Sulfur god's sigil is actually a mix of 2 alchemical symbols. Ignis (the triangle) and, obviously, sulfur (the triangle with the inverted cross). Literally burning sulfur.
They should have included the symbol for brimstone, since its essentially the same as Sulphur 🜏 It also looks like a barbed peener with balls so thats cool.
@@sirrealism7300 it would’ve complemented Sylvian’s vigil so I don’t think orange would’ve wanted such a connection to be made. Also like others said, might’ve been too on the nose
The fact that the writer of this game planted the idea that sulfur subverted his brother when he was trying to become a “good God“ as far back as in the depths of the first game is fascinating, and really impressive with how much forethought it took.
It's Satan/Jesus, except the idea is if Satan and Jesus are two aspects of a regular fallible man split into their extremes and deified. Although Alll-Mer is significantly more vicious than Jesus, it must be said.
@@lorddervish212quinterosara6 there isn’t a good explanation of the subject on TH-cam I can link you to, have you played both games all the way through? I mean fully committed multiple play-through’s where you have an empirical understanding between the differences in endings and a working knowledge of what needs to be done to earn them, that’s really the only way you’d have a decent foundation to discern within a comprehensive overview. Seriously, I could try to blurt it out in a single comment but you won’t start to get it until you’ve become a legit completionist, and I have a feeling you haven’t gotten there yet…
Really like the lore of the Gods in this series. They're so powerful even a fragment of them is able to twist and warp everything it's near. Gorgoroth nuking Nas'hrah, who himself nuked one of the New Gods.
@@diegodelacruzanaya537 "I'm literally an abstract concept of destruction, you can never beat me... You can't even really comprehend!" "Mmm... Demolish old house to make new palatial estate... I do this for warlord in the Eastern Sanctuaries once, was very good pay... Seems quite comprehensible." "Fuuuuuuuck... He knows..."
@@bruhistantv9806 Is this an adapted quote from somewhere?' This gave me the idea that, the more you comprehend a God *without* that comprehension making you more fearful, the weaker they become to you. Before, it's some barely understandable destructive force. You can only see the effects and broadly infer what lies behind the vail, causing this. Then you understand it and pull down the veil. Either what you see was just as bad or worse than what you had anticipated or the fact you can now see what's causing the destruction is inherently diminishing the horror. And with how concept-based the Gods are, that could have effects on them or rather you approaching them.
@@voidjockey82 I think there are some lore bits in Termina that seems to imply this, as humanity grew more advanced, the more complex these concepts became. After all, everyone may have a different interpretation on how it is to truly love or what true destruction is. As a result these once "pure" concepts of love and destruction became distilled loosening the Old God's power
My theory is for why Daan is targetted by Rher to become a servant, only to be ordered to stop participating in the contest, is that he has the potential to become the champion of sulfur the cult wants. But the traces of Rher doesn't want the cult to get what they want out of spite for exploiting his power.
No, he doesn't. That wouldn't make sense at all. Perkele clearly says if you don't kill ALL the contestants quickly enough during this trial, you aren't "bloodthirsty" enough and you aren't worthy of the cult of sulfer. Daan is not bloodthirsty at all, in fact i don't think he kills even a single person in termina. You can see during his dialogue in combat that he isn't used to combat at all. Its quite the opposite, he gave up parts of himself to save his girl. Thats the opposite of bloodthirsty, you can even see him tending to a wounded man in the 2nd area. If you look at his soul, you'll see its a "blank" soul. This is probably caused by the loss of a loved one breaking his spirit, and considering one definition of blank is "a space left to be filled" and pocketcats keen interest in emotion, it can be assumed this is the reason that pocketcat took over. It doesn't necessarily mean Rher "targeted" Daan himself, but his servant did. Pocketcat has always been oddly focused on happiness and depression, also in the first game, having a conversation with him about it gives you a unique status effect which is still unknown what it means or its effect.
In the game, we are repeatedly told that Moonscorch is the result of Rher's light and influence coming into contact with a living being. However, a few things contradict this: 1: Rher is gone. As we've established, he left long ago. Perhaps his traces are enough to cause Moonscorch, but... 2: In real life, the moon doesn't actually emit light. It only reflects it. The source of this reflected light...? The sun. Considering the Sulfur God's association with the sun and whatnot... 3. There's also a track in the game that is rather suspiciously named "Under the Sulfur Sun" which, correct me if I'm wrong, plays whenever you get sent to the top of the Hollow Tower after sleeping. And you're ALWAYS under "Rher's" "moonlight" during these intermissions. With that all this in mind, is Moonscorch really "moon" scorch? Might be a bit of a stretch, but it does fit rather nicely, doesn't it?
The God of The Depths works similarly to Rher and he has been dead for quite some time. My guess is the traces of an old god will still radiate echoes of it's influence within it's domains. You see other examples of long gone gods having power if you partake in Marriages and summoned tree's. I feel Rher is only still prevelant because of his followers and the influence of the sulphur god keeping Termina festival alive. The only sane non-contestants in Termina are sulphur cultists partaking in the festivitoes and Kaiser. Rher is essentialy exploited to find more people to sacrafice to the Sulphur Pits. I would not be surprised if the God of Fear and Hunger also had an anti christ figure of itself.
Samarie is probably associated with being the eye of Ra because she is connected to the right side and holds the radiating soul. The female counterpart of the solar god, known as the eye of Ra, was created after Ra tore out his right eye as a punishment for humanity's revolt against him because Ra is a mortal god and was becoming senile at the time. Ra ages but is then reborn via a celestial body. I think Samarie's propensity for masturbating has something to do with "The Lady of the Vulva," also known as Hathor, a facet of Ra's eye. Ra's rebirth is brought about by Hathor since she is also known as the Heavenly Cow. She would then be her father's daughter, mother, and consort.
I’m surprised you didn’t layer the Sulphur god symbol over All-Mers corpse. He’s making the bottom triangle with his hands, it’s been there looking us in the face this whole time.
@@mojus2890 just eyeballing it, i believe the larger, bisected traingle divides the corpse's face into half with an eye and half without. the corpse's joined hands form the smaller triangle, and the cross could be a few things. 1. at the navel, the root chakra 2. at the side where Alll-Mer was wounded on the cross 3. at the genitals
The thought of Olivia doing the C ending appeals to me. Firstly, it's just the appeal of the most innocent character becoming the worst thing in the story. But also it doesn't seem that impossible, considering circumstances of the game. Firearms give her the most bloodlust out of all the character, and its not that hard to fall down the slippery slope of violence on this festival. I can see every other character having some sort of strong core to stay reasonable while cutting off heads of every enemy to improve their powers, but not with Olivia. Her surviving ending states that she actually becomes a better and more confident person after the Festival. But, most importantly, she has a Shadowed Soul, which seems like a very fitting soul for that kind of ending. Literally a Shadowed Soul, it's not getting closer than that, It gives a parallels between her and her sister who gained a different Godhood - a less evil one, I would say -, and it also gives us a parallel between them two and Allmer with his shadow Sulfur. So while I'm sure she didn't became a Sulfur God in canon (it is obviously a pinecone pig, as you brilliantly proved in this video), I still find her character being the best to do it narratively. Or I just love fucked-up girls. Amazing video btw.
@@MautheDoog i been thinking what If allmer and sulfur are basically the demiurge inspired what If logic is too? I mean If we look at logic final design she literally has a Crown that look like Sun rays what If she is the true god or Sun god child in this situation? 😮 What If Legarde is actually right?!!!!!?.
@@MautheDoog lets Just look at the timeline *the god of fear and hunger* had hundreds of years of influence since her birth the cruel age is seemly 3 days to expire in termina and surprising she doesnt Care anymore sulfur and his followers dont seem to Care either she is not a threat to sulfur. And logic is getting prepared for her birth and needles and stitches ARE guarding the machines? Under perkele orders probably. Logic is a real threat to sulfur she is planing to basically Merge ALL living being minds onto the Matrix and in doing so ALL the gods influences would be sealed off except hers.
25:50 She spent her life studying Alll-mer... under the priests who worship Sulfur under the guise of Alll-mer. She might just be conditioned to associate the feel of Sulfur with Alll-mere EDIT: probably this is what is said later in video idk I commented as I watched EDIT EDIT: yeah ok
Isnt he using a Skirt made of meat? its like he is usinga robe without breaking the "im a skinless beast made of muscles" so he uses a cute meat skirt instead
i always imagined that his skin was turned inside out. i imagine that wearing clothing would make that even more uncomfortable, but then again the guy lives in pain so im not sure that it matters.
My whole theory about the body in Ma-had is that it's Sulphur's original form after ascending. Much like his cultists he rose to even greater heights through death and came back a twisted form, it's why his spells seem to given even those who use them the ability to warp reality rather than mystical effects. Sulphur has likely ascended past the heights of the old gods through death and sacrifice, pulling his true potential all out much like how the player characters do through his hexan. I hope we get a deeper exploration of Sulphur in a third game. They are genuinely the most interesting god in Fear and Hunger
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 I would argue that giving a definite answer to the topic introduced by Black Kalev wouldn't be really that interesting. Learning which part of the man All-Mer was cast down and which ascended would reduce the mistery. After all, who else but them would have this knowledge? I am much more interested in the implications of such a God as the Sulphur even existing and still being present in the world. It's an extremely niche topic after all, and whoever built Logic is unlikely to know the God that well
I feel The Sulphur God is All-Mhers true self and he cast it aside to ascend. Fear and Hunger has alot of themes revolving around the nature of humans and how we have an ugly primal thoughts we keep buried. I feel Sulphur is supposed to be a Satan figure that apposes All-mher who is more on par with The Demi-urge/ Yaldaboth who is the perfect yet imperfect god.
It’s implied that All-Mer was a vessel for the Sulphur God (Gro-Goroth) which is how All-Mer was able to ascend at all (the God of Fear and Hunger is able to ascend in a similar way using a human soul imbued within the body of an Old God, basically the reverse of All-Mer’s method.) The human that Sylvian asks Vitruvia to create is All-Mer who is imbued with the soul of her counterpart, Gro-Goroth. This is where the Jesus Christ parallels come in as Jesus is basically God in human form.
I really liked these theories, it really gives a whole new level of perspective on a deity that could be otherwise overlooked entirely just playing through the game casually. I think personally that the key tying this altogether is Rher. Rher is described as being the jealous kind who does not desire to share power, but yet in FH2, Rher shares its power with Sulfur to create the illusion of the festival. Perhaps it was always Vitruvia's intention to create the perfect man, a bridge to the old gods, as it was commanded to. The plan went exactly as Vitruvia expected, but at the time of ascension Rher's machinations made it so the sulfur would win in the coin toss for who became the dominate soul in the exchange. Wouldn't it makes sense for Rher to hedge it's bets on the god most likely to destroy all of humanity? For if the Alll-mer became all it was promised to be, then humanity would have reached its full potential, but clearly it did not. For if humanity had reached its potential, then why were the God of Fear and Hunger and The Logic needed? The God of Fear and Hunger and The Logic are both in their own ways a means to overcome the plans of the old gods and drive humanity towards breaking the cycle and progressing beyond the gods themselves. Perhaps Nilvan and Le'garde knew of the true origins of the Alll-Mer all along. After all, the God of Fear and Hunger was created using the exact process that sulfur was, they had to learn about how this was done from somewhere. While Nilvan was content in the creation of the ascended god, Le'garde, being human still, acted as humans do and desired more, putting him down the path of becoming Kaiser and finding a way to create a god completely devoid of the old gods power entirely, for even though the God of Fear and Hunger seems to be sympathetic towards humanity, it still carries a piece of the old gods with it and may still turn on them one day. The Logic offers a way to bypass the old gods power by linking the tremendous power of all human souls together into a force that rivals the primordial green hue, a font where all things can be created. That's my two cents on the subject anyway.
Rher being friendly with Sulfur because he destroys humanity, or at least keeps them in their place is a pretty interesting idea. The Rher-Sulfur connection is definitely one of the weirdest mysteries left to uncover. I don't think Legarde knew of the true process of ascension during f&h1, or he probably wouldn't have tried to do it the wrong way. He probably realised his mistake afterwards, so changed course to make Logic...
@@suetyhercules7717 I don't think Logic and the God of Fear and Hunger have any particular reason to oppose each other. They seem to be doing one thing, advancing humanity to progress. Although I do not rule out that this is possible if the God of Fear and Hunger does not want to be replaced and does not want humanity to completely defeat these very fear and hunger through uniting into a collective mind with Logic. In addition, the third part of F&H in 1970-1990 sounds very cool, although this is less likely than in modern times (as Termina was originally planned).
And Logic too! However, in Termina, although she does not have a separate skill tree, she has more spells than "All-mer" :D Red Arc and Moth Swarm against only the Blood Sword (well, and a meme spell)
@@suetyhercules7717 can't do cold war. america is still vinland and uncolonized. that's how bremen wasn't beaten. if they were to colonize it after the war, it wouldn't be strong enough... but then again... vinland might be hiding some fancy old god magic... so it might still happen
my theory about the corpse in Mahabre was that its the original form of the sun god after he died to make all-mer. Sulfer ended up retaining that one eye trait through the accention though. The sun god only having one eye just kinda makes sense to me, since the sun is sometimes depicted as a giant eye in the sky, and it seems like the Sulfer god might still be alive if the laughing you hear when you die to the inverse thorns is actually them.
What if Vitruvia intended to create both? In different cultures there are different ideas on what is a perfect Human. Sulfur represents the perfect "apex" Human, deceitful, powerful, and a ruler, a lot like modern day celebrities that are glorified while Alll-mer is a humble, friendly, and giving person, someone you'd want to be friends with and look up to.
46:00 the Vitruvian man wasn't an attempt of Leonardo da Vinci to draw a perfect man but to recreate the proportions that Vitruvius had discovered in the human body
Makes sense now! Pinecone Pig in the orphanage just seemly wanted to be sacrificed, because Pinecone Pig found out that Pinecone Pig was really Pinecone Pig!
38:18 There is a historical pretext for a one-eyed, right eye remaining Sun God: Ra, from Egyptian Mythology. Ra was seen as the creator of the universe, and the source of all life, not just human life. The "Corpse of an Old God" looks like a marriage, and Ra merged with Osiris in the underworld. The connections are tenuous, but we don't know what inspired Miro. I just see a lot of parallels between this and Egyptian mythology as well.
I agree that the man in black is likely the 12th disciple of Allmer, but I always interpreted him more like Nosramus, being someone that saw the transformation of Allmer into an Ascended God, and being disillusioned by the process. I always took his idol carving warning to be similar to Nosramus' warning about the New God trap. He never gave me Sulphur God Cultist vibes.
Truly Pinecone Pig changed my whole perspective on the Fear & Hunger series and I hope the third game will go more in-depth in the mind of Pinecone Pig
I said this In the stream but, I think the reason why you don’t see the sun anymore in the city of Ma’Habre in the present is because it’s all underground now. When you’re at the entrance of the dungeons of fear and hunger it’s daytime but foggy. But, when you go into mahabre it’s all underground and it’s dark unless if you use the cube to go into the past where it’s all sunny
Brilliant video! The only thing I would add is that the alchemical symbol for Sulphur is part of the Sulphur God’s rune. Sulphur also has a second symbol that resembles Per’kele’s headpiece. Sulphur is actually one of the 3 heavenly alchemical substances - salt = body (base matter), mercury = mind, sulphur = (heavenly) soul. There’s a lot to be said about the colors that are prominently associated with the Gods, Prehevil, and the City of Mahabre (the green mist) itself. Even the Sulphur God’s origins reflect the alchemical image of the Green Lion Consuming the Sun. Said image represents how matter that is dipped into (green acidic) vitriol will be “purified” leaving behind only the gold within. Also the mystery rune looks like Logic’s human form and Samarie’s Moonscorched one, both of which have the Radiating Soul…piNECONE PIG LIVES ONNNN
There are some problems with the theory, for instance, it is not o'saa's first time in Europa, by now he would have noticed that the western alll-mer isn't the easteen one and even so, he knows of average alll-mer rituals like confession, which all players know. One thing that I couldn't fit together is the fact that when you find "alll-mer" dead, he looks totally different from the god of sulfur. And another thing which isn't as relevant. I do find that the god of sulfur/alll-mer isn't as powerful as you claim him to be, look at all the powers other gods can give, and the only things alll-mer does are stated in the video, and about the amount of rituals, clearly in the gauntlet there are more sacrifices for the god of the dephts. I think more than the most powerful old god, he works as a bond between men and old gods, for he gives access to their power, as the other old gods don't care that much about men. One last thing, through careful reading of the skin bible, I understood that alll-mer was a god before dying, the meaning of this I could not decipher; but it may have something to do with the "molded" things in the void, which are presumed by the new gods at the table to be created by a wicked new god (I don't remember the exact citation but you can find it in the wiki), the smell of sulfur is also mentioned. I just want to say that this video was awesome, the symbolism and gnosticism related topics was something I would have never figured out myself. And I always like to think that it was daan the one to get ending C, that's why pocketcat wants to make him a furry😊
Since Alll-mer can still be called upon using the perfect circle I do think he's an ascended god and the portals could be result of his magic, while sulfur can still be an ascended god. But I do believe sulfur is more powerful than his brother and that they both live in the sulfuric pits, Alll-mer from when he was cast down and sulfur from after his body died since even his followers call the sulfuric pits his cage and when we go there we do see him in all his horror. Sulfur could also be a power beyond or adjacent to the ascended gods since his ritual symbol in the mold apartments uses no circle. For the alll-mer affinity also giving sulfur spells I believe their affinites overlap due to their dual nature, we might be calling upon alll-mer for the portals and sulfur for the blood sword and inverse crown. Also I think it's fitting for alll-mer to have a dual nature somewhat similar to the trinity's triple nature and for a god of humanity to both represent human capacity for good and evil.
I think the best description for Alll-Mer and Sulfur's relationship might be to reference an episode of Rick and Morty: Rest and Ricklaxation. In it, Rick and Morty are "purged" of all the toxins in their body, including the aspects of their personality that they consider negative... and those toxins took on a life of their own. If someone who views humanity itself as corrupt and impure goes through that process, then won't he be casting aside everything that makes him human?
I don't know, that's a grimdark theme but it doesn't really mesh with the Christian ethos since the whole point is Jesus is a man who overcame sin despite being a man.
From what I see this can be somewhat explained by the ability of Sulphur to cause Termina using Rher’s remnant divinity. It could be that All-mer in a way never stopped being one as in him and Sulphur are forever connected and that is why both are inconsistent(and with the two aspects existing either gave an opportunity to Sulphur to act or for All-mer given whoever won) so Sulphur could have corrupted one of the versions and grew stronger or he took discreetly the church of All-mer in Europa(or just their leadership and key points) and in the limits of Prehevil Sulphur can interfere with prayer to All-mer to give spells and that is what reverse crown of thorns is.
There is also the matter that in Fear and Hunger it was a matter that the power of old gods was too incompatible with humanity so “Vitruvia having designed All-mer” itself is debatable since the necessity for Logic is that Ma’habre was supposed to have been the lizard’s domain and never properly worked for human new gods making that the age of human new gods was an eternal loop before Fear and Hunger arose because Ma’habre would fall apart and the capability to become a new god could only be accessed in the throne of the past. Logic being an attempting path of divinity to humans(though it’s an obviously a no that Logic will fix humanity, maybe it being composed by a radiant instead of a enlightened will make the third game be about how the age of information is lacking in constancy and truth).
Great video, never thought the whole Sulfur God thing goes this far. Also, the Pinecone pig theory was really good, it certainly holds its ground once you start thinking about all the minor details surrounding it.
One thing that I didn't hear discussed is the parallel to Legarde? There's the obvious "perfected" man trying to ascend, but also the potential parallel in the resurrection gone wrong and the vengeful brutal Legarde of D'Arce's S-ending. Of course, is this a parallel or was this also a plot by the Sulfur god himself? All of this also begs the question - the what happened to the good side? And I could be mistaken, but it's also curious that you can't seem to get the New Gods of FH1 to talk about Alll-mer.
I think the new gods are scared about the sulfur god because he became so powerful that he couldnt affect the real world in a way like the old gods who left the world, he was so "pure" in his hatred and evilness that he has to use proxy methods like followers doing sacrifices and trying to channel him for him to have an effect on the world, perkele being the perfect example of it, the termina death game is probably the way the sulfur god can find a worthy vessel for him to bring terror into the world
While the next game may likely address these questions and shed more light on the Sun God, I have the suspicion that the expanded content for F&H2 could provide some hints, if not even more questions
In irish celt mythology the grandpa of lugh was the leader of the femorians and he had a Terrible one eye that burnt like the sun when he opened it, his grandson lugh is depicted bald and shining brightly without devastation, both have aspects that inspired both all mer and sulfur. It is interesting that lugh only wins against baelor by profecy and trickery shooting a pebble into baelors eye and turning it onto baelor himself destroying him, later he takes over as king through beating the old one in strategy game, although here the sun god (baelor) uses said trickery and takes over all mer (lugh) and his name to reign over the followers of all mer.
Your theories surrounding pinecone pig are perhaps some of the most interesting and eye opening things I’ve seen on this platform. Absolutely incredible.
Pinecone Pig theory gave me chills, man. I won't see that thing the same way ever again. Sheesh, more scary than anything combine in the lore so far. Loved it
I had suspected some of the pinecone pig theory, but definitely missed that connection! That's it, though. I'm totally convinced, and can't tell if I'm more vindicated or more kicking myself for missing it
If the sulphurous god is the "other half" of all-mer's humanity, as implied, wouldn't that mean that it is just as much of a full ascended god of all-mer? just one that was banished away intentionally so that its influence would be weakened. I question whether or not all of Europa worshipped (intentionally or not) the sulphurous god. It seems more likely that Prehevil is a unique place. Marina was used to it, having grown up there. It's also possible that the influence of the sulphurous god grew stronger after she left. (If it was always this bad it would be hard to imagine a whole city being built lmao) Prehevil is certainly special somehow, being the location of the Termina festival and also being the place where the Yellow King needed to set up the Logic device. I also think I remember that, in general, belief in Gods and the powers of magic had faded dramatically around the world since the birth of Fear & Hunger. The faith that had previously been placed in godly figures was instead put towards the creations of man.
Yeah it does look like there's two Ascended Gods running around thanks to Alll-Mer ascended, and imo Sulfur is the stronger. I realised after uploading that I forgot to mention Marina studied at the Vatican and still didn't notice anything wrong, so either the Vatican worships Sulfur or there's no presence there at all. But yeah you're right about belief fading as a whole
What do you think about relation between Rher and Sulphur? The Pocketcat's Room have Moon and one-eyed Star, my hypothesis that this Star symbolize Sulphur.
I suspect there's a connection between Rher and the Sun God, although exactly what is hard to know... Rher's probably still mad about the Sun God dying tbh
@@MautheDoogsun and moon gods are always closely linked in mythology, I would be surprised if there was no connection. I mean they are almost always depicted as siblings or lovers
I watches your video again twice just to reassure all of the gathered information points you pointed out with the lore of the Alll-mer, the rest of old and ascended deities (including Sylvian and Fear and Hunger), vitruvian, sulfur, City of Mahabre and I do need to lines all of these: -The habit of Alll-mer molding and carving idols might be a reference to both Apocryphal Nag Hammadi and Islamic stories of Jesus' miracles of molding living birds out of clay, probably to posits Alll-Mer's traits to be the superior traits of union to be the first ascended deity within Fear and Hunger universe -The supposed corpse of Alll-mer when visited via time travel into the past is also interesting considering of how the corpse have only one eye and you theorised it to be the possible corpse of sulfur deity instead, which sulfur deity associated to be Antichrist-like figure in the F&H Universe akin to how the Islamic Eschatological Narratives (basically the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad himself) to have the Dajjal/Antichrist to be one-eyed, able to do many supernaturally magical and violent bloody feats including resurrecting the dead to fool the believers into disbelieving in Allah and bring more humans (alongside djinns and other creatures) to be at his side as the agency of Iblis (The Devil) -Vitruvia figure being connected to Da Vinci sketch of his supposed "Ideal Man" also fits the Sethian (and to certain but different extent of Valentinian) Gnostics views of there's different sides of Adam, as Adam divided between Spiritual Adam (The Holy Land of Adamantine) which is still below Pleroma (Fullness of God) but having strengths and abilities superior to Yaldabaoth/Demiurge and his Archons children, with Vitruvia acting more like Demiurge and sulfur deity acts similar to one of the Archons of Yaldabaoth, as it's clear that you only look into Yaldabaoth but not of the ridiculously exhausting lists of Archons, like I'm not kidding, depending on the real life Gnostic groups, the identification of Archons can be goes as far from Greco-Roman pantheon, to Kemetic, Near-Eastern and Hindu Vedic pantheon depending of how Gnostic Christian groups and offshoot religions (akin to the surviving mandaeism to the now-extinct Manichaeism goes), and going back to the multiple-sides/dimensions of Adam, aside from the Spiritual type of Adam, there's also "Soulful"/Psychic/Nafesh type of Adam which serves as somekind of blueprint by The Archons to construct the Adam from Clay, this Psychic Adam is what kind of lowly Soul which Yaldabaoth snatched (or given) by his mother Sophia (which Sophia being the last of the Aeons of The Pleroma) to breath the psychic Adam into the carnal/matter/Clay Adam so he can became animated and grow awareness, somekind the assistance of Demiurge to bring Adam to life involves a daughter of Sophia called Zoe (Life), or also known as Eve in Sethian Exegesis, Vitruvia is still acting as Demiurgic figure in Fear and Hunger but it might also can be referring to one of the Archons instead, as Sylvian and her husband Gro-Goroth also acts like a balancing cycles akin to the more Cainite (as in Gospel of Judas cosmology) of Samael and his consort Nebroel as the ruling 13 Angels of the Underworld (yes, I'm not making that up, the roles of infernal angels, pagan gods and devils are interchangeable similar to how Iblis, Djinns and Shaiyatin were made of fire and "smokeless fire" respectively) The lore(s) of various Gnostic groups asides from radical dualism of Manichaeism (Marcionism excluded since it's not "Gnostic" per-se and still relies of "Faith over Works" instead of prioritising Knoweldge (Gnosis) above still important Faith) are oddly enough Monotheistic with their texts serves more of Exegetical (Interpetive) of the Gospel during the diversity of Early Christianity, only that it has semantical differences at using terms like "divinities", "gods", "angels", "devils", "demons" and every creatures below Pleroma interchangeably depending of their natures and how they could overturn their own impulses to ascends or descends, the Valentinians have distinctions between creatures belonging to Pleroma, creatures belonging to Kenoma and creatures belonging to Hysterema Although into other tangent, the crucifixion graffitti being of Donkey might either referencing Jesus riding Donkey to Jerusalem around 3-7 days prior to supposed crucifixion, or to be materials which Christian Gnostic groups utilises Donkey-headed motives to mock the Roman pagans back as one of the Archons in Sethian texts akin to Apocryphon of John and Hypostasis of The Archons to be "donkey-headed" Elaios, with his feminine name to be "Jealousy" (which might cross referenced the antiquity Greco-Roman pagans' jealousy of the rise of Christianity alongside one of the traits of the old testament deity to be a "jealous god", Islam rejects the idea of both Crucifixion, Atonement Theology (which involves typical mainstream Christian Eucharist and sacrifices) and "Jealous god" though, much akin to Basilidean Gnostics and some Sethian texts which believed "Substitutionist" theory of Jesus never being crucified, with either Simon of Cyrene or one of his volunteering disciples However, Fear and Hunger might going full blown pessimist that it's only taken the more "lovecraftian"/Dead Space-like pessimism that it's taking more of the spiteful and bitter aspects of Cainite, Borborite (this group might influences the very sexually explicit orgy and defilement imagery in F&H) and Abelite groups of Gnostic groups, thus even some groups akin to Sethians had beef and wrote polemical texts in "Testimony of Truth" within one of the 13 Codices of Nag Hammadi Library Hence, I'm really sorry for the wall of texts to elaborate of the tying into different connections, but I feel like I need to explains these differing Gnostic groups, their texts and their entire Archeological Theological connections to it, as real life Religions and Faiths in MENA region are very interconnected during Antiquity to early Medieval age since both Essenes' Dead Sea Scrolls and Mandaeans further, to the point that even a single group's doctrines, teachings, cosmology, rites and cultures can be let's just say, too complex To anyone which reads my comment through to the end, thank you so much for reading my thought process and God bless
Thank you for the massive and thoughtful response! Miro is knowledgeable about a lot of religions, so I'm not surprised he's referencing Islam as well. I know very little about it, so thank you for pointing out the similarities between Sulfur and the Dajjal, as well as the clay birds. The Gnostic connections go ever further than I realised. Perhaps I'll need to spend some more time studying the old heresies... Miro really set out to make a religion in his games as complex as real world ones it seems. Thank you for explaining so much more about it, I appreciate it!
@@MautheDoog This is also to note that both Islam and some Gnostic groups from Basilideans to some Sethian texts also believes Jesus survives Crucifixion too, all while Apostle Peter was crucified upside down, as Peter being the bedrock of today's Catholic Church (and the keyholder to Paradise), all while one of Sethian texts that denies Jesus crucifixion is form Coptic Apocalypse of Peter from Nag Hammadi's 13 Codices Thank you so much for the responses, I'm Muslim so I have curiosity to learn all of the pre-Islamic histories to connect it with Islam, although as more of personal pursuits and out of personal Religious obligations to "Seek Knowledge, even if it as far as China" to paraphrase it in a Hadith And again, Fear and Hunger might leaning into the darker and pessimistic Cosmology of Abelite, Cainite and Borborite Gnostics with possible Manichaean Cosmic Tragedy which are actual radically dualistic (with belief in two opposing Pre-existent Powers), Gospel of Judas is seeing Demiurge as an Angel than of separate god, meanwhile groups akin to later Sethians used "god(s)" similar to how Buddhists views "devas" as one of the higher beings of Samsaras (contrary to Hinduism views devas as supreme beings), or Muslims views Djinns and Satans (Oddly enough Djinns to have possible root to Latin Roman usage of Genii, hence there's terms of "Genius" from Genius Loci, somekind of more neutral spirit holding their own regional dominions, much like of Pauline's views of pagan gods as "gods of the nations" or Islam's concept of "Taghut") Although to note that Sylvian also have pattern of similar behaviours to Elden Ring lore of The Crucible, where the establishment of Crucible as the outer god prior to The Greater Will and it's proxies (Elden Tree, Elden Beast and Elden Ring and the lesser outer gods asides from Frenzied Flame, Ranni ascension to a separate lesser outer god/ruler with her consort by subverting The Greater Will in "Age of Stars" Ending, and The aforementioned Crucible) were pretty much focuses on the growth of life for the sake of life, even if it causes overgrowing and overbearing the acts of life to the point of birthing beings suffering with "omen curse" in the lands between too just to add further with extra sources
Very interesting insights! I just learned about the donkey-headed drawing of Christ, coincidentally. The translation is something like “a Christian worshipping his god.” It was to mock Christians because the idea of worshipping a god who died-especially in that way-was so ridiculous to the Romans. I am Christian (Eastern Orthodox), so I believe in the crucifixion, but I understand why it is difficult to believe. Eastern Orthodox have a different understanding of its meaning than most Protestant and Catholic theologies; we believe Christ died for us as an act of healing and purification (“clean” vs. “unclean”)-and a lot more-but we don’t believe in penal substitutionary atonement. Anyway, I find religions deeply interesting subjects and love learning more about both mine and others!
@@elusivemayfly7534 Oh yeah the donkey inscription which is also the oldest (surviving) inscription of Jesus! I remember It as a Roman man drawing a friend and taunting him saying "Alexamenos worshipping his god" rather than all of Christianity but It did show how to an average Roman how worshiping someone who was executed was just not well seen at all without even going as far as talking about the powers at the time persecuting them.
I didn't know you did more than playthroughs. An *hour-long* lore analysis video. Holy shit. You've got every ounce of my support and loyalty now, I'll never question my faith 🙏🏿 💯
The theory about pinecone pig isnt as compelling as i thought it was, but it is a possibility. I wish to point out that All-mer , the sun god and the sulfur god can form a trinity ,mirroing the christian trinity with the Sun(Creator),All-Mer(Son) and the Sulfur God(holy spirit).
That theory about pinecone pig was absolutely amazing! you did an excellent job in your research with the limited amount of hints you got just from pinecone pig and honestly i think i came out of the video understanding a bit more of the F&H universe and its lore (impressive because i am pretty dumb lmao) Anyways good vid can only wait for more with excitement ^-^
What seems very interesting is that if Sulfer won out and is the greater part of the ascension of All-Mer, something clearly went wrong for him given he is now described as trapped and raging in the Sulfer Pits. He is not still not the conquering king, maybe he tried to refine himself yet further and failed in some way?
I don't think Ma'habre is dark now due to All-Mer's/Sulfur's demise, but rather the fact it's underground now. You have to keep in mind that the Dungeons of Fear and Hunger ™ are built right on top of the city itself. Everything else sounds pretty logical tho. Good work!
Mahabre isn't actually inside our reality, but between our world and the green hue (where the Old Gods came from). The dungeon is built on (or caused) a fracture in reality which lets you walk into Mahabre, but the "main" method is dying or dreaming to get there
When comparing the sun god and the sulfur god, one big problem arises for me. The fact is that the cross itself is a solar symbol and very often it symbolizes the sun, at the same time the symbol of the inverted sun (or star, or cross) means something dichotomous to the solar. It is not about the dichotomy of the Sun and the Moon, but rather about the dichotomy of Christ and the Antichrist. So in this regard, I think that identifying the sun with the sulfur god is not very true in itself, but there is still ground for thinking about the nature of the sun god.
The inverted cross in Christianity tends to be Peter's cross as It was inverted, I feel the holywoodian anti christic meaning would not be as interesting without a form of red herring from It, you're expecting the anti and It turns out It was the sun influenced rejected parts or something...
i think something interesting to consider is perhaps that maybe the corpse found in FnH1 is indeed alll-mer - and that his missing eye is one he gave to sulfur when creating him. maybe alll-mer really is dead. maybe sulfur killed him and is all that remains
This is truly mind-blowing wtf miro is amazing for creating such interesting lore and the part where you pointed out the body of "all-mer" at the city of Ma'habre in the first game and how it only has one eye is truly mind-blowing!!!! I love it so much, and connecting it eith something Wormgirl said in one of the 8h live with frapollo about the why it can be affected by necromancy is just cheffkissssss thank you so much for this amazing video dude
The Theory on pinecone pig was truly a masterpiece I mean the way in which for a seemingly joke item it is so masterfully interwoven in with the lore is just the cherry on top of it all its potential connections with Sulfur and all-mer was just absolutely insane but so obvious when playing the game I feel stupid for missing such obvious clues left behind by the game dev
The divine symbols on the clock in termina are interesting, there are some we never saw and the symbol of sulfur comes before allmer. Perhaps power, perhaps order of Ascencion? Or perhaps its the time. Where its located between 12am/pm, also known as 00h, and 1h. Like it's the first thing to have been created in the year 0., the new order of humanity. Allmer then came after. Perhaps the one casted away is pretending to be the other, still, as to gather followers and power. Or perhaps allmer indeed died and was absorbed by sulfur, his other part, with it's benevolence discarded and distorted, polymorphed into sickening perversion through sacrifices
What about the Janitor? He has blue paint too Why Janitor is found only in the Looney World? What's his deal with the cubes? Does it have something to do with the fact LOGIC has a hidden looney appearance?
Fantastic work! I always love hearing about Gnosticism. It blew my mind when I researched it myself for one of my own videos. I can't wait for more fear and hunger lore videos!
I am unconvinced that Sulfur God is stronger than All-mer. I think it's the other way around. It's just in Prehevil the cult subverted All-mer's worship and turned it into cult of Sulfur. It just looks like Sulfur is powerless to do anything and is just lashing out via his cultists. His rage and vengeance originate from his impotence.
Sulfur is one of the scariest things i have ever heard, i dread to think what will happen when we fight him in the third game or something like that, i hope that happens because everything points to this, i think that the ending c is the cannon ending and one of the participants became a worthy vessel for the sulfur god, i think that he cant interact that much with the world and people worshipping him are trying to bring him back, after all the older gods left the world and only have traces of their power for a reason, its probably a secondary effect of becoming THAT powerful, if the ending c is the cannon ending it means whichever contestant won would become a worthy vessel for the sulfur god to produce suffering on the world, the third game will probably have us fight against him in this form, this would be completely hopeless but it would fit the themes so well
I really like your analysis on the Sulfur god and Alll-Mer's secret relationship! Small note - Gnosticism isn't one religion. Gnosticism is an archeological term to describe a variety of different unconnected sects of early Christianity that deviated from the orthodoxy of the Catholic Church (and they even saw the Catholic Church as decadent and unholy) in their disavowal of the old testament and greater focus on the New testament. It's better to say "Gnostic sects believed" rather than "in Gnosticism" unless you're referring to modern practitioners. But your parallels are well thought out, and are backed up with great in-game evidence! The idea of Europe following a false god also parallels this - like I said, many early Christian sects across Europe believed in divine humility and poverty that the Catholic Christians did not follow (i.e., they did not buy into Prosperity Doctrine), and they thought the Catholics represented the antichrist. The first crusades of the Catholic Church purged these early Christians who followed non-orthodox scriptures like Judas, Thomas, and Mary. This fits very well into this story - that the Europan Alll-mer faith was tainted from the beginning. Much like the hypocrisy of the Roman Empire taking on the faith of the man they killed, the Sulfur God represents the hypocritical usurping of Alll-mer after he was killed by those same authorities. It was corrupted from the start!
Wow Mau, the theory regarding the pinecone is truly interwoven with the one of the Gnostic connections in both games, kudos to you, truly a mesmerizingly foreboding video game atmosphere descriptions to touch into the core of human mental and material conditions betwixt to constitute the unity of human components to signify the signs of life on this hostile Earth, it's remarks of the more Sethian-leaning Gnostic interpretations of it, despite Gospel of Judas sources tend to possibly closer to Cainite group which many Sethians abhors, the pinecone involved to rejuvenate the whole insights to these characters and other entities within the entire settings of both games too deserves to be known more by more players and viewers
The théory about pinecone pig was soooo great. .. Spoiler alerte but who could have think about that ? The wood from his tree piercing christ on the cross, the missing eye of Sulfur creating a immortal being ... It's true that most of the Monsters are made of flesh but still wood (or végétal like design) is Always présent in some Monster. I Guess it's some kind of infection among the lesser beings
I really enjoy your content in general, but deep dive theories are especially chefs kiss, so thank you for being you. I got pretty excited about the pinecone pig stuff, ngl. When you were first dropping threads I was like "no... no way he's going there..." but by the end I came around, it's very possible. Pinecone-Pig-Possible.
When you mentioned pinecone pig I thought it was going to be a joke. Turns out the joke was on me because you opened my eyes to how essential he is to understand the connection between Sulfur and Alll-mer. Brilliant work!
It's strange, it looks like the corpse of sulpur's hands look like they should be wrapped around something, like they're stabbing a weapon deep into their own chest. Maybe All-mer took control and ended himself?
It occurred to that if this is true, there’s one major difference between the Sun King and the God Of The Depths. Willingness. The God Of The Depths was unwilling and lost out on being the dominant aspect of the ascended god. The Sun King was so willing that he somehow died to a human wounded to the brink of death. And from the sound of it, Allmer wasn’t; he was trying to suppress himself and focused on what he shouldn’t be which speaks of at least reluctance. Finally, for the god making the perfect human foreseeing what would happen; Sulphur is trapped and raging, right? His perfect ascension failed somehow and he died. In the short term it appears to benefit him, but descriptions of him now hardly match the omnipotent force he was supposed to be: caged and burning. What are a few centuries of deception against an eternity of victory to a god? Maybe the old Allmer walked away with all the immortality but no expressed powers, just as was intended by his design?
@@TryinaD Dankovsky was intentionally written to be a pompous insufferable piece of work that nobody would ever like interpersonally -- so Daan better be less annoying to deal with! Its a low bar to cross!
thought pocketcat was a true Rher servant..... I believe the exact moment the god of the depths dies signals the opening of its mouth. A few mithras references too, but i'm not sure about buying the demiurge bit, i'll look into that its intriguing. I had never heard of such. think about Marina's fathers dialogue with the radiant girl, he subtly admits to being a sulfur priest. I thought the original sun god killer was named Betel. My final quip, is that i love this photo 27:43.
Can gods disguise themself as human? Maybe the man in black is Vitruvian and his subtely questioning you for have a... outer point of view on All-mer and Sulfer. Maybe Vitruvian is still tormenting itself for causing the ascension of Sulfer.
I don't even play this game, but these lore videos are pretty fun. Love this sort of stuff. Honestly I thought the pinecone pig thing was a bit of a stretch though. But maybe it's because I didn't actually play the game idk.
the pinecone pig theory was right on the nose!! it's definitely one of the most interesting and thought provoking theories i've heard about f&h, and it honestly recontextualized my entire view of the same. great job mau!
It’s like Silent Hill and Bloodborne had a baby aesthetically. I’ll probably never play this game, but I love the art and lore. Moreeee lore videos please!! ❤
Makes sense, even tho i thought that the black man was the devil or something for being a goat, but man the pinecone pig theory, even tho we see our beloved pet as a benevolent being, we should have know he had something to do with the sulphur god, after all he can take items from extremely powerful beings with ease, how can a little pinecone with stick legs do that if not in the serve of a major power like the sulphur god
I am not sure if this was an actual inspiration but in my interpretation the whole relationship of old, new and ascended gods is built on the philosophical concept of dialectics. Imo almer is the perfect example of this. Dialectics is a theory of phenomenology. As in how things come to happen and it has a few key aspects that I believe are reflected consciously in the world of fear and hunger. Some of those aspects include for example the law of motion. As in nothing is static nothing ever just stays, it's ever developing and ever changing hence the cycle of the new gods periodically replacing eachother. Another concept is that of quantative into qualitativ change. Hence how the slow decay of the new gods leads to a drastic shift when they get replaced by new ones. And most importantly in the case of the ascended gods the concept of the negation of the negation. By far the hardest concept to comprehend because it's tied to another aspect that of unity of opposites also know as the universality of contradiction. The presence of action dictates the presence of its opposite. For example in maths integral and differentiential, in physics action and reaction. Negation of the negation describes how these contradictions play out. If you have one force pushing in one direction and another pushing in the opposite one will be dominant do to some factor and will triumph over the other in the resolution, however it never triumphs fully. The synthesis of thesis and antithesis always contains elements of both. The ascended gods are just that. The negation of the negation, they represent the resolution of the contradiction of human and the gods in a new being containing elements of both. The position of the old gods imo would shot what type of dialectics would be at play. Historically first came hegelian dialectics and later came marxian dialectics. Hegel tried to understand where progress comes from but as a man of faith his dialectics started with the actor influencing the world who then influences him in turn. Marxian dialectics puts that on its head the world(the material) influences and the actor and motivates him into action. Fear and hunger is fascinating in how in its lore it combines both. Yes there is an actuator, in lore Gods are real but interestingly they all represent elements of the material. The gods of creation and destruction ofcs represent a dialectic in of themselves but for example the goddess of fear and hunger represents two things that are both very material and it's making those materials pressures known that influences people to strive for progress. Another thing I find amazing is that almer's Ascension shows the principle of the law of motion perfectly. In both hegel and Marx one thing was clear when a contradiction resolves it doesn't stay "in balance". The synthesis is colored by what was the dominant aspect of the original contradiction and this will birth a brand new contradiction in of itself which will eventually lead to a new synthesis and so on. Hence how the synthesis of two beings human and God lead to the creation of not one, but two new beings. The lore of this game is so complex but vague at the same time that it allows for such interesting reading of it. It's what makes theory crafting so fascinating
The Sulfur God reminds me of some kind of concept in Judaism, that good and evil complement each other as the fragmented portions of God's consciousness and that uniting the two into something else, along with anything that operates on duality is the way forward. I think it's called Ein Sof.
With all the parallels to Christianity, I wonder if Sulfer not having a used name is a reference to how the Devil/Satan is named Lucifer, but nobody uses it. Even Satanists and the Chruch of Satan don't reference the name Lucifer.
@@emosarah7 It's an old cartoon/tv/movie trope. When the characters finished an adventure where they had to make some sacrifice (sometimes saving their friends) instead of gaining some material gain. It's pretty cliche and became a meme, but this reference became popular as people started joking that at the end of animes like One Piece it will end with the characters saying that the real treasure was friendship all along.
Not sure if anybody noticed, but there could be another parallel with Jesus, between him and the empty scrolls. Jesus is shown as a "servant of man" in some occasions. So, in F&H fashion, Alll-mer might be forced to literally serve man, and "O lord give/teach" would be more of a command and less of a prayer. Following the idea of Alll-mer being the weaker part of the ascension, the items he cannot grant through empty scrolls would actually be outside of his reach.
I think we're in alchemy territory more than we are simple gnosticism. Sulfur is one of the tria prima, the prime elements of matter. Paracelsus' tria prima symbol is worth comparing I think. Sulfur is the masculine changing force involved in decomposition, breaking down crude matter to pave the way for transformation.
This does suggest sulfurs creation as intentional by Vitruvia, who seems to stand in for the alchemist shepherding in humanity's consciousness. But it's likely not the intended end point.
Violence, suicide, human sicrifice, dismemberment, drug abuse, war... and the worst of all - Gnosticism
This message is supported by the Catholic and Christian church
You forgot alchemical transmutation.
@@alexandragabitto2573 shush you godless harlot!
And that thing with a Pinecone Pig
Think I'm gonna be sick... Gnosticism
Sulfur god's sigil is actually a mix of 2 alchemical symbols. Ignis (the triangle) and, obviously, sulfur (the triangle with the inverted cross). Literally burning sulfur.
wow, good eye
They should have included the symbol for brimstone, since its essentially the same as Sulphur
🜏
It also looks like a barbed peener with balls so thats cool.
@@sirrealism7300*the stinger is pulsating*
Not really a mindblower here but burning sulfur often has connotations with hell
@@sirrealism7300 it would’ve complemented Sylvian’s vigil so I don’t think orange would’ve wanted such a connection to be made. Also like others said, might’ve been too on the nose
The fact that the writer of this game planted the idea that sulfur subverted his brother when he was trying to become a “good God“ as far back as in the depths of the first game is fascinating, and really impressive with how much forethought it took.
It's Satan/Jesus, except the idea is if Satan and Jesus are two aspects of a regular fallible man split into their extremes and deified. Although Alll-Mer is significantly more vicious than Jesus, it must be said.
Yes its literally just Jesus and Satan but in the timeline where humanity is 200x more violent and chaotic
@@bluegum6438Jesus won’t be coming with love next time. He will come with fire and brimstone.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 I certainly hope so, a lot of people need a spanked ass
@@RevenantNeverDies I think it's because elder gods can force people to do things.
The theory about Pinecone Pig was Terrible! 😡 everyone knows he is made with love and kindness! No way he would ever do such things! 😭
agreed, pincone pig was awful.
false follower it is his will you just dint know he's true reason
What pinecone pig theory?
@@lorddervish212quinterosara6 there isn’t a good explanation of the subject on TH-cam I can link you to, have you played both games all the way through? I mean fully committed multiple play-through’s where you have an empirical understanding between the differences in endings and a working knowledge of what needs to be done to earn them, that’s really the only way you’d have a decent foundation to discern within a comprehensive overview. Seriously, I could try to blurt it out in a single comment but you won’t start to get it until you’ve become a legit completionist, and I have a feeling you haven’t gotten there yet…
Looks like someone needs to read up on the lore. Classic pinecone pig@@lorddervish212quinterosara6
Really like the lore of the Gods in this series. They're so powerful even a fragment of them is able to twist and warp everything it's near. Gorgoroth nuking Nas'hrah, who himself nuked one of the New Gods.
And we can nuke Gorgoroth tho, funny how thing goes
@@diegodelacruzanaya537 "I'm literally an abstract concept of destruction, you can never beat me... You can't even really comprehend!"
"Mmm... Demolish old house to make new palatial estate... I do this for warlord in the Eastern Sanctuaries once, was very good pay... Seems quite comprehensible."
"Fuuuuuuuck... He knows..."
@@bruhistantv9806 Is this an adapted quote from somewhere?'
This gave me the idea that, the more you comprehend a God *without* that comprehension making you more fearful, the weaker they become to you.
Before, it's some barely understandable destructive force. You can only see the effects and broadly infer what lies behind the vail, causing this.
Then you understand it and pull down the veil. Either what you see was just as bad or worse than what you had anticipated or the fact you can now see what's causing the destruction is inherently diminishing the horror.
And with how concept-based the Gods are, that could have effects on them or rather you approaching them.
The Gorgoroth the player encounters is a fragment that remained in the world, it is not him per say
@@voidjockey82 I think there are some lore bits in Termina that seems to imply this, as humanity grew more advanced, the more complex these concepts became. After all, everyone may have a different interpretation on how it is to truly love or what true destruction is.
As a result these once "pure" concepts of love and destruction became distilled loosening the Old God's power
My theory is for why Daan is targetted by Rher to become a servant, only to be ordered to stop participating in the contest, is that he has the potential to become the champion of sulfur the cult wants. But the traces of Rher doesn't want the cult to get what they want out of spite for exploiting his power.
All hail Rher (???)
@@L16htW4rr10r tzznech buddy is that u?
No, he doesn't. That wouldn't make sense at all. Perkele clearly says if you don't kill ALL the contestants quickly enough during this trial, you aren't "bloodthirsty" enough and you aren't worthy of the cult of sulfer. Daan is not bloodthirsty at all, in fact i don't think he kills even a single person in termina. You can see during his dialogue in combat that he isn't used to combat at all. Its quite the opposite, he gave up parts of himself to save his girl. Thats the opposite of bloodthirsty, you can even see him tending to a wounded man in the 2nd area. If you look at his soul, you'll see its a "blank" soul. This is probably caused by the loss of a loved one breaking his spirit, and considering one definition of blank is "a space left to be filled" and pocketcats keen interest in emotion, it can be assumed this is the reason that pocketcat took over. It doesn't necessarily mean Rher "targeted" Daan himself, but his servant did. Pocketcat has always been oddly focused on happiness and depression, also in the first game, having a conversation with him about it gives you a unique status effect which is still unknown what it means or its effect.
@@cdrealist9398 He's fought in wars you know. There's deffo blood on his hands.
@@cdrealist9398Daan took part of a great war.
In the game, we are repeatedly told that Moonscorch is the result of Rher's light and influence coming into contact with a living being. However, a few things contradict this:
1: Rher is gone. As we've established, he left long ago. Perhaps his traces are enough to cause Moonscorch, but...
2: In real life, the moon doesn't actually emit light. It only reflects it. The source of this reflected light...?
The sun. Considering the Sulfur God's association with the sun and whatnot...
3. There's also a track in the game that is rather suspiciously named "Under the Sulfur Sun" which, correct me if I'm wrong, plays whenever you get sent to the top of the Hollow Tower after sleeping. And you're ALWAYS under "Rher's" "moonlight" during these intermissions.
With that all this in mind, is Moonscorch really "moon" scorch?
Might be a bit of a stretch, but it does fit rather nicely, doesn't it?
The God of The Depths works similarly to Rher and he has been dead for quite some time. My guess is the traces of an old god will still radiate echoes of it's influence within it's domains.
You see other examples of long gone gods having power if you partake in Marriages and summoned tree's. I feel Rher is only still prevelant because of his followers and the influence of the sulphur god keeping Termina festival alive.
The only sane non-contestants in Termina are sulphur cultists partaking in the festivitoes and Kaiser. Rher is essentialy exploited to find more people to sacrafice to the Sulphur Pits. I would not be surprised if the God of Fear and Hunger also had an anti christ figure of itself.
Additionally, the moonscorched say that the moonlight burns cold. What else is cold? The sun of Ma'habre.
Maybe Rher never exsisted? that would be the greatest trick wouldn't it?
@@anglosaxiphone8246"sane"
@@rosyfilling9484 Whoa that's interesting.
Where was this stated? The Mahabre Sun being cold
Samarie’s Moonscorched form has one eye on her face and her head is shaped like the sun.
Samarie is probably associated with being the eye of Ra because she is connected to the right side and holds the radiating soul. The female counterpart of the solar god, known as the eye of Ra, was created after Ra tore out his right eye as a punishment for humanity's revolt against him because Ra is a mortal god and was becoming senile at the time. Ra ages but is then reborn via a celestial body.
I think Samarie's propensity for masturbating has something to do with "The Lady of the Vulva," also known as Hathor, a facet of Ra's eye. Ra's rebirth is brought about by Hathor since she is also known as the Heavenly Cow. She would then be her father's daughter, mother, and consort.
She should prob get that checked out
@@Allen667sjja
I'm sure it'll be fine. Just slap some tiger balm on that sucker
I can't believed noone else pointed out how Dysmorphia's face looked like a sun.
I’m surprised you didn’t layer the Sulphur god symbol over All-Mers corpse. He’s making the bottom triangle with his hands, it’s been there looking us in the face this whole time.
Can you explain in more detail?
@@mojus2890 just eyeballing it, i believe the larger, bisected traingle divides the corpse's face into half with an eye and half without. the corpse's joined hands form the smaller triangle, and the cross could be a few things. 1. at the navel, the root chakra 2. at the side where Alll-Mer was wounded on the cross 3. at the genitals
@@nstvntt7410this comment made me realize how funny it would be if the all mer necromancy joke was a hint at option 3 all along
It's one single triangle. This is literally 2012 "illuminati confirmed" tier detective work.
The thought of Olivia doing the C ending appeals to me. Firstly, it's just the appeal of the most innocent character becoming the worst thing in the story. But also it doesn't seem that impossible, considering circumstances of the game. Firearms give her the most bloodlust out of all the character, and its not that hard to fall down the slippery slope of violence on this festival. I can see every other character having some sort of strong core to stay reasonable while cutting off heads of every enemy to improve their powers, but not with Olivia. Her surviving ending states that she actually becomes a better and more confident person after the Festival. But, most importantly, she has a Shadowed Soul, which seems like a very fitting soul for that kind of ending. Literally a Shadowed Soul, it's not getting closer than that, It gives a parallels between her and her sister who gained a different Godhood - a less evil one, I would say -, and it also gives us a parallel between them two and Allmer with his shadow Sulfur.
So while I'm sure she didn't became a Sulfur God in canon (it is obviously a pinecone pig, as you brilliantly proved in this video), I still find her character being the best to do it narratively. Or I just love fucked-up girls.
Amazing video btw.
if I had to pick one ending for her, it'd be A. The ending even has unique dialogue for her!
@@MautheDoog Olivia is so goated she has two very fitting endings for her.
@@MautheDoog i been thinking what If allmer and sulfur are basically the demiurge inspired what If logic is too? I mean If we look at logic final design she literally has a Crown that look like Sun rays what If she is the true god or Sun god child in this situation? 😮 What If Legarde is actually right?!!!!!?.
@@nobreluan4578 Now that's an interesting thought, it is a real mystery how Logic links to Rher and Sulfur...
@@MautheDoog lets Just look at the timeline *the god of fear and hunger* had hundreds of years of influence since her birth the cruel age is seemly 3 days to expire in termina and surprising she doesnt Care anymore sulfur and his followers dont seem to Care either she is not a threat to sulfur. And logic is getting prepared for her birth and needles and stitches ARE guarding the machines? Under perkele orders probably. Logic is a real threat to sulfur she is planing to basically Merge ALL living being minds onto the Matrix and in doing so ALL the gods influences would be sealed off except hers.
25:50 She spent her life studying Alll-mer... under the priests who worship Sulfur under the guise of Alll-mer. She might just be conditioned to associate the feel of Sulfur with Alll-mere
EDIT: probably this is what is said later in video idk I commented as I watched
EDIT EDIT: yeah ok
1:28 I just love how The Tormented One just does his thing and refuses to wear a robe when everyone else does. More power to him.
I mean he looks great in red. Gotta be at least proud of that
They convered nilvan 😢
Isnt he using a Skirt made of meat? its like he is usinga robe without breaking the "im a skinless beast made of muscles" so he uses a cute meat skirt instead
i always imagined that his skin was turned inside out. i imagine that wearing clothing would make that even more uncomfortable, but then again the guy lives in pain so im not sure that it matters.
@@M_Feitosa7 he simply IS his own robe
Sulfur (formally the Sun God) is still furious over losing to the once mortal All-mer at uno.
He has since challenged him to a game of RISK
@@Florjb0rjTheFloorboardOf course, he's not playing fair.
Well, he literally got uno-reversed
@Florjb0rjTheFloorboard Alll-mer won that one too. He has since issued a challenge to play CfNA
Huh? I thought amon was the sun god
My whole theory about the body in Ma-had is that it's Sulphur's original form after ascending. Much like his cultists he rose to even greater heights through death and came back a twisted form, it's why his spells seem to given even those who use them the ability to warp reality rather than mystical effects. Sulphur has likely ascended past the heights of the old gods through death and sacrifice, pulling his true potential all out much like how the player characters do through his hexan.
I hope we get a deeper exploration of Sulphur in a third game. They are genuinely the most interesting god in Fear and Hunger
Soo the god burning in the sulfur pit is actually alll-mer right?
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 I would argue that giving a definite answer to the topic introduced by Black Kalev wouldn't be really that interesting.
Learning which part of the man All-Mer was cast down and which ascended would reduce the mistery. After all, who else but them would have this knowledge?
I am much more interested in the implications of such a God as the Sulphur even existing and still being present in the world.
It's an extremely niche topic after all, and whoever built Logic is unlikely to know the God that well
I feel The Sulphur God is All-Mhers true self and he cast it aside to ascend. Fear and Hunger has alot of themes revolving around the nature of humans and how we have an ugly primal thoughts we keep buried.
I feel Sulphur is supposed to be a Satan figure that apposes All-mher who is more on par with The Demi-urge/ Yaldaboth who is the perfect yet imperfect god.
It’s implied that All-Mer was a vessel for the Sulphur God (Gro-Goroth) which is how All-Mer was able to ascend at all (the God of Fear and Hunger is able to ascend in a similar way using a human soul imbued within the body of an Old God, basically the reverse of All-Mer’s method.) The human that Sylvian asks Vitruvia to create is All-Mer who is imbued with the soul of her counterpart, Gro-Goroth. This is where the Jesus Christ parallels come in as Jesus is basically God in human form.
@@alexandragabitto2573it's alll-mer not all mer
Man, this game makes me want to dust off my Call of Cthulhu books and make a campaign with this pantheon. This game is all I like in horror.
Fear & Hunger truly is an amazing cosmic horror setting.
i have been planning something like this as well!
Wow mau, that theory involving the pinecone pig was truly mind blowing
What? Did we see the same video? It was awfully lackluster and has a ton of holes if you think about it for 5 minutes
someone didn't watch the whole video
@@CoobyPls I prolly missed it, can you point it out for me plz?
Pinecone pig has a truly mind-bending plot twist
I really liked these theories, it really gives a whole new level of perspective on a deity that could be otherwise overlooked entirely just playing through the game casually.
I think personally that the key tying this altogether is Rher. Rher is described as being the jealous kind who does not desire to share power, but yet in FH2, Rher shares its power with Sulfur to create the illusion of the festival. Perhaps it was always Vitruvia's intention to create the perfect man, a bridge to the old gods, as it was commanded to. The plan went exactly as Vitruvia expected, but at the time of ascension Rher's machinations made it so the sulfur would win in the coin toss for who became the dominate soul in the exchange. Wouldn't it makes sense for Rher to hedge it's bets on the god most likely to destroy all of humanity? For if the Alll-mer became all it was promised to be, then humanity would have reached its full potential, but clearly it did not. For if humanity had reached its potential, then why were the God of Fear and Hunger and The Logic needed? The God of Fear and Hunger and The Logic are both in their own ways a means to overcome the plans of the old gods and drive humanity towards breaking the cycle and progressing beyond the gods themselves. Perhaps Nilvan and Le'garde knew of the true origins of the Alll-Mer all along. After all, the God of Fear and Hunger was created using the exact process that sulfur was, they had to learn about how this was done from somewhere. While Nilvan was content in the creation of the ascended god, Le'garde, being human still, acted as humans do and desired more, putting him down the path of becoming Kaiser and finding a way to create a god completely devoid of the old gods power entirely, for even though the God of Fear and Hunger seems to be sympathetic towards humanity, it still carries a piece of the old gods with it and may still turn on them one day. The Logic offers a way to bypass the old gods power by linking the tremendous power of all human souls together into a force that rivals the primordial green hue, a font where all things can be created.
That's my two cents on the subject anyway.
Rher being friendly with Sulfur because he destroys humanity, or at least keeps them in their place is a pretty interesting idea. The Rher-Sulfur connection is definitely one of the weirdest mysteries left to uncover. I don't think Legarde knew of the true process of ascension during f&h1, or he probably wouldn't have tried to do it the wrong way. He probably realised his mistake afterwards, so changed course to make Logic...
I hope the next game has a whole sulfur skill tree in the hexen.
I think it would be cool if it was in modern times. There is tons of potential there.
@@azmunt6855 my theory is that it'll be during the cold war with the two sides being aligned with Logic and The god of Fear and Hunger
@@suetyhercules7717 I don't think Logic and the God of Fear and Hunger have any particular reason to oppose each other. They seem to be doing one thing, advancing humanity to progress.
Although I do not rule out that this is possible if the God of Fear and Hunger does not want to be replaced and does not want humanity to completely defeat these very fear and hunger through uniting into a collective mind with Logic. In addition, the third part of F&H in 1970-1990 sounds very cool, although this is less likely than in modern times (as Termina was originally planned).
And Logic too! However, in Termina, although she does not have a separate skill tree, she has more spells than "All-mer" :D Red Arc and Moth Swarm against only the Blood Sword (well, and a meme spell)
@@suetyhercules7717 can't do cold war. america is still vinland and uncolonized. that's how bremen wasn't beaten. if they were to colonize it after the war, it wouldn't be strong enough... but then again... vinland might be hiding some fancy old god magic... so it might still happen
my theory about the corpse in Mahabre was that its the original form of the sun god after he died to make all-mer. Sulfer ended up retaining that one eye trait through the accention though. The sun god only having one eye just kinda makes sense to me, since the sun is sometimes depicted as a giant eye in the sky, and it seems like the Sulfer god might still be alive if the laughing you hear when you die to the inverse thorns is actually them.
The single eye thing could also be linked to the eye or Ra, Ra being the Sun God in ancient Egypt mythos.
What if Vitruvia intended to create both? In different cultures there are different ideas on what is a perfect Human. Sulfur represents the perfect "apex" Human, deceitful, powerful, and a ruler, a lot like modern day celebrities that are glorified while Alll-mer is a humble, friendly, and giving person, someone you'd want to be friends with and look up to.
A year late but I haven't seen this take before. I like it and it has now been added to the headcanon.
46:00 the Vitruvian man wasn't an attempt of Leonardo da Vinci to draw a perfect man but to recreate the proportions that Vitruvius had discovered in the human body
Makes sense now! Pinecone Pig in the orphanage just seemly wanted to be sacrificed, because Pinecone Pig found out that Pinecone Pig was really Pinecone Pig!
The theory about how pinecone is a
ascended god was truly inspiring!
38:18 There is a historical pretext for a one-eyed, right eye remaining Sun God: Ra, from Egyptian Mythology. Ra was seen as the creator of the universe, and the source of all life, not just human life. The "Corpse of an Old God" looks like a marriage, and Ra merged with Osiris in the underworld. The connections are tenuous, but we don't know what inspired Miro. I just see a lot of parallels between this and Egyptian mythology as well.
I agree that the man in black is likely the 12th disciple of Allmer, but I always interpreted him more like Nosramus, being someone that saw the transformation of Allmer into an Ascended God, and being disillusioned by the process. I always took his idol carving warning to be similar to Nosramus' warning about the New God trap. He never gave me Sulphur God Cultist vibes.
Truly Pinecone Pig changed my whole perspective on the Fear & Hunger series and I hope the third game will go more in-depth in the mind of Pinecone Pig
I said this In the stream but, I think the reason why you don’t see the sun anymore in the city of Ma’Habre in the present is because it’s all underground now. When you’re at the entrance of the dungeons of fear and hunger it’s daytime but foggy. But, when you go into mahabre it’s all underground and it’s dark unless if you use the cube to go into the past where it’s all sunny
Brilliant video! The only thing I would add is that the alchemical symbol for Sulphur is part of the Sulphur God’s rune. Sulphur also has a second symbol that resembles Per’kele’s headpiece. Sulphur is actually one of the 3 heavenly alchemical substances - salt = body (base matter), mercury = mind, sulphur = (heavenly) soul. There’s a lot to be said about the colors that are prominently associated with the Gods, Prehevil, and the City of Mahabre (the green mist) itself. Even the Sulphur God’s origins reflect the alchemical image of the Green Lion Consuming the Sun. Said image represents how matter that is dipped into (green acidic) vitriol will be “purified” leaving behind only the gold within.
Also the mystery rune looks like Logic’s human form and Samarie’s Moonscorched one, both of which have the Radiating Soul…piNECONE PIG LIVES ONNNN
There are some problems with the theory, for instance, it is not o'saa's first time in Europa, by now he would have noticed that the western alll-mer isn't the easteen one and even so, he knows of average alll-mer rituals like confession, which all players know. One thing that I couldn't fit together is the fact that when you find "alll-mer" dead, he looks totally different from the god of sulfur.
And another thing which isn't as relevant. I do find that the god of sulfur/alll-mer isn't as powerful as you claim him to be, look at all the powers other gods can give, and the only things alll-mer does are stated in the video, and about the amount of rituals, clearly in the gauntlet there are more sacrifices for the god of the dephts. I think more than the most powerful old god, he works as a bond between men and old gods, for he gives access to their power, as the other old gods don't care that much about men.
One last thing, through careful reading of the skin bible, I understood that alll-mer was a god before dying, the meaning of this I could not decipher; but it may have something to do with the "molded" things in the void, which are presumed by the new gods at the table to be created by a wicked new god (I don't remember the exact citation but you can find it in the wiki), the smell of sulfur is also mentioned.
I just want to say that this video was awesome, the symbolism and gnosticism related topics was something I would have never figured out myself. And I always like to think that it was daan the one to get ending C, that's why pocketcat wants to make him a furry😊
Yeah, maybe Sulphur was the false god that fathered Alll-mer
I do think nashrah might be referring to the "sun god" when he says "Let's make a sacrifice for the fire god himself!"
that's a really good point!
He could be joking
I thought he was referring to himself with that line
Since Alll-mer can still be called upon using the perfect circle I do think he's an ascended god and the portals could be result of his magic, while sulfur can still be an ascended god.
But I do believe sulfur is more powerful than his brother and that they both live in the sulfuric pits, Alll-mer from when he was cast down and sulfur from after his body died since even his followers call the sulfuric pits his cage and when we go there we do see him in all his horror.
Sulfur could also be a power beyond or adjacent to the ascended gods since his ritual symbol in the mold apartments uses no circle.
For the alll-mer affinity also giving sulfur spells I believe their affinites overlap due to their dual nature, we might be calling upon alll-mer for the portals and sulfur for the blood sword and inverse crown.
Also I think it's fitting for alll-mer to have a dual nature somewhat similar to the trinity's triple nature and for a god of humanity to both represent human capacity for good and evil.
Wait we can see Sulfur God in his cage? When is it?
The pits themselves are called a cage by the followers. @@Khann_2102
@@Khann_2102when you get ending c. You descend into the Sulfuric pits, possibly his cage.
But what if they stood on equal footings just like how alll mer and Vinushka did
Pinecone pig theory was pretty sus ngl
I think the best description for Alll-Mer and Sulfur's relationship might be to reference an episode of Rick and Morty: Rest and Ricklaxation. In it, Rick and Morty are "purged" of all the toxins in their body, including the aspects of their personality that they consider negative... and those toxins took on a life of their own. If someone who views humanity itself as corrupt and impure goes through that process, then won't he be casting aside everything that makes him human?
Funny, I've been thinking of that episode every time I thought of the Sulphur God, but couldn't remember where I'd seen that concept before!
I don't know, that's a grimdark theme but it doesn't really mesh with the Christian ethos since the whole point is Jesus is a man who overcame sin despite being a man.
@@mojus2890 Yeah, but All-Mer is basically jesus but opposite given that he took violent revenge instead of promoting peace.
Need a very high IQ to make Rick and Morty references
You really need to do more of these videos.
It's your best content by FAR.
You speak calmly, clearly, it's pleasant.
From what I see this can be somewhat explained by the ability of Sulphur to cause Termina using Rher’s remnant divinity.
It could be that All-mer in a way never stopped being one as in him and Sulphur are forever connected and that is why both are inconsistent(and with the two aspects existing either gave an opportunity to Sulphur to act or for All-mer given whoever won) so Sulphur could have corrupted one of the versions and grew stronger or he took discreetly the church of All-mer in Europa(or just their leadership and key points) and in the limits of Prehevil Sulphur can interfere with prayer to All-mer to give spells and that is what reverse crown of thorns is.
There is also the matter that in Fear and Hunger it was a matter that the power of old gods was too incompatible with humanity so “Vitruvia having designed All-mer” itself is debatable since the necessity for Logic is that Ma’habre was supposed to have been the lizard’s domain and never properly worked for human new gods making that the age of human new gods was an eternal loop before Fear and Hunger arose because Ma’habre would fall apart and the capability to become a new god could only be accessed in the throne of the past. Logic being an attempting path of divinity to humans(though it’s an obviously a no that Logic will fix humanity, maybe it being composed by a radiant instead of a enlightened will make the third game be about how the age of information is lacking in constancy and truth).
Was not expecting a video of so high quality and length about the sulfur god, great video!
Came for Sulfur lore and got another damn pinecone pig theory, thanks mau!
Great video, never thought the whole Sulfur God thing goes this far. Also, the Pinecone pig theory was really good, it certainly holds its ground once you start thinking about all the minor details surrounding it.
One thing that I didn't hear discussed is the parallel to Legarde? There's the obvious "perfected" man trying to ascend, but also the potential parallel in the resurrection gone wrong and the vengeful brutal Legarde of D'Arce's S-ending. Of course, is this a parallel or was this also a plot by the Sulfur god himself? All of this also begs the question - the what happened to the good side?
And I could be mistaken, but it's also curious that you can't seem to get the New Gods of FH1 to talk about Alll-mer.
I think the new gods are scared about the sulfur god because he became so powerful that he couldnt affect the real world in a way like the old gods who left the world, he was so "pure" in his hatred and evilness that he has to use proxy methods like followers doing sacrifices and trying to channel him for him to have an effect on the world, perkele being the perfect example of it, the termina death game is probably the way the sulfur god can find a worthy vessel for him to bring terror into the world
While the next game may likely address these questions and shed more light on the Sun God, I have the suspicion that the expanded content for F&H2 could provide some hints, if not even more questions
I think that we can actually determine the identity of the sun god with all we have now
@@MautheDoog true, lol. But still, I wonder what else was on his mind
The theory about the pinecone pig was amazing!
In irish celt mythology the grandpa of lugh was the leader of the femorians and he had a Terrible one eye that burnt like the sun when he opened it, his grandson lugh is depicted bald and shining brightly without devastation, both have aspects that inspired both all mer and sulfur.
It is interesting that lugh only wins against baelor by profecy and trickery shooting a pebble into baelors eye and turning it onto baelor himself destroying him, later he takes over as king through beating the old one in strategy game, although here the sun god (baelor) uses said trickery and takes over all mer (lugh) and his name to reign over the followers of all mer.
Man, that pinecone pig theory was the key to everything! Truly amazing.
Amazing lore video Mau, honestly the gestalt and replicant theory is pretty amazing
definitely need to look more into these!
Gestalt and replicant? 🙃
Props for not just recapping known lore, but also coming up with genuinely compelling and interesting theories
7:55 what an amazing name for Olivia
Your theories surrounding pinecone pig are perhaps some of the most interesting and eye opening things I’ve seen on this platform. Absolutely incredible.
Pinecone Pig theory gave me chills, man. I won't see that thing the same way ever again. Sheesh, more scary than anything combine in the lore so far. Loved it
I had suspected some of the pinecone pig theory, but definitely missed that connection! That's it, though. I'm totally convinced, and can't tell if I'm more vindicated or more kicking myself for missing it
Pinecone pig having more in common with the sulfer then vinushka is pretty interesting
If the sulphurous god is the "other half" of all-mer's humanity, as implied, wouldn't that mean that it is just as much of a full ascended god of all-mer? just one that was banished away intentionally so that its influence would be weakened.
I question whether or not all of Europa worshipped (intentionally or not) the sulphurous god. It seems more likely that Prehevil is a unique place. Marina was used to it, having grown up there. It's also possible that the influence of the sulphurous god grew stronger after she left. (If it was always this bad it would be hard to imagine a whole city being built lmao) Prehevil is certainly special somehow, being the location of the Termina festival and also being the place where the Yellow King needed to set up the Logic device.
I also think I remember that, in general, belief in Gods and the powers of magic had faded dramatically around the world since the birth of Fear & Hunger. The faith that had previously been placed in godly figures was instead put towards the creations of man.
Yeah it does look like there's two Ascended Gods running around thanks to Alll-Mer ascended, and imo Sulfur is the stronger. I realised after uploading that I forgot to mention Marina studied at the Vatican and still didn't notice anything wrong, so either the Vatican worships Sulfur or there's no presence there at all. But yeah you're right about belief fading as a whole
45:04 on the clock:
1 - Amon
7 - Turkilo
10 - Sarko
Source: inner game resources
What do you think about relation between Rher and Sulphur? The Pocketcat's Room have Moon and one-eyed Star, my hypothesis that this Star symbolize Sulphur.
I suspect there's a connection between Rher and the Sun God, although exactly what is hard to know... Rher's probably still mad about the Sun God dying tbh
@@MautheDoogsun and moon gods are always closely linked in mythology, I would be surprised if there was no connection. I mean they are almost always depicted as siblings or lovers
@@MautheDoogit'd be funny if thats why rher opposes humanity so much.
I watches your video again twice just to reassure all of the gathered information points you pointed out with the lore of the Alll-mer, the rest of old and ascended deities (including Sylvian and Fear and Hunger), vitruvian, sulfur, City of Mahabre and I do need to lines all of these:
-The habit of Alll-mer molding and carving idols might be a reference to both Apocryphal Nag Hammadi and Islamic stories of Jesus' miracles of molding living birds out of clay, probably to posits Alll-Mer's traits to be the superior traits of union to be the first ascended deity within Fear and Hunger universe
-The supposed corpse of Alll-mer when visited via time travel into the past is also interesting considering of how the corpse have only one eye and you theorised it to be the possible corpse of sulfur deity instead, which sulfur deity associated to be Antichrist-like figure in the F&H Universe akin to how the Islamic Eschatological Narratives (basically the Sayings of Prophet Muhammad himself) to have the Dajjal/Antichrist to be one-eyed, able to do many supernaturally magical and violent bloody feats including resurrecting the dead to fool the believers into disbelieving in Allah and bring more humans (alongside djinns and other creatures) to be at his side as the agency of Iblis (The Devil)
-Vitruvia figure being connected to Da Vinci sketch of his supposed "Ideal Man" also fits the Sethian (and to certain but different extent of Valentinian) Gnostics views of there's different sides of Adam, as Adam divided between Spiritual Adam (The Holy Land of Adamantine) which is still below Pleroma (Fullness of God) but having strengths and abilities superior to Yaldabaoth/Demiurge and his Archons children, with Vitruvia acting more like Demiurge and sulfur deity acts similar to one of the Archons of Yaldabaoth, as it's clear that you only look into Yaldabaoth but not of the ridiculously exhausting lists of Archons, like I'm not kidding, depending on the real life Gnostic groups, the identification of Archons can be goes as far from Greco-Roman pantheon, to Kemetic, Near-Eastern and Hindu Vedic pantheon depending of how Gnostic Christian groups and offshoot religions (akin to the surviving mandaeism to the now-extinct Manichaeism goes), and going back to the multiple-sides/dimensions of Adam, aside from the Spiritual type of Adam, there's also "Soulful"/Psychic/Nafesh type of Adam which serves as somekind of blueprint by The Archons to construct the Adam from Clay, this Psychic Adam is what kind of lowly Soul which Yaldabaoth snatched (or given) by his mother Sophia (which Sophia being the last of the Aeons of The Pleroma) to breath the psychic Adam into the carnal/matter/Clay Adam so he can became animated and grow awareness, somekind the assistance of Demiurge to bring Adam to life involves a daughter of Sophia called Zoe (Life), or also known as Eve in Sethian Exegesis, Vitruvia is still acting as Demiurgic figure in Fear and Hunger but it might also can be referring to one of the Archons instead, as Sylvian and her husband Gro-Goroth also acts like a balancing cycles akin to the more Cainite (as in Gospel of Judas cosmology) of Samael and his consort Nebroel as the ruling 13 Angels of the Underworld (yes, I'm not making that up, the roles of infernal angels, pagan gods and devils are interchangeable similar to how Iblis, Djinns and Shaiyatin were made of fire and "smokeless fire" respectively)
The lore(s) of various Gnostic groups asides from radical dualism of Manichaeism (Marcionism excluded since it's not "Gnostic" per-se and still relies of "Faith over Works" instead of prioritising Knoweldge (Gnosis) above still important Faith) are oddly enough Monotheistic with their texts serves more of Exegetical (Interpetive) of the Gospel during the diversity of Early Christianity, only that it has semantical differences at using terms like "divinities", "gods", "angels", "devils", "demons" and every creatures below Pleroma interchangeably depending of their natures and how they could overturn their own impulses to ascends or descends, the Valentinians have distinctions between creatures belonging to Pleroma, creatures belonging to Kenoma and creatures belonging to Hysterema
Although into other tangent, the crucifixion graffitti being of Donkey might either referencing Jesus riding Donkey to Jerusalem around 3-7 days prior to supposed crucifixion, or to be materials which Christian Gnostic groups utilises Donkey-headed motives to mock the Roman pagans back as one of the Archons in Sethian texts akin to Apocryphon of John and Hypostasis of The Archons to be "donkey-headed" Elaios, with his feminine name to be "Jealousy" (which might cross referenced the antiquity Greco-Roman pagans' jealousy of the rise of Christianity alongside one of the traits of the old testament deity to be a "jealous god", Islam rejects the idea of both Crucifixion, Atonement Theology (which involves typical mainstream Christian Eucharist and sacrifices) and "Jealous god" though, much akin to Basilidean Gnostics and some Sethian texts which believed "Substitutionist" theory of Jesus never being crucified, with either Simon of Cyrene or one of his volunteering disciples
However, Fear and Hunger might going full blown pessimist that it's only taken the more "lovecraftian"/Dead Space-like pessimism that it's taking more of the spiteful and bitter aspects of Cainite, Borborite (this group might influences the very sexually explicit orgy and defilement imagery in F&H) and Abelite groups of Gnostic groups, thus even some groups akin to Sethians had beef and wrote polemical texts in "Testimony of Truth" within one of the 13 Codices of Nag Hammadi Library
Hence, I'm really sorry for the wall of texts to elaborate of the tying into different connections, but I feel like I need to explains these differing Gnostic groups, their texts and their entire Archeological Theological connections to it, as real life Religions and Faiths in MENA region are very interconnected during Antiquity to early Medieval age since both Essenes' Dead Sea Scrolls and Mandaeans further, to the point that even a single group's doctrines, teachings, cosmology, rites and cultures can be let's just say, too complex
To anyone which reads my comment through to the end, thank you so much for reading my thought process and God bless
Thank you for the massive and thoughtful response!
Miro is knowledgeable about a lot of religions, so I'm not surprised he's referencing Islam as well. I know very little about it, so thank you for pointing out the similarities between Sulfur and the Dajjal, as well as the clay birds.
The Gnostic connections go ever further than I realised. Perhaps I'll need to spend some more time studying the old heresies...
Miro really set out to make a religion in his games as complex as real world ones it seems. Thank you for explaining so much more about it, I appreciate it!
@@MautheDoog This is also to note that both Islam and some Gnostic groups from Basilideans to some Sethian texts also believes Jesus survives Crucifixion too, all while Apostle Peter was crucified upside down, as Peter being the bedrock of today's Catholic Church (and the keyholder to Paradise), all while one of Sethian texts that denies Jesus crucifixion is form Coptic Apocalypse of Peter from Nag Hammadi's 13 Codices
Thank you so much for the responses, I'm Muslim so I have curiosity to learn all of the pre-Islamic histories to connect it with Islam, although as more of personal pursuits and out of personal Religious obligations to "Seek Knowledge, even if it as far as China" to paraphrase it in a Hadith
And again, Fear and Hunger might leaning into the darker and pessimistic Cosmology of Abelite, Cainite and Borborite Gnostics with possible Manichaean Cosmic Tragedy which are actual radically dualistic (with belief in two opposing Pre-existent Powers), Gospel of Judas is seeing Demiurge as an Angel than of separate god, meanwhile groups akin to later Sethians used "god(s)" similar to how Buddhists views "devas" as one of the higher beings of Samsaras (contrary to Hinduism views devas as supreme beings), or Muslims views Djinns and Satans (Oddly enough Djinns to have possible root to Latin Roman usage of Genii, hence there's terms of "Genius" from Genius Loci, somekind of more neutral spirit holding their own regional dominions, much like of Pauline's views of pagan gods as "gods of the nations" or Islam's concept of "Taghut")
Although to note that Sylvian also have pattern of similar behaviours to Elden Ring lore of The Crucible, where the establishment of Crucible as the outer god prior to The Greater Will and it's proxies (Elden Tree, Elden Beast and Elden Ring and the lesser outer gods asides from Frenzied Flame, Ranni ascension to a separate lesser outer god/ruler with her consort by subverting The Greater Will in "Age of Stars" Ending, and The aforementioned Crucible) were pretty much focuses on the growth of life for the sake of life, even if it causes overgrowing and overbearing the acts of life to the point of birthing beings suffering with "omen curse" in the lands between too just to add further with extra sources
Very interesting insights! I just learned about the donkey-headed drawing of Christ, coincidentally. The translation is something like “a Christian worshipping his god.” It was to mock Christians because the idea of worshipping a god who died-especially in that way-was so ridiculous to the Romans.
I am Christian (Eastern Orthodox), so I believe in the crucifixion, but I understand why it is difficult to believe. Eastern Orthodox have a different understanding of its meaning than most Protestant and Catholic theologies; we believe Christ died for us as an act of healing and purification (“clean” vs. “unclean”)-and a lot more-but we don’t believe in penal substitutionary atonement.
Anyway, I find religions deeply interesting subjects and love learning more about both mine and others!
@@elusivemayfly7534 Oh yeah the donkey inscription which is also the oldest (surviving) inscription of Jesus! I remember It as a Roman man drawing a friend and taunting him saying "Alexamenos worshipping his god" rather than all of Christianity but It did show how to an average Roman how worshiping someone who was executed was just not well seen at all without even going as far as talking about the powers at the time persecuting them.
I didn't know you did more than playthroughs. An *hour-long* lore analysis video. Holy shit. You've got every ounce of my support and loyalty now, I'll never question my faith 🙏🏿 💯
The theory about pinecone pig isnt as compelling as i thought it was, but it is a possibility. I wish to point out that All-mer , the sun god and the sulfur god can form a trinity ,mirroing the christian trinity with the Sun(Creator),All-Mer(Son) and the Sulfur God(holy spirit).
That theory about pinecone pig was absolutely amazing! you did an excellent job in your research with the limited amount of hints you got just from pinecone pig and honestly i think i came out of the video understanding a bit more of the F&H universe and its lore (impressive because i am pretty dumb lmao)
Anyways good vid can only wait for more with excitement ^-^
What seems very interesting is that if Sulfer won out and is the greater part of the ascension of All-Mer, something clearly went wrong for him given he is now described as trapped and raging in the Sulfer Pits.
He is not still not the conquering king, maybe he tried to refine himself yet further and failed in some way?
I don't think Ma'habre is dark now due to All-Mer's/Sulfur's demise, but rather the fact it's underground now. You have to keep in mind that the Dungeons of Fear and Hunger ™ are built right on top of the city itself. Everything else sounds pretty logical tho. Good work!
Mahabre isn't actually inside our reality, but between our world and the green hue (where the Old Gods came from). The dungeon is built on (or caused) a fracture in reality which lets you walk into Mahabre, but the "main" method is dying or dreaming to get there
When comparing the sun god and the sulfur god, one big problem arises for me. The fact is that the cross itself is a solar symbol and very often it symbolizes the sun, at the same time the symbol of the inverted sun (or star, or cross) means something dichotomous to the solar. It is not about the dichotomy of the Sun and the Moon, but rather about the dichotomy of Christ and the Antichrist. So in this regard, I think that identifying the sun with the sulfur god is not very true in itself, but there is still ground for thinking about the nature of the sun god.
The inverted cross in Christianity tends to be Peter's cross as It was inverted, I feel the holywoodian anti christic meaning would not be as interesting without a form of red herring from It, you're expecting the anti and It turns out It was the sun influenced rejected parts or something...
i think something interesting to consider is perhaps that maybe the corpse found in FnH1 is indeed alll-mer - and that his missing eye is one he gave to sulfur when creating him. maybe alll-mer really is dead. maybe sulfur killed him and is all that remains
Naming the girl in the wheel chair hotwheelz 💀
This is truly mind-blowing wtf miro is amazing for creating such interesting lore and the part where you pointed out the body of "all-mer" at the city of Ma'habre in the first game and how it only has one eye is truly mind-blowing!!!! I love it so much, and connecting it eith something Wormgirl said in one of the 8h live with frapollo about the why it can be affected by necromancy is just cheffkissssss thank you so much for this amazing video dude
The Theory on pinecone pig was truly a masterpiece
I mean the way in which for a seemingly joke item it is so masterfully interwoven in with the lore is just the cherry on top of it all
its potential connections with Sulfur and all-mer was just absolutely insane but so obvious when playing the game I feel stupid for missing such obvious clues left behind by the game dev
The divine symbols on the clock in termina are interesting, there are some we never saw and the symbol of sulfur comes before allmer. Perhaps power, perhaps order of Ascencion? Or perhaps its the time. Where its located between 12am/pm, also known as 00h, and 1h. Like it's the first thing to have been created in the year 0., the new order of humanity. Allmer then came after. Perhaps the one casted away is pretending to be the other, still, as to gather followers and power. Or perhaps allmer indeed died and was absorbed by sulfur, his other part, with it's benevolence discarded and distorted, polymorphed into sickening perversion through sacrifices
What about the Janitor? He has blue paint too
Why Janitor is found only in the Looney World? What's his deal with the cubes? Does it have something to do with the fact LOGIC has a hidden looney appearance?
Probably! The cubes are one of the biggest remaining mysteries tbh
Fantastic work! I always love hearing about Gnosticism. It blew my mind when I researched it myself for one of my own videos.
I can't wait for more fear and hunger lore videos!
the theory about pinecone pig was amazing
I am unconvinced that Sulfur God is stronger than All-mer. I think it's the other way around. It's just in Prehevil the cult subverted All-mer's worship and turned it into cult of Sulfur. It just looks like Sulfur is powerless to do anything and is just lashing out via his cultists. His rage and vengeance originate from his impotence.
Sulfur is one of the scariest things i have ever heard, i dread to think what will happen when we fight him in the third game or something like that, i hope that happens because everything points to this, i think that the ending c is the cannon ending and one of the participants became a worthy vessel for the sulfur god, i think that he cant interact that much with the world and people worshipping him are trying to bring him back, after all the older gods left the world and only have traces of their power for a reason, its probably a secondary effect of becoming THAT powerful, if the ending c is the cannon ending it means whichever contestant won would become a worthy vessel for the sulfur god to produce suffering on the world, the third game will probably have us fight against him in this form, this would be completely hopeless but it would fit the themes so well
I really like your analysis on the Sulfur god and Alll-Mer's secret relationship!
Small note - Gnosticism isn't one religion. Gnosticism is an archeological term to describe a variety of different unconnected sects of early Christianity that deviated from the orthodoxy of the Catholic Church (and they even saw the Catholic Church as decadent and unholy) in their disavowal of the old testament and greater focus on the New testament. It's better to say "Gnostic sects believed" rather than "in Gnosticism" unless you're referring to modern practitioners.
But your parallels are well thought out, and are backed up with great in-game evidence! The idea of Europe following a false god also parallels this - like I said, many early Christian sects across Europe believed in divine humility and poverty that the Catholic Christians did not follow (i.e., they did not buy into Prosperity Doctrine), and they thought the Catholics represented the antichrist. The first crusades of the Catholic Church purged these early Christians who followed non-orthodox scriptures like Judas, Thomas, and Mary. This fits very well into this story - that the Europan Alll-mer faith was tainted from the beginning. Much like the hypocrisy of the Roman Empire taking on the faith of the man they killed, the Sulfur God represents the hypocritical usurping of Alll-mer after he was killed by those same authorities. It was corrupted from the start!
Wow Mau, the theory regarding the pinecone is truly interwoven with the one of the Gnostic connections in both games, kudos to you, truly a mesmerizingly foreboding video game atmosphere descriptions to touch into the core of human mental and material conditions betwixt to constitute the unity of human components to signify the signs of life on this hostile Earth, it's remarks of the more Sethian-leaning Gnostic interpretations of it, despite Gospel of Judas sources tend to possibly closer to Cainite group which many Sethians abhors, the pinecone involved to rejuvenate the whole insights to these characters and other entities within the entire settings of both games too deserves to be known more by more players and viewers
The théory about pinecone pig was soooo great. ..
Spoiler alerte but who could have think about that ? The wood from his tree piercing christ on the cross, the missing eye of Sulfur creating a immortal being ... It's true that most of the Monsters are made of flesh but still wood (or végétal like design) is Always présent in some Monster.
I Guess it's some kind of infection among the lesser beings
I really enjoy your content in general, but deep dive theories are especially chefs kiss, so thank you for being you. I got pretty excited about the pinecone pig stuff, ngl. When you were first dropping threads I was like "no... no way he's going there..." but by the end I came around, it's very possible. Pinecone-Pig-Possible.
When you mentioned pinecone pig I thought it was going to be a joke. Turns out the joke was on me because you opened my eyes to how essential he is to understand the connection between Sulfur and Alll-mer. Brilliant work!
It's strange, it looks like the corpse of sulpur's hands look like they should be wrapped around something, like they're stabbing a weapon deep into their own chest.
Maybe All-mer took control and ended himself?
It occurred to that if this is true, there’s one major difference between the Sun King and the God Of The Depths.
Willingness.
The God Of The Depths was unwilling and lost out on being the dominant aspect of the ascended god.
The Sun King was so willing that he somehow died to a human wounded to the brink of death.
And from the sound of it, Allmer wasn’t; he was trying to suppress himself and focused on what he shouldn’t be which speaks of at least reluctance.
Finally, for the god making the perfect human foreseeing what would happen; Sulphur is trapped and raging, right? His perfect ascension failed somehow and he died. In the short term it appears to benefit him, but descriptions of him now hardly match the omnipotent force he was supposed to be: caged and burning.
What are a few centuries of deception against an eternity of victory to a god? Maybe the old Allmer walked away with all the immortality but no expressed powers, just as was intended by his design?
Sulfur is destined to stay forever coping at seething at the patience of his brother
I see what you did there, calling Daan the Bachelor.
Tbh Daan is less annoying than Dankovsky
@@TryinaD He is both a Bachelor and a Haruspex! ^^
@@TryinaD Dankovsky was intentionally written to be a pompous insufferable piece of work that nobody would ever like interpersonally -- so Daan better be less annoying to deal with! Its a low bar to cross!
@@TryinaD Dankovsky was amazing in the first game. Especially when you play as him. In all other iterations, well...
@@Leone525 I mean as a person, not as a character.. if I met him IRL he would be so punchable
thought pocketcat was a true Rher servant..... I believe the exact moment the god of the depths dies signals the opening of its mouth. A few mithras references too, but i'm not sure about buying the demiurge bit, i'll look into that its intriguing. I had never heard of such. think about Marina's fathers dialogue with the radiant girl, he subtly admits to being a sulfur priest. I thought the original sun god killer was named Betel. My final quip, is that i love this photo 27:43.
I am at awe with how a game can have such a deep and interesting lore and mythology
Can gods disguise themself as human? Maybe the man in black is Vitruvian and his subtely questioning you for have a... outer point of view on All-mer and Sulfer. Maybe Vitruvian is still tormenting itself for causing the ascension of Sulfer.
The Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing the World He Didn’t Exist
I don't even play this game, but these lore videos are pretty fun. Love this sort of stuff. Honestly I thought the pinecone pig thing was a bit of a stretch though. But maybe it's because I didn't actually play the game idk.
After watching this video, I love F&H much more. You deserve a more subscribers for that! Please, continue!
I think the theory about the pinecone pig could really be deserving of it's own video but overall great work!
the pinecone pig theory was right on the nose!! it's definitely one of the most interesting and thought provoking theories i've heard about f&h, and it honestly recontextualized my entire view of the same. great job mau!
It’s like Silent Hill and Bloodborne had a baby aesthetically. I’ll probably never play this game, but I love the art and lore. Moreeee lore videos please!! ❤
Omg dude! The theory about Pinecone Pig is amazing! Makes so much sense... Keep up the good work!
Personally I think the theory about the pinecone pig is good in concept, but failed in execution
Just wanted to say thank you for your hard work on compiling this. It is so entertaining to watch. Subscribed! :]
Makes sense, even tho i thought that the black man was the devil or something for being a goat, but man the pinecone pig theory, even tho we see our beloved pet as a benevolent being, we should have know he had something to do with the sulphur god, after all he can take items from extremely powerful beings with ease, how can a little pinecone with stick legs do that if not in the serve of a major power like the sulphur god
I am not sure if this was an actual inspiration but in my interpretation the whole relationship of old, new and ascended gods is built on the philosophical concept of dialectics. Imo almer is the perfect example of this. Dialectics is a theory of phenomenology. As in how things come to happen and it has a few key aspects that I believe are reflected consciously in the world of fear and hunger. Some of those aspects include for example the law of motion. As in nothing is static nothing ever just stays, it's ever developing and ever changing hence the cycle of the new gods periodically replacing eachother.
Another concept is that of quantative into qualitativ change. Hence how the slow decay of the new gods leads to a drastic shift when they get replaced by new ones.
And most importantly in the case of the ascended gods the concept of the negation of the negation. By far the hardest concept to comprehend because it's tied to another aspect that of unity of opposites also know as the universality of contradiction. The presence of action dictates the presence of its opposite. For example in maths integral and differentiential, in physics action and reaction. Negation of the negation describes how these contradictions play out. If you have one force pushing in one direction and another pushing in the opposite one will be dominant do to some factor and will triumph over the other in the resolution, however it never triumphs fully. The synthesis of thesis and antithesis always contains elements of both. The ascended gods are just that. The negation of the negation, they represent the resolution of the contradiction of human and the gods in a new being containing elements of both.
The position of the old gods imo would shot what type of dialectics would be at play. Historically first came hegelian dialectics and later came marxian dialectics. Hegel tried to understand where progress comes from but as a man of faith his dialectics started with the actor influencing the world who then influences him in turn. Marxian dialectics puts that on its head the world(the material) influences and the actor and motivates him into action. Fear and hunger is fascinating in how in its lore it combines both. Yes there is an actuator, in lore Gods are real but interestingly they all represent elements of the material. The gods of creation and destruction ofcs represent a dialectic in of themselves but for example the goddess of fear and hunger represents two things that are both very material and it's making those materials pressures known that influences people to strive for progress.
Another thing I find amazing is that almer's Ascension shows the principle of the law of motion perfectly. In both hegel and Marx one thing was clear when a contradiction resolves it doesn't stay "in balance". The synthesis is colored by what was the dominant aspect of the original contradiction and this will birth a brand new contradiction in of itself which will eventually lead to a new synthesis and so on. Hence how the synthesis of two beings human and God lead to the creation of not one, but two new beings. The lore of this game is so complex but vague at the same time that it allows for such interesting reading of it. It's what makes theory crafting so fascinating
The Sulfur God reminds me of some kind of concept in Judaism, that good and evil complement each other as the fragmented portions of God's consciousness and that uniting the two into something else, along with anything that operates on duality is the way forward. I think it's called Ein Sof.
With all the parallels to Christianity, I wonder if Sulfer not having a used name is a reference to how the Devil/Satan is named Lucifer, but nobody uses it. Even Satanists and the Chruch of Satan don't reference the name Lucifer.
I don't know what the Pinecone pig has to do with All-mer myself, but it's worth considering.
The Pinecone Pig theory was good! But... Maybe the true Pinecone Pig was the friends we made along the way
This is some discord meme or Twitter meme and I don't understand it but I'm very happy for all of you
@@emosarah7 It's an old cartoon/tv/movie trope. When the characters finished an adventure where they had to make some sacrifice (sometimes saving their friends) instead of gaining some material gain.
It's pretty cliche and became a meme, but this reference became popular as people started joking that at the end of animes like One Piece it will end with the characters saying that the real treasure was friendship all along.
Not sure if anybody noticed, but there could be another parallel with Jesus, between him and the empty scrolls. Jesus is shown as a "servant of man" in some occasions. So, in F&H fashion, Alll-mer might be forced to literally serve man, and "O lord give/teach" would be more of a command and less of a prayer. Following the idea of Alll-mer being the weaker part of the ascension, the items he cannot grant through empty scrolls would actually be outside of his reach.
that's an interesting idea
Fantastic video, thank you so much for all your hard work :)
This is a topic I've been trying to find information on but haven't seen much. Great video, pinecone pig theory was incredible.
I think we're in alchemy territory more than we are simple gnosticism. Sulfur is one of the tria prima, the prime elements of matter. Paracelsus' tria prima symbol is worth comparing I think.
Sulfur is the masculine changing force involved in decomposition, breaking down crude matter to pave the way for transformation.
This does suggest sulfurs creation as intentional by Vitruvia, who seems to stand in for the alchemist shepherding in humanity's consciousness. But it's likely not the intended end point.