I’ve just HEARD Spohr and I was surprised by how much I liked it (Clarinet Concertos and Chamber Music and Symphony No 1. ) I hear what you are saying about duplicated sets and agree, also I understand why Record Companies LIKE “Complete” but I wish they wouldn’t…. Trouble is after listening to you I feelI gotta listen to the LOT!
I think Spohr's symphonies are fascinating, but not as stimulating music. Frankly, much of them are stultifying. But it's like they present an alternate reality: what would the Romantic period of classical music have sounded like had there been no Beethoven? Spohr gives us a possible answer: plush Mozart, full of boorish self-importance and straining hard to be culturally significant without any profound impact whatsoever. The evolution of music could have proceeded from there, and thank god it didn't! To be fair, these symphonies are no throwaways. You can hear him trying to make works of art with these symphonies. They're just so wrong-headed. So... boring they may be, misguided they may be, I still kind of enjoy them. They are fascinating follies. That doesn't mean anyone should invest in a box set. There's no reason to listen, let alone own, all ten of them. But it's worth hearing one of them at least once.
It's important to note Spohr's influence on the early Romantic symphony. The symphonies of Mendelssohn and Schumann show much more influence of Spohr than Beethoven, in terms of structure and the way the orchestra is used.
"plush Mozart, full of boorish self-importance and straining hard to be culturally significant" -- this is simply inaccurate. The "self-importance" and "straining hard" may apply to the "concept symphonies" 4, 6, 7 and 9, but are otherwise irrelevant. The Mozart tag is simply wrong; like Beethoven, Spohr might have admired Mozart, but his works show a much stronger influence of Haydn.
The one advantage of the Hyperion series is that the woodwinds are more prominent, which gives the music more color. Regarding the symphonies, I agree with Dave's verdict overall. The best of the symphonies are 2, 3, 5, 8 and 10 (which is reminiscent of Brahms's serenades), plus the inner movements of 4. The symphonies with titles tend to inanity. I disagree with the view of Spohr as a Mozart imitator - in fact, he owed much more to Haydn! What I've heard of his quartets certainly bears this out. Of Spohr's other works, you can safely skip the violin concertos and the overtures. The late piano trios are excellent, as are the piano quintets. The nonet and octet are very good. Of his late string quintets, the third is excellent (2 and 5 are also worth hearing).
I don't have any of Spohr's symphonies in my collection. I'm a little surprised, as I like to collect obscure music from this period. I have a good number of his concertos and chamber works, which probably is for the best, as these might be his best work. Maybe I should pick up the Spohr cycle on CPO. Usually, CPO is the gold standard for obscure symphonies of this time period. The 6th sounds like it might be fun, potentially for all the wrong reasons, so now I want to hear it. Maybe instead of Spohr's symphonies, Hyperion should have dug up something really obscure that CPO hadn't touched yet.
The 6th is interesting for its concept, but I think other Spohr symphonies are more musically satisfying. You should generally avoid any symphony that has been given a title (but the inner mvts of 4 are good).
I like several of Spohr's chamber works. I have heard little of his orchestral music, but none of what I've heard was nearly as enjoyable as, say, the Nonet.
If I may be permitted to (once again) say: before viewers and listeners write off Spohr totally, listen to his Concerto for String Quartet and Orchestra in a minor, op. 131. LR
I haven't been able to get it on disc yet, but the version on youtube with the AGSO Quartet is very good. They are a Turkish outfit, and their quicker tempos really infuse the thing with life.
Yes, ASGO is good, but the intonation is pretty "iffy" (those octave passages between 1st violin and viola in the gorgeous lyrical theme (I) are really difficult to play in tune). I've done the piece twice (plus the 1st Mvt alone); once I had a quartet of very talented young players, the other a quartet from the Chicago Symphony. It was touchy for ALL of them (!). The performance on You-Tube with the follow-along full score is stronger; there's also a Cd with the Leipzig Quartet and Chamber Orchestra with Sebastian Weigel (on the MDG Gold label) that's really quite good. LR
I got into Spohr when I was researching the "social Darwinist" Herbert Spencer, who was a big fan, and who talked up No. 8 "The Power of Sound." How funny, then, to think that Spohr's works have lost out through time via the "survival of the fittest." Spencer, therefore, was both wrong and right. 🙂 Also, my interest in Spohr was brief enough that I only have the Marco Polo -- I didn't even know the other two ever came out.
Interesting that you mention Spencer in the context of Spohr -- in his time he was thought a very great philosopher/scientist (e.g.a modern Aristotle). Nowadays, who reads him?
I think of the duplication of Ferdinand Ries recordings falls into this category. I own and do enjoy everything CPO churned out, yet here comes Naxos duplicating many of Ries’ works.
Is it possible to do a review or all 8 Haydn Esterhazy Operas with Dorati on Philips? Maybe throw in the Decca Haydn Oratorio recording (also by Doriati) of Il Ritourno di Tobia, as a bonus?
As in part of the MOST or LEAST Important Recording Projects Ever? Because I'd go for the former. Truly magnificent recordings of underrated works, with STELLAR casts and Philips' wonderful 80s sound. What more could you want?
Who is the composer you mentioned around the 7 minute mark, that you said deserves to come back??? Never heard the name and would like to check it out...I tried to phonetically decipher it on Google but came up short!
Here's one for the Least Important: LSO Live. The entire label. Pumping out gobs gobs of discs of standard reportoire, often in entire cycles, in mediocre performances & generally awful sound. Is there any recording on this label that's a front-rank recording? What is this label for? We really need to know Valery Gergiev's thoughts on Mahler or Ravel? The label has diminished the stature of a great orchestra. We rightly criticize the major labels, but LSO Live feels like a cautionary tale of when the inmates run the asylum.
I've heard Spohr replaced with Brahms which makes much more sense in the company of Bach and Beethoven and is actually more mellifluous. Since Gilbert lived long enough to see Spohr virtually vanish from concert programs, at least in Britain, I'm surprised he didn't change it himself. Jessonda and Faust are kind of interesting, the concerto for String quartet and orchestra, certainly, but even the Gesangszene, Violin Cto 8, rarely surfaces anymore.
@@bbailey7818 Perhaps Gilbert originally wrote "Brahms and Beethoven", but changed it to Spohr in deference to Brahms, who was still alive at the time.
Love Spohr's 3rd, but his 7th is a hidden gem. Which is the only one in theee movements. Sounds more like a concerto than a symphony. Albeit on a lighter scale. But Dave is right, Spohr can be a bore. Go with 1, 3, 7 and 10. Skip the rest.
How do second rate symphonies reproduce? Spohrs.
As distinct from medieval Spanish knights, who reproduce by means of El Cids.
I’ve just HEARD Spohr and I was surprised by how much I liked it (Clarinet Concertos and Chamber Music and Symphony No 1. ) I hear what you are saying about duplicated sets and agree, also I understand why Record Companies LIKE “Complete” but I wish they wouldn’t…. Trouble is after listening to you I feelI gotta listen to the LOT!
When is a tidal wave of Joachim Raff symphony cycles descending on us?
I think Spohr's symphonies are fascinating, but not as stimulating music. Frankly, much of them are stultifying. But it's like they present an alternate reality: what would the Romantic period of classical music have sounded like had there been no Beethoven? Spohr gives us a possible answer: plush Mozart, full of boorish self-importance and straining hard to be culturally significant without any profound impact whatsoever. The evolution of music could have proceeded from there, and thank god it didn't! To be fair, these symphonies are no throwaways. You can hear him trying to make works of art with these symphonies. They're just so wrong-headed.
So... boring they may be, misguided they may be, I still kind of enjoy them. They are fascinating follies. That doesn't mean anyone should invest in a box set. There's no reason to listen, let alone own, all ten of them. But it's worth hearing one of them at least once.
A bit harsh, perhaps, but I basically agree with your opinions and insights. The symphonies are fascinating near-misses. LR
"Worth hearing one of them at least once." It's hard to under-sell Spohr's symphonies! 😆
It's important to note Spohr's influence on the early Romantic symphony. The symphonies of Mendelssohn and Schumann show much more influence of Spohr than Beethoven, in terms of structure and the way the orchestra is used.
"plush Mozart, full of boorish self-importance and straining hard to be culturally significant" -- this is simply inaccurate. The "self-importance" and "straining hard" may apply to the "concept symphonies" 4, 6, 7 and 9, but are otherwise irrelevant. The Mozart tag is simply wrong; like Beethoven, Spohr might have admired Mozart, but his works show a much stronger influence of Haydn.
Schumann and Mendelssohn deeply disagree with this. Sorry if I trust them more.
There are some beautiful spohr clarinet concertos
I said that in the video. Feel free to watch it!
The one advantage of the Hyperion series is that the woodwinds are more prominent, which gives the music more color. Regarding the symphonies, I agree with Dave's verdict overall. The best of the symphonies are 2, 3, 5, 8 and 10 (which is reminiscent of Brahms's serenades), plus the inner movements of 4. The symphonies with titles tend to inanity. I disagree with the view of Spohr as a Mozart imitator - in fact, he owed much more to Haydn! What I've heard of his quartets certainly bears this out. Of Spohr's other works, you can safely skip the violin concertos and the overtures. The late piano trios are excellent, as are the piano quintets. The nonet and octet are very good. Of his late string quintets, the third is excellent (2 and 5 are also worth hearing).
I don't have any of Spohr's symphonies in my collection. I'm a little surprised, as I like to collect obscure music from this period. I have a good number of his concertos and chamber works, which probably is for the best, as these might be his best work. Maybe I should pick up the Spohr cycle on CPO. Usually, CPO is the gold standard for obscure symphonies of this time period. The 6th sounds like it might be fun, potentially for all the wrong reasons, so now I want to hear it. Maybe instead of Spohr's symphonies, Hyperion should have dug up something really obscure that CPO hadn't touched yet.
The 6th is interesting for its concept, but I think other Spohr symphonies are more musically satisfying. You should generally avoid any symphony that has been given a title (but the inner mvts of 4 are good).
I like several of Spohr's chamber works. I have heard little of his orchestral music, but none of what I've heard was nearly as enjoyable as, say, the Nonet.
I agree, the chamber music is better than the orchestral music (thought the quartet-concerto is good).
@@ThreadBomb I don't think I know that particular work... I'll look it up :)
If I may be permitted to (once again) say: before viewers and listeners write off Spohr totally, listen to his Concerto for String Quartet and Orchestra in a minor, op. 131. LR
I haven't been able to get it on disc yet, but the version on youtube with the AGSO Quartet is very good. They are a Turkish outfit, and their quicker tempos really infuse the thing with life.
Yes, ASGO is good, but the intonation is pretty "iffy" (those octave passages between 1st violin and viola in the gorgeous lyrical theme (I) are really difficult to play in tune). I've done the piece twice (plus the 1st Mvt alone); once I had a quartet of very talented young players, the other a quartet from the Chicago Symphony. It was touchy for ALL of them (!). The performance on You-Tube with the follow-along full score is stronger; there's also a Cd with the Leipzig Quartet and Chamber Orchestra with Sebastian Weigel (on the MDG Gold label) that's really quite good. LR
I got into Spohr when I was researching the "social Darwinist" Herbert Spencer, who was a big fan, and who talked up No. 8 "The Power of Sound." How funny, then, to think that Spohr's works have lost out through time via the "survival of the fittest." Spencer, therefore, was both wrong and right. 🙂 Also, my interest in Spohr was brief enough that I only have the Marco Polo -- I didn't even know the other two ever came out.
Interesting that you mention Spencer in the context of Spohr -- in his time he was thought a very great philosopher/scientist (e.g.a modern Aristotle). Nowadays, who reads him?
I think Spencer may have been referring to symphony 4, "The Consecration of Tone".
@@ThreadBomb You are correct, my bad!
@@donmigueldecuenca Yes! The man who gave us "survival of the fittest" proved to be himself unfit! 🙂
Yep, I tend to agree with you!!. The very backward looking No 10 is my favourite as it's the one that sounds like Spohr the least !!!!.
It's one of several Spohr works that seems to anticipate Brahms.
I think of the duplication of Ferdinand Ries recordings falls into this category. I own and do enjoy everything CPO churned out, yet here comes Naxos duplicating many of Ries’ works.
I thought Naxos did the Ries Piano Concertos, and CPO did the Ries Symphonies so no duplication? May be wrong though.
@@folanpaul You know what? I think you are right. Good catch.
Is it possible to do a review or all 8 Haydn Esterhazy Operas with Dorati on Philips? Maybe throw in the Decca Haydn Oratorio recording (also by Doriati) of Il Ritourno di Tobia, as a bonus?
As in part of the MOST or LEAST Important Recording Projects Ever? Because I'd go for the former. Truly magnificent recordings of underrated works, with STELLAR casts and Philips' wonderful 80s sound. What more could you want?
Who is the composer you mentioned around the 7 minute mark, that you said deserves to come back??? Never heard the name and would like to check it out...I tried to phonetically decipher it on Google but came up short!
I put on the captioning and it said Kalavotas. I hope this helps.
It's probably Jan Wenzel Kalliwoda.
@@JAMESLEVEE Dave indeed said Kalliwoda
I agree about the sixth symphony. It is a silly piece of music. The first five are the ones I find more interesting.
As Spohr-Man's composers go, he's OK.
Here's one for the Least Important: LSO Live. The entire label. Pumping out gobs gobs of discs of standard reportoire, often in entire cycles, in mediocre performances & generally awful sound. Is there any recording on this label that's a front-rank recording? What is this label for? We really need to know Valery Gergiev's thoughts on Mahler or Ravel? The label has diminished the stature of a great orchestra. We rightly criticize the major labels, but LSO Live feels like a cautionary tale of when the inmates run the asylum.
Yes, there are some fabulous performances, very well recorded. Have a look at the reviews on ClassicsToday.com.
NB GREAT click bait headline!
Not for nothing was "Bach interwoven with Spohr and Beethoven" one of the fiendish punishments for crimes against music dreamt up by the Mikado.
I've heard Spohr replaced with Brahms which makes much more sense in the company of Bach and Beethoven and is actually more mellifluous. Since Gilbert lived long enough to see Spohr virtually vanish from concert programs, at least in Britain, I'm surprised he didn't change it himself.
Jessonda and Faust are kind of interesting, the concerto for String quartet and orchestra, certainly, but even the Gesangszene, Violin Cto 8, rarely surfaces anymore.
@@bbailey7818 Perhaps Gilbert originally wrote "Brahms and Beethoven", but changed it to Spohr in deference to Brahms, who was still alive at the time.
Love Spohr's 3rd, but his 7th is a hidden gem. Which is the only one in theee movements. Sounds more like a concerto than a symphony. Albeit on a lighter scale. But Dave is right, Spohr can be a bore. Go with 1, 3, 7 and 10. Skip the rest.
My Spohr is bigger and better than yours ...
I freely concede that.