I want to thank you again for another great video. Lots of good tips and general information. I would love to find a system 1 Gottlieb to repair. Regards Skeeter.
Thank you Joe for your straightforward explanation on testing these boards. I'm going to follow your instruction with a Sinbad I'm trying to resurrect!
Watched this again since I just got 1979 The Incredible Hulk. The only information I had was it quit working years ago and was stored in the home. Original boards, remote battery with 16 yr old batteries and no ground mods so started at the cord. Power voltages good, usually boots up, new batteries, audits reset, gi lights work, displays work, solenoid test works lights, sounds work, only kicks ball out. Briefly once got pop bumpers to kick and flippers to work so started a game that one time? Going to pull the solenoid board and test transisters, rebuild power supply, do all ground mods and add 2 fuses to small transformer per pinwiki. Perhaps will have to buy CPU, but since it boots will do this first. I am new at this so thanks for your videos! Think I am on the right path. Playfield, cabinet and backglass all look fairly decent, dirty.
That's a very cool game. Yes go ahead and do what you mentioned, there are two caps in the reset section of the MPU that probably need to be replaced too if I remember they're blue and square almost right in the middle of the board by the reset button. Check out www.PinRepair.com he does a big section on Gottlieb system 1's and mentions those reset caps....
Nice repar on boards connectors, i have gottlieb spring break sys80B and it have same problems with edge connectors that I have repair...and it work fine now 👍
Thanks Joe, learning from you... I watched the Black Knight video from 2021 and when you tested the power supply coming off the transformer you just tested pin 9 and 10 to see if you had 90 volts AC and did the same to test the other voltages... But on this video you test to see if we are getting 69 volts between 6 and 7. But then ground comes into the testing for the other voltages. Why? And as always, thank you.
Man I like your vids, watched all in order and up to date now. Great stuff. I do appreciate your time however I would thoroughly enjoy watching you physically doing the repairs in true time. Either way I’ll be watching...just a suggestion. Keep up the great work and thanks for posting.
XENON1980 unfortunately when you do everything on camera the peanut gallery criticizes everything you do if it’s not their preferred way of doing it. ESPECIALLY the pinball guys. So I try to just explain it the best I can as I go along... I’ll try to film more of it though
Joe's Classic Video Games it's totally understandable from your end... it’s a shame that people can’t fathom that we all have our own way of doing things and we could all learn off one another. Like I previously mentioned,love your vids and will be watching either way 👍🏽
would you say adding diodes to the driver board is essential? I have a perfectly working Totem machine it still has the original driver board without any changes done to the transistors
If you've got a Totem it's probably got the diodes built into the board... Look in the top right hand corner of the driver board and see if there's 4 small diodes. It's not essential, if the transistors fail it may damage one of the buffer chips on the cpu but it won't usually damage the spider chips, the buffer chips can be easily replaced.
hey great video! i have a buck rogers that im working on, have done all 3 ground mods, still at square one tho. When i turn it on the displays just stay at 0000, lights and attract sounds work, but i cant start a game and the game won't accept credits anymore. Flippers and pop bumpers never worked either. Any quick words of wisdom?
I might not see the reply so you might have to email me but when you first turn it on, does it immediately come up to 0's or does it wait 2 seconds or so? If it's immediately coming up to 0's your main pcb still isnt' booting, you may need to replace the two square caps (box caps) in the reset section. Check this out: www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm
I did not see if you replaced the power supply second capacitor. 200uf 50VDC. Does it make sense to replace this regardless or do you only replace it if you have an issue getting 60V to the display. Iooked at Clays site and I do not see that he recommends replacing it but there is a lot there and I could have missed it.
I would probably usually replace it while you're in there, might as well if you're ordering parts for it. I think I just didn't have that one in stock, a 220uf 50v would be the modern equivalent, you might not be able to find a 200uf. If that cap goes bad it's likely just going to allow ripple on the line for those displays, so you may see them flicker slowly.
I agree great video! I have a sinbad that the input voltage on pin 5 is 4.32V the rest of the pins are at what's expected. Does this mean I have a bad small transformer?
I have a totem pinball CPU board and the battery and holer is completely gone I don't know what it looks like other then what's in your video Are the CPU board repairable or is it better to try and by a new one
So, I'm having this issue where, while on a testbench the board lights up but seems to be locking out. I'm using an ATX power supply for -12 +5v and i get -10,9V and 4,8V on the capacitors. I have pulse on TC2, same as the crystal. I have checked Z29, Z27, Z9, Z28, Z8 and they were OK. Now I'm checking Z6 abd Z7 and get 5V on all inputs and outputs. In the meantime I have attached an "alive" led on pin15 on Z16 and it lights up immediately What's causing it, is it the power supply or U4 went byebye?
I sometimes make up little jigs for testing in awkward places, or palces where pins are close together, to avoid the shorting issue. This one doesn't look too bad for testing though. It would be awkward with one hand though.
Hey Joe, I have a CPU board with battery corrosion that has gotten everywhere, including the spider chip you mentioned, Is it still worth trying to see if it'll work or does that usually mean the board is a goner?
Yeah, I'd say that's actually decent Craig, it's hard to repair them even if it's pretty straight forward and you know it's one of the spider chips or something. Not really a great design!
My mom found someone selling a Count-Down pinball machine on facebook's market place for $250. She and her fiance went to check it out and bought it. The guy selling it said that the balls don't feed in correctly. There's probably going to be more problems with it, but I won't know until tomorrow.
It will be identical to this one, just walk through it like this one in the video and you should be able to figure it out. My 'assumption' would be that the main pcb doesn't boot and that the game isnt' feeding any balls at all because it's not up and running... first thing to check for is tons of battery damage from leaking alkaline at the bottom of the main pcb at the top left of the backbox. Typically on these you need to buy a new main pcb, they're about $200 and called a "Ni-Wumpf" replacement board. you may be able to fix your original one though if it's not too bad but it's kind of a mixed bag. I've got a countdown gameplay video on here somewhere, really fun game and even if you have to buy a new board it'll be a good deal.
@@LyonsArcade I managed to look inside today. The first thing i did was remove the battery. The battery has not leaked nor are there any signs of corrosion. One of the yellow drop targets is broken. The right coin slot was jammed with a bunch of coins (some rare). The scores and status don't light up. The speaker makes a constant buzz sound when it's plugged in. Only the blue drop targets reset. Can only start a game by opening the coin door, pressing the service button and have to power the machine off and back on again to play again. Flippers and the pop bumper work just fine. Playfield lights don't lite. After about 10-15 minutes there was an electrical smell so I shut it down and unplugged it (I had a transformer blow up when I was repairing one of my Bally Astrocades.) There's probably more things.
Gotta get that power supply right first, I'll bet there's a voltage missing keeping the displays off (or a blown fuse). Todd Tuckey @ TNT says he just replaces the power supplies in all the System 1 machines, we rebuild them because it's a little cheaper that way but for an individual you may be better off buying a new one, I think they're $60 or so.
@@LyonsArcade So I found out the problem is less complicated. It mainly needs new capacitors just like my Astrocade that I fixed. (and unlike my Astrocade the transformer didn't blow up requiring me to build a new power supply.)
Great Video Thank you. I have a project System 1 game that I just started working on. The power supply output voltage is all good except for the high voltage side (no 60 or 42 VDC) any thoughts where to look? Input voltage across pins 6 & 7 is 74V Thanks
You have to be careful when you measure those, they use a different ground than the other voltages... make sure you measure them with the ground right beside them on that same connector. When you turn the game on, do you see anything on the displays?
better use a "glas fiber brush", not sand paper, like this: www.amazon.de/s?k=Glasfaserpinsel that is less destructing then sandpaper and easier to clean the pins and legs of the resistors and so on ;)
I love the old Gottliebs, but there is no denying the fact that Rockwell really screwed Gottlieb over with the piss poor design of the electronics, especially the system 1. System 80 was better, but it still had some pretty severe flaws that the Bally, Stern, and Williams MPU's didn't suffer from. I used to love buying, fixing, and flipping the system 80 pins because they were VERY cool games that were usually in great shape because they rarely worked. It's a shame that Gottlieb was ultimately doomed because the system 1 and system 80 weren't very reliable because the system 3 was nearly bulletproof, but by then a LOT of operators simply didn't trust Gottlieb any more. It's a shame because their EM's were VERY solid as well. Obviously, you can modify both to make them reliable. I've bulletproofed a bunch of system 80's over the years. Once you tie the grounds together, address the connectors and rebuild the power supply (and do a few other minor modifications) they're just as reliable as anything else from the early SS era. Great video on repairing a system 1 by the way! Even if the boards are junk, the games are VERY much worth repairing and saving. There are quite a few system 1 Gottliebs that are a lot of fun to play.
Lol .. They used a connector where they should've soldered and soldered where they should've used a connector. Wow. Even using the connector... At least they could've mounted it and made it look nice instead of leaving it hanging all willynilly!
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I want to thank you again for another great video. Lots of good tips and general information. I would love to find a system 1 Gottlieb to repair.
Regards Skeeter.
Skeeter I really like these System 1's, they don't get any respect! Thanks for watching as always!
Thank you Joe for your straightforward explanation on testing these boards. I'm going to follow your instruction with a Sinbad I'm trying to resurrect!
You can do it Tyson, also check out www.PinRepair.com if you read through his System 1 section you'll figure out how to get yours back up and running!
This is why the internet was made...fantastic content! Great video!
Thank you Silly Sausage, more repair stuff soon.
Watched this again since I just got 1979 The Incredible Hulk. The only information I had was it quit working years ago and was stored in the home. Original boards, remote battery with 16 yr old batteries and no ground mods so started at the cord. Power voltages good, usually boots up, new batteries, audits reset, gi lights work, displays work, solenoid test works lights, sounds work, only kicks ball out. Briefly once got pop bumpers to kick and flippers to work so started a game that one time? Going to pull the solenoid board and test transisters, rebuild power supply, do all ground mods and add 2 fuses to small transformer per pinwiki. Perhaps will have to buy CPU, but since it boots will do this first. I am new at this so thanks for your videos! Think I am on the right path. Playfield, cabinet and backglass all look fairly decent, dirty.
That's a very cool game. Yes go ahead and do what you mentioned, there are two caps in the reset section of the MPU that probably need to be replaced too if I remember they're blue and square almost right in the middle of the board by the reset button. Check out www.PinRepair.com he does a big section on Gottlieb system 1's and mentions those reset caps....
Nice repar on boards connectors, i have gottlieb spring break sys80B and it have same problems with edge connectors that I have repair...and it work fine now 👍
Yeah Gottlieb and their weird ways :)
Super cool!
Thanks, more videos soon!
Heck ya.... I love you repair videos thanks for sharing
Thanks! See you on the next one...
Awesome video, thanks for sharing, Love watching your repair videos !!
Thanks Jonathan, we appreciate it!
This is a great Video, thanks. I have a joker poker thats playing games but i have no displays what should i be looking at???
Thanks Joe, learning from you... I watched the Black Knight video from 2021 and when you tested the power supply coming off the transformer you just tested pin 9 and 10 to see if you had 90 volts AC and did the same to test the other voltages... But on this video you test to see if we are getting 69 volts between 6 and 7. But then ground comes into the testing for the other voltages. Why? And as always, thank you.
Man I like your vids, watched all in order and up to date now. Great stuff. I do appreciate your time however I would thoroughly enjoy watching you physically doing the repairs in true time.
Either way I’ll be watching...just a suggestion.
Keep up the great work and thanks for posting.
XENON1980 unfortunately when you do everything on camera the peanut gallery criticizes everything you do if it’s not their preferred way of doing it. ESPECIALLY the pinball guys. So I try to just explain it the best I can as I go along... I’ll try to film more of it though
Joe's Classic Video Games it's totally understandable from your end... it’s a shame that people can’t fathom that we all have our own way of doing things and we could all learn off one another. Like I previously mentioned,love your vids and will be watching either way 👍🏽
would you say adding diodes to the driver board is essential? I have a perfectly working Totem machine it still has the original driver board without any changes done to the transistors
If you've got a Totem it's probably got the diodes built into the board... Look in the top right hand corner of the driver board and see if there's 4 small diodes. It's not essential, if the transistors fail it may damage one of the buffer chips on the cpu but it won't usually damage the spider chips, the buffer chips can be easily replaced.
hey great video! i have a buck rogers that im working on, have done all 3 ground mods, still at square one tho.
When i turn it on the displays just stay at 0000, lights and attract sounds work, but i cant start a game and the game won't accept credits anymore. Flippers and pop bumpers never worked either. Any quick words of wisdom?
I might not see the reply so you might have to email me but when you first turn it on, does it immediately come up to 0's or does it wait 2 seconds or so? If it's immediately coming up to 0's your main pcb still isnt' booting, you may need to replace the two square caps (box caps) in the reset section. Check this out: www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm
I did not see if you replaced the power supply second capacitor. 200uf 50VDC. Does it make sense to replace this regardless or do you only replace it if you have an issue getting 60V to the display. Iooked at Clays site and I do not see that he recommends replacing it but there is a lot there and I could have missed it.
I would probably usually replace it while you're in there, might as well if you're ordering parts for it. I think I just didn't have that one in stock, a 220uf 50v would be the modern equivalent, you might not be able to find a 200uf. If that cap goes bad it's likely just going to allow ripple on the line for those displays, so you may see them flicker slowly.
Thanx
I agree great video! I have a sinbad that the input voltage on pin 5 is 4.32V the rest of the pins are at what's expected. Does this mean I have a bad small transformer?
I have a totem pinball CPU board and the battery and holer is completely gone I don't know what it looks like other then what's in your video
Are the CPU board repairable or is it better to try and by a new one
So, I'm having this issue where, while on a testbench the board lights up but seems to be locking out.
I'm using an ATX power supply for -12 +5v and i get -10,9V and 4,8V on the capacitors.
I have pulse on TC2, same as the crystal. I have checked Z29, Z27, Z9, Z28, Z8 and they were OK. Now I'm checking Z6 abd Z7 and get 5V on all inputs and outputs. In the meantime I have attached an "alive" led on pin15 on Z16 and it lights up immediately
What's causing it, is it the power supply or U4 went byebye?
I sometimes make up little jigs for testing in awkward places, or palces where pins are close together, to avoid the shorting issue. This one doesn't look too bad for testing though. It would be awkward with one hand though.
I don't always do the best practices when I'm filming, LOL
Hi Joe. Great video. Do you know how to test the CPU board? Thanks!
There is a guide on how to do it on www.PinRepair.com
Hey Joe, I have a CPU board with battery corrosion that has gotten everywhere, including the spider chip you mentioned, Is it still worth trying to see if it'll work or does that usually mean the board is a goner?
also how would you test that spider chip?
Good job. My restore rate of system 1 boards is about 2 to 5. They are a mess.
Yeah, I'd say that's actually decent Craig, it's hard to repair them even if it's pretty straight forward and you know it's one of the spider chips or something. Not really a great design!
My mom found someone selling a Count-Down pinball machine on facebook's market place for $250. She and her fiance went to check it out and bought it. The guy selling it said that the balls don't feed in correctly. There's probably going to be more problems with it, but I won't know until tomorrow.
It will be identical to this one, just walk through it like this one in the video and you should be able to figure it out.
My 'assumption' would be that the main pcb doesn't boot and that the game isnt' feeding any balls at all because it's not up and running... first thing to check for is tons of battery damage from leaking alkaline at the bottom of the main pcb at the top left of the backbox. Typically on these you need to buy a new main pcb, they're about $200 and called a "Ni-Wumpf" replacement board. you may be able to fix your original one though if it's not too bad but it's kind of a mixed bag.
I've got a countdown gameplay video on here somewhere, really fun game and even if you have to buy a new board it'll be a good deal.
@@LyonsArcade I managed to look inside today. The first thing i did was remove the battery. The battery has not leaked nor are there any signs of corrosion. One of the yellow drop targets is broken. The right coin slot was jammed with a bunch of coins (some rare). The scores and status don't light up. The speaker makes a constant buzz sound when it's plugged in. Only the blue drop targets reset. Can only start a game by opening the coin door, pressing the service button and have to power the machine off and back on again to play again. Flippers and the pop bumper work just fine. Playfield lights don't lite. After about 10-15 minutes there was an electrical smell so I shut it down and unplugged it (I had a transformer blow up when I was repairing one of my Bally Astrocades.) There's probably more things.
Gotta get that power supply right first, I'll bet there's a voltage missing keeping the displays off (or a blown fuse). Todd Tuckey @ TNT says he just replaces the power supplies in all the System 1 machines, we rebuild them because it's a little cheaper that way but for an individual you may be better off buying a new one, I think they're $60 or so.
@@LyonsArcade My mom said the display worked at the-guy-they-bought-it-from's house.
@@LyonsArcade So I found out the problem is less complicated. It mainly needs new capacitors just like my Astrocade that I fixed. (and unlike my Astrocade the transformer didn't blow up requiring me to build a new power supply.)
Great Video Thank you. I have a project System 1 game that I just started working on. The power supply output voltage is all good except for the high voltage side (no 60 or 42 VDC) any thoughts where to look? Input voltage across pins 6 & 7 is 74V Thanks
You have to be careful when you measure those, they use a different ground than the other voltages... make sure you measure them with the ground right beside them on that same connector. When you turn the game on, do you see anything on the displays?
MAYBE one of these days you can show us how you change a capacitor just one so we now how to do it correctly
13:47 "The bigger the gob the better the job!"
Haha they were definitely a proponent of that :)
@@LyonsArcade The 1 thumbs down must have been solder guy.
Hi Joe! Can you direct me where can i found a schematic for a Gottlieb Genie..? Thanks!
@@googpix540 thx, by now i sold that machine... Anyway thank you!
Diodes - so they are in series and could be soldered in the wire btween the boards
Yes, they could!
better use a "glas fiber brush", not sand paper, like this:
www.amazon.de/s?k=Glasfaserpinsel
that is less destructing then sandpaper
and easier to clean the pins and legs of the resistors and so on ;)
That's what we usually use, this was pretty severe though....
I love the old Gottliebs, but there is no denying the fact that Rockwell really screwed Gottlieb over with the piss poor design of the electronics, especially the system 1. System 80 was better, but it still had some pretty severe flaws that the Bally, Stern, and Williams MPU's didn't suffer from. I used to love buying, fixing, and flipping the system 80 pins because they were VERY cool games that were usually in great shape because they rarely worked. It's a shame that Gottlieb was ultimately doomed because the system 1 and system 80 weren't very reliable because the system 3 was nearly bulletproof, but by then a LOT of operators simply didn't trust Gottlieb any more. It's a shame because their EM's were VERY solid as well. Obviously, you can modify both to make them reliable. I've bulletproofed a bunch of system 80's over the years. Once you tie the grounds together, address the connectors and rebuild the power supply (and do a few other minor modifications) they're just as reliable as anything else from the early SS era. Great video on repairing a system 1 by the way! Even if the boards are junk, the games are VERY much worth repairing and saving. There are quite a few system 1 Gottliebs that are a lot of fun to play.
Lol .. They used a connector where they should've soldered and soldered where they should've used a connector. Wow. Even using the connector... At least they could've mounted it and made it look nice instead of leaving it hanging all willynilly!
It's pretty wild!