The History of MOBY GRAPE part one |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- A band of considerable reputation, Moby Grape has confounded fans as to why this group did not find a wider audience in their day. The usual excuses are offered by many historians but a closer look reveals more than just a band scorned. This two-part series will dive deep into their 60s catalog and weigh the evidence that contributed to their tumultuous run.
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That debut album was amazing. Every song was great and unique, and it was one of my favorites. I was lucky enough to see the original band live in a club in Philly.
Thank you so much for this. Their debut album is surely one of the greatest ever. I got it when I was 13, in 1967, and my older brother bought it for me after me having surgery. I have listened to their albums a lot since the death of Jerry Miller and I love them as much now as then. Thank you also for killing the wine and no corkscrews story.
Thanks Thomas, this was a satisfying video series to do.
@@popgoesthe60s52 I don't remember if you mentioned it but the band did not want to do the Jam album, but instead an album of classic rock songs. That I really would like to hear. Looking forward to part 2.
@@thomasroth4533 I didn't mention that and was unaware of them wanting to do a classic rock song album - thanks for that!
don't call me Shirley
Played with Miller in Lawrence KS. in 2007. Great player. Great time playing with him. RIP Jerry
Jerry Miller was one of the finest musicians to come out of the late 1950s-early 1960s in the Pacific NorthWest. He played for a couple of influential NW bands the Dynamics, etc. The Frantics were one of the first to gain regional success. Jimi Hendrix met up with the Dynamics/Frantics, when he was hanging around a local venue called the Spanish Castle...this was early on, maybe 1960-61. In the mid-sixties, it became clear, that the heyday of the NW Sound was fading. So Miller and Stevenson decided to move to San Francisco, where there was another type of Rock evolving. It was a lucrative move...and Hendrix, after becoming a big star, wore a Moby Grape pin on his famous hat. He was a big fan.
@@curbozerboomer1773So "Spanish Castle Magic" came from there maybe?
I didn't know Jerry Miller died. I saw him in 2003 at a revival of Moby Grape. Great guitar player!
@@gregholmes1289 A lot of the musical greats from our era are dropping like flies now. Sad to see.
@@robomaster4882 Too true! I have a CD of the Jerry Miller band, a two-CD of Moby Grape's " Greatest Hits", and a vinyl "Grape Jam" LP.
I love all your videos but this is the one I've been waiting for, especially now with the passing of Jerry Miller. This group should have been huge, they seemed to have it all - interesting and catchy songs, excellent vocals, and superb playing. I'll never fully understand why this group didn't receive the acclaim they should have gotten. There's relatively little written about them, and there aren't any documentaries on them, it's a real shame. Thank you for shedding some light on this amazing, underappreciated group. I can't wait for part two!
They were a great live band. I saw them on Halloween, at The Beverly Garland Inn, Sacramento, in 1996. They had a replacement drummer, Tiran Porter, formerly of The Doobie Brothers, played bass guitar, and Sam Andrew, from Big Brother and The Holding Company, subbed in for Skip Spence, who was not in any shape to play at the time. Bob Mosley did vocals only. They stretched out all their songs into jams, improvising on vocals as well. I got to speak with them between sets. Good guys. R.I.P. Jerry Miller and Skip Spence.
THE greatest pure rock band ever in all of history. Thanks for finally doing a profile on these guys. R.I.P. Jerry Miller.
Hmmm. Don’t want to be that guy, but someone has to. Come on man. RIP Jerry Miller, Skip, etc and RIP logical, well thought out comments…
@@richieboy6825 You know where you can put your utterly worthless snark, pal. 😆
@@anthonykimball7463 ok no more snark - but do you REALLY believe they were THE greatest ? Stones, Beatles, Dead, Who, Tull, Boston, Pearl Jam, etc all take a back seat, eh?
@@richieboy6825 I honestly think they were THE greatest, but there were a few other bands who came close. You mentioned the Beatles, The Grateful Dead and The Who, and those are also bands I love.
@@anthonykimball7463 Except the Beatles were mostly a fake band that only sang on almost all the songs, especially in the early days.
Bassist Bob Mosley was the most soulful singer I have ever heard. "Seeing" wrapping up the 2nd main album still blows me away.
FINALLY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, MATT. JERRY MILLER RIP.
My pleasure.
@@popgoesthe60s52 At the Paul McCartney show at SF in 2010, I met an older hippie chick, who had been part of the scene as a 15 year old in ‘66. She told me Moby Grape’s original name was The Beans, as in Benzedrine. Kids, don’t try this at home!
Was hoping to see this one materialize. I live about 12 miles from Jerry Millers home. Thanks Matt
Thanks for doing a series on the Grape! My favorite debut album ever, from the best of the San Fran bands. I never get tired of it! RIP Jerry Miller 2024.
I can't wait to watch this! I was going to request them years ago. Thanks, Matt. The guitarist, Jerry Miller is Clapton's favorite guitarist. I read.
Along with Buffalo Springfield my favourite U.S. band. So much talent and potential.
I've always thought of Buffalo Springfield as a Canadian band.
Just started this - hope I don't cry at the end because of all the misfortunes of this great, great band!
Been looking forward to this for a long time, Matt. THANK YOU!
Such a great band - fantastic to see them getting such a fine retrospective. Truly Fine Citizen is one of the greatest short songs ever too, even if they were spiralling by then. Thank you
Such fascinating music and history in these groups. They were all basically folkies turned Rock’n’Rollers. Janis, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Mamas & Papas, Quicksilver Messenger Service, The Byrds, etc etc
Ii guess Dylan made it OK....BTW, it was inevitable
@@willicat44 Exactly! He was the first one to go electric. I didn’t mention him I guess because at least I tend to think of him as a solo artist, not as a group per se.
Miriam Linna of Norton records mentioned, on the occasion of Jerry's passing, The Frantics unreleased album from 66 as a possible future release on her label. I'm really looking forward to hearing it and I think other Grape fans will love it too. Thank you for this, I really enjoyed it. R.I.P. Jerry Miller❤
I didn't know they had a album's worth of material! Hopefully we get to hear it someday.
Jerry also played on the Chocolate Watchband's often put down 3rd LP. I love that album.
@@popgoesthe60s52 The Frantics started as an instrumental group. They charted a few tunes while they were signed to the Dolton label. Their most popular 45RPM(and best in my opinion) is "Werewolf" with Mgr. Bob Reisdorf doing the opening "Vincent Price" recitation. The Frantics got passed by when Reisdorf signed The Ventures to his Dolton label. The Ventures covered "Werewolf" on their "Ventures In Space" LP. Reisdorf didn't add his recitation to it this time, and the tune was retitled as "The Fourth Dimension." My brother bought the initial Moby Grape LP, we both thought it was great! Our band performed "Omaha" a few times. My big surprise after many years was learning that Jerry, Don, and Bob were later members of The Frantics! Outstanding musicians! Great video here, I have enjoyed the subject matter, thank you for putting it together for us!
Thanks for doing a History of Moby Grape there one of my favorites and you have already filled in a lot of blanks for me 👍❤️👍
Love me some Grape. "I like "Funky-Tunk' it's pretty funny.Thanks for this overview, can't wait for Pt. 2
Killer!! Thank You!!
Looking forward to part 2
It's interesting that the Grape guys used the term 'crosstalk' to describe how their guitar playing meshed. I've heard what LSD does to all of the senses during a trip called 'crosstalk' in the past too.
Great presentation once again Matt! Thanks for all the research.
I *love* these deep dives. Thanks Matt!
The Grape were simply unmatched by any other SF band. Their musicianship, individual voices, and remarkable harmonies, are a thing of beauty and awe.
By the way, the cover art for "WOW" was nominated for a Grammy for best album art.
was not expecting moby grape for some reason, but am so happy, one of my favorite bands of all time
At last, thanks Matt! I think 'Omaha' was the first track we heard in Britain. 'Can't Be So Bad' remains a favourite go-to cut. There remains an overall feeling of sadness about what might have been.
The Move's version of "Hey Grandma" is stupendous. It should have been a big hit for one of the groups.
I think the Move were fans of a lot of west coast rock. They did Byrds covers, too
They were a big influence on the 90's UK band the Verve as well. RIP Jerry Miller. Looking forward to part 2!
Love the way your beer goes down slowly throughout the video...
The first Moby Grape has become one of my all-time faves. Criminally underrated!
Underrated because it's under-heard. Blame Katz for keeping it out of circulation for so long. When Columbia finally put it and the rest of their Grape material on CD in 1993, I thought it was finally the moment the first album got its due. Then here comes Katz and his lawyers again.
Effing Katz … He screwed over the Jefferson Airplane, too
@@leamanc That kinda shit sucks in so many ways besides monetary.. ya can't recapture the spirit, essence of a point in time 25 years on.
Thank you for covering this band. As an old hippie I was there to buy the 2nd two record album and enjoyed it immensely at the time. You managed to add some new details (at least for me) to their story. I was pretty well besotted by the San Francisco music scene, and they brought a new side to that aesthetic.
Another winner Matt! A top ten list of the worst band managers of the 1960's would be interesting (and probably sobering.)
Good idea, Scott!
@@popgoesthe60s52 That is a great idea.
I always loved "Wow" just as it is.
R.I.P. Jerry
WoW is a masterpiece. I don't care what Matt thinks. You had to be there.
Of all the bands you've covered, perhaps this is the one that deserves a rediscovery the most. Sorry Jerry Miller didn't quite live to see it. I'm glad you didn't try to fit everything into one video; heavens know there's still quite a story ahead.
I appreciate the feedback! I shot my on camera portion the day before Jerry died so I am sad he won't get to see it. I'll be working on part two next week so stay tuned!
Great video about one of my favorite bands from my high school years. Look forward to the remaining episodes.
Defo the BEST 60's San Fran Band. Hands Down. Skip Spence was another Tragic Genius.
Fascinating, Matt! I remember the jam lp... thank you, waiting for part 2!
Moby Grape…denim jackets, cowboy hats, a bag of Humboldt County weed and a sheet of blotter acid. My youth!
The most potential of any group in rock history. Who else had five members who could all sing, play, and write?
blue oyster cult just off the top of my head
Queen had four, they only used one guitarist, all four "each" had #1 hits in US & Uk
the Moody blues
Beach Boys
Rare Earth.
RIP, Jerry. Huge influence to so many of us.
Nice one, Matt! As a kid in early 70's California, this band and others like It's a Beautiful Day made an impression. Interesting how the popularity of psyche influenced more folk/blues-based bands, both artistically and sometimes just from a marketing standpoint.
Thanks, Matt. the first album is still a major fav of mine. I knew there story pretty well, but enjoyed additional background in your videos.
I find it extraordinarily fascinating that trend-chasing in the late 60s took the form of throwing experimental sound collages and freakout sections into your music. Oh, how things have changed!
Sarcasm. Hmmmm
Oh thanks for this! Best band/debut album. Sitting By The Window --guitar work is spectacular!
Excellent, Matt !
Matt when I was seven years old in 1967, Mrs Richardson the co owner of the record shop in downtown Longview Texas knew Skip Spence and apparently used to come and visit the record shop. In 1985 Mrs Johnson opened up a new record store called Moby Grape, she got permission to use the name somehow, Skip approved. It.
Skip didn't have the rights to it. Katz did. But Skip was so far gone he didn't know it.
Matt, thanks for this, finally. Huge Grape fan. Their first album is a desert island disc for me. Do you know why Columbia released five singles at once? The band had gotten an offer from Columbia, but approached Atlantic Records, who wined and dined them and made them a great offer. The band went to Columbia, told them Atlantic had given them an offer, then went back to Ahmet at Atlantic, who said, "Are they going to release four singles at once?" They took that back to Columbia, who agreed to release five singles at once, which confused DJs, as you know. So, all five singles basically flopped, except for "Omaha," which got some chart action, as you mentioned. Ahmet knew that releasing five singles was a stupid thing to do! I contacted Matthew Katz at one point and offered to let him tell his side of the story on his "management style." This quickly devolved into acrimony and threats of him suing me if I wrote anything he didn't like. I deleted his email and never wrote the article. Good riddance. I saw The Grape at The Wetlands in NYC years later, probably around '97 or so. Looking forward to the next installment. Lots more to tell you as we go along.
Never heard that about Atlantic vs. Columbia as reason for five singles at once. Source? I know the documentary Ahmet Ertegun talks about losing out to Columbia. But the five singles - I read that it was a misunderstanding: Columbia brass asked Rubinson what the single was and he answered something to the effect of "there's five singles" or some such. That more than anything did the band in - they never had a hit single. I agree with Jerry Miller: Omaha / (8:05 would have been a sure top 10 hit.
I was a bit underwhelmed when I heard Wow and after hearing the original versions vs the album versions, now I know why. Can't wait for Part 2!
As always! Awesome job!! Go Matt!! Money grape was a killer band!! Thank you sir!!
I just purchased an edition of their first album with the hype sticker covering Stevenson's middle finger photo. The guy who owned the shop where I bought it knew nothing about this band or the fact that it was their debut album, so he sold it to me for $12.00, it's in perfect condition. I've had the Wow album with Grape Jam for a long time, but the debut album is pretty rare, especially with the banned cover.
Thanks for this video on Moby Grape Matt! My name isn't really Bert if their debut didn't hit me like one of the very finest albums from the 60s! Not one to likely turn up in greatest albums ever lists though, surprisingly.
After watching this first part I replayed the 2CD Vintage anthology in its entirety yesterday and enjoyed almost every second of it. They sure could be goofy though at times, especially Skip, whose solo album will likely feature in part 2. The production on Wow is at times distracting too, yes, almost weird for weird's sake. Never listened to the jam album but it's interesting that Led Zeppelin found yet another artist they could plagiarize within its grooves! And yes, FWIW, Murder in My Heart for the Judge should have been a hit for them... maybe the title was a little off putting for some... Looking forward to part 2 already, even if their story isn't really an upwards trajectory exactly.
Met Jerry Miller at the Blue Moon Tavern in Seattle. The early 90's. Cool guy, bought him a brew. RIP
Hats off to you, Matt. A splendid history as impressive as the Grape's debut.My heartfelt thanks along with my continued admiration for your work. Looking forward to part two.
Thank you, Rick!
Ah, the Grape. Band after my own heart. Loved their first album, had the record with the middle finger, black or red flag, and the huge foldout poster, played it to death, like Wow, too, not as much, but then thought Moby Grape '69 was fantastic, and Truly Fine Citizen had its moments, too. Great treatment of the subject here. Well done!!
Part II will be out later this week!
Looking forward to your opinion on Alexander Spence's Oar, a record most people find hard to take but that I love!
Same here! Just recently got it, with the extra tracks added in… Love it!❤
5 singles at once!
Only a corporate executive could do something that stupid
Good video
I heard Moby Grape at The World in Miami, Florida in 1967. They were a great live band. Their infectious groove on shuffles like “Hey Grandma” was irresistible. Their soulful singing and harmonies was organic like the Beatles. All of that plus the Miller’s Chicago style blues guitar and the country guitars styles of Spence and Lewis was present in their live show WITHOUT special effects, drum machine, keyboards, synthesizer, a click track, the Wrecking Crew, George Martin, Phil Specter, auto tuning, ya ya girls,etc. The psychedelic effects and orchestration after the first album were mostly off target and detracted rather than enhanced the band’s powerful chemistry.
At 19 years old, I bought the double album set and loved every minute of them!
Skip Spence looks like quite the character...
These are truly great man, thank you!
I listened to the first Moby Grape the other day. Simply amazing.
I was there in the 1960's when the first album was released. Moby Grape had some sort of multi singles were released so the DJ's did not know which single records to play. What a shame.
brilliant....been waiting for this...omahaaaaaa!!!
When I was 13 in Virginia, my friend's brother was in the Coast Guard based in California and brought this album back on a visit. My friend loaned it to me and it totally blew my mind! As a burgeoning bass player, Bob Mosely's bass playing was like nothing I'd ever heard and I spent many hours trying to learn his lines. I have never gotten into any of their other albums, too "hippi-fied". Thanks for the great video and I look forward to the next part. I hope you get into the Skip Spence story, another great solo album by a lost soul.
Great video. I've always heard about Moby Grape but had no idea of the history.
Nice presentation Matt.Loved it
Thank you, Thomas!
Thanks for this. I sure do appreciate you doing a piece on Moby Grape. I loved that first album when I heard it in the 60's. It just seemed perfectly right for the time and it seemed to fit in so well with all of the San Fran scene. Thanks for what you do. So much work for you to dig up all the details. I sure do appreciate it. Thanks for your dedication to your craft.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Loved Moby Grape! Great band.
John Cippolina...loved his guitar work
Brilliant Matt...This review was just one of the Bands I've been waiting for you to review. I've had for some Years American Sampler Albums, mainly CBS and liked the Moby Grapes tracks. Waiting for their history...........Still waiting for the same of IRON BUTTERFLY..Great Many Thanks from dear Ole London.
Absolutely love your band videos !
Wow, been waiting for this one Matt, thanks so much....hammer!!!!!!!
Really interesting episode, these guys did some great stuff.
Looking forward to Part II
I appreciate this. Moby Grape is one of those bands I've read a lot about but have never really gotten into their music. I hear echoes of Jefferson Airplane and the general San Francisco Sound in some of their songs, but I think the lack of a front man/main singer hurt them. Most bands seem to thrive on having a "personality" (usually the guitarist or lead singer) to connect with the audience, and I didn't see that here (though Mosley came close). It's also good to have more context on the hype and their early success. Two albums charting at #24 and # 20 is impressive especially without major hits.
They certainly benefited from the new FM radio format. Thanks for the comments, Greg.
@@popgoesthe60s52 You're welcome. I also appreciated the analysis on why they released five singles at the same time. It makes sense that they were trying to mimic The Beatles' accomplishment four years earlier.They failed to understand that Beatlemania was already in full swing and that the earlier songs were released on different record labels (because Capitol had refused to release them in the US). Those were unique circumstances. MB and Columbia were naive to try to imitate such success right out of the gate.
Great work Matt. Thank you. I forgot how great those guys were.
Thank you, Kelly!
Yeah buddy!
I remember the songwriting contest in 67-68 that resulted in "Lake" At the same time, there was a similar contest in Los Angeles for Buffalo Springfield that resulted in a song on 'Second Time Around'
Such a shame these guys didn’t get the proper recognition. Loved their first album and I also named my cat 🐈⬛ after them.
Great coverage - a classic Matt video ... my brother in law is a great Skip Spence fan - and was very high up in a company that did musical compilations -
I was a college freshman in 1967 on the east coast and was very aware of the band and the San Francisco sound etc. I negotiated with a college buddy for the "Grape Jam" disk from the set and have it to this day. I loved the raw guitar playing. Seems like we, music lovers of the period, were deprived of the full potential of Moby Grape by record business of the day and miss management. Too bad, one can only speculate about what might have been. At least we are still talking about them over 55 years later.
Thanks so much, Matt. Not a band I knew much about (but now need to check out)!
My pleasure, Ken!
I clicked like before i even watched your video ,thanks for this love it .
A book you might like: Riot On Sunset Strip: Rock 'n' Roll's Last Stand In Hollywood (Revised Edition) - Domenic Priore.
My only introducion to this band was when I bought the double album. I really didnt care for it.....not even a little. But I found this video FASCINATING. GREAT WORK!
This was an excellent episode, very informative and seeming to hit the issues that cost this band. I’ve only listened to the first LP. Learned a lot.
The other albums, while not masterpieces, all have some worthwhile material on them. I will cover that in part two.
Brilliant!
I've only heard of Moby Grape but know anything else. Thanks for the info and such a great download!
Thank you Drew!
Moby Grape should have been named "Murphy's Law."
Don't forget the corollary to Murphys Law; Murphy was an optimist.
Don Stevenson went on to coach my brother's soccer team throughout the 1980s 😂
I heard a track ('He') from Wow in late 1968 on the Australian radio show 'Thompsons Underground' (2UW). It sounded fabulous to my young ears and I tried to track the album down here which in those days was close to impossible.
You never mention FM radio, where Moby Grape got much play, including live and bootleg play. I taped Dark Magic off of KSAN San Francisco
Just checked out the full performance of Sweet Ride... that's some wild psych! Thanks for tip, sir.
Matt. Great video and story. I had a similar show on Mark Skin Radio. Called Music From The Faultline. We put talked about SF bands history from the 60s on. We did a Moby Grape show too.
Great review, had this from new
The jam album was packaged along with WOW and was facing front side out so that’s all you saw was Grape Jam and thee WOW album was just a pic of the grapes no logo.
I couldn’t play the 78 speed track for years as my turntable at the time only had 33 & 45 rpm 🤠
Another great job on band reviews, Matt! A lot of fascinating details about a band I knew very little about, although I’ve had their first album for some years now - the whole thing is great! I’m looking forward to your part two of this series… Maybe you already had it in mind, but could you at least mention Skip Spence’s solo album “Oar” (I have that one also - with the extra cuts on it) - or maybe do that as a separate review?
Yes, I will be going into the Oar album in part two.
Loved Moby Grape. My high school band opened with Omaha in the late sixties.
Thanks Matt,
They were a great band and that first album is wonderful. I like everything about it. They had the songs, the musicianship and the sound.
I agree with you about that second album, there are some fantastic songs on it that I love. Where can I find the original versions that you played that ended up on the second album?
That ex-manager would become a curse for the band in the future - that is a sad story in itself.
Looking forward to part two.
Great work!
Cheers.
Alternate versions can be found on the cd Vintage and on the cd/lp The Place and the Time. Thanks for the comments, Ed!
Hi Matt.
Nice Part 1.
I didn't know that Matthew Katz was their original manager & that they appeared at Monterey.
I was aware of the party that took place to introduce them & the 1st LP & the release of the 5 singles at the same time.
Didn't know the 1st 2 LPs did well enough on the charts.
Looking forward to Part 2.
Keep putting out these excellent band histories videos.
Take Care
Thank you, Richard!
I grew up listening. Bob moseley was a fantastic bass player and singer who influenced me to play bass.
After you finish the Moby grape series you should do one for the band they made some really neat stuff
well done sir! well conceived, well executed. loved loved loved their first album and the second, not quite as much, but millers blues, unforgettable!...amazing to hear the demo tracks you dug up that sound far superior to what was released. so many missteps in hindsight...that katz character was a serious a**hole. heard Andy Summers of the Police for one, express his love of the first album. they really were musicians musicians, songwriters songwriters. looking forward but not really to the sad second half
Part 2 should be out in a couple of days so stay tuned!
Matthew Katz was the bane of musicians he managed.
RipOff artist stole everything