The changelings were supposedly hunted down and rounded up after the Dominion war, but very highly doubt all of them were found. Especially with the rise of the True Way.
There is a star trek armada 3 mod that won Mod of the Year. It's a full conversion mod for the game Sins of a Solar Empire. Sins 2 just released and the mod team have announced they are working on Armada IV mod for the new game@@xaviermontalban717 @jetjazz05
Id say its development was coincidental regarding the defiant class. The cardassians are inherently more militant, and its not unreasonable for them to consider such a vessel, as a military focused ship and role to complement its fleet. If anything its more weird that the federation would develop and semi commission the defiant class.
You're ignoring the Borg threat. As the most advanced power, the Borg would go after the UFP first. And the Federation knew it. The Cardassians would have been somewhat lower down on the priority list.
You'd think that combat-focused small ships would be common a lot earlier in Star Trek, considering how often factions end up stretched thin trying to concentrate their big long-ranged ships in one place or having to send their big ol warships to put out spot fires. Having a single small, short ranged, heavily armed ship per inhabited system or protecting a few of them at a time would save you a lot of resources and manpower. As much as WH40k is apples-to-oranges with Trek's tech and economics, most inhabited systems have an in-system gunboat or two that's fighty enough to scrap whatever converted civilian craft pirates may be using, but inexpensive enough that you can locally supply it.
In Star Wars, most systens have planetary defense forces with ships and other military assets. Trek doesn't seem to have that, except maybe the Soyuz class.
In some ways I like how Trek focuses on large, solitary ships. It helps it feel distinct from other major scifi franchises (such as BSG's carrier-and-fighter focus, or Star Wars' WWII-style mixed fleets), and being alone most of the time emphasises the frontier exploration elements of the setting. But, you're absolutely right that it starts to break down when you go to a situation where smaller ships absolutely should exist - such as system defence and transport - and they're still not there.
@@Nalehw Oh they are there, we see three system defence ships in BoBW. Admittedly, they're up against the Borg, but it's immediately apparent that they are super old pre-runabout vessels. And larger ships do make sense in certain ways... more capable as warships, able to carry more equipment as explorers... the Excelsior was designed and built during the height of the UFP/KE cold war and lasted a century (perhaps more). They're also poster friendly and a heck of a banner to wave to welcome potential allies and stamp in the face of hostile parties... This leads to an institutional focus on the next 'bigger' thing, and the resources just aren't available for anything smaller... The intrepid was a step towards a more balanced approach, but the Nova was already flitting around before that, and the Oberth was another cold war kid that lingered longer than she had the right to, but the power differential between those smaller vessels and the mid-sized intrepid is... broad.
Upon showing the Defiant to the crew Captain Sisko did state that this vessel was going to be introduced for the war with the Borg but it was shelved "just too powerful" so it could have been during this time period that a cardassian spy copied the plans to the Defiant, as for it not be fully copied like no ablative armor or pulse weaponry this can be stated as cardassian technical limitations? LLNP 🖖
I love the idea that the Cardassians were constantly trying to one-up Starfleet, but I don't think they needed a spy to copy the plans for a vessel. Once the project was shelved by the Federation, any number of members of the design and fabrication teams could have gone to visit their home planets (with one or more being in the DMZ) only to be taken at night by Cardassian extraction units, then "interrogated" for the information. Surely not all of Starfleet has the constitution to say "there are four lights".
this was my though too, the rough blueprint of the defiant was around long enough that the cardassians could have pinched some of the details by the time the dominion war was in full swing
Exactly. Sisko was on the Defiant design team, and the five-ish years from its conception to rollout is plenty of time for the plans to have leaked through Starfleet’s notoriously poor security. For that matter some of its plans may have been deliberately leaked by Section 31 but nerfed to make sure that any copies would be inferior. Yes, leaky security. How did the Romulans know that Starfleet was running a compartmentalized black cloaking project to sufficient detail to know where the wreck was?
Ships of this and the Defiant's size are the only "fighters" that make sense in the Trek verse. Single seaters are useless in a world with shields and 360 degree capital-class weapons.
Thanks, Rick for putting on this video about the Hideki as I requested. This helps clear up the discrepancy between the two alleged classes of this vessel. I still don't like the idea of an aft-mounted heavy disruptor cannon. I suppose the Cardassians expected to do a lot of running away from their enemies! LOL!
You didn’t mention it but the Hideki class’s 3D model was kitbashed to make the Bajoran solar sailer. If you wanted to read into it, it could imply that ancient Bajorans landing on Cardassia led to Cardassians learning about space travel.
The basic consept leading to the Defiant and the Hideki Class, being the same perhaps based on a standard trasport ship. the Hideki striped back looks more like an adverage multi role 3-ish deck ship, with a clam shell bow added and a strange warp coil layout. the Defiant looks like it was origanaly was planed as a saucer then adapted for combat.
What if we assume that the Hideki was as a shuttle introduced in 2327 and after the cardassians observed or got intel on the defiant, built a larger version of the Hideki because it already had so many similarities? Does that sound reasonable for in in universe explanation? Or maybe they had already a bigger version with larger transport capacity?
2:25 Indeed, you're correct. The Obsidian Order successfully infiltrated two key departments within Starfleet-engineering and weapons development-as well as the classified facility 'Outpost X1X5' in 2369. It was Operative Nerek Tar who, in 2370, secured and delivered the unfinished plans to the Order. To my understanding, the Kideki Strike had been on the boards for only two years when intel on the Defiant class came through. Given the similarity in size, Strategic Command opted to replicate aspects of the Defiant’s weaponry and shield systems. This decision fast-tracked the Kideki’s prototype phase; while it didn’t meet all expectations, we ended up with a highly capable vessel.
6:01 As effective as Operative Nerek Tar’s acquisition was, replicating Starfleet’s shield harmonics and weapons configurations proved... challenging. The data obtained on the Defiant-class was incomplete-certain critical systems, particularly those involving shield modulation and phased weaponry, were heavily encrypted or omitted entirely. Our engineers attempted reverse engineering, but the technology transfer was not sufficient for a full reproduction. Consequently, while the Kideki-class achieved a respectable power output, we could not reach the defensive resilience Starfleet had achieved. A frustrating reminder of the complexities in adapting Federation systems for Cardassian design.
Why do we assume the Cardassians copied Starfleet's Defiant class, when it is entirely possible that Starfleet copied the Hideki class and improved upon it's weaknesses. Section 31 was operating just about everywhere during this time period, and who's to say that they discovered the Hideki, and had one of their agents within the fleet yards "submit" this as a concept.
I will say you might be right. However, the defiant was designed around the Borg modernization effort. Obsidian order likely furnished designs from intelligence gatherings.
So if the Defiant is a F-22, then the Hideki is a J-20? Also if the Klingons can claim they had the original Shakespeare, the Cardassians can claim they had the original Hideki. ^_^
Considering how few times a ship class is ever mentioned, it is possible any "Hideki" shown after the one that intercepted O'Brien was a different class. Obviously the answer is DS9 was terrible about size consistency, but there is at least an in universe way out of it. It's no where near as bad as when the same exact ship appears in different sizes.
My theory to this is that the Hideki was deliberately misclassified. Cardassians already had a habit of classifying basic freighters as military vessels, so why not use this unfortunate misunderstanding to make a small strike and patrol ship, arm it heavily, claim its just a shuttle and send it into the DMZ under that guise to give their colonists some heavy firepower. Starfleet had no equivalent ships in that weight class anyway, and outclassing it with larger ships was out of the question since Cardassians would immediately cry about it being a DMZ, how dare the Federation send a starship in! Then the Dominion war came about with the ship still in production, and like the Galor and unlike the Keldon it survives having its production line completely axed, and is forced into Dominion doctrine, operating the same way as Jem'Hadar attack ships. Which really they arent, and formation flying bites them in the rear in large fleet engagements, but here you go, they kept their Dominion overlords happy. Obviously that ended up taking Hidekis away from other roles, mostly secondary ones like policing, rear patrols, fast cargo runs and liason duties, all kinds of logistics, so they made a derivative called the Yukawa class, looks identical, but has its offensive capabilities downgraded severely so it can again be reclassified as an innocent shuttle. With the Dominion not interested in putting it into a combat role Cardassians can do whatever they want with these buggers and keep some of their military relatively independent. Then the rebellion happens and they have a fleet of fast ships at their disposal that are pretty well suited to asymmetrical warfare, undercover ops, you name it, the Yukawa can do it. With that theory I dont think the Defiant has anything to do with the Hideki, Starfleet had a tendency to overbuild their ships anyway, so the Defiant was a rare anomaly for its time (only later does Starfleet embrace smaller ships again with the Nova class and so forth), while the Cardassians tended to underbuild their ships, not having any serious equivalent to a D'Deridex or Galaxy class, but the Hideki struck gold.
the two ship scales make sense consideringthe Union is resource poor. why waste time and resources to design a whole new ship when either upscalign or low scaling is far more efficent
The cardassians did have 3 versions of the galor class, each bigger and more powerful. So why not 2 versions of the Hideki, version 1 armed transport and version 2 attack/assault ship. This is how I see it galor class 1 patrol/escort, class 2 destroyer, class 3 cruiser. With the Keldon being the heavy cruiser.
I bet that the size confusion is, in universe, the cardasians intionally designing their attack vessel to look like their shuttle to sandbag starfleet intelligence gathering efforts in a similar way to the USA irl having the "patriot" system having gone through so many internal revisions without the external casing changing that its really hard to tell what system is inside. The size difference gives the game away, but any dastardly tactic that made the attacker less likely to be recognized as hostile is totally within the cardasian MO
Honestly it's probably just the attack ship that everyone seems to design. Hell you could call it a bird of prey or war bird and not be far off, just needs some wings.
Large for size cargo capacity means being able to carry a rather large number of torpedoes. It's also agile. That suggests employment as a Destroyer. Half divisions of two upwards. That would make it a significant threat to larger vessels. My only question would be how many launcher's?
I think the similarities in design are just coincidence as the shape of the ship is clearly styled after the emblem of the Cardassian Union like its larger cousins, it wasn't a reaction to the Defiant class. Though I think production of the ship may have been stepped up in response to the threat from the Maquis, the more I think about that the more it makes sense to me as it is no match for a Defiant class but it is easily a match for the Peregrine class Federation ships the Maquis use.
"Hikeki class identity crisis"? Anyway, considering there are apparently two variants of this particular ship, is it possible that the Cardassians had been working on an earlier, but smaller version first and then scaled it up around the time the Defiant was developed as a quick catch-up?
...This isn't a Cardassian Defiant. If anything, it's an insult to the Hideki comparing it to the _overhyped go-kart._ It predates the Defiant rather significantly considering it is well known and identified in Season 1 of DS9. If anything, the Hideki is a civilian shuttle that, in times of war, can be easily turned into a chaff-level corvette.
Hm... 85 m long, 60 m wide and 120k tons??? Doesn't make sense to me. An Aircraft carrier of roughly 330 length and 40 m width (not counting the flight deck), weighs in at roughly 100k tons. So 120k tons for the Hideki sounds way too heavy for me. Maybe some 20k tons would be more reasonable.
I also wondered about these weight statistics of Star Trek ships in general. I then thought, that maybe it's because of the materials these ships are made of (Durasteel or something like this) and that these materials are denser and thus heavier.
@@balli7836 like with distances, weight, top speed etc., SciFi writers tend to have a bad sense of scale, like some ships in the Honor Harrington Books, while weign quite much, but still only had the density of "smoke" or EC Henry made a Video how "Empty" the Enterprise D is
@@enisra_bowmanYeah, but a Galaxy is SUPPOSED to be empty. You're then supposed to fill it with stuff. And I can imagine Cardassians over-armoring and over-structuring ships compared to the Federation, who have much better structural integrity technology by this point. (And just look how flimsy Mirandas and even Galaxies were when placed into heavy peer combat!)
@@DanielMWJ but not THAT Empty yes we have the massive Flight Deck in the Sauser Section that we see once (?) and the whole civilian parts but still, the ship super large and yes, as the Flaggships is suppose to host ambassatorial events and also able to evacuate colonies or star bases but still then it looks more like a Normal crusise of the RMS Queen Mary and not when it was used as Crew Ship in the second World War with the estimate 6000 "emergency capacity" The could give the Folks in "Up the Long Ladder" each quite a spacious room and did'nt had to cramp them into the one Cargo Hold and i doubt the Crew even had to share quarters since well, instead of having multiple hamlets on one Planet, each one get's it's own. good, the couldn't scale the sets up, but it often seems there is only one small Settlement on an M-Class Planet
@enisra_bowman Unless that was supposed to be the weight with no modules installed at all, meaning that all that empty space would get filled in. Just structure, hull, and primary systems.
it might be to boring but maybe they had just the same requirements on a new ship 🤷 or that they had a Bird of Prey in Mind, but like with Concorde or Tupolev-144 that may look similar on first glance but not really if you look closer: well, you can't build a Corvette that much different in size etc.
@@DanielMWJ Yeah. Maybe in the Cardassian vocabulary "Hideki(or however it is written there)" actually means "Defiant" in our language, since the Hideki class is kinda based on the Defiant.
If only the Cardassians had someone on the dock where the Defiant was stationed that had bad enough relations with the Obsidian Order for Starfleet to trust them (and use them to recover captured officers using said ship) but also was loyal enough to Cardassia that they would contact anyone they know to tell them about significant technological developments by the Federation.
Another entire starship that can be run with 5 people. If all you really need is an engineer, a CO, a pilot, and... miscellaneous/ mission specific crew, what do extra people on larger ships actually do??
Why the speculation on copying the Defiant when it’s completely consistent with the existing Cardassian design language? Look at the front of the Galor/Keldon next to the Hideki and they clearly have shared lineage without need for outside influence
Defiant shares a few design similarities with a new Cardassian vessel that was unveiled three years prior to the Defiant program. Starfleet: "Uh... they must have copied US. Obviously."
It flies forward, it's Cardassian. It flies backwards, it's Ferengi.
🤣🤣🤣
Not at that cost. lol
Food for thought 😂
Holy crap! Didn't realize that!😓
The model builders on the VFX team were probably thinking exactly that.
There is no dilemma that cannot be solved by a disciplined, Cardassian mind. That and a healthy amount of military intellectual property theft.
And outright theft of a Klingon Bird of Prey or two.
Cardassia-the CCP of the Alpha Quadrant
There is also the possibility of CHANGELINGS already being inside the UNION at this point to HELP them along.
The changelings were supposedly hunted down and rounded up after the Dominion war, but very highly doubt all of them were found. Especially with the rise of the True Way.
This was the "scout" class in Star Trek: Armada II. Dang I loved that game, played for hundreds of hours as a kid.
Same. I'd pay good money for a new installment
It can be bought digitally online. I would say where but TH-cam doesn't like that.
GOG has armada 1 and 2
@@DL-sx7yhoh, they let you say it. And I look forward to buying it.
There is a star trek armada 3 mod that won Mod of the Year. It's a full conversion mod for the game Sins of a Solar Empire. Sins 2 just released and the mod team have announced they are working on Armada IV mod for the new game@@xaviermontalban717 @jetjazz05
Id say its development was coincidental regarding the defiant class. The cardassians are inherently more militant, and its not unreasonable for them to consider such a vessel, as a military focused ship and role to complement its fleet. If anything its more weird that the federation would develop and semi commission the defiant class.
You're ignoring the Borg threat. As the most advanced power, the Borg would go after the UFP first. And the Federation knew it. The Cardassians would have been somewhat lower down on the priority list.
What makes you think it was new in DS9? First time we ever saw it the Runabout’s computer identified it immediately as far as I recall
You'd think that combat-focused small ships would be common a lot earlier in Star Trek, considering how often factions end up stretched thin trying to concentrate their big long-ranged ships in one place or having to send their big ol warships to put out spot fires. Having a single small, short ranged, heavily armed ship per inhabited system or protecting a few of them at a time would save you a lot of resources and manpower.
As much as WH40k is apples-to-oranges with Trek's tech and economics, most inhabited systems have an in-system gunboat or two that's fighty enough to scrap whatever converted civilian craft pirates may be using, but inexpensive enough that you can locally supply it.
In Star Wars, most systens have planetary defense forces with ships and other military assets. Trek doesn't seem to have that, except maybe the Soyuz class.
In some ways I like how Trek focuses on large, solitary ships. It helps it feel distinct from other major scifi franchises (such as BSG's carrier-and-fighter focus, or Star Wars' WWII-style mixed fleets), and being alone most of the time emphasises the frontier exploration elements of the setting.
But, you're absolutely right that it starts to break down when you go to a situation where smaller ships absolutely should exist - such as system defence and transport - and they're still not there.
@@Nalehw Oh they are there, we see three system defence ships in BoBW. Admittedly, they're up against the Borg, but it's immediately apparent that they are super old pre-runabout vessels. And larger ships do make sense in certain ways... more capable as warships, able to carry more equipment as explorers... the Excelsior was designed and built during the height of the UFP/KE cold war and lasted a century (perhaps more). They're also poster friendly and a heck of a banner to wave to welcome potential allies and stamp in the face of hostile parties... This leads to an institutional focus on the next 'bigger' thing, and the resources just aren't available for anything smaller... The intrepid was a step towards a more balanced approach, but the Nova was already flitting around before that, and the Oberth was another cold war kid that lingered longer than she had the right to, but the power differential between those smaller vessels and the mid-sized intrepid is... broad.
I can see a Ferengi shipwright thinking, "I love the design, but it looks like it's going backwards!"
Upon showing the Defiant to the crew Captain Sisko did state that this vessel was going to be introduced for the war with the Borg but it was shelved "just too powerful" so it could have been during this time period that a cardassian spy copied the plans to the Defiant, as for it not be fully copied like no ablative armor or pulse weaponry this can be stated as cardassian technical limitations? LLNP 🖖
Maybe a certain tailor on DS9..
I love the idea that the Cardassians were constantly trying to one-up Starfleet, but I don't think they needed a spy to copy the plans for a vessel. Once the project was shelved by the Federation, any number of members of the design and fabrication teams could have gone to visit their home planets (with one or more being in the DMZ) only to be taken at night by Cardassian extraction units, then "interrogated" for the information.
Surely not all of Starfleet has the constitution to say "there are four lights".
this was my though too, the rough blueprint of the defiant was around long enough that the cardassians could have pinched some of the details by the time the dominion war was in full swing
Exactly. Sisko was on the Defiant design team, and the five-ish years from its conception to rollout is plenty of time for the plans to have leaked through Starfleet’s notoriously poor security. For that matter some of its plans may have been deliberately leaked by Section 31 but nerfed to make sure that any copies would be inferior.
Yes, leaky security. How did the Romulans know that Starfleet was running a compartmentalized black cloaking project to sufficient detail to know where the wreck was?
@markfergerson2145 the Galaxy class was under development for 20 or so years. Why no major leaks there?
Ships of this and the Defiant's size are the only "fighters" that make sense in the Trek verse. Single seaters are useless in a world with shields and 360 degree capital-class weapons.
Thanks, Rick for putting on this video about the Hideki as I requested. This helps clear up the discrepancy between the two alleged classes of this vessel. I still don't like the idea of an aft-mounted heavy disruptor cannon. I suppose the Cardassians expected to do a lot of running away from their enemies! LOL!
I see more of the Saber than I do the Defiant.
I could definitely see that.
I see 100% Cardassian design language. It looks like a Galor/Keldon’s kid sibling, no need for outside influence.
You didn’t mention it but the Hideki class’s 3D model was kitbashed to make the Bajoran solar sailer. If you wanted to read into it, it could imply that ancient Bajorans landing on Cardassia led to Cardassians learning about space travel.
Loved these early on in DS9 Dominion War. Easy to commandeer and then use to bloat my fleet size on missions.
I always liked the Hideki class. Thanks for covering it.
but it's an earwig
@@athrunzala6919 the tail pincers aside it looks a bit more like a flying horseshoe crab to me.
@athrunzala6919 And Dominion attack ships are scarab beetles. What’s your point? 🤷♂️
@@UGNAvalon one insect is uglier than the other insect
@@athrunzala6919 Yep, and the scarabs are definitely uglier than the ~NOBLE~ and ~BADASS~ earwig. 🙃😉
Ah yes, the Earwig class.
The basic consept leading to the Defiant and the Hideki Class, being the same perhaps based on a standard trasport ship. the Hideki striped back looks more like an adverage multi role 3-ish deck ship, with a clam shell bow added and a strange warp coil layout. the Defiant looks like it was origanaly was planed as a saucer then adapted for combat.
What if we assume that the Hideki was as a shuttle introduced in 2327 and after the cardassians observed or got intel on the defiant, built a larger version of the Hideki because it already had so many similarities? Does that sound reasonable for in in universe explanation? Or maybe they had already a bigger version with larger transport capacity?
That was my immediate thought too!
Ferengi Marauder streched for inspiration lol
I never got the impression that it was comparable to a Defiant.
2:25 Indeed, you're correct. The Obsidian Order successfully infiltrated two key departments within Starfleet-engineering and weapons development-as well as the classified facility 'Outpost X1X5' in 2369. It was Operative Nerek Tar who, in 2370, secured and delivered the unfinished plans to the Order. To my understanding, the Kideki Strike had been on the boards for only two years when intel on the Defiant class came through. Given the similarity in size, Strategic Command opted to replicate aspects of the Defiant’s weaponry and shield systems. This decision fast-tracked the Kideki’s prototype phase; while it didn’t meet all expectations, we ended up with a highly capable vessel.
6:01 As effective as Operative Nerek Tar’s acquisition was, replicating Starfleet’s shield harmonics and weapons configurations proved... challenging. The data obtained on the Defiant-class was incomplete-certain critical systems, particularly those involving shield modulation and phased weaponry, were heavily encrypted or omitted entirely. Our engineers attempted reverse engineering, but the technology transfer was not sufficient for a full reproduction. Consequently, while the Kideki-class achieved a respectable power output, we could not reach the defensive resilience Starfleet had achieved. A frustrating reminder of the complexities in adapting Federation systems for Cardassian design.
Thanks Rick for another great and informative video. I'm loving them.
your Defiant at home
The Defiant is what they wished they got, the Hideki is what they actually got
We only have Dukat's say so that the Cardassians had acquired the schematics for the Defiant ... and he's such a reliable witness, after all.
All armour is ablative if it gets cooked enough.
Its allways a treat for me to see ships and Things that are rarely touched upon ❤
Tysm! I love cardassian vessel videos! :D
Why do we assume the Cardassians copied Starfleet's Defiant class, when it is entirely possible that Starfleet copied the Hideki class and improved upon it's weaknesses. Section 31 was operating just about everywhere during this time period, and who's to say that they discovered the Hideki, and had one of their agents within the fleet yards "submit" this as a concept.
I will say you might be right. However, the defiant was designed around the Borg modernization effort. Obsidian order likely furnished designs from intelligence gatherings.
So if the Defiant is a F-22, then the Hideki is a J-20?
Also if the Klingons can claim they had the original Shakespeare, the Cardassians can claim they had the original Hideki. ^_^
(points at starship) "Hideki!" -Chii, probably.
deep cut right there
Considering how few times a ship class is ever mentioned, it is possible any "Hideki" shown after the one that intercepted O'Brien was a different class. Obviously the answer is DS9 was terrible about size consistency, but there is at least an in universe way out of it. It's no where near as bad as when the same exact ship appears in different sizes.
On paper a Wonderful Hangar Pet in STO , however they are bugged and fly by having 2 cardassians get out and push.
My theory to this is that the Hideki was deliberately misclassified. Cardassians already had a habit of classifying basic freighters as military vessels, so why not use this unfortunate misunderstanding to make a small strike and patrol ship, arm it heavily, claim its just a shuttle and send it into the DMZ under that guise to give their colonists some heavy firepower. Starfleet had no equivalent ships in that weight class anyway, and outclassing it with larger ships was out of the question since Cardassians would immediately cry about it being a DMZ, how dare the Federation send a starship in!
Then the Dominion war came about with the ship still in production, and like the Galor and unlike the Keldon it survives having its production line completely axed, and is forced into Dominion doctrine, operating the same way as Jem'Hadar attack ships. Which really they arent, and formation flying bites them in the rear in large fleet engagements, but here you go, they kept their Dominion overlords happy.
Obviously that ended up taking Hidekis away from other roles, mostly secondary ones like policing, rear patrols, fast cargo runs and liason duties, all kinds of logistics, so they made a derivative called the Yukawa class, looks identical, but has its offensive capabilities downgraded severely so it can again be reclassified as an innocent shuttle. With the Dominion not interested in putting it into a combat role Cardassians can do whatever they want with these buggers and keep some of their military relatively independent. Then the rebellion happens and they have a fleet of fast ships at their disposal that are pretty well suited to asymmetrical warfare, undercover ops, you name it, the Yukawa can do it.
With that theory I dont think the Defiant has anything to do with the Hideki, Starfleet had a tendency to overbuild their ships anyway, so the Defiant was a rare anomaly for its time (only later does Starfleet embrace smaller ships again with the Nova class and so forth), while the Cardassians tended to underbuild their ships, not having any serious equivalent to a D'Deridex or Galaxy class, but the Hideki struck gold.
I bet they were built to counter Mirandas, freeing up Galors to aid Keldons with larger, newer vessels!
the two ship scales make sense consideringthe Union is resource poor. why waste time and resources to design a whole new ship when either upscalign or low scaling is far more efficent
I keep forgetting the Hideki even exists. They stuffed Galar warships everywhere.
It looks like a Triop or Tadpole Shrimp.
I like to imagine there's a real rager of a party going on behind that one window.
The cardassians did have 3 versions of the galor class, each bigger and more powerful. So why not 2 versions of the Hideki, version 1 armed transport and version 2 attack/assault ship. This is how I see it galor class 1 patrol/escort, class 2 destroyer, class 3 cruiser. With the Keldon being the heavy cruiser.
I bet that the size confusion is, in universe, the cardasians intionally designing their attack vessel to look like their shuttle to sandbag starfleet intelligence gathering efforts in a similar way to the USA irl having the "patriot" system having gone through so many internal revisions without the external casing changing that its really hard to tell what system is inside. The size difference gives the game away, but any dastardly tactic that made the attacker less likely to be recognized as hostile is totally within the cardasian MO
The ship looks like a defiant with a few extra parts.
Thank you Rick for yet another informative video
Honestly it's probably just the attack ship that everyone seems to design. Hell you could call it a bird of prey or war bird and not be far off, just needs some wings.
Perhaps the Spacial Anomaly that shrunk the runabout USS Rubicon [DS9: One Little Ship] is a relatively common occurrence in the Badlands?
My god they didn’t even try to hide it
Large for size cargo capacity means being able to carry a rather large number of torpedoes. It's also agile.
That suggests employment as a Destroyer. Half divisions of two upwards. That would make it a significant threat to larger vessels. My only question would be how many launcher's?
I think the similarities in design are just coincidence as the shape of the ship is clearly styled after the emblem of the Cardassian Union like its larger cousins, it wasn't a reaction to the Defiant class. Though I think production of the ship may have been stepped up in response to the threat from the Maquis, the more I think about that the more it makes sense to me as it is no match for a Defiant class but it is easily a match for the Peregrine class Federation ships the Maquis use.
"designed by jim martin..." that's a peculiar looking cardassian 🧐
I realize this isn't about ships, but could you do a video about the normally not allowed augments?
Edit: And the Eugenic Wars?
You should really do a video on the Hutet battleship.
Right off the bat, SO MUCH ORANGE.
I choose to believe the Cardassians are secretly fans of 20th century Earth pop star Hideki Saijo.
Mat'Ha Raptor next, please.
dont forget the defiant class may have been indevelopement years before we saw her, so a leak is still on the table.
...and yet it looks kinda like a Ferengi ship flying in reverse
Honestly, I think I like it.
It looks like a back to front defiant with the bulky warp egines sawn off and some bits tacked on the outside 🤔
This ship really just seems like a redress of the Defiant model. They created a lot of alien ships using that model.
"Hikeki class identity crisis"? Anyway, considering there are apparently two variants of this particular ship, is it possible that the Cardassians had been working on an earlier, but smaller version first and then scaled it up around the time the Defiant was developed as a quick catch-up?
Cardassians with a Defiant class. Why does that scare the crap out of me? 🤔
Temu Defiant
The back end looks like a giant claw.
Maybe Ferengi should steal one and reverse engineering it 😂
A more infamous hideki of the time period would have been Hideki Tojo
The Hideki was designed for the greater glory of Cardassia.
Anyone else thinking of Seska?
I wonder when they're gonna come up with the earwig class, lmao
Crashed into the ds9 shields during the dominion attack on the station
I see it as a backwards facing ferengi ship.
...This isn't a Cardassian Defiant. If anything, it's an insult to the Hideki comparing it to the _overhyped go-kart._
It predates the Defiant rather significantly considering it is well known and identified in Season 1 of DS9.
If anything, the Hideki is a civilian shuttle that, in times of war, can be easily turned into a chaff-level corvette.
Hm... 85 m long, 60 m wide and 120k tons??? Doesn't make sense to me. An Aircraft carrier of roughly 330 length and 40 m width (not counting the flight deck), weighs in at roughly 100k tons. So 120k tons for the Hideki sounds way too heavy for me. Maybe some 20k tons would be more reasonable.
I also wondered about these weight statistics of Star Trek ships in general. I then thought, that maybe it's because of the materials these ships are made of (Durasteel or something like this) and that these materials are denser and thus heavier.
@@balli7836 like with distances, weight, top speed etc., SciFi writers tend to have a bad sense of scale, like some ships in the Honor Harrington Books, while weign quite much, but still only had the density of "smoke" or EC Henry made a Video how "Empty" the Enterprise D is
@@enisra_bowmanYeah, but a Galaxy is SUPPOSED to be empty. You're then supposed to fill it with stuff. And I can imagine Cardassians over-armoring and over-structuring ships compared to the Federation, who have much better structural integrity technology by this point. (And just look how flimsy Mirandas and even Galaxies were when placed into heavy peer combat!)
@@DanielMWJ but not THAT Empty
yes we have the massive Flight Deck in the Sauser Section that we see once (?) and the whole civilian parts but still, the ship super large and yes, as the Flaggships is suppose to host ambassatorial events and also able to evacuate colonies or star bases but still then it looks more like a Normal crusise of the RMS Queen Mary and not when it was used as Crew Ship in the second World War with the estimate 6000 "emergency capacity"
The could give the Folks in "Up the Long Ladder" each quite a spacious room and did'nt had to cramp them into the one Cargo Hold and i doubt the Crew even had to share quarters since well, instead of having multiple hamlets on one Planet, each one get's it's own. good, the couldn't scale the sets up, but it often seems there is only one small Settlement on an M-Class Planet
@enisra_bowman Unless that was supposed to be the weight with no modules installed at all, meaning that all that empty space would get filled in. Just structure, hull, and primary systems.
it might be to boring but maybe they had just the same requirements on a new ship 🤷
or that they had a Bird of Prey in Mind, but like with Concorde or Tupolev-144 that may look similar on first glance but not really if you look closer: well, you can't build a Corvette that much different in size etc.
Are we sure the class name isn't a Starfleet designation?
Might be, It's quite strange to see a Cardassian ships having a Japanese name.
@@GiladPellaeon-ym2zwI mean, we don't exactly have a glossary of Cardassian terms.
@@DanielMWJ Yeah. Maybe in the Cardassian vocabulary "Hideki(or however it is written there)" actually means "Defiant" in our language, since the Hideki class is kinda based on the Defiant.
SPACE!!!
It's a sunfish grafted to a earwig
If only the Cardassians had someone on the dock where the Defiant was stationed that had bad enough relations with the Obsidian Order for Starfleet to trust them (and use them to recover captured officers using said ship) but also was loyal enough to Cardassia that they would contact anyone they know to tell them about significant technological developments by the Federation.
I wonder if the Dominium usurped the design to make it a quick attack/support ship likening it to the Gem'Hadar attack ships.
Another entire starship that can be run with 5 people. If all you really need is an engineer, a CO, a pilot, and... miscellaneous/ mission specific crew, what do extra people on larger ships actually do??
DamCon. Shifts. Non-essential scientific/legal/diplomatic work.
Chin....Obsidian order maybe?
Neat
Why the speculation on copying the Defiant when it’s completely consistent with the existing Cardassian design language? Look at the front of the Galor/Keldon next to the Hideki and they clearly have shared lineage without need for outside influence
I dont see how the is like a defiant, its firepower isnt exceptional, its armour isnt anything. While nimble it is no defiant.
Dollar store Defiant. The Defiant we have at home.
Why the hell hasn't STO made this ship available?
SCIENCE!!!
As beautiful as sto is I hope we get a new game that is better
🤨 Ich versteh den Sinn der Kanone im Heck noch nicht ganz. Warum keine Waffe im Bug.
Anyone they're fighting that is a real danger is probably chasing them as they flee at maximum speed. 😂
🤘😄🤘
Hideki Tojo class yikes
1
To bad it sucked ass in action though.
Hey, it could totally take on a Miranda and maybe not die!
First
please stop using the chinese spy meme song, it's unsettling
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Can you share a link or something to what you mean?
Defiant shares a few design similarities with a new Cardassian vessel that was unveiled three years prior to the Defiant program.
Starfleet: "Uh... they must have copied US. Obviously."
Made with real -chineseium- Cardasian know-how....
Actually i would compare the cardys to a more aggressive Russian federation
The Chinese would be in between Romuluns and Feranginar