Thank you. My hope was that people would be able to see the railroad with a better understanding of what they are seeing and that other departments would better understand signaling.
@@MarkClayMcGowan Note to MCM: I think that you are succeeding very well in achieving your goals. Your videos are EXTREMELY well made. Ontario, Canada. 2021/04/20.
Here in northern Minnesota all of these power switches have an accompanying propane-powered heating device that runs 24/7 keeping the mechanisms in an un-frozen condition. Loved the video, thanks.
I work for Metra in Chicago as a Maintainer and I just wanted to thank you for the video. We really don’t have M23s anymore up here, we moved to GRS or Union switches. But this video was really good
I've seen the Metra station in Chicago (I did some training back there) and BOY, what a tangle! I don't envy the maintainers there! Thanks for the compliment and for checking it out!
We use the same Union (now Siemens) switch machines here in Australia, very reliable and rugged design. Never seen one fail in my entire career. Though the detection contacts are different and a little finicky to the untrained eyes. Quite a nice video showing us how things are done across the Pacific. Cheers.
I've never seen the guts of these. It's interesting watching them work but I was usually on a train and my conductor only had to deal with them if they didn't work, which was very rarely (or a test). Thank you!
Thank you for checking it out! The M-23 is pretty bulletproof and we rarely have trouble with the machine. It's usually the track structure that causes the problems. Thanks again for checking out my channel!
Thanks! We had some 110v Grand Masters (?) when we took over the BNSF/UP interlocking in Bakersfield, but soon swapped them out for M23s. Thanks for checking it out!
In UK lots of signalling points failures. BR started installing hydraulic points Clamp locks, they kept failing, When ASE was told by Chairman BR Board that he was to be sacked in 6 months time unless failures dropped, he sent out questionnaire to reduce failures. I recommended Clamp locks be abolished, replaced by HW style point machines.
If I am reading this correctly, you are at CP. Cable on the Union Pacific Mojave Subdivision. This control point appears to be between MP 356 and 357. If I know this sub, it stretches south into Colton Yard where it meets up with the Yuma and Alhambra Subs, and into Bakersfield where it meets the Fresno Sub near crossing number 757198D.
You are reading it correctly. Cable is CPSP356 as they apply CP numbers to the closest MP. The last crossing at the north end of the sub is 30th & M but the subs change at CPSP311 Bakersfield about a mile further west (north) where single track starts to the north (west). I don't know if you've caught my series of trains at Control Points. I have a playlist of those I've caught so far. Thanks for checking it out!
@@newwomyn yes they are. They moved the valley and Tehachapi dispatchers to California for awhile sometime back but they've been back in Omaha quite awhile.
@@MarkClayMcGowan If I may say, thank you to all the signal men and women that go out on back roads in all kinds of weather, keeping the infrastructure of our railroads running. I have nothing but the deepest respects for everything our nations railroaders do everyday to keep this country working and moving. Taking care of the High Iron takes dedication and a can do attitude. By yhr way, I live near the UPRR Wagoner Subdivision running from Van Buren Arkansas to Coffeyville Kansas. I saw the 4014 Big Boy on the Wagoner Subdivision in Claremore Oklahoma on Florence Avenue at Crossing Number 428370P, and at MP 609.430 on the sub.
@@newwomyn thank you! I loved signal work but I'm glad I'm retired. We all appreciate those who appreciate what we do and dont just holler at us when they drive by a malfunctioning crossing! I live in Bakersfield where the Mojave and Fresno subs split and where the BNSF and UP split as well. You should check out my facebook @Mark Mcgowan.
I am always impressed by the reliability and overall fail-safe design of railway signaling equipment. In this case however, I hasten to add that I am somewhat chagrined to see the highly fouled nature of the ballast, particularly in the area of the switch points. This is something that adversely affects the mechanical properties of the sub-grade, as an excessive accumulation of fines greatly impedes drainage - this is reflected by the water puddling in the tie cribs. This situation requires immediate maintenance, particularly since this is on a high-traffic main line trackage. 2021/10/27. Ontario, Canada.
That would have been difficult without someone else either doing the work or the shooting. Both of which I was loathe to request. I knew I was retiring so I didn't care what UP thought but I didn't want to get anyone else in hot water! Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Note to MCM: I would hope that UP recognizes, and appreciates, that you are a good "Ambassador" for the Railways. Such good PR just cannot be "bought" through the usual marketing channels. Ontario, Canada. 2021/04/20.
Thanks for making and sharing these videos, Mark. Would you be willing to make a video explaining how a dispatcher's command to line a powered switch and clear a signal actually goes from their computer to the field and how the confirmation is sent back? You had said something about the signal getting into the control house via radio in this video, but I wondered if the entirety of the system is linked radio-to-radio or via landlines or some combination of both.
Pretty cool video. I’m a signal maintainer for metro north railroad. We use m23s and m3s. Nice to see a different maintainers view on machines. What kind of track circuits do you guys have out there? We use DC, AC, phase selective, microlok, VPI, tru 2, and genrecode. Do you guys use CAB or wayside signals? Very interested.
I no longer have the opportunity since I retired unless I run across a machine in one of the storage yards. If I happen to find one I'll go over adjustments. Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Sorry, I missed you were retired! Thanks for the reply. The workings always facinated me. Perhaps you could tip off a few younger techs that there is an audience for this kind of content. Be well!
Another great video. How often in your inspections on power switches did you find a point gap? The hand throws on the museum RR I've helped at seems like we were always adjusting them
Gaps more than a business card width are actually pretty rare. Unless the track structure is very weak or the switch machine or connection to the points is badly worn, they stay pretty solid. Hand throws are a different story. They don't have the solid locking mechanisms a power switch has so there is more room for problems. Still, a point gapped more than 1/4" will put the signals to stop (or it should!), sending us out to make the proper adjustments. We don't mess with switches in non signaled track but the track inspectors stay on top of those as well. Stay tuned for my next "How It Works" piece. It will be on hand throw switches. Thanks for the questions and comments!
My pleasure doing the videos and I'm glad you like them. I won't be doing anything on the Alstoms because we don't use them around here. The M-23 is the only one I'm experienced with. Thanks for checking it out!
Thanks Mark for all the great videos. I have some questions that are about train movement signaling (control circuits from one signal to the next) rather than switch machines. At about 12:45 in this video I can see a pole behind you with open wire going left and right in the video frame. Are those open wires circuits still active and in use? Or are they abandoned in place and train movement signaling wires all underground now? If underground, what size wires are used for control circuits sent to the next signal down the road? Also what sort of voltages and currents are used for control circuits sent to the next signal down the road? I guess I'm assuming it's a simple "apply a voltage at the near end and that will pull in a relay at the far end". Or have things like that moved to audio modem tones with small microcomputers at each end, so that multiple on/off control circuits can be created from one twisted pair of wire/cable? Sorry for the stream of consciousness format of my questions :-)
Well, shoot! I think you answered my questions above in your video on Signaling, which I just found. From that video it sounds like there's some sort of pulse coded communications from one signal location to the next location and the tracks themselves are the communications path. Is that correct?
@@ad7i-Radio519 i was going to suggest you watch all my "railroad signaling explained" videos as well as the two on "what railroad signals mean" and the one about the poleline and how it worked. I actually hope you eventually watch ALL my stuff! To answer your question, yes. Pulsed signals are transmitted on the rails. Voltage is usually 1-2 volts DC and around 1 amp. Different pulse lengths and times tell each location what to do such as what color the signal should be, tumble down (putting all opposing signals to stop once a route is cleared), clear block, etc. Receiving no pulse is a red. We still use straight DC track circuits that operate electromagnetic realys in certain applications. Stay tuned. More to come. Thanks for the questions and I hope I answered them here and in my videos. Thanks for checking out my channel!
and I thought the switches were rough on my territory. The insulation on those gauge plates are horrific and that throw rod is made to go around corners.
They changed everything but the machine there about a month after I shot this. It was the last big project in which I was involved. Thanks for checking it out!
Hello I have been a signal maintainer for about 2 and a half years and work for a transit system in Cleveland. I enjoy your videos and came across this one and it leads me to my question....I was wondering if you could put out a video on floating the 23 machine? Do you use 3/8 or 1/4? Also what is your open point to rail measurement?
I'm retired now so I can't do anything involving the inner workings of signal equipment but to float the lock rod we backed off the basket, inserted the 3/8 gauge, loosened the lock rod and manipulted it to allow the machine to complete its movement with the gauge in and ensured latchout engaged and the indication contacts remained up and shunted. We used a 3/8" gauge because we had latchout devices. Without them the requirement is 1/4". If I remember correctly the open point measurement was 4 3/4" but don't hold me to that! Thanks for the question, comments and for checking out my channel!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thank you for responding and a 3/8 is what the f r a says to use but our Transit System. Decided to go no more restrictive at 1/4. Which is causing the following problem. Our machine with 1/4 obstruction Goes into core and maintainers have been moving the lock rod. So that it doesn't go into core. But that still does not resolve the issue of the machine going into core with a 1/4 and when we tried to float the rod to make the adjustment. Then we wind up not having enough adjustment on the rod or on the point. Do you have any suggestions? Or do you know of anyone who uses 1/4 inch obstruction On the 23 machine. Again I've only been doing this for a couple of years and hope I'm explaining it correctly
We are having an internal discussion in Cleveland on floating the lock rod with a 1/4 or 3/8 obstruction. As of now our M3 machines will indicate if lock rod is floated with a 1/4 and we believe that is due to worn bushings.
a few years ago we ran one of those type of switches got by the stop signal too, no derailment but we sure messed up that switch machine and got called in for investigation.
If you lose commercial power what happens to the signals. I heard a maintainer on the scanner drop commercial power after the last car went by, but the signal dropped in the face of the front end and the engineer had to put it in emergency. And everyone was pissed on the radio.
What’s the safety protocol while you guys are working in or near the right of way? Are train operators able to call/select their signal or switch themselves or all movements controlled by the dispatcher? In light rail, TriMet, trains are able to push a button in the cab to automatically call their signals and switches but when there’s maintenance in or near the right of way trains have to stop and call dispatch before selecting their signal at the nearest station or signal before the workers. (Call boars are usually set up with a set of train orders)
If you go to my playlist called "How Things Work on the Railroad", there is a video called "How Roadway Workers Protect Themselves" in which I explain the different ways. I hope you enjoy it and thanks for checking it out!
I'd like to see what a 20V machine looks like in the field being powered over, we used to have 32V 5H machines, and I thought those were slow, everything we have now is 110V whether it be an M23 or a 5F machime
With these, the gearing determines how fast they throw. We used two different gear types but mostly the slow ones, which I liked because you have ample warning that something is going on! Thanks for checking it out!
Another interesting video I watched several times. 3 questions for ya. Can the main office in Omaha throw any power switch remotely? When local yard managers throw the switch remotely, how long does it take for the cycle to complete, from click of his mouse to final stop movement of the point. And do you know if 5G technology will be used in the future?
Thanks for the video content! Excuse me for butting in, I would appreciate your thoughts. Have you heard about - Januke Henatalie Formula (do a search on google)? It is a good one of a kind product for operating a model railroad minus the hard work. Ive heard some unbelievable things about it and my friend at very last got amazing results with it.
The Harriman Dispatch Center in Omaha is divided into regions and subdivisions. Each dispatcher controls a specific territory and can only dispatch trains and operate the switches and signals in that territory. How long it takes a switch to throw depends on the type. In big classification yards like Colton, they are air operated and controlled by the yardmaster. They throw in less than a second. Some AC switches throw in about five seconds. The DC switches as shown in the video take 10-15 seconds depending on gearing. As to the 5G question, that's a Communications Dept. thing but if UP believes it will pad the bottom line they will make it happen. Thanks for the comment and for checking it out!
@@josuereyes8223 I have no clue about model railroading or what does or doesn't make it work well...just the real thing! Thanks for checking out my channel!
I'm not very knowledgeable on these kinds of things, but I can't help but wonder if this switch would alert someone if someone shoved a piece of thick metal or a rock between the tracks at the switch to keep it from fully working. I know where I live, whoever does the switching sometimes cuts it way too close for comfort in my opinion. There is a siding that is used to let priority trains or opposing trains pass. More than a few times I have seen a train just finish entering the siding when the oncoming train is less than a few hundred feet from the switch doing at least 45mph.
These have overload circuits. If the switch doesn't complete it's requested move within about 20 seconds, the dispatcher will try it one more time then call the signal maintainer to investigate. In signaled territory trains can't be closer than one signal block (usually about two miles) from another train or a switch not properly lined. Once a train clears the main going into a siding and the switch is back in normal position, the signals on the main will clear for that move.
Everything is analog, the point detector rod moves a set of contacts. If the contacts are not in the proper position, the train will not get a signal to proceed across the switch.
That generally happens when the point detector is adjusted too tight or the track structure is very poor. As a train passes over the contacts will open and close causing the light to flash on the dispatcher's board. When a signal cannot be cleared due a switch out of correspondence it may have been left in the wrong position after being thrown in hand (more common at a crossover) and will have to be set back to the position the dispatcher is showing then placed back in motor. Thanks for the question and for checking it out!
Heck, it varies from sub to sub on the UP. At SP with your butt toward Frisco, the left track was always the #1 and was a westbound track, #2 the other way. Westbound signals were always odd numbers. Whatever SP had, UP changed. I can't speak for other roads
Up here in Canada, we consider the tracks East and West-running. We do have some North-South oriented tracks, but we still consider them as E-W, same as Air Traffic control considers flights either Eastbound or Westbound depending on the compass heading from origin to destination. If you were standing on a double main, they would refer to either the North track, or the South track, because the tracks run East-West, and one is North of the other, the other is South of the North. If you get into triple main or more than triple (rare), they will revert to numbers, and it has been my experience that the North-most track is considered the #1 track, and each track South of that will be #2, #3, etc. If there is any quadruple main track in Canada, I don't know about it. The East and West thing also determines how a train is numbered. Just like airlines flights, anything running or flying Eastbound, gets an even number. East=Even. Anything running or flying WB would be an odd number. As Mark mentioned in his reply before mine, tracks can be considered as Westbound track and Eastbound track, but the way CN runs things, you seem to see more traffic running on the opposite track than sticking to the rule-of-thumb. There are many reasons why this happens, from Passenger trains that need to use certain track to embark/disembark passengers, to work trains working on repairs, to local trains delivering and shunting on spurs, many more reasons. Most railways try to set up signals for trains that could be approaching from either side in either direction. A number of years ago, there was a severe ice storm that lasted 4-5 days in Ontario and Quebec. Large swaths of areas were without power, and batteries were depleted. CP had a double main at the time that ran from Smiths Falls, Ontario to Montreal, Quebec. That track at that time was ABS signaling, so the solution to avoid trains having to stop at every "dark" signal, was to "run the trains backwards" against the signals, meaning that they would run EB trains on the so-called Westbound track, and that eliminated or reduced trains stopping at every dark signal and calling in for permission to pass a red or dark signal. Okay, so it's more complicated than that, but I don't have the time, space, or patience to break it right down beyond that.
These ties and rods were all changed out about a month after this was shot. I just knew I wouldn't have the time to do this again in an out of the way place before I retired.
The channel is loaded with trains at crossings and if you go to the playlist "How The Signal System Works" you'll find an in depth video about how crossings work. Thanks for checking it out!
Try calling a route and getting a clear signal, I would bet your switch then "locks' on your LCP. Its showing normal or reverse, but its not locking because you haven't established a route.
the board shows the switch locked any time it is locked. if not, the route wouldn't clear. also, if you had to clear a signal every time it locked, you'd have to run or cancel time (which is a pain with this system) when testing. also, you'd have to get track and time from the preceding to the distant CP rather than just foul time at the CP. sorry for no caps. i'm in a cast! thanks for checking it out!
Motor voltages vary. Ours are all 20 volts but some are 120v AC. I've heard about 40 volt but have never seen one. Our signal and crossing circuits (including gate mechs and indication circuits in switch machines) is 13-15v DC. Voltages used to push frequencies on tracks and various equipment is in the millivolt range, some DC some AC depending on the application. Thanks for asking and thanks for checking out my channel!
Thanks for that. I’ve always been interested in rail signals. Our Australian ones are all very similar to USA. I hope one day to get a set of rail signals.
At various times I’ve read about discussions concerning EMP’s . Is traffic control equipment invulnerable or vulnerable to electromagnetic pulses? I wonder whether our infrastructure is vulnerable to foreign governments trying to overthrow our government and commerce.
Not Mark but a signal maintainer, fingers are more common than feet and it happens every few years. You can usually save the fingers, but you'll never use them again. It's a huge safety issue, so much so that anyone on a qualifying test who puts their fingers in an open switch point will fail immediately.
Yeah, usually if something falls into an open point, you don’t ever put your fingers in there. At any moment, the dispatcher can request that switch be thrown, and it only takes 3 seconds for that switch to throw. We usually find a stick, or our radio antennas, bosset tool, or whatever to get it out. If you must, and absolutely must put your hand in there, you are to call the dispatcher, get time, and then disable that switch by killing power to it, before even thinking about putting your hand in there. Even then, it’s bad practice. Just use a stick or something to get it out. Shit happens, but nothing is worth losing a finger if you don’t have too.
We replaced the switch ties and track reconditioned the ballast soon after this was shot. When I took the district over I was surprised at how little maintenance had been done on such an important piece of railroad. Thanks for checking out my channel!
Gauge plate insulation looks like shit too. Amazing that anyone would leave it that way for you. Either the supervisor never gave a shit, or the FRA never showed up there!
@@dsma2023 including me there had been ten maintainers on that district in four years none of whom had plans on sticking around. The only time I saw the FRA we were out on the branch lines!
I had foul time at the control point. I didn't publish the video until after I retired, which I knew was close when I shot the video. The location was slated for tie replacement and that happened a few weeks later. Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Hi Mark. Seriously, I enjoy watching your tutorials on how all this equipment we maintain work. Well spoken and well thought out so that the average person can somewhat understand. I work for one of the busiest railroads in the country. We have movable bridges, tons of grade crossings, interlocking plants every few miles. It can get pretty crazy out there sometime. But nice work on the vids.
I was a Signalman for 25 yrs @ NYCT 1991-2016, and your video is top shelf.Thankyou.
Thank you! I really appreciate the praise of a fellow signalman!
Thanks for checking it out!
From a technical aspect, your videos have opened a new window into railroad videos that is to be commended. Great video.
Enjoy your retirement.
Thank you. My hope was that people would be able to see the railroad with a better understanding of what they are seeing and that other departments would better understand signaling.
Also, I am enjoying the heck out of retirement!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Note to MCM: I think that you are succeeding very well in achieving your goals. Your videos are EXTREMELY well made. Ontario, Canada. 2021/04/20.
Here in northern Minnesota all of these power switches have an accompanying propane-powered heating device that runs 24/7 keeping the mechanisms in an un-frozen condition. Loved the video, thanks.
I work for Metra in Chicago as a Maintainer and I just wanted to thank you for the video. We really don’t have M23s anymore up here, we moved to GRS or Union switches. But this video was really good
I've seen the Metra station in Chicago (I did some training back there) and BOY, what a tangle! I don't envy the maintainers there! Thanks for the compliment and for checking it out!
We use the same Union (now Siemens) switch machines here in Australia, very reliable and rugged design. Never seen one fail in my entire career. Though the detection contacts are different and a little finicky to the untrained eyes.
Quite a nice video showing us how things are done across the Pacific. Cheers.
I've never seen the guts of these. It's interesting watching them work but I was usually on a train and my conductor only had to deal with them if they didn't work, which was very rarely (or a test). Thank you!
Thank you for checking it out! The M-23 is pretty bulletproof and we rarely have trouble with the machine. It's usually the track structure that causes the problems.
Thanks again for checking out my channel!
Mark: I ride on Amtrak several times and they use the tracks that are owned by other companies. It is nice to hear it is all about safety.
Have very few M23 switch machines on my railroad. 5f switch machines mostly. Great video.
Thanks! We had some 110v Grand Masters (?) when we took over the BNSF/UP interlocking in Bakersfield, but soon swapped them out for M23s.
Thanks for checking it out!
In UK lots of signalling points failures. BR started installing hydraulic points Clamp locks, they kept failing, When ASE was told by Chairman BR Board that he was to be sacked in 6 months time unless failures dropped, he sent out questionnaire to reduce failures. I recommended Clamp locks be abolished, replaced by HW style point machines.
great video. I learn something new from each one of your videos.
Your lock light will light up when a signal is lined. Over all good briefing
If I am reading this correctly, you are at CP. Cable on the Union Pacific Mojave Subdivision. This control point appears to be between MP 356 and 357. If I know this sub, it stretches south into Colton Yard where it meets up with the Yuma and Alhambra Subs, and into Bakersfield where it meets the Fresno Sub near crossing number 757198D.
You are reading it correctly. Cable is CPSP356 as they apply CP numbers to the closest MP. The last crossing at the north end of the sub is 30th & M but the subs change at CPSP311 Bakersfield about a mile further west (north) where single track starts to the north (west). I don't know if you've caught my series of trains at Control Points. I have a playlist of those I've caught so far.
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Are you all still dispatching out of Omaha?
@@newwomyn yes they are. They moved the valley and Tehachapi dispatchers to California for awhile sometime back but they've been back in Omaha quite awhile.
@@MarkClayMcGowan If I may say, thank you to all the signal men and women that go out on back roads in all kinds of weather, keeping the infrastructure of our railroads running.
I have nothing but the deepest respects for everything our nations railroaders do everyday to keep this country working and moving. Taking care of the High Iron takes dedication and a can do attitude. By yhr way, I live near the UPRR Wagoner Subdivision running from Van Buren Arkansas to Coffeyville Kansas.
I saw the 4014 Big Boy on the Wagoner Subdivision in Claremore Oklahoma on Florence Avenue at Crossing Number 428370P, and at MP 609.430 on the sub.
@@newwomyn thank you! I loved signal work but I'm glad I'm retired. We all appreciate those who appreciate what we do and dont just holler at us when they drive by a malfunctioning crossing!
I live in Bakersfield where the Mojave and Fresno subs split and where the BNSF and UP split as well.
You should check out my facebook @Mark Mcgowan.
Another great video. I learn so much from your videos.
Perfect as usual, Mark!
And as usual, I appreciate the compliment!
Interesting video! Interesting seeing how the switch works.
I am always impressed by the reliability and overall fail-safe design of railway signaling equipment. In this case however, I hasten to add that I am somewhat chagrined to see the highly fouled nature of the ballast, particularly in the area of the switch points. This is something that adversely affects the mechanical properties of the sub-grade, as an excessive accumulation of fines greatly impedes drainage - this is reflected by the water puddling in the tie cribs. This situation requires immediate maintenance, particularly since this is on a high-traffic main line trackage. 2021/10/27. Ontario, Canada.
As always your videos are very interesting , thanks for sharing them . Take care .
Thank you!
Love to see you make adjustments to the locking and detection / maintaining M23
That would have been difficult without someone else either doing the work or the shooting. Both of which I was loathe to request.
I knew I was retiring so I didn't care what UP thought but I didn't want to get anyone else in hot water!
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Note to MCM: I would hope that UP recognizes, and appreciates, that you are a good "Ambassador" for the Railways. Such good PR just cannot be "bought" through the usual marketing channels. Ontario, Canada. 2021/04/20.
@@paul-andrelarose3389 Alas, that is not how railroad corporate thinks about things.
Thanks for making and sharing these videos, Mark. Would you be willing to make a video explaining how a dispatcher's command to line a powered switch and clear a signal actually goes from their computer to the field and how the confirmation is sent back? You had said something about the signal getting into the control house via radio in this video, but I wondered if the entirety of the system is linked radio-to-radio or via landlines or some combination of both.
In the playlist of this video is one at a control point. I explain it all in that video!
I really like your videos. This one is also good. Thanks for sharing it.
My pleasure.
Pretty cool video. I’m a signal maintainer for metro north railroad. We use m23s and m3s. Nice to see a different maintainers view on machines. What kind of track circuits do you guys have out there? We use DC, AC, phase selective, microlok, VPI, tru 2, and genrecode. Do you guys use CAB or wayside signals? Very interested.
Most interesting...now I know something new! Thank You!
My pleasure!
You really should go deeper into detail some time. A lot of us love to geek out on the little stuff. Great vid!
I no longer have the opportunity since I retired unless I run across a machine in one of the storage yards. If I happen to find one I'll go over adjustments.
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Sorry, I missed you were retired! Thanks for the reply. The workings always facinated me. Perhaps you could tip off a few younger techs that there is an audience for this kind of content. Be well!
@@outspokeninsider752 they'd get in trouble. I did it because I knew I was leaving.
Another great video. How often in your inspections on power switches did you find a point gap? The hand throws on the museum RR I've helped at seems like we were always adjusting them
Gaps more than a business card width are actually pretty rare. Unless the track structure is very weak or the switch machine or connection to the points is badly worn, they stay pretty solid.
Hand throws are a different story. They don't have the solid locking mechanisms a power switch has so there is more room for problems. Still, a point gapped more than 1/4" will put the signals to stop (or it should!), sending us out to make the proper adjustments. We don't mess with switches in non signaled track but the track inspectors stay on top of those as well.
Stay tuned for my next "How It Works" piece. It will be on hand throw switches.
Thanks for the questions and comments!
Thanks for your videos! Hope to see video about Alstom 5F and 5H switch machine)))
My pleasure doing the videos and I'm glad you like them. I won't be doing anything on the Alstoms because we don't use them around here. The M-23 is the only one I'm experienced with.
Thanks for checking it out!
Thanks Mark for all the great videos. I have some questions that are about train movement signaling (control circuits from one signal to the next) rather than switch machines. At about 12:45 in this video I can see a pole behind you with open wire going left and right in the video frame. Are those open wires circuits still active and in use? Or are they abandoned in place and train movement signaling wires all underground now? If underground, what size wires are used for control circuits sent to the next signal down the road? Also what sort of voltages and currents are used for control circuits sent to the next signal down the road? I guess I'm assuming it's a simple "apply a voltage at the near end and that will pull in a relay at the far end". Or have things like that moved to audio modem tones with small microcomputers at each end, so that multiple on/off control circuits can be created from one twisted pair of wire/cable? Sorry for the stream of consciousness format of my questions :-)
Well, shoot! I think you answered my questions above in your video on Signaling, which I just found. From that video it sounds like there's some sort of pulse coded communications from one signal location to the next location and the tracks themselves are the communications path. Is that correct?
@@ad7i-Radio519 i was going to suggest you watch all my "railroad signaling explained" videos as well as the two on "what railroad signals mean" and the one about the poleline and how it worked. I actually hope you eventually watch ALL my stuff! To answer your question, yes. Pulsed signals are transmitted on the rails. Voltage is usually 1-2 volts DC and around 1 amp. Different pulse lengths and times tell each location what to do such as what color the signal should be, tumble down (putting all opposing signals to stop once a route is cleared), clear block, etc. Receiving no pulse is a red. We still use straight DC track circuits that operate electromagnetic realys in certain applications. Stay tuned. More to come. Thanks for the questions and I hope I answered them here and in my videos. Thanks for checking out my channel!
its 10/10/22. can you believe that? time flies
and I thought the switches were rough on my territory. The insulation on those gauge plates are horrific and that throw rod is made to go around corners.
They changed everything but the machine there about a month after I shot this. It was the last big project in which I was involved.
Thanks for checking it out!
is this easier to understand than the relays?
Great video, just awesome.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for checking it out!
Hello I have been a signal maintainer for about 2 and a half years and work for a transit system in Cleveland. I enjoy your videos and came across this one and it leads me to my question....I was wondering if you could put out a video on floating the 23 machine? Do you use 3/8 or 1/4? Also what is your open point to rail measurement?
I'm retired now so I can't do anything involving the inner workings of signal equipment but to float the lock rod we backed off the basket, inserted the 3/8 gauge, loosened the lock rod and manipulted it to allow the machine to complete its movement with the gauge in and ensured latchout engaged and the indication contacts remained up and shunted. We used a 3/8" gauge because we had latchout devices. Without them the requirement is 1/4".
If I remember correctly the open point measurement was 4 3/4" but don't hold me to that!
Thanks for the question, comments and for checking out my channel!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thank you for responding and a 3/8 is what the f r a says to use but our Transit System. Decided to go no more restrictive at 1/4. Which is causing the following problem. Our machine with 1/4 obstruction Goes into core and maintainers have been moving the lock rod. So that it doesn't go into core. But that still does not resolve the issue of the machine going into core with a 1/4 and when we tried to float the rod to make the adjustment. Then we wind up not having enough adjustment on the rod or on the point. Do you have any suggestions? Or do you know of anyone who uses 1/4 inch obstruction On the 23 machine. Again I've only been doing this for a couple of years and hope I'm explaining it correctly
@@quennelmarshall807 are you talking about floating the lock rod or floating the basket rod (382 test)?
@@MarkClayMcGowan we are discussing floating the lock rod for point detection
We are having an internal discussion in Cleveland on floating the lock rod with a 1/4 or 3/8 obstruction. As of now our M3 machines will indicate if lock rod is floated with a 1/4 and we believe that is due to worn bushings.
a few years ago we ran one of those type of switches got by the stop signal too, no derailment but we sure messed up that switch machine and got called in for investigation.
LOL. We've replaced quite a few that had been run through over the years.
Thanks for checking it out!
2:33 "The big fat rod, here, with the big nuts on it"
Potty humor aside I enjoy your videos
If you lose commercial power what happens to the signals. I heard a maintainer on the scanner drop commercial power after the last car went by, but the signal dropped in the face of the front end and the engineer had to put it in emergency. And everyone was pissed on the radio.
What’s the safety protocol while you guys are working in or near the right of way? Are train operators able to call/select their signal or switch themselves or all movements controlled by the dispatcher?
In light rail, TriMet, trains are able to push a button in the cab to automatically call their signals and switches but when there’s maintenance in or near the right of way trains have to stop and call dispatch before selecting their signal at the nearest station or signal before the workers. (Call boars are usually set up with a set of train orders)
If you go to my playlist called "How Things Work on the Railroad", there is a video called "How Roadway Workers Protect Themselves" in which I explain the different ways. I hope you enjoy it and thanks for checking it out!
Sold me. If I weren't 64, I'd do it.
all the ballast has broken down around those sleepers, needs repacking with new ballast.
They replaced the ties and ballast about a month after I shot this.
Cool video
I have a question?, If a railroad worker sees a rider, does he usually not say anything to the bull?
I'd like to see what a 20V machine looks like in the field being powered over, we used to have 32V 5H machines, and I thought those were slow, everything we have now is 110V whether it be an M23 or a 5F machime
With these, the gearing determines how fast they throw. We used two different gear types but mostly the slow ones, which I liked because you have ample warning that something is going on!
Thanks for checking it out!
Another interesting video I watched several times. 3 questions for ya.
Can the main office in Omaha throw any power switch remotely?
When local yard managers throw the switch remotely, how long does it take for the cycle to complete, from click of his mouse to final stop movement of the point.
And do you know if 5G technology will be used in the future?
Thanks for the video content! Excuse me for butting in, I would appreciate your thoughts. Have you heard about - Januke Henatalie Formula (do a search on google)? It is a good one of a kind product for operating a model railroad minus the hard work. Ive heard some unbelievable things about it and my friend at very last got amazing results with it.
The Harriman Dispatch Center in Omaha is divided into regions and subdivisions. Each dispatcher controls a specific territory and can only dispatch trains and operate the switches and signals in that territory.
How long it takes a switch to throw depends on the type. In big classification yards like Colton, they are air operated and controlled by the yardmaster. They throw in less than a second. Some AC switches throw in about five seconds. The DC switches as shown in the video take 10-15 seconds depending on gearing.
As to the 5G question, that's a Communications Dept. thing but if UP believes it will pad the bottom line they will make it happen.
Thanks for the comment and for checking it out!
@@josuereyes8223 I have no clue about model railroading or what does or doesn't make it work well...just the real thing!
Thanks for checking out my channel!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thanx 4 your reply. I enjoy all your videos.
I'd like to answer your first question simply: Yes. (Unless it's in Local control mode! haha)
I'm not very knowledgeable on these kinds of things, but I can't help but wonder if this switch would alert someone if someone shoved a piece of thick metal or a rock between the tracks at the switch to keep it from fully working. I know where I live, whoever does the switching sometimes cuts it way too close for comfort in my opinion. There is a siding that is used to let priority trains or opposing trains pass. More than a few times I have seen a train just finish entering the siding when the oncoming train is less than a few hundred feet from the switch doing at least 45mph.
These have overload circuits. If the switch doesn't complete it's requested move within about 20 seconds, the dispatcher will try it one more time then call the signal maintainer to investigate.
In signaled territory trains can't be closer than one signal block (usually about two miles) from another train or a switch not properly lined. Once a train clears the main going into a siding and the switch is back in normal position, the signals on the main will clear for that move.
10:12 What do the flashing track occupancy lights on the schematic indicator mean?
Those are the signals, not the tracks. Flashing indicates the dispatcher has them blocked, which she did because I had track and time.
@@MarkClayMcGowan 1WST is a signal...?
I am assuming that Metros do not have most of these way side detectors?
I wouldn't think so, but you never know!
Are there any digital sensors in this type switch to make sure the switch is working as expected?
Everything is analog, the point detector rod moves a set of contacts. If the contacts are not in the proper position, the train will not get a signal to proceed across the switch.
Good morning from SE Louisiana 19 Mar 21.
I've looked through some of your vids but haven't seen....why do some tracks have a propane tank next to the switch house?
It's for the switch heater -- keeps them from icing up and not working in winter conditions.
Thanks perfect!!!
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for checking it out!
So I've heard the dispatcher saying that a switch is "flashing out of correspondence". What kind of issue does that indicate?
That generally happens when the point detector is adjusted too tight or the track structure is very poor. As a train passes over the contacts will open and close causing the light to flash on the dispatcher's board.
When a signal cannot be cleared due a switch out of correspondence it may have been left in the wrong position after being thrown in hand (more common at a crossover) and will have to be set back to the position the dispatcher is showing then placed back in motor.
Thanks for the question and for checking it out!
Man, look at the mud!
Yeah...it was a mess. We changed the switch ties about a month after this and fixed the cribs.
Thanks for checking it out!
good job Mark. must be nice to be able to work away from town mostly
How are tracks numbered? Does it vary from company to company? Can a normal civilian tell which track number is which? Thxs
Heck, it varies from sub to sub on the UP. At SP with your butt toward Frisco, the left track was always the #1 and was a westbound track, #2 the other way. Westbound signals were always odd numbers.
Whatever SP had, UP changed. I can't speak for other roads
Up here in Canada, we consider the tracks East and West-running. We do have some North-South oriented tracks, but we still consider them as E-W, same as Air Traffic control considers flights either Eastbound or Westbound depending on the compass heading from origin to destination. If you were standing on a double main, they would refer to either the North track, or the South track, because the tracks run East-West, and one is North of the other, the other is South of the North. If you get into triple main or more than triple (rare), they will revert to numbers, and it has been my experience that the North-most track is considered the #1 track, and each track South of that will be #2, #3, etc. If there is any quadruple main track in Canada, I don't know about it.
The East and West thing also determines how a train is numbered. Just like airlines flights, anything running or flying Eastbound, gets an even number. East=Even. Anything running or flying WB would be an odd number. As Mark mentioned in his reply before mine, tracks can be considered as Westbound track and Eastbound track, but the way CN runs things, you seem to see more traffic running on the opposite track than sticking to the rule-of-thumb. There are many reasons why this happens, from Passenger trains that need to use certain track to embark/disembark passengers, to work trains working on repairs, to local trains delivering and shunting on spurs, many more reasons. Most railways try to set up signals for trains that could be approaching from either side in either direction. A number of years ago, there was a severe ice storm that lasted 4-5 days in Ontario and Quebec. Large swaths of areas were without power, and batteries were depleted. CP had a double main at the time that ran from Smiths Falls, Ontario to Montreal, Quebec. That track at that time was ABS signaling, so the solution to avoid trains having to stop at every "dark" signal, was to "run the trains backwards" against the signals, meaning that they would run EB trains on the so-called Westbound track, and that eliminated or reduced trains stopping at every dark signal and calling in for permission to pass a red or dark signal. Okay, so it's more complicated than that, but I don't have the time, space, or patience to break it right down beyond that.
Gotta dig out those bays, and those papers have seen better days
These ties and rods were all changed out about a month after this was shot. I just knew I wouldn't have the time to do this again in an out of the way place before I retired.
We wanted to see s as rail road crossing with freight train
The channel is loaded with trains at crossings and if you go to the playlist "How The Signal System Works" you'll find an in depth video about how crossings work. Thanks for checking it out!
I waited to see the track move. Bummer.
Try calling a route and getting a clear signal, I would bet your switch then "locks' on your LCP. Its showing normal or reverse, but its not locking because you haven't established a route.
the board shows the switch locked any time it is locked. if not, the route wouldn't clear. also, if you had to clear a signal every time it locked, you'd have to run or cancel time (which is a pain with this system) when testing. also, you'd have to get track and time from the preceding to the distant CP rather than just foul time at the CP. sorry for no caps. i'm in a cast!
thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan thanks for the explanation. On my territory the switches lock pivot when a tire is cleared via the RCR and LR
Gauge plate insulation needs replaced
Need to do some digging to get rid of that wet bed by the loc rods
This was in early 2019. The ties were changed and the location tamped about a month after I made this.
What sort of voltage runs in them
Motor voltages vary. Ours are all 20 volts but some are 120v AC. I've heard about 40 volt but have never seen one.
Our signal and crossing circuits (including gate mechs and indication circuits in switch machines) is 13-15v DC.
Voltages used to push frequencies on tracks and various equipment is in the millivolt range, some DC some AC depending on the application.
Thanks for asking and thanks for checking out my channel!
Thanks for that. I’ve always been interested in rail signals. Our Australian ones are all very similar to USA. I hope one day to get a set of rail signals.
@@yappymat549 keep your ears and eyes out for roads doing signal upgrades. Here they give the old stuff away.
Really wish I was around your crew then I know a couple of blokes who are trying to legally get hold of a few things for me.
At various times I’ve read about discussions concerning EMP’s . Is traffic control equipment invulnerable or vulnerable to electromagnetic pulses? I wonder whether our infrastructure is vulnerable to foreign governments trying to overthrow our government and commerce.
All electronics are vulnerable to EMP. The RR is no exception!
Mark, have you ever heard of an animal or even a human getting a foot trapped when an automatic switch suddenly changed position?
Not Mark but a signal maintainer, fingers are more common than feet and it happens every few years. You can usually save the fingers, but you'll never use them again. It's a huge safety issue, so much so that anyone on a qualifying test who puts their fingers in an open switch point will fail immediately.
Yeah, usually if something falls into an open point, you don’t ever put your fingers in there. At any moment, the dispatcher can request that switch be thrown, and it only takes 3 seconds for that switch to throw. We usually find a stick, or our radio antennas, bosset tool, or whatever to get it out. If you must, and absolutely must put your hand in there, you are to call the dispatcher, get time, and then disable that switch by killing power to it, before even thinking about putting your hand in there. Even then, it’s bad practice. Just use a stick or something to get it out. Shit happens, but nothing is worth losing a finger if you don’t have too.
That switch is in horrible shape. Need to get that mud out.
We replaced the switch ties and track reconditioned the ballast soon after this was shot. When I took the district over I was surprised at how little maintenance had been done on such an important piece of railroad.
Thanks for checking out my channel!
Gauge plate insulation looks like shit too. Amazing that anyone would leave it that way for you. Either the supervisor never gave a shit, or the FRA never showed up there!
@@dsma2023 including me there had been ten maintainers on that district in four years none of whom had plans on sticking around. The only time I saw the FRA we were out on the branch lines!
How do you get away with filming with a cell phone in the foul of the tracks? Also, why are your cribs so full of mud?
I had foul time at the control point. I didn't publish the video until after I retired, which I knew was close when I shot the video. The location was slated for tie replacement and that happened a few weeks later.
Thanks for checking it out!
Yo, your switch needs some serious cribbing....lol...one maintainer to another...
We replaced the ties shortly after I shot this
@@MarkClayMcGowan Hi Mark. Seriously, I enjoy watching your tutorials on how all this equipment we maintain work. Well spoken and well thought out so that the average person can somewhat understand. I work for one of the busiest railroads in the country. We have movable bridges, tons of grade crossings, interlocking plants every few miles. It can get pretty crazy out there sometime. But nice work on the vids.
just curios what shows up on the dispatcher board if the switch has been run through? i think a flashing light??
Yes. It shows that the machine is not locked in either position