Greetings to Professor Ahmed, in one line, if one has to sum up your talk, you are arguing that the divide we are witnessing today between the Hindu community and the Muslim community has a colonial legacy to it In terms of who is an insider and outsider. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you On the Othering of Muslims. It is a pre-2014 phenomenon. But I also feel reading the govt dictates through the lens provided by Hindu nationalists Like Savarkar Could be very limiting. Tracing it back to Rajaram Mohan Roy will also Not help in understanding Contemporary politicking. Hindu hardliners are not given tickets this time around. Politics of BJP visa- versa minorities must be read through what could be called Moditva'. Where the government determines what kind of citizens they seek. They want a phenomenon that is beyond secular modern Western democracy. I am for a Democracy where a plurality of any kind is respected. I have a Firm belief in the Indian version of secularism about which Professor Rajeev Bhargava edited a volume. Politics of homogeneity Has nothing Indian about it
just a gentle suggestion to Ali - please let the speaker finish his train of thoughts (even if he digresses) before interrupting or posing a new question. Really feel the interview could have been much more stimulating and gripping if the speaker had been allowed to further flesh out his ideas, though I understand the time constraints. Irfan Ahmed's ideas are great, need to be disseminated far and wide in every classroom, every tuition centre, every household in India - particularly amongst the Muslims.
The thing I really find strange is to understand if you can openly discuss about the history of Hindus and Flaws of Hindus why Muslims get so insecure when same standard is applied to them. In my opinion it is coming from the Arab and Turk behavior where religion is held in so high regards that you can't discuss what's wrong with it and converts from the subcontinent end up following unknowingly or knowingly the same. In my opinion subcontinental Muslim should oppose any hatred but should face the realities. If a religious textbook is saying to discriminate against people who don’t have similar opinions, he/she should first have the audacity to question such practices and take the needed reforms. That’s how nations and continents (Europe) transformed by separating religious views from govt use logical debate. If you really meant what you referring to, then you shouldn’t find discomfort for such views. The amount of marginalization mindset a religion creates cannot be considered progressive or in any way sounding a victim.
Here me out brother: Critiquing Islam is fine, as long as it's done respectfully and based on accurate information, rather than spreading misinformation or inciting hatred and violence towards Muslims. This is what we mean by Islamophobia, which encompasses discrimination and genocidal rhetoric. Or Causing harm to any community, whether minority or majority, globally or locally, verbally or through futile actions like desecration of holy sites or scriptures, without valid reason under the pretext of freedom of speech. Academic criticism is welcome, but it's essential to distinguish between scholarly discourse and..(the Islamophobia industry). You can critique Islam academically all you want, and I also reserve the right to disagree with you or challenge/call out any misunderstandings or misrepresentations in your arguments. That's a separate matter altogether. There are many things i can talk about here, but let's set that aside for now. I wanted to keep my reply as concise as possible.
@@mdshahnawaz7022 thats not true, i am a sindhi and was forced out of my land by islamist because indiam muslims wanted a 'pak country' which they voted for and got 33% land on 25% of population basis, yet you lot decided to stay back. this is not your land, you have to leave. Today either by choice or tomorrow you will be made to.
During 1946 election campaign, PAKISTAN was happened to be an union of states inside Indian Union. By the way, Now why Pakistan is outside from Indian Union???
This is simply not true. 87.5% of those who voted. Digital India gets not more than 60% votes, how can you expect the voting by British India to be accurate?
The only good option for Muslim is to accept their SC-ST-OBC economic identity rather then remaining attached to religion based identity, majority of Muslim were Buddhist in past so they should try to understand and orient themselves with Bahujan ideology
Wtf! This whole BS buddhist argument made no sense at all. Sorry brother but i don’t know why i never see a comment from you people that makes any sense. All i can smell is just unwarranted hate. Are you insecure? Do you have inferiority complex? I think this rhetoric of “converted” and all has become redundant and pretty old now.
i studied under kaviraj at soas, his knowledge is limited to just bengal and he dislikes bihar which he laughs at so i sent him a casein1924 where syed hasan imam defeated sir ashtutosh mukherjee at patna high court so which he had no reply, also in his reading list on indian politics to students there was no book by a muslim author!
If Muslims were insiders before British, who killed 4 sahibzade and guru teg bahadur in Chandni Chowk for denying conversion ? Who killed sambhaji for not converting to Islam ? Why Razia and Aurangzeb (wealthy rulers) damaged the Kashi (Holiest city of knowledge) called Gyaanvapi Mandir ? If Muslims have cooperated well with Hindus , how 13% Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh have become less than 2% where there is no bjp or Hindu power ? Also for creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh, 80% Muslims voted in favour while only 20-30% migrated ? Taliban and Al-Qaeda follows Deoband ideology which is under investigation for Jihad fatwa by National Child Commission?
If Muslims were insiders before British, who killed 4 sahibzade and guru teg bahadur in Chandni Chowk for denying conversion ? >All of muslims in india share the same race as other indians. They are indians and insiders. They just embraced the religion of Islam from hinduism. Who killed 4 sahibzade? tej bahadur? Kings did. Savage kings hungry for political power using religion as a scapegoat. Who killed sambhaji for not converting to Islam ? > Aurangzeb did. Marathas were provoking aurangzeb and he did what a king would do, kill his opponents. Sambhaji was a rapi$t anyway. Why Razia and Aurangzeb (wealthy rulers) damaged the Kashi (Holiest city of knowledge) called Gyaanvapi Mandir ? > Aurangzeb did destroy temples, not because they are unislamic, but to threaten anybody who challenges him to power. there are also several firmans in Aurangzeb's name, supporting temples, maths and gurudwaras, including Mahakaleshwar temple of Ujjain, a gurudwara at Dehradun, Balaji temple of Chitrakoot, Umananda Temple of Guwahati and the Shatrunjaya Jain temples, among others. If Muslims have cooperated well with Hindus , how 13% Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh have become less than 2% where there is no bjp or Hindu power ? > That's because old Pakistan was a combination of east Pakistan (bengal) and west pakistan (modern Pakistan). After partition majority of hindus lived in Bangladesh. However Hindu population in Pakistan and Bangladesh have increased in number since partition. But in percentage they are low, because muslims have higher birthrate the hindus. Also for creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh, 80% Muslims voted in favour while only 20-30% migrated ? >Not 80% but 16% muslims voted. Also these were only elites that voted. 80%+ were against partition and didn't even vote because majority of these were uneducated. Do your research. Taliban and Al-Qaeda follows Deoband ideology which is under investigation for Jihad fatwa by National Child Commission? > Deoband has nothing to do with Taliban and Al-qaeda because most of the prominent Indian deobandi scholars have criticised extremism.
bro those were rulers. not subjects. much less(obviously NOT AT ALL, but I say for literary effect) Muslims of today. if you become Muslim today, and people start blaming you for destruction that occured 500-1000 years back. Does this make sense?
@@TMTyoutubebro lets not go 500 to 1000 years ago lets go from 1947 muslims have a reputation for slandering and blashphemy to hindu gods and temples by throwing cow meat outside temple catching people who date inter-religiously most no. of riots started by them even gujarat althought they like to blame hindus temples are under waqf althought they are older than islamic invasion of india want to enforce and have everything islamic like that one thing for sharia courts across india , hindu temples should compulsarily donate to moscque for so called bhai chara indian goverment should pay for their hajj rs 200 crore before scrapping it pay income to maulvi and not to pandit and biggest itself pakistan why do you need it if you are such good people kashmiri hindu also razakar genocided so many hindus just for having a hindu identity {after 1947} love jihad , if you truly love your other half then accept them how they are raerly seen hindu asking to convert or jains, sikhs , parsis , christians , buddhists
I have asked 6 question above , please reply each one point wise to tell why 80% Muslims voted for Pakistan and half of them never went to Pakistan? Why Hindus in Kashmir faced exodus and Pakistan have become 1-2% Hindu ? Give answers to allow a mature conversation.
@@VishalRana-cu6fk Before British Muslim held the power, During 1947 Majority of Muslims were encapsulated into smaller Pakistan and vast India was left out for much smaller Brahmin community. Pakistan is the excuse to get rid off from Muslims....
@@SadiqVidsthats the sad part that our own hindu rascals went against us like gandhi and nehru should have become hindu republic of india or also anything other than secular because we have other brother like jain , sikhs , parsis , buddhists etc but not you
Actually Both Congress and BJP are two faces of a same coin for Indian minorities.
There is nothing different Congress from BJP.
When Sharjeel Imam said it 4 years ago, everyone opposed him.
Now everyone agrees however he isn't free.
Marginalization of Islamist political voice is a great thing for civilization and a boon for democracy! Keep coping, this isn't gonna change.
no its not.
@@ЧИЛИНСУДНО agrees with what? And who
@@yushpi What the op said 🧏
Greetings to Professor Ahmed, in one line, if one has to sum up your talk, you are arguing that the divide we are witnessing today between the Hindu community and the Muslim community has a colonial legacy to it In terms of who is an insider and outsider. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you On the Othering of Muslims. It is a pre-2014 phenomenon. But I also feel reading the govt dictates through the lens provided by Hindu nationalists Like Savarkar Could be very limiting. Tracing it back to Rajaram Mohan Roy will also Not help in understanding Contemporary politicking. Hindu hardliners are not given tickets this time around. Politics of BJP visa- versa minorities must be read through what could be called Moditva'. Where the government determines what kind of citizens they seek. They want a phenomenon that is beyond secular modern Western democracy. I am for a Democracy where a plurality of any kind is respected. I have a Firm belief in the Indian version of secularism about which Professor Rajeev Bhargava edited a volume. Politics of homogeneity Has nothing Indian about it
Huh?
Neither your intervention nor your stance is clear
After 20 minutes conversation in Urdu.
Unbelievable! I am shocked! What did they do that?!? Absurd!
just a gentle suggestion to Ali -
please let the speaker finish his train of thoughts (even if he digresses) before interrupting or posing a new question.
Really feel the interview could have been much more stimulating and gripping if the speaker had been allowed to further flesh out his ideas, though I understand the time constraints.
Irfan Ahmed's ideas are great, need to be disseminated far and wide in every classroom, every tuition centre, every household in India - particularly amongst the Muslims.
The thing I really find strange is to understand if you can openly discuss about the history of Hindus and Flaws of Hindus why Muslims get so insecure when same standard is applied to them. In my opinion it is coming from the Arab and Turk behavior where religion is held in so high regards that you can't discuss what's wrong with it and converts from the subcontinent end up following unknowingly or knowingly the same. In my opinion subcontinental Muslim should oppose any hatred but should face the realities. If a religious textbook is saying to discriminate against people who don’t have similar opinions, he/she should first have the audacity to question such practices and take the needed reforms. That’s how nations and continents (Europe) transformed by separating religious views from govt use logical debate. If you really meant what you referring to, then you shouldn’t find discomfort for such views. The amount of marginalization mindset a religion creates cannot be considered progressive or in any way sounding a victim.
Here me out brother:
Critiquing Islam is fine, as long as it's done respectfully and based on accurate information, rather than spreading misinformation or inciting hatred and violence towards Muslims. This is what we mean by Islamophobia, which encompasses discrimination and genocidal rhetoric. Or Causing harm to any community, whether minority or majority, globally or locally, verbally or through futile actions like desecration of holy sites or scriptures, without valid reason under the pretext of freedom of speech.
Academic criticism is welcome, but it's essential to distinguish between scholarly discourse and..(the Islamophobia industry).
You can critique Islam academically all you want, and I also reserve the right to disagree with you or challenge/call out any misunderstandings or misrepresentations in your arguments. That's a separate matter altogether.
There are many things i can talk about here, but let's set that aside for now. I wanted to keep my reply as concise as possible.
What kind of reality ??
Explain briefly
@@SkepticalScribe3940Who decides what is respectful and what is not?
@@1008apocalypse1008 Any human with a brain except you wanna be Enthellecthual.
Well said.
India is the state if hindus . You guys got 2 countries. In india its going to be our way. Its our land and our people.
No, we got 3 countries, and we chose India. STFU sanghi.
When did we get 2 countries??
@@mdshahnawaz7022 what is pakistan and bangladesh?
@@manlike2323 who kive there bengali in Bangladesh
Punjabi , sindhi , balochi in pak there peole there land
When did we get 2 separate land ??
@@mdshahnawaz7022 thats not true, i am a sindhi and was forced out of my land by islamist because indiam muslims wanted a 'pak country' which they voted for and got 33% land on 25% of population basis, yet you lot decided to stay back. this is not your land, you have to leave. Today either by choice or tomorrow you will be made to.
87.5% muslims voted for pakistan in 1946 general election...🤣🤣
During 1946 election campaign, PAKISTAN was happened to be an union of states inside Indian Union.
By the way, Now why Pakistan is outside from Indian Union???
@@None-self union of states inside indian union🤣🤣🤣
Who told you zinn???
This is simply not true. 87.5% of those who voted. Digital India gets not more than 60% votes, how can you expect the voting by British India to be accurate?
@@reftop5065 let me clarify ...
Out of all muslims who voted in 1946 , 87.5% of them voted for pakistan....
@@reftop5065 out of all muslims who voted, 87.5% of them voted for pakistan....
FINE BUT EXPLAIN WHY MUSLIMS FROM THE REGION STILL WANT TO MIGRATE TO INDIA
to accomplish Ghazwa-e-hind
@@jatinderbhan IT IS A CRIME FOR ALLAH, TO DESTROY INDIA!
@@jatinderbhan fighting together islamisation
@@jatinderbhan😂 kuch bhi
@@BESMARTER-il4knwhich muslim from region what to vole in India ??
The only good option for Muslim is to accept their SC-ST-OBC economic identity rather then remaining attached to religion based identity, majority of Muslim were Buddhist in past so they should try to understand and orient themselves with Bahujan ideology
Wtf! This whole BS buddhist argument made no sense at all. Sorry brother but i don’t know why i never see a comment from you people that makes any sense. All i can smell is just unwarranted hate. Are you insecure? Do you have inferiority complex?
I think this rhetoric of “converted” and all has become redundant and pretty old now.
Majority of muslims were hindus in past
i studied under kaviraj at soas, his knowledge is limited to just bengal and he dislikes bihar which he laughs at so i sent him a casein1924 where syed hasan imam defeated sir ashtutosh mukherjee at patna high court so which he had no reply, also in his reading list on indian politics to students there was no book by a muslim author!
What case
british nahi yai rothschild ka empire tha.
If Muslims were insiders before British, who killed 4 sahibzade and guru teg bahadur in Chandni Chowk for denying conversion ?
Who killed sambhaji for not converting to Islam ?
Why Razia and Aurangzeb (wealthy rulers) damaged the Kashi (Holiest city of knowledge)
called Gyaanvapi Mandir ?
If Muslims have cooperated well with Hindus , how 13% Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh have become less than 2% where there is no bjp or Hindu power ?
Also for creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh, 80% Muslims voted in favour while only 20-30% migrated ?
Taliban and Al-Qaeda follows Deoband ideology which is under investigation for Jihad fatwa by National Child Commission?
If Muslims were insiders before British, who killed 4 sahibzade and guru teg bahadur in Chandni Chowk for denying conversion ?
>All of muslims in india share the same race as other indians. They are indians and insiders. They just embraced the religion of Islam from hinduism.
Who killed 4 sahibzade? tej bahadur? Kings did. Savage kings hungry for political power using religion as a scapegoat.
Who killed sambhaji for not converting to Islam ?
> Aurangzeb did. Marathas were provoking aurangzeb and he did what a king would do, kill his opponents. Sambhaji was a rapi$t anyway.
Why Razia and Aurangzeb (wealthy rulers) damaged the Kashi (Holiest city of knowledge)
called Gyaanvapi Mandir ?
> Aurangzeb did destroy temples, not because they are unislamic, but to threaten anybody who challenges him to power. there are also several firmans in Aurangzeb's name, supporting temples, maths and gurudwaras, including Mahakaleshwar temple of Ujjain, a gurudwara at Dehradun, Balaji temple of Chitrakoot, Umananda Temple of Guwahati and the Shatrunjaya Jain temples, among others.
If Muslims have cooperated well with Hindus , how 13% Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh have become less than 2% where there is no bjp or Hindu power ?
> That's because old Pakistan was a combination of east Pakistan (bengal) and west pakistan (modern Pakistan). After partition majority of hindus lived in Bangladesh. However Hindu population in Pakistan and Bangladesh have increased in number since partition. But in percentage they are low, because muslims have higher birthrate the hindus.
Also for creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh, 80% Muslims voted in favour while only 20-30% migrated ?
>Not 80% but 16% muslims voted. Also these were only elites that voted. 80%+ were against partition and didn't even vote because majority of these were uneducated. Do your research.
Taliban and Al-Qaeda follows Deoband ideology which is under investigation for Jihad fatwa by National Child Commission?
> Deoband has nothing to do with Taliban and Al-qaeda because most of the prominent Indian deobandi scholars have criticised extremism.
bro those were rulers. not subjects. much less(obviously NOT AT ALL, but I say for literary effect) Muslims of today.
if you become Muslim today, and people start blaming you for destruction that occured 500-1000 years back. Does this make sense?
@@TMTyoutubebro lets not go 500 to 1000 years ago lets go from 1947
muslims have a reputation for slandering and blashphemy to hindu gods and temples by throwing cow meat outside temple
catching people who date inter-religiously
most no. of riots started by them even gujarat althought they like to blame hindus
temples are under waqf althought they are older than islamic invasion of india
want to enforce and have everything islamic like that one thing for sharia courts across india , hindu temples should compulsarily donate to moscque for so called bhai chara
indian goverment should pay for their hajj rs 200 crore before scrapping it
pay income to maulvi and not to pandit
and biggest itself pakistan why do you need it if you are such good people
kashmiri hindu
also razakar genocided so many hindus just for having a hindu identity {after 1947}
love jihad , if you truly love your other half then accept them how they are
raerly seen hindu asking to convert or jains, sikhs , parsis , christians , buddhists
I have asked 6 question above , please reply each one point wise to tell
why 80% Muslims voted for Pakistan and half of them never went to Pakistan?
Why Hindus in Kashmir faced exodus and Pakistan have become 1-2% Hindu ?
Give answers to allow a mature conversation.
@@VishalRana-cu6fk Before British Muslim held the power,
During 1947 Majority of Muslims were encapsulated into smaller Pakistan and vast India was left out for much smaller Brahmin community.
Pakistan is the excuse to get rid off from Muslims....
did the muslim guy forget about 1947?? indian muslims knew what will happen to them
U guys are getting to vote .. ideally nHi milna chahiya tha....😂😂
But they did get the right to vote. And you can't do anything about it except to cope.
@@SadiqVidsthats the sad part that our own hindu rascals went against us like gandhi and nehru
should have become hindu republic of india or also anything other than secular because we have other brother like jain , sikhs , parsis , buddhists etc but not you
@@SadiqVids sure we can 😂 another 1947 is coming soon but this time without partition only violance... also caa is coming
@@dipoboyrogu9366 Yes but but China is also waiting for Arunachal Pradesh and ladakh 😂😂😂😂 Indonesia for Andaman Nicobar 😂😂😂😂. TEA WAS FANTASTIC 😂😂😂😂
@@dipoboyrogu9366Why are you happy about it?
After 20 minutes of conversation, it is in Urdu. Unbelievable! Why did they do that?!? Absurd!
1:09:16 what the hell are you doing here just leave. You are leftovers. My thoughts🤔💭