Decoding Present-Day Air Combat and How Air-to-Air Missiles are Gamechangers | In Our Defence, S02
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- The Indian Air Force is preparing for a significant upgrade with the upcoming test of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)'s Astra Mark 2 air-to-air missile. This missile, capable of hitting targets up to 130 km away, is a game-changer for India's air combat capabilities. The DRDO has been developing these missiles since 2001 to engage distant targets effectively.
In this episode, Dev Goswami and defence expert Shiv Aroor discuss the importance of long-range missiles like Astra Mark 2 for modern air battles and why India needs them. They also reflect on the post-Balakot skirmish, which took place on 27 February 2019. India faced challenges in maintaining its position despite the Pakistan Air Force's (PAF) anticipated retaliation after the Balakot airstrike. The podcast analyses the dynamics of the skirmish and identifies the reasons that pinned India down.
This and more in In Our Defence!
Watch!
Produced by Anna Priyadarshini
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Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/68JNMdQ...
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Timestamps:
00:00-02:04-Introduction
2:04-11:22-What is the air-to-air missile, Astra missile?
11:22-16:36-Expensive Missiles
16:36- 31:42-The day after Balakot, Why India was pinned down
31:42-37:48--What does a modern-day cockpit look like
37:48- 42:05-different air missile systems
42:05- 49:04- Where was the Russian air force in the Ukraine war?
49:04-53:52-‘Realistic’ Air Force movies
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It was not just air to air missiles but the tech like digital map generator and most important of all AESA radar were missing during Balakot retaliation from PAF. DRDO, HAL are making them available now and can be fitted on Tejas MK1A.
We were late on Tejas MK1A which could have provided the much needed boost, firepower against PAF.
Great work!!
This will be good for many defence enthusiasts.. thanks!!
Superb and incisive look fwd to many more
It's obvious that under Narendra Modi's reign, India has developed a lot in the segment of indigenous arsenal.
always look forward to this podcast!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen themovie.... that scene of two sams is really amazing ,, BEHIND THE enemey lines
Extremely knowledgeable presentation . Kudos to shiv aroor . Interested to get such level of insights regarding drones and anti drones system.
Kudos for telling the truth
Barak 8 Surface to air missile developed with Israel is another missile that was not mentioned. Israel even stole the tech from DRDO and decided to export them on their own. DRDO just simply sat on the laurels of Akash missile and did not develop other long range missile.
DRDO already has a project to develop long range SAM (LR-SAM and XRSAM - similar to S400) named project kusha
The double pulse motor technology which we mastered in barak 8 development was used in many projects to develop A2A missiles and SAMs for eg - astra mk2, akash ng
Do you have any proof? Cause that’s serious allegations.
@@hj2711 The proof is there for everyone to see. Israel co developed with India on Barak 8, and decided not to seek permission of India while exporting to other countries and not give credit for its development as well .
@@user-ge9zk7rk7x but that depends upon the contract if they need all party permission or not. Without seeing the legal contract we could not say they steal our technology.
The Indian Establishment plays down our capabilities. Our Astra mk-1 has a range of 110 kms, Astra mk-2 has range of 160 kms. The Class apart is sfdr based Astra mk-3 with a range of 350 kms. However the success will depend upon Fighter jets as unless you have top tech AESA radars you won't have ability to deploy hitech BVR missiles in air combat.
no, it wont/cant operate in isolation. they will fly as part of AWACS. AWACS will provide the targetting data. AESA mounted on jets cant be that powerful to have 350km range. they will have to rely on AWACS.
@@user-vy4cu8ui2x DRDO is developing a very powerful variant of Uttam AESA radar for SU-30 upgradation program. This radar will have range in excess of 300kms + range. Modern AWACS have radars with a detection range of 450-600kms.
@@vipulverma2665 jab ban jaye tab batana...ye bak bak se pareshan ho gaye BC
SAM chasing F-18 hornet in Behind Enemy Lines is fabulous shot. Superb depiction.
🪷🙏ஜெய் ஸ்ரீ ராம் 🙏🪷
BVRAAM still rely on the target being illuminated for a period of time either by the launch plane or another illuminator. Assuming as is the case for Meteor, that it can use data from other sources. For example other Typhoon aircraft or latterly F35 which operate a mesh network through Link 16. The F35 and latterly Tempest will allow Meteor to be launched from a stealth platform while being guided to target by another platform, thus hiding the launch aircraft's position. The upgrade from JNAAM the British and Japanese are working on will allow the onboard radar to go active sooner and then it can 'hunt' its target. Onboard ECM resistance is good as well. All of these factors matter as much or more than just range.
Me waiting for 310 km Astra mk3 😘
*350 km
yeah wait till 3032.... looking at speed of tejas development....
@@manisherande4568 DRDO is very ahead in missile technology, SFDR technology which will be used in this missile has already been successfully tested in 2023, it would take 1 or 2 years for this missile to be developed
@@waltuh-gx4ig yeah just likr obese Arjun, obsolete Tejas,,, low ranged
pinaka... failed trishul...
@@manisherande4568 lmao how much range do you want a 214mm rocket to have
Arjun mk1a is heavyweight because the army asked DRDO to make a heavyweight MBT and it is still better than that trash tincan T90 which doesn't even have blowout panels one hit and the whole crew dies
How tf is tejas obsolete dumbass🤡
Trishul is a thing that happened in the past why don't you talk about VL-SRSAM which developed by the same DRDO and which is also much much better than trishul and has been inducted into service
And btw I was talking about missile technology and not about tanks and fighter jets, why do people like you who have no idea about anything will still argue so confidentially
The present and future air to air fight will go towards the force which had accurate long range AAM and SAM . Pakistan and Chinese have 300 km SAMs . So our IAF must plan and take necessary action to counter it other another humiliation awaits us .
A small correction - "Hones" in on the target and not homes. Excellent program. Totally agree with Shiv on Pak's use of F16s pushed India back. This is a learning for India to correct.
A small correction- "homes" in on the target , not hones .
Hones means refine or sharpen .
@@xcel5203 thanks for educating me.
Sir in air to air combat ,or for that matter any air operation, ew systems plays a very important role in it's out come , which you have not touched upon during the conversation.
India can start exporting Astra I and potentially Astra Mark II in th future to friendly nations.
first develop it and use it.....not like tejas which underdeveloped and obsolete after 40 years
Heard India is exporting Vande Bharat to Japan.
@@manisherande4568how tf is tejas obsolete dumbass and astra mk1 is already developed and in service clown🤡
@@manisherande4568astra mk1 is already developed and inducted into service, and can you please explain me what makes you think that tejas is obsolete
@@xcel5203 how are trains related to this
Your Editor needs to go on a hike or maybe he isnt happy he is paid less. He must be sleeping thats why @ 30:09 suddenly changes to your Hymen reconstruction podcast. Are you kidding me? Lol 😂
😂😂😂 Hymen reconstruction edit😂😂😂
On 27th Feb, we hit a JF-17 and not a F-16??? Are u sure? The Awacs trail clearly showed a F16 disappearing. And why is there radio silence from both Pakistani and Indian defence chatters on social media on this EXPLOSIVE blast from Shiv???
And that day dogfight, Shiv doesnt mention that PAF brought numerical advantage to the battlefield, both in terms of fighters and force multipliers, their F16s gained more height(missile fired from 40k ft has greater range than an one fired from 30k ft), that IAF sukhois were flying low to protect a critical target, they had to climb up to use their R-77s to such long ranges but were dissauded from doing so by the air command centre etc etc. Simply saying the Pakistanis got the upper hand just becoz they had the Amraams is making things a bit simplistic......
Actually even if a BVR missile is fired the target aircraft these days have a suit of evading measures which allows the missile to miss it's target. So a BVR missile must also have a builtin intelligence to counteract these defensive measures of the target.
Absolutely, precision and technique are crucial when dealing with missiles or fighter planes. It's not just about range but also about having the accuracy and skill to navigate through various maneuvers effectively very good point raised here
what about chinese BVR missiles....????
Most of the people don't remember thaf R-73 missiles thaf India bought were low range missiles. There are long range versions for the same. It was IAF's fault for not buying those.
And seriously, we lost that battle miserably.
No r73 has effective range r 15-20km,r77 has 80km range
45:46 Incorrect to say that there were no Ukrainian air force fighters fighting back. There was Ukrainian Air force fighter defense, it just wasn't as effective as it needed it to be because they are still mostly using cold war era hardware.
Poor line of questioning.. When Shiv is mentioning that Anti Aircraft weapons and SAMs lead Russia to avoid using its air power, then this should be further deep dived into, How the doctrine should evolve. And India needs to build its own S400 type system on priority. If $1m SAM can take out a $100m fighter, that really begs a question for focus on Loitering munitions, drones, SAMs into IAF doctrine just like 42 Squadron debate.
SU 30 MKI of India successfully dogged Aimraam of F16.
Shiv stating that a JFD17 was shot down when IAF claims it was an F16. What is his source of info?????
The USA engineer who was stationed in Pakistan, responsible for supervising F16, was after a month or so, given special award by USA for his quick thinking and service in Pakistan. Apparently he in coordination with Pakistan military, quickly managed to identify crash site, secure site, load crashed parts in truck to be moved back to base, so that F16 getting shot down by a Mig-21, a PR nightmare was avoided, not to forget our AWACS could clearly identify the different type of Planes airbone, by their known radar signature, so we know exactly what was flying and where, and what went in pieces and off radar. I totally agree with Shiv on all rest he said. But not on F16, it was a twin seat F16 trainer variant which went down. Maybe Shiv access to F16, F18 etc hinges on fact that USA planes are not given bad name. Or pocketed by Lockheed Martin, to muddle waters on F16, while being true on others.
His information as any Reporter unknown sponkesman😂The pilot radio MSG he firing got lock on he knows what he was chasing and radr data shows it was f-16 that got hit, becus thejf17 signature r different and 5f16 that comes close to border was detected and engaged !
The uncomfortable truth is america doesnt care India. Dont have imaginary feelings that america likes india etc. dont assume air cheif words. If rafel is a deterent, then f-16 and aamram. Then we should have runwat - but we did fight.
Long range anraam has less chance hit but As su30is big plane it shows first in radr
What was the air defence system doing??
Now Shiv Arur has also become a expert to comment on Air Battle
Anyone can be an expert if they do thorough research
Meteor is more accurate than AMRAM
Longer range accurate detection,longer range accurate missiles and least detection of the aircraft by enemies are the factors that will determine who survives! The concept of old dogfight capacity is for the history and has very little meaning anymore! Cheaper projectile such as plastic and cardboard drones have cost benefit and effective use bombing!
Pls show pictures
Editor is like lets add a spicy 🔥 Twist by adding a hymen reconstruction @30:09 today is my last day@ work
Sorry, PLAAF from China has PL Air to Air which is 350km+
Dedi weapons should be our Raksha mantra.
Another thing they missed was software defied radios, which we did not have and they were able to jam our communications
It was a great failure on the part of IAF on that day that neither any aircraft with AAM or SAM could down any Pakistani aircraft . Though if our Air Marshals or Air Chiefs were smart or visionary they could have downed 3/4 Pakistan aircraft . If we did not had long range AAM then what about SAM s.
Should change the background, less distracting like other podcasts
So, it seems that in every Pak-India conflict, Pakistan successfully used US made weapons against India. This holds true even in the recent spat. Moral of this story, watch what US does, not what US says.
TEJAS need to be fitted with Astra Mark 2 other wise it will be shot down by Chinese PL 15 missiles used in JF17,That just fact
The Indians are claiming developing this and that system it but on reality they heavily dependent on foreign weapons
1/n
Hi Dev and Shiv, big fan. But I have a disagreement with Shiv on the Russia-Ukraine issue.
TL;DR : Russia was unable to appropriately establish clear air superiority early in the war because of a lack of capability (planning, training, and equipment) rather than a desire not to.
1. If you look at the opening weeks of the war, it was clear that the war aims included Kiev and capturing Hostomel airport to establish and air-bridge.
2/n
2. The war aim was initially to decapitate the Ukrainian government, establish a puppet, and create a land bridge to Crimea. However, their failure to do this in the first week was catastrophic.
3. The complete failure of the Russian Air Force and Russian army to use combined arms tactics resulted in this WW1 style battle of attrition rather than rapid maneuver style warfare.
3/n.
4. The corruption inside the Russian armed services has been rampant for decades leading to a complete atrophy in their ability to maintain equipment, train pilots in appropriate mission sets (
4/4
6. Finally I think Indians don’t have to worry about the fact that we have a lot of Russian equipment. Tactics, doctrine, training, command, and maintenance will play a far greater role.
THERE IS NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH RUSSIAN/SOVIET ENGINEERING.
If you know how to use the tool that you have, you can get the job done.😂
This UA-RU conflict is proving to be a blessing in disguise for every country that is worth its GDP, vis-a-vis, materiel self sufficiency and war making preparedness !😊
So ironic, a video of MK3 was following this video.
Crux of the matter is our AF officers were so dumb or really boastful of our Su30s that they claim that our SU30s have 400km radar range (even assume it to be 200) is still more than f16 which they compare with mig29upgs or mirage2000I but forget that the missile range of f16 is more than our su30/mig29 & even mirages... having spend billions on plane & not on missile is the dumbest thing you could do.. seems like iaf decision makers were more keen on getting latest rayban than a2a missiles..
Half knowledge is dangerous 😊
You forget1971 war was won by Marut
not marut it was gnats,,,,,
Pakistan and China uses PL 15 and PL 17 missiles and its operational ranges are more than 200 km to 300 km. why was it not discussed in the interview? Pakistan bought those PL15 from china inorder to have an edge in operational ranges over India. They even bought rockets which are more than 300 km range while India’s rockets maximum range is only 90 to 120 km? Now India plans to develop 300 km range rockets , by the time India develops one , it’s going to be late again . Pakistan is going to to get first 5 th generation fighters from either China or Turkey. Hope Indias AMCA first flight takes place before 2035!
Critical analysis & hard truths can't be swallowed or accepted by all , what is done by these analyses is done by the Indian military itself , you have to look at holes in your armour & how to block it out. Interestingly even with the backward stuff we had in the air we still managed a successful strike. Pilots from other countries come to India to learn how it was conducted ( hopefully allies to India ). The Indian military is now part of a profit generating machine that means private players , profits & high quality systems.
Indian forces now kinda have a doctrine of compensating for inferior tech(for obvious reasons) with superior tactics against Pakistan, for decades.
On an average, even the yearly flying hours for IAF pilots are almost double compared to average PAF pilot.
Using mig21 as the ambush attacker flying with radar off (externally guided), is the tactical genius that even USAF was impressed with, and that was developed especially to counter F16s.
The terrain where this engagement happened was in a way perfect to execute such a risk, sudden appearance of a pair of mig21s on their radars threw the retreating PAF formation off just enough that an r73 was able to get an IR lock, which is almost impossible to evade. We know for a fact that f16s were flying supersonic, that means they were on afterburner.
There's a reason why IAF has retired mig25, mig27 etc but mig21 still flies.
Mig21 is the acclaimed widow- maker flying-coffin .
Only criticism…get over bro…dont spread wrong information…f16 got shot…non pilot…non soldier…what stopped pakistan from accepting that jf 17 was shot down…rather than f16…only self made stories…stories
So by 2019 our Airforce was just paper Tiger
PL- 15 has more range then meteor
Whether Russian are saving airforce to real enemy NATO.
I had so much respect for Shiv Aroor but lost a bit of it today. The reason why Russia did not use airpower in Ukraine was because they has a lack of smart bombs and so to make their dumb bomb hit a designated target they had to fly low in aircraft that surprisingly did not have MAWS (missile approach warning sensors) to detect MANPADS missile launch which are basically heat seeking missiles. This led to many top line fighters being lost. That and lack of combat training of Russian pilots during peacetime led to under par performance of their planes and pilots.
If F 16 was not shot down then how india displayed the wreckage of Amraam missile?? Kindly reply ..since you podcast cover does not answer all questions.
That was the cover of amraan which was fired on Indian su-30.
Bro , why you think these idiots know what happend that day ? Neither india nor pakistan is telling what has happend . So how come these jokers knew ? There are various various proof of f16 being shot down .
Prithvi is a Surface to Surface missile system. Please do your homework before making such important videos.
Also the S400 has 3 different kinds of missiles rather than 2 which was mentioned here.
The guest might be a pilot of IAF but he still needs a bit more info on many things especially on the anti missile systems which are being currently operated by India!
WHO IS THIS SHIV? WHY IS HE NOT THE NATIONAL ADVISOR TO PM ON WAR STRATEGY, WHY HE IS NOT THW CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER OF INDIN AIR FORCE OR WHY IS HE NOE CEO OF DRDO, OR HE IS ANITHER MR. BARKHA DUTT?????!!!!!!!
Stop over action..and present data
Worst part.. we still havent learnt the lesson from 27th feb.. we still havent worked on our MRFA project.. basically we are almost at same level we were in 2019 except rafales.. and mind u, we are talking about Pakistan here.. imagine china attacking with J20.. do we have anything to tackle a fleept of 250 j20s ??
Well said. Something seems amiss. With the prospect of war with China becoming more pronounced nowadays, we should atleast buy one squadron of 5th gen fighter. Later when AMCA comes, it comes.
It seems we do hanky panky procurements after getting beaten by our enemies
very informative and sensible talk...but i am saying it with 100% certainity that there was not a single pakistani jet shot down on that day...its impossible to hide something that big. All four missiles from W/C abhi was found with the wrackage of mig 21. how i could be possible to score a kill without firing a missile. In dogfight situation its SOP i mean its obligatory to punch your drop tanks but the drops tanks were still attached found in wrackage. it means there was no aircombat being done by w/c and he was not getting full satuational awareness due to the jamming of communication by pakistanis... and i am saing it being an aviation enthusiast not a pakistani....
So you are saying Indian Awacs in Air, receiving signature of missile fired by Mig21, observing its flight path and then hitting a pakistani plane, which went in pieces and then off radar, was also a digital collective hallucination encouraged by our dual eyes on skies. How astute. Our Mig21 on interception mission, fly with only 4 missiles, since you didnt approve 6 or 8. How are you having any knowledge at all of flying envelope. Like my baggy pants having 5 pockets, but on losing a wallet, self appointed 12th pass CID thana detective policemen, refuses to take complaint, as saying, these many pockets dont exist on a pant, tell truth where you lost wallet. You are like that aviation enthusiast.
@@sandeepssangha are u dumb.. i can understand it after all you are an endian...gadhe... your mig 21 can carry only four missiles cause it has only four stations available for that. according to you it could carry 8 then good luck with that.. by the way how dumb your radar was that day it could't figure out the difference between jf 17 and f 16. and dont talk about flight envelope you can talk only a shit and we are happy with that how dumb and pathetic our enemy is..i dont know how many pockets in your pants that day but i know one thing, all your pockets were fucked up like an old whore...when in panic you shot down your own chopper killing 6 personals on board...now you can say that a chopper could carry 8 or 10 people...why it has 6 on that day...
@@sandeepssangha are you dumb? you did't even know that the mig 21 can carry only four missiles cause it has only four pilons on wings for that...if according to you could carry 6 or 8 then best of luck for that...i can understand after all your are an endian...we are much happy and satisified with this fact that we have such a dumb and pathetic enemy...i did't know how many pockets you had on that day..but i know one thing...all your pockets were fucked up like an old whore on that day one mig 21 shot down pilot captured, praded on international media...in panic your dumb air defence fucked his own chopper killed 6 personal on board...i hope you will continue this lagacy...
@@sandeepssanghaWhat was the truth about launching missile into Pak territory without even being aware of it - wasn't there any signature then or perhaps alarm bells .
Pakistan did that in past. During afgan war... PAF shoot down it's own f-16 by another f-16and hide it for 2 decades.
Achor takes long time and too many sentences to verbalise his question...otherwise it's ok 😅😅😅
Dog Fight is a old Russian mindset.....India need to get out of these mindset
Personally I am not scared... Pakistan using F16 and Amraams purchased off the shelf. What will happen if their inventories fall down,.. They don't have a real defence manufacturing sector?
Buying r-junk should be avoided.
We certainly don't have a muti-tiered air defence system like Israel
After spending Billions of dollars on air defence,all India could only show, Abhinandan selling Pakistani tea.That money could have been well spent on public welfare. Pakistan had smarter foreign policy siding with America rather than the failed Russia 😮😮😮😮
Not ur subject!!! Shiv
kitna STAMMERAGE yarr!
DRDO always plans.. But doesn't do anything..
Everytime saying ahaaaa, ahaaaa, ahaaaa, while talking sucks 😔😔😔😔
Makes him sound like defense expert .
The poor economy of India doesn't allow to purchase F35 aircraft from USA.
USA doesn't wanna sell us F35s because we purchased S400 from Russia same case like turkey or else F35 was cheaper than rafale (however it requires higher maintenance cost than rafale bcs it's a 5th gen fighter)
Pensions freebies in india hindering the purchase and deduction in defence budget
We trust our force. Not you. If they say f16 was shot then we trust is rather than backimg you who is strenghthening pak's agenda.
Who the hell is this fkking shiv ??? Trying to gain some view in youtube . This is called negative publicity
Why are we wasting time talking about the past, thats why we will never see the future in India. We should have more professional and futuristic podcast to prepare India in the new age war. This is the problem, always living in the past. No time for stories, please learn from the chinese and Pakistani, do not blow trumpet that our enemy knows everything about us.
You also forgot to match we also didn't have modern 4++ gen fighters. Our successive irresponsible Governments & poor establishment delayed MMRCA and shamefully Vintage MIG 21s comprised a good no of our squardrons. Neither we upgraded our SU-30s with hitech onboard weapons not learning from Russians who moved to SU-35s. Even today we find poor Govt & bureaucracy boasting of a small no of Rafaels, when Chinese PLAF are inducting 500 J-20s and a good no of 5th gen FC-31s. Even a Military ruled Pakistanis are ahead on planning basis looking to induct 5th gen fighters.
Hahahaha only lie
India need to buy david slinger from Israel
Instead of buying we should develop our own
Stop this tirade
Abhijit iyer mitra ko bulao
Lmao that clown😂
Never.
@@sahilnegi4071 Kyun yaar
@@waltuh-gx4ig His views are concurrent with those of your hosts. Plus , you must be open to opposing views.
@@divyomchauhan9253 he's a clown he doesn't know anything about defence, go and watch alpha defence's video on him he completely exposed that fraud
So basically we are screwed and our leaders are wasting money on new parliament and temples when our air force is flying museum pieces with outdated weapons, Amca will take another 30 years with the past track record of HAL and the PLA already has 200+ J-20😮
under modi big strides have been made, shiv aroor is not an authority of everything in IAF arsenal. with any other joker in power even this upgradation and induction would not have happened. new parliament and ram mandir is also equally important.
@@srinivasaniyer6219 All these bloody politicians are joker they don't care about anything but power, and what big strides are you talking about? Depleting squadron strength, not enough missiles and radars, 126 fighter induction still didn't happen it will take another 5+ years to induct lca mk2 when Pak is going to induct 5th gen fighter within the next few years and with China there is no comparison. Wake up and smell the coffee boy, no bloody parliament or mandir will save the nation in time of war. And this guy is just stating the truth and like they say sacchai kadvi hoti hai beta.
Indian Air force is the least efficient service of all . I would rate any day the Pakistani air force much higher .
IAF got India humiliated . The ease with which the Pakistanis trashed them was very excruciating .
Sending these clowns against the Chinese or any other top force would be catastrophic .
A third rate, poorly equipped , anachronistic air force that is a waste of money and effort .
Let me guess , your mother is selling herself in karachi and you wife is giving service to a Chinese. Cause in recent news we come to know that pakistanis are selling their womens to chinese guys .
What was the air defence system doing??