6:10 and today's 3.8.1 Patch Notes: smoke Mine now has a 0.15 second delay before it can be thrown again to prevent accidentally throwing multiple in a row when you have very high mine throwing speed..
Im a big fan of the saboteur ascendency, so I was super stocked for mine rework. But damn it feels even clunkier than before for me, and I'm probably gonna have to respec this character into traps. Love Pyroclast tho, its so overkill on everthing that it can probably do Uber Elders per second
what exactly makes them feel clunkier to you? just curious what ur opinion is on it. they seem to arm faster than before (unless used tremor rod), u have hell of mine throw speed compared to before thus better clear speed, and for bossing wise u do lose dmg if u detonate them before u get somewhat of a chain going, but if like me and use tremor rod u always have max mines out for full chain dmg bonus. losing the 10% regen is the downside to me but im a fan of the overhaul
@@bigups2729 They require too much effort to use efficiently compared to how they worked previously while also being not that much better, even worse in something
@@bigups2729 traps and mines have always been burst machines, and they still are here, so forcing you to make chains to get value is kind of useless since T15 bosses are dead after the 6th mine. They used to overkill anything but now its even worse. On top of that chains like to break for no reason sometimes. Ive played summoner too this league and there they exactly nailed the issue before aka the pet AI, but they didnt really change the strength or weaknesses of the mine archetype. Just now theres an extra mechanic that doesnt add much. Oh and please remove detonate cooldown, when you can tbrow mines fast enough its annoying af
@@bodhisattva6805 I'm not sure if i agree with it being worse in something unless ur talking about a point im missing. I am still able to clear my screen in 2 mine throws for clear speed and able to kill juiced up t16 map bosses in 3 seconds or less on a 5 link. I'm waiting on next patch to run my t15 blighted maps for rewards buff, cause my miner right now absolutely destroys blighted maps, to the point to where i almost dont even have to build towers
I find the detonation sequence mechanic to be weird and annoying. GGG reworked mines specifically to make them less clunky, but they are still clunky, just in different ways.
If we're thinking about theoretical vs actual damage, the calculations assume all projectiles are hitting the same target simultaneously. Realistically, only a certain percentage of the projectiles will hit enemies, and this especially applies to single target dps. The build has A TON of damage, I'm not disputing that, but it's also good to be cognizant that Ziggy's calculation stating 27 Shaper's-worth of damage per sequence is reflective of theoretical damage output (likely impossible too), but really should be taken further to express the numbers as a function of projectile coverage. The calculations are not really indicative of true damage output. For single target you'd have to estimate how many projectiles will hit that enemy in order to compare it to Shaper's health, and for aoe damage, who's counting since one or two projectiles is enough to one shot a mob anyways.
so with mines, when they detonate, is that mana spent? do you need to regenerate or leech or pot that mana back up or does it just unreserve it and the mana is not actually ever spent or goes down??
Is that PoB link correct? Doesn't seem to work for me. Also, a hybrid flask would probably cover your mana needs just as well, while also granting you a secondary life flask. They can also roll the new mana flask mods, such as Enduring.
From my experience with skitter bois it seems like they don't start a detonation sequence until an enemy is target-able "and not phased or in other animations" so why not use them for bosses just to get perfect detonation timing?.
Equipped the gloomfang, and sure it somehow made it feel better in damaging both mobs and boss. What allocation would you prefer for the amulet? ALso, why did the chaos make the damage feel OP? couldnt figure out why beyond the maths
@@sarvashaktimaan7106 You're probably right, it's a complex game and I might have overlooked something. Can you elaborate? In what way would it break the game?
@@Takeal86 Why would you be able to have multiple different healing potions running at the same time? Does it work like that for mana potions currently? I assumed the strongest would push the rest off, and chugging more would just add duration.
I played one till 90 and my Carpal tunnel is unbearble afterwards and re roll summer... skip it also traps is actually better.. bursting and doing blight defence.
@@tarryngregory8644 ok thank u I will retry...I am familiar with POB but when I plugged the code in, it did not show gems or items for this build, just path of tree
Only really helps (healthwise, and even there just barely) with long bossfights that use up multiple mine sequences. You don't need to spam Detonate anymore. Just drop a bunch of mines, hit detonate and continue spamming mines. The sequence will continue on its own, no totem required. In effect, laying down the totem is similar to hitting Detonate now, but slower and with far less player control (see above responses for why that matters).
Shame about all the jank happening, seems to be a running theme for a lot of things going on in this game the past couple leagues. Hopefully GGG can slow down and figure their stuff out a bit more often.
I'm a lvl 96.5 miner, and I find it effortless. All I have to do is spam Q and W (drop/detonate). Everything, including guardians, dies instantly. I occasionally tap E or Oak flask for Vaal Grace/Penortration, but that's about it. Perhaps you're doing it wrong? 9 Power orb dual Void Batteries FTW.
Honestly, I don't think it's that clunky once you get used to it. It's all about sequences and where is your cursor when you detonate. The damage is the highest burst I've seen on a cheap build (special mention to Pyroclast Mine, WTF is this boss damage ??).
Man, I love destroying my hands for effectiveness! Gotta try this out too! Those easy click and kill builds are not engaging enough anyways, I need to feel like operating a super computer while playing a game yeah! (jk, but I do like that kind of playstyles)
a few things: Why not use Flesh and Stone to be a gimped Saboteur ? xD no really, blinding everyone near you and getting reduced dmg from enemys not near you is sooo strong with acrobatics. I happend to find "The Doctor" card and now have around 7 EX starting currency, is there some specific chest i should aim for or simply go with a Loreweave/OP Rare ?
I was leveling a consuming Dark Pyroclast Miner in Hardcore before I ripped in act 7. Was so much fun. Im currently leveling another one in softcore but trying out a different approach with the unique highborn staff which has a name but I'm just forgetting
I tried pyroclast, I couldn't get behind the slow clearing speeds, how are you handling that? I was considering burning with prolif but never got around to it, just switched to icicle cause it felt a bit better.
@@yayayaya931 GMP handles it pretty well actually. It starts your inital chain off at a higher count and they spread out decently well once it stacks. It about doubles the area after 12-15 in a sequence. Could also do inc aoe/conc effect for clear/bosses.
Great video Ziggy, but can you call this a "build guide" when you barely touch over your own gear, and dont talk about your passive tree at all? If anything it seems more like a review than a guide
Your math is obviously wrong af. You were counting that if all your projectiles hit and can chain the max times per second. But u won't be hitting so many targets and chaining the max times most the time. So that math is just a trash boast.
Who in the world counting DPS on multiple targets? Is it fair to say that flameblast have 200 mil dps, because there were happenned 1k mobs in blast radius? Nobody ever count dps that way, it always on single target only. I get it that it is a joke, but still... joke still need to be somehow based on reality to be funny.
@@zozokaa i said that joke need to be somewhat consistent with reality, or else it's not funny, and therefore isn't a joke. tl;dr - that joke is awful, and not qualified to be called that way.
That Ziggy math killed me 😂😂
"E-peen DPS math" and this is why we love you Ziggy!
6:10 and today's 3.8.1 Patch Notes: smoke Mine now has a 0.15 second delay before it can be thrown again to prevent accidentally throwing multiple in a row when you have very high mine throwing speed..
Im a big fan of the saboteur ascendency, so I was super stocked for mine rework. But damn it feels even clunkier than before for me, and I'm probably gonna have to respec this character into traps. Love Pyroclast tho, its so overkill on everthing that it can probably do Uber Elders per second
Funny thing is, GGG wrote in mine balance manifesto that they're rebalancing them because they were clunky
what exactly makes them feel clunkier to you? just curious what ur opinion is on it. they seem to arm faster than before (unless used tremor rod), u have hell of mine throw speed compared to before thus better clear speed, and for bossing wise u do lose dmg if u detonate them before u get somewhat of a chain going, but if like me and use tremor rod u always have max mines out for full chain dmg bonus. losing the 10% regen is the downside to me but im a fan of the overhaul
@@bigups2729 They require too much effort to use efficiently compared to how they worked previously while also being not that much better, even worse in something
@@bigups2729 traps and mines have always been burst machines, and they still are here, so forcing you to make chains to get value is kind of useless since T15 bosses are dead after the 6th mine. They used to overkill anything but now its even worse. On top of that chains like to break for no reason sometimes. Ive played summoner too this league and there they exactly nailed the issue before aka the pet AI, but they didnt really change the strength or weaknesses of the mine archetype. Just now theres an extra mechanic that doesnt add much.
Oh and please remove detonate cooldown, when you can tbrow mines fast enough its annoying af
@@bodhisattva6805 I'm not sure if i agree with it being worse in something unless ur talking about a point im missing. I am still able to clear my screen in 2 mine throws for clear speed and able to kill juiced up t16 map bosses in 3 seconds or less on a 5 link. I'm waiting on next patch to run my t15 blighted maps for rewards buff, cause my miner right now absolutely destroys blighted maps, to the point to where i almost dont even have to build towers
Skitterbots are breaking the sequence
I find the detonation sequence mechanic to be weird and annoying. GGG reworked mines specifically to make them less clunky, but they are still clunky, just in different ways.
Yeah...
But that dmg, wow
If we're thinking about theoretical vs actual damage, the calculations assume all projectiles are hitting the same target simultaneously. Realistically, only a certain percentage of the projectiles will hit enemies, and this especially applies to single target dps. The build has A TON of damage, I'm not disputing that, but it's also good to be cognizant that Ziggy's calculation stating 27 Shaper's-worth of damage per sequence is reflective of theoretical damage output (likely impossible too), but really should be taken further to express the numbers as a function of projectile coverage. The calculations are not really indicative of true damage output. For single target you'd have to estimate how many projectiles will hit that enemy in order to compare it to Shaper's health, and for aoe damage, who's counting since one or two projectiles is enough to one shot a mob anyways.
and that's why he said u only need 500 shapers on the screen...
so with mines, when they detonate, is that mana spent? do you need to regenerate or leech or pot that mana back up or does it just unreserve it and the mana is not actually ever spent or goes down??
Is that PoB link correct? Doesn't seem to work for me. Also, a hybrid flask would probably cover your mana needs just as well, while also granting you a secondary life flask. They can also roll the new mana flask mods, such as Enduring.
update PoB
Check PoB for updates and make sure you are highlight to copy the pastebin link and not some YT shortened URL
From my experience with skitter bois it seems like they don't start a detonation sequence until an enemy is target-able "and not phased or in other animations" so why not use them for bosses just to get perfect detonation timing?.
Equipped the gloomfang, and sure it somehow made it feel better in damaging both mobs and boss. What allocation would you prefer for the amulet? ALso, why did the chaos make the damage feel OP? couldnt figure out why beyond the maths
How much have you paid for this build?
Would sire of shards be a good staff for this? It has 4 additional projectiles?
work with 2 wand ?this staff is 1 mirror on poe trade...
What is a good ammy annoint for this build?
3:45 you need detonate mine totems with tremor rod. And it is so nice for arc mines. I am using arc mines but killing bosses is a bitch still.
I kinda wish more/all potions with duration worked like that.
That would literally break the game.
@@sarvashaktimaan7106 You're probably right, it's a complex game and I might have overlooked something. Can you elaborate? In what way would it break the game?
@@Takeal86 Why would you be able to have multiple different healing potions running at the same time? Does it work like that for mana potions currently? I assumed the strongest would push the rest off, and chugging more would just add duration.
Can i play this build in 3.9 to?
I love how now there are legit builds that can calculate dps in (shapers/second) its fucking crazy to think about
2:12 if all hit something... Take standard deviation in account and expect only a quarter of those projectiles if not less to hit enemies.
He does say that
Hes making fun of PoB warriors that check all the boxes to calculate that their build has an INSANE 50MILL SHAPER DAMAGE!!1!111!!
I imagine your glacial cascade mines work pretty well too. That would be fun to try again.
...Hi what are you using in the pantheon?
play mines, get carpal tunnel
have a wrriten guide and i cant find this kind of staffs
Um, Ziggy where is the build export?
What’s the ascendancy order?
Tailwind > chain > extra projectile
is this build useful now also? I'm really struggling with it right now
Is the POB link showing gems and items for you guys? thanks...
So, it ispossible to do Shaper with Icicle but it''s more efective to have an Ice spear setup?
not even close to impossible.
Bad single target dmg
@@exocataclysm8930 i killed uber elder on my first try with icicle mines, the damage is good.
@@danielnemeth515 can you pob your build?
@@exocataclysm8930 you can import my char: profile: Prophta char: badmood_prop (BSC)
I played one till 90 and my Carpal tunnel is unbearble afterwards and re roll summer... skip it also traps is actually better.. bursting and doing blight defence.
Whats the pros/cons between deadeye and saboteur? #ZiggyD
Saboteur survives better and has more utility, Deadeye is in most cases more DPS and always faster.
Since ranger doesn’t get icicle mines, do you need to ask someone to buy it for you?
Yeah, or mule it with another character. Easiest to trade one from someone else.
Roronoa Zoro Storm burst isn’t available for ranger start, is there anything they start with that you’d recommend
@@shang9917 You get Stormburst from Hillock with Shadow. Literally just a couple mins with another character to transfer it to your Ranger.
Roronoa Zoro When would you recommend switching to icicles?
Just play one character until Oriath and buy each skill at level 1 from Lilly. No need for trading, switching chars and all that...
What about a detonate totem set up
is there a good place to view a items guide and gems and stuff for this build?
youtube a video on how to use path of building then use this link once you have an idea of what to do pastebin.com/0zBQZhcT
@@tarryngregory8644 ok thank u I will retry...I am familiar with POB but when I plugged the code in, it did not show gems or items for this build, just path of tree
I think playing mines would set my GPU on fire.
Hey this gear is easily obtainable and cheap....... gear goes up 2000% in 24 hours lol.
Why not link Spell Totem Support to Detonate Mines and let the totem does the work?
That was one of the first things he explained in the video. This will break your detonation sequence and lower your damage significantly
Only really helps (healthwise, and even there just barely) with long bossfights that use up multiple mine sequences. You don't need to spam Detonate anymore. Just drop a bunch of mines, hit detonate and continue spamming mines. The sequence will continue on its own, no totem required. In effect, laying down the totem is similar to hitting Detonate now, but slower and with far less player control (see above responses for why that matters).
@Roronoa Zoro Maybe the other way around; let the spell totem throw your mines and detonate them yourself :D
Shame about all the jank happening, seems to be a running theme for a lot of things going on in this game the past couple leagues. Hopefully GGG can slow down and figure their stuff out a bit more often.
I gained 50% MORE E-Peen by watching this video!
That's an impressive e-peen. Tried pyroclast mines for single target?
I'm a lvl 96.5 miner, and I find it effortless. All I have to do is spam Q and W (drop/detonate). Everything, including guardians, dies instantly. I occasionally tap E or Oak flask for Vaal Grace/Penortration, but that's about it. Perhaps you're doing it wrong? 9 Power orb dual Void Batteries FTW.
Can you provide a link to your POB if you have one or a written guide to follow? Your build idea seems like fun and i would love to know more.
Is your build similar to Cappie's Pyroclast Dual Void Battery Miner?
Look at Windz mine gameplay, its insane
can you do a PoB with Sabo please? I already level mine to 89.... ♥
mine saboteur is unplayable shit . I was suffering with in in the start of a league . Ascendancy is either useless or for traps only . Just dont
Yeah just respect to traps with a few regrets.
Who needs fucking ad revenue?
*THAT'S A PRO GAMER MOVE BRO*
Speaking of "a little bit janky" skills, I find brands a bit awkward as well.
Honestly, I don't think it's that clunky once you get used to it. It's all about sequences and where is your cursor when you detonate. The damage is the highest burst I've seen on a cheap build (special mention to Pyroclast Mine, WTF is this boss damage ??).
Man, I love destroying my hands for effectiveness! Gotta try this out too! Those easy click and kill builds are not engaging enough anyways, I need to feel like operating a super computer while playing a game yeah! (jk, but I do like that kind of playstyles)
To feel like you are using a super computer... make one input, then return two weeks later :P
Why no skill review really looking forward to why u decided to go icic le and not pyroclast
He said on stream that icicle mines have better clear, and the single-target damage is still enough, so that's why he picked them over pyroclast.
a few things:
Why not use Flesh and Stone to be a gimped Saboteur ? xD no really, blinding everyone near you and getting reduced dmg from enemys not near you is sooo strong with acrobatics.
I happend to find "The Doctor" card and now have around 7 EX starting currency, is there some specific chest i should aim for or simply go with a Loreweave/OP Rare ?
kaom's heart is pretty good but its cheap
if you use a staff as main weapon*
Drinking game: 1 shot when ever he says chain :D
Thanks Ziggy nice video ;)
5.5 Shaper Per second :D :D
I was leveling a consuming Dark Pyroclast Miner in Hardcore before I ripped in act 7. Was so much fun. Im currently leveling another one in softcore but trying out a different approach with the unique highborn staff which has a name but I'm just forgetting
I tried pyroclast, I couldn't get behind the slow clearing speeds, how are you handling that? I was considering burning with prolif but never got around to it, just switched to icicle cause it felt a bit better.
@@yayayaya931 GMP handles it pretty well actually. It starts your inital chain off at a higher count and they spread out decently well once it stacks. It about doubles the area after 12-15 in a sequence. Could also do inc aoe/conc effect for clear/bosses.
saboteur ascendency si the most useless shit i ever seen
when bow class is better at mines than the mine class itself...
1:24 Ded ....No not a typo, dead as in ded dead.
BIGGEST ELECTRONIC DPS PP
realm ender unique staff if any 1 cant afford that staff 1 ex and maby gives mroe damage than that staff
Realmwalker?
1:25 what
0:11 Hahaha! Because mines are devices.
Icicle for map clear, pyroclast for single target
Pyro is great but doesnt benefit from +3 cold spells on staves or similar effects.
pyro kinda sucks ..due to the visual clutter..but if you can burst boss down in one go its amazing but for phase boss its horrible
darksto true you can’t see anything underneath it all. But rest assured it’s all dead
Don't have pc need gems for build pls :(
Shit you stole my build😰, lol I made the exact same build as my league starter.
Yeah, standing there chucking mines that explode for 4 screens looks like "high effort" gameplay to me XD I hope that was a bad joke.
High effort is having carpal tunnel
very sarcastic video. lol
Great video Ziggy, but can you call this a "build guide" when you barely touch over your own gear, and dont talk about your passive tree at all? If anything it seems more like a review than a guide
It's in the description. I personally prefer this quick overview.
We hate it
Noice
Your math is obviously wrong af. You were counting that if all your projectiles hit and can chain the max times per second. But u won't be hitting so many targets and chaining the max times most the time. So that math is just a trash boast.
Wait...am I first?
BOi LMAO
Who in the world counting DPS on multiple targets? Is it fair to say that flameblast have 200 mil dps, because there were happenned 1k mobs in blast radius? Nobody ever count dps that way, it always on single target only.
I get it that it is a joke, but still... joke still need to be somehow based on reality to be funny.
you say you get it its a joke, but then you dont get it. make up your mind bruv
@@zozokaa i said that joke need to be somewhat consistent with reality, or else it's not funny, and therefore isn't a joke.
tl;dr - that joke is awful, and not qualified to be called that way.
@@Med1umentor damn you must be fun at parties
@@zozokaa damn right, i am!