One of the things we today call "third places" was one of the things Jane Jacobs really advocated for. The neighborhood places where people can gather and hang out. The places so many of our urban environments lack. The Death and Life of Great American Cities is a great read. It is required reading for anyone who has urbanist "tendencies"
I read Jane jacobs book. It's a nice read for that time. As a person, though, she was a leftist. She was all about saving Pennsylvania Station in 1963 to no avail. Then formed several coalition to fight lower Manhattan proposed expressways. When Vietnam started, her son was of draft age, so she fled to Toronto Canada. When she got there, she immediately became instrumental into fighting proposed highways in Toronto.
@@scpatl4now What were the disastrous pedestrian malls built in the 1960s and drive up shopping malls in the 1970s? People basically just want to shop. They can hang out with their friends and family. It's a stupid idea.
@@Saint-Christopher You are wrong, she was an economic conservative, verging on libertarian. It goes along with her revulsion for government planning. Meanwhile, using the term 'leftist' as a slander betrays your total ignorance of political economics. It's as meaningless a catch-all as 'woke' or 'feminist', oversimplified misleading language for distracting juvenile minds.
Jane Jacobs is pretty famous. I remember reading her book "Dark Age Ahead" published in 2004 in which she predicted that poor city planning choices would doom America if things kept going in the direction they were headed. It is worth checking out and addresses more modern problems.
She wasn't wrong. The way American cities are laid out is making it impossible to phase out single-occupancy vehicles. As a result we continue to hot box ourselves into a climate catastrophe.
@@thecardsaysmoops3Reading strong towns you can really get a feel for that. So often they'll criticize a city's decision and planners will come out and defend their position, but it's usually just a defense of the status quo. My favorite was reading about a Buffalo wild wings that was built sort of in the middle of nowhere, with a huge parking lot, and being criticized for inducing drunk driving. Then a city planner came out and said, "but there's a hotel next door!" As if people are really planning a night out of drinking to go stay at a hotel right next to the bar.
As someone who doesn't live in the US, I'd only heard a bit about Moses here and there. I was expecting this story to be just another time he pushed through his vision against local opposition - I literally said to my screen "of course Moses won, he always won" in the intro. Nice to know it's not quite that black and white, and that he fell out of political popularity by the 60s.
Eisenhower was also against city highway construction. “ It’ll take twice as long, cost twice of much and then they’ll want us build parking. “ The idea of the his Highway system was to take cars to the city’s edge, to be transportation between cities. The congressional members of NewYork and California joined together to force what we have now.
heard somewhere that Eisenhower was devastated to learn that the politicos were using his highway money to massacre downtowns rather than just build autobahns
Eisenhower wanted German inspired autobahns in the USA for military logistics. He never intended the Interstate Freeway to be used by hundreds of millions of civilian cars. But at the end of the day, Eisenhower never realized that Hitler built the autobahn for commercial trucking and not for the Wehrmacht.
As it approaches metropolitan Boston, highway 2 goes from an expressway down to essentially a city street, with a massive parking garage over a subway station. This sounds like the vision that you're describing. (It does seem to work. But I've probably triggered anti park and ride sentiment among some. It's an argument to be had, but worth observing it as an example of a strategy, and its results.)
@@bearcubdaycareOne problem that I have with park and ride is that oftentimes, the highway just continues past the park and ride station. So what's the point? If the highway ended at the park and ride, that would be much more ideal, as it would basically force commuters to use the transit system or be stuck on local roads.
@@elemenopi55From what I’ve seen from most of the big urbanist channels, the general consensus seems to be that Park and Rides are bad no matter what and that all transit should be within walking of biking distance. I’ve yet to see a “Park and Rides are good, actually” video on TH-cam. Personally, I have no issue with them as long as they’re on the edge of cities and they’re full. Full Park and Rides are a good sign that suburban commuters are using transit, which can increase it’s profitability and provide better transit for anyone without a car. If they’re close to the middle of cities, then I would have an issue with them.
I shudder to think of how much less vibrant and pedestrain-friendly New York City would be if it was decimated by highways cutting through its center like so many other U.S cities. I recently graduated from NYU and it was wonderful experiencing all the neighborhoods in the area: Soho, Greenwich, Chinatown, Little Italy, etc. Yes, many of these neighborhoods are experiencing rampant gentrification, but at least they're still here and still given a chance to thrive and improve, a chance that has been denied to so many neighborhoods in other cities.
I don't think you meant to imply it but pedestrian-friendly is the last thing I think of when describing New York City. Perhaps poorly catering to pedestrians to horribly treating pedestrians if Robert Moses entirely had his way is how I would describe it.
What a surprise, an out-of-towner living in hip neighborhoods touting how good his neighborhood is while wishing people in Jersey and the other boroughs don’t come to his neighborhood
I don’t think it would have made much of a difference currently if, and only if, it was going to be a crosstown tunnel much like what happened with the George Washington bridge to the Bronx except completely underground, but it would have definitely crushed the people currently living there during it’s construction. Glad it wasn’t built. But if it was, modern day us probably wouldn’t notice a difference in what currently goes on there.
@@justSTUMBLEDupon It would have made huge differences. Lower Manhattan business needs truck to bring in supplies as well and currently they either suffer through Holland Tunnel or cross from the north and traverse down to the South
You said that Moses delivered projects "under budget". If you read "The Power Broker" you'll learn that this was often not the case--far from it. He had a strategy of obtaining what appeared to be a reasonable budget approval for many of his projects such as the Henry Hudson Parkway, only to blow through the budgets after being only about half way complete, with a construction site in place of what had formerly been there. His answer was basically: how can we stop here now? He would manage to get more money in order to complete each project.
That's typical for all infra constructions today in the US and Europe: underestimating budget to get approved, ask for more budget and time afterwards, (and even being unable to get things done). Getting over budget is typical for infra programs across the world, but poor program management on top of constantly shifting election/administrative interests has made any progress on major infrastructure blocked.
@@brmnyc Moses was a genius at that strategy and the NY Times helped him get the word out. California High Speed Rail was supposed to connect LA and San Francisco 4 years ago, but they have barely started and need another 100 billion to finish it...supposedly. Same thing, except Moses actually got useful things built.
After all that, Jane Jacobs moved to Toronto because she was opposed to the Vietnam War. There she helped to stop the construction of the Spadina Expressway which would have cut through her (and my) neighbourhood. Jane Jacobs did a lot of good.
A critical difference between Jane Jacobs and NIMYism is that Jane Jacobs stood with working class people to fight against the encroachment of wealthy suburbanites that were bleeding out cities. NIMBYism, by contrast, is mostly a phenomenon that is wealthier residents. Also, Jane Jacobs fought against highways that were of little benefit to the working class populations that had to live near them. Buses and trains, by contrast, are of great use to the vast majority of people. Highways and all of the parking moats are an inefficient use of land. Mass transit projects that NIMBYism often opposes is mostly an efficient use of space
@@johnmcmahon5225 that’s as of now. Back then, it didn’t as far as I know. It’s a number of communities that become unlivable. Same with parts of LA. Cities like Dallas and others in Texas may be on a similar trajectory. I live in Buffalo. We have had a similar trajectory in certain neighborhoods. A lot has changed in six decades. The prospect of downtowns being unaffordable was not a concern in most of the US or Canada in the 1960’s.
@@williamevans9709 The community hardly became unlivable! Up until the 1980s it was a dangerous, dirty part of town, and then the turnaround came and now it's one of the nicest places you could want to live. Low density, safe, with every amenity, but that costs money. It's called unintended consequences.
Also, “unlivable” is an ill-defined term. Unaffordable? Yes. As I said, lots of places that had a greater mixture of incomes now are out of budget for lots of people.
@@cameronreid8383because crime affects everybody in the surroundings, not only residents in those neighborhoods. I'd invite you to come over to Brazil, or any developing country, to have a concrete feel of the problem beyond liberal arts colleges' classrooms.
I realize that your video is time-constrained, but a key element of the death of the LOMEX project was Moses' big-picture plan to build THREE elevated expressways across Manhattan, at least one of which would have placed noisy, fume-spewing traffic jams right outside the windows of some of the city's most valuable commercial office buildings. This led to many powerful real estate barons turning against Bob the Builder, their former ally. It wasn't just a "grass roots" freeway revolt. He also pissed off the REAL powers that make New York City the center of the known universe. As Caro explains, the final nail in shadow emperor Moses' coffin wasn't his behind-the-scenes monkey business, his destruction of poor but functional neighborhoods, his displacement of at least 300,000 (possibly half a million) citizens, his deliberate financial sabotage of the NYC subway system, the financial failures of the 1939 and 1964 world's fairs, his ultimate bankrupting of the entire city, or any of his other famously notorious actions. It was the simple act of removing a beloved tree from Central Park and pissing off a bunch of moms.
Very well put. He also lost support when he proposed building the Battery-Brooklyn Bridge. Apparently the very long viaduct along Battery Park leading up to the bridge was going to spoil the harbor views from many Wall Street bankers' offices. He may have had an easy time displacing poor people but upsetting the wealthy, now that was a major mistake!
@@brmnyc He also wanted to demolish historic Castle Clinton. There was quite a fight between Moses and the Roosevelt administration over the bridge vs tunnel issue. Moses loved bridges because they were highly visible monuments to HIM. He hated tunnels because nobody could see them unless they were in them. Luckily, Roosevelt hated Moses so he made the Navy Department claim that a bridge would impair their access to port facilities. Obvious BS, but I like it!
@@justSTUMBLEDupon It's been a while since I read the book but, IIRC, he arranged some cooking of the books to transfer certain debt limits/obligations to the NYC Subway in order to allow his bridge & tunnel authority to issue more debt instruments to build a toll bridge (maybe the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge or the Throgs Neck?). He did THAT one with malice aforethought. He did NOT intend to bankrupt the city as a whole, but a number of people who know things posit that the insane weight of all the debt obligations associated with his road, parks, housing, and other projects (two failed World's Fairs, attracting the U.N. headquarters, etc) put the city's collective ass in a very deep crack. The city eventually solved part of its problem by doing something Moses absolutely despised -- combining the transit authority with his bridge & tunnel authority to create the MTA.
@@justSTUMBLEDupon Oh, about that tree. Moses was City Parks Commissioner for a long time and deserves credit for dramatically increasing the number of neighborhood parks and swimming pools throughout the city. He turned some truly nasty trash and coal ash dumps into magnificent parks. He's also the reason there are sportsball fields in Central Park. He evicted the sheep from Sheep Meadow in 1934 and the building that had housed them became the world-famous Tavern on the Green. In 1956, he wanted to convert a pleasantly wooded part of the park into a parking lot for the restaurant. One night, while the park was closed, he had demolition work commence and a tree was knocked down, but further demolition was stopped by threat of legal action.
Interesting how we tell the story "she was arrested but she eventually got off with just a fine", as if the idea of her being punished was reasonable at all. She was wrongfully punished for trying to help her community and I'd love to see a change in how we tell that story to better reflect that.
It's pretty sad how often that tactic is abused by city officials. There should be some recourse for individuals who are wrongly arrested like that, but I'm sure that can also backfire.
I'd love to see this continued with Jane Jacobs work here in Toronto to cancel the Spadina Expressway (Presently known as The Allen Road) which had already started construction when it was killed
When Robert Moses built the parkways to access Long Island's parks / beaches, he had low stone bridges built over them, to ensure that buses could not use them only private cars. He did not want to give access to the poor masses, only the better off.
Keep up the good work with the history of urban development! There is certainly a lot of content potential with this type of content and I'm hoping you continue making these types of videos!
Just putting out there, Nebula is an amazing platform and a member since the begining.... I love it... The curiosity stream combined was part of it for a long while, but their service was disapointing and never really used it... I love documnetries and stuff and always thought curiosity stream would be great, but the content is very sub par. Nebula, now with a whole slew of originals that you can ONLY see there, and extended/longer videos that you see on youtube, you see the extended ones there.... My fav people to watch and learn from, I love learning this way!!!!! The content is TOP NOTCH!!!! I LOVE NEBULA...
Jane Jacobs and family were living in Toronto at least by 1969, brother and his wife became friends with them and our family and Jane's family had Christmas supper together that year. It didn't take her long to be onto another highway project in Toronto, managed to eventually stop the Spadina Expressway from destroying the river valley and area which included a mix of high income and low income neighbourhoods - it still is an important part of Toronto's greenspace and parks.
If you need more material, Memphis has a great story. Interstate 40 was all set to come through the grand city park (Overton Park) and go right next to the zoo. Little old ladies in tennis shoes (as they described themselves) stopped the interstate. It took several years, but the park is still intact and thriving.
It was rather a fight between urban design vs urban planning for the first time as urban design had started to emerge as a seperate field of study, starting from 1950s, with Jacobs being a prominent figure of this divergence. Also, Jacobs' concerns about gentrification are still heavily relevant today as well, but perhaps there might be a needed change of the methodology when approaching this issue, such as a shift from resistance to resilence.
It's funny now hearing Moses' rationale for demolishing those areas. Many of the formerly lower income and low value neighborhoods he mentions are now heavily gentrified yuppie enclaves and still have pretty shoddy car infrastructure. There's an article called The Urban Trend of Our Time by Pete Saunders, highlighting how throughout the US (and also abroad) the wealthy no longer seek the suburbs but instead look for living and career opportunities in major urban centers. Since this is NYC in the video, think of the Lower East Side, Williamsburg, DUMBO, Greenpoint, LIC, Astoria etc. Mostly former working class, low income or industrial neighborhoods... Jacobs was right in the long run, although Moses did give us some good projects too and the city would not be what it is today without him.
She doesn't sound like a nimby to me. She was trying to prevent people from getting displaced with the character of a neighborhood being destroyed due to plans to create a highway. nimbyism to me is attempting to prevent developments from creating additional multi family housing in a specific area. I don't see either being the same and I feel she would have fought for these multi family housing if she was still involved today. The highway project would destroy neighborhoods with no real significant gain unlike multi family housing which can add diversity to a neighborhood and has a real impact on providing options for people to remain housed.
If you have an actually valid problem that is not being addressed, it's not NIMBYism. If your entire complaint amounts to 'but I don't want it near my house! (usually for reasons that are either incorrect or have nothing to do with the actual project)' then, well, it's called NIMBYism for a reason!
@@laurencefraser well I wouldn't say people who practice nimbyism have no legitimate concerns, but I do agree that when I hear the phrase a majority of the time property values are thrown in and to me that's a non issue unless it's commercial real estate. I do not believe residential real estate should be used as Investments or for profit.
@@laurencefraser When NIMBYism fails, there are two plausible responses, both of which ruined NYC. The first is relocation to suburbs, usually far enough away that the undesirable types cannot reach it from the city. The second, and far worse option was insurance fraud a.k.a. arson, "Jewish lightning", torching. Whole buildings and neighborhoods were burned by landlords to claim insurance coverage while pinning the blame on the occupants who usually were minorities, which increased the stereotype imaging of them.
@@raventhorX The curious thing about underwater properties is their propensity to catch on fire for no reason at all. Ask anyone who lived in NYC in the 1960s and 1970s about this.
Thanks for explaining Jane Jacobs fight with Moses so well. Reading her changed my thinking for the better. I’ll consider Nebula but no promises I’d subscribe for long.
As a European, Jane Jacobs will always be one of the giants while Robert Moses... 8 guess he's relevant to americans and that's about it. That said, your discussion one their relevsnce today is such a lovely illustration of the inherent problems of urban planning - our solutions for today will likely cause problems tomorrow
Robert Moses was only relevant in the New York area, which was culturally and politically separate from the United States from the 1920s forwards. The only "Americans" who speak of him are all in NYC and usually college students.
Robert Moses, outside the nitty-gritty of urban planning, was a figure in the decline of the old political machines that preceded him and a cautionary tale in how an unelected official can gain a stranglehold over an entire area of policy, and how destructive that can be. He also happened to be doing his thing in a very transformative period in American history, with the New Deal, the rise of the automobile and suburbanization, and America’s urban decay all occurring in his career. He butted heads and cut deals with major figures of the era, like FDR, who headed state infrastructure projects before succeeding Moses’ patron Al Smith as governor and eventually becoming president, for example. Nelson Rockefeller was the face of the Republican Party’s liberal wing who was simultaneously fighting a losing battle for control of the party against Reagan and the conservatives. Think of him as a case study in America’s largest city in one of its most populous states, dealing with some of the most influential people in the nation.
11:10 Economically speaking, gentrification is just the result of scarcity. Just build more of those desirable places over whatever the alternative would have been.
There's always that one delusional guy who loves drawing Crayola Maps of the most unreasonable plans. Now imagine if that guy was in charge of 5+ government departments, was actually competent, politically savvy, and shady enought to carry out his nightma---I mean, dreams out. That's Robert Moses.
I look forward to the Boston video on the inner belt highway cancellation. The areas of Somerville, Cambridge and Arlington are some of the coolest in the area and would have been absolutely destroyed. They are also extremely sought after and valuable in today’s market. Density that is solid, transit that is some of the best in the country. Somerville used to be called Slummerville until it was gentrified, aka rich typically white folk noticed how nice it was not to drive everywhere and have unique areas to live in with old housing stock that has solid bones and beautiful details.
Jacobs was a leader, and Moses was a boss. No matter how much someone may believe their intentions are good, without popular support you are just a tyrant.
@@jcngokai-76 Yes, three of California’s baseball teams have origins on the East Coast. At least the Giants apparently did a good job of locating and funding their stadium.
What a bizarre concept: Destroy sections of a city; toss out its residents, and for what, to allow non-residents to drive across the city without being inconvenienced.?
What you really need is a middle ground, where city planners aspire to build liveable local neighbourhoods which respect local context, but large-scale infrastructure and housing development can still be built where necessary, in spite of local opposition. It's harsh, but the alternative is that deep structural issues (like bad public transport and housing shortages) are left to fester. I'm personally veeeery sceptical of pushes for 'affordable housing' - at a larger scale, the way to make housing affordable is to build as much of it as possible. Adding overhead and diminishing incentives for house building clearly doesn't do that.
Ironically, Jane Jacobs may be to blame for causing the acute housing shortages in Manhattan and elevated expressways that allow cars to get in and out of dodge during peak hours and disasters is something that ought to be better appreciated.
I will never get over how scummy it was of Moses to run the Dodgers out of Brooklyn. Moses hated transit because it benefited the poor and non-whites. I am convinced that the reason why he tried to force them to move to Flushing Meadows where the Mets are is because he hated how diverse and unified the Dodgers' fanbase was and sought to destroy that by any means necessary. A true premium scumbag indeed. All of those World Series championships that they won in LA should've belonged to Brooklyn full stop. Brooklyn was robbed of their community, rich baseball history, one of sports' greatest cathedrals, a piece of their pre-NYC heritage, and their dynasty all thanks to one racist tyrant and his supreme unelected power greater than even the governor's. The Giants were goners thanks to the Yankees, but the Dodgers could've stayed.
@@mikeyrezaThat'd be a good idea, except her birthday is May 4, which has already been co-opted by the Star Wars fandom. Or maybe that's a good thing, idk...
Jacobs would have a heart attack if she ever saw Japan, we have urban expressways slicing through cities all over the place. Yet admittedly the urban design is still amazing. Kind of the best of both worlds.
At least with Japanese cities minimize cost of acquiring and demolishing properties by building over wide roads, over canals and rivers, or underground. Highways are barely wider than 4-6 lanes both ways and have many toll collections. Bad with Okinawa having the worst traffic and a high car dependency which you can thank the US military occupation. There were once railroads in the island before they got destroyed in the war. Currently, there's one monorail line and buses get stuck in traffic.
Solano County, CA has this debate over a new city right now on different grounds. You have farmers, Travis Air Force Base and Environmentalist on one side but you also have the More Housing,Venture Capitalists and New City crowd on the other side all debating about annexing and forming another city. All of it ended in about the motives of the leadership on the Yes on New City side with concerns on how a new city meets County, State and Federal standards.
South Bronx was already experiencing a higher than normal crime and arson rate before construction began on the Cros Bronx Expressway. The neighborhoods were dying at an alarming rate, and the compensation to the landlords was enough that few put up a fight to give up the land to Moses.
Behind the Bastards did a good episode on Robert Moses. If you want all the details read the pulitzer prize winning book about him "The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York"
Jane Jacobs also spearheaded the fight against the Spadina Expressway in Toronto. The Subway that was planned for the median of that highway was still built.
Cities should be heavily planned for decongestion, clean airflow, public transportation, with mixed residential/commercial housing. Slums should be replaced with efficient housing
I live three blocks from the Cross Bronx. Experiencing trucks trying to turn on my small block to "beat the traffic on the highway," among other things, I have a front row seat to the legacy of Robert Moses. And yes, I've read The Power Broker. As for Jacobs, she argued for more density (I've read her book, too!). But experiencing crowded and stank Chinatown, where I work, shows that Jacobs's arguments are not perfect, either!
@@carkawalakhatulistiwa City Skylines also doesn't have, ahem, social disasters in the disaster menu such as race riots or blighted neighborhoods because then it would not be a game but a simulation.
It is just mentioned in passing but the argument that rising property prices are a good thing will just not die. Everywhere the promise of capitalism is that we get abundance and lower prices, but with real estate greed replaces common sense. By the way, where there is already medium density I don't think nimbyism is bad. It is more important to create new popular urban environments than to push more people in an already popular place.
As a native Long Islander and one-time NYC resident, I've seen firsthand the effect of Robert Moses on the area, especially LI. It is, overall, destructive.
This story would make a great feature film biopic of both of these figures and this episode is a great documentary start. Canadian cities are as much influenced by the USA as the UK and its interesting to see the same fights play out here both in Toronto with the Spadina Expressway revolt and here in my hometown of Edmonton with the Jasper/McKinnon Freeway revolt which would have carved a path through the largest urban park system in North America and got as far as being graded before being hastily turned into a long commuter pathway park which is still eerily freeway flat since they didn't bother to renaturalize the path the freeway would have taken through the richest part of Edmonton a block from our wealthiest citizen, Darryl Katz, the billionaire owner of the Edmonton Oilers hockey team and formerly of Rexall Drugs... Also why his neighbourhood forced an LRT line around and away from it instead of cutting directly through it... Canadian NIMBYISM equally at its best and worst... ;-)
I feel like this video waters down the "urban renewal" strategies - like building highways - of the 20th century that did shape American cities forever. This doesn't come close to bringing up the discriminatory nature in which Robert Moses used "urban renewal". I would ask for a part 2 of this video but maybe ask the Richard Rothstein, author of "color of law", to give commentary here.
One of the great reads of my life was "The Power Broker" by Robert Caro. It's one of those books that changes your brain chemistry. Read it if you haven't. The old saying about "absolute power corrupts absolutely" has never been better demonstrated.
Even if the book doesn’t talk about gentrification because it wasn’t a thing back then, Jane Jacobs heavily indicates that a community should not be displaced when efforts are being made to regenerate its neighborhood, always build on the current strengths instead of destroying and rebuilding.
Moses' ability to push through almost all opposition to get the stuff he wants built is something that would be welcomed nowadays against NIMBYism. Of course, this is ignoring the fact that his push for highways and focus more on catering to suburbanites with cars is part of the reason we have these issues, and he has done significant damage to both New York and other places that learned from him.
12:25 * preserving their [often skewed perception of] property value. As we've rarely seen properties loosing value with transit... NIMBY's think a station and transit infrastructure will tank their property's value, and "pro" NIMBY's think reducing car space and developing bike infrastructure will ruin their business. Even with hard facts in hand they are hard to convince. And when by miracle the project is done, they realize in awe that they were mistaken. Then they adamantly tell everyone they supported the project all along. Like in Barcelona or Paris... It's often the "don't change anything, in case it changes something" conundrum : fear of change and fear of questioning their current way of life and certainties. Very interesting video. The opposition and struggle between the force and the dark side. I have a hard time imagining how would have looked the long building over the buried highway shown on the drawing, but in reality... It would have been a major scar or fracture, a complete barrier across lower Manhattan.
The reason why New York Coty is experiencing big gentrification is because the USA has mostly become car centric, low density suburban. New York is one of the few places where strip malls, parking lots, etc. did not get built in large numbers. While there was demolition in New York, it wasn’t as much compared to other regions of the USA.
BS, the city is surrounded on all sides by strip mall type suburbs and this includes the outer boroughs like Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn. And people from the sticks usually move to Manhattan for one or more of three reasons: 1. Work/School 2. Culture 3. Sexual choice.
@@starventure Go check the stats and talk to ordinary people. Anyone who is able to move to NYC has already done so, as car centric suburbia falls apart.
Go re read The Death and Life of Great American Cities, please take closer attention on the chapters about diversity and the final chapters on the proposals she makes for urban regeneration.
Gentrification is a product of low supply and changes in what's modern and on vogue. Areas that have seen Gentrification are popular because they have good access to services and transport. Those good often city locations had been warehouse districs or old building from the early 20 century or even older those are the areas that saw subway and jobs back then and still today. They are in demand.
Jacobs and Moses: two great Americans who helped NY stay on top. Jacobs was the ultimate NIMBY but her power was checked so it ended up being a net benefit.
No discussion of Jane Jacobs should leave out her work in Toronto as well. There, she stopped the Spadina Expressway, which would've done similar damage to that city.
@@thedapperdolphin1590there’s no stopping it tho. It only happens bc there’s not enough available affordable properties for yuppies and hipsters to live in so they end up taking over working class neighborhoods. More housing across the board could help stop it
@@thedapperdolphin1590Rising house prices in a neighbourhood are fine as long as new houses are constructed at a lower price point elsewhere. A neighbourhood does not need to maintain its characteristics until kingdom come. Inner cities are supposed to get more expensive over time, it is a sign of success.
Robert Moses didn't build the overpasses so low that Black and Puerto Rican NYer's couldn't get to Jones Beach (by bus (implied)). ALL NEW YORK PARKWAYS have low bridges, be they in NYC, Long Island, Rockland, Westchester, Rochester, Niagara Falls, Lake George and the Adirondacks in order to prevent TRUCKS and other commercial traffic (yes that includes buses) from using them. This is because when PARKWAYS were introduced, it was thought it would be for leisurely drives on Sundays and vacations, which is why so many of our parkways look like parks! This legislation is so strongly enforced that it took till the year 2000 when special legislation was passed to allow non-commercial pickup trucks to be driven on parkways in New York. Regional restrictions on travel were so great that at some point in the past (25 to 35 years ago), legislation had to be passed to allow motorcycles to be ridden on the Palisades Interstate Parkway (NY & NJ) and I believe NJ’s Garden State Parkway. As for the video clip you use at 10:29 showing a low overpass/bridge that buses can’t use (implied) isn’t what it implies! That’s because this is A PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY that connects Parking lot 4 which is north of Ocean Parkway to the beach, ensuring no one will ever be run over while walking across Ocean Parkway, independent of the color of their skin! As for you calling Robert Moses a blatant racist and a NIMBY, while giving Jane Jacobs a pass on both, you’re just doing what all Leftists do and that’s looking at your teammates with rose colored glasses!
To be fair, Moses was a racist, along with Levitt and many of the era. Racism was a part of the social fabric of that time, and he should not be judged by modern eyes without proper cognition. It was a simple fact of life that Blacks and PRs were a curse upon NYC; neighborhoods that had been white and safe were turned into filthy ghettos that no one of any sanity wanted to live in. Urbanists like to pin the blame on automobiles and lack of mass transit and irrational fear, etc but will never accept the fact that people like to live in safety without fear, and NYC lost huge amounts of population precisely because of this.
Robert Moses made sure New York City blue collar residents couldn't get to LI beaches by forming the bridges over the Parkways in an arch, so buses couldn't fit underneath them.
I will sign up for Nebula if you promise to do an exclusive Nebula video topless. Those are my terms. I will not negotiate. (enjoyed this video by the way).
And this is why I am anti central planning of cities. I not agree with Moses or Jacobs I am more of a Chuck Mahronist. While we could criticize Moses for days, I want to criticize Jacobs as well. We can learn alot from Jane Jacobs she did get alot right, but missed alot. She really never addressed how to build new cities, she would say things like how "every neighborhood needs old buildings" is really not compatible with much of newer societies. Another thing that gets me about Jacobs is here complete lack of understanding about geography. About how the only reason NYC is such a big city, and Scranton where she grew up isn't is entirely due to geography and trade. Nothing more nothing less.
@@SNeaker328 I get that Jane Jacobs and others like James Howard Kuntsler, and Andres Duany have had huge influences on Chuck Mahron and strong towns. I just find that later urbanists have a better understanding of why cities are where they are, and what is sustainable and what isn't. They usually take geography and finance into account more so than Jacobs did. One thing all 4 of these people have in common is that they are very skeptical of so called "Urban Planning" and prefer a city made by many hands which is a very good idea. I could compare and contrast all day, but my point stands that Jane Jacobs although she had some good Ideas, she had a poor understanding of fields outside of Neighborhood design, such as geography, finance, and human social structures.
Central and state planning has always resulted in crumbling failures as we seen when it comes to bureaucracies of government to the collectivization and politization of all life. Everything the state touches turns to garbage.
There is more to life than efficiency, particularly when one is only concerned about moving traffic at the expense of many of other important things in both city and country life. Moses did construct some good projects but I think his legacy is mostly shameful. This video doesn't mention that he refused to alter his plans in any way to accommodate other concerns and therefore, more people got displaced than should have been in his "slum clearance" plans. I live in a different city than NYC but have resided in two neighborhoods that were threatened with demolition via highway construction. Thank God those plans were overruled and that the Moses style approach has since been discredited.
Instead of focusing on that how about we make sure at least 90% of Indians have a roof above their head first😊 The key problem in India is probably congestion. I would say actually sprawling a little bit(not so much that it becomes car dependent like North America) Make the cities less dense is what I’m sayin
One of the things we today call "third places" was one of the things Jane Jacobs really advocated for. The neighborhood places where people can gather and hang out. The places so many of our urban environments lack. The Death and Life of Great American Cities is a great read. It is required reading for anyone who has urbanist "tendencies"
It's a good idea, but it needs a less sanitary name.
I read Jane jacobs book. It's a nice read for that time. As a person, though, she was a leftist. She was all about saving Pennsylvania Station in 1963 to no avail. Then formed several coalition to fight lower Manhattan proposed expressways. When Vietnam started, her son was of draft age, so she fled to Toronto Canada. When she got there, she immediately became instrumental into fighting proposed highways in Toronto.
@@Saint-Christopher Nothing wrong with being a leftist 😋
@@scpatl4now What were the disastrous pedestrian malls built in the 1960s and drive up shopping malls in the 1970s? People basically just want to shop. They can hang out with their friends and family. It's a stupid idea.
@@Saint-Christopher You are wrong, she was an economic conservative, verging on libertarian. It goes along with her revulsion for government planning. Meanwhile, using the term 'leftist' as a slander betrays your total ignorance of political economics. It's as meaningless a catch-all as 'woke' or 'feminist', oversimplified misleading language for distracting juvenile minds.
Jane Jacobs is pretty famous. I remember reading her book "Dark Age Ahead" published in 2004 in which she predicted that poor city planning choices would doom America if things kept going in the direction they were headed. It is worth checking out and addresses more modern problems.
She wasn't wrong. The way American cities are laid out is making it impossible to phase out single-occupancy vehicles. As a result we continue to hot box ourselves into a climate catastrophe.
@@thecardsaysmoops3Reading strong towns you can really get a feel for that. So often they'll criticize a city's decision and planners will come out and defend their position, but it's usually just a defense of the status quo.
My favorite was reading about a Buffalo wild wings that was built sort of in the middle of nowhere, with a huge parking lot, and being criticized for inducing drunk driving. Then a city planner came out and said, "but there's a hotel next door!" As if people are really planning a night out of drinking to go stay at a hotel right next to the bar.
As someone who doesn't live in the US, I'd only heard a bit about Moses here and there. I was expecting this story to be just another time he pushed through his vision against local opposition - I literally said to my screen "of course Moses won, he always won" in the intro. Nice to know it's not quite that black and white, and that he fell out of political popularity by the 60s.
Most Americans have never heard of the guy. I doubt that has any affect on it.
Let me suggest you read the biography “The Builder,” by Robert Caro, 1975. A massive tome.
Eisenhower was also against city highway construction. “ It’ll take twice as long, cost twice of much and then they’ll want us build parking. “ The idea of the his Highway system was to take cars to the city’s edge, to be transportation between cities. The congressional members of NewYork and California joined together to force what we have now.
heard somewhere that Eisenhower was devastated to learn that the politicos were using his highway money to massacre downtowns rather than just build autobahns
Eisenhower wanted German inspired autobahns in the USA for military logistics. He never intended the Interstate Freeway to be used by hundreds of millions of civilian cars.
But at the end of the day, Eisenhower never realized that Hitler built the autobahn for commercial trucking and not for the Wehrmacht.
As it approaches metropolitan Boston, highway 2 goes from an expressway down to essentially a city street, with a massive parking garage over a subway station. This sounds like the vision that you're describing. (It does seem to work. But I've probably triggered anti park and ride sentiment among some. It's an argument to be had, but worth observing it as an example of a strategy, and its results.)
@@bearcubdaycareOne problem that I have with park and ride is that oftentimes, the highway just continues past the park and ride station. So what's the point? If the highway ended at the park and ride, that would be much more ideal, as it would basically force commuters to use the transit system or be stuck on local roads.
@@elemenopi55From what I’ve seen from most of the big urbanist channels, the general consensus seems to be that Park and Rides are bad no matter what and that all transit should be within walking of biking distance. I’ve yet to see a “Park and Rides are good, actually” video on TH-cam.
Personally, I have no issue with them as long as they’re on the edge of cities and they’re full. Full Park and Rides are a good sign that suburban commuters are using transit, which can increase it’s profitability and provide better transit for anyone without a car. If they’re close to the middle of cities, then I would have an issue with them.
I shudder to think of how much less vibrant and pedestrain-friendly New York City would be if it was decimated by highways cutting through its center like so many other U.S cities. I recently graduated from NYU and it was wonderful experiencing all the neighborhoods in the area: Soho, Greenwich, Chinatown, Little Italy, etc. Yes, many of these neighborhoods are experiencing rampant gentrification, but at least they're still here and still given a chance to thrive and improve, a chance that has been denied to so many neighborhoods in other cities.
I don't think you meant to imply it but pedestrian-friendly is the last thing I think of when describing New York City. Perhaps poorly catering to pedestrians to horribly treating pedestrians if Robert Moses entirely had his way is how I would describe it.
What a surprise, an out-of-towner living in hip neighborhoods touting how good his neighborhood is while wishing people in Jersey and the other boroughs don’t come to his neighborhood
I don’t think it would have made much of a difference currently if, and only if, it was going to be a crosstown tunnel much like what happened with the George Washington bridge to the Bronx except completely underground, but it would have definitely crushed the people currently living there during it’s construction.
Glad it wasn’t built. But if it was, modern day us probably wouldn’t notice a difference in what currently goes on there.
@@Urbanhandymanway more pedestrian friendly than most cities and definitely the car centric suburbs.
@@justSTUMBLEDupon It would have made huge differences. Lower Manhattan business needs truck to bring in supplies as well and currently they either suffer through Holland Tunnel or cross from the north and traverse down to the South
You said that Moses delivered projects "under budget". If you read "The Power Broker" you'll learn that this was often not the case--far from it. He had a strategy of obtaining what appeared to be a reasonable budget approval for many of his projects such as the Henry Hudson Parkway, only to blow through the budgets after being only about half way complete, with a construction site in place of what had formerly been there. His answer was basically: how can we stop here now? He would manage to get more money in order to complete each project.
Thanks for pointing this out.
That's typical for all infra constructions today in the US and Europe: underestimating budget to get approved, ask for more budget and time afterwards, (and even being unable to get things done). Getting over budget is typical for infra programs across the world, but poor program management on top of constantly shifting election/administrative interests has made any progress on major infrastructure blocked.
@@brmnyc Moses was a genius at that strategy and the NY Times helped him get the word out. California High Speed Rail was supposed to connect LA and San Francisco 4 years ago, but they have barely started and need another 100 billion to finish it...supposedly. Same thing, except Moses actually got useful things built.
After all that, Jane Jacobs moved to Toronto because she was opposed to the Vietnam War. There she helped to stop the construction of the Spadina Expressway which would have cut through her (and my) neighbourhood. Jane Jacobs did a lot of good.
A critical difference between Jane Jacobs and NIMYism is that Jane Jacobs stood with working class people to fight against the encroachment of wealthy suburbanites that were bleeding out cities. NIMBYism, by contrast, is mostly a phenomenon that is wealthier residents. Also, Jane Jacobs fought against highways that were of little benefit to the working class populations that had to live near them. Buses and trains, by contrast, are of great use to the vast majority of people. Highways and all of the parking moats are an inefficient use of land. Mass transit projects that NIMBYism often opposes is mostly an efficient use of space
But Lower Manhattan has almost nothing but wealthy people now! Jacobs saved it for them.
@@johnmcmahon5225 that’s as of now. Back then, it didn’t as far as I know. It’s a number of communities that become unlivable. Same with parts of LA. Cities like Dallas and others in Texas may be on a similar trajectory. I live in Buffalo. We have had a similar trajectory in certain neighborhoods. A lot has changed in six decades. The prospect of downtowns being unaffordable was not a concern in most of the US or Canada in the 1960’s.
@@williamevans9709 The community hardly became unlivable! Up until the 1980s it was a dangerous, dirty part of town, and then the turnaround came and now it's one of the nicest places you could want to live. Low density, safe, with every amenity, but that costs money.
It's called unintended consequences.
@@johnmcmahon5225 low density? That’s cute 😉 Manhattan is the most densely populated borough in NYC.
Also, “unlivable” is an ill-defined term. Unaffordable? Yes. As I said, lots of places that had a greater mixture of incomes now are out of budget for lots of people.
Please consider doing a video on slums and how you think they should be treated
Why does something need to be done about low income neighborhoods
Rich people have 5 home. 1 they live, 4 for rented. of course this won't cause any problems. such as the lack of cheap housing😂
Bingo
@@cameronreid8383because crime affects everybody in the surroundings, not only residents in those neighborhoods. I'd invite you to come over to Brazil, or any developing country, to have a concrete feel of the problem beyond liberal arts colleges' classrooms.
Investment in maintenance for social housing, including replacement where needed; cash transfers to the poor.
I realize that your video is time-constrained, but a key element of the death of the LOMEX project was Moses' big-picture plan to build THREE elevated expressways across Manhattan, at least one of which would have placed noisy, fume-spewing traffic jams right outside the windows of some of the city's most valuable commercial office buildings. This led to many powerful real estate barons turning against Bob the Builder, their former ally. It wasn't just a "grass roots" freeway revolt. He also pissed off the REAL powers that make New York City the center of the known universe.
As Caro explains, the final nail in shadow emperor Moses' coffin wasn't his behind-the-scenes monkey business, his destruction of poor but functional neighborhoods, his displacement of at least 300,000 (possibly half a million) citizens, his deliberate financial sabotage of the NYC subway system, the financial failures of the 1939 and 1964 world's fairs, his ultimate bankrupting of the entire city, or any of his other famously notorious actions. It was the simple act of removing a beloved tree from Central Park and pissing off a bunch of moms.
Damn, he took the time out to remove a tree? What a guy smh
And he tried to bankrupt NYCT? And bankrupted NYC?
Very well put. He also lost support when he proposed building the Battery-Brooklyn Bridge. Apparently the very long viaduct along Battery Park leading up to the bridge was going to spoil the harbor views from many Wall Street bankers' offices. He may have had an easy time displacing poor people but upsetting the wealthy, now that was a major mistake!
@@brmnyc He also wanted to demolish historic Castle Clinton. There was quite a fight between Moses and the Roosevelt administration over the bridge vs tunnel issue. Moses loved bridges because they were highly visible monuments to HIM. He hated tunnels because nobody could see them unless they were in them. Luckily, Roosevelt hated Moses so he made the Navy Department claim that a bridge would impair their access to port facilities. Obvious BS, but I like it!
@@justSTUMBLEDupon It's been a while since I read the book but, IIRC, he arranged some cooking of the books to transfer certain debt limits/obligations to the NYC Subway in order to allow his bridge & tunnel authority to issue more debt instruments to build a toll bridge (maybe the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge or the Throgs Neck?). He did THAT one with malice aforethought. He did NOT intend to bankrupt the city as a whole, but a number of people who know things posit that the insane weight of all the debt obligations associated with his road, parks, housing, and other projects (two failed World's Fairs, attracting the U.N. headquarters, etc) put the city's collective ass in a very deep crack. The city eventually solved part of its problem by doing something Moses absolutely despised -- combining the transit authority with his bridge & tunnel authority to create the MTA.
@@justSTUMBLEDupon Oh, about that tree. Moses was City Parks Commissioner for a long time and deserves credit for dramatically increasing the number of neighborhood parks and swimming pools throughout the city. He turned some truly nasty trash and coal ash dumps into magnificent parks. He's also the reason there are sportsball fields in Central Park. He evicted the sheep from Sheep Meadow in 1934 and the building that had housed them became the world-famous Tavern on the Green. In 1956, he wanted to convert a pleasantly wooded part of the park into a parking lot for the restaurant. One night, while the park was closed, he had demolition work commence and a tree was knocked down, but further demolition was stopped by threat of legal action.
Interesting how we tell the story "she was arrested but she eventually got off with just a fine", as if the idea of her being punished was reasonable at all. She was wrongfully punished for trying to help her community and I'd love to see a change in how we tell that story to better reflect that.
I mean, if they made that story into a movie, I'd watch it.
Exactly
It's pretty sad how often that tactic is abused by city officials. There should be some recourse for individuals who are wrongly arrested like that, but I'm sure that can also backfire.
I'd love to see this continued with Jane Jacobs work here in Toronto to cancel the Spadina Expressway (Presently known as The Allen Road) which had already started construction when it was killed
When Robert Moses built the parkways to access Long Island's parks / beaches, he had low stone bridges built over them, to ensure that buses could not use them only private cars. He did not want to give access to the poor masses, only the better off.
This is the truth. No many New Yorkers realize this.
Wow wtf that pisses off truckers too delivering goods
Please consider doing more city planning history videos like one
The Power Broker such a great book - so much material for more videos in Caro’s masterpiece.
Keep up the good work with the history of urban development! There is certainly a lot of content potential with this type of content and I'm hoping you continue making these types of videos!
Just putting out there, Nebula is an amazing platform and a member since the begining.... I love it... The curiosity stream combined was part of it for a long while, but their service was disapointing and never really used it... I love documnetries and stuff and always thought curiosity stream would be great, but the content is very sub par.
Nebula, now with a whole slew of originals that you can ONLY see there, and extended/longer videos that you see on youtube, you see the extended ones there.... My fav people to watch and learn from, I love learning this way!!!!! The content is TOP NOTCH!!!! I LOVE NEBULA...
I had NO IDEA how much nuance there was in this. Amazing video!
Jane Jacobs and family were living in Toronto at least by 1969, brother and his wife became friends with them and our family and Jane's family had Christmas supper together that year. It didn't take her long to be onto another highway project in Toronto, managed to eventually stop the Spadina Expressway from destroying the river valley and area which included a mix of high income and low income neighbourhoods - it still is an important part of Toronto's greenspace and parks.
If you need more material, Memphis has a great story. Interstate 40 was all set to come through the grand city park (Overton Park) and go right next to the zoo. Little old ladies in tennis shoes (as they described themselves) stopped the interstate. It took several years, but the park is still intact and thriving.
The same thing happened to I-70 in Baltimore.
It was rather a fight between urban design vs urban planning for the first time as urban design had started to emerge as a seperate field of study, starting from 1950s, with Jacobs being a prominent figure of this divergence. Also, Jacobs' concerns about gentrification are still heavily relevant today as well, but perhaps there might be a needed change of the methodology when approaching this issue, such as a shift from resistance to resilence.
It's funny now hearing Moses' rationale for demolishing those areas. Many of the formerly lower income and low value neighborhoods he mentions are now heavily gentrified yuppie enclaves and still have pretty shoddy car infrastructure. There's an article called The Urban Trend of Our Time by Pete Saunders, highlighting how throughout the US (and also abroad) the wealthy no longer seek the suburbs but instead look for living and career opportunities in major urban centers.
Since this is NYC in the video, think of the Lower East Side, Williamsburg, DUMBO, Greenpoint, LIC, Astoria etc. Mostly former working class, low income or industrial neighborhoods... Jacobs was right in the long run, although Moses did give us some good projects too and the city would not be what it is today without him.
She doesn't sound like a nimby to me. She was trying to prevent people from getting displaced with the character of a neighborhood being destroyed due to plans to create a highway. nimbyism to me is attempting to prevent developments from creating additional multi family housing in a specific area. I don't see either being the same and I feel she would have fought for these multi family housing if she was still involved today. The highway project would destroy neighborhoods with no real significant gain unlike multi family housing which can add diversity to a neighborhood and has a real impact on providing options for people to remain housed.
If you have an actually valid problem that is not being addressed, it's not NIMBYism. If your entire complaint amounts to 'but I don't want it near my house! (usually for reasons that are either incorrect or have nothing to do with the actual project)' then, well, it's called NIMBYism for a reason!
@@laurencefraser well I wouldn't say people who practice nimbyism have no legitimate concerns, but I do agree that when I hear the phrase a majority of the time property values are thrown in and to me that's a non issue unless it's commercial real estate. I do not believe residential real estate should be used as Investments or for profit.
@@laurencefraser imagine equating not wanting an unnecessary, neighborhood-destroying highway, with NIMBYism. Lol you’re adorable 😂
@@laurencefraser When NIMBYism fails, there are two plausible responses, both of which ruined NYC. The first is relocation to suburbs, usually far enough away that the undesirable types cannot reach it from the city. The second, and far worse option was insurance fraud a.k.a. arson, "Jewish lightning", torching. Whole buildings and neighborhoods were burned by landlords to claim insurance coverage while pinning the blame on the occupants who usually were minorities, which increased the stereotype imaging of them.
@@raventhorX The curious thing about underwater properties is their propensity to catch on fire for no reason at all. Ask anyone who lived in NYC in the 1960s and 1970s about this.
Thanks for explaining Jane Jacobs fight with Moses so well. Reading her changed my thinking for the better. I’ll consider Nebula but no promises I’d subscribe for long.
5:48 Jane jacobs was born in 1960??? She did well in defeating Robert Moses before she was born.
As a European, Jane Jacobs will always be one of the giants while Robert Moses... 8 guess he's relevant to americans and that's about it.
That said, your discussion one their relevsnce today is such a lovely illustration of the inherent problems of urban planning - our solutions for today will likely cause problems tomorrow
Robert Moses was only relevant in the New York area, which was culturally and politically separate from the United States from the 1920s forwards. The only "Americans" who speak of him are all in NYC and usually college students.
Robert Moses, outside the nitty-gritty of urban planning, was a figure in the decline of the old political machines that preceded him and a cautionary tale in how an unelected official can gain a stranglehold over an entire area of policy, and how destructive that can be. He also happened to be doing his thing in a very transformative period in American history, with the New Deal, the rise of the automobile and suburbanization, and America’s urban decay all occurring in his career. He butted heads and cut deals with major figures of the era, like FDR, who headed state infrastructure projects before succeeding Moses’ patron Al Smith as governor and eventually becoming president, for example. Nelson Rockefeller was the face of the Republican Party’s liberal wing who was simultaneously fighting a losing battle for control of the party against Reagan and the conservatives. Think of him as a case study in America’s largest city in one of its most populous states, dealing with some of the most influential people in the nation.
11:10 Economically speaking, gentrification is just the result of scarcity. Just build more of those desirable places over whatever the alternative would have been.
It's such a good things those freeways never came through lower Manhattan. I can't imagine what Little Italy would be like if they did.
There's always that one delusional guy who loves drawing Crayola Maps of the most unreasonable plans. Now imagine if that guy was in charge of 5+ government departments, was actually competent, politically savvy, and shady enought to carry out his nightma---I mean, dreams out.
That's Robert Moses.
I look forward to the Boston video on the inner belt highway cancellation. The areas of Somerville, Cambridge and Arlington are some of the coolest in the area and would have been absolutely destroyed. They are also extremely sought after and valuable in today’s market. Density that is solid, transit that is some of the best in the country. Somerville used to be called Slummerville until it was gentrified, aka rich typically white folk noticed how nice it was not to drive everywhere and have unique areas to live in with old housing stock that has solid bones and beautiful details.
Moses shaped New York In his own image and we are still living with its effects.
Moses built the raised railway line that the Highline is on.
Excellent analysis - I was pleasantly surprised by the nuance presented on their respective legacies, after the verdict of the fight was declared.
amazing video. Thanks for the effort
wow ! great story. I was unaware of this story . well done, thanks.
Jacobs was a leader, and Moses was a boss. No matter how much someone may believe their intentions are good, without popular support you are just a tyrant.
Robert Moses is also responsible for the Dodgers and the Giants, especially the former, leaving for the west coast.
@@jcngokai-76 Yes, three of California’s baseball teams have origins on the East Coast. At least the Giants apparently did a good job of locating and funding their stadium.
Moses had the NY Times in his pocket until the 1960s.
Impressive job on making such a balanced take
Thanks for this valuable information and sharing this piece of history. 🙂
"...systematically destroy the works of Robert Moses."
-Justin Roczniak
That would include the UN building, FYI.
*could not remember the full quote, FYI.*
That would also include high-rise housing, public swimming pools, and 658 playgrounds.
Loved this video thank you for posting!
What a bizarre concept: Destroy sections of a city; toss out its residents, and for what, to allow non-residents to drive across the city without being inconvenienced.?
Exactly. Cars are like a cancer. Just bulldoze every business, home, school, daycare, and college. I mean they all hold up traffic!
Those highways also carry the countless trucks that deliver the means to live in NYC. Also buses.
6:47
I really thought that expressway was Sutton go over Canal street to the river tube
Great high-quality video!
Great video. I like that you did it balanced rather than just slam Moses.
As a Cal Poly alum who now lives in Boston, I can't wait to see your next vid.
It's funny you post this today, my copy of the power broker just came in the mail not even an hour ago
What you really need is a middle ground, where city planners aspire to build liveable local neighbourhoods which respect local context, but large-scale infrastructure and housing development can still be built where necessary, in spite of local opposition. It's harsh, but the alternative is that deep structural issues (like bad public transport and housing shortages) are left to fester.
I'm personally veeeery sceptical of pushes for 'affordable housing' - at a larger scale, the way to make housing affordable is to build as much of it as possible. Adding overhead and diminishing incentives for house building clearly doesn't do that.
Ironically, Jane Jacobs may be to blame for causing the acute housing shortages in Manhattan and elevated expressways that allow cars to get in and out of dodge during peak hours and disasters is something that ought to be better appreciated.
I will never get over how scummy it was of Moses to run the Dodgers out of Brooklyn. Moses hated transit because it benefited the poor and non-whites. I am convinced that the reason why he tried to force them to move to Flushing Meadows where the Mets are is because he hated how diverse and unified the Dodgers' fanbase was and sought to destroy that by any means necessary. A true premium scumbag indeed. All of those World Series championships that they won in LA should've belonged to Brooklyn full stop. Brooklyn was robbed of their community, rich baseball history, one of sports' greatest cathedrals, a piece of their pre-NYC heritage, and their dynasty all thanks to one racist tyrant and his supreme unelected power greater than even the governor's. The Giants were goners thanks to the Yankees, but the Dodgers could've stayed.
San Juan hill is also the location of west side story
jane is truly one of the greatest americans who ever lived, i wish there was a national day to commemorate her
we can just make one up, maybe it can be her birthday and we all eat cake
@@mikeyrezaThat'd be a good idea, except her birthday is May 4, which has already been co-opted by the Star Wars fandom. Or maybe that's a good thing, idk...
@@mark99k star wars is a dead franchise, we can take over
@@mikeyreza I'd be on board with that.
@@mark99k corporate made holiday or urban design queen, i know what i want
Jacobs would have a heart attack if she ever saw Japan, we have urban expressways slicing through cities all over the place. Yet admittedly the urban design is still amazing. Kind of the best of both worlds.
The key is Japan has robust public transit, dense walkable cities, mixed use zoning, and very limited street parking
At least with Japanese cities minimize cost of acquiring and demolishing properties by building over wide roads, over canals and rivers, or underground. Highways are barely wider than 4-6 lanes both ways and have many toll collections.
Bad with Okinawa having the worst traffic and a high car dependency which you can thank the US military occupation. There were once railroads in the island before they got destroyed in the war. Currently, there's one monorail line and buses get stuck in traffic.
Bob Moses was used as a villain in an actual play, a literal demon.
I would love to see a video on how best to develop areas while avoiding gentrification
Solano County, CA has this debate over a new city right now on different grounds. You have farmers, Travis Air Force Base and Environmentalist on one side but you also have the More Housing,Venture Capitalists and New City crowd on the other side all debating about annexing and forming another city. All of it ended in about the motives of the leadership on the Yes on New City side with concerns on how a new city meets County, State and Federal standards.
Manhattan won against Robert Moses as it was wealthy and famous. South Bronx was poor so it never even got a chance to fight.
Someone’s read the Power Broker
South Bronx was already experiencing a higher than normal crime and arson rate before construction began on the Cros Bronx Expressway. The neighborhoods were dying at an alarming rate, and the compensation to the landlords was enough that few put up a fight to give up the land to Moses.
@@starventure the cross bronx expressway was completed in 1963. The arson issues arose in the 1970s.
@@Evemeister12 Arson started in the late 1950s. It went nuts in the 70s, but it existed well beforehand.
@@starventurea few isolated incidents in the 1950s doesn't mark the beginning of the problem. It was the early 1970s when it really began.
Thank you for this video!!!
Now I understand the movie 🎥
Motherless Brooklyn for the very first time since seeing that movie in 2019
Woo can’t wait for that next video about my hometown
Behind the Bastards did a good episode on Robert Moses. If you want all the details read the pulitzer prize winning book about him "The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York"
I love your videos, but is there anyway you can do "Country Beautiful" and explain the unincorporated towns for us.
Unincorporated towns refers to it lakes it own muncipal government some incorporated towns are smaller than many Unincorporated towns
Good video!
Jane Jacobs also spearheaded the fight against the Spadina Expressway in Toronto. The Subway that was planned for the median of that highway was still built.
Great video as usual! :]
I can't wait until you do the video of the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line and all the extra elevated lines that had no business tairing it down.
great video!
Cities should be heavily planned for decongestion, clean airflow, public transportation, with mixed residential/commercial housing. Slums should be replaced with efficient housing
Great video.
I live three blocks from the Cross Bronx. Experiencing trucks trying to turn on my small block to "beat the traffic on the highway," among other things, I have a front row seat to the legacy of Robert Moses. And yes, I've read The Power Broker. As for Jacobs, she argued for more density (I've read her book, too!). But experiencing crowded and stank Chinatown, where I work, shows that Jacobs's arguments are not perfect, either!
Jacobs vs Moses, i would love to see a movie about these two.
I wonder what robert moses's cities in cities skylines would look like if he lived today and played it.
You know why City Skyline doesn't include a parking lot in the game. because it looks depressing with half the city being a parking lot
@@carkawalakhatulistiwa City Skylines also doesn't have, ahem, social disasters in the disaster menu such as race riots or blighted neighborhoods because then it would not be a game but a simulation.
Your opinion on Park and Ride train stations please!
It is just mentioned in passing but the argument that rising property prices are a good thing will just not die. Everywhere the promise of capitalism is that we get abundance and lower prices, but with real estate greed replaces common sense. By the way, where there is already medium density I don't think nimbyism is bad. It is more important to create new popular urban environments than to push more people in an already popular place.
As a native Long Islander and one-time NYC resident, I've seen firsthand the effect of Robert Moses on the area, especially LI. It is, overall, destructive.
For someone who built his career on anti-corruption, Moses sure was into behind-closed-doors planning.
This story would make a great feature film biopic of both of these figures and this episode is a great documentary start. Canadian cities are as much influenced by the USA as the UK and its interesting to see the same fights play out here both in Toronto with the Spadina Expressway revolt and here in my hometown of Edmonton with the Jasper/McKinnon Freeway revolt which would have carved a path through the largest urban park system in North America and got as far as being graded before being hastily turned into a long commuter pathway park which is still eerily freeway flat since they didn't bother to renaturalize the path the freeway would have taken through the richest part of Edmonton a block from our wealthiest citizen, Darryl Katz, the billionaire owner of the Edmonton Oilers hockey team and formerly of Rexall Drugs... Also why his neighbourhood forced an LRT line around and away from it instead of cutting directly through it... Canadian NIMBYISM equally at its best and worst... ;-)
I feel like this video waters down the "urban renewal" strategies - like building highways - of the 20th century that did shape American cities forever. This doesn't come close to bringing up the discriminatory nature in which Robert Moses used "urban renewal". I would ask for a part 2 of this video but maybe ask the Richard Rothstein, author of "color of law", to give commentary here.
Great book tips :)
One of the great reads of my life was "The Power Broker" by Robert Caro. It's one of those books that changes your brain chemistry. Read it if you haven't. The old saying about "absolute power corrupts absolutely" has never been better demonstrated.
🌟 This needs a Ford v Ferrari type movie
Even if the book doesn’t talk about gentrification because it wasn’t a thing back then, Jane Jacobs heavily indicates that a community should not be displaced when efforts are being made to regenerate its neighborhood, always build on the current strengths instead of destroying and rebuilding.
Moses' ability to push through almost all opposition to get the stuff he wants built is something that would be welcomed nowadays against NIMBYism.
Of course, this is ignoring the fact that his push for highways and focus more on catering to suburbanites with cars is part of the reason we have these issues, and he has done significant damage to both New York and other places that learned from him.
12:25 * preserving their [often skewed perception of] property value.
As we've rarely seen properties loosing value with transit...
NIMBY's think a station and transit infrastructure will tank their property's value, and "pro" NIMBY's think reducing car space and developing bike infrastructure will ruin their business.
Even with hard facts in hand they are hard to convince.
And when by miracle the project is done, they realize in awe that they were mistaken.
Then they adamantly tell everyone they supported the project all along.
Like in Barcelona or Paris...
It's often the "don't change anything, in case it changes something" conundrum : fear of change and fear of questioning their current way of life and certainties.
Very interesting video. The opposition and struggle between the force and the dark side.
I have a hard time imagining how would have looked the long building over the buried highway shown on the drawing, but in reality...
It would have been a major scar or fracture, a complete barrier across lower Manhattan.
The reason why New York Coty is experiencing big gentrification is because the USA has mostly become car centric, low density suburban. New York is one of the few places where strip malls, parking lots, etc. did not get built in large numbers.
While there was demolition in New York, it wasn’t as much compared to other regions of the USA.
BS, the city is surrounded on all sides by strip mall type suburbs and this includes the outer boroughs like Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn. And people from the sticks usually move to Manhattan for one or more of three reasons: 1. Work/School 2. Culture 3. Sexual choice.
@@starventure Go check the stats and talk to ordinary people. Anyone who is able to move to NYC has already done so, as car centric suburbia falls apart.
Go re read The Death and Life of Great American Cities, please take closer attention on the chapters about diversity and the final chapters on the proposals she makes for urban regeneration.
Robert moses is the reason why Long Island is so car dependent...
Gentrification is a product of low supply and changes in what's modern and on vogue.
Areas that have seen Gentrification are popular because they have good access to services and transport. Those good often city locations had been warehouse districs or old building from the early 20 century or even older those are the areas that saw subway and jobs back then and still today.
They are in demand.
The change we need today is to what we will need in 100 years. JMHO.
Jacobs and Moses: two great Americans who helped NY stay on top. Jacobs was the ultimate NIMBY but her power was checked so it ended up being a net benefit.
No discussion of Jane Jacobs should leave out her work in Toronto as well. There, she stopped the Spadina Expressway, which would've done similar damage to that city.
"Gentrification" is not a real problem. A lack of affordable housing is. The two should not be confused.
That’s just semantics, especially when gentrification is what contributes to rising housing prices in a neighborhood.
@@thedapperdolphin1590there’s no stopping it tho. It only happens bc there’s not enough available affordable properties for yuppies and hipsters to live in so they end up taking over working class neighborhoods. More housing across the board could help stop it
@@thedapperdolphin1590Rising house prices in a neighbourhood are fine as long as new houses are constructed at a lower price point elsewhere. A neighbourhood does not need to maintain its characteristics until kingdom come. Inner cities are supposed to get more expensive over time, it is a sign of success.
Robert Moses didn't build the overpasses so low that Black and Puerto Rican NYer's couldn't get to Jones Beach (by bus (implied)).
ALL NEW YORK PARKWAYS have low bridges, be they in NYC, Long Island, Rockland, Westchester, Rochester, Niagara Falls, Lake George and the Adirondacks in order to prevent TRUCKS and other commercial traffic (yes that includes buses) from using them. This is because when PARKWAYS were introduced, it was thought it would be for leisurely drives on Sundays and vacations, which is why so many of our parkways look like parks! This legislation is so strongly enforced that it took till the year 2000 when special legislation was passed to allow non-commercial pickup trucks to be driven on parkways in New York. Regional restrictions on travel were so great that at some point in the past (25 to 35 years ago), legislation had to be passed to allow motorcycles to be ridden on the Palisades Interstate Parkway (NY & NJ) and I believe NJ’s Garden State Parkway.
As for the video clip you use at 10:29 showing a low overpass/bridge that buses can’t use (implied) isn’t what it implies! That’s because this is A PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY that connects Parking lot 4 which is north of Ocean Parkway to the beach, ensuring no one will ever be run over while walking across Ocean Parkway, independent of the color of their skin!
As for you calling Robert Moses a blatant racist and a NIMBY, while giving Jane Jacobs a pass on both, you’re just doing what all Leftists do and that’s looking at your teammates with rose colored glasses!
To be fair, Moses was a racist, along with Levitt and many of the era. Racism was a part of the social fabric of that time, and he should not be judged by modern eyes without proper cognition. It was a simple fact of life that Blacks and PRs were a curse upon NYC; neighborhoods that had been white and safe were turned into filthy ghettos that no one of any sanity wanted to live in. Urbanists like to pin the blame on automobiles and lack of mass transit and irrational fear, etc but will never accept the fact that people like to live in safety without fear, and NYC lost huge amounts of population precisely because of this.
@@starventure Moses was not a racist, but you are.
@@McsMark1 Are you white?
I can only imagine an alternate universe where Jane Jacobs pretty much won the urban planning War
This story would make a really good movie
Robert Moses was the Baron Haussmann of the 20th century.
Robert Moses made sure New York City blue collar residents couldn't get to LI beaches by forming the bridges over the Parkways in an arch, so buses couldn't fit underneath them.
I will sign up for Nebula if you promise to do an exclusive Nebula video topless. Those are my terms. I will not negotiate. (enjoyed this video by the way).
Seems like forever since I watched it on Nebula
The cities that fought back against highways are much healthier today. The cities that embraced the highway plans fully have never really recovered.
this should be made into a big budget hollywood movie
And this is why I am anti central planning of cities. I not agree with Moses or Jacobs I am more of a Chuck Mahronist. While we could criticize Moses for days, I want to criticize Jacobs as well. We can learn alot from Jane Jacobs she did get alot right, but missed alot. She really never addressed how to build new cities, she would say things like how "every neighborhood needs old buildings" is really not compatible with much of newer societies. Another thing that gets me about Jacobs is here complete lack of understanding about geography. About how the only reason NYC is such a big city, and Scranton where she grew up isn't is entirely due to geography and trade. Nothing more nothing less.
Strong Towns has a "Jane Jacobs" week. Her "bottom up" approach is exactly what they're modeled on, but adapted to modern times and issues.
@@SNeaker328 I get that Jane Jacobs and others like James Howard Kuntsler, and Andres Duany have had huge influences on Chuck Mahron and strong towns. I just find that later urbanists have a better understanding of why cities are where they are, and what is sustainable and what isn't. They usually take geography and finance into account more so than Jacobs did. One thing all 4 of these people have in common is that they are very skeptical of so called "Urban Planning" and prefer a city made by many hands which is a very good idea. I could compare and contrast all day, but my point stands that Jane Jacobs although she had some good Ideas, she had a poor understanding of fields outside of Neighborhood design, such as geography, finance, and human social structures.
Central and state planning has always resulted in crumbling failures as we seen when it comes to bureaucracies of government to the collectivization and politization of all life. Everything the state touches turns to garbage.
There is more to life than efficiency, particularly when one is only concerned about moving traffic at the expense of many of other important things in both city and country life. Moses did construct some good projects but I think his legacy is mostly shameful. This video doesn't mention that he refused to alter his plans in any way to accommodate other concerns and therefore, more people got displaced than should have been in his "slum clearance" plans.
I live in a different city than NYC but have resided in two neighborhoods that were threatened with demolition via highway construction. Thank God those plans were overruled and that the Moses style approach has since been discredited.
Sir, please make a video on how to fix city planning in India.
Instead of focusing on that how about we make sure at least 90% of Indians have a roof above their head first😊
The key problem in India is probably congestion. I would say actually sprawling a little bit(not so much that it becomes car dependent like North America)
Make the cities less dense is what I’m sayin