Most cheap USB LAs may be a toy, but they're great for non- or semi-professional work. I've been using the 20$ 16-channel Saleae clones for reverse engineering tons of great junkyard stuff, and they've served that purpose really well. And I'm not even going to mention all the Arduino tinkering and the recent upsurge in hobbyist project platforms. Really shows that this video is a few years old already - perhaps EEVblog will come around to revisiting that topic in that new light.
@@divyajnana this toy is new for me from what one could i depart for my ferguson bigboarda stopped at their startup? Do i need more than 16 chs? Any suggestion would great for me. enrico@vintagesbc.it (and www.vintagesbc.it website also)
For years I used 74HCT86 EXOR gates to multiply the number of digital channels on my 2 channel scope. As long as I could recognize the signal on the scopes display, it's inverted or non inverted image was not a problem.
You skipped an important part of what many hobbyists are using logic analyzers for. And that is for revers engineering stuff by sniffing the serial commands between different IC's. And for this purpose a cheap USB logic analyzer is usually more than god enough.
One thing that Dave doesn't mention here is that a compression sampling doesn't just record the state change data. It has to store somekind of a timestamp of when that state change occur. Depending on the formating and depth of this timestamp, this will also define compression sampling as an advantage or a disadvantage.
Excellent video, valuable informations! Thank you for this! I would have looove a video to show in real time the difference between each one (cheap USB, good USB, Oscilloscope) in real situation !
This is more of a rant against logic analyzer use. Perhaps a good thing to discourage those prone to needlessly getting more toys, but more of a user tutorial would be nice.
I never used a logic analyzer... never will actually. A high-priced oscilloscope can buffer the data, and save the wave form, so I can review it anyway.
@averagemale2000: Sharing "understanding" is not a lecture or theory, If he went on about Nyquist-Shannon sampling theory and memory / bit-size / frequency calculations, that's theory. A tutorial is not limited to a hand holding "copy me" exercise, but can be full of practical and pragmatic advice Lab tutorials for physical lab experiments (physics, chemistry, biology) focus on the pragmatic details, not the lab itself. E.g. Instruction on using a lab instrument. Selecting a stain for slides etc
The worst problem is a glitch/bitch; a state changing power short, etc. Or missed event; alike a counter carry output pulse didn't reset f/f. Over heating causes slow logic, example, old 1978, 74161 TTL counter clocked@ 20Mhz, more heat sink with with huge PCB copper lands to fix weak carry flag. Today the limit approx. 160Mhz with AS logic; am I wrong? More speed = more heat= saturation limit. If your clock edge is sharp and 50:50 your clean and mean. Emitter coupled logic runs hot, at 500Mhz 10xxx series. DWave™quantum computers can't work because of the Heisenberg uncertainty nonsense. haha
Pretty amazed at how few viewers take the half a second required to click on the 'Like' button. Some of Dave's vids have 80 or 90 thousand views but a miserable few hundred 'likes. I'd be a tad pissed off if it were me ! ;-)'
I like your channel but seriously - why don't you stop insisting on having really expensive equipment. Many of us are hobbyists playing with Arduino type micros. We want to know what cheap stuff works for our purposes. It's fine to say "this is the best, or this is what you want ideally" but what about "you can get by with this"... We buy the cheap stuff from China on ebay and if it doesn't work - oh well, order another one ;) Budgets are like $50 to $100 at best. Hell, most of the stuff I order is under $10 lol.
Completely agree, eBay has a huuge range of cheap stuff and chances are if you're watching tutorials like this, you aren't a professional and don't have the budget to match. I think he just hangs on to the point of "you get what you pay for", and being a professional like himself, he tends to have higher standards from his equipment than us casuals
Digger D It's because he's a professional designer himself,he knows that if you want bang for your buck,you're going to want to pay more. Us on the other hand want more little bangs for our buck because we know we can end up messing up stuff! I'm merely watching this video because I'm making a logic analyzer out of cheap arduino mini that'll do compression sampling with interrupts on 2 channels, to identify some odd "Shark" proprietry protocol on an electric wheelchair. =P
+Digger D and as a hobbies we only using low speed data transfer, and the cheap one is just cool. like playing on servo signal and most of all, the arduino community just using 8Mhz clock !! buy cheap one for logic analyzer, so you can invest the money to oscilloscope, p.s mean while i build my own logic analyzer :doh:
He said buy good quality stuff, he didn't say buy expensive. There's plenty of high quality vintage stuff available depending on your needs, no need to buy import crap that will eventually fail.
Good stuff, but you should consider renaming your title/description of this series of videos. This is not a tutorial but a lecture. Lecture = theory Tutorial = real world interactive example on how to perform a specific task.
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Most cheap USB LAs may be a toy, but they're great for non- or semi-professional work. I've been using the 20$ 16-channel Saleae clones for reverse engineering tons of great junkyard stuff, and they've served that purpose really well. And I'm not even going to mention all the Arduino tinkering and the recent upsurge in hobbyist project platforms. Really shows that this video is a few years old already - perhaps EEVblog will come around to revisiting that topic in that new light.
I say please update! 16 ch/100 Mhz units for 41 USD on eBay with free ePackage shipping.
@@divyajnana this toy is new for me from what one could i depart for my ferguson bigboarda stopped at their startup? Do i need more than 16 chs? Any suggestion would great for me. enrico@vintagesbc.it (and www.vintagesbc.it website also)
I'm just beginning to understand electronics and your tutorials have been absolutely amazing! Thanks Dave!
Excellent summary!
Thanks, Dave!
@mctylr Well said. @averagemale2000 There is no point talking semantics, people search for the word "tutorial" much more often than "lecture".
i think u have a cricket in your room in the last part of your video there Dave.
For years I used 74HCT86 EXOR gates to multiply the number of digital channels on my 2 channel scope.
As long as I could recognize the signal on the scopes display, it's inverted or non inverted image was not a problem.
Brilliant video, thanks Dave
Thank you! I studied mechanical engineering and now I'm working in controls design for some reason, and I am in way over my head.
Thanks for the information on logic analyzers Dave.
I will keep what you said in mind when I purchase one (which I know will happen, given time)
You skipped an important part of what many hobbyists are using logic analyzers for. And that is for revers engineering stuff by sniffing the serial commands between different IC's. And for this purpose a cheap USB logic analyzer is usually more than god enough.
One thing that Dave doesn't mention here is that a compression sampling doesn't just record the state change data. It has to store somekind of a timestamp of when that state change occur. Depending on the formating and depth of this timestamp, this will also define compression sampling as an advantage or a disadvantage.
Excellent video, valuable informations! Thank you for this!
I would have looove a video to show in real time the difference between each one (cheap USB, good USB, Oscilloscope) in real situation !
I just acquired a Sony/Tektronix 338, which appears to date from 1984. I guess that works a whole lot differently to the more modern USB ones.
This is more of a rant against logic analyzer use. Perhaps a good thing to discourage those prone to needlessly getting more toys, but more of a user tutorial would be nice.
Another amazing video @EEVblog #EEEblog , ;-] #Thanks ;-]
I expected Dave to show the analyser he hold in his hands actually measuring something (showing the software etc)..
Tigrou7777 you mean like a tutorial right??
Great video. Is it possible to decode a rf signal with a logic analyzer, I mean to know 0 and 1 from the rf signal?
lol, there's a faulty fan in your video, I thought my pc has some dying fan
Would you consider the Owon MSO8102T 100MHz Mixed Logic Analyzer - Oscilloscope a good scope & logic analyzer to buy?
Maybe it's a good idea to make Logic Analyzer video again, after 10 years :)
Some things have changed meanwhile
Honestly, really that much? Prices might have come down a bit, what was 100$ now it's maybe 40
In the Playlist Part 2 before 1, Starting with Part 1 Batteries come next !!
Great video blog. Really good explainations for us young players. : )
Keep up the good work!
I never used a logic analyzer... never will actually. A high-priced oscilloscope can buffer the data, and save the wave form, so I can review it anyway.
Hey why can't I get this channel on cable. This is real TV if your asking me. Thanks for sharing.
Can you use oscilloscope to check logic analyzer if it modifies signals too much?
@averagemale2000: Sharing "understanding" is not a lecture or theory, If he went on about Nyquist-Shannon sampling theory and memory / bit-size / frequency calculations, that's theory. A tutorial is not limited to a hand holding "copy me" exercise, but can be full of practical and pragmatic advice Lab tutorials for physical lab experiments (physics, chemistry, biology) focus on the pragmatic details, not the lab itself. E.g. Instruction on using a lab instrument. Selecting a stain for slides etc
Very well done. Accent helps somehow to keep it interesting, lol.
Australian crickets chirp much faster than Canadian crickets
Dave: you would consider the USB Intronix LogicPort a serious analyzer wouldnt' you ?
The worst problem is a glitch/bitch; a state changing power short, etc. Or missed event; alike a counter carry output pulse didn't reset f/f. Over heating causes slow logic, example, old 1978, 74161 TTL counter clocked@ 20Mhz, more heat sink with with huge PCB copper lands to fix weak carry flag. Today the limit approx. 160Mhz with AS logic; am I wrong? More speed = more heat= saturation limit. If your clock edge is sharp and 50:50 your clean and mean. Emitter coupled logic runs hot, at 500Mhz 10xxx series. DWave™quantum computers can't work because of the Heisenberg uncertainty nonsense. haha
audio is somewhat messed up, hope this is not from new camera :(
Smart
What is that annoying sound 6:30
Pretty amazed at how few viewers take the half a second required to click on the 'Like' button. Some of Dave's vids have 80 or 90 thousand views but a miserable few hundred 'likes.
I'd be a tad pissed off if it were me ! ;-)'
12 years later even cheapos have 1Gig compressed memory ;)
Show me tutorial how to use the logics analyzer, you keep advertise the unit without telling how to operate it.
Advertise? He spent most of the time talking about the negative aspects of a unit like that
I like your channel but seriously - why don't you stop insisting on having really expensive equipment. Many of us are hobbyists playing with Arduino type micros. We want to know what cheap stuff works for our purposes. It's fine to say "this is the best, or this is what you want ideally" but what about "you can get by with this"... We buy the cheap stuff from China on ebay and if it doesn't work - oh well, order another one ;) Budgets are like $50 to $100 at best. Hell, most of the stuff I order is under $10 lol.
Completely agree, eBay has a huuge range of cheap stuff and chances are if you're watching tutorials like this, you aren't a professional and don't have the budget to match. I think he just hangs on to the point of "you get what you pay for", and being a professional like himself, he tends to have higher standards from his equipment than us casuals
Digger D It's because he's a professional designer himself,he knows that if you want bang for your buck,you're going to want to pay more. Us on the other hand want more little bangs for our buck because we know we can end up messing up stuff! I'm merely watching this video because I'm making a logic analyzer out of cheap arduino mini that'll do compression sampling with interrupts on 2 channels, to identify some odd "Shark" proprietry protocol on an electric wheelchair. =P
As I'm probably going to just burn up half of it - cheap is good lol ;)
+Digger D and as a hobbies we only using low speed data transfer, and the cheap one is just cool. like playing on servo signal and most of all, the arduino community just using 8Mhz clock !! buy cheap one for logic analyzer, so you can invest the money to oscilloscope,
p.s mean while i build my own logic analyzer :doh:
He said buy good quality stuff, he didn't say buy expensive. There's plenty of high quality vintage stuff available depending on your needs, no need to buy import crap that will eventually fail.
Good stuff, but you should consider renaming your title/description of this series of videos. This is not a tutorial but a lecture.
Lecture = theory
Tutorial = real world interactive example on how to perform a specific task.