Don't know if you'll see this a year later. but I received this today and was very surprised and delighted. This will sit right next to Endeavor:Age of sail. Thanks to both of you!! I'm sure my game group will love this. if you're ever in the Boston area... Metrowest Board Games and Beer.. meetup. Thanks again. 😁
Hello, Thanks for this great video and review. I am glad that you enjoy the game and get the essence of it. I just need to point an error at 24:40 during the selling of goods for viewers using your video to learn the game. Goods on ships are sold by ship's speed. So fastest ships are unloaded first, and at even speed by players' initiative. Each player unloads one ship at a time so if he has several ships with the same speed he will unload one of his choice and a second one after every other player unload one of this speed. You may look at the example of unloading at page 11 of the rulebook. Also, in the 2-players games the phase A cards of the bot-player or not reshuffle, each are been used once during a game. Phase C cards are reshuffle. Nevertheless thanks again for this great video and for your interest in East India Companies. Best regards, Pascal Ribrault Author of the game.
Thanks for the clarifications! I caught the reshuffling of the Phase A cards at some point in the playthrough. And totally right about the fastest ship sell priority. Great game!
... but what about 'my lil' Everdell'... (Just got it and our kids LOVE it) 😃 This looks so interesting but I'm so bad at economic games... I guess we'll keep playing Jamaica... that has ships... and ocean 😂 and I actually may win one day hehe. Thank you for spending so much time on all your playthroughs!
Okay this didn't end up looking as boring as I thought but I'm still not sure it's a theme I need to explore. Have you played Prospectus? It's an economic game with a clever combination of theme and unique cube tower in the shape of a crystal ball. You are motivated to buy/sell potion ingredients based on crystal ball future prediction cards telling you what colored cubes (representing potion ingredients) will be dropped into the crystal ball tower at the end of the round AND whether the value of each ingredient will increase/decrease when they fall out of the tower that round. I just really like that integration of theme.
The actual game looks interesting, but it's impossible for me to get past the unspeakable evil of the actual East India Company. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they would name the game after a company built on slavery and genocide. I get that it's "just a game", but for god's sake, they seem completely oblivious here. What's next, a 1942 German train game?
From a history lover: I think people’s feelings about this have a lot more to do with how long ago it happened. WW2 evils are too close to us because our grandparents and great grandparents experienced it. But (for example) atrocities that the Vikings committed don’t seem to bother anyone. The word ‘slave’ originates with the Slavs from Eastern Germany/Poland that were kidnapped from their families and communities mostly by Vikings and sold to Egypt and the Middle East (Yes, white Slavs were sold to Africans, believe it or not). This was even more profitable than raiding monasteries and churches for the Vikings. However, no one has any problems with Viking games with plunder and war. As you mentioned, the East Indian company was basically running slavery operations globally in order to fund the British crown’s wars, etc. They also played dirty even with their competition, executing rivals, etc. But most of us don’t know anyone affected by them personally though, so this kind of game doesn’t bother us as much as it would contemporary victims. Is that wrong? I’m not sure. I am fairly aware of a lot of these atrocities, but for some reason I could play this game just like I play Viking games with pillaging, etc. I am not able to play the Nazi party in any game though (even games like Axis and Allies), probably because I’ve seen thousands of images and heard hundreds of stories of the atrocities they committed. And I’ve heard witness testimony of probably close to 100 Jewish people who experienced the horrors in the prison camps and death camps. I imagine I’d feel the same about this if I had heard from eyewitnesses and seen pictures of atrocities. But I think our ability to disconnect from reality a bit in war games, etc. isn’t such a bad thing. It’s the same instinct that makes us forget about the fact that we are going to eventually be on our deathbed someday. We psychologically are able to blind ourselves and have some fun. That doesn’t make us bad. It just makes us human. So, don’t feel guilty if you can enjoy this game. And maybe it will make someone more interested in studying about the real history of the East India Company. Many board games have sparked my interest in history. To each their own. Do you, but don’t judge those that feel differently too harshly. Happy gaming!
@@samiamagaimagain Very well stated sir. To be clear, my only complaint is with the publisher. They have every right to make the game they want and title it whatever they choose, but I just find the title questionable. At least here in the US, I don't think a lot of people know much at all about the East India Company, let alone the atrocities they were responsible for. So while I agree that the passage of time definitely dulls the impact, I think being un/misinformed is likely the bigger factor. And again, even if people are fully aware of the history, I'm not disparaging or judging them for playing/enjoying the game. I 100% agree that there is a vast difference and disconnect between playing a game and condoning/glorifying horrific actions. Your Vikings reference is valid, but I do see some pretty big differences. The EIC existed 600 or more years after the Vikings, so in theory, people were more "civilized" (though that is unfortunately debatable). "The Vikings" is also more of a generic (and modern) name for a somewhat loosely connected group of people, whereas The EIC is extremely specific. While the actions of Vikings were quite often atrocious, they were also very important as far as seafaring, exploration, etc. Of course that doesn't excuse the horrific behaviors, but there is a lot more to "Vikings" than just the raping and pillaging. The EIC however, really only existed to exploit people for profit and to support imperialistic actions by the Brits. Nobody I know hears "The East India Company" and thinks, "Sure, they did some bad stuff, but their contribution to logistics and supply chain management helped shape human history!". So again, I don't begrudge anyone for buying/playing/enjoying the game. It is just a game. I just take issue with the publisher's decision on the title. Making it more generic probably wouldn't have had the same draw/recognition, but it just seems like they could have found another way. Cheers...and happy holidays!!
@@michaelmueller260 I think we are mostly in agreement. I guess I could have talked about a number of different themes that I could see as potentially offensive: making and dropping atomic bombs, colonization, Imperial Rome, etc., I chose "Vikings" because that's the term used in the games, and I have never heard it being remotely controversial despite the obvious horrors the Scandinavians referred to as Vikings committed in numerous civilizations through a period of 300 plus years. It's definitely a more loosely tied together group than the EIC, but it does refer fairly specifically to the Danish, Swedish and Norwegian mostly state-sponsored seafaring armies from the 8th to 11th century. It's more specific than a term like "colonizer", but arguably less specific than EIC. They did complete some amazing feats (like cross the Atlantic or venture down to Constantinople using river hopping) but so did the Nazis. Vikings also sold their own farmers into slavery before focusing on selling other peoples into slavery, tortured victims for sport, and arguably engaged in genecide at times (like in Ireland). However, I've never even heard of someone having a problem with playing a Viking game about war, plundering, and trade. For the Northerners refered to as Vikings, war sometimes meant killing women, children and elderly, plundering meant taking even food from the starving in essence sentencing a population to death, and trade meant slave trade, which was by far the most lucrative trade for the Vikings. This usually meant becoming a sex slave for more attractive women. That's the reason they were so feared. That's one reason they are so talked about even today. So, I think we could argue about whether or not they were equally as terrible as the EIC. My main point was that if they existed 50 years ago, people would no doubt protest. But ignorance is bliss and time heals all wounds and maybe there's a good reason why that is. I think we agree on all that, but perhaps our opinions differ here: I think it's the same for the publishers as it is for the rest of us. Just like designers and publishers that put out Viking games, they aren't doing it to support oppressors. They're just picking something from history that seems interesting. I understand your discomfort with the theme completely, but I think I'd actually just prefer them to devote one page of the rulebook to real history to spark this kind of debate/conversation at more tables, and hopefully spark more interest in history as well. But I definitely wouldn't call you out if you said you'd prefer to play a different game at my table. I'd just suggest one of my favorites like Feast for Odin, Bloodrage, or Raiders of the North Sea. 😉
@@samiamagaimagain We aren't far off in our views at all, and honestly it boils down to personal feelings about historical groups/events that determines our comfort level with these themes. I'm sure my level of distaste for the EIC in particular is due to having fairly recently watched and read about them, bumping them up my personal awareness track. I think part of it is that when I play games like Feast for Odin, Raiders of the North Sea (both of which I love), Bloodrage (which for some reason I loathe), and other games of that ilk is that they almost feel like fantasy games (and several are, in that they include monsters and such). That era seems dramatically different than the time of the EIC to me. Maybe I scribble a blurry gray line somewhere around the supposed "age of enlightenment" in Europe...though that is an iffy distinction at best. I 100% agree that a little historical info in the rulebook would go a long way. Maybe they do have something in there, but in the couple of reviews/playthroughs I've seen, nobody has mentioned it. I also agree that the amount of time elapsed very much matters to how we feel about these topics. It's extremely rare for me to have an issue with a theme or title. I can only think of 2 other cases. The first was a game about dogsledding, and being a bit of an animal rights activist, that caused an initial negative reaction. After looking deeper, they had a great writeup in the rules regarding the abuse that occurs in the industry, and actually were donating part of the proceeds to a sled dog charity. So I went from cringing at first to being very much impressed lol. The other was Union Stockyards...which also had a small blurb about the horrific treatment and murders of immigrants, but for me, nowhere near enough to justify the theme. That one you actually play as Philip Armour and others like him that literally paid for the murders of immigrants and others that dared to speak up about the barbaric conditions they were forced to live in. One of the actions in the game is to quash the workers trying to organize for crying out loud. Sorry for going a bit off topic there, I just don't want to come across as someone that is easily offended or looks to call people out...I'm definitely not that guy! I don't think our opinions are that far off at all, the EIC just happened to be fresh in my mind at the time this game started showing up. I suspect if this was 6 months ago, I wouldn't even have given it a second thought. Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss! Take care my friend, and have a wonderful holiday season and new year!
@@michaelmueller260 Thanks for a great conversation! I feel like we are super similar after all. I also hate Bloodrage (it was the only other Viking themed game I could think of 😅). Yeah, Union Stockyards seems like a game I would feel uncomfortable with too. I actually I actually haven't heard of it. The game that bothered me the most was Manhattan Project, mostly because I live in Japan and have seen and read a lot about the horrors Atomic bomb survivors suffered here. But no one I've talked to outside Japan can relate. They usually just mention that the Japanese military committed atrocities in China or that they got what they deserved because they didn't surrender: things that the infants and children who were literally melted alive had no control over. But I understand because I would've probably saud the same things if I hadn't been so exposed to the details. I just wish that the publishers had mentioned something in the rulebook, but I have to remind myself that they are probably as unaware or distant enough from the events that they don't even think about it. It all has to do with proximity, I guess: both time and space, and how much we've invested in this history. It really is an important thing, isn't it: learning about history? It shapes our views of the world. Thanks for a great conversation! Happy holidays to you too!
Don't know if you'll see this a year later. but I received this today and was very surprised and delighted. This will sit right next to Endeavor:Age of sail. Thanks to both of you!! I'm sure my game group will love this. if you're ever in the Boston area... Metrowest Board Games and Beer.. meetup. Thanks again. 😁
Awesome thanks!
Thanks for putting this out. I've had my eye on this for month or two and have been anxiously waiting an English video of it.
Hope you enjoy! Thanks!
Well done both! Nicely explained :D Thanks a lot!
Hello,
Thanks for this great video and review.
I am glad that you enjoy the game and get the essence of it.
I just need to point an error at 24:40 during the selling of goods for viewers using your video to learn the game.
Goods on ships are sold by ship's speed. So fastest ships are unloaded first, and at even speed by players' initiative. Each player unloads one ship at a time so if he has several ships with the same speed he will unload one of his choice and a second one after every other player unload one of this speed. You may look at the example of unloading at page 11 of the rulebook.
Also, in the 2-players games the phase A cards of the bot-player or not reshuffle, each are been used once during a game. Phase C cards are reshuffle.
Nevertheless thanks again for this great video and for your interest in East India Companies.
Best regards,
Pascal Ribrault
Author of the game.
Thanks for the clarifications! I caught the reshuffling of the Phase A cards at some point in the playthrough. And totally right about the fastest ship sell priority. Great game!
Same designer as virtu so I've had my eye on this ! Thanks for the video and so early too
Thanks for watching!
Many thanks for the info on this game. I just got it myself.
Great review! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Can’t wait to play the production version of this game.
Thanks Paul!
Excellent game for four players
Kinda bold to release this in the same year as John Company 2
... but what about 'my lil' Everdell'... (Just got it and our kids LOVE it) 😃
This looks so interesting but I'm so bad at economic games... I guess we'll keep playing Jamaica... that has ships... and ocean 😂 and I actually may win one day hehe.
Thank you for spending so much time on all your playthroughs!
We have to try Jamaica as we’ve been hearing a lot about it.
@@AntLabGames it's so fun, a nice little gateway. I hope you can try it out (I don't know when you'll have time) :)
Very few 18xx games are recommended at 2.
18CZ is one of them.
So true!
Great game, thanks for the run through! Have you played Black Beard The Golden Age?
We have it but will look into it.
@@AntLabGames It's a complex game, but would like to see your solo playthrough of it.
Take my coin! If I only could find it in a store!
Should be available now or real soon.
Okay this didn't end up looking as boring as I thought but I'm still not sure it's a theme I need to explore. Have you played Prospectus? It's an economic game with a clever combination of theme and unique cube tower in the shape of a crystal ball. You are motivated to buy/sell potion ingredients based on crystal ball future prediction cards telling you what colored cubes (representing potion ingredients) will be dropped into the crystal ball tower at the end of the round AND whether the value of each ingredient will increase/decrease when they fall out of the tower that round. I just really like that integration of theme.
We have not played this but it sounds interesting.
Where can you get this game?
We got it at PAXU. I think it hits retail any day now.
The actual game looks interesting, but it's impossible for me to get past the unspeakable evil of the actual East India Company. For the life of me, I can't imagine why they would name the game after a company built on slavery and genocide. I get that it's "just a game", but for god's sake, they seem completely oblivious here. What's next, a 1942 German train game?
From a history lover: I think people’s feelings about this have a lot more to do with how long ago it happened. WW2 evils are too close to us because our grandparents and great grandparents experienced it.
But (for example) atrocities that the Vikings committed don’t seem to bother anyone. The word ‘slave’ originates with the Slavs from Eastern Germany/Poland that were kidnapped from their families and communities mostly by Vikings and sold to Egypt and the Middle East (Yes, white Slavs were sold to Africans, believe it or not). This was even more profitable than raiding monasteries and churches for the Vikings. However, no one has any problems with Viking games with plunder and war.
As you mentioned, the East Indian company was basically running slavery operations globally in order to fund the British crown’s wars, etc. They also played dirty even with their competition, executing rivals, etc. But most of us don’t know anyone affected by them personally though, so this kind of game doesn’t bother us as much as it would contemporary victims. Is that wrong? I’m not sure. I am fairly aware of a lot of these atrocities, but for some reason I could play this game just like I play Viking games with pillaging, etc.
I am not able to play the Nazi party in any game though (even games like Axis and Allies), probably because I’ve seen thousands of images and heard hundreds of stories of the atrocities they committed. And I’ve heard witness testimony of probably close to 100 Jewish people who experienced the horrors in the prison camps and death camps. I imagine I’d feel the same about this if I had heard from eyewitnesses and seen pictures of atrocities.
But I think our ability to disconnect from reality a bit in war games, etc. isn’t such a bad thing. It’s the same instinct that makes us forget about the fact that we are going to eventually be on our deathbed someday. We psychologically are able to blind ourselves and have some fun. That doesn’t make us bad. It just makes us human.
So, don’t feel guilty if you can enjoy this game. And maybe it will make someone more interested in studying about the real history of the East India Company. Many board games have sparked my interest in history. To each their own. Do you, but don’t judge those that feel differently too harshly. Happy gaming!
@@samiamagaimagain Very well stated sir. To be clear, my only complaint is with the publisher. They have every right to make the game they want and title it whatever they choose, but I just find the title questionable.
At least here in the US, I don't think a lot of people know much at all about the East India Company, let alone the atrocities they were responsible for. So while I agree that the passage of time definitely dulls the impact, I think being un/misinformed is likely the bigger factor. And again, even if people are fully aware of the history, I'm not disparaging or judging them for playing/enjoying the game. I 100% agree that there is a vast difference and disconnect between playing a game and condoning/glorifying horrific actions.
Your Vikings reference is valid, but I do see some pretty big differences. The EIC existed 600 or more years after the Vikings, so in theory, people were more "civilized" (though that is unfortunately debatable). "The Vikings" is also more of a generic (and modern) name for a somewhat loosely connected group of people, whereas The EIC is extremely specific. While the actions of Vikings were quite often atrocious, they were also very important as far as seafaring, exploration, etc. Of course that doesn't excuse the horrific behaviors, but there is a lot more to "Vikings" than just the raping and pillaging. The EIC however, really only existed to exploit people for profit and to support imperialistic actions by the Brits. Nobody I know hears "The East India Company" and thinks, "Sure, they did some bad stuff, but their contribution to logistics and supply chain management helped shape human history!".
So again, I don't begrudge anyone for buying/playing/enjoying the game. It is just a game. I just take issue with the publisher's decision on the title. Making it more generic probably wouldn't have had the same draw/recognition, but it just seems like they could have found another way.
Cheers...and happy holidays!!
@@michaelmueller260 I think we are mostly in agreement.
I guess I could have talked about a number of different themes that I could see as potentially offensive: making and dropping atomic bombs, colonization, Imperial Rome, etc., I chose "Vikings" because that's the term used in the games, and I have never heard it being remotely controversial despite the obvious horrors the Scandinavians referred to as Vikings committed in numerous civilizations through a period of 300 plus years.
It's definitely a more loosely tied together group than the EIC, but it does refer fairly specifically to the Danish, Swedish and Norwegian mostly state-sponsored seafaring armies from the 8th to 11th century. It's more specific than a term like "colonizer", but arguably less specific than EIC. They did complete some amazing feats (like cross the Atlantic or venture down to Constantinople using river hopping) but so did the Nazis.
Vikings also sold their own farmers into slavery before focusing on selling other peoples into slavery, tortured victims for sport, and arguably engaged in genecide at times (like in Ireland). However, I've never even heard of someone having a problem with playing a Viking game about war, plundering, and trade. For the Northerners refered to as Vikings, war sometimes meant killing women, children and elderly, plundering meant taking even food from the starving in essence sentencing a population to death, and trade meant slave trade, which was by far the most lucrative trade for the Vikings. This usually meant becoming a sex slave for more attractive women. That's the reason they were so feared. That's one reason they are so talked about even today. So, I think we could argue about whether or not they were equally as terrible as the EIC.
My main point was that if they existed 50 years ago, people would no doubt protest. But ignorance is bliss and time heals all wounds and maybe there's a good reason why that is.
I think we agree on all that, but perhaps our opinions differ here: I think it's the same for the publishers as it is for the rest of us. Just like designers and publishers that put out Viking games, they aren't doing it to support oppressors. They're just picking something from history that seems interesting. I understand your discomfort with the theme completely, but I think I'd actually just prefer them to devote one page of the rulebook to real history to spark this kind of debate/conversation at more tables, and hopefully spark more interest in history as well. But I definitely wouldn't call you out if you said you'd prefer to play a different game at my table. I'd just suggest one of my favorites like Feast for Odin, Bloodrage, or Raiders of the North Sea. 😉
@@samiamagaimagain We aren't far off in our views at all, and honestly it boils down to personal feelings about historical groups/events that determines our comfort level with these themes. I'm sure my level of distaste for the EIC in particular is due to having fairly recently watched and read about them, bumping them up my personal awareness track. I think part of it is that when I play games like Feast for Odin, Raiders of the North Sea (both of which I love), Bloodrage (which for some reason I loathe), and other games of that ilk is that they almost feel like fantasy games (and several are, in that they include monsters and such). That era seems dramatically different than the time of the EIC to me. Maybe I scribble a blurry gray line somewhere around the supposed "age of enlightenment" in Europe...though that is an iffy distinction at best.
I 100% agree that a little historical info in the rulebook would go a long way. Maybe they do have something in there, but in the couple of reviews/playthroughs I've seen, nobody has mentioned it. I also agree that the amount of time elapsed very much matters to how we feel about these topics.
It's extremely rare for me to have an issue with a theme or title. I can only think of 2 other cases. The first was a game about dogsledding, and being a bit of an animal rights activist, that caused an initial negative reaction. After looking deeper, they had a great writeup in the rules regarding the abuse that occurs in the industry, and actually were donating part of the proceeds to a sled dog charity. So I went from cringing at first to being very much impressed lol. The other was Union Stockyards...which also had a small blurb about the horrific treatment and murders of immigrants, but for me, nowhere near enough to justify the theme. That one you actually play as Philip Armour and others like him that literally paid for the murders of immigrants and others that dared to speak up about the barbaric conditions they were forced to live in. One of the actions in the game is to quash the workers trying to organize for crying out loud. Sorry for going a bit off topic there, I just don't want to come across as someone that is easily offended or looks to call people out...I'm definitely not that guy!
I don't think our opinions are that far off at all, the EIC just happened to be fresh in my mind at the time this game started showing up. I suspect if this was 6 months ago, I wouldn't even have given it a second thought. Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss!
Take care my friend, and have a wonderful holiday season and new year!
@@michaelmueller260 Thanks for a great conversation! I feel like we are super similar after all. I also hate Bloodrage (it was the only other Viking themed game I could think of 😅). Yeah, Union Stockyards seems like a game I would feel uncomfortable with too. I actually I actually haven't heard of it.
The game that bothered me the most was Manhattan Project, mostly because I live in Japan and have seen and read a lot about the horrors Atomic bomb survivors suffered here. But no one I've talked to outside Japan can relate. They usually just mention that the Japanese military committed atrocities in China or that they got what they deserved because they didn't surrender: things that the infants and children who were literally melted alive had no control over. But I understand because I would've probably saud the same things if I hadn't been so exposed to the details. I just wish that the publishers had mentioned something in the rulebook, but I have to remind myself that they are probably as unaware or distant enough from the events that they don't even think about it.
It all has to do with proximity, I guess: both time and space, and how much we've invested in this history. It really is an important thing, isn't it: learning about history? It shapes our views of the world.
Thanks for a great conversation! Happy holidays to you too!