I feel like Toby being SA'd by Jenna is so overlooked in the show! And then the same thing happens to him again with Alex Drake and no one in the show even talks about it!
Young or old, men and boys get hurt too. I think that's why it was switched. To show that there is predatory actions the other way as well It changes everything about the Jenna thing but both scenarios work
Mona’s motive in the books is perfect. Not only did she witness The Jenna Thing, but she was close enough that she actually also had burns on her body from it. She shows it to Spencer in Book 4 in the car after she’s found out. In addition to that the girls really did bully both her and Jenna pretty harshly. It’s sprinkled out throughout the series some of the examples of what they’d do to them and it was all of them being complicit instead of them just being guilty by association like they did in the show.
I absolutely think that the book version of this storyline is way better written than the show. So I kinda wish they kept it. And this makes Mona’s motives for being A way stronger as well
i’m just now starting the books ( i don’t mind being spoiled so i watched this) and the books are 10000x more world building and consistent so far!! i like to think of them as completely seperate things bc they’re great in their own ways even if the show was way more convoluted
I think they should've stayed with the book version. While I love Mona and her A reveal is by far the best, I always thought that her motive was kinda weak? We never really see the girls actively bullying her (unless there were flashbacks in later seasons I forgot about) except for Allison (and that one time Aria is running away from her laughing), so her threatening the girls especially Hanna who is her best friend because they didn't stop Ally back then doesn't make for a strong motive in my opinion. If she was friends with Jenna however - and I can totally see them making an amazing duo, we have been robbed! - and she thought the girls had been with her and watched her as she threw in the firecracker, that would've made for a better reason for her to go after the Liars and also link Jenna who became so useless after season 1 to the plot. Also, I think it's very gross and problematic how the writers had Jenna threaten Toby to tell everyone he r*ped her. It was thoughtless and send a very dangerous message to the audience. I could've maybe forgiven them if they had handled Toby's role as a male victim of abuse well at least but no, they only went for the shock-effect and that people who read the books wouldn't be spoiled. I really like Toby in the first few seasons of the series but I really think they should've gone with the book storyline. It also would've given the Liars the opportunity to make friends with Jenna and actually come to terms with how much of a terrible person Ally really was.
I love your point on Mona's motive (from the show) because I feel the same way. When she was revealed she kept telling Spencer like "you guys took my only friend" but I'm like waiiiitt. No. You sent your friend away because you started stalking her and her former BFFs. Naturally they would come back together because they were all going through the same thing and no one else knew but them. Like girl, make it make sense lol But I did love Mona as A though! And she's my favorite character on the show. Her arc was wild!
I actually prefered the books version of Mona's motive for becoming -A. It just makes way more sense. And I also loved your theory of Alison being jealous of Emily potentially falling for Jenna. Beause while I don't believe that she was ever in love with Em, losing her most loyal follower to Jenna would hurt her ego. And considering Spencer was always one argument away from leaving too, her whole clique could easily fall apart if that happened.
i'm only a few minutes in, but i had a hunch that the start of the night of the jenna thing when the girls are in emily's room trying on clothes, that that was the same night shown in 1x21 when the girls found the NAT videos and are watching them. watching those two episodes back, i was right that it does look that way, but obviously the cameras are in different angles. i do think this is suppose to explain that alison did see something in the window the night of the jenna thing, (the NAT club) but just said that it was toby and furthered the night to her own agenda. i know the whole ali finding the NAT videos is a plothole because of the toby blackmail, maybe they should've gone on from the night of the jenna that ali did see the NAT faces and found the videos that night in order to blackmail toby later
Watching PLL videos, I always wait to see if people explain the Jenna/Toby thing the way I always thought it happened. In the show at least; I never read the books. I think when Ali opens the garage door to drop the firework, she sees Jenna and Toby hooking up. That’s why when she looks around the garage, she pauses, gasps and jerks back before slamming the door. This is the first time she sees them and just assumes Toby is the aggressor. Toby even tells Spencer later that Alison “thought she had something on me. She didn’t understand what was really going on and she used it against me anyway.” (S1E18 The Badass Seed) Alison blackmails Toby immediately with this information so he’ll take the fall for blinding Jenna. He doesn’t say anything because he thinks exactly what Jenna says in the NAT video we see later - people will assume he was forcing himself on her and Jenna will lie to confirm that so there’s no point in him telling the truth. But when Alison sees the NAT videos on Ian’s computer later, that’s when she find out it was Jenna forcing herself on Toby. So then she goes to the blind school and blackmails Jenna too.
In the flashback, she accused Toby of looking her window, he denies it, and she says "but I've looked in yours" -- so I assume that means she saw them long before stealing Ian's videos and wildly misinterpreted what was happening.
Yeah, I agree. I think she sees them for the first time the night of the explosion. But only when she finds Ian’s videos does she realize Jenna was the aggressor, not Toby.
I get how the book version of events makes Mona's motive make more sense, but I kind of like the way the show went. Tbh, there isn't a lot of media or imagery depicting sexual violence against men and I think despite it's terrible implications of pdf-ilia and inappropriate relationships, it did a lot to show that boys can be victims of SA too and it's just as valid. I wish they put more thought into Mona's motive to make up for it but I wouldn't make them backtrack on the change either. The books are still there, the original dynamic isn't erased entirely it's just a flipped script.
Girl I found your channel last week and your PLL videos are all I’ve been watching!! It’s refueled my PLL interest and I’m rewatching the show, it has been so much fun! Can’t wait to get into this video
Stink bombs start smoking and letting the bad smell out almost as soon as they’re lit. Also, the smell is so bad, it stinks to clothes, hair, and skin. It’s really hard to wash off. That’s what the warning labels say anyways, so I would’ve ran, too.
I feel like you’re spot on with the manipulation theory. Show wise, I feel like this event was very calculated. She’s hated Jenna since that Halloween party. Maybe because of jealousy and maybe because of lack of control of a situation. She always wanted to “get her back” or “make her not a threat” because of course Jenna was funny and beautiful and stood out. Imo she planned this out and wanted to frame Toby, it was never a stink bomb and she wanted accomplices. Especially if she was ever actually into Toby because finding out Jenna liked him too could’ve been another motive. Ali is definitely a manipulator (I’d go as far and say narcissist) and she’s a seed planter type because even though the girls had never seen Toby outside and they did the Jenna thing, literally EVERYONE in town assumed Toby was a bad guy.
I feel like the books were so much better than the show. I wished they followed the books more often bc I think the book version of the Jenna thing was way more jaw dropping than the TV show. I still love the show, but I wish the show followed the books more!
I loved Toby too much to want to change the TV storyline to what it was in the books. But it would have been nice if they kept the idea of Ali actually doing it to help (or at least have that as part of her motivation), but helping Toby against Jenna instead of the other way around, but then it goes wrong and Jenna gets hurt a lot more than they intended. It would have helped to strengthen Ali's redemption arc later on. Mona and Jenna being friends and that being part of her motivation would have been good to. I think the reason none of them ever apologised is simply cause that would be admitting out loud to being part of or at least to covering up a crime.
And it was never explained why jenna stopped forcing herself on Toby, I thout she stoped because she went blind. So I dont feel bad for Jenna. Most of the "We see all" club members died. If I remember correctly Jenna was in that club or at lest helped. So now she " Can't see at all" . Karma came to her but since Alison delivered it everyone thinks it not earned to Jenna. Will i think Jenna got what she delivered.
I thout Jenna being blinded was perfect karma. She was in the "We see all" club, and now she can't see at all. Alison reson was wrong, but I still think Jenna be blinded was fair, she did bad things too
The explanation of The Jenna Thing in the show is a little weird because they flipped the story in the books and it has no connection to Mona's A motive. My understanding is that Ali saw Jenna and Toby in the garage because she has a reaction to something before she throws the stink bomb. She assumed Toby was the abuser and blackmailed him to take the fall for the fire. He doesn't say anything because he doesn't think anyone will believe him & he can get away from Jenna. The day she goes missing, Ali sees the NAT videos, finds out Jenna is the abuser & blackmails her.
I don't think it's crazy that no one apologized to Jenna with everything they knew about her. From what I gathered, she helped the N. A. T club "We see all", spy on other little girls changing in their bedrooms. She forced herself on her stepbrother. And for what I see in the flash backs she was not very nice to others eather. She was no Alison, but she was not nice. Like I said earlier she was in the "We see all" club and now she "Cant see at all". Karma came to hurt just in a shitty different weird baKarma came to her just in a shity, different, weird and backward way. The reason I think people feel bad for her is because of why Alison. Alison's motivation was wrong, but the result, in my opinion, was quite fitting. Do I feel bad for Jenna sometime, but then I remember Jenna hurt Toby, went after the girls and not so much Alison, was in a nasty club, help tamper with evidances, and was just a wird character. Sometimes i wish we got to see more of her. So I could understand her, but I dont.
I actually don't think that Alison blinded Jenna because she felt sorry for him, Toby never really liked Alison eventhough he gave her the sweater, he might have just done that to get on Alisons' good side because he knows what she is capable of. Alison also threatened Toby to turn himself in and said that she was going to expose what happened with him and Jenna, she definitely wanted to cover up what she did. Given her character she never really cares about anyone but herself.
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I feel like Toby being SA'd by Jenna is so overlooked in the show! And then the same thing happens to him again with Alex Drake and no one in the show even talks about it!
Agreed!
Young or old, men and boys get hurt too. I think that's why it was switched. To show that there is predatory actions the other way as well
It changes everything about the Jenna thing but both scenarios work
Mona’s motive in the books is perfect. Not only did she witness The Jenna Thing, but she was close enough that she actually also had burns on her body from it. She shows it to Spencer in Book 4 in the car after she’s found out.
In addition to that the girls really did bully both her and Jenna pretty harshly. It’s sprinkled out throughout the series some of the examples of what they’d do to them and it was all of them being complicit instead of them just being guilty by association like they did in the show.
I absolutely think that the book version of this storyline is way better written than the show. So I kinda wish they kept it. And this makes Mona’s motives for being A way stronger as well
i’m just now starting the books ( i don’t mind being spoiled so i watched this) and the books are 10000x more world building and consistent so far!! i like to think of them as completely seperate things bc they’re great in their own ways even if the show was way more convoluted
I think they should've stayed with the book version. While I love Mona and her A reveal is by far the best, I always thought that her motive was kinda weak? We never really see the girls actively bullying her (unless there were flashbacks in later seasons I forgot about) except for Allison (and that one time Aria is running away from her laughing), so her threatening the girls especially Hanna who is her best friend because they didn't stop Ally back then doesn't make for a strong motive in my opinion. If she was friends with Jenna however - and I can totally see them making an amazing duo, we have been robbed! - and she thought the girls had been with her and watched her as she threw in the firecracker, that would've made for a better reason for her to go after the Liars and also link Jenna who became so useless after season 1 to the plot.
Also, I think it's very gross and problematic how the writers had Jenna threaten Toby to tell everyone he r*ped her. It was thoughtless and send a very dangerous message to the audience. I could've maybe forgiven them if they had handled Toby's role as a male victim of abuse well at least but no, they only went for the shock-effect and that people who read the books wouldn't be spoiled.
I really like Toby in the first few seasons of the series but I really think they should've gone with the book storyline. It also would've given the Liars the opportunity to make friends with Jenna and actually come to terms with how much of a terrible person Ally really was.
I love your point on Mona's motive (from the show) because I feel the same way. When she was revealed she kept telling Spencer like "you guys took my only friend" but I'm like waiiiitt. No. You sent your friend away because you started stalking her and her former BFFs. Naturally they would come back together because they were all going through the same thing and no one else knew but them. Like girl, make it make sense lol But I did love Mona as A though! And she's my favorite character on the show. Her arc was wild!
I actually prefered the books version of Mona's motive for becoming -A. It just makes way more sense. And I also loved your theory of Alison being jealous of Emily potentially falling for Jenna. Beause while I don't believe that she was ever in love with Em, losing her most loyal follower to Jenna would hurt her ego. And considering Spencer was always one argument away from leaving too, her whole clique could easily fall apart if that happened.
i'm only a few minutes in, but i had a hunch that the start of the night of the jenna thing when the girls are in emily's room trying on clothes, that that was the same night shown in 1x21 when the girls found the NAT videos and are watching them. watching those two episodes back, i was right that it does look that way, but obviously the cameras are in different angles. i do think this is suppose to explain that alison did see something in the window the night of the jenna thing, (the NAT club) but just said that it was toby and furthered the night to her own agenda. i know the whole ali finding the NAT videos is a plothole because of the toby blackmail, maybe they should've gone on from the night of the jenna that ali did see the NAT faces and found the videos that night in order to blackmail toby later
Watching PLL videos, I always wait to see if people explain the Jenna/Toby thing the way I always thought it happened. In the show at least; I never read the books.
I think when Ali opens the garage door to drop the firework, she sees Jenna and Toby hooking up. That’s why when she looks around the garage, she pauses, gasps and jerks back before slamming the door. This is the first time she sees them and just assumes Toby is the aggressor. Toby even tells Spencer later that Alison “thought she had something on me. She didn’t understand what was really going on and she used it against me anyway.” (S1E18 The Badass Seed) Alison blackmails Toby immediately with this information so he’ll take the fall for blinding Jenna. He doesn’t say anything because he thinks exactly what Jenna says in the NAT video we see later - people will assume he was forcing himself on her and Jenna will lie to confirm that so there’s no point in him telling the truth.
But when Alison sees the NAT videos on Ian’s computer later, that’s when she find out it was Jenna forcing herself on Toby. So then she goes to the blind school and blackmails Jenna too.
In the flashback, she accused Toby of looking her window, he denies it, and she says "but I've looked in yours" -- so I assume that means she saw them long before stealing Ian's videos and wildly misinterpreted what was happening.
Yeah, I agree. I think she sees them for the first time the night of the explosion. But only when she finds Ian’s videos does she realize Jenna was the aggressor, not Toby.
I get how the book version of events makes Mona's motive make more sense, but I kind of like the way the show went. Tbh, there isn't a lot of media or imagery depicting sexual violence against men and I think despite it's terrible implications of pdf-ilia and inappropriate relationships, it did a lot to show that boys can be victims of SA too and it's just as valid. I wish they put more thought into Mona's motive to make up for it but I wouldn't make them backtrack on the change either. The books are still there, the original dynamic isn't erased entirely it's just a flipped script.
Girl I found your channel last week and your PLL videos are all I’ve been watching!! It’s refueled my PLL interest and I’m rewatching the show, it has been so much fun! Can’t wait to get into this video
No one talks about Toby and Jenna in later seasons
Can you please do a ranking of every episode or every season? I live for your PLL videos ❤
Stink bombs start smoking and letting the bad smell out almost as soon as they’re lit. Also, the smell is so bad, it stinks to clothes, hair, and skin. It’s really hard to wash off. That’s what the warning labels say anyways, so I would’ve ran, too.
I feel like you’re spot on with the manipulation theory. Show wise, I feel like this event was very calculated. She’s hated Jenna since that Halloween party. Maybe because of jealousy and maybe because of lack of control of a situation. She always wanted to “get her back” or “make her not a threat” because of course Jenna was funny and beautiful and stood out. Imo she planned this out and wanted to frame Toby, it was never a stink bomb and she wanted accomplices. Especially if she was ever actually into Toby because finding out Jenna liked him too could’ve been another motive. Ali is definitely a manipulator (I’d go as far and say narcissist) and she’s a seed planter type because even though the girls had never seen Toby outside and they did the Jenna thing, literally EVERYONE in town assumed Toby was a bad guy.
Also I think Jenna was truly afraid of Ali after the incident so I’m assuming that’s why she avoided her and tormented the girls
The jenna thing drove me CRAZY
Not even horror got me as stressed reading a book!
i get so excited whenever you post new pll content! ❤
I feel like the books were so much better than the show. I wished they followed the books more often bc I think the book version of the Jenna thing was way more jaw dropping than the TV show. I still love the show, but I wish the show followed the books more!
Yes! I'm reading the books for the first time at the moment and there's so many good stories they could've included!
Loving the PLL content💜
Thank uuuuu for pll videos!!!!! 💓💓💓💓
I loved Toby too much to want to change the TV storyline to what it was in the books. But it would have been nice if they kept the idea of Ali actually doing it to help (or at least have that as part of her motivation), but helping Toby against Jenna instead of the other way around, but then it goes wrong and Jenna gets hurt a lot more than they intended. It would have helped to strengthen Ali's redemption arc later on. Mona and Jenna being friends and that being part of her motivation would have been good to.
I think the reason none of them ever apologised is simply cause that would be admitting out loud to being part of or at least to covering up a crime.
I feel like she was protecting Toby but also jealous because of Emily I love you Lauren daisy’s
Loooove the editing in this video ❤
20:38 alison being threatened of emilys obsession going away is VERY alison. Very book alison. She needs emilys obsession as validation
yessss never miss!!!
Would love a Jenna deep dive. Book & show Jenna. I’ve always wondered if she was into girls or not or just using women who were to do her bidding 🤔
And it was never explained why jenna stopped forcing herself on Toby, I thout she stoped because she went blind. So I dont feel bad for Jenna. Most of the "We see all" club members died. If I remember correctly Jenna was in that club or at lest helped. So now she " Can't see at all" . Karma came to her but since Alison delivered it everyone thinks it not earned to Jenna. Will i think Jenna got what she delivered.
U should watch Twin Peaks
I thout Jenna being blinded was perfect karma. She was in the "We see all" club, and now she can't see at all. Alison reson was wrong, but I still think Jenna be blinded was fair, she did bad things too
The explanation of The Jenna Thing in the show is a little weird because they flipped the story in the books and it has no connection to Mona's A motive. My understanding is that Ali saw Jenna and Toby in the garage because she has a reaction to something before she throws the stink bomb. She assumed Toby was the abuser and blackmailed him to take the fall for the fire. He doesn't say anything because he doesn't think anyone will believe him & he can get away from Jenna. The day she goes missing, Ali sees the NAT videos, finds out Jenna is the abuser & blackmails her.
I don't think it's crazy that no one apologized to Jenna with everything they knew about her. From what I gathered, she helped the N. A. T club "We see all", spy on other little girls changing in their bedrooms. She forced herself on her stepbrother. And for what I see in the flash backs she was not very nice to others eather. She was no Alison, but she was not nice. Like I said earlier she was in the "We see all" club and now she "Cant see at all". Karma came to hurt just in a shitty different weird baKarma came to her just in a shity, different, weird and backward way. The reason I think people feel bad for her is because of why Alison. Alison's motivation was wrong, but the result, in my opinion, was quite fitting. Do I feel bad for Jenna sometime, but then I remember Jenna hurt Toby, went after the girls and not so much Alison, was in a nasty club, help tamper with evidances, and was just a wird character. Sometimes i wish we got to see more of her. So I could understand her, but I dont.
I actually don't think that Alison blinded Jenna because she felt sorry for him, Toby never really liked Alison eventhough he gave her the sweater, he might have just done that to get on Alisons' good side because he knows what she is capable of. Alison also threatened Toby to turn himself in and said that she was going to expose what happened with him and Jenna, she definitely wanted to cover up what she did. Given her character she never really cares about anyone but herself.