I am pretty sure that this channel is the only one on TH-cam that I have watched EVERY single video because there is always so much great info and inspiration for the shop.
@@PiersonWorkholding the only thing I wish is that there was more videos but then if you did that the quality of the info would go down so I'm just going to shut my mouth and encourage you to keep doing what you are doing!
100% I sure wish they made more fixture Friday’s. Soooooo useful and a great sales nudge for their product. I check for new vids weekly itching for more nuggets
Jay, Glad to see you putting out videos again! One topic that would be great to get your perspective on is the offline management of chips/coolant in your shop. Specifically relating to cleanliness of working with offline pallets. We are trying to think of clever ways to keep our pallet unload/load process as quick and clean as possible. We have some ideas, and are already using chip fans in the machines, but would love to hear from you on this as well.
. Those clamps put a lot of horizontal load and can move the horizontal x/y location around quite a bit. My recommendation to buyers is don’t be cheap and get the smallest/thinnest pallet you can. Yes it’s cheaper and lighter. But an extra bit of meat goes a long way. My first pallet experience I wish I had had an extra 0.5 or more heck 2”more width to resist the force of these clamps. Placing a part 1” sunk in and 1” above the pallet for op2 I could yaw the part rotationally with low clamping force as the pallet wall bowed. Keep it in mind! (My design fault, not a Pierson fault, their mini pallet product worked flawlessly! ) I left 0.5” of wall as a support and it was not nearly enough. Leave some meat, you can always remove it later if the pallet is to heavy! Thanks again for the vids/great products Jhon!
Can you explain how that is actually a better way to make these than on your lathe? With the lathe you get unattended runtime of (however many parts fit into a bar) * (how many bars are loaded in the feeder). I would guess that adds up to a lot more than fit on the fixture. You are also not spending 5-10 minutes of manual labor loading/unloading parts, not to mention the strain on operators of handling loaded pallets. The biggest benefit for quality would be making a complete part every cycle. You would be able to observe and mitigate issues such as wear or broken tools before they cause parts to go out of spec. In the case of the pallet you have the potential to end up with a fully loaded pallet of bad parts PLUS a lost hour of runtime. Obviously some nuances in how the lathe runs, and maybe its not profitable to run those ¢ types of parts on that kind of $$$ machine
You can't just figure cycle time you also have to factor in unloading and loading the parts either in the machine vise or on a pallet. My guess is the pallet system is overall faster per part making it even a better outcome.
It tips even more in favor of the pallet! Loading and unloading vises is way slower than the pallet, plus you can have two pallets and just swap them and do the unloading and loading while the machine does another cycle.
Nice to see you again Jay. I always like it when you young Bucks come up with great ideas. Well done video. Give John a big “pat on the back”. How do We access this new platform?
Nice fixture there! Idea for the "knive makers method" in the second op: Why don't you make a second op fixture plate similar to your current one, but with the exact same part positions as on the first op. Then you could leave your OP10 parts clamped while you put the empty second op fixture on top. Then screw all the parts in from the top into the finished threads without having to hold the plate and fiddling around the workpiece and screws from two sides. Since the position of the parts is still given by the OP10 fixture this should be a lot easier. Calling it the "contact grill method" :D
Jay, I am curious what your approach is when you are trying to sell your own product through your own website but are regularly contacted by distributors that are asking for supplier info such as W9, accounting and customer service contacts, etc. To me, this seems like unnecessary hoops to jump through for a simple online retail sale. But have you found success pursuing the distributor route for your products? I would like to avoid using them but at the same time, a sale is a sale? Thanks for any feedback. Really appreciate these videos!
Most agents at big distributors are just following their internal process of onboarding you. Filling out a W9 is a one time task that you can provide to any customer. In my early days, whenever they asked for company surveys and contacts, I put my name and company number in every blank and literally checked "no" to every question box. If they moved forward with a purchase, great! I'm onboard. If not, then their customer could only go direct to me. I'm pretty sure 100% of the completed forms went straight to a file without ever being reviewed. Having lots of distributors wanting to sell your products is a fantastic annoyance to have!
Do you recommend steel threaded inserts in the pallet to improve thread life for the clamps? Or do you screw the Mitee Bites directly to the aluminum pallet?
If there's a fastener that will be cycled in and out, like the clamp thread, there should be thread inserts for that hole. For the fixture rails that are stationary, threading into the aluminum is fine.
Yes but you'd still need another center piece to apply more force across the longer channel. With only 1 center, it would apply the same force to a wider face and holding power wouldn't increase.
I guess my biggest question, is why are you making this from round stock? If you used flat bar, cut to length with some excess, this would be a 2 operation mill part. Maybe I'm not seeing a feature but it looks like something that you could run from square stock...
As a customer of yours and someone who watches most of the videos you publish, I did watch it but somehow missed the 24 seconds where you explained why the round stock. Since I was at lunch while watching, I'm sure i had a distraction to help me miss it. Sorry to have questioned you before re-watching, but a little grace would have been appreciated in your response. As a fellow machine shop guy, I was only thinking of helping, so once again, sorry I missed it...
What about making a pallet out of 7075 Aluminum? Would that reduce flex? Another big item that you didn’t mention in your machining times was how long did it take to load two round bars in your vice per op vs loading a single pallet. Quite a bit of time savings there also. Being able to walk away from the machine for a good amount of time is valuable. I hate 3 to 8 min short cycle times on my 4th axis. Can’t walk away and do anything and keep the machine running.
7075 has nearly the identical modulus of elasticity as 6061 so the pallet wouldn't be that less flexible. And yes, the loading time of 2 parts in a vise compared to 18 parts on an identical pallet OUTSIDE of the machine is painful! Definitely can't get anything done with 5 min cycle times.
Awsome pallet. Do you have any videos on how to model a pallets in fusion? I've been wanting to get your products but modeling has been holding me back. Thanks for all good vids.
I wonder how this work flow compares to the doosan lathe. I would of those a bar fed lather would be walk away from the machine for as long as the bar feeder can be.
Pallets are definitely the faster way to make parts but walkaway time on a bar fed lathe is also tough to beat. BUT, we now keep the Doosan MX available for more complex parts. These simple rail parts kept an expensive lathe tied up.
Most of our parts are round, so always interested in different ways to hold round parts. How does this compare to the SMX output? Considering getting a Doosan MX for it's versatility.
I have some pallets than run an op1 of 48 small stainless steel parts, each of which has 5 precision bores, and it runs for 2.5 hours. Op2 is on another pallet, 24 parts at a time and requires 20 minutes. I’m at the machine less than once an hour. PPS all the way!
@@PiersonWorkholding It also constantly evolves. I just have a 3 axis machine with flood coolant. I quickly learned that I would need to do some gcode pass through in fusion to make some wash down routines to clear the pallet of chips between ops. Just keep making small improvements. You were the one that turned me on to Lean and life has never been the same.
8:19 OR make one very easy setup. free students change. quality OR u not have anytime do nothing just fix students mistakes. never cant even run machines just make setup. i could send cnc program on email and not even go work lol
![โรงเรียนห้ามรัก โดนจับได้ตาย...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4u02Sbr556Q/mqdefault.jpg)
✅ Get the Pro Pallet System as seen in this video 👉 piersonworkholding.com/pro-pallet-system/
I am pretty sure that this channel is the only one on TH-cam that I have watched EVERY single video because there is always so much great info and inspiration for the shop.
Wow, thank you! To train, equip and inspire is our mission as a company!
@@PiersonWorkholding the only thing I wish is that there was more videos but then if you did that the quality of the info would go down so I'm just going to shut my mouth and encourage you to keep doing what you are doing!
Lots of golden nuggets, if you actually pay attention.
100%
I sure wish they made more fixture Friday’s. Soooooo useful and a great sales nudge for their product.
I check for new vids weekly itching for more nuggets
@@brianwaayenberg3099 it's 1 of 3 channels that I have notifications on top be alerted for every new video drop
I highly recommend the podcast, been listening it from first episode, and i really makes my Mondays!
Great to hear! Thanks for watching.
Jay, Glad to see you putting out videos again! One topic that would be great to get your perspective on is the offline management of chips/coolant in your shop. Specifically relating to cleanliness of working with offline pallets. We are trying to think of clever ways to keep our pallet unload/load process as quick and clean as possible. We have some ideas, and are already using chip fans in the machines, but would love to hear from you on this as well.
We use air knives mounted to the side of our spindle to sweep chips. I'll make a video about it!
John spent 67 minutes watching TH-cam videos while the part was running.
. Those clamps put a lot of horizontal load and can move the horizontal x/y location around quite a bit.
My recommendation to buyers is don’t be cheap and get the smallest/thinnest pallet you can. Yes it’s cheaper and lighter. But an extra bit of meat goes a long way.
My first pallet experience I wish I had had an extra 0.5 or more heck 2”more width to resist the force of these clamps. Placing a part 1” sunk in and 1” above the pallet for op2 I could yaw the part rotationally with low clamping force as the pallet wall bowed. Keep it in mind! (My design fault, not a Pierson fault, their mini pallet product worked flawlessly! ) I left 0.5” of wall as a support and it was not nearly enough. Leave some meat, you can always remove it later if the pallet is to heavy!
Thanks again for the vids/great products Jhon!
props to your Worker
Indeed! John is the hero of the episode.
Excellent food for thought Jay.
Glad you think so!
Can you explain how that is actually a better way to make these than on your lathe?
With the lathe you get unattended runtime of (however many parts fit into a bar) * (how many bars are loaded in the feeder). I would guess that adds up to a lot more than fit on the fixture. You are also not spending 5-10 minutes of manual labor loading/unloading parts, not to mention the strain on operators of handling loaded pallets.
The biggest benefit for quality would be making a complete part every cycle. You would be able to observe and mitigate issues such as wear or broken tools before they cause parts to go out of spec. In the case of the pallet you have the potential to end up with a fully loaded pallet of bad parts PLUS a lost hour of runtime.
Obviously some nuances in how the lathe runs, and maybe its not profitable to run those ¢ types of parts on that kind of $$$ machine
Came here to ask the same question, unless it is more profitable because the lathe can make different parts the mill can’t
That's definitely a pleasant improvement to useful productivity!
Yes. The guys in the shop are thrilled!
good video Mr ,Pierson,,thanks for your time
Glad you enjoyed it
as always look forward to your clips, just a small growing business here trying to evolve cheers guys
You came to the right channel! We have lots more planned this year.
You can't just figure cycle time you also have to factor in unloading and loading the parts either in the machine vise or on a pallet. My guess is the pallet system is overall faster per part making it even a better outcome.
It tips even more in favor of the pallet! Loading and unloading vises is way slower than the pallet, plus you can have two pallets and just swap them and do the unloading and loading while the machine does another cycle.
Nice to see you again Jay. I always like it when you young Bucks come up with great ideas. Well done video. Give John a big “pat on the back”. How do We access this new platform?
Please make the podcast available on TH-cam.
Nice fixture there!
Idea for the "knive makers method" in the second op:
Why don't you make a second op fixture plate similar to your current one, but with the exact same part positions as on the first op.
Then you could leave your OP10 parts clamped while you put the empty second op fixture on top. Then screw all the parts in from the top into the finished threads without having to hold the plate and fiddling around the workpiece and screws from two sides. Since the position of the parts is still given by the OP10 fixture this should be a lot easier.
Calling it the "contact grill method" :D
Yes! We call that a "transfer pallet" FF 27 will show that method.
Jay, I am curious what your approach is when you are trying to sell your own product through your own website but are regularly contacted by distributors that are asking for supplier info such as W9, accounting and customer service contacts, etc. To me, this seems like unnecessary hoops to jump through for a simple online retail sale. But have you found success pursuing the distributor route for your products? I would like to avoid using them but at the same time, a sale is a sale? Thanks for any feedback. Really appreciate these videos!
Most agents at big distributors are just following their internal process of onboarding you. Filling out a W9 is a one time task that you can provide to any customer. In my early days, whenever they asked for company surveys and contacts, I put my name and company number in every blank and literally checked "no" to every question box. If they moved forward with a purchase, great! I'm onboard. If not, then their customer could only go direct to me. I'm pretty sure 100% of the completed forms went straight to a file without ever being reviewed. Having lots of distributors wanting to sell your products is a fantastic annoyance to have!
You are the man
Do you recommend steel threaded inserts in the pallet to improve thread life for the clamps? Or do you screw the Mitee Bites directly to the aluminum pallet?
If there's a fastener that will be cycled in and out, like the clamp thread, there should be thread inserts for that hole. For the fixture rails that are stationary, threading into the aluminum is fine.
i think you can get the exanding clamps same size but longer so you'd get more surface area but no row losses
Yes but you'd still need another center piece to apply more force across the longer channel. With only 1 center, it would apply the same force to a wider face and holding power wouldn't increase.
6:48 my dumbass heard boeing lmao
I guess my biggest question, is why are you making this from round stock? If you used flat bar, cut to length with some excess, this would be a 2 operation mill part. Maybe I'm not seeing a feature but it looks like something that you could run from square stock...
I answered that at 4:23 and it's still a 2 Op mill part. Did you even watch the video?
As a customer of yours and someone who watches most of the videos you publish, I did watch it but somehow missed the 24 seconds where you explained why the round stock. Since I was at lunch while watching, I'm sure i had a distraction to help me miss it. Sorry to have questioned you before re-watching, but a little grace would have been appreciated in your response. As a fellow machine shop guy, I was only thinking of helping, so once again, sorry I missed it...
What about making a pallet out of 7075 Aluminum? Would that reduce flex? Another big item that you didn’t mention in your machining times was how long did it take to load two round bars in your vice per op vs loading a single pallet. Quite a bit of time savings there also. Being able to walk away from the machine for a good amount of time is valuable. I hate 3 to 8 min short cycle times on my 4th axis. Can’t walk away and do anything and keep the machine running.
7075 has nearly the identical modulus of elasticity as 6061 so the pallet wouldn't be that less flexible. And yes, the loading time of 2 parts in a vise compared to 18 parts on an identical pallet OUTSIDE of the machine is painful! Definitely can't get anything done with 5 min cycle times.
Awsome pallet. Do you have any videos on how to model a pallets in fusion? I've been wanting to get your products but modeling has been holding me back. Thanks for all good vids.
That's a great topic. Yes, we have 3 videos planned this year for modelling tips.
@@PiersonWorkholding Awsome can't wait!
I wonder how this work flow compares to the doosan lathe. I would of those a bar fed lather would be walk away from the machine for as long as the bar feeder can be.
Pallets are definitely the faster way to make parts but walkaway time on a bar fed lathe is also tough to beat. BUT, we now keep the Doosan MX available for more complex parts. These simple rail parts kept an expensive lathe tied up.
Most of our parts are round, so always interested in different ways to hold round parts. How does this compare to the SMX output? Considering getting a Doosan MX for it's versatility.
An MX is a great machine for 1 and done parts but it doesn't compete in terms of throughput compared to palletized workholding in a VMC.
@@PiersonWorkholding I dream of having one and done parts. Too much swapping currently.
Great stuff. But I cant get parts with qty's over 2-4. I dont know where everyone else seems to get volume work> Doesnt seem to exist in MA
Oh, I've got a great solution for low quantity work in the next Fixture Friday! Subscribe or stay tuned!
I have some pallets than run an op1 of 48 small stainless steel parts, each of which has 5 precision bores, and it runs for 2.5 hours. Op2 is on another pallet, 24 parts at a time and requires 20 minutes. I’m at the machine less than once an hour. PPS all the way!
You get it!!!!
@@PiersonWorkholding It also constantly evolves. I just have a 3 axis machine with flood coolant. I quickly learned that I would need to do some gcode pass through in fusion to make some wash down routines to clear the pallet of chips between ops. Just keep making small improvements. You were the one that turned me on to Lean and life has never been the same.
Wow 22 seconds ago uploaded !!
Hey, very nice video.
Could do you a Video of Programming multiple fixture on Fusion 360?
Definitely! It's on the to-do list.
How do you find people like John? Asking for a friend...
The sunbeams and sparkles made his application stand out 👉 2:36
C'mon bro, today is Monday 😁
Lol, but I filmed it on a Friday. Still counts?
8:19 OR make one very easy setup. free students change. quality OR u not have anytime do nothing just fix students mistakes. never cant even run machines just make setup. i could send cnc program on email and not even go work lol
This live stream is a 100% crypto scam
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