4:08 This is one of the pillars of purity culture: Women and girl's safety and security is subordinated to men's convenience (i.e. they don't have to put in the work to develop self-control), whether consciously or unconsciously.
I think purity culture has to do more with child abuse. They teach that girls have to cover their Bodies. because men are so Hypersexual that when they see a girl, they can't control themselves. This idea is weaponized against both boys and girls. Because when a boy tells people about his abuse. Most of the time, people say people say boys are hyper. Sexual, he probably imagined And if not boys like sex anyways, so what does it hurt? On the other hand when a girl gets abused, they can say she must have not been dressing modest enough. So maybe she learned a lesson. I really don't think it's about persecuting men or women. I think it's about shaming children so they won't tell anybody about their abuse.
It's so great that these women have found each other. As a pastor's wife myself, I have found other pastors' wives to be sources of hurt within my church and within my denomination. I appreciate their words of encouragement. That being said.... their language and stories make it clear that they are in churches/denominations that get the "two for one deal". I tried to be the perfect youth pastor's wife and build my own career for a long time. It's SO HARD with so little support. We finally found a denomination that not only accepts pastor's wives to have their own calling/career, but encourages it. We also had to find our own boundaries. God called me to pediatric speech/language pathology and called my husband to full time ministry. I support him and he supports me and together we raised two amazing PKs who are now young adults and are both serving the Lord.
My husband was a pastor for many years. Getting away is sometimes is the only way to get away. However, we did not have the money to do that. Now my son is a lay person in his church. He feels one of his ministries is to provide get- aways for his pastor and his wife. They appreciate it so much.
Thank you for this comment! I know Sheila was just trying to commiserate, but she forgot the privilege that she had that most pastors and families do not.
I’m going to push back here some…it wasn’t until I started attending a mainline church that I encountered pastoral families who weren’t unpaid staff of the church. Pastors’ spouses shouldn’t be doing more at church than other adult volunteers. Kids should not be pressed into providing childcare!!!
yea, many churches don't train the pastor's wives and they end up being like any other volunteer. I think if they do couples counseling you need to get certified in that on some level and not just use your marriage to someone with a theology degree as your license.
agree, the partner is their own person, and can contribute and be as any person in the church. Anything they do should be from their own gifting and where relevant - training. and PKs face a pressure too, but I think in UK/mainstream churches this is less of an issue these days, and the vicar's husband challenged the 'vicar's wife' expectations. In training for ministry there is also a healthier balance about home life compared to a couple of generations ago when the minister was expected to put the church folk first always. My BiL is PK (or in our lingo a son of the manse) and always felt family was the last to get a share of his dad's time and attention, and that has been very damaging. And as a church minister - I don't find myself talking about marriage and relationships much, Jesus answers 2 questions that designed to trip him up. And then it is a few bits of the epistles. Far more likely to be dealing with issues of justice and valuing others, hey more about money than marriage and childrearing. So from my context the idea that the church pastor and wife would be doing marriage counselling is bizarre (unless they are licenced therapists). We would listen as a supportive and caring place, but refer any thing that is 'proper counselling'.
@@lisajohnson4744 If the culture of the church is to expect it then it can be a painful time asserting something different. In my denomination we are appointed for 5 yr initial allocation, but when your church can vote you out of a job and home, a family new to the pastorate can feel it is a risk to challenge those views.
Oh yes they made us swim laps in culottes and a sweatshirt. I was drowning if it wasn’t for my sister. Omg I remember the Oreo analogies given a youth teaching in IFB.
These women spoke a few times about counseling. Are they certified counselors? Therapists? LCSWs? The contraindications in this episode were disheartening. I also agree with a previous commenter about children not being forced to provide childcare under the guise of being part of the "ministry." We are setting them (in this example, daughters) up to accept their role in unpaid labor so that ministry can happen.
It can be hard being a pastors wife with friendship. You love and invest in the women in the church, and in a second, you can be turned on. You have to be genuine. I have learned you can not please everyone. I have learned not to worry about what people think of my daughter....i need to parent her the way God is leading me to parent her. Not because she is a " PK" but because we are Christians and are modeling to her the love of Jesus. I am learning that people expect your family to be perfect, and we aren't.... and its ok if we don't live up to everyone's expectations. We are in this for God. We are sinners saved by grace.
In most cases, you do take all those people along to the marital bed. The oreo cookie is also a really good analogy for disease and DNA transfer. There is a growing body of evidence that the DNA from previous partners can remain in a female's body to affect her later offspring. A scientifically founded reason for the lesson, weirdly. I'm listening to a lot of your podcasts and have got a lot out of them, but have also noticed a thread of, might I say, "baby out with the bath water"?
4:08 This is one of the pillars of purity culture: Women and girl's safety and security is subordinated to men's convenience (i.e. they don't have to put in the work to develop self-control), whether consciously or unconsciously.
I think purity culture has to do more with child abuse. They teach that girls have to cover their Bodies. because men are so Hypersexual that when they see a girl, they can't control themselves. This idea is weaponized against both boys and girls. Because when a boy tells people about his abuse. Most of the time, people say people say boys are hyper. Sexual, he probably imagined And if not boys like sex anyways, so what does it hurt? On the other hand when a girl gets abused, they can say she must have not been dressing modest enough. So maybe she learned a lesson. I really don't think it's about persecuting men or women. I think it's about shaming children so they won't tell anybody about their abuse.
It's so great that these women have found each other. As a pastor's wife myself, I have found other pastors' wives to be sources of hurt within my church and within my denomination. I appreciate their words of encouragement. That being said.... their language and stories make it clear that they are in churches/denominations that get the "two for one deal". I tried to be the perfect youth pastor's wife and build my own career for a long time. It's SO HARD with so little support. We finally found a denomination that not only accepts pastor's wives to have their own calling/career, but encourages it. We also had to find our own boundaries. God called me to pediatric speech/language pathology and called my husband to full time ministry. I support him and he supports me and together we raised two amazing PKs who are now young adults and are both serving the Lord.
My husband was a pastor for many years. Getting away is sometimes is the only way to get away. However, we did not have the money to do that. Now my son is a lay person in his church. He feels one of his ministries is to provide get- aways for his pastor and his wife. They appreciate it so much.
Thank you for this comment! I know Sheila was just trying to commiserate, but she forgot the privilege that she had that most pastors and families do not.
Love that will say 'lets go home' to kids and so they know you put them before the image.
Thank you so much for creating this episode! As a pastor's wife myself, I feel so heard.
I’m going to push back here some…it wasn’t until I started attending a mainline church that I encountered pastoral families who weren’t unpaid staff of the church. Pastors’ spouses shouldn’t be doing more at church than other adult volunteers. Kids should not be pressed into providing childcare!!!
yea, many churches don't train the pastor's wives and they end up being like any other volunteer. I think if they do couples counseling you need to get certified in that on some level and not just use your marriage to someone with a theology degree as your license.
agree, the partner is their own person, and can contribute and be as any person in the church. Anything they do should be from their own gifting and where relevant - training.
and PKs face a pressure too, but I think in UK/mainstream churches this is less of an issue these days, and the vicar's husband challenged the 'vicar's wife' expectations. In training for ministry there is also a healthier balance about home life compared to a couple of generations ago when the minister was expected to put the church folk first always. My BiL is PK (or in our lingo a son of the manse) and always felt family was the last to get a share of his dad's time and attention, and that has been very damaging.
And as a church minister - I don't find myself talking about marriage and relationships much, Jesus answers 2 questions that designed to trip him up. And then it is a few bits of the epistles. Far more likely to be dealing with issues of justice and valuing others, hey more about money than marriage and childrearing. So from my context the idea that the church pastor and wife would be doing marriage counselling is bizarre (unless they are licenced therapists). We would listen as a supportive and caring place, but refer any thing that is 'proper counselling'.
That’s on papa. (Or mama, if she’s the pastor.) I honestly think that if the pastor-parent says no to that, it wouldn’t happen.
I would never talk about my problems in front of someone else’s kids. They remember more than we think.
@@lisajohnson4744 If the culture of the church is to expect it then it can be a painful time asserting something different. In my denomination we are appointed for 5 yr initial allocation, but when your church can vote you out of a job and home, a family new to the pastorate can feel it is a risk to challenge those views.
Oh yes they made us swim laps in culottes and a sweatshirt. I was drowning if it wasn’t for my sister. Omg I remember the Oreo analogies given a youth teaching in IFB.
These women spoke a few times about counseling. Are they certified counselors? Therapists? LCSWs?
The contraindications in this episode were disheartening. I also agree with a previous commenter about children not being forced to provide childcare under the guise of being part of the "ministry."
We are setting them (in this example, daughters) up to accept their role in unpaid labor so that ministry can happen.
It can be hard being a pastors wife with friendship. You love and invest in the women in the church, and in a second, you can be turned on. You have to be genuine. I have learned you can not please everyone. I have learned not to worry about what people think of my daughter....i need to parent her the way God is leading me to parent her. Not because she is a " PK" but because we are Christians and are modeling to her the love of Jesus. I am learning that people expect your family to be perfect, and we aren't.... and its ok if we don't live up to everyone's expectations. We are in this for God. We are sinners saved by grace.
In most cases, you do take all those people along to the marital bed. The oreo cookie is also a really good analogy for disease and DNA transfer. There is a growing body of evidence that the DNA from previous partners can remain in a female's body to affect her later offspring. A scientifically founded reason for the lesson, weirdly.
I'm listening to a lot of your podcasts and have got a lot out of them, but have also noticed a thread of, might I say, "baby out with the bath water"?
Those aren't coulots, those are gauchos.