Westside Gunn grew as an artist and his fans won't forgive him: "And Then You Pray For Me" review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- The Caravaggio of Rap? What more could we want?
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Literally found your channel an hour ago. Being a middle aged white guy frustrated with my friends in ability to broaden their musical pallet in the last 30 years, I felt an immediate kinship with you. LOL.
Love this video on the new Westside album.
The Caravaggio tie in.
Everything.
Instant sub.
Looking forward to taking this journey with you.
Welcome!
AVAA
I loved the video, and I think it is great that wsg tries new things and develops his sound. I just wanted to mention that you said that the tap dancing was thanks to Kendrick Lamar, but Cartier Williams (the tap dancer) was featured on the outro of Pray for Paris, so wsg had tap dancing on his album two years before Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers dropped.
Went to find this comment immediately
If people didn’t grow up in that Dj drama, Trap-A-Holics rawwww mixtape days they’ll never understand what vibe his trying to portray in this album
Facts. It’s sounds like a high quality street mixtape.
i did and i get what he was going for, i still just think the few classic griselda boom bap / drumless beats on there are the best parts of the album. griselda crew drops so frequently though that whatever who cares that i didn't like this one.
it isnt really about that, its the fact that he just cant flow on trap beats and the selection of trap beats were ass too.
@@stijn8588 You sleeping son. The project is hard.
@@DarrellRJr nah the trap is extremely poorly executed. Its like 50/50 for me on this album which makes it a pretty mediocre album overall. Would’ve been an amazing album if he narrowed it down to 11 tracks and minimalized the ass trap beats by miguel the plug
The tap-dancer was on Pray for Paris too! He was tap-dancing at one of Virgil's shows
Cartier Williams!
Why does experimenting and evolving mean rapping on trap beats? Many rapperes experiment and evolve but they dont rap on trap or go mainstream. Roc Marciano experimented and evolved when he did Rosebuds Revenge. Mach-Hommy plays with different flows and sounds all the time. MF DOOM was playing around with different sounds b4 he passed. On the contrary Sean Price stayed content in the same box but reinvented himself after the Heltah Skeltah / Boot Camp wave. All had and have amazing careers. I just dont get why using beats that are not even good trap beats mean experimenting or evolving. Plus his whole shtick was using beats that most rappers left alone to gain better success. Yet he gained success. I dont hate this album just more confused and kinda disappointed. Still a good 6-8 songs on here i can make a traditional Griselda playlist with so its not a disaster.
furthermore DOOM and Marciano don't have mediocre albums like this or peace flygod in their discography, I can't understand how this stuff can be called experimental, even more difficult to understand why criticism is mistaken for hate
@@Kabullo76because most of y’all aren’t artists and you don’t understand your “criticism” comes from your own personal taste as a casual consumer. An artist is gonna consume with patience and understanding of the process of creating art. Art isn’t meant to satisfy everyone, only those who understand. If you don’t just move on. This goes for any aspect of art btw not just music.
@@maxwellsamuel3255 this album is not "art", it's mainstream s/hit, deal with it
@@maxwellsamuel3255coping so hard on the fact that Gunn made one of the most mid projects of the year
@@rdk9773 ☝☝☝
Pretty good review overall, I feel the need to point out that WSG used Cartier Williams' tapdancing sample BEFORE Kendrick tho, on Pray For Paris (which was really just ANOTHER Virgil Abloh sample/reference/layer), but YEAH YEAH OUI OUI
I actually liked this album a lot. On the first listen, I was with the majority of the consensus that the trap sound didn’t flow and make sense with his sound. I was expecting his usual sound and was let down. After watching his interview with Anthony Fantano, I’ve appreciated this album that much more and understood what he was going for/ the vision. The new sounds are alien to the average Griselda fan/ Westside fan, and I was one of them. Bringing back that early 2000 trap sound was unexpected and took most by surprise, but I genuinely like it. That’s not to say the album doesn’t have any lows, that Ty dolla sign song and 1989 are atrocious and unlistenable, but by understanding how Westside wanted to try and bring back an old sound with old artists like Jeezy I definitely dig it
I agree with you on 1989 but chloe goes hard imo
Chloe is hard I fw that one
i’m really enjoying the new one, not mad that he tried something a bit different. I don’t believe it’s gonna be his last album tho.
Honestly, it seems like people were enjoying the album, at least on TH-cam.
@@hazyworld8626 i’ve seen mixed reactions, particularly about ‘westside on trap beats’, hopefully people give it a few more spins.
I think he said he had an album with Madlib ready to go on his last interview with Fantano yesterday
“Last full length album” He said it won’t stop him from dropping a 6-7 song record with Alchemist or Madlib but I feel we’ll only see Mixtapes
Probably last studio album but hopefully drops some mixtapes
appreciate the review AVAA
also that verse by rome streetz made me seek out more; highly recommend noise kandy 5
Im actually pretty surprised that folks aren’t really clicking with this album that strongly
It’s definitely different, but I think there are only a couple of misses on this
a couple of misses? 😂
half the album are misses for me, and some of em are painful to listen to
The album was mostly garbage. Tracks like LL BOOL GUNN wont stand the test of time
I'm not against the idea of West experimenting with different sounds, but it should not come at the cost of his rapping abillities. A lot of stuff this year showed that you can progress without sounding dated or out of place on new styles, but this wasn't it sadly
AVAA
The album is a Solid 7-7.5 for me. I was one of the ones who were able to buy both CD and the Galaxy Variant of the Vinyl, the website crashed on the 4th, but after listening the record, I cancelled the order (who In the right mind would cancel a Daupe purchase??) but it was not out of my disdain for album but imo, CD is the best way to Listen to this record.
The album is an evolution for Westside while being a Pastiche for 06-12 era Trap music with hints of Modern trap (Tay Keith & Miguel - Not the MVP that’s for sure).
He’s been successful in getting OG trap aesthetics down to the point the audio fidelity of Trap songs sounding like Cheap MP3 downloaded of Datpiff.
The people who inspired this album aren’t the ones who put out Vinyl themselves, because of resources & it was about flooding the streets with music at the fastest rate possible.
My Qualms with record is not Trap Beats or Gunn’s delivery but they are generic especially Ultra Grizelda, SUPER DISAPPOINTING, EST GEE track disappointing. Jalen Rose - love the verses, but the beat is too skeletal. Mr. Everything, Freddy Js & JD Wrist are probably the best in Trap Lane, even DunHill.
2nd the pacing of the record. My fav rapper - Conway, was obviously on Anesthesia, which reflected because in both MamaPrimeTime & Kostos, the delivery was Monotonous and Kostos verse was way too long, only flow switches no switch in inflection.
I’m a huge Trap-a-holics fan, because I’m a Huge Lil B fan, probably the most influential figure in Rap post 2010, next to Drake, but I don’t wish to use my Hi-Fi Setup to listen, “Damn Son, Where You Find this”.
THIS IS A MIXTAPE WRAPPED IN HERMES. Fav tracks - Chloe, Mr Everything, The Revenge of Flips Leg, Kitchen Lights, Chop Suey in Selfridges and couple more.
Sorry for the long comment.
AVAA not Prof saying calling Goku “Dragonballs” and “saiyan” (mispronouncing saiyan at that)😭 much love tho prof Skye!!
I started dying of laughter when you quoted that Reddit post because that was probably my favorite post on that subreddit 😂
Due remember, said Tap dancer The incomparable Cartier A Williams was on “Pray for Paris” which dropped before Mr Morale . I enjoy your channel professor hip hop nerds masterclass
avaa, unfortunately I can’t re scubscribe 137 times but if a timber timbre review pops up I’ll become a patron 137 more times
Like others have mentioned, I feel trap beats although maybe new (ish) for Gunn, still feels like a step back. It was the drunken often beat-less avant-garde take on boom bap that made us all pay attention in the first place as it rose above the typical irritating high hat soaked trap that I was personally sick of hearing. This album is what it is, it has some gems and some generic stuff that doesn’t really do anything for me. What I’d love to see, is Gunn lean heavy into the “art” and go way more experimental and really push the envelope of what could be considered hip hop. I wanted to love this album but I felt short changed, I think he’s capable of soo much more and I hope his next project is truly a piece of art! I think your comments are correct, one not even “bad” album doesn’t cancel out all the gems he’s given us. I just hope if he’s looking for a new direction, that trap isn’t the way he’s heading.
westside did the tapdancing before Kendrick in pray for paris, which I think we did again on this again since pray for me. just geniuss afff
This comment section is literally some guy saying "yeah I don't like the album" and then someone replying "well, then you didn't understand it"
I love trap music, don’t get me wrong, but WSG is not built for it. It’s like he is rapping “behind” the beats. Nothing wrong with experimenting but it doesn’t always mean it will be good.
I think that's amplified when he's on cuts with people like Denzel Curry, who has been rapping over trap beats for his entire career. I don't knock Gunn for the new flow but I just feels... Clunky? Unpolished? I want to like it and lock into the vibe but it's just not clicking. Like it's Gunn, the lyrics are the lyrics and they haven't changed much, but this new flow on the trap cuts isn't sitting right with me overall.
@@Myiic Simply put, he isn’t built for it
@@maxs2480 B-Side Rap Reviews had a reaction today and I think he put it elegantly. "If you know that clip of Patrick Ewing coaching at Georgetown and he's all like "One footed hop jumpers!? Do you practice that shot?!" I think that sums it up"
whenever somebody criticizes this album, they are instantly labeled as a hater for not letting Westside Gunn experiment and grow. i LOVE when artists experiment, but only when its done right (Utopia, Manger on McNichols, let’s start here). however, let’s look at this for what it is- a trap record. westside gunn’s usual flow just sounds awkward over trap drums. b-side reviews said it best- all of the trap beats on this sounds like they were plucked off of a 2013 beatstars account for 50$, and the features underperform a LOT. I think there were some trap cuts that were done really well, like Kostas or Jalen Rose, but JD Wrist just sounds almost goofy. I really hope we can get a return to form from WSG.
There WAS no Mr. Green in Reservoir Dogs! AVAA!
Wow. These videos. I feel like I learn so much from you, thank you so much. AVAA
Would prefer he went all in the trap sonics versus having some of his familiar beats spread across the album to make a bigger statement.
AVAA
I think it’s also interesting to look at the art. On pray for paris it’s a heroic painting of david and goliath. with westside gunn being david and goliath’s head being the grimey boom bap music that he usually presents to us. And with ATYPFM we have a painting of jesus dying which i take as him saying that the grimey beats have to die for something new to rise. A death of the old sound to let some new artistic endeavors rise.
Edit: wrote this comment 7 minutes into the video. thank u for an even better explanation of the art on the cover!!!!!
Twice today I heard someone mention the game dark castle and I'd never heard of it before today
excited to watch this one! pls pls pls review the new MIKE album Burning Desire professor! Feel like you’d enjoy it!
Westside became my favorite of the griselda over time. I think it's bc he reminds me a lot of Raphael from tmnt the movie (1990)
I honestly love this album. Something about it clicks for me. Like the uniqueness of it. Oh and AVAA
I think the tap dancing part at the end of primetime may have been a callback to LE Djoliba; the closer from Pray for Paris. AVAA
AVAA. There's no song that I don't like to some extent on the album. I'm not a huge fan of all of them but I appreciate the ideas. Many of the trap beats, with the added DJ Drama and Trapaholics shouts, give the songs an old mixtape feel. Not as clean as what it sounds like today. There's something Griselda about them. Also the song with Denzel Curry takes the sound back to how Denzel sounded when he originally blew up (2014-15).
Edit: You gotta listen to Chloe! It's pretty funny.
Hey skye. AVAA--Big fan of your videos. I would love it if you could cover the new MIKE album "Burning Desire". MIKE as you know is a frequent Earl Sweatshirt collaborator and I really believe his newest project is one of the most meaningful albums of this year. Thank you for the always amazing content ❤
Def wasn’t his best album but he tried something new which I can appreciate, stil had some bangers like KITCHEN LIGHTS, Mamas PrimeTime, Revenge of flips leg, House of GLORY, Suicide in Selfridges, and Jalen Rose
It's better to be creative and to make something that not everyone will love than it is to be safe and generic
Avaa! Prof at it again!!
i love trap and my hiphop journey started with trap. its not about wanting the same thing from him over and over again. i just thought it was just really poor trap and not executed good at all. if i want to hear good trap to listen to i have a lot of artists i can go and listen to and enjoy it way more.
Westside Gunn had tap dancing on his Pray For Paris album (that obv came out before MM&TBS) so I don’t think Kendrick was the innovator in that. Ofc other rappers might’ve used it way before🤷🏻♂️
Whether right or wrong, ridiculous or not, opinions are opinions. Regardless, a fan has the full right to express any opinion they want about a product. The only unacceptable thing is to attack the artists personally. WSG, in his interview with Fantano, tried to shame people by saying they are not surrounded by beautiful ladies and that they said to him that the album is fire. An artist who gets mad over fans' reactions and calls fans who criticize him "fake fans," I have not a single bit of respect for him. Many fans are not against trap beats, but criticize his choice of trap beats or how he sounds on them. Also, why is the first thing a rapper thinks of when trying new things, trap beats or mainstream sounds? There are a lot more types of productions and flows that can be explored. I see many people finding it disrespectful to say some art is trash, but I disagree. It just means that it's something not wanted and should be thrown away.
IF ANYONE SEE THIS... 1. The trap songs that he made were to pay homage to that era of rap( watch his recent interview with fantano)...2. The whole albulm isnt trash just because of the trap tracks... 3. As a fan... He has his reasons for making those tracks and have given us enough bangers before... Yet we are so greedy about having everything we want and never let him do a couple of tracks out of the illest albulms he has put out in the past 😅 ...
Also.. my favorite tracks
:Kitchen lights/ Babylon/ 2x/ and then you pray for me/ Mama's primetime... Personal favorite: Babylon🙏
JID 🔛🔝and Zel-Tron
🕊🪽God❤
Professor I have a correction! I’m shocked no one has said this yet. Westside Gunn was the first person to do the tap dancing thing. Le Djoliba off of pray for Paris ended the album by saying “tap dancing on the stove” and then the most fire tap dancing sequence ever. So yeah, not Kendrick influenced, but an homage to his earlier work
Tay Keith really killed it on this album.
but yeah... I feel this like a transition phase... Westside knows the recipe's gettin older... he's actually taking charge of that just in time... which may feel rushy w the overly explicit & almost thoughtless shit... we'll see if the takes the good criticism & level up his game for the next one
AVAA, Professor
I stopped listening halfway through the album. It was kind of hard to listen to, even though I love Westside Gunn, especially for his voice and delivery. But I will give it another chance and listen, because I believe there are good things on the album. JID is too good, some of the beats are some of the best i've heard in a long time.
I would love to hear your review of Yelawolf and any of his albums. He hasn't released anything new for several years, Ghetto Cowboy and Mud are the latest his solo albums. I really like the direction he took combining country style with rap. I would like to see your opinion about his music.
I recommend
Konrad Brzos - Zamach Stanu
a Polish Undergroun-rapper who got himself a Benny the Butcher feature on this 8 track album/ep
JD wrist was my favorite track lol it was the only genuinely experimental song on the project
Love those Ice-t lyrics
Guess who controls your destiny, fans
But you diss 'em 'cause you think you're a star
That attitude is rude, you won't get far
'Cause they'll turn on you quick, you'll drop like a brick
Skye will get it
not at all
I love this album for different reasons. 1) Stove God Cooks didn’t miss as usual!! 2) Estee Nack different flow on “JD Wrist” top Notch. 3) Collaborators on the album (Boldy, Curry, Dolla Sign, etc) all delivered. This album was meant to be either a Yay or Nay, NOT meh!!
Yea it’s not growing as an artist that’s a problem it’s conforming as an artist that’s a problem.
AVAA, Professor
pls check out the new Ethan P Flynn record he has collabed with BCNR on a tune called Television Show and he also worked with FKA twigs, i think youll enjoy his album its called Abandon All Hope
AVAA thanks Skye
WSG had the tap dancing before Kendrick. Tay Keith is from Memphis, not Atlanta.
That comment was clown shoes. Beat Butcha is insanely versatile as is Laflare but Beat Butcha has r&b joints, trap-like joints, emotional conscious sounding shit.. Griselda fans are tough to love.. believe me, as a Griselda fan I know.
Griselda Fans are two things....Some of the coolest motherfuckers you wanna meet, or straight Bozos....so is life lol
Wsg already had tap dancing in LE djoliba though
is avaant-garde the right word?
nah, it's just trash
I’ve tried over and over to listen to this album and give it a fair try. Meaning I’ve tried and tried to like this album. It just doesn’t resonate. I can’t get pass skipping through songs even when I try to listen to them as art. It does not sound like art. Even the boom bap beats are hard to listen too because they are not cohesive with the trap beats. In my opinion I think this album is destroyed. Why rap over trap beats? People has already done that, I don’t get it.
AVAA but Gunn has including tap dancing since the original Pray for Paris, way before Kendrick and the big steppers
AVAA. Professor, the tap dancing sample had actually been done before on LE Djoliba, in Pray For Paris. If anything, Kendrick is who was inspired by Gunn.
Cant do it
I cant front even 4 wsg
Just act like i didnt hear it
Some1 tell me y this is progression & not regression
On another note... cj fly new album piranha is 🔥
Please look into it asap
It’s a great album
Great sponsor AVAA
Carvaggio was definitely a gangster rapper
I liked Mamas, Kostas, Babylon Bis and Revenge of flips. Rest of the album felt like filler for me.
Din't get the vinyl and not buying from secondhand cause it will be way too over priced. These should be all 1 per customer, cause people still get multiple for flipping and real fans can't get one.
f that.
I think “jit” just means kid.
The album sounded awful on first listening. A mess. WSG needs to pick a producer and do an entire album with them. Obvious choice would be The Alchemist. There's V Don, Conductor Williams. Pete Rock would be good too. "And Then You Pray For Me" is all over the place. I can't listen to that again. Too much hard work & who's got the damn time!?
The florida slang word "jit" isn't a class thing, it simply refers to any child or young person, but usually carries the connotation of a punk/brat who tries to act smart/cool/tough. It's also originally prison slang and pretty widely used by white floridians, not exclusive to african americans, but that might just be due to the popularity of florida rap disseminating the word into communities that wouldn't have used it before.
Let us cease to beat around the bush. This is a terrible installment of the "Pray For" series. If you remove all the trap songs, you have an album worth naming "Pray For". He isn't growing, he's lost his damn mind. It isn't anger.....it's just a bad album. And it's sad that folks will take 45 minutes trying to be nice......it's not good.....plain and simple. This, plus Zombie feels like a Griselda demise.
No Mr. Green is Reservoir Dogs
AVAA my brother
I love this album. Everything ain't for everybody.
griselda fans are big mad! i appreciate the risk he took. the trap beats are all great which isnt surprising given he has the best ear for production of any rapper right now. his flows have mixed results for me, but enough of the trap songs pan out that i'm not bothered. and the boom bap/drumless shit goes hard like usual. AVAA!
i couldn’t agree more with half these comments. i don’t hate trap, i don’t hate he’s doing something completely different but the way it was executed is so garbage and lackluster. album of the year my ass
Please do rome streetz noise kandy 5
Thats a perfect album thst goes "outside the box" but still being GOOD , west isnt drake and never will be , hes turning into thugnificant from boondocks , and that sucks
The only good songs are
Mamas primetime (beat butcha killed it)
Kostas (the only good tay keith beats of the 2 on thenalbum )
Suicide in Selfridges (but how dare he cut it short just for a trSh eastside flip verse)
Kitchen lights
Flygod 2x
Babylon bis
Ultra griselda (the only good migeul the 🗑 plug beats cause all of them are bad plus denzel carried tje song ) and revenge of flips legs cause conductor and rome are god.
I liked jd wrist until thebterrible nack verse , the rza beat is def terrible , daringer has been terrible and surface level and boring ever since his album with meyhem lauren and boldy saved the song, and its just sad to see him miss so hard
It was funny cause last year people said on hwh 10 he "lost his mind" 😂
I was already saying rome got the AOTY but this def solidifies it , noise kandy 5 for the win 🌻
If you want someone whose coming up , cjeck out mickey diamond
Umbrella collective is coming and has been for year
this ☝☝☝
AVAA. I feel like this is half great, half mid and I like a little of all of it. Half the boom bap is great, half is mid. Half the trap beats are great half are mid. Half the stove god songs are great half are mid. It is just too long of a project. IMHO. This is the first wsg project for me that wasn’t at least a 9/10
AVAA. Ok I’ve listened again with a more forgiving ear, and I actually like all of it a lot more than the first listen. I think this project will continue to grow on me with subsequent listens.
Idc if someone tries something new. Good music is good music. But the thing is Gunn is limited lyrically. You’ve heard one verse you e heard them all. So a lot of people come for good beats, unique song structures. This offers neither for the most part. He doesn’t have an ear for Trap Beats. All those trap beats are terrible his voice doesn’t match them and his flow can’t hang with them. That’s his fucking problem he doesn’t accept criticism and LL Bool Gunn is pure proof of that. This album is simply not good. Who cares he went trap. Just make it good. He completely missed the mark. And enough with the stove features. Dude needs to just drop an album on whatever label. Reasonable drought was 3 years ago. He could of been put out the albums needed to get out his contract and then he could be on Griselda likes he wants to be
I've read many things about this album. Experimenting this, commercial that, trying new paths....
At the end of the day and after listening to it several times (and that was kinda painful and senseless in a way!), I really think it's SIMPLY A VERY BAD ALBUM 😅.
Horrible beat selection and catastrophic art direction and "curation". Period.
Not to fond of this new presentation from Westside. Majority of the Album is fire except for a few different directors.
you're talking about Goku (;
Day 194 of Asking you to Review Achilles Come Down by Gang of Youth
grew where? this is the same scatterbrained, remedial music he's been making.
Maybe better production but unless he's making the beats, they dont count as his growth either.
the best parts of the album come from his features, also typical for Westside
Im not even going to get into why "and his fans won't forgive him" is such a loaded
and problematic title. A professor should know how fallacious that framing is....
his flow on the trap beats sounds like lil b, lets be honest here...
Anybody who dislikes this album need to see a doctor
❤❤❤
reddit review guy 🎯🎯🎯
AVAA 23:29
Actually it does sound like everything else on differennce is he is whack on trap beats. On boom bap hes good. Come on man
*Wack
I'm a huge Westside Gunn fan, but lets be honest here this album is straight trash. He can't do trap music, he just sounds garbage over these garbage dated trap beats. Its just not good. Maybe 3 songs on this project I like. Very forgettable project in my opinion.
AVAA the tap dancing is in Pray For Paris. Love this album and i think its his best
Skkrrrrrrrr
Tht album wasn't growth. It was inferior
Avaa
AVAA
Lot of haters in these comments. They was playing this album in the Billionaire Boys Club/ Icecream store on release day. Just say you don’t understand it, like Westside Pootie said.
lol, please stop, this album is terrible
@@Kabullo76if u don't get it jus say that-westside pootie
@@Handsomehandgun if you can't tell chocolate from s/hit that's not my problem, repeating like a parrot what westside pootie says doesn't change the situation, there's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy, you're a fanboy
AdAA
avaa
AVAA🫡🙌🏻
I thought he batted well over a .50 on the trap tracks. His voice gelled to varying degrees w/ the trap beats but ALL of the beats were original and well curated. His son’s beat on here is a massive improvement on his beat on 10. Great piece of art in my opinion. Not every track resonated. The ones that didn’t were more often traditional Griselda tracks (Kitchen Lights) than trap joints. Overall a great work.
If i wanted to listen to trap music id go turn on the radio. Last thing I wanna hear in the underground is trap production. Just no
I couldn't agree more, now here comes some fanboy repeating like a parrot what westside pootie says
you're denying yourself the pleasure of some amazing underground trap then
@@ThomAvella from what ive heard im not missing anything. The album sounds worse than mid to me.
@@infrared6973 not even just referring to this album
Doing something new is NOT always meaning good, u might do something new BUT IN A TRASH WAY and also u might do the same thing u do BUT IN A TRASH WAY/