work and of course was not getting priority funding. There was talk that it would never reopen.... but it did!
@@simonwinter8839 S I is on about a footballer (I only found that out myself by googling the name). I am on about Shakespeare's play "Othello", in which the villain Iago (not Jago) has been passed over for promotion and takes vengeance on his boss Othello by tricking him into murdering his devoted wife Desdemona. So Othello and Desdemona's marriage ends in tragedy on account of the Iago hazard, which has nothing to do with Jago Hazzard.
The was actually a Terrier called Wapping. She became something of a works joke, when first seen, as even in the 1870s they certainly weren't 'Wapping' great engines! I recall her as being No.71, and was later sold to the KESR, being named 'Rolvenden'. There, in the 30s, she was dismantled, giving parts to No.70, which was now No.3 'Bodiam' but used to be 'Poplar'.
Saint Mary's curve wasn't closed until London Underground withdrew it's services prior to reconstruction as part of the Overground. It was retained for stock transfers.
It's nice when a railway story has an ending that isn't "and today it is a bicycle path."
Yes, better than another cycle-path.
@@williamplatt1680 perheps a particularly twisted one?
@@williamplatt1680 Welcome to the future of cities William.
Better a cycle path that retains the old bridges and victorian buildings, (Google the Flitch Green: Bishop's Stortford to Braintree), than a housing estate. At least there is always the option to reinstate one day.
As much as I enjoy a local cycle route which is half canal towpath and half ex-railway, I do like it when a railway keeps running. I don't like things closing down.
Every time I cycle past the one remaining platform on that line, I'm tempted to either ride up one end of the platform and down the other, or actually pull up to the platform like a train. There's usually someone sitting there though. 😅
Whitechapel station today is hilariously confusing. Underground trains run over Overground trains and Overground trains run under underground trains.
And it's still clear from the street that there were once two entirely separate stations with adjacent buildings. Also true of some of the District Line stations further west where they meet the Piccadilly Line of course.
Wombling free
I want to cover the station in more detail - unfortunately, it’s hidden while Crossrail does its thing.
There is similar nonsense at Canada Water where you are invited to go down from the Jubilee line for the Overground.
@@eattherich9215 or canning town where you end up having to go up to go one way or down for the other
Usually, railway tunnels end up being used as walkways/cycle-tracks after they’re abandoned. This is the exact opposite. A foot tunnel that is now used for a railway.
When I was in university there in the late '80s, the East London Line was fantastic. It had all the old trains on it, complete with maps. It was like a time capsule. I really liked going on it, though watching the water running down the walls was a bit iffy.
I went on it a few times in the late fifties when we used to go exploring the docks. It was positively Dickensian, and as you say the water dripping down the walls at Wapping was quite spooky. I may have it wrong but i seem to remember the station at Shadwell as nothing more than a tin shack.
My favourite memory on the East London line was an announcement by the driver one Sunday morning on my way to Shoreditch: “Great news! London Transport has approved the use of footstools on the East London Line. But, until they’re delivered, please remember to keep your feet off the seats!”
If I worked in transport, I would steal that bar and write it on one of the service information boards, in place of those inspirational messages haha
The East London line is very much like Jago's channel; beer reviews failed, model railways failed, but given a little time and love he has found his feet. And hopefully he will see many more years of service.
The model railways have a quaintness of their own.
I have a friend living in Wapping, and used the overground regularly. It's an amazing line.
Used to be my home station when I lived there in the 90’s. Just a few minutes walk away or, if it was a nice day, I’d take the longer walk up to Shadwell.
A major controversy in the 1990s was London Underground's plan to repair and leakproof the tunnel by covering the inside with concrete, thus hiding the original brickwork completely. This eventually happened, but a section was left untreated at one end so that a section of the brickwork could still be seen
We all just need a little love to make us what we are supposed to be.
Wow Jago, you're pumping them out like sausages this week!
just don't ask for the ingredients
Thanks!
@@MercenaryPen Some re-heated contents I think
#CaptainCalculus: Good to see TINTIN getting some love in the form of your profile picture! Always loved the animated series from HBO. That was my 1st introduction to the world of TinTin.😎🇵🇷🇺🇸📽🗽🦂
East London Line! 😍 Oh you absolute LEGEND young Hazzard! 👍
5 things to love about Jago Hazzard:
1. Informative
2. Trains
3. Not always Tube in "Tales from the Tube"
4. Can't seem to take a breath
5. Dad puns
You're great. How did i not find out about your channel just 3 months ago??
St Mary's curve initially closed to passenger traffic only. It stayed open for stock transfers to/from Neasden until the line was taken over by London Overground.
And football specials for Millwall.
The East London Line was the first underground line to get the current London Underground wide radio system operational: each line had its own system prior to this. Six months after getting it all working it became part of London Overground!!!! Still have good memories of hopping on and off the trains in the middle of the night switching between old and (then) new radio units in New Cross Depot during trials.
Interesting that, seeing as it was known they’d close it, is there a reason why they bothered with the replacement radio system? There’s probably a perfectly sensible reason I’m missing(!)
@@fetchstixRHD I think it was contractual: can't get paid if the job is not done! i.e. when the contract was drawn up it was not known the the East London Line would become part of London Overground. It was also thought that a short line such as the ELL would be a good test bed prior to commissioning the other lines - the Waterloo and City line was not considered for trials due to the complexity of the system in respect to other lines at Waterloo and Bank.
Oh superb. I’ve always peered desperately outside the window whenever running through Rotherhithe/Wapping, to try and catch some glimpse of the Brunels great achievement _(Brunel, de la Billiére, Farage... those Huguenot families and their disproportionate effect on English life, eh?)..._ coming hot on the heels of the last episode this is the ideal coda.
The St. Mary's curve may have been closed to passenger traffic, but the tracks were not removed completely until 2006. It was a loop used for engineering train and rolling stock, as a way to get trains onto the East London line. I have walked this section many times over the years I had worked on the underground and I have even been inside the disued St. Mary's station.
What I would say though is that the line did have a sort of spooky and atmospheric character to it, when it was part of the Tube. 1938 tube stock even ran on the line for a couple of years in the mid 1970s! D78 stock also ran the service from 1985-87, while the A60/62 stock trains were being converted to One person operation.
I remember riding on it as a child and 1926 stock was on it.
I agree with this comment. I used to go to Goldsmith's College at New Cross from 1975 to 1977, and the trains on this line looked so squat and unusual compared to those on most other lines. At the time I wondered if the tunnels were too low to allow anything larger to run, but I now see that this was not the case. Anyway, thanks JH for a simply Wapping tale.
I used this line in the 1970's a lot at week-ends as I used to work as a pianist in the New Cross Inn. The trains were of very old stock on that line and they were almost square in design. At Wapping water leaked in and one could always hear and visibly see the trickle of water through the wall at the far end of the platform from the Thames. For over 90 years it was pumped out with an electric pump. It could have been plugged but it was thought that if it was then pressure would build up and more water would cascade into the station with catastrophic results.The line had a poor service and trains irregular.
It also had a very spooky feel when travelling on that section of line. There was always a smell of extreme dampness, dank and even sea weed. I read some years ago on the history of Whitechapel that dead bodies were transported by special train from St Mary's Hospital late at night. If Jago could elaborate on that then that would be interesting and with his vast and enthusiastic knowledge he could offer an opinion.
Peter
London UK
3:13 During the period discussed,
the charitable Victorian educational establishment for destitute boys, pictured, _immediately to the right of Whitechapel station (red brick, gothic lintels),_ is where the Coroner’s Inquests for the “Jack the Ripper” murders took place.
Just behind Whitechapel station, where the new entrance will be, is where the Ripper killed his first ever victim!
There’s a thought a Jago video with his own inimitable take on Jack the Ripper.
@@bobfountain2959 Yeah, I'd like to see his theory on Jack's identity.
@@andyjay729 It was the train driver! The location is a dead giveaway.
It seems like every corner on this channel I turn, I always run into Watkin and Forbes having a slap fight with each other.
Imagine if they had co-operated what a difference the network would have.
And I’ve barely even touched on their antics outside London.
We ended up with lots of duplicate lines all over the South East. But the curious thing is that a lot of them are rather useful nowadays. It was said that the Southern Railway had several hundred different possible route combinations from London to Dover - very useful in WW2 if bombs blocked the line. Now they mainly carry commuters. Even the ridiculous SER Chatham Central branch (closed 1911) has a legacy - the new bridge they built over the Medway now carries the traffic from the original LCDR line. And the LCDR foundations now carry the road bridge.
Thank you for that Jago - I remember waiting at Wapping station on many a cold morning to go to school and eventually to work throughout the late 70s and early 90's. It was very run down and damp and all you heard was the sound of running water, which often convinced us that the Thames was about to pour in as any moment. I recall they had two lifts, which it still does, but were manually operated by a member of staff, so usually only one of lifts were in action. We would often race the lift by using the stairs (we were a lot younger and fitter then!) There was no dot matrix next train board and there was a sense of excitement when you could see the lights of the train at Rotherhithe station. It was the life line for people of Wapping at time with just one very sporadic bus service in and off the island, long before it became a "lovely" place to live.
It is an art to be able to tell the story of the East London line in 7 minutes. Well done, Jago.
Access to South London wouldn't have been a high priority for the residents of the East end...
Tera incognita...
"There be dragons!!".
Thanks JH.
ikr? So short-sighted. Particularly wiping that spur to Liverpool Street, given how much Cockney “barrow boy” types would come to dominate City staffing in the late 70s, through the 80s and 90s -before being replaced by college drones managing Excel spreadsheets. Would’ve been an ideal commuter route.
I wonder how much the decision to decouple the mainline connections into the southern counties, at New Cross and New Cross Gate, was the result of East Enders no longer taking their summer holidays working in the fields picking hops. The only vacations they’d ever got for generations.
@@michaeljames4904 Believe it or not, "Hopping" was still a thing in my youth. Most went by coach from the East End. People in my street still kept a hopping pot hanging from the back wall, used to prepare communal meals. The accomodation hadn't improved even in the late sixties. Corrugated iron huts mostly.
So, in fact, I did know what the Elephant and castle was, and had actually seen the Old Kent Road by the time I was 5 years old!
Ta.
@@terrymurphy2032 ...when all was right with the world
Great video. I managed to walk through the tunnel when it was closed for engineering works many years ago - a once in a lifetime experience!
Standing on the original Shoreditch platform and looking past the stop blocks one could see trains heading into and out of Liverpool Street on the GE main line. In some ways a pity the connection wasn't reinstated.
Always wondered where the name "Terrier" came from, just thought small and tenacious, now I know.
They make a barking puffing sound under load. As they still work on the Bluebell, Kent & East Sussex and Isle of Wight heritage lines you can hear this for yourself.
@@frglee changed a bit when they had the air pumps fitted ?
2:37 They may officially be classified as A1s (no relation to THOSE A1s) & most may refer to them as Terriers, but my inner child will always react the same way when I see one: 'Stepney!'
Good timing with this as ever cracking vid, Jago; finally got around to watching the Thames Tunnel vid last night lol
I have done a small amount of work on Sutton's motion.
Years ago the best way to get from south of the river to Stepney was through the Rotherhithe tunnel on the 82 bus. Later on with the demise of the 82 we poor unfortunates who were sent to devils island AKA Tilbury had to hitch a lift through the tunnel every day to catch a train from Stepney east to Tilbury
Drove over this rail network from 2011 to 2016 and can say its an extremely interesting and historical railway. Great video
The good old Old Metropolitan Line. I remember it well from when I travelled from our school sports ground in Grove Park to home: Grove Park to New Cross, New Cross to Whitechapel and Whitechapel to Upney. Thanks for posting.
I remember the East London Line back in the 70s using old deep tube stock trains but with only 4 or 5 (?) coaches. I can also remember it seeming very run down then, almost semi-derelict and dirty with some long gaps in services at the two southern termini.
Ahhhhh......those beautiful 1938 red stock trains. You had to jump down into them at Shadwell as the platform was so high!
I love how all these videos connect together just like stations on a map.
So that’s why they are called Terriers!
Great video; I worked in London briefly in the mid 2000s and on my daily commute watched the work at new cross for the overground - I must take a trip on it at some point
Jago - Excellent video ~ all of the expected wisdom, wit, words and wonderful illustrations! This one reminded me of how, decades ago, when the East London line was a neglected sad thing, I was with a fellow railway enthusiast pal at Rotherhithe. A north-bound train stopped, and the motorman flung open his door, saying “I know you’re a couple of railway nutters, so jump in!” And so we rode in his cab under the Thames to Wapping! Some memories stay with you.
My late father started his rail career at North Kent Jnc, on the night of the disaster he ran all the way down the line as all signalboxes were turned to red and power cut off one of the first few arrivals at the destruction there, he very nearly quit BR after all that chaos and never got any support from BR other than some time off "to recover" but to be fair when he mentally broke down in the sixties they were pretty understanding and when he was able to work they moved him out of London to Sole St box where he worked the boxes up and down the Kent lines til the late 70's where he got D grade relief at Elmers End and back to London we went lol
No Old Kent Road footage? Criminal 🤣🤣🤣 Really liked this one having travelled on the East London Line circa 2005 and thinking then what a strange little line it was. It was good to have clarification of when it actually closed and had searched for this in other TH-cam videos and didn't find a clear answer. Thanks for all your work and the tremendously good job you do. Your cockney tale could of done with some rhyming slang. 🙏❤️
I remember studying at Mile End and sometimes changing trains a Whitechapel (District/H+C) for almost the entire time I was studying there (4 years), the East London Line Platforms (Overground hadn't come round yet) were sealed off. They opened briefly, then closed again.
Another ex-Queen Mary student? :-)
@@paulsengupta971 Yep :)
An 'Isolated Oddity' and 'The Poor Relation ' 'Turned Orange'. Are you describing my life again?
Thank you for producing the sequel so quickly. I have for many years been a regular traveler to Hoxton (a new railway station) and you also answer here why Shoreditch was moved. I have more recently travelled to Surrey Quays a few times, through said tunnel, on my visits to London. So this is nicely putting the jigsaw puzzle of the railway infrastructure within in this area together for me - thank you 🙏
Shoreditch High Street would have been in the wrong place for connection to the North London Route, alas.
Do you remember when the east London line had old metropolitan line trains running on it. I used to use the line to get to the old Shoreditch station where I was living at the time. Sweet memori3s 🥰
They even had the old maps in them.
The overground is a very useful line(s). Have you considered checking out the abandoned tunnel in Sydenham Hill woods? It was for one of the lines that ran to Crystal Palace
A week earlier and you could’ve made a passable link with the line returning from the dead 😉
The East(er) London Line
I’m here all week
Chris Hart.
You could be in serious need of Christian aid.
I also am here all week and so alone!!
@@simonwinter8839 I'm here, all weak.
@@highpath4776 weak,got it !!
I do love that you can still see the portals, and a good way into Brunel's original tunnel from the end of the platforms at Wapping Station.
I used to use the old Shoreditch station in the 1970s - past the buffers you could still see the lines going towards Liverpool Street. Someone told me that that that link was used for troop trains in WW2.
I also got to walk through the tunnel during the conversion to Overground standards.
Excellent story, a line I've always been fascinated by from a distance, to join up the dots and cross the t(hame)s was very welcome.
I'm absolutely fascinated with this line for the sole reason that it was once a full on Underground line all the way up till 2007!
Good news that the tunnel turned out to be a great success in the end. Another great video.
Thanks!
I find that your historical vids are endlessly fascinating. Thank you.
Hi Jago, by coincidece I was there today. Rotherithe to Wapping. I think they should light that section so the public could see it.
Love a Jago video!
There was also the massive controversy in the 1990s over 'shotcreting' the Thames Tunnel to make it stronger, and the 1995-98 closure of the line while it was done.
oh so THAT'S what that is!! I live about a minute's walk away from the smoke vent at 2:53 and I've always wondered my the overground needed special vents!
Another Cool episode Jago!
Always amusing. Thanks again.
I worked on the line up to Newcross when it was derelict and being refurbished in the ‘90’s. Tough graft.
Derelict? What....?
The Terrier train photo is from East Southsea branch line! I've got quite a collection of photos, maps and more.
In the early 90s when I first worked on The London Under Ground, I installed a lot of cable post between Surrey Quays and New Cross with S&E. Later years , maintain tunnel telephone line.
Glad you managed to get the optical illusion of trains pulling in on the north bound platform at Wapping. It looks like the train is descending into the station.
If London Broad Street still exist then the East London Line would of had a spur from Hoxton and Shoreditch with a elevated viaduct being built then dive down to terminate at Broad Street. And the East London Line should extend one stop south from Norwood Junction to East Croydon.
And a new Overground station in Millwall called New Bermondsey which the line goes over Surrey Canal Road and is called South London Line to Clapham Junction. And would of had a terminus at Surrey Quays.
The ELL should run through Crystal Palace to Clapham Junction, then via the flyunders to the WLL.
@@highpath4776 True.
@@highpath4776 OK Your trains can run that way but dibs mine go Peckham Rye, Clapham Junction, Barnes, Key Bridge, Brentford and Southall. I've had my orange crayon out and coloured in the route. From Southall? Express to Mornington Crescent of course.
Indeed
Great video jago, very interesting, loving the old photos, great it's found some use😀👌👍
It took a while but the East London Line is finally doing what it was built to do. As usual; give folks a decent train service and they will use it.👍👌😁
Another great video - again, just shows what a great asset the Overground has become for London. BTW, lovely pic of the F-stock at 4:46 - I never saw them on the line (though there was a period when it was run by G/H/K clerestory stock). F-stock were an intriguing mix of art deco elegance, and austerity - shame no one thought of preserving a unit. They'd make a good subject for a video - except that I don't think anyone filmed ever them!
I remember using it a few times in the late 80s. It was rather different then.
I used to live in Wapping when they were working on the line in the late 90s. At the time it was easier for work to walk to Shadwell DLR and go to Tower Gateway or Bank, depending on the job at the time. Very convenient, but I didn't really use the East London line until I moved to Surrey Quays. Lots of fond memories 😊
Jago, the warmer weather is coming. You know what that means.... yes that's right, legs.
Surprising there are many cut off spurs and connections , great information here ! Thanks jago !
Even before its renaissance, I loved it and the fact that it had proper tall stock (like the cut-and-cover lines) and not habitually overcrowded.
I honestly love the story of the East London Line and what it has become today. When my family moved here in 1990, and even when I came along several years later, it was in the late stages of its LU era complete with its own orange colour on the map. Even as a child I could see it was an oddity on the tube map; almost entirely isolated from the rest of the network, and it didn't go into Zone 1 at all. It was short but didn't seem to go anywhere too essential like the Waterloo & City line. The later DLR and Jubilee Line connections certainly helped a bit but, still - it certainly was an oddity as you say.
It very much felt like the runt of the Underground - the pre-NSE Marylebone of the network, if you will, the underdog line - and to be honest in a worse timeline I feel like it would have simply been dismantled completely and turned into a bicycle path or maybe a road tunnel (especially learning later of its operational and financial difficulties.) And that would have been a damn shame (especially with the East generally having worse connections, both to the City and across the river.) It would have been ironic too given how the Thames Tunnel started out, and to see such an amazing engineering feat squandered like that would have been a shame in and of itself.
It's actually the Tube line that was by far the most local to me, and well its short extent and spotty service meant it use cases were limited for us - my parents would have used it over the years living here, especially early on, but I don't really recall doing so myself outside of a couple of times. It could always have been so much better as originally envisioned, but instead it seemed like it was destined to remain that way and slowly cut back further and further until the failings resulting intentional sabotage was used to justify closing it, as so many of these things end up falling victim to.
But, no - for once instead of letting it die and letting the vultures pick it apart, it was nurtured and nursed back to health. Upgraded and improved - made better than it ever was. Better trains, longer extent/more areas served, better stations, far more connections. And what a surprise - when public transport receives investment and upgrades, people use it more! I've used it fairly frequently since its conversion to an Overground line and I know I'm not alone on that; it's really quite excellent and provides some much needed connections to this part of the city. As a commenter already noted, "we all just need a little love to make us what we are supposed to be."
May it trundle along for years to come. Great video!
The Jubilee link at Canada Water seemed like the breath of new life it needed
The rise, fall and rise again of the East London line.
One of the terriers, "Stepney" is on the Bluebell Railway, Sussex County, UK.
As is Fenchurch.
@@JagoHazzard Sutton I think is at Spa Valley. K&SER should have one too.
What a great story. Looking forward to giving it a try, inspired by your video.
The East London Line was my favourite line before I realised it was turned into the Overground, it is a shame that I never got to ride the line but at least the stations weren’t demolished but instead used with other railways to make the Overground.
Good Morning, Jago!
Yep the East London Line has amazingly been successfully in recent years. Pity the London Overground train repaints are ghastly.
What colour should they be. I thought the black window frames had some kind of meaning - or less washing than the white ones !
This line really is a case of what comes around goes around. Trains from both Addiscombe and Croydon used to run over it to Liverpool Street. Now trains from Croydon use it again... If BML2/Thameslink 2 ever come to pass, I wonder what effect they may have on the ELL..
I used the Silverlink from Hackney to Silver town when it closed it only went to Stratford. I never understood why this closed it was such a convenient line and I remember seeing passenger numbers starting to grow.
To become part of crossrail, I think.
@@roberthill6216 Crossrail, well they could have easily integrated the line and upgraded it. The last leg of the line had lots of interchanges. Someone told me they ripped up what was left of the line from Stratford to North Woolwich just 10 years ago surely not but what do I know.
@@rob4b I think part of the route is used by the DLR, but, Jago would be the man to ask about that! I live in Blackpool, but, have a keen interest in railways. I'm actually looking forward to crossrail opening, as I would like to go through the tunnel at one of the dock entrances, not 100% sure of it's name, but, it is near to customs house. I think....
It was taken over by the Docklands Light Railway. That enabled them to run direct services from London and extend under the river from North Woolwich to Woolwich Arsenal. The frequency is much better than the old BR service. You can still travel from Stratford to North Woolwich but it often requires a change at Canning Town. Some parts of the old line have been bypassed, e.g. to get closer to London City Airport.
I don't live in London nor do I have a clue what you're talking about but I'm addicted to you channel 😂
Such a wholesome ending, I definitely need more of those these days (and a bit of love too, let's be real)
I didn't even realise that's where A1/A1Xs got their name from! I always presumed it was cos they were small and reliable!
Are you a teacher Jago? That "failed... failed... kinda failed" at the end reminded me of what a teacher would say to me!
Darren Bates.
Jago may or not be a teacher but your teacher recognised that you were a failure and like the previous respondent I will also see myself out.
@@simonwinter8839 it was a joke!
@@DarrenBates My response was also a joke but clearly I'm a failure of a comedian.
This thread is clearly a failure all round. See me afterwards.
The origins of the London Underground, the rivalries, failed projects explosions etc. would make a great Sunday evening BBC drama - an Onedin line with wheels instead of waves, if you will.
Cheerio.
When i went to Goldsmiths I used the East London Line quite a bit (it was still a tube line, not over ground then); however, in many cases it turned out to be faster to just catch a train to London Bridge than use the east london line.
The reason you do not have any footage of the 'Old Kent Road Station' is because it was demolished in 2002,however you can still the location with the original arches under the bridge/viaduct on the New Cross Road/Old Kent Road at number 866.
Thanks, that was very interesting.🚆
If the Rev. W. Awdry were writing this he'd say, "Then you'll become a Really Useful Railway". To me, the Overground circle is a triumph for the planners; not only does it carry several million passengers a day, it keeps them out of overcrowded central London lines and stations. The West London likewise has finally achieved its purpose. Just think how crowded the tubes would be without the Overground and Thameslink. All we need now is Crossrail ...
Brilliant video sir!
Great follow up to your Thames Tunnel vlog.
I'm starting to think you are more into DPD vans than trains these days, enjoy playing spot the van in your videos!
They’re after me!
@@JagoHazzard They've been trying to deliver a package to you for 4 years now Jago. Just accept it and let their suffering end!
Damned subliminal advertising. 😡
Great video :) I always refer to this part of the overground as the "party line" due to it linking two nightlife centres, Shoreditch and New Cross. You alway meet interesting people on this section of the Overground.
I saw Shadwell on the map and I automatically said it with a Welsh accent.
imstuman.
Yes lots of people (apparently)
mistake an Asian accent for Welsh.
It's just a joke ,no racism intended.
@imstuman Absolutely
Shadwell, they said - go for it! I went for it. It had gone.
But then I always imagine Bedwyn to be in the Welsh valleys.
@@IanTindale - I remember Siadwell, 🏴but what was the programme?
Top class again jago
Interesting video Jago!
You might say the Thames Tunnel was a Wapping achievement?
... I’ll see myself out.
Great second part to the previous video!
I think the phrase you're looking for is "I'll get me coat".
@@jaakkomantyjarvi7515 Maybe I'll get my (tunnelling) shield?"
@@jaakkomantyjarvi7515 I know someone whose jokes are so bad he just says, "Coat!"
Twice have I tried to make the whole Overground circle around London on a weekend day, but I failed both times because of reductions they make over the weekends. A pity, really! It would make a nice trip!
Hi Jago. Some of the signs for the stations' names make them feel like a sub-division of Sainsbury's! And orange too!
The line was closed for several years in the 1980s or 1990s, not sure which, as the tunnel needed urgent work and of course was not getting priority funding. There was talk that it would never reopen.... but it did!
Jago Hazzard is more consistent than Eden Hazard
… and less hazardous to Othello and Desdemona than Iago.
What are you all on about.
God,I'm dense.
@@simonwinter8839 S I is on about a footballer (I only found that out myself by googling the name).
I am on about Shakespeare's play "Othello", in which the villain Iago (not Jago) has been passed over for promotion and takes vengeance on his boss Othello by tricking him into murdering his devoted wife Desdemona.
So Othello and Desdemona's marriage ends in tragedy on account of the Iago hazard, which has nothing to do with Jago Hazzard.
very good today
The was actually a Terrier called Wapping. She became something of a works joke, when first seen, as even in the 1870s they certainly weren't 'Wapping' great engines! I recall her as being No.71, and was later sold to the KESR, being named 'Rolvenden'. There, in the 30s, she was dismantled, giving parts to No.70, which was now No.3 'Bodiam' but used to be 'Poplar'.
Saint Mary's curve wasn't closed until London Underground withdrew it's services prior to reconstruction as part of the Overground. It was retained for stock transfers.