High Speed Rail In The Pacific Northwest: Connecting Portland, Seattle and Vancouver!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2023
- 📝 Substack: geographybygeoff.substack.com/
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High speed rail makes the most sense, when it's able to connect major population centers in a more convenient way than either personal vehicles or airplanes. With this in mind, the Pacific Northwest makes for almost a perfect scenario for high speed rail. In this video, we break down passenger rail efforts, current rail infrastructure, and future plans and the outlook for high speed rail for the region.
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fast train (HSR). Beijing to Xinjiang will be completed in 2016. Moscow to Kazan will be completed in 2023. And it is planned that in 2035 . 7,000 km of fast trains from Moscow to Bajing will be completed cutting the journey from 7 days via Trans Siberian reilway, to 36 hours HSR
sorry millions. the initial project was cost estimated at 2.4 billion. they are now at 6.2 billion with constant pumping of money without candid voter consent and accountability on part of the contractors' chosen nor the lobbied officials that are benefiting choosing of those contracted companies. it's estimated that another 2-3 billion will be slapped not including the 25 years it will need to undergo heavy maintenance due to the location and immenent risk of earthquake.
Thank you for talking about an idea that I’ve been talking about for several years!! The PNW is a perfect region for HSR and it is a prime way of increasing the economic viability to the entire region. The North/South route makes a lot of sense but I’m a firm believer that going East/West to Central Washington and Oregon would allow for commuters to buy low price land, live in a lower crime area, help the industries on the West side and would allow a eastern Washington airport to help offload the SeaTac congestion and keep travel into Seattle or Portland to similar travel times as traveling by car.
@@aprilmayjoon lol!!! Money did you mention money? The United States of America just came out with the 1.7 trillion dollars spending bill. They gave 800 billion dollars to the military. That's alot of bombs considering the fact that it's peace time. Why couldn't they give the military 500 billion dollars? That would give 300 billion dollars towards Highspeed rail projects all over this so called mighty country. The mighty United States of America spent 200 billion dollars on the space shuttle program, well where's the space shuttle at now? Ok we wount talk about the billions of dollars the United States of America is about to spend to put some fool on mars and for what? If the United States of America can put a man on the moon to jump around and pick up rocks at a cost of billions of dollars, they can definitely build highspeed rail for improvement of infrastructure. That little 2. Some billion dollars you're talking about is nothing but dirt money compared to the big money America just blows away into nothing. So much for costs. Texas just got approved for 20 billion dollars for highspeed rail from Dallas to Huston. Lets seevwhat they will do. America needs highspeed rail. Remember that the next time you see on the news people who are stranded at airports due to cancellations. Remember that the next time you're sitting in traffic trying to get somewhere. Highspeed bullet trains and maglev super train technology, the new american dream.....
Great content. Because of Airline Commuting there will never be HSR in the Chinese, French/European, Japanese sense of the term but yes, absolutely in the USA sense of the term of on or about 80-120 miles per hour along certain stretches at certain time with what stands in the way of this if you will being how important commercial rail ironically enough your *"Lincoln Line"* being the most poignant example specifically Burlington Northern and moving 737 Air Frames from Kansas to Seattle for final assembly. There also be of course mass transit in the form of Rail, Ferry and now Uber/Tesla and who knows what new Boeing now has planned as high speed commuter flight well in excess of 300 miles per hour. Time of course does depend on so many other items besides just pure speed tho you are right about that.
I am a Amtrak Locomotive engineer and I hope we see more HSR. High Speed Rail is awesome and the US cannot keep continuing to build more roadways.
I live in Bellingham and would definitely use a train service if ran more frequently and was faster !
Highly agreed ! The "Number One Country" is near dead last in efficient mass transit. It's the reason my Aspie arse has only one vehicle, an electric motorcycle . . . in North Central Washington. 🤓🇺🇦😏
I'm glad that the Cascades service is getting an upgrade with new rolling stock. Riding the East Coast rail cars is rough.
@@pdxmack actually The horizon fleets was also used in California in the '90s but most horizon cars were originally Midwest. Also the Midwest used to have the turboliners in the 1970s before they all merged to upstate New York and parts of the Northeast corridor until they retired in about 95. The east coast and the Midwest corridors is mostly known for its Amfleets until recently when they are getting the Siemens equipment. Some of the reasons why Amtrak is forced into using horizon and amfleet in the Pacific Northwest is due to the retirement and destruction of the high-speed Spanish Talgo equipment. What I can assume is Amtrak is going to basically use Siemens arro and basically just paint it in an Amtrak Cascade scheme and use a modified Pacific Northwest dining menu. I assume most of the inside is going to be standard to the rest of the USA and Canada as via also ordered some Siemens equipment for their corridor lines in Ontario and Quebec. And Siemens is the backbone of Florida's airplane like train service bright line. They're guaranteed for at least 20-30 years of service. And the Siemens are only corridor style equipment no long-distance overnight routes. Overnight routes are supposed to get viewerliner 2 equipment based on the viewerliner ones. Amtrak has retired all of its remaining heritage fleet equipment in normal revenue service. Amtrak no longer uses today thee old timey dining cars from the post World War II era or baggage cars from that era or coaches converted into baggage cars. Even the Pacific parlor cars on the Coast starlight was retired years ago. It would be nice to have rail service to Port Angeles Washington or Ocean shores Washington for people who don't drive. But the closest we can get to is the coast starlight with a bus connection to Oregon coast or ride Greyhound which is basically using the WA sate funded services.
The Dungeness Line, operated by Greyhound Lines provides two trips daily between Port Angeles, Sequim, Discovery Bay, Port Townsend and Kingston, to and from Edmonds, downtown Seattle, and Seattle Tacoma International Airport. I think Amtrak Cascades should take over but they would either need to use a rail equipped ferry or ride up the long way through Olympia or a bridge in Tacoma.
And what do people do when they get to their destination? Ride a bike?
Let's just hope that if they do decide to build it, that they use the same standards as California HSR so they can connect the two systems up to form a mega HSR corridor.
The Portland, OR to Sacramento section would be over 500 miles and not connect enough in between to make the expense worth it, IMO.
@@eriklakeland3857 that and wildfire territory only way for it to be worth it is to make maglev cheaper
@@qjtvaddict i think just upgrading the portland to sac segment to 110mph standards where appropriate is a better alternative
Hopefully they use a standard that is practical so it actually finishes unlike the California HSR
@@misham6547 The thing with Cal HSR is that it's a new thing to the USA. The technologies used in the construction and operation of Cal HSR have never been used before in the US, so it takes some time for the engineers to gain experience with these new technologies. And of course, time is money. I think that if they built a Pacific Northwest HSR, they could build off a lot of the experience gained by Cal HSR, which would likely result in much faster and cheaper construction.
Seattleite Here. I take the train to Vancouver and Portland at least once a year to go see SoundersFC play our away Derby matches. It is so convenient because Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver all have their major stadiums within walking distance of the train station. You don't fly into the distant suburbs and need to light rail into town, or even worse yet, take an uber or lyft ride. Round trip SEA>PDX is about $56. thats cheaper than a tank of gas to get round trip. Ive done overnights staying in hostels that have cost less than $200 for train, game, bed, and some nice sushi and burgers for meals. Train is the way to go in the PNW.
Good to see people in the PNW actually use the Amtrak trains to travel between the cities. The Cascades running 3 trains a day is a factor for my decision to move to Portland later this year. Seattle is a nice city to visit but rent is too damn expensive for my budget unfortunately.
As someone from the PNW, I have taken the Cascades line before. I took the train from Vancouver WA up to Seattle, and continued to take a bus the rest of the way to Bellingham, my destination. The bus was such a bummer and I had hoped I could take the train the whole way there. It would be game changing if a high speed line was put in between these cities. I'm planning on going to college up in Bellingham and I would be able to sell my car if I could get back down into the Portland area that quickly
Ive taken the train fromKelso to Bellingham a few times. Its a wonderful ride, but like you on one return we were diverted to a bus from Bellingham to Seattle, that was awful.
There used to be regular Amtrak passenger service between Bellingham and Seattle. You could travel by rail between the Bellingham train station and Portland by switching trains in Seattle at the King Street station, no bus required. Does that not exist anymore?
@@shinyshinythings apparently it does not exist anymore, I was unaware until watching this video and looking it up. I used to take it all the time when a buddy went to western.
I live in Eugene, and the idea of this is super exciting to me as Cascades is the only real line to BC right now. High speed would be a massive help to the West coast region. I hope this video can make a difference in getting that to be a reality.
perhaps some better points of context for cost: the two states are currently in the late planning stages of a widened Columbia bridge and about 7 miles of freeway for 5-7.5 billion. a few years ago, seattle spent 3.3 billion for the 2-mile sr99 highway tunnel under downtown. annual budgets are 5 b for odot, 8b for wsdot, 3 b for BC's MoTi. assuming a 10-year buildout and 50% fed match, a 40b line would be less than 15% of their combined transport spending.
they've gone over budget and continue to fund the current light rail, i highly doubt the corruption will stop and deterr continous overspending to the figures you mentioned. right now, the estimated cost for ONLY the light rail is around 142 billion. im not sure where you got your figures but the WSDOT is absolutely terrible, and so are its' choices of contractors to complete the work.
@@aprilmayjoon what are you talking about? "142 billion" would be like half the gpd of these states, all figures are easily found by searching like "odot budget 2022". It is worth mentioning that the addition of light rail is included in the bridge project, but the cost of doing so is likely a small portion of the overall budget. No figures have been released, but a partial breakdown of the previous, very similar CRC effort showed that more than half the cost was for widening and rebuilding surrounding freeway and interchanges, while the other half was everything else, including the bridge itself, suggesting light rail costs were less than 25%
How is heavy freight going to go over your silly high speed rail line? The highway covers trucks as well as people driving much further than these destinations.
Fools.
There's another benefit to a high-speed rail system in the Pacific North West between the US and Canada that wasn't mentioned here.
A cooperative cross-border system was would make it much easier to build a line to Vancouver Island. The cost of a fixed link bridge placed only on Canadian soil from, say, Victoria to Vancouver given the sheer distance involved in crossing the channel would be cost prohibitive to the BC government BUT building a series of smaller tressels across the Sanjuan Islands over to Bellingham which is of course owned by the United States might actually be more affordable and could FINALLY link Vancouver Island to the mainland through a high-speed rail system. (Look at a map this could conceivably be done).
It would be amazing to be able to get on the train in Victoria or Nanaimo and get off in Vancouver or even Los Angeles without ever having to set foot on a ferry.
Ever since I took a ride on the Shinkansen bullit train in Japan I have been hooked on HSR. My dream, having HSR from Vancouver, BC to Mexico City. Thank you for your video's.
Small history correction: Amtrak operated the once daily "Pacific International" from Seattle to Vancouver from 1972-1981, when service was cancelled. No passenger trains ran between Seattle and Vancouver from 1981-1995 until the "Mount Baker International" service started and later became the "Cascades" in 1998.
Excellent video Geoff. It's good to know that Oregon, Washington and B.C. Government has signed a memorandum of understanding regarding a future high speed rail endeavor.
“Memorandum of understanding”… 😂 😂 😂
@@Bonzi_Buddy Sounds good to me, at least it's a step in the right direction.
@@Limosethe It is bureaucratic bs that means nothing.
@@Bonzi_Buddy Bureaucracy is the division of government agencies and functions for the purpose of completing different tasks. How do make a signed agreement between three governers out to be "bureaucracy"
I'm in Vancouver - would love this, but what would REALLY connect our region is to remove the border; go back to 1845 rules with a jointly administered "Oregon territory". Less likely than the bullet train but dare to dream :}
This guy gets it.
The most important point you made was that passenger trains have to get off of the freight train tracks. Not only because of the delays but because the quality of track maintenance is so much lower for slow moving freight trains. I can remember the fanfare surrounding the "Turboliner" in the northeast corridor back in the 1970's or even the Acela today, can't reach anywhere near their potential speeds because of the track they run on. But it is nice to see that the Cascades seems to be happy with the Talgo train sets. I always thought their pendular suspension was very clever.
Obviously, the most important part of high speed rail is the rail line itself. BNSF seems content with tracks suitable for 50-60 mph freight service; at even 80 mph, the upper floor of the Coach Starlight rocks and bounces far too much to be a comfortable ride. Frequent mudslides north of Seattle and hilly terrain along the route would require a totally new route, including land acquisition.
While I am personally a huge fan of rail travel, ANYthing over 100 mph would be very welcome, but European-style HSR is a long way off. I'm afraid I'll never live long enough to see it happen.
Also, currently Cascades service is reduced due to staff shortages. On the normal timetable, there is a daily service between Vancouver and Portland. It is projected to resume in Spring 2023.
That's the problem with rail. It cost more than airflight, because from location x to y, you spend more labor on trains, because it takes longer to travel that distance, than a plane.
I was gonna say that didn't seem normal to have a bus for a train reservation for a city like Vancouver. Good to hear that they will start up soon as a Pacific NW resident.
@@slewone4905 it costs more flat per trip, but not more per passenger/weight. There's a reason most freight traffic in the US is done by rail
I have friends in Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland... It would be so great to be able to hop on a train and visit them instead of driving. The traffic is awful, and bus tickets are pretty expensive. I wonder what the cost would be if we ever did get high speed rail.
The Boltbus actually had decent prices but they shut down during covid, sadly
As a portland resident, man I wish we had this. ESPECIALLY for my trips to vancouver. It's just far enough away to make driving annoyingly long but too close to justify flying.
I'm from Salt Lake and there's talk about high speed rail between Boise, Salt Lake, Vegas, and possibly LA. It would be so cool if high speed rail would also connect Boise and Portland.
I don't know about high-speed rail, but certainly, corridors like that one need very high quality rail service. (Yes, regular railways are good too!)
there is talk about a rail from Victorville to Vegas. Building from victorville to Los Angeles is harder, because of the San Bernardino mountains.
@@slewone4905 I thought they were planning on using CAHSR tracks from Victorville into LA?
That would be amazing and having more of the west coast / mountains be accessible without a car. Just going throughout the US without having to actually care to drive and just sit back.
@@mastertrams CAHSR will connect Bakerfield to Palmdale to Burbank in the far distant future. Brightline West will connect Victor Valley to Rancho Cucamonga when it gets financing. Please have patience and don't hold your breath for either. HSR NorCal Before SoCal. Heck, last I heard there are a mere 40,000 daily Metrolink commuters.
I would love medium speed rail between the two largest cities in Washington, Seattle and Spokane. Amtrak runs once a day at 3am and takes forever.
I think more than anything, cities in the Puget Sound region need true intercity rail. This doesn’t necessarily mean high speed rail but it does mean reliable, consistent and most importantly grade separated service.
I don’t know much about Vancouver, but Seattle and Portland have this weird situation going on where they’re using light rail as a subway/commuter rail hybrid. Both the systems have sections at grade which greatly affects the speed and reliability of the trains.
Shocked to see that this video has about 800 views. Such good quality and very insightful. Keep it up and you’ll grow very suddenly! Good luck.
4908 views already.
14k but it needs more!
It was just uploaded lol
103k views
As a transplant from my hometown of Tokyo, Japan, to Kirkland, WA, this could not make me happier..!! It's also nice to see the cultural influence of the people of Japanese heritage throughout PNW, whose ancestors first migrated to the U.S. to engage in railroad construction starting in the late 1800s. It's about time that the U.S. got a more reliable, cleaner mode of public transportation. In my view, any one of those local oligarchs living in Medina could and should chip in a bit more for the well-being of the region.
Your history/context section should have included that the Canadian Pacific Railway connected eastern Canada to Vancouver in the 1880s and the Canadian Northern Railway did it in the early 1900s.
Can't wait for more man. I always get jazzed when you post a vid about HSR
I live in Tacoma and take the train to Vancouver BC alot. There is one train from Seattle to Vancouver BC a day at 745 am and one from Vancouver bc to Seattle at 545 pm. Before covid there was more then one a day and it was amazing to take the train to and from
have you ever gone from Phoenix, Arizona, all the way to Tacoma, Philadelphia, Atlanta, L.A. ?
@@wadexyz no.
After experiencing the Eurostar between London and Paris, HSR it is the most civilized way to travel between major cities. The on board gourmet lunch with a glass of wine helped to convince my wife too. Living in Vancouver, BC, this is the 'no brainer' route between city pairs and triplets serving about 11 million people. The geography between Vancouver and Calgary (1,100 km) is much, much more difficult and would require probably 250 km of relatively straight tunnels through three major and five minor mountain ranges to achieve the 300 km/h of HSR. Vancouver-Seattle-Portland is orders of magnitude easier and cheaper.
Yes, I've traveled that route many times. What a terrific way to travel! I just wish some of the naysayers would get a passport and try it instead of simply shooting off their mouths.
To let you know, Amtrak is going to bring back their
trains travel between Vancouver and Seattle again later this year. The reason why discontinue in the first place it was covid then Canada is stricter than US.
It's been back. I did it three weeks ago both ways.
Our son took the Cascades on Dec 23rd. It was 6 hours late to Seattle due to getting side-lined to let a slow freight train pass. Would absolutely love high speed rail!
Pre-Covid, the train came all the way to Vancouver once a day (at least since 1993). Please bring that back!! Until HSR is built.
I think recently the Cascades started getting to Vancouver BC again
I rode the Cascades from Seattle to Portland. I'm an avid rail traveller, but It's the only Amtrak train I've ever been on. I've ridden commuter trains in the US North East, but no other Amtrak trains. A few things stood out to me. It was slow, obviously, the leg room was on a whole other level, like first class+++ despite being a regular second class car, it was weird to have to check in, and it felt sort of like being thrown back in time to the 50s, which is admittedly quite a common feeling I get in the US.
You had to check in? I regularly ride Amtrak in the Northeast, and I've never had to check in. I didn't realize that was a thing in other regions.
“What would it take to bring high speed rail to the region?”
A miracle.
Vancouver-Seattle is relegated to bus runs because of a lack of timeslots AND neglect on the Canadian side of the border. There's also a limited number of trainsets available due to the scrapping of the Talgos (mostly an overreaction to the 2017 DuPont derailment).
The Northwest needs to build up its normal rail service first and work on incremental corridor upgrades instead of putting all their eggs in the high-speed basket. Some of the money saved from not aggressively overbuilding could go towards serving the even more neglected East side of the region. Seattle-Spokane needs to have multiple trains per day, not one Empire Builder run in the middle of the night!
I completely agree, as nice as true HSR would be, we first need to do a lot of incremental improvements everywhere. (Including laying new passenger only track, or atleast passenger company owned so that way we can get the frieght trains out of the way of passenger trains which would massively improve reliability) We also need a focus on clock face scheduling and strict penalties for being late (applied to all rail users, a slow train backs up everyone) which would help with reliability and trust in the system.
I say we build the HSR up to Blaine and if they want to join us in the high speed rail they can finish it. We’ve already made a lot of improvements in building up real service in the Pacific Northwest such as the bypass and the New Siemens chargers and pax cars were going to be receiving over the next five years. I think it’s time we need to move to high-speed rail. By the time the Siemens train sets have reached their lifespan, we will have high speed rail ready to take over.
You all understand that new commuter rail IS being laid right this second don't you? They just bulldozed some old friends houses in the 260th area of south Seattle and I-5. Rail construction is connecting the airport to Federal Way, so there will be light rail from downtown ferry, south to Fed Way. If interest is shown, their is a plan on the books to go through Fife to Tacoma.
@@brianellison3525 You do realize thats light rail and not high speed rail that we’re talking about, right? That’s two very different rail services vastly different requirements to make happen.
@@brianellison3525 Link light rail is not commuter rail (Sounder fulfills that role, albeit poorly). The extension to Tacoma is already programmed as part of ST3, so there's no need for "interest" to be shown.
In any case, a good Northwest Starter System would have trains every hour or so between Eugene and Vancouver with stops at the current Cascades stations. Eventually the state could add a proper Olympia station, bypass the coastal BNSF line, and make other improvements to prepare for higher speeds and frequency.
Your videos are always interesting and informative
The Cascades express used to zip past me while I waited at the Auburn, WA transit center, and I swear it was only feet from my nose! Must've been going 70mph, I guesstimate. Always loved seeing it!
Great video and you're clearly on a topic of great importance and gaining momentum but you could have provided more details maybe suggesting a route or station locations that you think would work and why to help us visualize and consider the options available.
Agreed. Discuss what are the major barriers (terrain, local governments, environmental impacts, etc?) and what can be done to make progress on the project.
One small correction or at least glossed-over point. While Amtrak runs the Amtrak Cascades service it is under a contract with WSDOT and OSDOT and of this date is 100% paid for by those two agencies and by ticket revenue, Amtrak has not provided any funding since 2013.
I took the train between Kelso and Eugene . The train was 3 hours late arriving at Kelso. I could have driven to Eugene Oregon and been there before the train arrived in Kelso.
They have some work to do! You should mentioned how one person in Vancouver WA sunk the interstate bridge replacement in 2012. All because they wanted to put a mass transit lane on the bridge.
I can imagine it as a good idea, but it also seems that it would be a lot less capital-intensive and immediate to just increase trips along the line that already exists. And also to increase the connections between rail stations and outlying communities. Right now, in the Willamette Valley, the Amtrak Cascades has really good service if you are going from downtown to downtown, but often is unusable if you want to go more than a few miles from a downtown area.
The problem with increasing Amtrak trips is the amount of negotiations that would be required with BNSF and UP and their freight ROWs. This puts Amtrak in a really hard position because between the two north-south Amtrak routes in the PNW (Cascades and Coast Starlight), Amtrak owns none of the track that these two routes run on. Building out a completely new corridor would be more beneficial long term as the region (WA, OR, and Vancouver BC) would have more control and flexibility on the route.
@@TheTikeySauce That suggests much of the new lines should have more than two tracks, so slower regional and faster long-range trains can easily pass. (This is done in many other parts of the world. Often, there's also freight capability planned in, but in the US, the freight companies already have their own tracks.)
@@TheTikeySauce Which makes sense, but there are a lot of incremental ways to improve the system, including coordination to local transit systems. In cities like Albany, Salem, Kelso-Longview and Centralia, there really aren't really good local bus systems so usage of the train is pretty much for people who live close to the station. "Creating a shuttle bus from Corvallis to Albany" might not seem like the most exciting idea, but it is incremental progress, and it costs a lot less than 20 billion dollars. Also, of course, it would benefit me personally. :)
@@TheTikeySauce And therein lies the problem. To build a separate corridor would require acquiring large amounts of land which is not held by any government agency. The cost of acquiring this land would be very high as even with eminent domain they have to pay what the property is worth and eat up any funding for land instead of rail track. This is one of the main reasons California is behind schedule and over budget on their HSR to nowhere (as currently being built).
@@glowingfish Completely agree, but nothing says that we can't work on both - local connections short term and a high speed corridor long term. Of course, it's up the local/county governments to establish and make these types of connections to the larger network for their residents.
Good video. One other issue we’ve had is the rail lines close not infrequently due to mudslides over the tracks. Much of the lines from Seattle to Vancouver is on the water. While it makes for a beautiful trip, it does leave it susceptible to mudslides. They would need to resolve that as well with HSR.
The lines currently used between Seattle and Vancouver could never handle HSR due to the severity of the curves.
I live in Olympia, between Seattle and Portland. It would open a lot of opportunities to have the region connected this way and to have literally any alternative to I-5. If it's in your area of interest, I'd also recommend researching the new proposed airport in Washington. It's a huge debate right now, as no county currently wants to host it.
I would love to be able to take a train to Seattle and Portland from Vancouver. I feel like our region should share more since we have so many climactic and lifestyle similarities. Trains are definitely one of the best ways to combat climate change!
Nice video. Can you please add a credit for the image I took of Jay Inslee that was used at 7:45? It was released for free use under a Creative Commons license, with the expectation that proper attribution be provided in the form of a credit and link to the original upload on Wikimedia Commons.
You're cool Bruce, cc ❤️.
@geographybygeoff
So excited for this !! really could have used this a few years ago when I didn't have a car at the time and commuted at least a few times a quarter between portland and seattle.
Hurr durr… high speed rail is all about losers who do not have a car. That is exactly why you will never see this.
High speed rail would obviously be a great fit for the region and an excellent investment, but it still seems insane to me that they can’t fix the contracts with the freight companies to guarantee passenger trains the right of way.
Seriously, how hard can it be to run six-ish reasonably on-time conventional services per direction along the entire corridor?
very hard when the freight companies treat passenger as second-class and can't keep their own schedules.
@@poofygoof sue them, this is America!
@@freezombie unfortunately Amtrak can’t do that. We could buy those rails however
The first rail connection to British Columbia was the Northern Pacific's line to Sumas in 1891 where it connected with the Canadian Pacific.
By federal law, freight trains DO NOT have priority over Amtrak. On the Portland-Seattle run, most freights run at night or between Amtrak runs on double-track where delays from freights are very rare.
Love to see a video on high speed rail along the Rockies from Cheyenne to Albuquerque
As someone who lives in the Seattle metro area, the idea of being able to hop on a train and be in Portland or Vancouver in an hour is exciting. It makes a Friday night dinner or concert in one of those cities entirely feasible. In effect, it would make Seattle as close to Portland or Vancouver as it is to Tacoma.
You dumbass....if it takes 45min by plane to fly from Portland to Seattle what makes you think a train is going to get there in under an hour?? It's never going to happen this isn't Europe or Japan. We drive and fly...or if you're stupid you take govt funded rail that costs a pretty penny to ride AKA Amtrak.
i grew up in seattle so this was cool to hear the history of rail in my region
As a Washingtonian, I appreciate these videos (: please do more! Specifically the PNW topics. Subscribed!
The first run the new high speed amtrak route in 2017 from Seattle to Portland kept me from getting home from work for three days after the train derailed, killing 6 and injuring several others. Yes a high speed train would be a good thing, but more measures need to be done so we don't have another case of a near 80mph train going through a 30mph curve
I'm in the midst of planning a trip to Seattle in two months. The drive from my place in Salem is around 3.5-4 hours. I looked into taking Amtrak and was slightly disappointed to see that the trip via train would be a bit longer than by car. This video gives me hope that we may eventually invest in HSR. I guarantee it would be popular here in the Pac NW
as a college student with no car and goes to college in seattle but lives in oregon, a high speed would improv my life so much!!!
I tried to do improv once, but I kept doing Burt Reynolds impressions and got boo'd off the stage.
I haven't got to the delays section... But I'm excited. I have ridden Amtrak trains on the west coast 6 times. 4 of which had major delays.
Delay hours:
12.5 eugene -> la
11.5 la -> eugene
5 hour Portland -> seattle
2 hout Seattle -> Portland
All of which I was outside of cell service when we stopped.
I love JRail in Japan. It is so convenient and comfortable. I've taken the Cascade between Portland and Seattle a lot. I'd say the average is 3.5 excluding the big delays like in winter. Sometimes it took 3 hours.
It is just under a 3 hour drive and then you would have a car instead of be dependent on public transportation, taxis or ride share to get anywhere you want to go. Plus, it costs about $20 in gas or even less in an electric charge. How does this economically compare?
@@Bonzi_Buddy A car costs thousands of dollars to purchase and on average, hundreds of dollars a month in upkeep. A car can only move 60mph (given that its not in a traffic jam) while a HSR train connecting the two cities could move at 200mph. Driving is also a stressful, dangerous task that leaves a significant carbon footprint. Electric cars, are still bad for the environment as replacing hundreds of millions of vehicles will result in the destruction of an enormous amount of natural land in order to make room for the slave mines which produce the rare Earth metals nessasary for lithium ion batteries. These slave mines produce large amounts of environmental waste and highways are also extremely bad for the environment due to displacing enormous amounts of natural land for nebulous gain. As far as independence go, one has more individual liberty in regards to freedom of travel if they have more than two wasteful options of how to move from point A to B. Also, have you ever even heard of the fact that trains have private rooms...
@@Limosethe A human needs to get from point A to point B. A car gets from point A to point B. A train does not. You have to go to the station, get on the train on time and arrive at the destination of train travel (on time for your schedule, often) and then you need to get to your final place. That's going to require a taxi or rideshare for most people who may travel without "public transportation" having the rest of the trip...so you can leave out almost all of rural America.
Train travel can only compete with air travel for moderate destinations and even so... high speed rail can't get it done because no state wants to send their people to another location. You're seeing some intrastate lines be built up and that's exactly why.
@@Bonzi_Buddy Ohh Lord, but let's address this anywase:
"A human needs to get from point A to B." - This is precisely what car dependency infringes upon as a result of car travel being made the only feasible way of traveling from point A to B. As explained previously, already - one has more individual liberty in reg. to freedom of movement when they have multiple options of how to get from point A to B. In the face of humanity being in the dire straights due to climate change and overall environmental collapse, it's even more nessasary that people have less wasteful and more environmentally friendly means of travel.
"A car gets from point A to B." - In the most destructive, ineffecient and wasteful manner possible. They also cause the destruction of many destinations as numerous businesses have to be demolished in order to make room for highways and parking lot's. They also cause the US to be an shalt ridden wasteland of huge parking lots, upon mega highways upon extremely wide stroads. (Arterial roads lined with driveways that lead into parking lots)
"A train does not" - Sometimes. However, if the US was structured in a more efficient manner, it litterally wouldn't matter as train stations would be within a 15 minute walk from most commercial and residencial properties. This is the way it is in most of Europe and specific countries like Japan and South Korea. Wherever people aren't within walking distances to a metro station or tram stop, you have busses. Those vehicles are unreliable mostly in the US as opposed to other countries as a result of a lack of funding, busses getting stuck in traffic and a unreliable funding. Those problems go away with bus lanes and more funding to increase the concentration of busses on routes.
"You have to get to the station and wait for the train to arrive on-time" - Yes, you do. Trains also arrive and depart frequently with more funding being stripped from car infrastructure, in order to be shifted to rail infrastructure.
"Then you're going to need to get to your final place which requires a taxi or Uber" - Nope. Not if an area being serviced is by a train developed for higher density. Low density is a massive problem in the US as its the cause of urban sprawl, however this problem could largely be tackled by ripping up parking lots then developing that wasted land among other things, like repealing Euclidean zoning, parking lot minimum requirements and changing the tax codes so people in the suburbs have to pay for 100 percent of the infrastructure that surrounds them, as it's an incredible burden of cost in terms of taxes to people who live outside the suburbs.
"So you can leave out rural America" - Yes I can, somewhat. People who live in rural communities do so with full knowledge that the circumstance of their location is a trade off. In exchange for heightened privacy or work in the economic sector they choose, like agriculture, they are further disconnected from society so if they need to travel to a large city or to a place that's not available in a small town, they have to travel longer distance. Partially because of this, car centrism is still warranted in rural areas. However as I said earlier, "somehwat" - This refers to the fact that public transit certainly can connect small towns to larger population centers. This gets done with no problem in other parts of the world, like Europe (again with zero issues).
"Train travel can only compete with air travel..." - Nope. Wrong again. Trains are far cheaper to ride regularly than drive regularly, riding a train is far less stressful as you don't have to get stuck in traffic jams or compete with angry drivers, deal with drunk drivers, otherwise bad drivers or risk getting pulled over or simply have to look at a highway hours straight. You can also get work done on your laptop on the way to work. So there are alot of reasons why train travel can compete with car travel, as it's objectively superior in alot of ways. We haven't even touched that fact that commuting is the most dangerous thing that most people do as a result of having to drive. Also how many people have lost their jobs as a result of traffic jams causing them to be late for work.
"HSR won't work because states don't want to send their people to another state" - This is an unsubstantiated claim that you can't back up. For one, state governers especially know full well that interstate commerce benefits them. Secondly, HSR needs to be rolled out on a national scale, which would require the federal government as it's purpose is to direct National policy. (Don't forget the feds were primarily instrumental for the rollout of the interstates in the 1950s.)
@@Limosethe cry all you want as you cry there are no high speed rail lines being made. Share those freight routes!!! Unsustainable, 19th century travel method.
Oh god you're making this a whole series...?..
Subscribing.
People still do not understand high speed rail. It is not about the capitals you connect, it is about the regional centers you connect to those capitals. Including close regional centers for daily commutes and more distant regional centers for week end commutes. It also feeds a lot more traffic into regional centers at a distance. High speed rail is not about connecting capital cities but the regional centers between them.
The more capital systems on the high speed rail link, the more traffic they direct to regional centers between those capitals, where ever the trains stop.
Thanks!
Damn, 250mph or more! That would be awesome. By far the fastest high speed line build (excluding maglev).
And then you build a connection to San Francisco high speed rail, so that there is a rail connection from Seattle to LA
Yeah connect to the Sacramento branch
@@slomo4672 Yes building 580 miles of HSR from Portland to Sacramento is a creative fantasy that could be built in 11 years for $50 Billion.
@@davidjackson7281 hire the Chinese to build it...😉
@@slomo4672 Not a bad idea. Atleast have them cheaply rough out the tunnels with us completing the finish work to higher accepted quality standards.
@@slomo4672 That's the only way the Central Pacific could do it in the 1860s. And their reward was the 1880s Chinese Exclusionary Act and the 1890s Opium Wars. Any wonder why they have retaliated with the kung flu, fentanyl, spying and stealing.
I live five minutes from a train station and am forced to sit in traffic to drive to Seattle. I’d love reliable rail service
For some context on the railroad industry, Amtrak and the laws that cripple the US rail system for passenger traffic, See video from Wendover Productions entitled: "The one tiny law that keeps Amtrak terrible." Cheers
Thanks for the video.
I live in Portland and my wife and I occasionally travel to Seattle. If it was more convenient, I am sure we would do it more.
If they were to build a connection, could they do it using existing land or would they need to acquire additional land?
Also, once they had the land, how long would it take to lay the tracks?
I agree completely that the US needs to improve its rail service and maybe one day have high speed rail. The Amtrak Cascades uses European built Talgo cars that are capable of much higher speeds than the current limited service. (These trains used to run all the way to Vancouver BC. ) The problem with the lack of high speed rail service is, as the author stated , there are no proper dedicated train tracks for the trains to run on. The high speed trains in Japan and China are operating on specific high speed tracks built exclusively for the bullet trains and not shared with other train traffic. Even the Bombardier Acela trains running in the New York corridor is speed limited to something like 80 mph due to the poor quality of the existing tracks.
This type of infrastructure project must be taken at the national level, with major government subsidy. The cost is prohibitive at the state level or for private sector investors. America can do it , again, if they put their minds to it.
Insightful video. Vancouver, BC, Seattle, and Portland are natural candidates to have a dedicated high-speed train service linking them. But, what do you think about making incremental upgrades vs. making dedicated infrastructure?
A good news is that the initial project prospective assessment has already been launched. So hopefully in the next few years we should see the results of the study for hsr. And the lessons learned from California HSR should prove valuable in making it.
Thank you for explaining why I should not take the train in the Pacific NW until a HSR is eventually built.
That bridge that I saw is the Burlington Northern Bridge that connects to the west side of the Willamatte River that connects to The Astoria Branch to Scappoose St Helens Clatskaine and Astoria in the north and downtown Portland to the south and to the northeast is Vancouver WA Seattle WA and Yacolt WA Spokane WA Paso WA Vancouver BC.
I remember them talking about building this back in 1995.
Hunter Shobe was one my profs in undergrad! He convinced me I wasn't too old (26, lol) to go to grad school (15 years ago)
Amtrak should also have rail service to Spokane using High-Speed rail over the Cascades and also be able to connect to the the major university cities like Pullman and ellensburg and Wenatchee. As far as we only have currently the Empire builder that goes through Eastern Washington in the middle of the night literally. You forgot to talk about the Great Northern coming out from the East and the failed and bankrupt electrified lines of the Milwaukee road also known as officially: The Chicago Milwaukee St Paul and Pacific
Yup I had the misfortune of a 9 hour delay on my Empire Builder from Seattle to Spokane...arrived at 10 am instead of 1 am, so I nearly missed my hotel but luckily they let me sleep for a few hours. Tbf Amtrak completely refunded my ticket value and then 25% more.
This is one of the most common sense routes on North American continent. Another being DC-NYC.
They need separate dedicated tracks for passenger service in the PNW. Right now there is one line with sections of single rain that is shared with freight. Compare that to the NE Corridor.
Absolutely Love It!!! add a spur through the Cascades to Spokane and then you'll have something special!!! well at least i can jump on it from here in Wenatchee 😁😁😁👍👍👍
Having constructed many track embankments for BNSF, along this route…there are
Far too many grade crossings to deal with.
Then there’s the wildlife…then it’s teaching the locals that when the gates come down you must stop.
Elevated routes down the I-5 between the n/s lanes may be the better routing.
Let's not forget that in 2017, Amtrak's inaugural "faster run" line departing Seattle to Portland, derailed on a curve near Olympia.......killing 3 and injuring 80.
Mainly because maintenance of railway lines by the Class 1 companies are subpar. They would rather pay their shareholders than pay for much needed track maintenance.
Bypassing the freight rails is key. The stopgap Sounder commuter line between Everett and Tacoma is super expensive for Sound Transit. They don't like to talk about how much they lose per passenger renting the line from the rail owners, but it is multiples of the ticket they can charge. They need to bore a tunnel under Seattle. Stupidly they encouraged building near the current corridors and didn't zone/condemn 50 years ago when it was cheap. Now it would cost over 150B by the time the environmental impact statements are approved in 2040. That's an industry unto itself.
the bus transfer "mixed service" thing has been mostly fixed - canadian border control is still weird about it, so only short horizon consists go to vancouver, not the longer, cascades-specific talgo trainsets. theres also not much service. i took the train from seattle to bellingham last october, though
Yay, more Choo Choo trains.
Portland all the way up to Seattle/Tacoma, Everett, then Vancouver, maybe a branch off towards Spokane could be apart of a Chicago to Seattle HSR... A man can dream...
Lol i drive a lot between portland and vancouver. Its about 4.5 hour most of the time if border crossing is not congested.
but would love to have this rail way PLEASE
The biggest challenge is where to put the track. The current Amtrak route is plagued with landslides. Go inland and it would take 20 years just to clear title to the needed land. Late and way over budget is how we roll in the Great Northwest.
If you are going to talk about the other possible corridors, then you would have to bring up simple and easy to understand standards and terms that everyone agrees on (or at least most people can agree on).
For my standards and definitions:
Infra-city regional: heavy rail/suburban metro systems that operates within a major metropolitan area.
Inter-city regional: heavy rail between two metropolitan areas, that operates at 124.3 mph (200kph) or less.
Higher speed rail: heavy rail that operates between 124.3 mph (200 kph) and 186.4 mph (300 kph).
True High Speed rail: heavy rail that operates at 186.4 mph (300 kph) or higher.
Preferably, all electrified systems that operate the most modern and advanced signaling systems available. It would be best if the units were made in North America by domestic companies, but it is not a requirement.
All base-load (the minimum amount of electricity needed on the least demanding part, of the least demanding day of the year. Usually in the Spring and Fall for a few days to a couple weeks at most) electricity is to be made by one or more of the following sources, based on the geographical area's best option available:
Nuclear fission, nuclear fusion (when it is made available, which best estimate is late 2034 at the earliest), hydroelectric dam, geothermal, tidal/wave/undersea turbine, natural gas, and orbital microwave beam (near future tech, but possible within the end of 2030's).
If you want any other power source that you want to add on top of it, you can do so after the base-load is covered.
Even with all of that said, you would have several independent and successful systems that are not connected due to the high upfront cost to build such a system and little chance to break even on such an endeavor.
1: You have this system.
2: You have the embarrassment that is the California system, even if no other problems happen for the rest of that project's history.
3: You have Brightline trying to tie part of their route to Las Vegas into the California's system going into L.A. (I expect that Brightline will get their system finished before the California system gets the section done from where they meet to L.A.).
4: You have the Texas system that is being brought online (even with the additional funding issues that is now plaguing them), that system can split off and add in Austin and San Antonio with a much smaller investment than what they already spent and are expected to spend for the rest of their current project.
5: You have the Brightline system in Florida that is working on a smaller scale and is expanding to add more stops and services in the near future. I see this service expanding into all the major Floridian cities and maybe a few other cities long before it could connect to other systems.
6: You have the Acela Express which is getting new units and some upgrades to the tracks, but most of that is long overdue. Even still, most of the expansion routes are bringing back old lines and upgrading substandard lines to something that has not been seen in nearly half a century.
7: Redoing old routes into and out of Chicago through most major metropolitan areas within 500 miles (800 km) would be helpful, but it would not connect to other systems for at least the first 20 years.
8: For the Canadian fans, I did not forget about you. The Windsor Line from Quebec City to Toronto, via Montreal and Ottawa, is your only reasonable line available to be made True High Speed. You may have other lines that can be made Higher Speed or Inter-city Regional, but nothing else.
9: For the Mexican fans, your choices are more interesting and challenging. Connecting anywhere by rail through mountains suck, and are very expensive. The system being built down in the Yucatan is impressive, but it will not make your system the envy of the world, much less in North America. Connect it to Mexico City and non-Mexican cities (Belize City, Guatemala City, San Salvador, etc.). Start building a Trans-America High Speed Rail system that reaches down to Panama City and connects up to the USA systems in Texas (either near Brownsville or El Paso) and another near Phoenix (expanded California system, eventually).
If I missed out of a system that you like, then find a good reason to add it. And just because does not count. Come up with an amazing reason and find a way to say it clearly and concisely so people find it nearly impossible to argue with it. Cost-benefit analysis is the best option. Comparing the cost to build out the system honestly to adding additional lanes to an existing freeway/tollway.
One system i would like to see is what i call the NY cross. Basically 1 line from Montreal to NYC and another from Boston to Buffalo (and beyond to Toronto and/or Cleveland & Chicago) with a transfer in Albany that is ideally clock faced scheduled to actually be reasonable for passengers.
It has a couple of caveats like needing Acela and Quebec - Windsor to be built proper to really get any network effects going. Additionally every city will need its local transit brought up to a respectable standard for its size, something Albany and Syracuse definitely lack.
But it has pros like linking Acela and Canada's Corridor through the most logical path.
Both routes can follow interstate right of ways through valleys and avoid the mountains. (With a weird potential for NYC - Albany to be 2 separate 1 way single tracks down 2 different highway medians for basically the entire run. Sounds weird but it should really help save costs on not needing to actually buy land for the project)
And finally the entire north east needs inter city regional and even if this proposed corridor wasn't true HSR it would still be an amazing backbone to hang a clock face scheduled intercity regional network off of. (It does follow the 2 oldest transportation corridors in NY, the Northway and the erie canal)
I have no illusions that this isn't a national priority, but i think NYS and Mass should try and upgrade the existing lines on these 2 corridors to be actually decent through incremental improvements. (Thats another benefit, its basically just 2 states that have to cooperate and NY already has a history of cooperation with canada)
I don’t know much about Canada. But I do know that outside of Portland and Seattle the PNW does not have that high of a population. And of the population, how many would actually be riding the train? Yes, it doesn’t sound like that much money to build high speed rail in the area. But it would take forever to pay for itself.
someone finally said it 👏👏
There is plenty of support for HSR on the Canada side, but you wouldn't know if you just looked at local news. In Vancouver BC, the buildout of the Skytrain is heavily supported, and that may have consequences for how HSR is developed or prioritized. Existing Vancouver policy is not to support above-grade rail east of Arbutus (which is why the final part of the UBC segment is what it is) which means that a HSR terminus at waterfront may not be possible, only at YVR (which is in Richmond) or Surrey.
During the upgrades to the Cascades service, very little was done on the Canadian side. I believe all that happened was an additional siding at the border crossing. Anyone who has ever taken the Cascades from the Vancouver BC side, probably spent more time at customs than they did actually getting on the train. If returning from the US, you, literately sit outside. Even if it's raining. There has to be some significant upgrades to the existing station if HSR is to terminate there, and there is no space to upgrade (the open space that used to be the Great Northern Station is being repurposed for the new hospital, the land has been empty for 50 years.)
I thought Pacific Central Station was planned to have the terminus for HSR? Waterfront tracks are mostly now for the West Coast Express and Skytrain albeit the latter on a separate platform.
Thanks for advocating for this. If only they had gotten started on the idea 40 years ago. As someone who has experienced the efficiency and beauty of the European rail systems, I find it shameful that adding lanes and installing piecemeal local train/bus routes to accommodate growth has been the PNW's solution this whole time. The region came of age in the era of cars, yet the traffic is still nightmarish. Time for high-speed rail!
Egypt may have plans to build HSR, but Morocco has already done it. Yes, theres HSR in Africa.
I would cry tears of joy if i could make it to vancouver and portland in just 75 minutes. I'd certainly visit them a lot more.
I would be amazed if I could get from Vancouver WA to Portland Or in 45 min or less!
There is talk of building an international airport in Thurston County and I have signed then petition opposing it. I love the idea of high speed rail though. In the PNW we treasure our green spaces.
Is there anyone looking into or developing a HSR along the I5 corridor? Wouldn't that make sense to have a train run down the center of the I5 between Vancouver and San Diego?
We just took 25 years filling in the space between the lanes with HOV through the tri county area. I'm doubting anyone would be willing to say ok to starting a new construction job on the freeways. And we have a new commuter rail project running along side I-5. between the airport and Federal Way. The other side runs along an unstable valley cliff.
Not sure where you think this great idea is sposed to fit.
If it were available and at a cost equal or less than Alaska Air, we would love to take a weekender to BC from Portland.
As A Californian. We are building a high speed rail. Good luck, because so far, we ran out of money again, and the rail only connects two agricultural cities.
And I hope you got land for the rail. We are using land next to and owned by the railroad company. back in the old days, they get free land next to the rail, so they have uninterrupted land going from two different prime location. The issue is the rail company does not trust us running a high speed rail next to them.
I don't see the need for a bullet train between Portland and Vancouver, BC. It's not that far of a distance. Prioritizing passenger trains over freight trains while repairing tracks and adding bypass tracks should be sufficient to reduce the time trains take between stops. A HSR would end up reducing the number of stops which isn't what people in Washington want. I took the train from Mt Vernon, WA, to Vancouver, BC, to get to the Alaska cruise ship port. It wasn't that long ago and it cost ~$13 each way. We went through customs in Vancouver after getting off the train, took the skyway for two stops and were at the port. Nice and easy. This train doesn't stop in Mt Vernon and I don't believe it even goes north of Seattle. To get to Vancouver without driving, I'd have to take the Amtrak bus from Mt Vernon to Seattle then get onto another bus to get to Vancouver. Total waste of time but removes the need for parking in Vancouver if I drive. Adding a separate rail line would destroy more land and possibly houses unless that rail line was built east of Seattle along the Cascade foothills. As for a HSR going east from Seattle, that's going to cost a ton of money. The rail line would need to go through the Cascades, probably along I-90, then figure out a fast way to get across Idaho into Montana, again crossing a few very high peaks. The Western United States, except for the CA Central Valley, is not flat like everything east of the Rockies making a safe HSR system not economically feasible.
I travel to Canada often. It takes a bit less than 2 hours to drive from Seattle Downtown to the Canadian border in the ideal conditions. 2.5 hours with moderate traffic. Getting around Vancouver by car is a mess, and it can take an additional hour to drive from the border to the destination in Vancouver. But anyway, you're looking at 3.5 hours from your doorstep to the doorstep in Vancouver by car.
That's around 5.5 hours by train, because both Seattle's and Vancouver train stations are located in somewhat inconvenient locations. Seattle's transit is also a stinking mess.
An HSR that cuts down the travel time from 5.5 hours to maybe 3 hours is _still_ not going to be super-competitive with cars.
Amtrak actually gets priority even on freight rail lines. The only freight train that can put an Amtrak in a siding is an intermodal, and even that is mostly due to their length.
Good luck. It's a nice dream.
Since you pointed to the proposed new Columbia River bridge, for I-5, WA and OR have been battling over that thing for a good 20+ years. About a decade ago, it looked like a version of a bridge was finally going forward. In the end, the State of Washington backed out. The Washington state legislature balked at the $450M share, and objected to the addition of light rail tracks. Yes, RR tracks were an issue. Or an excuse?
The current bridge design, has light rail provisions, once again. Recently, the US Coast Guard rejected the current proposed design, as the clearance over the river is insufficient. The new bridge design will block some of the vessels, now using the Columbia. Not to mention, cost estimates are nearly double what they were, from a few years ago, for the new bridge. So it looks like a more costly redesign is likely. Just to raise the thing. True HSR will require its very own Columbia River Bridge.
California's HSR 's current completion cost estimate is nearly double the initial estimates. The guess now stands at $105B. And it's climbing. The final phases have not been funded.
Look at the troubles they had with implementing the Cascades improvement plan from 2006. The first revenue train (2017) to utilize an improved segment, was destroyed, when it derailed onto the highway below. Killing 3 and injuring 65. The Point Defiance Bypass was finally put back into service, for the Cascades, in late 2021. A revised Cascades rail improvement plan/proposal is out there, and intended to address the Eugene to Vancouver, BC rail needs, for the next 20 years. New train sets are planned and on order. They are expected to go into service by 2027. Funding for the proposed improvements is an issue. Other than a study for HSR in the region, I don't think it will happen in your lifetime; let alone, mine. As much as I'd love to have it in place.
What do you think of the Mayan train?
I was watching this (very interesting) video, and then I tried to figure out why in a video about the PNW, at 5:26 you show a video of Tel Aviv....
subbed
I live in BC. If I could get down to Portland in 2.5 hours I'd be there all the time to see the peelers.
Amtrak Portland to Vancouver is 315 miles and takes nine hours. That's an efficient use of time.