My father,who served with the South African Forces in North Africa, said their armoured cars were issued with the Boyes gun.The first thing they did was abandon it and have captured Italian Breda 20mm guns mounted in their cars.
Quick correction on the HEAT warhead it doesn’t melt through the armour, the jet still acts as a kinetic energy penetrator: “the shaped charge does not depend in any way on heating or melting for its effectiveness; that is, the jet from a shaped charge does not melt its way through armor, as its effect is purely kinetic”
you must not have heard, but Australian troops used Boys rifles to shoot snipers in New Guinea who had taken cover behind solid jungle trees. 303 rounds could get them out of coconut trees but failed on the large hardwood trees. The Boys rifles must have been a very unpleasant surprise to the Japanese. Japanese tanks were very thin-skinned too.
Yeah, I think we’ve heard that about the Australian use against snipers. We can’t capture every story about a weapon though, particularly when it’s not about the country or location we’re discussing. This vid was the context of the game. We will do some wider videos on the Boys in the future and will try to cover the Australian use a bit more.
A friend who was with the New Zealand army on Crete told me he had used a BOYS rifle firing at a house sheltering German Paratroopers. He said he was not sure hit hit any of them but they sure scattered for cover. He also said it was effective on the engines of light vehicles.
Thanks very much Richard, Matt and team. That was interesting and informative. My late father once told me that his cousin, who had served with Field Artillery in France in 1940, once used a Boys in action. This was not against a tank but against an enemy sniper, who did not trouble them again. The Boys was used because no other small arms were to hand. PS from only looking at bullet mass and muzzle velocity, the recoil impulse from the Boys is about five times that of the SMLE.
@@vickersmg Well physics says it's about four times the bullet weight at about 125% of the velocity. However, the manual may be referring to either "recoil energy" or "felt recoil" which are both alternative measures of recoil.
The jet from a HEAT round does not melt the armour, it actually punches through like a solid using kinetic energy which confuses some as it is not classed as a kinetic round. Folk get hung up on the words (I bet someone's already said that).
The PIAT certainly appeared in Korea with 29th Infantry Brigade, before the adoption of the US bazooka during that conflict. The 17pdr, which had become the Bn. level AT gun by that point also saw service out there, but the scarcity of enemy armour and difficulty of the terrain relegated the guns to a secondary role, with one account I've read mentioning a gun being dragged out of storage to dispose of a particularly awkward enemy observation post by direct fire. I believe one occasion of the Boys bring used in the abti-material role was by the Commandos during the Dieppe raid, where it was used to engage AA gun positions, i.i.r.c.. I have an unpublished personal account from an infantryman in 11th Armoured Div., which mentions his company getting systematically blasted out of their positions by a German tank standing off as the battalion AT guns weren't forward yet. At one point an officer came running over to say he wanted a couple of men to grab a PIAT and stalk the tank, he was told in no uncertain terms that he was welcome to go and stalk it himself if he wanted. Evebtually a couple of men agreed to go with him and they set out, only for him to come running back a few minutes later, minus the PIAT and two men.
I saw a displayed Victoria Cross of a man from my city who fought off around 2 tanks and 30-40 Panzergrenadiers by himself with a PIAT and a Thompson while attempting to secure a river crossing in Italy. It must be bordering on the insane to have to shoot a PIAT multiple times with that weight and kick, especially when you have to do it by yourself after your friend is wounded and out of action (which is what that VC winner had to do), and fighting off enemy infantry on top of that too.
Sounds like Francis Jefferson from Bolton who won the VC at Monte Casino in 1944. Very simple man who never made much of it but his VC was stolen when he was staying at his mother's house in Bolton in 1982 and it's never been recovered . He died a few months afterwards the comparatively young age of 61 It's thought partly from depression.
@@freebeerfordworkers It was actually Ernest A. Smith, his VC was not stolen and is on display. As mentioned, he fought off around two tanks almost by himself and held off a panzergrenadier platoon.
@@HaloFTW55 I took the trouble to look him up he seems to be one hell of a man promoted and demoted about nine times. Glad to read that after leaving the service he was able to settle down and have a long and happy life. His daughters donation of his VC to the museum is commendable they're worth tens of thousands of pounds or dollars to collectors.
I used to work with on old guy who had been a sergeant in the Indian Army. He told me that they used the Boys anti-tank rifle for dislodging concealed snipers in tne rocky terrain of the North West Frontier, where there was always resistance to the presnce of British rule. If they were lucky the round would blast aside the sniper's cover or, at least, sca re the s**t out of him. It was not a popular weapon as it had to be carried by hand if mules weren't available.
My dad who fought in WW 11 said the boys rifle recoil was brutal. That said he was 5'9 and around 10 stone. The PIAT he was issued with, he hated! Die to his light weight the weapon sometimes did not recock and he was too short by 1/2" to manually reset. He was strong enough to compress the spring but it would not latch. Thankfully he said ,there was plenty of Typhoons to sort out enemy tanks
The Boys A/T was not so good on tanks but my Father did see his M/T Sergeant in 9KRRC shoot down an Me bf109 with one in Greece. He could still mention that event in his 80’s! It was fired off a sandbag in a quarry.
@@vickersmg What you must remember with the Greek campaign is that a noticeable part of the British division was TA and they were allied to amazing ANZAC troops against SS divisions who were quite badly mauled while advancing against a fighting retreat.
My dad was an infantry sgt during WWII and was also a marksman. When he was still a L/Cpl he was given a Boys anti - tank rifle to play with. He absolutely hated the recoil. Fortunately, he was given the role of BREN gunner.
What about the Winchester .50 BMG anti-tank rifle designed for the UK? Looked a lot like an overgrown M-1 Carbine. Both of these rifles paired with an oversized rifle grenade would have been effective well into the late war period and could double as snoper and anti-material rifles as well
Well it likely helped but still left a significant effect. One commenter here calculated that the power of the round was likely five times as much as 303 yet the manual says the recoil was only twice as much so perhaps the weight of the gun absorbed three times the power of 303 but no more.
A loaded PIAT weighs about the same as a Browning 1919A6 "LMG" which tells you what an impractical turd that particular MG was. Unsurprisingly not seen again in Korea unlike the PIAT. PIAT was still floating about with territorial battalions in to the late 60s apparently with no interim weapon between it and the Gustav.
@@vickersmgeven us Cadets in 1972 borrowed and used the 3.5 inch Rocket Launcher, (with dummy heads, (were they wooden?) ), on the range at Pirbright. They seemed to still be available if needed by real soldiers, even then.
Yes we’re not suggested the 3.5-inch RL disappeared straight away but the PIAT was obsolete from 31st August 1956 so there would have been no authorisation for ammunition or even proofing old stocks. I think those ancient corporals were spinning a yarn!
Thank you for this excellent presentation; please; there is no need to go into your bona fides to how or why you possess these articles of history; No government/king/queen should dictate what a person of no conviction of maleficence or of criminal history; may not own said article. again thank you for these videos; they are informative, fun and intriguing with facts I was not aware of.
Hopefully you’ve seen the video where we explain the requirements for section 5. If not, it’s on the channel now. We don’t get into the politics of it as we’re not here for that but it explains the practicalities and the differences between it and other systems.
The PIAT was just a bad path to go down while everyone was progressing into the path of rockets and to a lesser extent recoilless rifles the Brit’s hit a dead end with this monstrosity. Ridiculously heavy, short ranged, an impractical mechanical trigger and launcher, couldn’t be pointed downhill
Well you can subscribe with a metric thumbs up too. The USA would be quite a big 1% in your calculation as well. BTW, we take a very flexible approach to metric and imperial and often use both. www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/2otfbry1cfo71.png
My father,who served with the South African Forces in North Africa, said their armoured cars were issued with the Boyes gun.The first thing they did was abandon it and have captured Italian Breda 20mm guns mounted in their cars.
Quick correction on the HEAT warhead it doesn’t melt through the armour, the jet still acts as a kinetic energy penetrator:
“the shaped charge does not depend in any way on heating or melting for its effectiveness; that is, the jet from a shaped charge does not melt its way through armor, as its effect is purely kinetic”
Thanks! One for @thearmourersbench. - Rich.
Loved doing this series. Adam's done a great job pullung our ramblings together.
Production superstar @blackmoreheal.
The Hell Let Loose series has been very informative so far, and this episode didn't disappoint.
Pleased you think so Phil. Sneak preview of the SMG firing at the end too. That will be a good one.
@@vickersmg I'm sure that's a Lanchester SMG shown in the the preview. There's not much out there on that particular weapon.
There will be more! One of our members is focussing their research on them.
you must not have heard, but Australian troops used Boys rifles to shoot snipers in New Guinea who had taken cover behind solid jungle trees. 303 rounds could get them out of coconut trees but failed on the large hardwood trees. The Boys rifles must have been a very unpleasant surprise to the Japanese. Japanese tanks were very thin-skinned too.
Yeah, I think we’ve heard that about the Australian use against snipers. We can’t capture every story about a weapon though, particularly when it’s not about the country or location we’re discussing. This vid was the context of the game. We will do some wider videos on the Boys in the future and will try to cover the Australian use a bit more.
A friend who was with the New Zealand army on Crete told me he had used a BOYS rifle firing at a house sheltering German Paratroopers. He said he was not sure hit hit any of them but they sure scattered for cover. He also said it was effective on the engines of light vehicles.
I’m sure it worked well against that kind of building!
Thanks very much Richard, Matt and team. That was interesting and informative. My late father once told me that his cousin, who had served with Field Artillery in France in 1940, once used a Boys in action. This was not against a tank but against an enemy sniper, who did not trouble them again. The Boys was used because no other small arms were to hand.
PS from only looking at bullet mass and muzzle velocity, the recoil impulse from the Boys is about five times that of the SMLE.
Thanks Derek. The manuals say ‘twice’ that of the SMLE presumably the bigger frame and bipod absorbed some of it.
@@vickersmg Well physics says it's about four times the bullet weight at about 125% of the velocity. However, the manual may be referring to either "recoil energy" or "felt recoil" which are both alternative measures of recoil.
its spelled BOYES
It’s not. Watch the video. Try again.
The jet from a HEAT round does not melt the armour, it actually punches through like a solid using kinetic energy which confuses some as it is not classed as a kinetic round. Folk get hung up on the words (I bet someone's already said that).
Thanks for that. It’s been mentioned. One for @thearmourersbench.
By luck I got an opportunity to fire a Boys rifle. However not something I wold like to repeat often lol.
This one was borrowed from one of members who fires it regularly. Self-regulating in that the ammunition normally has to be reloaded by them too.
The PIAT certainly appeared in Korea with 29th Infantry Brigade, before the adoption of the US bazooka during that conflict. The 17pdr, which had become the Bn. level AT gun by that point also saw service out there, but the scarcity of enemy armour and difficulty of the terrain relegated the guns to a secondary role, with one account I've read mentioning a gun being dragged out of storage to dispose of a particularly awkward enemy observation post by direct fire. I believe one occasion of the Boys bring used in the abti-material role was by the Commandos during the Dieppe raid, where it was used to engage AA gun positions, i.i.r.c.. I have an unpublished personal account from an infantryman in 11th Armoured Div., which mentions his company getting systematically blasted out of their positions by a German tank standing off as the battalion AT guns weren't forward yet. At one point an officer came running over to say he wanted a couple of men to grab a PIAT and stalk the tank, he was told in no uncertain terms that he was welcome to go and stalk it himself if he wanted. Evebtually a couple of men agreed to go with him and they set out, only for him to come running back a few minutes later, minus the PIAT and two men.
Yeah the PIAT pops up in Korea quite a bit. There’s some good late war use of the Boys to explore at some point as well!
@@vickersmg boyes not boys
You're very very wrong. Major Boys was a person and it was named after him.
@@josephberrie9550 the original technical drawings and parts lists, which can be found with an internet search all clearly state 'Boys'.
We’ve only ever found one example of it spelt ‘Boyes’ on a contemporary document and that was an informal piece if I remember rightly - Rich.
I saw a displayed Victoria Cross of a man from my city who fought off around 2 tanks and 30-40 Panzergrenadiers by himself with a PIAT and a Thompson while attempting to secure a river crossing in Italy. It must be bordering on the insane to have to shoot a PIAT multiple times with that weight and kick, especially when you have to do it by yourself after your friend is wounded and out of action (which is what that VC winner had to do), and fighting off enemy infantry on top of that too.
Those VC actions are all incredible in their own way!
Sounds like Francis Jefferson from Bolton who won the VC at Monte Casino in 1944. Very simple man who never made much of it but his VC was stolen when he was staying at his mother's house in Bolton in 1982 and it's never been recovered . He died a few months afterwards the comparatively young age of 61 It's thought partly from depression.
@@freebeerfordworkers It was actually Ernest A. Smith, his VC was not stolen and is on display. As mentioned, he fought off around two tanks almost by himself and held off a panzergrenadier platoon.
@@HaloFTW55 Very similar action to Jefferson I thought it might have been on display for some time and stolen when it was returned to him.
@@HaloFTW55 I took the trouble to look him up he seems to be one hell of a man promoted and demoted about nine times. Glad to read that after leaving the service he was able to settle down and have a long and happy life. His daughters donation of his VC to the museum is commendable they're worth tens of thousands of pounds or dollars to collectors.
Nice overview of both weapons systems outside the game (IRL) and inside the game.
Thanks Charles. Much appreciated.
Enjoying these videos Rich, good stuff!
That’s great! Thanks Jack. SMG video coming soon with plenty of range time for that one.
Fantastic thanks for sharing with us 👍
You’re welcome. Glad you like it.
I used to work with on old guy who had been a sergeant in the Indian Army. He told me that they used the Boys anti-tank rifle for dislodging concealed snipers in tne rocky terrain of the North West Frontier, where there was always resistance to the presnce of British rule. If they were lucky the round would blast aside the sniper's cover or, at least, sca re the s**t out of him. It was not a popular weapon as it had to be carried by hand if mules weren't available.
Interesting. I’m surprised they reached that far with the supplies and numbers available.
Great video, thanks for your research and presentation. I'm looking forward to your SMGs in your next episode.
Thank you. The SMGs was a good one to do. We’ve some more specific Sten stuff coming too.
My dad who fought in WW 11 said the boys rifle recoil was brutal. That said he was 5'9 and around 10 stone. The PIAT he was issued with, he hated! Die to his light weight the weapon sometimes did not recock and he was too short by 1/2" to manually reset. He was strong enough to compress the spring but it would not latch. Thankfully he said ,there was plenty of Typhoons to sort out enemy tanks
Interesting to have his experiences of both weapons and him like neither!
The Boys A/T was not so good on tanks but my Father did see his M/T Sergeant in 9KRRC shoot down an Me bf109 with one in Greece. He could still mention that event in his 80’s! It was fired off a sandbag in a quarry.
Interesting! Greece was just on the cusp of heavier armour for the Germans I think.
@@vickersmg not so good against 25 pounder gun how or some stirling AT action with 2pdrs.
Absolutely! The 2-pounders did plenty of good work!
@@vickersmg What you must remember with the Greek campaign is that a noticeable part of the British division was TA and they were allied to amazing ANZAC troops against SS divisions who were quite badly mauled while advancing against a fighting retreat.
My dad was an infantry sgt during WWII and was also a marksman. When he was still a L/Cpl he was given a Boys anti - tank rifle to play with. He absolutely hated the recoil. Fortunately, he was given the role of BREN gunner.
The Bren is certainly a lot easier to carry too!
The mortar sight is akin to a volly sight on old SMLE rifles, the line throwing could be done with a training round.
Yes it could be. The sight is very similar to the 2-inch mortar sight as well, with the bubble too.
I love this series so much😍😍😂
That’s great! Thank you for letting us know. The SMG video is coming next.
TY🙏🙏
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
Give his rathers, between the PIAT and Panzerschrek, my dad chose the Panzershrek.
Did he use it?
No back blast to worry about with that spigot launcher. Interesting.
Yes, an often overlooked benefit.
The thing you learn with HLL isn't just about WW2 combat, it's also the fact Erika is an absolute banger compared to the allied victory music.
What?!? They don’t use ‘Run Rabbit Run’ for the British victory score??
What about the Winchester .50 BMG anti-tank rifle designed for the UK? Looked a lot like an overgrown M-1 Carbine. Both of these rifles paired with an oversized rifle grenade would have been effective well into the late war period and could double as snoper and anti-material rifles as well
Designed for the U.K.? Was it even trialed by the British?
@@vickersmg I refer you to the channel "Forgotten Weapons" for more information
Noice!
Thanks Simon! Glad you thought so.
Surely the all-up weight of the Boys' would help mitigate the recoil?
Well it likely helped but still left a significant effect. One commenter here calculated that the power of the round was likely five times as much as 303 yet the manual says the recoil was only twice as much so perhaps the weight of the gun absorbed three times the power of 303 but no more.
the primary british AT gun ww2 was the 6 pounder (57mm)
From 1942-1944/5 yes but the 2-pounder before and the 17-pounder after.
A loaded PIAT weighs about the same as a Browning 1919A6 "LMG" which tells you what an impractical turd that particular MG was. Unsurprisingly not seen again in Korea unlike the PIAT. PIAT was still floating about with territorial battalions in to the late 60s apparently with no interim weapon between it and the Gustav.
The weight of putting an MMG into an LMG role over many years! Surely the 3.5-inch RL was there between the PIAT and 84mm.
@@vickersmg Anecdotal tales from ancient Cpls suggest otherwise. They were still rocking doorless Mk I Landrovers into the 70s .
Well that’s one for @thearmourersbench to consider as Matt looked into the post-War use quite a bit.
@@vickersmgeven us Cadets in 1972 borrowed and used the 3.5 inch Rocket Launcher, (with dummy heads, (were they wooden?) ), on the range at Pirbright.
They seemed to still be available if needed by real soldiers, even then.
Yes we’re not suggested the 3.5-inch RL disappeared straight away but the PIAT was obsolete from 31st August 1956 so there would have been no authorisation for ammunition or even proofing old stocks. I think those ancient corporals were spinning a yarn!
id love to have a boys ATG ...
They’re great. One of our members fires his regularly using some of the military ranges where there are tank hulls as range wrecks.
Never understood why they didn't design the Piat to be cocked using a Blank cartridge? Bang Click Ready to GO!!!!!
Possibly because it needed an element of surprise to be useful and that would have given it away. Much easier to use soldier power!
@@vickersmg could have used a silencer! 🤫
the russians had a similar weapon to the Boyes anti tank anti truck gun
Yes, and the Germans. Most countries developed an anti-tank rifle when that was all that was needed.
good on the german mk 1 and 2 tanks italian tanks and japanese tanks and soft skinned trucks
It was. Up to about 1941 and into 1942 in some theatres.
Boyes
Nope.
Thank you for this excellent presentation; please; there is no need to go into your bona fides to how or why you possess these articles of history; No government/king/queen should dictate what a person of no conviction of maleficence or of criminal history; may not own said article. again thank you for these videos; they are informative, fun and intriguing with facts I was not aware of.
Hopefully you’ve seen the video where we explain the requirements for section 5. If not, it’s on the channel now. We don’t get into the politics of it as we’re not here for that but it explains the practicalities and the differences between it and other systems.
The PIAT was just a bad path to go down while everyone was progressing into the path of rockets and to a lesser extent recoilless rifles the Brit’s hit a dead end with this monstrosity. Ridiculously heavy, short ranged, an impractical mechanical trigger and launcher, couldn’t be pointed downhill
We covered many points in the video, including the fact that the bomb doesn’t fall out when it’s pointed downwards!
The troops all said otherwise. Did you listen to anything said in this video?
Of course not! Why would someone watch the whole video that answers their questions?!?!?
Let's ignore the fact that by not having any back blast, it could be fired inside a small room.
We didn’t ignore it at all. Discussed at about 25:20. Didn’t you get that far?
The infamous PIAT, more dangerous to the user than to the tank aimed at. 😂😂😂😂😂
Nonsense history.
In worked with a man. Who. Used this anti tank rifle he said he shot several. German soldiers. With it. Bit of overkill. !!!!?
Just a bit and overkill for that man's shoulder too!
😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
You like it then.
The real ones. Not the fake cardboard cut-out ones or the plastic replica anti-tank weapons.
The real ones, as in not the computer-generated ones used on the game we’re discussing!
Jolly gd show m8s. Didn't subscribe as you olde school Brexit Poms do Imperial weights, while 99% of Mother Earth are Metric OK.
Well you can subscribe with a metric thumbs up too. The USA would be quite a big 1% in your calculation as well. BTW, we take a very flexible approach to metric and imperial and often use both. www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/2otfbry1cfo71.png
battlefield game usage for this video? thumbs down
Had to be. Maybe in the future we can get the PIAT firing. The Boys is firing and we’ll add that later.
The film is literally about the weapon usage in a game, so yeah, it’s going to have game usage.
Almost like it should have game footage!