what annoyed me was when Joan finally stood up for herself and tried to stop being a people pleaser, her “friends” hated it because they couldn’t mooch off her anymore and when Maya and Lynn would tell Joan to stop being friends with Toni all the time, when Joan then chose to stop being friends with Toni now all of sudden it’s “Joan, be friends with Toni again, she needs you” I thought y’all said she was trifling??? 😭
Yesssss omg this irked me so much lol. how are y'all going to be upset that she finally set boundaries and try to basically tell her how to set them like huh ?? lol . She needed to get away from them completely.
If Joan set strict boundaries with Toni then Joan would most likely set boundaries with maya and Lynn and they were not gonna risk their meal ticket getting a backbone
Joan needed better friends her “ friends “ weren’t as great as she thought . She did have people pleasing issues I like when she started gaining confidence
I really wish part of Joan's character development involved her braching out and making some new friends that were more living and supportive so she could brake away from her toxic relationships.
Facts!! She did EVERYTHING for them, like housing Maya when she was going through a divorce, putting a roof over Lynn's head, and constantly having to clean up Toni's messes, and they had the nerve to curse and call her crazy. William was imperfect, too, but at least he'd own up to it and didn't rely on Joan for every little thing; thus making him her only REAL friend.
That part when Toni called her a selfish b*tch I got heated again back when I first seen that episode. They treated Joan terrible. Exactly why Toni, Lynn and Maya were always having issues/problems in their life. The only real friend she had was William and later Monica.
@@hayleymadisonllc2180 and even today people think Toni was justified saying that. Towards the end of the show Toni started getting a taste of her own medicine and didn’t like being treated how she used to treat others
@@yukijames1321 I truly love the Toni character until her selfishness became narcissistic and overbearing with Joan when Joan finally started to live a life where she had menses and happening things to do around town🥂. Hob Nobbing with the rich and famous. Whew the JEALOUSY spewing out of her pores…. That damn Maya boyyyy …… yes the ghetto girl that Joan was trying to show a better life to because she insisted on intersecting the friendship to prove she was not less than. I despised the fact that she turned on Joan and sided with Toni and was using Joan restaurant to eat but not support. When they say “typical” tu hu!!! Then the Lynn the follower …. I was just happy when Maya and Lynn sort of started to find there way and stop acting ratchet towards Joan. William was right they could have never been my friends on a day to day life
Joan was a good friend, but I despised that she didn't have a good friend group, lacked boundaries, and people pleased so much. I wanted better for Joan when I rewatched this show as an adult. I was glad when she started gaining confidence and telling people "no," I wished the writers allowed her to grow in that confidence.
We already know Lynn was a mooch but I think that the issue of Maya having no boundaries and being very unprofessional didn’t get explored enough. Maya would show up late, leave early, book all kinds of personal appointments during the day, get nosy into Joan’s business, even SLEPT WITH DARNELL on Joan’s desk, begged Joan to let her work with William and then hated working for William and tried coming back to Joan… and when William reported her to HR for her behavior (which should have been done a long time ago), Maya flips out?
I loved the character of Joan and how Tracee Ellis Ross brought so many layers to her….funny, quirky, insecure, competent, dreamer, generous, needy, and at her worst: so very neurotic and screechy. Joan deserved better friends that encouraged and supported her dreams. Allowed her space to explore her identity and poured into her. The fashions! Ms Ross was wearing Louboutins before the rest of us knew what they were. Her clothes, the accessories - hats, bags, earrings, watches, scarves….that wardrobe remains top tier!!! ❤❤
I just noticed her carrying bottega tote! I never knew anything about fashion back when I was a teen, re watching it now just to see if I can spot the fashions honey
Joan was the flyest. Hence, why she was the main character. She just didn’t see herself properly which caused her to tolerate toxicity. She didn’t know her worth.
Unfortunately I related to Joan the most as former people pleaser and had to learn the hard way after being disrespected, used, abused, and cheated on. I had to put myself first and stop trying to make everyone like me. I also had to learn how to set boundaries and go to therapy to deal with my past trauma.
Joan was the kid who gave away her lunch to the popular kids so she could be liked. Her friends were pretty awful to her. They constantly put her down, mooched from her, and felt a sense of entitlement to her time. Overall, they were more like frenemies instead of friends.
Damn, 30 minutes? You are spoiling us 😭 Joan, Joan, Joan. What do I say about this woman? Well, first, I really wish she learned to set boundaries with her friends (the only person I felt she really did this with is Toni) and seeing them walk all over her was really hard. They’re always dragging her down whenever she tries to float. She felt like the Carrie of the show, constantly making mistakes and running all over the country to maintain her relationships. She didn’t know how to balance her personal feelings with her friendships. Seriously, all these women needed therapy, they all had serious emotional issues to work through. They were all jealous of what she had, and it was so obvious. There should’ve been one episode where Joan stopped talking to them and they realized how much they needed her. Because honestly none of them deserved her friendship.
Agreed! We’re on the same page she needed to set boundaries with these women I hated the way they treated her and used her. This friendship group was so unhealthy and toxic
@@themostbeautifulisraw4561 then left her best friend to work for her best friend's future boyfriend to only be worse but consider him a friend. It's honestly real life and those types are ridiculous.
Yes.. Joan was far from perfect and had her quirks, BUT she was the most loyal and consistent friend to all of them. The season where Toni and Joan had tension, I feel like Toni wanted Joan to suffer with her for her bad decisions. When Maya insulting Joan when she lived in her house FOR FREE and was tolerated when she had such poor work ethic was crazy. Lynn was a freeloader and took the most advantage of Joan. I wish Joan left them alone years ago cuz she was their stepping stone when they all were at their lowest, but when it was Joan's turn, it was joked about or met with jealousy. I didn't see anything wrong with Joan finally focusing on herself. Toni was projecting because she failed after she flaunted her marriage/wealth in everyone's faces.
Personally i feel like Joan should have become a teacher instead of trying to run her own restaurant. I only say this because those last few episodes of her and the students were some of my favorite moments from her. Joan in a classroom felt so natural and organic and it would have just made more sense for her to do.
Yes, especially because Joan is someone who constantly gives to others. At least with children they need more love and support and have to learn to trust themselves, etc.
@RuthMcDougal She got clowned by Students already. Ya'll think this weak Personality of her's would survive? Hell Maya got thrown out too. You must not know the State of how Classrooms get run.
On a side note, while this doesn’t have much to do with the subject matter, I totally agree with your preference of seeing healthy friendships on shows, especially amongst black women. Too many sitcoms showcase and normalize toxic friendships.
I loved Joan she was a good friend even though she had her issues, like they all did but she was never malicious or evil to anyone. I like how you spoke about Joan and Toni's friendship being a tr@um@ bond because I never even thought about that and how they both had their issues with their mother I don't think I've heard anyone talk about that but it's so true. Your deep dives always make me see things differently when it comes to our favorite characters
I always felt like Joan and Toni were two sides of the same coin sometimes because of their trauma bond/mother issues. It’s really clear the first episode with Toni showing up with Joan’s ex and then Joan was willing to chat up the ex towards the end of the episode and hid him when Toni came over to apologize. There was always a bit of a competitive nature with them. When one was progressing in some way the other was jealous. The only difference as mentioned is how Joan never did anything in malice tho and the fact that she definitely took on more of the heavy load in all of the friendships.
Come to think about it. Maya was the only person to use the b word as a term of endearment. No one else-as in the educated friends, used that term. This detail highlights the background of the "hood" behavior. Maya being from the hood was juxtaposed to the girls that weren't. I like how the show touched on that term and it's use.
Joan had her quirks, however, ever since I was 7, I said Joan was the best friend out of the group. The rest of them (Toni, Lynn, and Mya) were so trifling.
Not to dismiss your idea, but when it comes to William, I think the best topic to discuss would be "daddy issues" cause he seemed to have more of that than any of the characters.
Joan was really that girl. I wish she would've saw herself as that. I grew up as a an avid people pleaser and an avoidant people chaser. Now im in therapy, my boundaries are set and I always give myself the love I want and deserve. She could've had it all and she should've.
i've been watching your profile on each of the girlfriends ladies with absolute enthusiasm. i'm so excited because i couldn't wait to hear you unpack joan! i hope you know how much joy your videos are bringing
That spoke to me loudly. I relate to Joan so much in friendships. I’m a constant people pleaser and I have a toxic parent that is ill. I am there for her, but she is overly critical, anxious and caused me to have depression and anxiety. It caused trouble in my last relationship which was creepily parallel to hers. I felt I had to shrink myself to his standards and it was emotionally abusive. Recently I was giving her her food and she told me she wanted me to marry a family friend who just visited her. She laughed but it wasn’t funny. I looked at like I’i bet you would!’ I told her to stop! However, when I moved out and got on the track to getting my confidence back, she just comes at me under the guise of ‘speaking the truth in love.. I had to stand up for myself. It’s exhausting because she doesn’t listen to understand and is dismissive. I do love my mother, but I find that I am coping by distance.
Toni may have been ‘that girl,’ but she was raggedy AF! She literally dated Joan’s man the same date they broke up, and on her bday at that! Then she came after Joan’s second man after Joan accidentally ( Dear Toni stans, she didn’t mean any malice. The operative word is ACCIDENTALLY. 🤔) blurted out that she was messing around with some other dude. For someone that’s fly she’s always acting entitled but for the wrong reasons. That friendship was codependent at best.
I love Joan, but the biggest self-administered "L" she ever took was when she quit being an attorney just because she found that fashion institute letter Lynn never submitted for her. Joan made that decision out of impulse (like many others), it was stupid and byfar the biggest character deviation from the show, that bothered me as a person. The writers could have _easily_ kept Joan as a lawyer, but she wanted to have the J-Spot as her second hobby or even a boutique to revisit her love for fashion. Why dumb Joan down like that (taking away her high-powered career and replacing it with a struggle-restaurant) while giving William _her_ dream job as Partner, instead of her? I'll never know, but I HATED it.
Well it is true to life. Sometimes people go on the path chosen for them, her parents were successful and I can see her wanting to achieve the same success, then later realizing that's not what she wanted at all.
i can understand your point….i wonder tho, if being a lawyer was somethin she realized she was GREAT at but not necessarily her PASSION, you know? that happens sometimes too
They should've let Joan be with Davis, that could've been a good match waaaaay better than Sean smh and I know they needed a way to write Toni off but homegirl was doing way too much. All of them turned on her when she finally put herself 1st!
Also yes to what you said about people stereotyping and claiming someone isn't " b l a c k " if we don't act a certain way I hate that and how people equate blackness to struggle. It's so annoying because I would hear it a lot from some family members because I refuse to watch certain tv shows that depicts us in a negative light or listen to music that degrades us and I love Broadway shows, reading, ballet etc. some people are so ignorant and just want to push that onto others who they believe are different
I’m so glad you brought up the fact black people calling other black people the N-word. I spent lots of time with my great grandmother and she use to hate to hear Black people call each other that because she actually grew up in that time when it was used more derogatorily to offend black people. She experienced the true hatred and it forever leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I hear other black people try to use the word as a “term of endearment”. Idk who woke up and decided for all black people that now the word is not bad, but they don’t speak for me. Just because some black folk think it’s okay, doesn’t make it okay🙄 it doesn’t change the history or weight behind the word, so….why call each other that? Other than to act like the white folk in the 1950s?
Exactly! You absolutely CANNOT turn a word filled with pure hatred into a term of endearment. It's so crazy to me that lots of black people don't see it that way. Extreme disrespect to our ancestors. smfh
Now this is what I call a DEEP DIVE! I loved how you broke down so many things in this video - I agree with you on the use of calling your friends " b-t ch " I think it's disrespectful and I don't even know how that became a thing, why are we calling our friends female dogs. I have too much respect for myself and my friends to allow that - You're giving out so many gems in this video especially when it comes to mental health and how toxic friendships effect that - I love that you said people need to vet their friends just like they would do with a relationship because it's just as important as a romantic relationship - EVERYTHING you said about how they would rag on everything Joan did was so true and how they would try to discredit her blackness just because she had different interests, me and Joan would've been BFFs lol This video was amazing!!!! 💖
As much as I love Toni I agree she was beyond selfish and had the nerve to call Joan selfish lmao now Toni 😂 Joan didn’t owe anyone anything she was always there for them and they constantly used her and drained her for whatever they could get from her, she didn’t deserve that at all Toni really upset me when she tried to guilt her into watching Morgan she should’ve been happy for Joan
yeah it was like joan finally found her sexiness & confidence, her “friends” resented her….for FINALLY setting boundaries & putting HER OWN needs FIRST!! was she flaky & all over the place during this time? yes lol. BUT- it’s almost like she had EARNED that right to be “flighty….” she was sooooooo present for these grown women it was ridiculous
One thing I notice about people is that they HATE when they can no longer use you and will project all of their insecurities onto and make you feel guilty for finally choosing yourself over them because they can no longer get what they need from you just like when you won't just accept someone's sorry and get they so upset because they believe a simple "sorry" will fix everything rather than changed behavior 🤔 and you should automatically forgive them. they were so upset that Joan was not their flunky anymore to make fun and prop themselves up especially Maya, the same one who called Joan bougie but when she finally got her money up was throwing it in peoples face ( like her acting a fool on that plane about first class flights) and thinking people were obligated to go to her house, ugh she was so unlikable lmao I love JOAN period and her friends were straight basuraaaaa
Dude Maya was annoying the absolute hell out of me in that episode. It wasn’t cute and it wasn’t funny, and after all that she was still struggling with money when her book wasn’t selling so the joke was on her!!!!
@@Fueunachimba Omg I thought it was just me who got irritated watching that episode with Maya, the same free loader who would always talk about people being "uppity" but couldn't wait to show her tail, she really started to think she was better than them for her little book and doing her cousin Ronny so messed up when he promoted and helped her to get her book deal. chileee smh a mess
Yallllllll I thought it was just me!!!!! I really wanted to slap the SHIT outta her on that episode, the one where Darnell cussed Joan out about the watch, & especially the episode where she yelled at Joan about wanting everything to be at her house & she was the reason Toni went to New York…but I find it funny how she wasn’t saying that bs when she stayed at Joan’s house rent free when she got caught.. I didn’t like Maya at all
I loved Joan for her style, her poise, and the fact that she was very responsible. I love that she enjoyed taking care of her friends and all she wanted was a sense of family. I hated that the writers made Joan more erratic than normal. The Brock "enchanted love" story was supposed to be a breath of fresh air, but it was cringy and my least like episodes ( I usually skip these because I cringe so much). I hate that she just couldn't be in the moment despite how great her life actually was. I also hated as soon as she was able to calm down and find Aaron, the show was cut short. It seemed like everyone had a happy ending, but her. I continue to hope that we get that reunion movie. Sex and the City got what 3? And they aren't that interesting honestly.
The reason some people don't like Joan is because they dislike educated women who have her things together and doesn't come from the hood, they feel inadequate and insecure because they low key hate where they come from and wished they had what she did. a lot of our people secretly hate seeing others in our community succeed and that they came from a well-off family or didn't have to struggle it's like they've made it some rite of passage to struggle. Joan was someone who was different, and she needed to find her own tribe because the women she was friends with were the complete opposite and envious of her 🙄 I loved her and she will always be my favorite character, Maya was a bird with no class, Lynn was a free loading mooch (no one cares if she gets it together in the last season, only a few people watched that lmao) and Toni although I love her was selfish. I loved this video💗 and I appreciate you for giving us this deep dive. Had to add: I remember back in the day making rude comments was seen as a cornball thing someone could do. Now people feel so comfortable making comments online because it's the only time someone cares about them. Alot of them are the same ones who are scared to even stand up for themselves in person but come on the internet and want to be the villain and victim.
@@PrincessEevee999 Who cares why you don't like her lol mad because she has class and didn't act like the stereotypical bw let me guess you loveeeeeeeee Maya and think that everyone around you owes you something lmaoo
I just wish the writers did better with all the characters development overall like they all deserved to have growth and happiness in the end why did there need to be so much drama and toxicity in their thirties!!
I have always felt that the tv show girlfriends was the start of normalizing bw referring to each other as the b word and using it as a term of "endearment"! I don't remember that ever being a thing in the 90's! The only person who referred to themselves as the b word in the 90's was lil kim when she started calling herself the Queen B! After girlfriends aired, bw started calling each other bitches and using it like BP use the n word! Now it's gotten so bad that it seems like you can't even build a bond with some BW if your not okay with them casually calling you the b word! I literally had co workers and classmates that I was really cool with and was building a friendship with but the moment I told them I don't play the b word ish and not to refer to me as such (in a nice way), I notice how all of them would fall back from me after I set that boundary! I will NEVER let a women playfully disrespect me, you don't get to use the b word as a term of endearment and then turn around and use it as a form of disrespect when your mad or don't like me!
Joan has always stood behind me bc I related to her so much. That people pleasing self sabotage is real! She wasn’t perfect at all and made some crazy decisions but when you have low self esteem it’s whew! She needed a better support system.
I just finished girlfriends last night and I’m mad it got cancelled and didn’t have a good conclusion. The last episode with Joan going to Aaron’s school was really nice
What ticked me off so much about Joan was how her husband Davis was right in her face and she kept being oblivious to his calling I mean just think if her and Davis got together when she was starting her restaurant that storyline would’ve made WAAYYY more sense instead of the one they were building between her and William like come onn.
I saw Joan as the villain sometimes . The situation when she got drunk the night before Toni’s custody hearing was so childish . I was looking like how do you accidentally drink too much and crash your car the night before a court date , and you’re a grown ass lawyer. When she would accidentally blurt out stuff to people I side eyed her. When she agreed to be Monica’s maid of honor I thought that was dead wrong and she should’ve respectfully declined. You knew you didn’t like that girl and still showed up as her frenemy maid of honor.
I love Toni but she leached off Joan. I hate how they did Joan when she went to the party too. But true every time Joan had confidence or finally thought of herself, they would instantly make her feel like a horrid friend
I love Joan because I do relate to her character a lot - I am a full on Joan apologist because as you said, her issues came from family trauma and from good intentions, though that doesn’t excuse some of her behavior. The one thing I HATED about Girlfriends was when one of the characters would go to therapy (especially Joan and Toni) and FINALLY start unraveling their issues and the show would make them just stop??? Toni finally acknowledged her fear that everyone secretly hated her, and Joan finally realized that gives so much to her friends that wouldn’t do the same for her and didn’t even know why they were her friends. But then allll that progress is undone by the end of that season. I loved the “Just Joan” episode where she hangs up on the men she was dating AND sees Davis at the movies and she actually doesn’t turn it into this clandestine sign that she should get married for once and can just enjoy that friendly moment. But of course, by the next arc, she’s got a new man she’s obsessed with. Same with Sean, she realized mid-spill that she was acting crazy in that restaurant trying to get him back, despite him not being worth a damn, and put herself first! I wanted Joan to grow so much cause she pointed out my own issues, but then she would rewind to season 1. Same with Toni and her religious/therapy arc where it becomes a joke that she hasn’t gone back by the next season. Ugh!
I definitely think that Joan needed new friends! She was constantly giving out more than she was receiving. But it also points out to what you said about her childhood, that she was constantly seeking validation from these friendships. However, on the other hand, people do what you allow them to do I felt like Joan failed to set boundaries with people and that’s why they ran all over her.
This video is so accurate🙏🏽 and low-key triggered me, I was like Joan when I was younger now I've started to build my self confidence and recognize that I'm not everyone's servant nor am I a "selfish bitch" because I'm not going the extra mile for people who want nothing more than to use me, and are perfectly capable of going to get whatever themselves.
Wow what you said is so true about them making Joan a villain once she became the It Girl and Mara really showed her true colors when creating this show and if you look into her and husband it explains so much about why Girlfriends was the show that it was….. Joan was one of my favorites and will always be even though she could be nagging and whiny sometimes lol but I love her 💗 I couldn’t imagine anyone else playing the role of Joan besides Tracee
@@Luvanmusiq Okay because TH-cam censors a lot of topics especially S A and other triggering topics. I can’t go into full detail but just google why ‘Love Is’ was cancelled as well as how he and his wife stole the script from a woman he was involved with.
I remember the christmas episode in I think Season 5, when Joan was out of town, and Mya, Lynn and Toni were at her house reading her diaries and bashing her. With friends like those who needs enemies 😂 It made good tv but wow...I thought this was a show about GIRLFRIENDS.
Great take on Joan I agree they did her wrong when she became successful…the only time I found her unbearable was season 3 the Ellis/wedding storyline and season 8 when she looked down on Aaron Other than that lookin back this show was toxic
Also, it was lame as hell how Joan wasn’t there for Toni in the two most important things she was missing for half of the wedding chasing Ellis and then she didn’t make it to the court that really bothered me. Toni wasn’t perfect, but I’m not gonna sit here and act like Joan was perfect either. That was lame when Joan tried to take over Maya’s wedding too. In the video you mentioned the cover of the magazine thing, but nobody thought it was weird that she slept with a guy for the cover. She said she didn’t but she did. If I’m remembering correctly she said no I didn’t just sleep with you for the cover I have strong feelings , then she was playing him. I didn’t see Toni as jealous of Joan at all. I’m just commenting as I watch if this seems all over the place. Toni seemed jealous of Maya at first. She couldn’t believe Maya went to France and Maya was married with a child
I relate to Joan so much & I hate it. 😭 it’s crazy though, bc when Joan did try to put herself first everyone made her feel bad & she would end up suffering after the fact.
Well Joan was the godmother to Toni’s baby. When it coming to court case was more for the baby that the friendship. I don’t care if my friend hate me. I take my godmother’s duties seriously.
I do like Tony, but if I were Joan, I would have cut Tony out of my life long time ago. it doesn’t matter how old they get or what context, Tony was always trying to compete and one up Joan, and when she had a baby, expected Joan to just drop everything for her.
Although I do love Joan, the one area she annoyed tf out of me in were her relationships. She was always going on and on about marriage and having kids. She wouldn’t even be in a relationship with a guy for a month when she would start talking about marriage and kids, and that was very disturbing to me. The fact is that Joan was very insecure and that’s because of how everyone in her life treated her: her ugly ass mom, her dad, and even her friends. The fact that she had a 3 month rule was partially to have control over SOMETHING, and the fact that she based her self esteem off how quickly Sean tried to get her in bed. The fact that she didn’t communicate her issues with her boyfriends, and instead expected them to read her mind and play stupid little games with them was also very annoying to me. She would also jump way ahead of herself in the relationships she was in instead of just being in the relationship, and that was not a good thing for her to do, and not a good example to set for black women. Joan needed help. She truly did. And then when she got therapy to help her out with the things going on in her life, her friends even made fun of her for that. She was just unlucky, and should’ve stayed in therapy longer. Maybe then she would’ve set boundaries in her friendships, learned how to say no, and had healthier relationships!
Can you do Monica? When I watched this show when I was younger I really didn’t like her but now that I watched it as an adult she really was the best one
I remember watching this show with my mom but only having vague recollection of it (i really only liked Joan and Lynn only for the fashion aspect). So when i rewatched the show back in HS i was like "why is everyone kinda....mean??". But man, seeing Joan being this.. passive makes me sad because some girls are legit like this and people need to learn to set boundaries in order to have healthy relationships and mental peace.
Thank you for doing this! It’s like everyone just focused on the last season without knowing Joan as a person throughout the show. On another note: You should do something similar with Sex and the City! Rewatching it is actually annoying with some topics as presented in girlfriends.
I have noticed that Girlfriends and the Proud Family shows that black girls and women can only have toxic friendships. The mc friends are very mean spirited to the main character.
I remember that episode where Maya, Toni, and Lynn jacked up her house and her stuff on purpose bc she didn’t get them the Christmas gifts they wanted…like how trifling can you be bruh. And I’m not saying Joan was without her own faults but the way they walked all over her and expected her to take it/eventually forgive them was so damn inconsiderate and borderline cruel. You don’t do your friends like that. All of these women needed serious therapy. Or at least one good ass whoopen, lol. And I’d argue Maya was the most ungrateful after Lynn too. With all that being said however, I do think they all loved each other dearly deep down, but the way they showed it was bare minimum at times or flat out not at all. As for Joan’s character, I just wish she had a solid win for once. Especially when it came to her love life. At some point it just felt like trauma porn good lord. Loved your viewpoints and commentary! You’re a very talented and insightful individual❤️I appreciate these videos so much…it feels like a love letter to my childhood. Kinda like girl talk over fashion and being a black woman maneuvering through life. Anyway I’m just rambling now😭🫶🏾
@@nakithajones that’s true! But then he had to go back to the army after they drafted him. I just felt like she always had another shoe dropping on her
On paper, I get why Joan was looked at as the bag guy, with her and Toni's break up. However, Joan has ALWAYS been through friend who's always there for others, while not having much for herself.
They show was ao Cattyly written and bad. As Joan&Toni should've remained Friends and Toni could've had her Therapy Sessions shown more and had Joan with her. The Showrunner dropped so.many Balls. Even though Hollywood did have an Writer's Strike during both her Series.
I noticed depending where you’re from then being fake or toxic is something that’s seen as the norm. We’re from NY so that fake, nice nasty, or staying friends with someone for convenience we don’t really do , we’re very straight forward and have a low tolerance for that behavior. The way Maya, Lynn, and Toni treated Joan were disgusting and I would’ve banged all 3 of their heads together lmao 😂 And Toni having the nerve to pop slick in Joan’s face about her purchasing a car….. babyyyyy Joan was good because I would’ve had Toni in a corner crying somewhere 😂
You've absolutely right in this video. Look, I love this show & Joan was my favorite of the girlfriends. However, it always drove me crazy how she would go to the Ends of the Earth to solve other people's problems but not be able to solve her own. I just wish they made her stand up for herself more often
I definitely can relate to that pain/frustration with a father not making an effort to see how you are while he’s in town visiting but act as if/claims to love you when face to face or over a phone call/text (it’s more hurtful when you have to find out via social media).
I can understand this perspective, but during that season of the show, Joan was handling situations in MESSED UP ways, though. I think that’s why people were looking at her that way. 6:02 I literally JUST rewatched the show and I realized that Toni is usually the main focus of their relationship, but naw, Joan had her faults in the relationship too. Joan would be there for Toni when it came to small things, but when it came to IMPORTANT events in Toni’s life, Joan would CONSISTENTLY not show up. Ex #1: When Toni wanted to start her own Real Estate business, it was Joan that basically talked her down. Ex #2: Toni’s Wedding Ex #3: Morgan’s Custody battle, which Joan AGREED to show up for. Toni didn’t feel entitled to have Joan there. Joan was her MAIN witness and also AGREED to be there. I agree, Joan should have been more selfish in her life, but she would choose the WRONG times to be selfish and that’s why it usually worked against her every time.
I can relate to Joan I used to be a people pleaser buying gifts for former friends and be apart of their families and their success. But with all that I had my own stuff going on they became jealous and envious and cut me off. I recently just had another cut me off wow after letting him in rent free , just contribute to food , then breaks rules and brought a stranger in my home. Got the balls to get mad at me the way I reacted after waking me and keeping up noise. Told him to take his guest home then got pissed and said he’s packing up leaving going back on HIS word it will never happen again after being drunk all night Fine See ya. I set boundaries and he ends the friendship with me. Wow ok ! It’s with men too jealousy is a real thing in black/puerto rican community, some have mommy and daddy issues and expect you to give them everything , but when say “no”then they get upset and cut you off. Unlike Joan there is a line and if they leave they never really was a friend of mine. Real friends respect your boundaries and give back, and have empathy on what you are going through and care about your success, point blank period.
I agree with everything that you said, Joan was always there for her friends and was the best friend out of all of them, to the point where she did way too much for them. She was not a perfect friend (with her telling Greg about Clay and all), but she was always good friend. And she 100% deserved to feel herself and enjoy being the it girl when her sports bar was a hit. Her friends didn’t contribute a single thing to her success in the restaurant and Lynn and Maya truly needed to be slapped for mooching off her restaurant when it was struggling. Any time Joan couldn’t be the butt of their jokes they were nasty and jealous of her and that wasn’t right. When she didn’t have a man they made fun of her. When she didn’t have a job they made fun of her. When she set boundaries for all of them they were shady and nasty towards her. When she was popular and enjoying the spotlight they hated on her. When William paid for a vacation for the two of them they all got jealous of her and trashed her house. Wtf????? Like honestly what kind of friends were they. Even when Joan got engaged, both Toni and Monica made fun of the size of Joan’s engagement ring. Joan never did anything like that to them, and it was really messed up. I would’ve stopped being friend with all of them a long time ago if I were her. And also, SCREW Lynn’s culture vulture ass sister. She was terrible in every way: telling Joan she didn’t act black, wearing black hairstyles, saying by the N word, and calling black men “brothas”? I thought Maya’s stupid ass was going to check her as well, but she encouraged Lynn’s sister. When I stream Girlfriends, I always skip that episode. Every time.
It’s interesting how they managed to make Joan and Lynn somewhat likable. Through all of their flaws, they were still very much relatable and likable. Ppl can always find some silver lining when it comes to them. But Toni and maya were annoying selfish judgmental argumentative and generally unlikable. I strongly disliked Toni back then even though Joan was just as shallow.
YESSS to Beyonce's "My House" being added. I love that you're apart of the hive 🐝 lol I need to learn to clear the girls in a classy way like you do lmao I agree with how toxic the friend group was and I hate how people try to make excuses for it because of when the show came out. It doesn't matter when it came out it should never be okay to treat your friends like this. I expect that behavior from teenagers not grown women who know better it was absurd I love Joan and I loved her and William's friendship and I don't like that they made them a couple in the show, it was so unnecessary and lazy writing 🙄
I really never liked any of the men that played love interest for this cast…Its like they couldnt find any decent actors or men worth being a partner 😂 thats one thing that always bothered me with this show.
Whew almost 30 MINUTES?! Let me grab some snacks 🍿 yes gather the girls up real quick 😂 because they love coming online and crunching on their keyboards over an opinion some people are in desperate need of therapy and self love
We’re talking about the early 2000s. Mara has already stated she knew woman like this which is why she created these characters. I think people were way more involved in their friends lives back in the day than today. Their dynamic was absolutely horrible but that’s what made it entertaining. I think the women who kept this show alive back in the day could see themselves in part of each of these characters regardless of the scenarios they made up for the show. So yes, it is just a TV show of a particular ERA of sitcom.
Im not even done with the show but the way Toni was making fun of Joan's ring when Brock proposed to Joan made me have no faith for their friendship in the future.
To me Joan was TVs first "Neurotic Black Woman" which i never saw before.(she wasnt that Strong Black Woman trope or a totally submissive partner, she was in the middle, a bit confusing, sometimes a little too vulnerable etc)
Can you do a dive/review on Joan’s cousin Melanie Barnett from the game? I just recently rewatched all these shows after giving birth and I didn’t realize how toxic Melanie was until rewatching the show as an adult lol
what annoyed me was when Joan finally stood up for herself and tried to stop being a people pleaser, her “friends” hated it because they couldn’t mooch off her anymore and when Maya and Lynn would tell Joan to stop being friends with Toni all the time, when Joan then chose to stop being friends with Toni now all of sudden it’s “Joan, be friends with Toni again, she needs you” I thought y’all said she was trifling??? 😭
Yesssss omg this irked me so much lol. how are y'all going to be upset that she finally set boundaries and try to basically tell her how to set them like huh ?? lol . She needed to get away from them completely.
If Joan set strict boundaries with Toni then Joan would most likely set boundaries with maya and Lynn and they were not gonna risk their meal ticket getting a backbone
Joan needed better friends her “ friends “ weren’t as great as she thought . She did have people pleasing issues I like when she started gaining confidence
I really wish part of Joan's character development involved her braching out and making some new friends that were more living and supportive so she could brake away from her toxic relationships.
Facts!! She did EVERYTHING for them, like housing Maya when she was going through a divorce, putting a roof over Lynn's head, and constantly having to clean up Toni's messes, and they had the nerve to curse and call her crazy. William was imperfect, too, but at least he'd own up to it and didn't rely on Joan for every little thing; thus making him her only REAL friend.
She was a bad friend herself though.
William was her only real friend@@rachelmartin5187
@@animezae for plot convenience sometimes. But she was pretty good of a friend
That part when Toni called her a selfish b*tch I got heated again back when I first seen that episode. They treated Joan terrible. Exactly why Toni, Lynn and Maya were always having issues/problems in their life. The only real friend she had was William and later Monica.
Of all the things Joan did for Toni … I hated that part too.
Monica
@@hayleymadisonllc2180 and even today people think Toni was justified saying that. Towards the end of the show Toni started getting a taste of her own medicine and didn’t like being treated how she used to treat others
Monica turning into a better friend than all of her girlfriends was so wild low key lmao
@@yukijames1321 I truly love the Toni character until her selfishness became narcissistic and overbearing with Joan when Joan finally started to live a life where she had menses and happening things to do around town🥂. Hob Nobbing with the rich and famous. Whew the JEALOUSY spewing out of her pores…. That damn Maya boyyyy …… yes the ghetto girl that Joan was trying to show a better life to because she insisted on intersecting the friendship to prove she was not less than. I despised the fact that she turned on Joan and sided with Toni and was using Joan restaurant to eat but not support. When they say “typical” tu hu!!! Then the Lynn the follower …. I was just happy when Maya and Lynn sort of started to find there way and stop acting ratchet towards Joan. William was right they could have never been my friends on a day to day life
Looking back as adult I feel so sad for Joan, all she truly wanted was to feel loved and wanted. 😢she self-sabotaged herself so many times.
This comment here tho 💯
And they made her so thirsty. It was so irking and I truly feel like the writers miss the mark not only Joan but all the ladies.
I. End she was engaged an not friends with Toni. But Monica an Lynn an Mya grew up to
Joan was a good friend, but I despised that she didn't have a good friend group, lacked boundaries, and people pleased so much. I wanted better for Joan when I rewatched this show as an adult. I was glad when she started gaining confidence and telling people "no," I wished the writers allowed her to grow in that confidence.
That was literally my favorite episode ever. I really do wish she kept doing that because it was beautiful
We already know Lynn was a mooch but I think that the issue of Maya having no boundaries and being very unprofessional didn’t get explored enough. Maya would show up late, leave early, book all kinds of personal appointments during the day, get nosy into Joan’s business, even SLEPT WITH DARNELL on Joan’s desk, begged Joan to let her work with William and then hated working for William and tried coming back to Joan… and when William reported her to HR for her behavior (which should have been done a long time ago), Maya flips out?
Yes and William didn't take no mess from Maya while he was her boss. See Joan let her get away with alot of stuff
It's funny how people will get mad at their bosses for doing their job
Joan’s hair was everything!
Always ate
I loved the character of Joan and how Tracee Ellis Ross brought so many layers to her….funny, quirky, insecure, competent, dreamer, generous, needy, and at her worst: so very neurotic and screechy.
Joan deserved better friends that encouraged and supported her dreams. Allowed her space to explore her identity and poured into her.
The fashions! Ms Ross was wearing Louboutins before the rest of us knew what they were. Her clothes, the accessories - hats, bags, earrings, watches, scarves….that wardrobe remains top tier!!! ❤❤
Baby toe!😂❤
All of This 💯
The fashion still stands today! Joan’s work bag was a Birkin 💅🏾💅🏾
I just noticed her carrying bottega tote! I never knew anything about fashion back when I was a teen, re watching it now just to see if I can spot the fashions honey
@@glassawata 20 years later the fashions still hold up!
Joan was the flyest. Hence, why she was the main character. She just didn’t see herself properly which caused her to tolerate toxicity.
She didn’t know her worth.
Unfortunately I related to Joan the most as former people pleaser and had to learn the hard way after being disrespected, used, abused, and cheated on. I had to put myself first and stop trying to make everyone like me. I also had to learn how to set boundaries and go to therapy to deal with my past trauma.
Joan was the kid who gave away her lunch to the popular kids so she could be liked. Her friends were pretty awful to her. They constantly put her down, mooched from her, and felt a sense of entitlement to her time. Overall, they were more like frenemies instead of friends.
Damn, 30 minutes? You are spoiling us 😭
Joan, Joan, Joan. What do I say about this woman? Well, first, I really wish she learned to set boundaries with her friends (the only person I felt she really did this with is Toni) and seeing them walk all over her was really hard. They’re always dragging her down whenever she tries to float. She felt like the Carrie of the show, constantly making mistakes and running all over the country to maintain her relationships. She didn’t know how to balance her personal feelings with her friendships. Seriously, all these women needed therapy, they all had serious emotional issues to work through. They were all jealous of what she had, and it was so obvious. There should’ve been one episode where Joan stopped talking to them and they realized how much they needed her. Because honestly none of them deserved her friendship.
Agreed! We’re on the same page she needed to set boundaries with these women I hated the way they treated her and used her. This friendship group was so unhealthy and toxic
Agree!
Actually at least Carrie put herself first. To the point of selfishness.
Also not mention Mya was a horrible horrible employee
Right how can you call yourself a friend and go to work for them but do a horrible job? Just trifling
@@themostbeautifulisraw4561 then left her best friend to work for her best friend's future boyfriend to only be worse but consider him a friend. It's honestly real life and those types are ridiculous.
I could of definitely see Lynn Whitfield playing Joans Mom 😂
That would’ve been perfect! 😩
I could have seen Ann Marie Johnson playing her mom.
Yes.. Joan was far from perfect and had her quirks, BUT she was the most loyal and consistent friend to all of them. The season where Toni and Joan had tension, I feel like Toni wanted Joan to suffer with her for her bad decisions. When Maya insulting Joan when she lived in her house FOR FREE and was tolerated when she had such poor work ethic was crazy. Lynn was a freeloader and took the most advantage of Joan. I wish Joan left them alone years ago cuz she was their stepping stone when they all were at their lowest, but when it was Joan's turn, it was joked about or met with jealousy. I didn't see anything wrong with Joan finally focusing on herself. Toni was projecting because she failed after she flaunted her marriage/wealth in everyone's faces.
I agree
Wow Lynn was living in Joan's house rent free in California for 8 YEARS?!?! I thought it was a year tops. Nah Lynn was a leech!
Personally i feel like Joan should have become a teacher instead of trying to run her own restaurant. I only say this because those last few episodes of her and the students were some of my favorite moments from her. Joan in a classroom felt so natural and organic and it would have just made more sense for her to do.
Yes, especially because Joan is someone who constantly gives to others. At least with children they need more love and support and have to learn to trust themselves, etc.
@RuthMcDougal She got clowned by Students already. Ya'll think this weak Personality of her's would survive? Hell Maya got thrown out too. You must not know the State of how Classrooms get run.
@@PrincessEevee999 Literally no one said she had to teach at that school lol. She wouldn't have needed to teach at the same school as Aaron.
On a side note, while this doesn’t have much to do with the subject matter, I totally agree with your preference of seeing healthy friendships on shows, especially amongst black women. Too many sitcoms showcase and normalize toxic friendships.
I loved Joan she was a good friend even though she had her issues, like they all did but she was never malicious or evil to anyone. I like how you spoke about Joan and Toni's friendship being a tr@um@ bond because I never even thought about that and how they both had their issues with their mother I don't think I've heard anyone talk about that but it's so true. Your deep dives always make me see things differently when it comes to our favorite characters
I always felt like Joan and Toni were two sides of the same coin sometimes because of their trauma bond/mother issues. It’s really clear the first episode with Toni showing up with Joan’s ex and then Joan was willing to chat up the ex towards the end of the episode and hid him when Toni came over to apologize. There was always a bit of a competitive nature with them. When one was progressing in some way the other was jealous. The only difference as mentioned is how Joan never did anything in malice tho and the fact that she definitely took on more of the heavy load in all of the friendships.
Come to think about it. Maya was the only person to use the b word as a term of endearment. No one else-as in the educated friends, used that term. This detail highlights the background of the "hood" behavior. Maya being from the hood was juxtaposed to the girls that weren't. I like how the show touched on that term and it's use.
Joan had her quirks, however, ever since I was 7, I said Joan was the best friend out of the group. The rest of them (Toni, Lynn, and Mya) were so trifling.
Now that you mention it we need a William video 😂🙌🏽 I’m here for it
Classic case of a closeted man too afraid to explore his sexuality.
Not to dismiss your idea, but when it comes to William, I think the best topic to discuss would be "daddy issues" cause he seemed to have more of that than any of the characters.
Joan was really that girl. I wish she would've saw herself as that. I grew up as a an avid people pleaser and an avoidant people chaser. Now im in therapy, my boundaries are set and I always give myself the love I want and deserve. She could've had it all and she should've.
i've been watching your profile on each of the girlfriends ladies with absolute enthusiasm. i'm so excited because i couldn't wait to hear you unpack joan! i hope you know how much joy your videos are bringing
Aw Thankyou so much babe 🩷 I truly appreciate it.
That spoke to me loudly. I relate to Joan so much in friendships. I’m a constant people pleaser and I have a toxic parent that is ill. I am there for her, but she is overly critical, anxious and caused me to have depression and anxiety. It caused trouble in my last relationship which was creepily parallel to hers. I felt I had to shrink myself to his standards and it was emotionally abusive. Recently I was giving her her food and she told me she wanted me to marry a family friend who just visited her. She laughed but it wasn’t funny. I looked at like I’i bet you would!’ I told her to stop! However, when I moved out and got on the track to getting my confidence back, she just comes at me under the guise of ‘speaking the truth in love.. I had to stand up for myself. It’s exhausting because she doesn’t listen to understand and is dismissive. I do love my mother, but I find that I am coping by distance.
Toni may have been ‘that girl,’ but she was raggedy AF! She literally dated Joan’s man the same date they broke up, and on her bday at that! Then she came after Joan’s second man after Joan accidentally ( Dear Toni stans, she didn’t mean any malice. The operative word is ACCIDENTALLY. 🤔) blurted out that she was messing around with some other dude. For someone that’s fly she’s always acting entitled but for the wrong reasons. That friendship was codependent at best.
I love Joan, but the biggest self-administered "L" she ever took was when she quit being an attorney just because she found that fashion institute letter Lynn never submitted for her.
Joan made that decision out of impulse (like many others), it was stupid and byfar the biggest character deviation from the show, that bothered me as a person. The writers could have _easily_ kept Joan as a lawyer, but she wanted to have the J-Spot as her second hobby or even a boutique to revisit her love for fashion.
Why dumb Joan down like that (taking away her high-powered career and replacing it with a struggle-restaurant) while giving William _her_ dream job as Partner, instead of her? I'll never know, but I HATED it.
Well it is true to life. Sometimes people go on the path chosen for them, her parents were successful and I can see her wanting to achieve the same success, then later realizing that's not what she wanted at all.
i can understand your point….i wonder tho, if being a lawyer was somethin she realized she was GREAT at but not necessarily her PASSION, you know? that happens sometimes too
They should've let Joan be with Davis, that could've been a good match waaaaay better than Sean smh and I know they needed a way to write Toni off but homegirl was doing way too much. All of them turned on her when she finally put herself 1st!
Traci Ellis Ross is gorgeous
Also yes to what you said about people stereotyping and claiming someone isn't " b l a c k " if we don't act a certain way I hate that and how people equate blackness to struggle. It's so annoying because I would hear it a lot from some family members because I refuse to watch certain tv shows that depicts us in a negative light or listen to music that degrades us and I love Broadway shows, reading, ballet etc. some people are so ignorant and just want to push that onto others who they believe are different
I’m so glad you brought up the fact black people calling other black people the N-word. I spent lots of time with my great grandmother and she use to hate to hear Black people call each other that because she actually grew up in that time when it was used more derogatorily to offend black people. She experienced the true hatred and it forever leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I hear other black people try to use the word as a “term of endearment”. Idk who woke up and decided for all black people that now the word is not bad, but they don’t speak for me. Just because some black folk think it’s okay, doesn’t make it okay🙄 it doesn’t change the history or weight behind the word, so….why call each other that? Other than to act like the white folk in the 1950s?
Agreed! I can't stand that word.
Exactly! You absolutely CANNOT turn a word filled with pure hatred into a term of endearment. It's so crazy to me that lots of black people don't see it that way. Extreme disrespect to our ancestors. smfh
I agree x!!!
Now this is what I call a DEEP DIVE! I loved how you broke down so many things in this video
- I agree with you on the use of calling your friends " b-t ch " I think it's disrespectful and I don't even know how that became a thing, why are we calling our friends female dogs. I have too much respect for myself and my friends to allow that
- You're giving out so many gems in this video especially when it comes to mental health and how toxic friendships effect that
- I love that you said people need to vet their friends just like they would do with a relationship because it's just as important as a romantic relationship
- EVERYTHING you said about how they would rag on everything Joan did was so true and how they would try to discredit her blackness just because she had different interests, me and Joan would've been BFFs lol
This video was amazing!!!! 💖
Girl this video was soooo deep. Loved it
As much as I love Toni I agree she was beyond selfish and had the nerve to call Joan selfish lmao now Toni 😂 Joan didn’t owe anyone anything she was always there for them and they constantly used her and drained her for whatever they could get from her, she didn’t deserve that at all
Toni really upset me when she tried to guilt her into watching Morgan she should’ve been happy for Joan
Toni was jealous of Joan during her it girl era
yeah it was like joan finally found her sexiness & confidence, her “friends” resented her….for FINALLY setting boundaries & putting HER OWN needs FIRST!! was she flaky & all over the place during this time? yes lol. BUT- it’s almost like she had EARNED that right to be “flighty….” she was sooooooo present for these grown women it was ridiculous
I was mad they did Joan like that just when she was becoming the main character in her life smh.
One thing I notice about people is that they HATE when they can no longer use you and will project all of their insecurities onto and make you feel guilty for finally choosing yourself over them because they can no longer get what they need from you just like when you won't just accept someone's sorry and get they so upset because they believe a simple "sorry" will fix everything rather than changed behavior 🤔 and you should automatically forgive them. they were so upset that Joan was not their flunky anymore to make fun and prop themselves up especially Maya, the same one who called Joan bougie but when she finally got her money up was throwing it in peoples face ( like her acting a fool on that plane about first class flights) and thinking people were obligated to go to her house, ugh she was so unlikable lmao I love JOAN period and her friends were straight basuraaaaa
Dude Maya was annoying the absolute hell out of me in that episode. It wasn’t cute and it wasn’t funny, and after all that she was still struggling with money when her book wasn’t selling so the joke was on her!!!!
@@Fueunachimba Omg I thought it was just me who got irritated watching that episode with Maya, the same free loader who would always talk about people being "uppity" but couldn't wait to show her tail, she really started to think she was better than them for her little book and doing her cousin Ronny so messed up when he promoted and helped her to get her book deal. chileee smh a mess
@@barbiesinspiration8799exactly!!! She was so shady to everyone, even her own family like wth!!!!!
Yallllllll I thought it was just me!!!!! I really wanted to slap the SHIT outta her on that episode, the one where Darnell cussed Joan out about the watch, & especially the episode where she yelled at Joan about wanting everything to be at her house & she was the reason Toni went to New York…but I find it funny how she wasn’t saying that bs when she stayed at Joan’s house rent free when she got caught.. I didn’t like Maya at all
I loved Joan for her style, her poise, and the fact that she was very responsible. I love that she enjoyed taking care of her friends and all she wanted was a sense of family. I hated that the writers made Joan more erratic than normal. The Brock "enchanted love" story was supposed to be a breath of fresh air, but it was cringy and my least like episodes ( I usually skip these because I cringe so much). I hate that she just couldn't be in the moment despite how great her life actually was. I also hated as soon as she was able to calm down and find Aaron, the show was cut short. It seemed like everyone had a happy ending, but her. I continue to hope that we get that reunion movie. Sex and the City got what 3? And they aren't that interesting honestly.
The reason some people don't like Joan is because they dislike educated women who have her things together and doesn't come from the hood, they feel inadequate and insecure because they low key hate where they come from and wished they had what she did. a lot of our people secretly hate seeing others in our community succeed and that they came from a well-off family or didn't have to struggle it's like they've made it some rite of passage to struggle. Joan was someone who was different, and she needed to find her own tribe because the women she was friends with were the complete opposite and envious of her 🙄 I loved her and she will always be my favorite character, Maya was a bird with no class, Lynn was a free loading mooch (no one cares if she gets it together in the last season, only a few people watched that lmao) and Toni although I love her was selfish. I loved this video💗 and I appreciate you for giving us this deep dive.
Had to add: I remember back in the day making rude comments was seen as a cornball thing someone could do. Now people feel so comfortable making comments online because it's the only time someone cares about them. Alot of them are the same ones who are scared to even stand up for themselves in person but come on the internet and want to be the villain and victim.
Preach! Especially that last paragraph.
This!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't like Ms. Clayton cause she's just as BackStabbing as them but so."Demure" about it. She was not above.them.
@@PrincessEevee999 Who cares why you don't like her lol mad because she has class and didn't act like the stereotypical bw let me guess you loveeeeeeeee Maya and think that everyone around you owes you something lmaoo
I just wish the writers did better with all the characters development overall like they all deserved to have growth and happiness in the end why did there need to be so much drama and toxicity in their thirties!!
I have always felt that the tv show girlfriends was the start of normalizing bw referring to each other as the b word and using it as a term of "endearment"! I don't remember that ever being a thing in the 90's! The only person who referred to themselves as the b word in the 90's was lil kim when she started calling herself the Queen B! After girlfriends aired, bw started calling each other bitches and using it like BP use the n word!
Now it's gotten so bad that it seems like you can't even build a bond with some BW if your not okay with them casually calling you the b word! I literally had co workers and classmates that I was really cool with and was building a friendship with but the moment I told them I don't play the b word ish and not to refer to me as such (in a nice way), I notice how all of them would fall back from me after I set that boundary! I will NEVER let a women playfully disrespect me, you don't get to use the b word as a term of endearment and then turn around and use it as a form of disrespect when your mad or don't like me!
I agree with all of this. Especially bout Ellis. He didn't like her or respect her. He saw how neurotic and desperate she was.
We definitely need a William deep dive
Joan has always stood behind me bc I related to her so much. That people pleasing self sabotage is real! She wasn’t perfect at all and made some crazy decisions but when you have low self esteem it’s whew! She needed a better support system.
I just finished girlfriends last night and I’m mad it got cancelled and didn’t have a good conclusion. The last episode with Joan going to Aaron’s school was really nice
If you have Hulu immediately go and look up "Black*ish*" Season Six Episode 4 I think? The Episode be called "Feminisnt" for an neat Surprise.
What ticked me off so much about Joan was how her husband Davis was right in her face and she kept being oblivious to his calling I mean just think if her and Davis got together when she was starting her restaurant that storyline would’ve made WAAYYY more sense instead of the one they were building between her and William like come onn.
I saw Joan as the villain sometimes . The situation when she got drunk the night before Toni’s custody hearing was so childish . I was looking like how do you accidentally drink too much and crash your car the night before a court date , and you’re a grown ass lawyer. When she would accidentally blurt out stuff to people I side eyed her. When she agreed to be Monica’s maid of honor I thought that was dead wrong and she should’ve respectfully declined. You knew you didn’t like that girl and still showed up as her frenemy maid of honor.
The thing that made it so bad was that she specifically told Toni she would be there. So she didn’t honor what she said that she would do
The thing that made it so bad was that she specifically told Toni she would be there. So she didn’t honor what she said that she would do
Girl Joan deserved better like she just wanted to be loved and she just got played 🥺🥺🥺🥺❤️
I love Toni but she leached off Joan. I hate how they did Joan when she went to the party too. But true every time Joan had confidence or finally thought of herself, they would instantly make her feel like a horrid friend
I love Joan because I do relate to her character a lot - I am a full on Joan apologist because as you said, her issues came from family trauma and from good intentions, though that doesn’t excuse some of her behavior.
The one thing I HATED about Girlfriends was when one of the characters would go to therapy (especially Joan and Toni) and FINALLY start unraveling their issues and the show would make them just stop??? Toni finally acknowledged her fear that everyone secretly hated her, and Joan finally realized that gives so much to her friends that wouldn’t do the same for her and didn’t even know why they were her friends. But then allll that progress is undone by the end of that season.
I loved the “Just Joan” episode where she hangs up on the men she was dating AND sees Davis at the movies and she actually doesn’t turn it into this clandestine sign that she should get married for once and can just enjoy that friendly moment. But of course, by the next arc, she’s got a new man she’s obsessed with. Same with Sean, she realized mid-spill that she was acting crazy in that restaurant trying to get him back, despite him not being worth a damn, and put herself first! I wanted Joan to grow so much cause she pointed out my own issues, but then she would rewind to season 1. Same with Toni and her religious/therapy arc where it becomes a joke that she hasn’t gone back by the next season. Ugh!
I definitely think that Joan needed new friends! She was constantly giving out more than she was receiving. But it also points out to what you said about her childhood, that she was constantly seeking validation from these friendships. However, on the other hand, people do what you allow them to do I felt like Joan failed to set boundaries with people and that’s why they ran all over her.
This video is so accurate🙏🏽 and low-key triggered me, I was like Joan when I was younger now I've started to build my self confidence and recognize that I'm not everyone's servant nor am I a "selfish bitch" because I'm not going the extra mile for people who want nothing more than to use me, and are perfectly capable of going to get whatever themselves.
I can relate to Jona’s love life so much
Wow what you said is so true about them making Joan a villain once she became the It Girl and Mara really showed her true colors when creating this show and if you look into her and husband it explains so much about why Girlfriends was the show that it was…..
Joan was one of my favorites and will always be even though she could be nagging and whiny sometimes lol but I love her 💗 I couldn’t imagine anyone else playing the role of Joan besides Tracee
I agree
What about Mara and Salim? I’m apprehensive to hear…
@@Luvanmusiq I was just thinking the same thing!
@@Luvanmusiq Okay because TH-cam censors a lot of topics especially S A and other triggering topics. I can’t go into full detail but just google why ‘Love Is’ was cancelled as well as how he and his wife stole the script from a woman he was involved with.
I remember the christmas episode in I think Season 5, when Joan was out of town, and Mya, Lynn and Toni were at her house reading her diaries and bashing her. With friends like those who needs enemies 😂 It made good tv but wow...I thought this was a show about GIRLFRIENDS.
Please do a William video 😭
Great take on Joan I agree they did her wrong when she became successful…the only time I found her unbearable was season 3 the Ellis/wedding storyline and season 8 when she looked down on Aaron
Other than that lookin back this show was toxic
Also, it was lame as hell how Joan wasn’t there for Toni in the two most important things she was missing for half of the wedding chasing Ellis and then she didn’t make it to the court that really bothered me. Toni wasn’t perfect, but I’m not gonna sit here and act like Joan was perfect either. That was lame when Joan tried to take over Maya’s wedding too. In the video you mentioned the cover of the magazine thing, but nobody thought it was weird that she slept with a guy for the cover. She said she didn’t but she did. If I’m remembering correctly she said no I didn’t just sleep with you for the cover I have strong feelings , then she was playing him. I didn’t see Toni as jealous of Joan at all. I’m just commenting as I watch if this seems all over the place. Toni seemed jealous of Maya at first. She couldn’t believe Maya went to France and Maya was married with a child
I relate to Joan so much & I hate it. 😭 it’s crazy though, bc when Joan did try to put herself first everyone made her feel bad & she would end up suffering after the fact.
Well Joan was the godmother to Toni’s baby. When it coming to court case was more for the baby that the friendship. I don’t care if my friend hate me. I take my godmother’s duties seriously.
I do like Tony, but if I were Joan, I would have cut Tony out of my life long time ago. it doesn’t matter how old they get or what context, Tony was always trying to compete and one up Joan, and when she had a baby, expected Joan to just drop everything for her.
Please do Half & Half next!!
Although I do love Joan, the one area she annoyed tf out of me in were her relationships. She was always going on and on about marriage and having kids. She wouldn’t even be in a relationship with a guy for a month when she would start talking about marriage and kids, and that was very disturbing to me. The fact is that Joan was very insecure and that’s because of how everyone in her life treated her: her ugly ass mom, her dad, and even her friends. The fact that she had a 3 month rule was partially to have control over SOMETHING, and the fact that she based her self esteem off how quickly Sean tried to get her in bed. The fact that she didn’t communicate her issues with her boyfriends, and instead expected them to read her mind and play stupid little games with them was also very annoying to me. She would also jump way ahead of herself in the relationships she was in instead of just being in the relationship, and that was not a good thing for her to do, and not a good example to set for black women. Joan needed help. She truly did. And then when she got therapy to help her out with the things going on in her life, her friends even made fun of her for that. She was just unlucky, and should’ve stayed in therapy longer. Maybe then she would’ve set boundaries in her friendships, learned how to say no, and had healthier relationships!
Can you do Monica? When I watched this show when I was younger I really didn’t like her but now that I watched it as an adult she really was the best one
Her not being incorporated in that Black*ish* Scene sucked.
OMG! I must gave missed that Christmas episode, so they trashed her home because they didn't like her gifts.... what?? 😟
Joan needed new friends lol.
I would love a breakdown on William! This breakdown was brilliant thank you!
I remember watching this show with my mom but only having vague recollection of it (i really only liked Joan and Lynn only for the fashion aspect). So when i rewatched the show back in HS i was like "why is everyone kinda....mean??". But man, seeing Joan being this.. passive makes me sad because some girls are legit like this and people need to learn to set boundaries in order to have healthy relationships and mental peace.
Thank you for doing this! It’s like everyone just focused on the last season without knowing Joan as a person throughout the show.
On another note:
You should do something similar with Sex and the City! Rewatching it is actually annoying with some topics as presented in girlfriends.
I have noticed that Girlfriends and the Proud Family shows that black girls and women can only have toxic friendships. The mc friends are very mean spirited to the main character.
I remember that episode where Maya, Toni, and Lynn jacked up her house and her stuff on purpose bc she didn’t get them the Christmas gifts they wanted…like how trifling can you be bruh. And I’m not saying Joan was without her own faults but the way they walked all over her and expected her to take it/eventually forgive them was so damn inconsiderate and borderline cruel. You don’t do your friends like that. All of these women needed serious therapy. Or at least one good ass whoopen, lol. And I’d argue Maya was the most ungrateful after Lynn too. With all that being said however, I do think they all loved each other dearly deep down, but the way they showed it was bare minimum at times or flat out not at all. As for Joan’s character, I just wish she had a solid win for once. Especially when it came to her love life. At some point it just felt like trauma porn good lord. Loved your viewpoints and commentary! You’re a very talented and insightful individual❤️I appreciate these videos so much…it feels like a love letter to my childhood. Kinda like girl talk over fashion and being a black woman maneuvering through life. Anyway I’m just rambling now😭🫶🏾
She did get a win in love when she got engaged an moved with her soon to be husband
@@nakithajones that’s true! But then he had to go back to the army after they drafted him. I just felt like she always had another shoe dropping on her
The episode where they did that to her house disgusts me
On paper, I get why Joan was looked at as the bag guy, with her and Toni's break up. However, Joan has ALWAYS been through friend who's always there for others, while not having much for herself.
They show was ao Cattyly written and bad. As Joan&Toni should've remained Friends and Toni could've had her Therapy Sessions shown more and had Joan with her. The Showrunner dropped so.many Balls. Even though Hollywood did have an Writer's Strike during both her Series.
I noticed depending where you’re from then being fake or toxic is something that’s seen as the norm. We’re from NY so that fake, nice nasty, or staying friends with someone for convenience we don’t really do , we’re very straight forward and have a low tolerance for that behavior. The way Maya, Lynn, and Toni treated Joan were disgusting and I would’ve banged all 3 of their heads together lmao 😂 And Toni having the nerve to pop slick in Joan’s face about her purchasing a car….. babyyyyy Joan was good because I would’ve had Toni in a corner crying somewhere 😂
You've absolutely right in this video. Look, I love this show & Joan was my favorite of the girlfriends. However, it always drove me crazy how she would go to the Ends of the Earth to solve other people's problems but not be able to solve her own. I just wish they made her stand up for herself more often
I definitely can relate to that pain/frustration with a father not making an effort to see how you are while he’s in town visiting but act as if/claims to love you when face to face or over a phone call/text (it’s more hurtful when you have to find out via social media).
I can understand this perspective, but during that season of the show, Joan was handling situations in MESSED UP ways, though. I think that’s why people were looking at her that way. 6:02
I literally JUST rewatched the show and I realized that Toni is usually the main focus of their relationship, but naw, Joan had her faults in the relationship too. Joan would be there for Toni when it came to small things, but when it came to IMPORTANT events in Toni’s life, Joan would CONSISTENTLY not show up.
Ex #1: When Toni wanted to start her own Real Estate business, it was Joan that basically talked her down.
Ex #2: Toni’s Wedding
Ex #3: Morgan’s Custody battle, which Joan AGREED to show up for. Toni didn’t feel entitled to have Joan there. Joan was her MAIN witness and also AGREED to be there.
I agree, Joan should have been more selfish in her life, but she would choose the WRONG times to be selfish and that’s why it usually worked against her every time.
I can relate to Joan I used to be a people pleaser buying gifts for former friends and be apart of their families and their success. But with all that I had my own stuff going on they became jealous and envious and cut me off. I recently just had another cut me off wow after letting him in rent free , just contribute to food , then breaks rules and brought a stranger in my home. Got the balls to get mad at me the way I reacted after waking me and keeping up noise. Told him to take his guest home then got pissed and said he’s packing up leaving going back on HIS word it will never happen again after being drunk all night Fine See ya. I set boundaries and he ends the friendship with me. Wow ok ! It’s with men too jealousy is a real thing in black/puerto rican community, some have mommy and daddy issues and expect you to give them everything , but when say “no”then they get upset and cut you off. Unlike Joan there is a line and if they leave they never really was a friend of mine. Real friends respect your boundaries and give back, and have empathy on what you are going through and care about your success, point blank period.
throughout my teens and even early adulthood I would refer to myself as Joan Clayton lol I really related to this character.
If you have seen the Girlfriends spin-off, The Game, would you be interested in doing a video on Joan's cousin Melanie Barnet
Seeing this pop up while I’m watching girlfriends season 2 (which was the season she was disrespected most)
I agree with everything that you said, Joan was always there for her friends and was the best friend out of all of them, to the point where she did way too much for them. She was not a perfect friend (with her telling Greg about Clay and all), but she was always good friend. And she 100% deserved to feel herself and enjoy being the it girl when her sports bar was a hit. Her friends didn’t contribute a single thing to her success in the restaurant and Lynn and Maya truly needed to be slapped for mooching off her restaurant when it was struggling. Any time Joan couldn’t be the butt of their jokes they were nasty and jealous of her and that wasn’t right. When she didn’t have a man they made fun of her. When she didn’t have a job they made fun of her. When she set boundaries for all of them they were shady and nasty towards her. When she was popular and enjoying the spotlight they hated on her. When William paid for a vacation for the two of them they all got jealous of her and trashed her house. Wtf????? Like honestly what kind of friends were they. Even when Joan got engaged, both Toni and Monica made fun of the size of Joan’s engagement ring. Joan never did anything like that to them, and it was really messed up. I would’ve stopped being friend with all of them a long time ago if I were her. And also, SCREW Lynn’s culture vulture ass sister. She was terrible in every way: telling Joan she didn’t act black, wearing black hairstyles, saying by the N word, and calling black men “brothas”? I thought Maya’s stupid ass was going to check her as well, but she encouraged Lynn’s sister. When I stream Girlfriends, I always skip that episode. Every time.
This is crazy because I see a lot of myself in Joan because Joan is my favorite character of Girlfriends as well as Lynn
It’s interesting how they managed to make Joan and Lynn somewhat likable. Through all of their flaws, they were still very much relatable and likable. Ppl can always find some silver lining when it comes to them. But Toni and maya were annoying selfish judgmental argumentative and generally unlikable. I strongly disliked Toni back then even though Joan was just as shallow.
Well I think it's because Joan & Lynn were able to keep that charm and somewhat Selflessness factor about them unlike Toni and Mya
YESSS to Beyonce's "My House" being added. I love that you're apart of the hive 🐝 lol I need to learn to clear the girls in a classy way like you do lmao I agree with how toxic the friend group was and I hate how people try to make excuses for it because of when the show came out. It doesn't matter when it came out it should never be okay to treat your friends like this. I expect that behavior from teenagers not grown women who know better it was absurd I love Joan and I loved her and William's friendship and I don't like that they made them a couple in the show, it was so unnecessary and lazy writing 🙄
I really never liked any of the men that played love interest for this cast…Its like they couldnt find any decent actors or men worth being a partner 😂 thats one thing that always bothered me with this show.
Joan gave big Scorpio energy
Whew almost 30 MINUTES?! Let me grab some snacks 🍿 yes gather the girls up real quick 😂 because they love coming online and crunching on their keyboards over an opinion some people are in desperate need of therapy and self love
My sis lost herself in season 6 a tad bit 😔
Do one on Monica and William ❤️
We’re talking about the early 2000s. Mara has already stated she knew woman like this which is why she created these characters. I think people were way more involved in their friends lives back in the day than today. Their dynamic was absolutely horrible but that’s what made it entertaining. I think the women who kept this show alive back in the day could see themselves in part of each of these characters regardless of the scenarios they made up for the show. So yes, it is just a TV show of a particular ERA of sitcom.
Im not even done with the show but the way Toni was making fun of Joan's ring when Brock proposed to Joan made me have no faith for their friendship in the future.
Toni got her karma in so many ways for that and I love it lol
I love these takes ❤ I loved your one on Toni and Mya I was excited to see this drop. Please keep going
To me Joan was TVs first "Neurotic Black Woman" which i never saw before.(she wasnt that Strong Black Woman trope or a totally submissive partner, she was in the middle, a bit confusing, sometimes a little too vulnerable etc)
I love these videos makes me feel homey, like it makes me feel nostalgic 🫶🏼🤍
Can you do a dive/review on Joan’s cousin Melanie Barnett from the game? I just recently rewatched all these shows after giving birth and I didn’t realize how toxic Melanie was until rewatching the show as an adult lol
Oh yh Melanie was toxic I couldn't stand her after a while.😄
yaayyyyy so glad you were able to upload it!
I was the Joan In my friends group I now have no friends and I’m ok with that
The disclaimer in the beginning is giving Monica Charles Brooks I love ittttt lolllll
Kind of makes sense that some of that toxicity spilled over into The Game via Melanie & Derwin, being that Toni and Melanie are cousins...
I remember when Lynn stood up to Joan and Maya because they didn't like the fact she was singing at a karaoke nar
Thanks for uploading a scary situation happened at work recently
Joan is like Penny Proud
I loved everything about this video. You covered al the topics in depth.