Shimano Shifter / Derailleur Compatibility Guide: Intro to Cable Pull Ratios
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- I've tried to assemble as short of a video as possible while still providing the ground work to understanding why a shifter may or may not be compatible with a derailleur.
There are other considerations to think of besides shifters/deraileurs, like chain width, cassette, derailleur capacity, etc. Those are topics for a later date.
Be mindful. It's a guide, not an absolute certainty. Use your brain, and you'll be fine. Consider everything.
These are exactly the type of videos I was looking for. They help me understand the fundamentals. Thank you!
Great video. I tried other explanations from other people, but this was by far the easiest to understand.
Dear good sir. Thanks for the explanation video, this is what I've been searching for for a while.
Phenomenal! If only all TH-cam content was this well presented and informative. Thank you
This guy is a really good teacher! He breaks everything down so well and comprehensively. Thanks Man. So helpful and your Bottom bracket vid is EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You’ve just saved me a lot of time, and probably a good bit of money otherwise mis-spent on an incompatible shifter. Brilliant video. Such a clear explanation!
This is probably the easiest to understand explaining pull ratios while mix matching drivetrain! Thanks for sharing!
One of the most useful vids on youtube ever. Thanks a lot!
For Shimano front derailleurs, road and mountain have different cable pull ratios.
The best technical bike youtuber, Thanks for the info!
i see. so i can use my 105 10spd RD on any MTB shifter provided it's 10spd as well? or i can go 11speed shifter & cogs using the same 105 10spd? (short cage)
@@BenjaminVallejera (My comment had nothing to do with rear derailleurs) But , no. Shimano used the same cable pull ratio for most of it's rear derailleurs from 6 speed up. (Early Dura Ace used different ratio). That is both road and mountain. But then Shimano changed the cable pull ratio on it's mountain rear derailleurs starting at 10 speed. This is just cable pull ratio, mean they will work with the shimano shifters and index correctly. There is also chain capacity, and largest cog.
You can use Shimano 105 10spd RD with Shimano 6, 7, 8, 9 speed shifters. They all have the same cable pull ratio.
Here is how indexed shifting works: th-cam.com/video/xMvD1T4qF1E/w-d-xo.html
@@RJTheBikeGuy i see. so if i use 9speed shifter, it can only accommodate 9 cogs? or can it shift up to 10th cog? btw, great stuff. im learning more here. You have explained (Without me asking) why my roadbike 10spd tiagra shifter works on a 9spd alivio RD. :)
@@BenjaminVallejera It would not even be able to shift that last time. That is not even taking into the consideration the indexing.
I wish there were more public school teachers with your style teaching our younger generation.
Thanks so much! Such an awesome compliment to me! You have no idea!
Awesome, just what I needed to know to select a new derailleur.
Hi All, FYI Im running currently - due to crash and death of previous gen RD SLX M670 - SLX M7100 (1x12 model) with 10spd 11-42 cassette and 10spd slx shifter. However, will order - as its cheap as hell - 12spd SLX shifter and Im more than sure it will work flawless - will just leave the smallest gear/click empty by setting cable tension to 3rd from bottom as the lowest gear on my cassette. Still ultimately will upgrade to 11spd 10-50 cassette (sunrace mx8) and will leave only 1 gear/click on shifter "empty". and later when microspline will not be so expensive and more available ( running Bontrager wheelset ) will go to full shimano M7100 12 spd group by adding proper driver and cassette. Cheers
Thanks so much for this video. I always encountered so many troubles when I was doing conversions on my bikes. Thanks to you, I can now ensure the compatibily of the different mixing of shifter and derailleurs!!! I don't know if you already have done one, but a video on the groupset Shimano Dura-Ace 7800 would be nice because it is a big revolution in the cycling world (9-10 speeds, 2 pieces cranckset, wierd freewheel... but so beautiful). :-)
great video
im a beginner of fixing up bikes and pairing different shifters with casets so thanks a mil with these kinds of videos
extremely helpful..now I know I can use cheap front derailleur from shimano with any other Shimano shifters
That was very good. Thank you for taking the time to make this video and share this information.
Very informative and very well explained.
This answered so many questions for me. Thank you!
Inspired by this and similar vids, I changed the 11-28 for a 11-34 on my Felt CX bike. Used the Road Link and also subbed a 34 tooth chainwheel for the 36. Didn't even need to adjust the chain length. Now I have the 1:1 lowest ratio. The rest is up to me.
Question: I have a 10 speed (Dura-Ace) barend shifter being used with a 9 speed mountain derailleur and a 10 speed cassette. However, I keep having trouble with the shifter needing to be moved two clicks to actually move the chain. (Then I have to click back one to align the derailleur. Is this a compatibility issue or a bent hanger or...
Joe Copeck cross compatibility only works up to 9 speed, then all bets are off.
Change to a 10 speed derailleur, so it's a matched set.
Some youtube videos show combinations working pretty darn good despite the math suggest. 11 speed shifter , 11 speed derailleur works with 10 speed cassette.
Awesome video that clarifies everything, thank you sir.
Note that after this video came out, Shimano released a TYPE-3 *10-speed* 4700 Tiagra RD and shifters. Thus all road 10-speed RD+shifters are compatible with each other.
You should really do videos more often, they are very informative. They are always Aha! moments for me being an amateur bike mechanic.
Thanks dude! I try to make videos no one else has, or could be improved. If I think someone out there has an excellent video, I generally won't copy them.
@@johnthebikeguy hi John plz check my latest comment. Thanks
This would be useful as part of the curriculum taught at school.
I believe the information regarding front derailleur are inaccurate -- for triple 3x9 Road vs MTB pulling cable ratios are similar but not exactly the same. This means that even after careful setup you have some rub somewhere -- in my case I tried to mount MTB FD to match road STI Shimano shifters, and either leftmost or rightmost chain path caused the rub against FD cage.
@Yard Sale Dale I wrote about replacing one triple with another triple (it is not doable without converter). And since with triple the rub occurs only on one of the cogs I am not surprised dropping one and going double works.
Would a shimano altus rd-m310 derailleur and a shimano altus sl-m310 shifters be compatible together? I'm replacing my old shifts and derailleur and shifters but I can't find the original parts.
need your help, i really fcd !
I got a gravel "locked" in Sram Apex...
I changed rear derailleur for Deore M6000 (MTB) , the cogs was Sram too, i changed today for a chinese cog, 11-28 10v.
Mi shifters are STI Hidraulic Tiagra 10V.
When i shift the gears, the pull ration doesn't work well, its like 2 shifts for one gear up. Well, in short, I have 10v in shifters, and in cogs, and the derailleur, also 10v, but just reach 8 gears, sometimes.
I need to replace de derailleur for a Tiagra Road ?
You need a derailleur matching the shifters. Ten speed mountain is totally different than any road setup is compatible with.
Tiagra is a weird group - when they bumped up to 10 speed (after this video was made), they changed their whole tiagra system to be compatible only with Tiagra. It’s effectively an island onto itself - all alone in terms of compatibility.
If you want your shifters to be compatible, you’ll have to dump the m6000 rear and use a 10s tiagra rear. Nothing else is compatible.
BTW, I’m John the Bike Guy commenting under the name of a different channel.
Normally I don’t respond to questions with answers contained in the video. But Your system of Tiagra isn’t in there because it wasn’t made when the video was made, so I made an exception.
Will the SL-M770 (3x9) front shifter work with the FD-T8000 derailleur, FC-M770 22-32-44T crank and C9 CN-7701 chain?
Why shimano hate us so much? I just found 105 5700 STI it's not compatible with Tiagra 4700 Derailleur because they have different pull cable ratio. And they both are from 10v road rear groupsets.
I NEED HELP I need to find a cheaper alternative to this derailleur.. ALIVIO RD M410 8S Speed MTB Bicycle Rear Derailleur (it was on my GT avalanche 3.0)
Hey John,
I have a Shimano 11speed Deore M5100 group set. However, I'm having trouble getting it to shift to the tallest gear (50 tooth cog) and the shifter breaks inside requiring me to open it up and set it up again to function somewhat. Can I replace the shifter to a Shimano 12 speed Shimano Deore SL-M6100-R so I have an extra trigger pull to hit all the gears? Would I run into any problems? If so, what do you think they would be?
so a type 1 XTR read deraileur XTR 10 v is not compatible with an XTR DynaSys XTR shifter 10 v ???
my only doubt!!
(i tested the 10v XTR dynasys with a SRAM x9 and worked flawlessly thats weird)
Can I have Deore LX (2009 model i think) 9 speed rear derailleur on road bike? And can i put those road bike shifters (that come integrated in a brake) on it and use it normally? I have option to buy a good bike for ~200$ but it doesn't have road bike drop bars, its a flat bar. And on the rear it has Depre Lx 9 speed derailleur which i think is for mountain bikes.
Very informative and easy to understand. Thank you!
I'm considering upgrading a Trek 7300 FX Mountain bike for gravel use, and would like to replace the handlebar with a Bontrager VR-CF Aero handlebars, and use road shifters with the 9 speed LX group.
So if I understand correctly, I could use my 105 10 speed (5700) right shifter with the 9 speed LX rear derailleur, provided I upgrade the cassette to a 10 speed one?
For the front I will need to change the derailleur in favor a road version fi. a FD-5703?
Can I use sora r3000 road shifter, alivio RD, with 9 speed alivio cassette 12-36t on my road bike?
So I have a older bike given to me.. it has sram max comp grip,shifter, a acera x derailleur and Altus front gears.. will these work together I’m not having much luck..if not which shifters do I need thanks
i have a dura ace 2 x 11 road drop bar set up. how to convert to flat bar? which shifters to buy?
Current set up on a Bianchi Lepre Mini Velo : 7 speed cogs, friction shifter, single chain ring currently using Shimano Tourney Rear Derailleur. Will a Shimano Deore XT RD-M8000 GS Medium Cage Shadow Plus 11 Speed Rear Derailleur work with the set up considering I am using a friction shifter for the rear? Will the chain fit?
Can i use Shimano Claris road STI 8 speed shifters with vintage 7 speed shimao 1051 group?
I want to change a broken left speed shifter on the shimano 600 st-6400 I was wondering what is compatible
Thank you for knowledgeable and helpful insight
Sorry for asking something that maybe you already answered in the comments. But I just want to know. I can use my Dura Ace 7800 front and rear derailleurs of I swap the from 7800 shifters to the 6700/ 5700 (105) /ultegra shifters ?
I found a bike in trash,thought I could save it ,24" anyway the rear derailleur was all bent ,chain rusted,so I had some shimano derailleurs ,put one on it rubs the freewheel ,no b adjustment.I sized the new chain to old one and checked sizing from large front ring to large back cog.it seemed ok .shpould I put a long cage ? or what.help
Thanks this video really answered my questions about shifters thanks
so IF I'm understanding this correct.. I can take my altus rear derailleur off (7 sp), and slap on a deore (9 sp) and use it with my current shifter and I should be able to set the stops and be GTG? All mtn after all.
I'm really looking at upgrading the derailleurs for both my front (a tourney) and a rear (an altus). This seems like it should work? I'd like to go to a twist shifter later from the thumb shifters (I hate the fact that I go up a gear using my thumb and down a gear using index on my right hand, but go up a crank sprocket size with my thumb on left hand and down with index.. they're opposite of eachother). This will probably necessitate swapping out everything in my bars, but as long as I stick with same MFG (shimano) and gear sets (its a 3x7 so I should stick with that) I should be ok?
I've a 10 speex xt rear mech with clutch on a 9 speed cassette pulled by 11 speed slx shifter and it works pretty good in till I put the clutch on and then the shifter won't pull the derailleur properly, is this due to pull ratio? Or do my clutch need serviced?
Any help or advice welcome
Fixed it😀
Apologies, I am not mechanical, but to be clear, my Dura Ace derailleur has to have a Dura Ace shifter? I was looking to convert my road to a flat bar and I have not found Dura Ace shifters for flat bar.
Cool video and I like your cheat sheet with all the compatabilties/combos. You may want to consider a part 2 to this video with mismatching vintage index components with other brands and non index components. I've successfully meshed non index/friction Suntour Cyclone and Superbe Pro RDs with shimano 7 and 8 sp index DT shifters and the indexing worked fine, so I assume many old Suntour non index RDs have a 1:1 cable pull ratio. Also I've meshed 1st gen. Suntour 6 sp Accushift shifters with Shimano 7sp RDs with 7 sp FWs, so the pull ration on 6sp Accushift is the same as 7 speed Shimano shifters. You can overclick the 6sp Accushift DT shifters to get into the largest FW cog but sometimes it ghostshifts back into 2nd gear if you hit a big bump in the road. These weird combos can come in handy if you're setting up vintage pre 90's bikes with friction shifting and converting to index shifting brifters/DT shifters/barend/grip shift or rapidfire shifters.
I am trying to attach a new front and rear derailleur but have struck out twice finding the right sizes. Is there a specific brand for each bicycle?
Nichol Jackson No, there are three main sizes - 28.6mm, 31.8mm, 34.9mm. 28.6mm is usually on steel / titanium. Aluminum and carbon usually use the upper two.
Simplest method - buy the biggest one and use some kind of shim. I don’t run derailleurs in the front anymore except for road, and I always use braze on clamps, as I have one in each size. But I have used old tubes cut in strips. Definitely will not rotate.
Can I use a Shimano 9speed Alivio RD-M4000 with a Shimano SL-M310 7 speed shifter. Don't know what the pull ratio is with the new shadow RD's. Also is it ok to run a 9 speed RD with a 7 speed chain or will thier be issues. Thank you.
Thank you John, you answered all my questions.
newbie question - can i use/replace a 105 rear derailleur from an existing sora rear derailleur? thank you
So if I understand it correctly I can use a 9-speed Sora road shifter with a 7-speed exage LX 3 00 rear derailleur as long as I have a nine-speed cassette and chain am I correct
Dear sir according on this diagram is it possible to work a xtr rd-m972 Derailleur ( 9 speed) with 11-46t cassette and 10 speed shifter with an extender or not
I found a bottom pull derallieur, but my frame is set up for a too pull, is there a way to convert it or am i better off not doing it?
So the 6600 6700 7800 and 7900 are all compatible? Irregardless its FD or RD?
I dl dis video for offline use . Thanks 👍👍👍
My bike has sram sx4 shifters and rear deralier I got a sram x4 shifters will it work with sram SX4 deralieur
Excellent video -- this means I can upgrade a claris to a tiagra bit by bit-- great news!
did you do it ? how well does it work ?
VERY clear and informative! Thanks John, I learned a lot of valuable information. Good thing YT has a function, cause I WILL need to re-visit some details. 😉
my freaking derailleur broke... i just tightened up a wobbly rear wheel and adjusted the brakes so good that angels were crying at how well they were operating.. and then my rear derailleur BROKE IN HALF... im not complaining.. i got some cheesy bread, fell asleep on a bench, woke up, went to another bench, slept on that for a while, woke up then walked like 3 or four hours back home.. had me a gay old time... true story..
Does this mean that the rear derailleur doesn't matter? If you have matching speeds between the shifter and the cassette, you stay within road or MTB family, and stay within the capacity of the rear derailleur, then you can use any derailleur? I've seen a video where an XT shifter shifts and Alivio derailleur with no problems and no visible modifications.
I have a Specialized Allez with a Shimano Claris groupset. Currently, it is equipped with a Sunrace 11-32 8-gear cassette. I am about to change the wheelset and considering having a new cassette and chain. Considering that Shimano and SRAM are compatible in general, will a SRAM PG830 cassette work well with my Shimano Claris derailer? Thanks.
Yeah, exact same spacing. As long as you’re not changing the # of cogs, everything is good. Campagnolo is the one to be careful of using mixed brands.
Does it basically mean that i can use shimano claris 3x shifter on a shimano claris 2x front mech?
I’ve just purchased a SRAM x4 rear derailleur and my shifter is a shimano altus st-ef51 for 8speed... will it work? Cheers
Hi! Sora st-r3000 shifters will work fine with my fd-3500 front and rd-3500 rear derailleur? or needed buy new rd/fd derailleurs r3000 series?
As I understood the outlier front was specifically the Dura Ace FD-7900 and the earlier 10 speed version FD-7800 was compatible with everything else?
For road bikes, is Tiagra 4700 rd and fd compatible with SRAM 2x10 brake/shifters?
No. 4700 rear is only compatible with 4700 shifters. It’s an oddity that was created after I posted this. Definitely not compatible with SRAM.
@@johnthebikeguy
follow up question: is 105 r7000 rd and fd compatible with SRAM 2x11? If so, is there a difference between 105 r7000 fd and 105 5700 fd? As I can only observe that the 5700 one is a clamp on, while the r7000 is a braze on and my frame is currently a clamp on style, so I'm thinking of just going with the 5700, but I'm worried that it might have some compatibility issues
@@name-ug5xq no road shifter made by SRAM is compatible with Shimano Components. Mount style has no effect on shifter compatibility. You have to use SRAM derailleurs.
I would like to use mt.11-46 cassettes with long cage ultegra rear derailleur and ultegra shifters. would it work?
My alivio deraileur broke. What is My best option for new deraileur upgrade based on the following setup with V-fire shifter?
3 x 8 speed with the Shimano cs-hg30-81 cassette in rear
Front cog large 42.
24 small cog
Total chain capacity is 37 if I did my math right.
I have the Shimano St-ef50-8r 8 and L Speed V-brake shift trigger/brake assembly.
The only markings I could identify on my chain is 'narrow' and Z
Can I use 9 speed Altus Shifter in 9 speed Alivio derailleur? Thanks.
So, 9-speed Sora road shifter will work perfectly with 9-speed Altus derailleur? Thanks
Hi. I have an old 4600 tiagra rd. I want to know if I can swap it with the new 4700 rd. Will it be compatible with my old tiagra shifters?
No, it won’t be. 4700 is only compatible with 4700.
Hi John, your video has ended my frustration while i was trying to fit new M8000 11s rear derailleur with old shifter 9s.
There is new reason to be frustrated. I have a bike frame with TOP Pull system and series M8000 doesn't have in any front derailleur which support 3x11 with top pull.
Is there any chance that I can use new M8000 shifter with old 3s derailleur or they change something too in front shitfer too ?
a question ... can i use a shimano sora sti 3500 with a claris 8v rear derailleur? Thank you
i just want to confirm if you dont mind. Based on the pull ratio you provide, can my RD Altus 8 speed (now using rapidfire altus shifter) be paired by claris brifter 8 speed? (FD also). Maybe someone can also share their experience
If i combine: 9s rear derailleur (shimano) and 9s shifter (Shimano) with a 8s Cassete will it work?
This is why I use friction shifters only. It just works.
Hi. Can I wise a 10 speed shifter, a 10 speed cassette with a 11 speed rear derailleur? Thanks
I’ve been trying for the past five years to figure out what flat-bar road shifters are compatible with my 105 5700 10 sp. rear derailleur. I still don’t have a definitive answer. Best guess is SL-R780 shifters, but they’re impossible to find. Wanting to covert a 2011 road bike to flat-bar.
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT SHIFTERS WILL WORK FOR SURE?
Many thanks!
Shifter sram X5 9s and rear D. shimano slx 10s can be mixed? (obviously using 9s cassette)?
But did the pull ratio and the cogs change through the years?
Because if it didn't I can use rx100 9s cassette, rx100 crankset, with new sora derailleurs and shifters
Basically everything of the rx100 can be swapped with new sora?
Correct me if I'm wrong,my shifter has only 6 clicks for its matching tourney derairer 7 speed,it only has to click 6 speeds to reach all 7 gears .
#2 I have a new bike with a shimano derairer 6/7 speed,my matching shifter has only six clicks,it seems that's all the clicks needed since there is no natral gear,right?
Good day RJ the bike guy. Will a Shimano 8s shifter work with a Shimano Acera RD with a cassette that has 11-42T?
Sorry just new to biking and could not really understand the ratios very well
This Informations are so worthy. Thanks man.
I'm climbing Alpe D'HuZes and I have an old groupset Dura ace 7700. 53/39 - 11/27 - Can I use my current levers with a 10 speed ultegra mid cage and an 11-36 cassette to improve my gear ratios to make climbing easier? I would have to use a 10 speed cassette and get a new chain if this will work. Another question is will a 10 speed chain work on my 7700 9 speed cranks or will I need to change the front cranks as well?
Dan Reilly A 10s chain should work on a 9s. I’ve done it many times.
The derailleur May rub on the big cog in back. You can if you buy a road link from wolf tooth. I have one on my 11s Med cage ultegra di2 derailleur running a 1x11, 11-40 cassette.
I don’t know if the cage has enough capacity. You may have to look it up. Capacity = (large chainring - small chainring) + (large cog - small cog)
A new chain should be required (longer)
Hey, nice video! Do you know if is it possible to match a Sora R3030 sti with an Alivio M4000 rear/front derailleurs? Thanks! I think they have been launched after your video, not sure if something has changed on them...
Question..Think the Shimano M361 Hybrid Crankset I have would be compatible with 9 speed? I use a deore 9 speed rear and I wanna upgrade the cassette, shifters, but curious if the crank set I have will work
i'm confident it will work yes.
can roadbike 105 rear derailleur with 10spd cassette works on deore 10spd shifter?
Can I use Shimano SLX 10 speed 11-36T with Shimano Claris crankset 50-39-30T?
Hi John, I have a Ultegra RD 10 speed and a SLX M610 10 speed shifter does it work? Is the SLX shifter also work with Deore RD M592 9 speed? thanks a lot.
no.
and maybe, i'm not sure.
Brilliant explanations, great video!
question : hello, can we use a shimano acera 6 speed mtb derailleur (big clevis) with a shimano 105 style 6 speed road bike lever. according to your very beautiful report I have the impression that yes but I can be wrong not being of English language
thank you in advance !
merci d'avance !
So, what road shifters work with an older Shimano MTB 3x7 setup?
Great stuff! I have a 3x8 gears and I want to know if a 10/11 speed RD will work even if my shifter and cogs are 8 speed? Thanks
Fantastic info - Thanks soooo much!!
Hi...Was thinking of converting my Shimano A050 shifters that are on top of drop bars to brifters (break/shifter together). Is this possible. Do I need to change the rear derailleur as well (TZ050, direction type)?
Also, if I decide to stay with what I have, can I put the A050 shifters on 31.8 drop bars?
Jim Torres no, no need to change them as long as the speed is the same (7/8) to ensure chain compatibility with the rear derailleur. Same ccs or pull ratios. I’ve definitely seen the A050 shifters on a lower mode bike, and on an upper model with the Tourney Brifters and exactly the same front and rear derailleurs.
@@johnthebikeguy Thanks for that John!!!!!
Hi again...was looking around and found some shifters and wanted to make sure with you before buying. Will this work: SHIMAN0 Tourney ST-A070 Road STI Shifters Levers Shift + Brake Lever 2 x 7 Speed Left / Right / Pair.
I have a 21 speed road bike with the shifters mention preciously...
I have 10 speed shifter shimano (no type name on it) pair it with 10 speed casette/sprocket.
And i use 9 speed sora RD. And its not working good. Than as my mec said to change the RD to 10 speed ..I than bought tiagra 10 speed RD. Install it and it became worst. Im taking it back to Sora RD 9 speed. Anyone know whats wrong?
Shimano has been weird with their 10s road stuff since I’ve made the video. Tiagra was 9s and less when I made the video. You basically need to find older 105, ultegra, dura ace 10s components now to be compatible. I’m not sure about their shifters lacking a name with 10s. If you’re unsure about shimano road hierarchy, it’s tourney, Claris, Sora, Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, and Dura Ace at the top.
But Tiagra is definitely different in 10s and won’t work with anything other than 10s Tiagra. It’s it’s own thing now. You need to obtain higher models that were 10 speed when Tiagra was less than 10. The upper models moved up, Tiagra moved to 10, and things went downhill as far as compatibility goes.
I’m guessing that your old shifter was compatible, but had other issues like a bent derailleur hanger, corroded cables, or a bad shifting mechanism that were causing the issue beyond compatibility. A lot of times when an old shifter was working well, then didn’t, it’s 95% chance of cables or a bent hanger. Shifters sorta wear out, but it’s not terribly common unless it gets physically damaged.